That's 1 for "guilt", 271 for "great"!
February 18, 2002 5:13 PM   Subscribe

That's 1 for "guilt", 271 for "great"! At a company's site devoted to "Decoding The Emotions Driving Consumer Buying Behavior," Steve Ballmer's speeches are "decoded" as an example of how to sell. Is this an example of useful knowlegde used for evil purposes?
posted by victors (14 comments total)
 
Not to mention I'd be more inspired to trust their services if they spelled Ballmer and Plutchik correctly on their site.
posted by victors at 5:15 PM on February 18, 2002


They missed "developers."
posted by modofo at 5:57 PM on February 18, 2002


It smells like marketing snake oil to me.

Their terrible prose sets my teeth on edge, but I might still be convinced they were on to something had I not seen this.

The methods are simplistic, the conclusions trite and obvious.

I don't think we have anything to fear from these not-so-hidden persuaders.

In fact now that I think about it, the original Vance Packard whistle blowing featured a bunch of Freudian analysis which looks laughable today. I don't think what's on offer here is any better. Fnord.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:39 PM on February 18, 2002


I think you meant this

here's a link to some classic Packard too. (anybody care to take a stab at the hip-hop version of: "The middle classes RESIDE in a HOME . . use the LAVATORY, the VERANDA, DEN or RUMPUS ROOM")

and yes, I too can't spell ('knowlegde") but I'm not trying to scam a living by selling a word counting parser I wrote as a grad project.
posted by victors at 6:56 PM on February 18, 2002


When, exactly, did selling become evil?

As someone who actually works in sales, I always thought I was an important part of a free-enterprise economy, but I guess I'm actually one of Satan's minions.

Salespeople, myself included, use all kinds of psychological techniques(although few use ones as convoluted as those described above), but were not twisting anyones arms, and most of us are simply trying to scratch out an honest living. Some of us actually believe in the products we sell, and consider introducing them to people to be a good thing.

I am a salesman, my father is a salesman, and my grandfather(after his days working the docks were through)opened a small shop, where I imagine he engaged in a lot of salesmanship. Call me corny, but practiced ethically, it's an honorable way to feed a family.

What's an activist after all, but a salesman for a cause?
posted by jonmc at 7:32 PM on February 18, 2002


If selling was wrong, wouldn't buying be wrong as well?
posted by Darke at 8:57 PM on February 18, 2002


When, exactly, did selling become evil?

Well this "service" is hardly something to be believed in, which, I thought, may be where at least some irony may lie. Bringing in the moral element (the word "evil") was done somewhat tounge-in-cheek (I mean, did you look at the picture linked to it after all?). I say "somewhat" because...

most of us are simply trying to scratch out an honest living

With all deference to you, your father and your grandfather I just don't believe the 'most' in your statement above as related to 'honest'. I worked for over 10 years in public relations and sales -- based on nothing more than empirical data there is no friggin way 'most' people in that business are totally honest about what they sell (and I include activists in that, although I'm not sure what that has to do with anything). Just the opposite. A truly honest PR or salesman was an incredibly rare thing in my experience.

The fact that in a nearly purist capalistic society, salesmanship that covers up the flaws and overstates the values of products and services is fully expected and rewarded doesn't make it 'honest.' Just accepted.

To say 'honesty' is undervalued in Western culture is an understatement. Salesmanship, on the other hand, by any means necessary, honest or not, is the way to success.
posted by victors at 9:00 PM on February 18, 2002


If selling was wrong, wouldn't buying be wrong as well?

um, yea, probably.
posted by victors at 9:03 PM on February 18, 2002


I worked for over 10 years in public relations and sales -- based on nothing more than empirical data there is no friggin way 'most' people in that business are totally honest about what they sell (and I include activists in that, although I'm not sure what that has to do with anything).

Is anyone 100% honest in any occupation, victors?

I do make every effort to be honest at my job for two reasons.

1. I like to sleep at night.

2. Being dishonest at the retail level, where I work, would come back and bite me on the ass very quickly, so it's not worth the trouble.

Salesman who do practice the way you describe are a disgrace to the profession and I've met some of 'em and they generally speaking got what was coming to them.

The activist remark, BTW, was just my way of saying that everyone's a salesman at least some of the time.
posted by jonmc at 9:12 PM on February 18, 2002


Is anyone 100% honest in any occupation, victors?

