Graphic Journalism
March 10, 2015 1:57 PM Subscribe
The phone rang. It was my college rapist. (TW) "a comic account of my friend’s sexual assault in college. 33 years after the incident, she received a phone call from her assailant."
Political cartoonist Jen Sorensen is working as a Comics Editor for Graphic Culture on Fusion, a new media company from ABC and Univision.
previously.
Political cartoonist Jen Sorensen is working as a Comics Editor for Graphic Culture on Fusion, a new media company from ABC and Univision.
previously.
That was nauseating.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:10 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:10 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I cannot even fathom that he would call her up! And masturbate on the phone with her! 33 years later! WTF!
People suck.
posted by suelac at 2:14 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
People suck.
posted by suelac at 2:14 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
OK, I thought for sure this was going to be about the recent weird Bill Cosby PR stunt.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:16 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:16 PM on March 10, 2015
Jesus, what an awful person. I hope this leads to consequences.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:16 PM on March 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:16 PM on March 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
Link's down for me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:17 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:17 PM on March 10, 2015
Thank you for finding and posting this. I've always enjoyed Jen Sorenson's work and this one needed to be done. I hope it gets Tumblrized
posted by infini at 2:18 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by infini at 2:18 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Lost for words here. Wish she would name this piece of filth, although I know she has good reasons for not doing so.
posted by longdaysjourney at 2:21 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by longdaysjourney at 2:21 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ugh. Ya it would be nice to out him. Aside from I suppose slander, why wouldn't she? I'm not sure I can relate to a non vengence mindset....
posted by chasles at 2:24 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by chasles at 2:24 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Carl is everywhere. It's really unfortunate, but I know many women who have a Carl. And he's always "a highly respected leader in his field."
Thanks for posting this.
posted by sockermom at 2:26 PM on March 10, 2015 [28 favorites]
Thanks for posting this.
posted by sockermom at 2:26 PM on March 10, 2015 [28 favorites]
"Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient."
In that phone call, Carl exhibited sexual behavior to which Alison did not consent. That is sexual assault. That was his second act of sexual assault against her.
But HA! Good luck convincing any form of legal authority of that. Might as well just get on with her life; not a damn thing she can do about it. No recourse, except to ask a friend to draw a comic.
The assailants pretty much always win, which is why they keep doing it, which is why we need to keep talking about it, and why we need to make the laws fit the crime.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:26 PM on March 10, 2015 [30 favorites]
In that phone call, Carl exhibited sexual behavior to which Alison did not consent. That is sexual assault. That was his second act of sexual assault against her.
But HA! Good luck convincing any form of legal authority of that. Might as well just get on with her life; not a damn thing she can do about it. No recourse, except to ask a friend to draw a comic.
The assailants pretty much always win, which is why they keep doing it, which is why we need to keep talking about it, and why we need to make the laws fit the crime.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:26 PM on March 10, 2015 [30 favorites]
Also, I'm hoping no one chimes in with "why didn't she just hang up?" That's equivalent to "why didn't she fight back" or "why didn't she scream for help" or "why didn't she immediately go to the police" -- in other words, "it was her fault for letting it happen." (Again, in this case.)
posted by mudpuppie at 2:31 PM on March 10, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 2:31 PM on March 10, 2015 [21 favorites]
Oh, a "comic" account, not a "comical" account.
Good on the both of them (the illustrator and the friend), this is a classy, informative way of handling this stuff.
posted by JauntyFedora at 2:36 PM on March 10, 2015
Good on the both of them (the illustrator and the friend), this is a classy, informative way of handling this stuff.
posted by JauntyFedora at 2:36 PM on March 10, 2015
I believe this entirely. But I am curious about how those guys learnt to do the spiking. There must be some evidence, some communication. As the protagonist in the story says, it wasn't like marihuana or alcohol (I haven't tried other drugs).
I had a "friend" from that generation who most certainly drugged and raped me a few years ago. He was an old man, and I was a very mature woman. This is not only about vulnerable young women. And yes, he kept communicating.
Like in the "comic", I was mostly really, really confused afterwards. I went to his funeral and was planning to write an obituary. And then the whole Cosby case came out and I suddenly began thinking about what had happened.
posted by mumimor at 2:38 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
I had a "friend" from that generation who most certainly drugged and raped me a few years ago. He was an old man, and I was a very mature woman. This is not only about vulnerable young women. And yes, he kept communicating.
Like in the "comic", I was mostly really, really confused afterwards. I went to his funeral and was planning to write an obituary. And then the whole Cosby case came out and I suddenly began thinking about what had happened.
posted by mumimor at 2:38 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
Just filled with rage. Got nothing in my head but murder-thoughts.
I am glad, truly, to see these stories get out. But so so angry at the depth of everyday evil they reveal. I miss my ignorance of that sometimes. Similar to how I feel about the stories of police violence (and other violence) minority folks are telling these days, that are finally getting some notice.
Glad they are finally getting heard. So angry and heartbroken to hear them.
posted by emjaybee at 2:39 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am glad, truly, to see these stories get out. But so so angry at the depth of everyday evil they reveal. I miss my ignorance of that sometimes. Similar to how I feel about the stories of police violence (and other violence) minority folks are telling these days, that are finally getting some notice.
