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April 3, 2015 10:49 AM Subscribe
"Mad Men" and Its Love Affair With 60s Pop Culture “Nothing ended up in the show that wasn’t related to story.”
two! more! nights! and! one! more! sunrise! (for those of us who bought a subscription)
I would question that quote re: Glen but I'm not a fan of the character. :P
This looks damn well comprehensive. I've got to delve into it Sunday night while the TV people watch it. I've always thought I put too much into it ... "Bye Bye, Birdie" and then he divorces his Birdie (Betty) ...
posted by tilde at 11:01 AM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would question that quote re: Glen but I'm not a fan of the character. :P
This looks damn well comprehensive. I've got to delve into it Sunday night while the TV people watch it. I've always thought I put too much into it ... "Bye Bye, Birdie" and then he divorces his Birdie (Betty) ...
posted by tilde at 11:01 AM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Over at the LRB, James Meek on The Shock of the Pretty (Seventy hours with Don Draper):
It’s one thing, it turns out, to ask those responsible for the texture of fictional TV worlds to re-create the 1960s, quite another to get them to take that re-creation and make it scruffier, meaner, more disappointing, more real; to accept that while the ideal 1964 might contain artefacts and costumes from 1964 alone, the perfectly real 1964 would be packed with the fashions of 1963 and 1962 and the distressed remnants of the purchases of the 1950s; to accept that banal interiors, clashing colours, tawdry novelties and dull messiness are also ideals in their way, ideals whose incorporation into costume drama might deter the viewer’s suspicion that the designers of Mad Men are answering a bigger share of the question ‘Why am I watching this?’ than the writers would like.posted by ormon nekas at 11:09 AM on April 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
The Cowboy Vs. the Astronaut: the frontiers of Mad Men
posted by The Whelk at 11:12 AM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 11:12 AM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Designer Janie Bryant deserves a writing credit for the stories those costumes tell.
posted by mochapickle at 11:12 AM on April 3, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 11:12 AM on April 3, 2015 [15 favorites]
to accept that while the ideal 1964 might contain artefacts and costumes from 1964 alone, the perfectly real 1964 would be packed with the fashions of 1963 and 1962 and the distressed remnants of the purchases of the 1950s; to accept that banal interiors, clashing colours, tawdry novelties and dull messiness are also ideals in their wayThis is my constant criticism of 20C period pieces; particularly those made in the US: everything you see depicted is from around the year depicted. Where are all the cars from the 1950s and earlier that should have been there? Hell, even in Manhattan most ordinary people outside a certain age range and income bracket were not dressed in the mode. Go outside right now. You'll see cars up to 20 years old in large numbers. Depending on where you are, almost nothing you see was made in the last 5-10 years. In many urban areas only a fraction of what you see was made in the last thirty. British TV does it a little better, but not that much better. Horses would have been seen on many urban streets until well after the war and didn't vanish entirely until 1970 or so.
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:28 PM on April 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Where are all the cars from the 1950s and earlier that should have been there?
I laughed when that old beater with tail fins rolled by in the background in 'Blade Runner'.
posted by ovvl at 1:42 PM on April 3, 2015
I laughed when that old beater with tail fins rolled by in the background in 'Blade Runner'.
posted by ovvl at 1:42 PM on April 3, 2015
That was a 1960 Chrysler Imperial; you can thank the film's designer Syd Mead for throwing that in. He's been a design consultant for more auto companies than he hasn't, and I believe he owns a couple of Imperials.
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:49 PM on April 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:49 PM on April 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Horses would have been seen on many urban streets until well after the war and didn't vanish entirely until 1970 or so.
My first night living in Omaha, in 1996, I was awakened by the sound of horses outside my window. It was at the very end of being a packing industry town, and cowboys sometimes still drove cattle through town on horseback.
posted by maxsparber at 1:51 PM on April 3, 2015
My first night living in Omaha, in 1996, I was awakened by the sound of horses outside my window. It was at the very end of being a packing industry town, and cowboys sometimes still drove cattle through town on horseback.
posted by maxsparber at 1:51 PM on April 3, 2015
to accept that while the ideal 1964 might contain artefacts and costumes from 1964 alone, the perfectly real 1964 would be packed with the fashions of 1963 and 1962 and the distressed remnants of the purchases of the 1950s; to accept that banal interiors, clashing colours, tawdry novelties and dull messiness are also ideals in their way
I have the same criticism and wonder why such a (seemingly) obvious point is ignored by the show's producers. Unless it's a deliberate choice.
posted by Ratio at 2:31 PM on April 3, 2015
I have the same criticism and wonder why such a (seemingly) obvious point is ignored by the show's producers. Unless it's a deliberate choice.
posted by Ratio at 2:31 PM on April 3, 2015
Yeah, there's a show on the BBC these days about what people ate in the past, going decade by decade. It's actually pretty interesting, but the gimmick is that they redo the fashion and decor for each decade; it's always PEAK [DECADE], which historically has never, ever, ever been what homes actually look like.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:56 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 2:56 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'll have you know that everywhere I've lived since 2012 has looked peak 2012 and will continue looking peak 2012 indefinitely.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's also been Mad Men Week over on the AV Club.
The For Our Consideration series has been really good, I thought:
Don Draper is No Anti-Hero
Birds do it, bees do it: Mad Men's the unsexiest show on TV
The Seven Defining Pitches of Mad Men
Cowboys vs. Astronauts: The Frontiers of Mad Men
In addition, some of their other features have been focusing on the music of Mad Men, interviews, other shows the cast have been in, and other pieces of pop culture around the show.
posted by nubs at 3:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
The For Our Consideration series has been really good, I thought:
Don Draper is No Anti-Hero
Birds do it, bees do it: Mad Men's the unsexiest show on TV
The Seven Defining Pitches of Mad Men
Cowboys vs. Astronauts: The Frontiers of Mad Men
In addition, some of their other features have been focusing on the music of Mad Men, interviews, other shows the cast have been in, and other pieces of pop culture around the show.
posted by nubs at 3:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm beyond excited for the season to start up. Reading through everything here has only heightened that. I'm hoping that Don doesn't go out in a dramatic fashion, but rather that he finally manages to have some peace with himself. Maybe even by repairing his relationship to his children, and finally becoming a real father. That's something that was hinted at in the past season, especially in his relationship to Sally. The Fanfare discussions are going to be great.
posted by codacorolla at 3:50 PM on April 3, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 3:50 PM on April 3, 2015
Hopefully the denouement is good enough for me to binge watch it; I haven't seen an episode because I don't want to get burnt like Lost
posted by Renoroc at 4:09 PM on April 3, 2015
posted by Renoroc at 4:09 PM on April 3, 2015
Hopefully the denouement is good enough for me to binge watch it
In the end we learn that it was really all about the chip-n-dip.
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:12 PM on April 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
In the end we learn that it was really all about the chip-n-dip.
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:12 PM on April 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
The final scene is Don's serene face as he parachutes out of the plane with 14 million dollars strapped to his chest.
posted by codacorolla at 4:14 PM on April 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 4:14 PM on April 3, 2015 [11 favorites]
My real ideal ending would be a fast-forward to the 80s to see how the main characters are coping with something that more closely approaches our own modernity, but Wiener has repeatedly said that's not going to happen.
posted by codacorolla at 4:17 PM on April 3, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 4:17 PM on April 3, 2015
....Or lands, lets the money and chute flutter away, and walks away empty handed with a purposeful stride...
posted by mochapickle at 4:17 PM on April 3, 2015
posted by mochapickle at 4:17 PM on April 3, 2015
In the end we learn that it was really all about the chip-n-dip.
I've been viewing Pete's gun as kind of the ultimate Chekov's gun ploy by the writers. They have to use it, right?
Hopefully the denouement is good enough for me to binge watch it; I haven't seen an episode because I don't want to get burnt like Lost
I kinda don't know how to respond to that; because unlike Lost and Breaking Bad and The Sopranos, I don't feel like there is an inherent promise of resolution/answers/closure with Mad Men. It's a series of stories about people in the ad business in the 60s and how the world is changing around, with, and in spite of them. In all honesty, I think the only way "Mad Men" doesn't stick the landing is if they try to wrap things up with a neat bow.
posted by nubs at 4:27 PM on April 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
I've been viewing Pete's gun as kind of the ultimate Chekov's gun ploy by the writers. They have to use it, right?
Hopefully the denouement is good enough for me to binge watch it; I haven't seen an episode because I don't want to get burnt like Lost
I kinda don't know how to respond to that; because unlike Lost and Breaking Bad and The Sopranos, I don't feel like there is an inherent promise of resolution/answers/closure with Mad Men. It's a series of stories about people in the ad business in the 60s and how the world is changing around, with, and in spite of them. In all honesty, I think the only way "Mad Men" doesn't stick the landing is if they try to wrap things up with a neat bow.
posted by nubs at 4:27 PM on April 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
Nubs is right. In taking a wider scope than a simple serialized plot-focused show, Mad Men transcends being about something to instead be about everything.
And I mean that in the best possible sense.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:55 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
And I mean that in the best possible sense.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:55 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
My only disappointment would be a flash forward or definitive ending. If I know my Matt Weiner it will be more breaking bad than six feet under, which is cool with me.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:56 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:56 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also. It can't end. It musn't.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:57 PM on April 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:57 PM on April 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
"old don draper in 2015, looking at an iPhone, tipping his shades down - "I could get used to this."
— Scott Aukerman
/spoilers/
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:59 PM on April 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
— Scott Aukerman
/spoilers/
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:59 PM on April 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Everyone knows how Mad Men has to end, with Don Draper saying "Computer, end simulation."
posted by The Whelk at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2015 [14 favorites]
Lots of great stuff in this from Grantland - The Bottom of the Glass: Legacy and the Last Season of MadMen
The noble carousel of Mad Men’s first season has become a hamster wheel. It’s the great tradition of American sitcoms to suggest that there could be nothing better than keeping the gang together, season after season, for adventure after adventure. It’s the great legacy of Mad Men to suggest that maybe this sort of comedy, in the fullness of time, begins to look more and more like tragedy...
...It’s a very contemporary notion, this idea that prestige TV series all have one core story to tell. It’s the sort of framework that makes sense for expertly constructed diving bells like Breaking Bad or the new breed of limited series like True Detective and Fargo, but not something as intentionally digressive as Mad Men. TV storytelling is rarely a perfect, arcing javelin toss. It’s more like a spilled cocktail, soaking everything, in all directions all at once. I promise you that wherever we end up six weeks from now wasn’t the planned destination when we embarked. And that’s a good thing...
...Audiences today hunger for payoffs and meaning: We demand to know where Sal ended up; whom Peggy might marry; if, for God’s sake, anyone will ever actually jump out of that high midtown window. We do this even though we know that the answers would diminish the magic and contradict Mad Men’s essential worldview: that real life occurs between history’s signposts, without much rhyme and with precious little reason. That the drink, once mixed, can never be poured back into the bottle.
Contains incredibly minor spoilers for this Sunday's episode.
posted by nubs at 5:28 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
The noble carousel of Mad Men’s first season has become a hamster wheel. It’s the great tradition of American sitcoms to suggest that there could be nothing better than keeping the gang together, season after season, for adventure after adventure. It’s the great legacy of Mad Men to suggest that maybe this sort of comedy, in the fullness of time, begins to look more and more like tragedy...
...It’s a very contemporary notion, this idea that prestige TV series all have one core story to tell. It’s the sort of framework that makes sense for expertly constructed diving bells like Breaking Bad or the new breed of limited series like True Detective and Fargo, but not something as intentionally digressive as Mad Men. TV storytelling is rarely a perfect, arcing javelin toss. It’s more like a spilled cocktail, soaking everything, in all directions all at once. I promise you that wherever we end up six weeks from now wasn’t the planned destination when we embarked. And that’s a good thing...
...Audiences today hunger for payoffs and meaning: We demand to know where Sal ended up; whom Peggy might marry; if, for God’s sake, anyone will ever actually jump out of that high midtown window. We do this even though we know that the answers would diminish the magic and contradict Mad Men’s essential worldview: that real life occurs between history’s signposts, without much rhyme and with precious little reason. That the drink, once mixed, can never be poured back into the bottle.
Contains incredibly minor spoilers for this Sunday's episode.
posted by nubs at 5:28 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Or perhaps it will end with Don making the pitch of his life. The ultimate Don Draper pitch. And then he turns to the hushed crowd assembled and says, "Now i'f you'll excuse me, I have a thing" before launching himself out the window to the familiar strains of the theme song.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:30 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:30 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Don Draper moves to Indiana and has indeniical triplets late in life, one moves to Pawnee, one starts a cult in Durnsville, and the other moves to New York and briefly dates Liz Lemon.
posted by The Whelk at 5:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
I am going to miss Peggy Olson so goddamned much.
posted by sallybrown at 7:09 PM on April 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:09 PM on April 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Hell, even in Manhattan most ordinary people outside a certain age range and income bracket were not dressed in the mode.
At one of my former employers where suits were the norm, almost every single guy in his late 40s wore the same style of 3-button suit that was stylist in the early 00s. It's really uncanny. No doubt in 10 years, younger men will look at my suits as an artifact of the late 00s/early 10s mod-revival.
posted by deanc at 8:10 PM on April 3, 2015
At one of my former employers where suits were the norm, almost every single guy in his late 40s wore the same style of 3-button suit that was stylist in the early 00s. It's really uncanny. No doubt in 10 years, younger men will look at my suits as an artifact of the late 00s/early 10s mod-revival.
posted by deanc at 8:10 PM on April 3, 2015
I always bought it was funny Mad Men got big JUST as the 00s mod/early 60s revival* was dying down and kind of propped it back it .