The only reason I know of to ask this kind of rhetorical, generalized question in a conversation like this is an attempt to rationalize what you know is wrong.

I do make every effort to be honest at my job...

Cool.

Meanwhile, we must live on different planets. I stand by my characterisations based on my experience, both retail and corporate. I wish more of the people I discovered along my journey in that world were like you but the vast majority of them made a living at diplomatically, gracefully, avoiding the real truth about their products and services. Some of the really good ones applied this talent to their whole profession. The best ones of those got promoted.

everyone's a salesman at least some of the time.

er, no. You do what you have to do to sleep at night, but leave me out of it. Deal?
posted by victors at 9:38 PM on February 18, 2002


Meanwhile, we must live on different planets.

Maybe. I work at the name-tag wearing level in a major corporation. I honestly have no idea what goes on in the Corridors of Power, but I'm sure a lot of it isn't too savory. So, point taken, there.

What I meant by "everyone's a salesman" is that even artists promote their work by displaying it in galleries or putting out on record labels, and promotion is a form of salesmanship, make no mistake.

Some people are born with artistic talent, others with great scientific minds. I wish I was one of them, but instead I was blessed with the modest gift of being persuasive. I sometimes use it to tell people about a great band I like or a terrific book I've read. Sometimes, I use it here to try and get people to consider an opinion they've never considered before. For a living, I use it to sell products and services that I honestly believe are good ones.

I wish more of the people I discovered along my journey in that world were like you...

I dunno about the boys in the boardroom, but down here at the clock-puncin' level most of 'em are...come visit and you'll see.
posted by jonmc at 9:51 PM on February 18, 2002


Hey, jonmc, please... try and stay focused, it's getting late and I'm only getting more imbibed, not the other way around... ;-)

I never said anything about activists, artists, members of the board, fisherman, housewives, golfers, criminals, rabbis, The Beatles, Elvis, yo mama, Django, the DMV, or anybody else but salesmen. People who are paid according to the sales they make. People who are rewarded for the number of units sold, contracts signed, hours booked, whatever. I do include in that group what is commonly referred as 'marketing' because it's just sales without the individual unit sales, closing the deal itself.

I think it's great that you are proud of your work and your profession. But I have to say: I wish you would stop implying that I don't know what the sales profession is. I was a salesman and I also worked in public relations. I punched a clock. I've met your collegues. I visited. I saw. I'm sorry you don't like what I experienced. I'm sorry you seem to be having trouble accepting these basic truths about my experience.

I honestly hope you don't take this personally (although I fully understand your desire to be defensive about it, given your family history): Bullshit and bullshit tactics (e.g. diverting the customers attention from what they actually want toward your product/service, trying to sound more authoritative than the customer, trying to convince the customer that whatever their own tactile experience was in the field, they never have really tasted the product in the "right way") is the path to success. Honesty, in a pure form, with the customer would get you fired from almost any and all sales and marketing job.

Do you have any in blue?
posted by victors at 10:19 PM on February 18, 2002


Victor, first of all..

**looks at bottle of Brooklyn Brewery Monster Ale Barleywine in front of him**

...I'm probably as "imbibed" as you are at this point. I'll just say that our experiences have been different. Obviously, there are a lot of dishonest and sleazy folks in sales and marketing(although most of the sleaze has been in marketing in my experience), but there's also a lotta decent guys trying to carve out a living in a very rough world.

I've met your collegues.

With all due respect, you haven't ; the guys I work with, I'd trust with my life savings. And quite frankly, our immediate boss-an eminently honorable gentleman-so detests the hassles and bullshit that come with the practices you mention, that we know it's not worth the aggravation.

I honestly hope you don't take this personally

Relax, I don't. I've worked in other sales enviornments where it was just as sleazy as you describe. Along with my gift for persuasion, I was blessed with a conscience as well, so I got out.
Us honest salespeople may be a vanishing breed, but rest assured we are out here.

Do you have any in blue?

Ummm...how about a nice taupe? ;)
posted by jonmc at 10:39 PM on February 18, 2002


I'll take a dozen of those.... damn, you are good!
posted by victors at 10:57 PM on February 18, 2002


« Older Today the EU imposed sanctions on Zimbabwe.   |   Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments