"The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open."
April 13, 2015 5:18 AM Subscribe
Günter Grass, German Novelist and Social Critic, Dies at 87 [New York Times]
Related:
Günter Grass, The Art of Fiction No. 124 [Paris Review]
The Life and Work of Norman Mailer and Günter Grass: Castle in the Forest & Peeling the Onion (2007) [New York Public Library] [YouTube]
'The Nobel Prize Doesn't Inhibit Me in My Writing' [SPIEGEL] [Part 1] [Part 2] [Part 3] [Part 4]
The Odious Musings of Gunter Grass [New Republic]
Günter Grass, the German novelist, social critic and Nobel Prize winner whom many called his country’s moral conscience but who stunned Europe when he revealed in 2006 that he had been a member of the Waffen-SS during World War II, died on Monday. He was 87.Previously.
Related:
Günter Grass, The Art of Fiction No. 124 [Paris Review]
The Life and Work of Norman Mailer and Günter Grass: Castle in the Forest & Peeling the Onion (2007) [New York Public Library] [YouTube]
'The Nobel Prize Doesn't Inhibit Me in My Writing' [SPIEGEL] [Part 1] [Part 2] [Part 3] [Part 4]
The Odious Musings of Gunter Grass [New Republic]
His novel, the Flounder, was probably the first doorstop-sized novel I both read from cover to cover AND loved without reservation.
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posted by jonp72 at 6:14 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
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posted by jonp72 at 6:14 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
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I had the exact same experience with the Flounder.
posted by ocular shenanigans at 6:20 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had the exact same experience with the Flounder.
posted by ocular shenanigans at 6:20 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
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Die Blechtrommel was the first "real" book I ever read from start to finish in German, and it always stayed with me. Coincidentally this was right before the Waffen-SS revelations came out. 2006 was a very Grassy year. Perhaps this is silly, but I thought that, if anything, it elevated his moral stature to know that the atrocities he fought so hard to keep in our memories and to keep from happening again were ones he may have, at the foolish and unformed age of 17, participated in. It's sad to see his generation dying out, and worrying. What will happen when their memories of that era are finally gone, and all we have is our media transmutations of them?
posted by dis_integration at 6:21 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Die Blechtrommel was the first "real" book I ever read from start to finish in German, and it always stayed with me. Coincidentally this was right before the Waffen-SS revelations came out. 2006 was a very Grassy year. Perhaps this is silly, but I thought that, if anything, it elevated his moral stature to know that the atrocities he fought so hard to keep in our memories and to keep from happening again were ones he may have, at the foolish and unformed age of 17, participated in. It's sad to see his generation dying out, and worrying. What will happen when their memories of that era are finally gone, and all we have is our media transmutations of them?
posted by dis_integration at 6:21 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh nooooo. Oh. Oh, this is sad. Every time I read his work, I sort of think of him sitting there somewhere, being. His voice is so alive and present. No no no, I don't want him to be dead.
posted by Frowner at 6:21 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 6:21 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I read The Tin Drum/Die Blechtrommel for the first time this year. Astonishing, subversive, challenging, full of rage—just like Grass.
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posted by mynameisluka at 6:22 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by mynameisluka at 6:22 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by daniel_charms at 6:55 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by daniel_charms at 6:55 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by The Michael The at 7:05 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by The Michael The at 7:05 AM on April 13, 2015
From the article: After the Berlin Wall was breached in 1989, Mr. Grass argued against German unification on the ground that a people responsible for the Holocaust had forfeited the right to live together in one nation. He suggested that East and West Germany remain separate for a time and then join a loose confederation of German-speaking states.
He was certainly a great novelist, but he sure did spout a lot of nonsense, like that above. Essentially, he argued that Germans don't have the right to live in one unified Germany, because they need to be punished for what they did in WWII. And "confederation of German-speaking states"? What did the Swiss and the Austrians think about that idea?
Oh, and the quote above came out decades before he admitted to having been a member of the Waffen-SS.
So Germany did lose a great novelist (here's a . for that), but they did not lose a moral conscience or anything like that.
posted by sour cream at 7:16 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
He was certainly a great novelist, but he sure did spout a lot of nonsense, like that above. Essentially, he argued that Germans don't have the right to live in one unified Germany, because they need to be punished for what they did in WWII. And "confederation of German-speaking states"? What did the Swiss and the Austrians think about that idea?
Oh, and the quote above came out decades before he admitted to having been a member of the Waffen-SS.
So Germany did lose a great novelist (here's a . for that), but they did not lose a moral conscience or anything like that.
posted by sour cream at 7:16 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
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posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 7:24 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 7:24 AM on April 13, 2015
Mentioned in the Times and New Republic articles: in 2012, a poem of his was published called "What Must Be Said" which basically said Israel is as much of a threat to international peace as Iran, and said that Germans should no longer feel hamstrung by the Holocaust.
The poem provoked outrage in Germany, Israel and beyond. In part because of its content, and partially because for 60 years Grass had hid the fact that he had formerly served in the Nazi Waffen SS. Before coming clean about his past, Grass had made similar statements regarding what he saw as Germany's need to come to terms with the Holocaust. Israeli politicians and pundits said serving in the SS disqualified him from criticizing their country.
Some said the poem was antisemitic. Others disagreed. Israel's embassy in Berlin came out swinging, noting that it is "a European tradition" to accuse Jews before Passover of ritual murder. (Original in German)
For his part, Grass said he didn't intend to attack Israel in general but the Netanyahu government. Didn't matter: Israel barred the Nobel laureate from entry. Grass said that action reminded him of the East German Stasi. But for better or for worse, the incident provoked deeper discussions.
posted by zarq at 7:30 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
The poem provoked outrage in Germany, Israel and beyond. In part because of its content, and partially because for 60 years Grass had hid the fact that he had formerly served in the Nazi Waffen SS. Before coming clean about his past, Grass had made similar statements regarding what he saw as Germany's need to come to terms with the Holocaust. Israeli politicians and pundits said serving in the SS disqualified him from criticizing their country.
Some said the poem was antisemitic. Others disagreed. Israel's embassy in Berlin came out swinging, noting that it is "a European tradition" to accuse Jews before Passover of ritual murder. (Original in German)
For his part, Grass said he didn't intend to attack Israel in general but the Netanyahu government. Didn't matter: Israel barred the Nobel laureate from entry. Grass said that action reminded him of the East German Stasi. But for better or for worse, the incident provoked deeper discussions.
posted by zarq at 7:30 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Essentially, he argued that Germans don't have the right to live in one unified Germany, because they need to be punished for what they did in WWII.
You make it sound like this is prima facie ridiculous. It's not. And as to the confederation of German-speaking states, that's basically what Germany was until Bismarck unified the German empire in the 1860s. Grass is saying: you Germans don't deserve the Empire you built, you very quickly abused it and brought it to ruin within about 2 generations, why should you get it back? I don't know if that's something I agree with, but it's not a nonsense thought.
posted by dis_integration at 7:34 AM on April 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
You make it sound like this is prima facie ridiculous. It's not. And as to the confederation of German-speaking states, that's basically what Germany was until Bismarck unified the German empire in the 1860s. Grass is saying: you Germans don't deserve the Empire you built, you very quickly abused it and brought it to ruin within about 2 generations, why should you get it back? I don't know if that's something I agree with, but it's not a nonsense thought.
posted by dis_integration at 7:34 AM on April 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
Grass' politics within Germany seemed terribly local, but his work, esp. the aforementioned Flounder made epic the domestic in ways that never left me.
posted by PinkMoose at 7:52 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by PinkMoose at 7:52 AM on April 13, 2015
Previously on the Waffen-SS admission. Great writer, fallible human.
posted by languagehat at 7:52 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 7:52 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
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posted by St. Sorryass at 8:24 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by St. Sorryass at 8:24 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by lalochezia at 8:32 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by lalochezia at 8:32 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by Mister Bijou at 8:38 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:38 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:56 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:56 AM on April 13, 2015
Grass is saying: you Germans don't deserve the Empire you built, you very quickly abused it and brought it to ruin within about 2 generations, why should you get it back? I don't know if that's something I agree with, but it's not a nonsense thought.
I have two problems with this: First, it insinuates that there is some distinct German characteristic that spells trouble if Germany becomes "too big", whatever that means. Not only has recent history shown that this is wrong, but all this "the Germans are like this", "the Israelis are like that" also seems borderline racist to me.
Secondly, the entire concept ("the people responsible for the Holocaust have forfeited the right to live in one unified country") is based on making today's Germans, hardly any of which were even alive during WWII responsible for the sins of their ancestors. This concept of hereditary sin is not only a core tenet of Christianity (as far as I know, it is largely unknown in Judaism and Islam), but it was also one of the main justifications for the persecution of Jews in Europe. I'm not saying that this is anywhere near the same level, but the entire argument seems problematic to me.
Anyway, the Germans certainly didn't need Grass as a moral conscience, and fortunately, hardly any of them paid much attention to his political ramblings.
posted by sour cream at 9:27 AM on April 13, 2015
I have two problems with this: First, it insinuates that there is some distinct German characteristic that spells trouble if Germany becomes "too big", whatever that means. Not only has recent history shown that this is wrong, but all this "the Germans are like this", "the Israelis are like that" also seems borderline racist to me.
Secondly, the entire concept ("the people responsible for the Holocaust have forfeited the right to live in one unified country") is based on making today's Germans, hardly any of which were even alive during WWII responsible for the sins of their ancestors. This concept of hereditary sin is not only a core tenet of Christianity (as far as I know, it is largely unknown in Judaism and Islam), but it was also one of the main justifications for the persecution of Jews in Europe. I'm not saying that this is anywhere near the same level, but the entire argument seems problematic to me.
Anyway, the Germans certainly didn't need Grass as a moral conscience, and fortunately, hardly any of them paid much attention to his political ramblings.
posted by sour cream at 9:27 AM on April 13, 2015
“Someone who has 500 friends, has no friends...” — Günter Grass on Facebook
posted by Fizz at 9:44 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by Fizz at 9:44 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by benito.strauss at 10:55 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by benito.strauss at 10:55 AM on April 13, 2015
Günter Grass Obituary: Farewell to Germany's Towering Literary Figure
posted by bukvich at 11:29 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by bukvich at 11:29 AM on April 13, 2015
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posted by Button-down sock at 11:53 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by Button-down sock at 11:53 AM on April 13, 2015
I liked this part:
In 1959, the regional government in Bremen refused to grant Grass the Bremen literature prize on the grounds of blasphemy and obscenity, while an attempt was made in 1961 to put the book on the index of Germany's Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons. By 1963, a total of 24 criminal charges had been brought against him, albeit all of them unsuccessfully. In 1965, when Grass gave a speech in the conservative Christian Democrat Union (CDU) stronghold of Cloppenburg in support of future chancellor Willy Brandt's election campaign, the public held up posters calling him a communist and pelted him with eggs and tomatoes so that he needed police protection to finish.
posted by bukvich at 2:58 PM on April 13, 2015
In 1959, the regional government in Bremen refused to grant Grass the Bremen literature prize on the grounds of blasphemy and obscenity, while an attempt was made in 1961 to put the book on the index of Germany's Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons. By 1963, a total of 24 criminal charges had been brought against him, albeit all of them unsuccessfully. In 1965, when Grass gave a speech in the conservative Christian Democrat Union (CDU) stronghold of Cloppenburg in support of future chancellor Willy Brandt's election campaign, the public held up posters calling him a communist and pelted him with eggs and tomatoes so that he needed police protection to finish.
posted by bukvich at 2:58 PM on April 13, 2015
His final legacy will remain mixed due to his late admission of his Waffen SS membership -- a thing that had it been common knowledge his entire career might not have been such a thing --- but I never found his writing morally ambiguous at all. He was, to me, a towering literary figure, one of the century's greats, & his work was, at the time, important work. The Times obituary covers this better than I could.
He was profoundly, hugely influential on my young mind when I read Dog Years for the first time at age 18. I've read it at least thrice more & it will be, alongside Moby Dick & Under The Volcano, one of my three favorite books for the rest of my life. I went on to read the Tin Drum in short order, & pretty much the rest of his catalog, though the Rat was just weird.
I think we've lost a great & important, and sadly, conflicted man.
You tell. No, you. Or You. Should the actor begin? (...)
May he rest in peace.
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posted by Devils Rancher at 6:09 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
He was profoundly, hugely influential on my young mind when I read Dog Years for the first time at age 18. I've read it at least thrice more & it will be, alongside Moby Dick & Under The Volcano, one of my three favorite books for the rest of my life. I went on to read the Tin Drum in short order, & pretty much the rest of his catalog, though the Rat was just weird.
I think we've lost a great & important, and sadly, conflicted man.
You tell. No, you. Or You. Should the actor begin? (...)
May he rest in peace.
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posted by Devils Rancher at 6:09 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would also like to thank Ralph Manheim for the not simple task of rendering Grass' works into English, without whom I might not have known his work at all, or understood & appreciated it.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:17 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:17 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I have two problems with this: First, it insinuates that there is some distinct German characteristic that spells trouble if Germany becomes "too big", whatever that means. Not only has recent history shown that this is wrong, but all this "the Germans are like this", "the Israelis are like that" also seems borderline racist to me.
West Germans asked themselves how they would change culturally and politically — specifically, if their country would get "too big", with echoes of what that meant from their country's WWII exploits — when voting on reunification with the former East Germany. The political science term Sonderweg is relevant here, if you're generally curious about the subject.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:16 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
West Germans asked themselves how they would change culturally and politically — specifically, if their country would get "too big", with echoes of what that meant from their country's WWII exploits — when voting on reunification with the former East Germany. The political science term Sonderweg is relevant here, if you're generally curious about the subject.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:16 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The problem with "he argued that Germans don't have the right to live in one unified Germany, because they need to be punished for what they did in WWII" is not whether or not it's nonsense, it's that it's not actually the claim.
The claim is that it's potentially dangerous to have a unified germany. It's nothing at all to do with "deservedness". It's to do with risk.
That's probably still a dubious claim, but please, let's not conflate it with a desire to punish.
posted by lodurr at 2:57 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The claim is that it's potentially dangerous to have a unified germany. It's nothing at all to do with "deservedness". It's to do with risk.
That's probably still a dubious claim, but please, let's not conflate it with a desire to punish.
posted by lodurr at 2:57 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by Cash4Lead at 5:48 AM on April 13, 2015