Glad they are finally getting heard. So angry and heartbroken to hear them.
posted by emjaybee at 2:39 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Good on the both of them (the illustrator and the friend), this is a classy, informative way of handling this stuff.
Classy as opposed to, what, angry? Informative as opposed to, what, action-based? There's one adjective missing, too: "Respectful," as in "showing respect towards the guy who did this by not mentioning his name."
Wake me up when we no longer have to be classy or informative or respectful in order to be taken seriously in our efforts to get this shit to stop.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:46 PM on March 10, 2015 [35 favorites]
Classy as opposed to, what, angry? Informative as opposed to, what, action-based? There's one adjective missing, too: "Respectful," as in "showing respect towards the guy who did this by not mentioning his name."
Wake me up when we no longer have to be classy or informative or respectful in order to be taken seriously in our efforts to get this shit to stop.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:46 PM on March 10, 2015 [35 favorites]
But I am curious about how those guys learnt to do the spiking.
I got twenty bucks that says "Carl" lived in a house with two or three big letters from a non-Roman alphabet affixed to the front.
posted by Etrigan at 3:20 PM on March 10, 2015 [35 favorites]
I got twenty bucks that says "Carl" lived in a house with two or three big letters from a non-Roman alphabet affixed to the front.
posted by Etrigan at 3:20 PM on March 10, 2015 [35 favorites]
Wake me up when we no longer have to be classy or informative or respectful in order to be taken seriously in our efforts to get this shit to stop.
It will probably be about the time when we fix the laws on slander so that the offenders can't start screaming about their legal right for their soul-breaking propensities to not be mentioned in public. They start with that, they take control of the dialogue, and they get to violate their victim again. And if they are "a leader in their field", they probably have considerable funds available for a legal defense. (Like that pig-molesting slime who ran isanybodyup.com, whining about his right to privacy and how it's messing with his name.)
This is, of course, another nauseating way that it's all to the offender's benefit.
posted by mephron at 3:26 PM on March 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
It will probably be about the time when we fix the laws on slander so that the offenders can't start screaming about their legal right for their soul-breaking propensities to not be mentioned in public. They start with that, they take control of the dialogue, and they get to violate their victim again. And if they are "a leader in their field", they probably have considerable funds available for a legal defense. (Like that pig-molesting slime who ran isanybodyup.com, whining about his right to privacy and how it's messing with his name.)
This is, of course, another nauseating way that it's all to the offender's benefit.
posted by mephron at 3:26 PM on March 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
I read this with interest and horror.
I'm glad this victim was able to disclose her (two) sexual assaults at this man's hands and get her story out in such a clear and vivid form. She seems to have been able to master her own experience of being exploited by this predator.
But I am very, very sure she is not his only victim. And I'm beyond aghast that he has moved now from one position of power over other young college aged victims to another.
What I really want to see now is his name and (true) story exposed, at the hands of a strong advocacy group like UltraViolet.
posted by bearwife at 3:45 PM on March 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm glad this victim was able to disclose her (two) sexual assaults at this man's hands and get her story out in such a clear and vivid form. She seems to have been able to master her own experience of being exploited by this predator.
But I am very, very sure she is not his only victim. And I'm beyond aghast that he has moved now from one position of power over other young college aged victims to another.
What I really want to see now is his name and (true) story exposed, at the hands of a strong advocacy group like UltraViolet.
posted by bearwife at 3:45 PM on March 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
Every once in a while, I come across something that reminds me--in a very vivid and visceral way--that I am, in fact, capable of killing someone.
This is one of those times.
That said, I'm so glad this woman shared her story. It needs to be seen, to be read, by everyone.
posted by magstheaxe at 3:54 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
This is one of those times.
That said, I'm so glad this woman shared her story. It needs to be seen, to be read, by everyone.
posted by magstheaxe at 3:54 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
I read it hoping that it'd have a good ending (as in one in which justice was served), but nope. I feel validated after reading the comic, but was also left feeling mildly sickened.
Perhaps the only sign of "justice" (but not even) in this comic was that Carl transferred colleges multiple times, which might be indicative of the fact that the admin at the schools he attended recognized him as a problematic student? I mean, the whole thing was clearly premeditated-- it couldn't have been the first time Carl did this.
posted by gemutlichkeit at 4:00 PM on March 10, 2015
Perhaps the only sign of "justice" (but not even) in this comic was that Carl transferred colleges multiple times, which might be indicative of the fact that the admin at the schools he attended recognized him as a problematic student? I mean, the whole thing was clearly premeditated-- it couldn't have been the first time Carl did this.
posted by gemutlichkeit at 4:00 PM on March 10, 2015
I wanted to cheer when this woman emailed her story to the authorities at the university where Carl worked. Sounds like he had to move on to another job, too. It's not much but it's something.
posted by orange swan at 4:05 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 4:05 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
Name him.
posted by saslett at 4:07 PM on March 10, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by saslett at 4:07 PM on March 10, 2015 [12 favorites]
But I am very, very sure she is not his only victim. And I'm beyond aghast that he has moved now from one position of power over other young college aged victims to another.
This is one of the reasons i love talking about, and sharing stories like this.
There seems to be this belief that a lot of predators, especially younger ones, just don't know any better or don't realize what they're doing or something.
This story describes someone cold and calculating, who knew exactly what they were doing from the very beginning. They had a plan, and they executed it. There was no "whoops!" or ambiguity here that so many people want to think exists and is common.
And this mirrors my own experiences encountering predators, all the way back to being a little kid. And the experiences of everyone who i've talked to about this sort of thing, with very very few exceptions.
We need to kill the myth dead that this stuff is perpetuated by people who just don't know any better and didn't realize. This is more often than not a premeditated act.
posted by emptythought at 4:30 PM on March 10, 2015 [36 favorites]
This is one of the reasons i love talking about, and sharing stories like this.
There seems to be this belief that a lot of predators, especially younger ones, just don't know any better or don't realize what they're doing or something.
This story describes someone cold and calculating, who knew exactly what they were doing from the very beginning. They had a plan, and they executed it. There was no "whoops!" or ambiguity here that so many people want to think exists and is common.
And this mirrors my own experiences encountering predators, all the way back to being a little kid. And the experiences of everyone who i've talked to about this sort of thing, with very very few exceptions.
We need to kill the myth dead that this stuff is perpetuated by people who just don't know any better and didn't realize. This is more often than not a premeditated act.
posted by emptythought at 4:30 PM on March 10, 2015 [36 favorites]
If we exposed and punished ALL the sexual predators who are also successful members of society, well... there would be a lot less "successful members of society". The good news is, with marijuana legalization coming, there will be almost as many prison cells made available as we would need. I've long been intrigued by the concept credited to Balzac that "behind every great fortune lies a crime", and have come to suspect that if you don't limit it to FINANCIAL crimes, it is a lot closer to a reliable truism. Or maybe I'm just excusing my own personal abject failure in life by thinking "it's just because I'm not a violent/dishonest/rapey person".
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:57 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:57 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think the reason why guys like "Carl" are so upsetting is that they are psychopaths. You may oust him, or get him fired, or tell his family, put him in jail, but the reality is that there is no empathy behind that face, no feelings, no remorse. A psychopath will just talk his way out of it and move on.
A psychopath, if smart, and usually they're smart, will acquire all of the power necessary to get by in our society, he'll play it like a fucking game.
You can put a psychopath in a prison if you've got enough evidence, but the punishment won't really work. There are stupid people who can be dominated and abused there too, and a rich "life" to live out there as well. And it's not like the psychopath will miss his kids.
Psychopaths take advantage of the way we trust each other based on very surface impressions. They read our social status, our delusions, our weaknesses, our gullibility. I think 'Carl' chose the protagonist of the comic for a good reason - he knew she wouldn't talk, even 30 years later. She probably had no friends, had problems with personal hygiene, and probably exhibited other "weaknesses".
Now what if Carl was bored with his family/academic life? What if he called her, knowing that she would do something about it? Knowing that it might get him fired but not jailed? What if he was testing her for fun?
I don't think there is a method to dealing with psychopaths on the higher systemic level. No laws can be passed. No way to wipe them out, or imprison them, or make them stop hurting people. Psychopaths have always been around, as long as the rest of us, all we can do is make efforts to be as smart and strong as possible.
posted by quirkyturky at 5:18 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
A psychopath, if smart, and usually they're smart, will acquire all of the power necessary to get by in our society, he'll play it like a fucking game.
You can put a psychopath in a prison if you've got enough evidence, but the punishment won't really work. There are stupid people who can be dominated and abused there too, and a rich "life" to live out there as well. And it's not like the psychopath will miss his kids.
Psychopaths take advantage of the way we trust each other based on very surface impressions. They read our social status, our delusions, our weaknesses, our gullibility. I think 'Carl' chose the protagonist of the comic for a good reason - he knew she wouldn't talk, even 30 years later. She probably had no friends, had problems with personal hygiene, and probably exhibited other "weaknesses".
Now what if Carl was bored with his family/academic life? What if he called her, knowing that she would do something about it? Knowing that it might get him fired but not jailed? What if he was testing her for fun?
I don't think there is a method to dealing with psychopaths on the higher systemic level. No laws can be passed. No way to wipe them out, or imprison them, or make them stop hurting people. Psychopaths have always been around, as long as the rest of us, all we can do is make efforts to be as smart and strong as possible.
posted by quirkyturky at 5:18 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Psychopaths take advantage of the way we trust each other based on very surface impressions. They read our social status, our delusions, our weaknesses, our gullibility.
Psychopaths are an exact definition and probably an edge case, but that sentence works for all predators, regardless of their exact diagnosis. Predators learn to take advantage of trust and of social practices like politeness and reciprocity. You see it in small things as well as in the kind of serious assaults described here, and it's often an incremental process of abusing that trust.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Psychopaths are an exact definition and probably an edge case, but that sentence works for all predators, regardless of their exact diagnosis. Predators learn to take advantage of trust and of social practices like politeness and reciprocity. You see it in small things as well as in the kind of serious assaults described here, and it's often an incremental process of abusing that trust.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it is interesting that Carl was a transfer student that everyone already thought was creepy. Makes you wonder why he had to change schools...I picture him just making his way through life, taking advantage of people without consequence, changing his environment if things got complicated; probably this got easier as he gained more social power. Chilling.
posted by maryrussell at 6:33 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by maryrussell at 6:33 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are many types of Carls with all kinds of fun patterns of behavior. Some of those behaviors, while not criminal per se, are very destructive nonetheless.
Naming these guys can be a very scary prospect especially when, as sockermom commented above, they are often "highly respected leaders in their field" and it's your word against theirs. And of course our culture teaches us to feel complicit in our own abuse.
I'm glad to see that the relevant info got into the hands of someone who could do something about it, a relatively rare occurrence. While naming is probably the best thing to do here I can only imagine the prices the survivor would pay.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:35 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Naming these guys can be a very scary prospect especially when, as sockermom commented above, they are often "highly respected leaders in their field" and it's your word against theirs. And of course our culture teaches us to feel complicit in our own abuse.
I'm glad to see that the relevant info got into the hands of someone who could do something about it, a relatively rare occurrence. While naming is probably the best thing to do here I can only imagine the prices the survivor would pay.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:35 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
If she named Carl, she'd have rape and death threats and doxxing happen to her within five seconds. Hell, probably lose her job while she's at it.
I feel very sorry for his wife and family. Especially how he must treat the wife. Because of course a creepy fucker like that has a family.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:58 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
I feel very sorry for his wife and family. Especially how he must treat the wife. Because of course a creepy fucker like that has a family.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:58 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
It reminds me a lot of the Bill Cosby saga. Guy drugs women, rapes them, moves on. Is probably aggressive and competent and gets promoted. Is powerful so women don't feel they can report rape, especially because a drugged woman doesn't have a clear memory, and has a hard time remembering the details. And the police District Attorneys aren't generally anxious to prosecute a case against a guy who seems to be a great guy, has power.
Why do men rape? Why do men abuse women? Because they can. 'Carl' goes to another institution where there are plenty of new targets.
I'd like to find 'Carl' and tattoo the word RAPIST on his forehead.
posted by theora55 at 7:46 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
Why do men rape? Why do men abuse women? Because they can. 'Carl' goes to another institution where there are plenty of new targets.
I'd like to find 'Carl' and tattoo the word RAPIST on his forehead.
posted by theora55 at 7:46 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'd like to find 'Carl' and tattoo the word RAPIST on his forehead.
The original comment I typed in response to this was "I'll help hold him down." Then I anticipated accusations from people arguing that violence shouldn't beget violence, so I changed it to "I'll help." Then I felt pre-emptively guilty and defensive, like *I* was the one perpetuating a culture of violence. Then I felt like maybe I shouldn't comment at all, that doing so would be out of line, impolite, aggressive, and other bad things.
Then I realized that that whole progression is just more evidence of how we (women) are taught (even if it's a sub rosa education) to deal with this stuff -- with guilt, shame, fear, etc. The status quo ensures that the conversation always derails to how women respond to these acts, rather than how we -- all of us, not just women -- can prevent them.
So now I'm pissed off at all that, and I'm redrawing the line and raising a fist. So, theora55, I WILL FUCKING HELP YOU HOLD HIM DOWN.
(In this hypothetical situation that will sadly never happen.)
posted by mudpuppie at 8:37 PM on March 10, 2015 [33 favorites]
The original comment I typed in response to this was "I'll help hold him down." Then I anticipated accusations from people arguing that violence shouldn't beget violence, so I changed it to "I'll help." Then I felt pre-emptively guilty and defensive, like *I* was the one perpetuating a culture of violence. Then I felt like maybe I shouldn't comment at all, that doing so would be out of line, impolite, aggressive, and other bad things.
Then I realized that that whole progression is just more evidence of how we (women) are taught (even if it's a sub rosa education) to deal with this stuff -- with guilt, shame, fear, etc. The status quo ensures that the conversation always derails to how women respond to these acts, rather than how we -- all of us, not just women -- can prevent them.
So now I'm pissed off at all that, and I'm redrawing the line and raising a fist. So, theora55, I WILL FUCKING HELP YOU HOLD HIM DOWN.
(In this hypothetical situation that will sadly never happen.)
posted by mudpuppie at 8:37 PM on March 10, 2015 [33 favorites]
While I sincerely, urgently, desperately hope that the legal system catches up with this repellant guy (I know, I know but I can't help but wish and dream for it), if I had a real choice, I'd go with fatal lightning strike.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 8:52 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 8:52 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
While I sincerely, urgently, desperately hope that the legal system catches up with this repellant guy (I know, I know but I can't help but wish and dream for it), if I had a real choice, I'd go with fatal lightning strike.
Even apart from the fact that I'm opposed to death, I prefer the legal solution. A lightning strike just affects him. Having humiliated before the world and dragged through the legal system might make somebody else think twice.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:55 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Even apart from the fact that I'm opposed to death, I prefer the legal solution. A lightning strike just affects him. Having humiliated before the world and dragged through the legal system might make somebody else think twice.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:55 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Thank you for posting, jillithd. Reading this comic was one of those moments which makes me give thanks for the internet. THIS IS WHY WE CREATED THE INTERNET. FOR STUFF LIKE THIS.
Also, seconding fatal lightning strike.
posted by Mike Mongo at 9:08 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, seconding fatal lightning strike.
posted by Mike Mongo at 9:08 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I won't name my Carl (different situation, same prototype of a sociopath rising in power who likes hurting women) for many reasons. First, I did name him, and no one really cared. People said he was a slime ball but they still were nice to him, said nice things about him, invited him to things, etc. When talking to me they would say "Carl is a bad person; I hope he rots," but then they would go home and hit "like" on his Facebook posts. This was confusing and demoralizing.
Second, when I named him to administration, I was basically told to quiet down. To make sure it didn't escalate. I wanted to scream back, "that's why I am talking to you about it, so that this doesn't escalate," but instead I was like "Yeah, cool, like, I definitely don't want this to escalate, I'll make sure that doesn't happen."
Third, I was fucking scared of him. I still am. I'm scared of what he would do to me. He is powerful and he could ruin me. He could come and have sex with me again against my will. I see men that just look like Carl and my heart jumps from fear. If I out him and he hears about it I will have to be afraid, and I don't want or need that. I know what he is capable of.
Fourth, I didn't want to be blamed. "But you stayed with him!" is a sentence I've heard more times than I care to count. Yes, I did. This is true. I had demons to work out and work to do on myself. That doesn't mean I deserved it.
Finally, God, I just want a life where I never have to think about Carl again. He was gross. He violated me in the worst way possible, over and over again, in the home we shared. He hurt me and he did not care about me as a person and he used me for sex whenever he felt like it, even when I said no. I stopped saying no because I was tired of fighting. This is still rape. You know what? There are people that I told for whom this defines me. This is what they think of me. They look at me and they see a victim. "What is it with women who just want to be with men who treat them like total shit?" asked someone recently, someone who I outed Carl to during my days of being willing to talk to anyone about it because I felt like it needed to be heard and people needed to be warned. "You would know, right, sockermom? Any insights?" And while I patiently explained the analogy of a frog in a pot of boiling water, and the difficulty of admitting that someone you love is a sociopath, I was thinking, God, I want to be talking about literally anything else right now. Anything else. I do not want to be a victim anymore. I wish no one knew this about me because it prevents me from just putting it aside and getting on with my life.
Naming him did nothing but cause me shame. I wish I had never told a soul.
posted by sockermom at 10:06 PM on March 10, 2015 [46 favorites]
Second, when I named him to administration, I was basically told to quiet down. To make sure it didn't escalate. I wanted to scream back, "that's why I am talking to you about it, so that this doesn't escalate," but instead I was like "Yeah, cool, like, I definitely don't want this to escalate, I'll make sure that doesn't happen."
Third, I was fucking scared of him. I still am. I'm scared of what he would do to me. He is powerful and he could ruin me. He could come and have sex with me again against my will. I see men that just look like Carl and my heart jumps from fear. If I out him and he hears about it I will have to be afraid, and I don't want or need that. I know what he is capable of.
Fourth, I didn't want to be blamed. "But you stayed with him!" is a sentence I've heard more times than I care to count. Yes, I did. This is true. I had demons to work out and work to do on myself. That doesn't mean I deserved it.
Finally, God, I just want a life where I never have to think about Carl again. He was gross. He violated me in the worst way possible, over and over again, in the home we shared. He hurt me and he did not care about me as a person and he used me for sex whenever he felt like it, even when I said no. I stopped saying no because I was tired of fighting. This is still rape. You know what? There are people that I told for whom this defines me. This is what they think of me. They look at me and they see a victim. "What is it with women who just want to be with men who treat them like total shit?" asked someone recently, someone who I outed Carl to during my days of being willing to talk to anyone about it because I felt like it needed to be heard and people needed to be warned. "You would know, right, sockermom? Any insights?" And while I patiently explained the analogy of a frog in a pot of boiling water, and the difficulty of admitting that someone you love is a sociopath, I was thinking, God, I want to be talking about literally anything else right now. Anything else. I do not want to be a victim anymore. I wish no one knew this about me because it prevents me from just putting it aside and getting on with my life.
Naming him did nothing but cause me shame. I wish I had never told a soul.
posted by sockermom at 10:06 PM on March 10, 2015 [46 favorites]
sockermom, I'm sorry for the pain of those experiences. Thanks for sharing your story in such a powerful way.
posted by ottereroticist at 11:18 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by ottereroticist at 11:18 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
My rapist worked for the doctor that led my disability review this year. I still cannot speak more about it than that sentence. I didn't even recognize him at first; it wasn't until I was leaving the very uncomfortable exam that I was able to ask my friend/aide, "Was that X????" Sadly, it was. I wasn't just being paranoid.
Oddly enough, his name is Carl.
posted by _paegan_ at 11:52 PM on March 10, 2015
Oddly enough, his name is Carl.
posted by _paegan_ at 11:52 PM on March 10, 2015
I think the reason why guys like "Carl" are so upsetting is that they are psychopaths.
My slight fear about the comic presentation is that Carl probably enjoys reading it.
posted by Segundus at 12:14 AM on March 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
My slight fear about the comic presentation is that Carl probably enjoys reading it.
posted by Segundus at 12:14 AM on March 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
The guy, 'Carl,' should get outed/doxxed/whatever you wanna call it. Doesn't have to be by this woman, she could pass the name along to a friend who would then out it. I'm sure, like with the Cosby case, other women he had done this to would show up in droves. What else do you do with a creature like this? It 'Carl' is not fit for a civil society, and taking it out into the field and putting it down is -let's say - not net positive.
So you push it out into the light. Over and over if need be. You don't let that shit fly, and if you can't do it yourself, you turn to your friends to help you - similarly, if your friend comes to you with such a story, you help them out because standing by is tantamount to participating.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:51 AM on March 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
So you push it out into the light. Over and over if need be. You don't let that shit fly, and if you can't do it yourself, you turn to your friends to help you - similarly, if your friend comes to you with such a story, you help them out because standing by is tantamount to participating.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:51 AM on March 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
So you push it out into the light.
This is what she has done, by allowing the artist to draw this piece. It may be what she is able to do, and she may not be able to do more. It's already doing a lot, given the circs.
posted by chavenet at 2:45 AM on March 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is what she has done, by allowing the artist to draw this piece. It may be what she is able to do, and she may not be able to do more. It's already doing a lot, given the circs.
posted by chavenet at 2:45 AM on March 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Reading this, I wanted closure. A happy ending. Getting his name would help with that.
But then we'd feel like we had closure. And we don't. By not naming him, it is that much more insidious. Carl is everywhere and could be anybody. There is not just one Carl to out. (As some previous comments confirm.)
By putting this story out there, it makes disbelief of new stories harder to do. There is more precedence.
posted by jillithd at 5:55 AM on March 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
But then we'd feel like we had closure. And we don't. By not naming him, it is that much more insidious. Carl is everywhere and could be anybody. There is not just one Carl to out. (As some previous comments confirm.)
By putting this story out there, it makes disbelief of new stories harder to do. There is more precedence.
posted by jillithd at 5:55 AM on March 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
..."What is it with women who just want to be with men who treat them like total shit?"...And while I patiently explained the analogy of a frog in a pot of boiling water, and the difficulty of admitting that someone you love is a sociopath, I was thinking, God, I want to be talking about literally anything else right now.
Firstly, sockermom, I'm so sorry you have to deal with that.
Your comment reminded me of something. Here in recent years when I've found myself trying to explain to anyone why women stay--especially younger people--I find myself telling them to go watch the first Twilight movie. Why? Because Bella and Edward's relationship in the Twilight series meets fifteen criteria set by the National Domestic Violence Hotline for being in an emotionally or physically abusive relationship.
If there's one thing good thing I got from enduring the first Twilight movie (haven't seen the rest, and don't intend to), it's what an abusive relationship can look like from the viewpoint of the woman who is in love with her abuser, and who believes the abuser loves her.
Most of the time, when abusive relationships are shown in the media, it's very clear who the bad guy is, and that abuse is happening. It's so obvious that the viewer is left wondering "Why does she stay with him?"
But with the Twilight movies, the story is presented from the viewpoint of Bella, and Bella is in love with her abuser. So she literally doesn't perceive the abuse--she automatically filters it through a prism of "he loves me", which allows her to forgive Edward when he acts towards her in a way that's upsetting and/or abusive. Her mind interprets any threatening behavior from Edward as an act of love, allowing her to cling to the delusion that he's the perfect boyfriend, even though he eventually kills her.
I repeat: Twilight's told from Bella's point of view, and Bella is not a reliable narrator of her own story. She is the source of any "facts" presented, and that means those facts can't be trusted.
Bella's not an investigative journalist reporting what's going on, with a commitment to get to the truth no matter how ugly it is. She's a teenage girl in an abusive relationship. Her inexperience impairs her judgment and her understanding of events. That makes everything she says about Edward unreliable, because she's always going to interpret whatever he says as the truth, and whatever he does as good.
Bella actually reminds me a little bit of Humbert Humbert, the main character and narrator of Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita. Humbert tells the story in such a way as to justify his pedophilic fixation on young girls. As far as he's concerned, he and Lolita are having this grand, classic love affair. He tells his story with elegant prose, with sincerity and grief for what was lost, and the reader has to keep reminding himself that Humbert is describing a relationship where he pressures his 12-year-old stepdaughter for sex. The way he tells it, Lolita is eager to be with him, she's the one who willingly gives sex to him. We never get the truth, since Humbert controls how we get the story, but we are still left with the undeniable fact that this was a middle-aged man molesting a 12-year old girl.
And in Bella's case, we're still left with the fact that a century-old vampire kills her while she's in love with him. The movie viewer can't trust Bella's version of events because she's got Stockholm Syndrome so bad she may as well buy a condo there.
Of course, Steph Meyer isn't Nabokov (oh dear GOD, is she not Nabokov!), and I'm quite certain Meyer didn't plan to write the Twilight series with that level of sophistication because she's a terrible writer and simply doesn't have it in her. But I think viewing Twilight from that perspective is a good exercise, because like it or not, intentionally or not, Meyer has written a book that IMO is a fantastic example of what abuse can look like to a woman in love with her abuser.
Twilight is a movie that shows what traumatic bonding/victimization/etc. can look like through the eyes of the victim, in other words. From that perspective, it's actually kind of fascinating. And when you consider the way the fans hold up the books and/movies as some kind of romantic ideal, well...it becomes easier to understand the social pressure many women feel to stay in an abusive relationship.