*which was, of course, a continuation of the 90s passion for 50s camp and space age bachelor pad kitsch. Other generation's interpretations of past styles are fascinating, like there was a solid 30s revival in both the 70s and 80s both the former focused on peasant shirts and shanties while the later was all hard glossy glamour. Like glass boxes in decor where a bit of thing in the 30s but then the 80s designs ran with it and made everything glass boxes and black marble , like how the later conception of the 80s focused on the occasional bright neon hyper color synth stuff - which was never actually that popular and RAN WITH IT making this alternate version of the 80s ...like how the 70s santiEd the 50s into being all about teenagers and hamburgers and not ...all about the nuclear bomb and Communist witch hunts.
posted by The Whelk at 8:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
*which was, of course, a continuation of the 90s passion for 50s camp and space age bachelor pad kitsch. Other generation's interpretations of past styles are fascinating, like there was a solid 30s revival in both the 70s and 80s both the former focused on peasant shirts and shanties while the later was all hard glossy glamour. Like glass boxes in decor where a bit of thing in the 30s but then the 80s designs ran with it and made everything glass boxes and black marble , like how the later conception of the 80s focused on the occasional bright neon hyper color synth stuff - which was never actually that popular and RAN WITH IT making this alternate version of the 80s ...like how the 70s santiEd the 50s into being all about teenagers and hamburgers and not ...all about the nuclear bomb and Communist witch hunts.
posted by The Whelk at 8:35 PM on April 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm waiting for the 70s revival where you can be a gross slob. I guess the whole beardy lumberjack thing is already a bit of that.
posted by codacorolla at 9:19 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 9:19 PM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been viewing Pete's gun as kind of the ultimate Chekov's gun ploy by the writers. They have to use it, right?
I think the gun is just a symbol of Pete never really being able to settle into his nuclear family suburban lifestyle. Lie his constant pinning for Manhattan.
posted by dry white toast at 8:45 AM on April 4, 2015
I think the gun is just a symbol of Pete never really being able to settle into his nuclear family suburban lifestyle. Lie his constant pinning for Manhattan.
posted by dry white toast at 8:45 AM on April 4, 2015
I'm waiting for the 70s revival where you can be a gross slob. I guess the whole beardy lumberjack thing is already a bit of that.
Yuck. Please do not mention beardy lumberjacks in discussions about cable drama finales.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:49 AM on April 4, 2015
Yuck. Please do not mention beardy lumberjacks in discussions about cable drama finales.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:49 AM on April 4, 2015
Yuck. Please do not mention beardy lumberjacks in discussions about cable drama finales.
Crosby Stan and Nash begs to differ.
posted by codacorolla at 10:28 AM on April 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Crosby Stan and Nash begs to differ.
posted by codacorolla at 10:28 AM on April 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Minor Mad Men cast members speculate where their characters end up
posted by The Whelk at 12:09 PM on April 4, 2015
posted by The Whelk at 12:09 PM on April 4, 2015
I had fun reading Grantland's summary of the non-Don cast. I really am going to miss this show when it's gone.
posted by codacorolla at 12:22 PM on April 4, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 12:22 PM on April 4, 2015
Salon - Mad Men Eulogies:
Donald Francis Draper is post war America. Handsome and strapping, charming and successful, a newly-minted superpower that nonetheless feels more than a little like a lie, one that feeds itself propaganda about who it really is, one that grows drunk on its own dreams.
posted by nubs at 4:13 PM on April 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Donald Francis Draper is post war America. Handsome and strapping, charming and successful, a newly-minted superpower that nonetheless feels more than a little like a lie, one that feeds itself propaganda about who it really is, one that grows drunk on its own dreams.
posted by nubs at 4:13 PM on April 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Saying "oh peggy no" and "oh don no" in equal measure at my TV: it's back baby!
posted by codacorolla at 8:15 PM on April 5, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 8:15 PM on April 5, 2015
So I don't get AMC at my house and I watch everything on iTunes in the wee hours on Monday mornings. And I'm so torn: Tune in for any shred of delicious glorious spoilers, or wait until early morning. Tricky!
posted by mochapickle at 8:22 PM on April 5, 2015
posted by mochapickle at 8:22 PM on April 5, 2015
Can anyone add an discussion post to FanFare or is there a designated someone who does it? I HAVE OPINIONS
posted by dry white toast at 8:43 PM on April 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dry white toast at 8:43 PM on April 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Saying "oh peggy no" and "oh don no" in equal measure at my TV
Really? Way more of the latter over here.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:06 PM on April 5, 2015
Really? Way more of the latter over here.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:06 PM on April 5, 2015
Another entry in the AV Club Mad Men Week: How Resurrection Really Feels
posted by nubs at 8:56 AM on April 6, 2015
posted by nubs at 8:56 AM on April 6, 2015
From 2014: Breaking Down the Art You Missed on "Mad Men"
posted by maggieb at 12:56 PM on April 14, 2015
posted by maggieb at 12:56 PM on April 14, 2015
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