Water, Water, Everywhere
April 8, 2015 11:22 AM Subscribe
NASA posits a larger amount of water in the solar system and beyond. With the recent hypothesis (trigger: bad science) that extra terrestrials might be quite large, how long do we have until the Space Whales come for us? Discuss.
"trigger: bad science"?
Yes, good thing that you put that trigger warning in there for the sake of people who might have PTSD reactions to bad science....
posted by edheil at 11:35 AM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, good thing that you put that trigger warning in there for the sake of people who might have PTSD reactions to bad science....
posted by edheil at 11:35 AM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, good thing that you put that trigger warning in there for the sake of people who might have PTSD reactions to bad science....
There are days, man, there are days...
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 11:36 AM on April 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
There are days, man, there are days...
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 11:36 AM on April 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Looking at this graphic, http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/infographics/infographic.view.php?id=11262, all I can think when I see Mimas is "that's no moon..."
posted by ghostiger at 11:47 AM on April 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by ghostiger at 11:47 AM on April 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Newsweek has gone downhill, but that is literally the worse article ever. It's so terrible I'm stunned even Newsweek published it.
posted by GuyZero at 11:50 AM on April 8, 2015
posted by GuyZero at 11:50 AM on April 8, 2015
The important question: how do we get that water to California? Can we trade alfalfa to the space whales?
posted by Foosnark at 11:55 AM on April 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 11:55 AM on April 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
At least now there is no reason for The Visitors to plunder Gaia for liquid dihydrogen monoxide.
posted by Renoroc at 12:08 PM on April 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 12:08 PM on April 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Newsweek has gone downhill, but that is literally the worse article ever. It's so terrible I'm stunned even Newsweek published it.
Hence the trigger warning!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:10 PM on April 8, 2015
Hence the trigger warning!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:10 PM on April 8, 2015
At least now there is no reason for The Visitors to plunder Gaia for liquid dihydrogen monoxide
...and by the time they get here they're not going to find any of it in solid form.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:26 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
...and by the time they get here they're not going to find any of it in solid form.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:26 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
The really important question is when are we sending probes to investigate any of these worlds. The answer is that the ESA will be launch the Jupiter Icy Moon Explorer in 2022, it'll reach Jupiter in 2030 and explore Callisto, Europa and Ganymede, before settling into orbit around Ganymede in 2033.
So in 15-18 years, we'll be getting more detailed information about water on a few of these bodies.
When are going to explore Enceladus, a moon of Saturn that's literally throwing water into space? No one knows.
But we're still sending probes to Mars looking for traces of water, so there's that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:27 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
So in 15-18 years, we'll be getting more detailed information about water on a few of these bodies.
When are going to explore Enceladus, a moon of Saturn that's literally throwing water into space? No one knows.
But we're still sending probes to Mars looking for traces of water, so there's that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:27 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sadly "Space Lizards Invade Europa" didn't make for very engaging 80's television.
posted by GuyZero at 12:27 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 12:27 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
No concern for the space bowl of petunias, then.
posted by ardgedee at 12:29 PM on April 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ardgedee at 12:29 PM on April 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Not a bit. Fuck Agrajag.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:32 PM on April 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:32 PM on April 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
But we're still sending probes to Mars looking for traces of water, so there's that.
Oh, it just takes forever to get the ball rolling on a new mission. The mars missions are/were already in the pipe, so that's what we're doing for the near future. Good 4-5 years just planning the idea for the mission, gathering a core science team willing to prove that it's a worthwhile mission without any funding yet, applying for heavily limited funding and scheduling, then actually designing and making a craft. Takes a while.
One also must consider the public outreach potential of the mission. Mars? Great pictures, captures the imagination, people actually know it exists. Our assorted icy moons? Real small, pretty bland to look at, obscure. Water's nice and all, but we definitely known it's out there for a while, and the finer details bore people.
Also, most of the dedicated Enceladus missions I've heard considered involve sample gathering and preferably return from those gysers, and that's a tough problem. They're intermittent, we don't have a firm handle on when they do show up, and we're not even sure what it'd be like to fly through one or even near one.
We'll go there, it's to tempting a target not to. We just got some on-going projects that need to get done first.
posted by neonrev at 12:49 PM on April 8, 2015
Oh, it just takes forever to get the ball rolling on a new mission. The mars missions are/were already in the pipe, so that's what we're doing for the near future. Good 4-5 years just planning the idea for the mission, gathering a core science team willing to prove that it's a worthwhile mission without any funding yet, applying for heavily limited funding and scheduling, then actually designing and making a craft. Takes a while.
One also must consider the public outreach potential of the mission. Mars? Great pictures, captures the imagination, people actually know it exists. Our assorted icy moons? Real small, pretty bland to look at, obscure. Water's nice and all, but we definitely known it's out there for a while, and the finer details bore people.
Also, most of the dedicated Enceladus missions I've heard considered involve sample gathering and preferably return from those gysers, and that's a tough problem. They're intermittent, we don't have a firm handle on when they do show up, and we're not even sure what it'd be like to fly through one or even near one.
We'll go there, it's to tempting a target not to. We just got some on-going projects that need to get done first.
posted by neonrev at 12:49 PM on April 8, 2015
Say what you will about Newsweek's reporting... At least they scooped out other publications with ACTUAL PHOTOS OF ALIEN LIFE FORMS!
"Aliens Are Enormous, Science Suggests"*
I'm pretty confused though, because the photographic evidence published by Newsweek doesn't show particularly large aliens - they look like the underfed 'grey' aliens that are quite anorexic looking.
* By 'science' they mean a single paper written one person.
posted by el io at 1:22 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Aliens Are Enormous, Science Suggests"*
I'm pretty confused though, because the photographic evidence published by Newsweek doesn't show particularly large aliens - they look like the underfed 'grey' aliens that are quite anorexic looking.
* By 'science' they mean a single paper written one person.
posted by el io at 1:22 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Screw you guys. That paper's awesome because extrapolating form a single data point is always awesome.
posted by aubilenon at 1:28 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by aubilenon at 1:28 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, it just takes forever to get the ball rolling on a new mission
Yeah I know, I know. It's just that despite all my rage, I'm just an older carbon life form trapped in an Earth cage.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:58 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah I know, I know. It's just that despite all my rage, I'm just an older carbon life form trapped in an Earth cage.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:58 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Space Whale [tw*: TVTropes]
*time waster. What did you think I meant?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:06 PM on April 8, 2015
*time waster. What did you think I meant?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:06 PM on April 8, 2015
Brandon Blatcher, it's just that NASA has decided to focus on the Near Enemy instead of the Far Enemy.
posted by dhartung at 2:09 PM on April 8, 2015
posted by dhartung at 2:09 PM on April 8, 2015
Renoroc: "At least now there is no reason for The Visitors to plunder Gaia for liquid dihydrogen monoxide."
But they're our friends!
posted by Chrysostom at 2:18 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
But they're our friends!
posted by Chrysostom at 2:18 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
"And how can this be? For he is the Kwisatz Haderach!"
posted by lagomorphius at 2:20 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lagomorphius at 2:20 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty confused though, because the photographic evidence published by Newsweek doesn't show particularly large aliens - they look like the underfed 'grey' aliens that are quite anorexic looking.
You're assuming those are Earth trees. Those could be Godzilla sized grey men on Arboria.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:53 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're assuming those are Earth trees. Those could be Godzilla sized grey men on Arboria.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:53 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Man, it seems like lately we're finding evidence of water everywhere in the Solar System except California.
posted by webmutant at 3:11 PM on April 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by webmutant at 3:11 PM on April 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yeah I know, I know. It's just that despite all my rage, I'm just an older carbon life form trapped in an Earth cage.
Right, sorry, I just keep seeing either "Lazy NASA, why don't they get off their asses and build me a moon base." or "Corrupt NASA, taking our taxes and not doing shit with it." and I'm just pissy.
The earth cage is a pretty nice cage though, all things considered. Could be on Venus.
posted by neonrev at 3:35 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Right, sorry, I just keep seeing either "Lazy NASA, why don't they get off their asses and build me a moon base." or "Corrupt NASA, taking our taxes and not doing shit with it." and I'm just pissy.
The earth cage is a pretty nice cage though, all things considered. Could be on Venus.
posted by neonrev at 3:35 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it's interesting that we're not only finding water in more places, we're also finding different water systems in new places. It sounds like not only are we finding water, we're finding interesting chemicals in that water. A lot of the water evidence on mars, for example, suggests an incredibly salty and sulfur rich sort of water, that is more transient than water seems to be here, and that when it's there, it moves with great amounts of force in fairly limited time periods. We're finding water and ice that is much higher in Deuterium than we're used to, and in odd places too. We're finding small bodies with large amounts of water under their crusts.
We're not just learning abstract data about the solar system, we're not just learning more about how our planet was formed and how it works, we're expanding our understanding of where our planet stands in the sort of galactic spectrum of chemical, physical, and atmospheric conditions that we know can exist. We're starting to very seriously expand our base assumptions about what can be in a really interesting way.
It seems like an important point for an intelligent species, to begin to place their own planet and what they know about it into a broader scale of what planets can be and are, to extend their assumptions about how things work from the local to interplanetary, and then onward to the interstellar. It makes it very exciting to be alive and privileged enough to interact with this stuff. It's literally the heights of what humans can and do achieve, what we can know.
posted by neonrev at 3:35 PM on April 8, 2015
We're not just learning abstract data about the solar system, we're not just learning more about how our planet was formed and how it works, we're expanding our understanding of where our planet stands in the sort of galactic spectrum of chemical, physical, and atmospheric conditions that we know can exist. We're starting to very seriously expand our base assumptions about what can be in a really interesting way.
It seems like an important point for an intelligent species, to begin to place their own planet and what they know about it into a broader scale of what planets can be and are, to extend their assumptions about how things work from the local to interplanetary, and then onward to the interstellar. It makes it very exciting to be alive and privileged enough to interact with this stuff. It's literally the heights of what humans can and do achieve, what we can know.
posted by neonrev at 3:35 PM on April 8, 2015
It sounds like not only are we finding water, we're finding interesting chemicals in that water.
It's incredibly exciting to me. That there is way way more water Out There than once thought, and clouds of complex organic molecules all over the place (spaaace booooze! ok, it's methanol, but still) makes me feel that it's all that much more inevitable that we're going to find life of some form or other, and hopefully within my lifetime. Almost certainly not anything as complex as terrestrial plants or animals, but still.
I've spent most of my life being frustrated at how slowly after the lunar missions it's felt to me like we've been pushing out into the solar system, and it's only been in the last decade or so with our swarms of robots and space telescopes and so on that I've begun to feel like things are ramping up again. It is indeed an exciting time to be alive; I just wish I had a few more centuries to see what happens instead of only a few more decades.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:22 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's incredibly exciting to me. That there is way way more water Out There than once thought, and clouds of complex organic molecules all over the place (spaaace booooze! ok, it's methanol, but still) makes me feel that it's all that much more inevitable that we're going to find life of some form or other, and hopefully within my lifetime. Almost certainly not anything as complex as terrestrial plants or animals, but still.
I've spent most of my life being frustrated at how slowly after the lunar missions it's felt to me like we've been pushing out into the solar system, and it's only been in the last decade or so with our swarms of robots and space telescopes and so on that I've begun to feel like things are ramping up again. It is indeed an exciting time to be alive; I just wish I had a few more centuries to see what happens instead of only a few more decades.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:22 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, yeah, yeah we are going to find some peptides, some molecules, some monocellular things, right up 'til the great big aliens arrive, to give us our eviction notice, they already turned off California's water, and want to know why we didn't get the memo.
posted by Oyéah at 5:28 PM on April 8, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 5:28 PM on April 8, 2015
I had no idea I could use this reasoning, but it makes me regret not becoming a scientist: "it's hard to say without doing a much harder calculation".
I never knew that was a valid scientific approach. Now I feel like I botched all those undergraduate tests too.
posted by meinvt at 6:07 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I never knew that was a valid scientific approach. Now I feel like I botched all those undergraduate tests too.
posted by meinvt at 6:07 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
The earth cage is a pretty nice cage though, all things considered. Could be on Venus.
Then we'd be super strong, with large bodies. Or never existed, whatever.
The Earth cage is nice, but I long for photos, particularly with the better cameras we have these days, from the surface of Enceladus or the Titan's oceans. We've only known about Enceladus spouting water geysers since 2006, let's go already!
A Moonbase would be nice, but may not be practical.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:34 AM on April 9, 2015
Then we'd be super strong, with large bodies. Or never existed, whatever.
The Earth cage is nice, but I long for photos, particularly with the better cameras we have these days, from the surface of Enceladus or the Titan's oceans. We've only known about Enceladus spouting water geysers since 2006, let's go already!
A Moonbase would be nice, but may not be practical.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:34 AM on April 9, 2015
I've spent most of my life being frustrated at how slowly after the lunar missions it's felt to me like we've been pushing out into the solar system, and it's only been in the last decade or so with our swarms of robots and space telescopes and so on that I've begun to feel like things are ramping up again.
Really?
Seriously?
posted by agregoli at 7:23 AM on April 9, 2015
Really?
Seriously?
posted by agregoli at 7:23 AM on April 9, 2015
Yeah, seriously. Jupiter and Saturn have a ridiculous number of Moons, but we've sent probes to only a few. Sure, Cassini's been kicking butt in orbit around Saturn for over a decade, but it just wets the appetite.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:42 AM on April 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:42 AM on April 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you look at our space exploration acheivements on a shoestring budget and don't feel amazed, I doubt anything would impress you.
posted by agregoli at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2015
posted by agregoli at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2015
Oh, I am amazed, just want more! Happiness is multiple space probes and rovers.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:28 AM on April 9, 2015
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:28 AM on April 9, 2015
Well yeah, who doesn't want more...if we'd skipped all the war spending we'd definitely have found evidence of life ready.
posted by agregoli at 8:34 AM on April 9, 2015
posted by agregoli at 8:34 AM on April 9, 2015
it just wets the appetite.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:42 AM
Ha!
posted by hummalabubbala at 12:50 PM on April 9, 2015
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:42 AM
Ha!
posted by hummalabubbala at 12:50 PM on April 9, 2015
Yes, both really and seriously.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:04 PM on April 9, 2015
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:04 PM on April 9, 2015
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