If I can get the person I'm talking to to accept the Twilight premise (and in the admittedly few times I've deployed that strategy, it's been easier than you might think), it's then easier to talk about the other major reasons women stay--lack of support, financial dependence, the way violence escalates when she does finally try to leave, etc.
TL;DR: For everyone who says "Why does (insert name here) stay with him when he hits her?", I start by telling them "Watch Twilight. That may be how she sees him."
posted by magstheaxe at 9:58 AM on March 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
Firstly, sockermom, I'm so sorry you have to deal with that.
Your comment reminded me of something. Here in recent years when I've found myself trying to explain to anyone why women stay--especially younger people--I find myself telling them to go watch the first Twilight movie. Why? Because Bella and Edward's relationship in the Twilight series meets fifteen criteria set by the National Domestic Violence Hotline for being in an emotionally or physically abusive relationship.
If there's one thing good thing I got from enduring the first Twilight movie (haven't seen the rest, and don't intend to), it's what an abusive relationship can look like from the viewpoint of the woman who is in love with her abuser, and who believes the abuser loves her.
Most of the time, when abusive relationships are shown in the media, it's very clear who the bad guy is, and that abuse is happening. It's so obvious that the viewer is left wondering "Why does she stay with him?"
But with the Twilight movies, the story is presented from the viewpoint of Bella, and Bella is in love with her abuser. So she literally doesn't perceive the abuse--she automatically filters it through a prism of "he loves me", which allows her to forgive Edward when he acts towards her in a way that's upsetting and/or abusive. Her mind interprets any threatening behavior from Edward as an act of love, allowing her to cling to the delusion that he's the perfect boyfriend, even though he eventually kills her.
I repeat: Twilight's told from Bella's point of view, and Bella is not a reliable narrator of her own story. She is the source of any "facts" presented, and that means those facts can't be trusted.
Bella's not an investigative journalist reporting what's going on, with a commitment to get to the truth no matter how ugly it is. She's a teenage girl in an abusive relationship. Her inexperience impairs her judgment and her understanding of events. That makes everything she says about Edward unreliable, because she's always going to interpret whatever he says as the truth, and whatever he does as good.
Bella actually reminds me a little bit of Humbert Humbert, the main character and narrator of Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita. Humbert tells the story in such a way as to justify his pedophilic fixation on young girls. As far as he's concerned, he and Lolita are having this grand, classic love affair. He tells his story with elegant prose, with sincerity and grief for what was lost, and the reader has to keep reminding himself that Humbert is describing a relationship where he pressures his 12-year-old stepdaughter for sex. The way he tells it, Lolita is eager to be with him, she's the one who willingly gives sex to him. We never get the truth, since Humbert controls how we get the story, but we are still left with the undeniable fact that this was a middle-aged man molesting a 12-year old girl.
And in Bella's case, we're still left with the fact that a century-old vampire kills her while she's in love with him. The movie viewer can't trust Bella's version of events because she's got Stockholm Syndrome so bad she may as well buy a condo there.
Of course, Steph Meyer isn't Nabokov (oh dear GOD, is she not Nabokov!), and I'm quite certain Meyer didn't plan to write the Twilight series with that level of sophistication because she's a terrible writer and simply doesn't have it in her. But I think viewing Twilight from that perspective is a good exercise, because like it or not, intentionally or not, Meyer has written a book that IMO is a fantastic example of what abuse can look like to a woman in love with her abuser.
Twilight is a movie that shows what traumatic bonding/victimization/etc. can look like through the eyes of the victim, in other words. From that perspective, it's actually kind of fascinating. And when you consider the way the fans hold up the books and/movies as some kind of romantic ideal, well...it becomes easier to understand the social pressure many women feel to stay in an abusive relationship.
If I can get the person I'm talking to to accept the Twilight premise (and in the admittedly few times I've deployed that strategy, it's been easier than you might think), it's then easier to talk about the other major reasons women stay--lack of support, financial dependence, the way violence escalates when she does finally try to leave, etc.
TL;DR: For everyone who says "Why does (insert name here) stay with him when he hits her?", I start by telling them "Watch Twilight. That may be how she sees him."
posted by magstheaxe at 9:58 AM on March 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
TL;DR: For everyone who says "Why does (insert name here) stay with him when he hits her?", I start by telling them "Watch Twilight. That may be how she sees him."
I'd suggest that Twilight is just another example of the way our culture glorifies violence against women. It is a trope of the romance genre that the cold, abusive good looking guy is the love interest. Fifty Shades of Gray is another modern example of this familiar idea. And yes, this fools less experienced women into dismissing abusiveness and in fact feeling it is a reinforcement for romantic attraction.
I will know there is change afoot when we stop asking why victims stay and start asking why abusers are getting away with being abusive.
posted by bearwife at 11:04 AM on March 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'd suggest that Twilight is just another example of the way our culture glorifies violence against women. It is a trope of the romance genre that the cold, abusive good looking guy is the love interest. Fifty Shades of Gray is another modern example of this familiar idea. And yes, this fools less experienced women into dismissing abusiveness and in fact feeling it is a reinforcement for romantic attraction.
I will know there is change afoot when we stop asking why victims stay and start asking why abusers are getting away with being abusive.
posted by bearwife at 11:04 AM on March 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Thanks, magstheaxe. I never thought I would have any desire at all to watch Twilight and now I kind of do.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:43 AM on March 11, 2015
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:43 AM on March 11, 2015
interesting perspective--i'm curious to watch Twilight now too!
"Why does (insert name here) stay with him?",
this quote really rung true to me:
"I continued to spend time with Ben because...continuing to have sex with him helped normalize what had happened to me. At least this time I was having sex on my terms, I told myself."
from http://www.ashleymanta.com/naming_my_rapist_after_15_years
posted by JBD at 3:53 PM on March 11, 2015
"Why does (insert name here) stay with him?",
this quote really rung true to me:
"I continued to spend time with Ben because...continuing to have sex with him helped normalize what had happened to me. At least this time I was having sex on my terms, I told myself."
from http://www.ashleymanta.com/naming_my_rapist_after_15_years
posted by JBD at 3:53 PM on March 11, 2015
If we exposed and punished ALL the sexual predators who are also successful members of society, well... there would be a lot less "successful members of society".
I've written about this on here before somewhere a long time ago... But i haven't met any successful predators who weren't well, otherwise successful people in other areas of life. I've met unsuccessful awkward creepy who never predated that i knew of, just tried to but were too awkward/ineffective to really do anything but scare people and create awkward situations... but the predators, no, they were basically all charismatic assholes everyone liked.
Popular local musicians, program leaders at community events/things(including stuff like the guy who managed letting little kids run the gigantic christmas model train layout in a city building, ick), well liked and known local artists, etc.
The template of a predator seems to generally be someone that a few people get a weird read on or creeped out by, but who mostly have a large cheerleader squad of people to go "nah, they're great! i've known them for years! and all these other people like them too" with the implication that you're just weird and you need to drop it, and if you don't like them or keep following this thread then you're not cool and we don't want to hang out with you.
Sometimes this cult of personality is so strong that someone like that will get called out blatantly, in public, for something fucked up they did maybe even in which there's public evidence and then people who respond to the callout with something like "oh my god!" will just keep talking to and hanging out with that person.
So yea, they're very often the cool, charismatic, successful people who are almost universally liked. Part of it seems like intentional cover, and part of it seems like it's some kind of "i take what i want and i get what i want" approach to life. I don't know if they're sociopaths, but it's a CEO attitude and i've seen it over and over.
posted by emptythought at 4:24 PM on March 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
I've written about this on here before somewhere a long time ago... But i haven't met any successful predators who weren't well, otherwise successful people in other areas of life. I've met unsuccessful awkward creepy who never predated that i knew of, just tried to but were too awkward/ineffective to really do anything but scare people and create awkward situations... but the predators, no, they were basically all charismatic assholes everyone liked.
Popular local musicians, program leaders at community events/things(including stuff like the guy who managed letting little kids run the gigantic christmas model train layout in a city building, ick), well liked and known local artists, etc.
The template of a predator seems to generally be someone that a few people get a weird read on or creeped out by, but who mostly have a large cheerleader squad of people to go "nah, they're great! i've known them for years! and all these other people like them too" with the implication that you're just weird and you need to drop it, and if you don't like them or keep following this thread then you're not cool and we don't want to hang out with you.
Sometimes this cult of personality is so strong that someone like that will get called out blatantly, in public, for something fucked up they did maybe even in which there's public evidence and then people who respond to the callout with something like "oh my god!" will just keep talking to and hanging out with that person.
So yea, they're very often the cool, charismatic, successful people who are almost universally liked. Part of it seems like intentional cover, and part of it seems like it's some kind of "i take what i want and i get what i want" approach to life. I don't know if they're sociopaths, but it's a CEO attitude and i've seen it over and over.
posted by emptythought at 4:24 PM on March 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Afterword: On responses to college rape comic - Jen Sorensen
posted by jillithd at 6:43 AM on March 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jillithd at 6:43 AM on March 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
That was a very nice read. Thank you for posting the follow up jillithd
posted by infini at 2:40 PM on March 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 2:40 PM on March 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
A handful of individuals have insinuated that the story is made up, or that it should be treated with extreme skepticism
As the next sentences say, it's pretty telling that even in a completely anonymous comic with made up names which could pretty much be any people in anytown USA is still an unacceptable story that must just be made up by harpies for attention.
The rapist here might as well be a faceless villain never to be seen, same with the woman basically being the teacher from Charlie Brown, but it still inspires this kind of vitriol that it must somehow be attention aggroing or just... somehow a bad thing that shouldn't exist.
Really awesome demonstration of that point, at least.
posted by emptythought at 7:15 PM on March 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
As the next sentences say, it's pretty telling that even in a completely anonymous comic with made up names which could pretty much be any people in anytown USA is still an unacceptable story that must just be made up by harpies for attention.
The rapist here might as well be a faceless villain never to be seen, same with the woman basically being the teacher from Charlie Brown, but it still inspires this kind of vitriol that it must somehow be attention aggroing or just... somehow a bad thing that shouldn't exist.
Really awesome demonstration of that point, at least.
posted by emptythought at 7:15 PM on March 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
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posted by chavenet at 2:07 PM on March 10, 2015 [24 favorites]