If You Guys Are So Sensitive, You Should Leave
April 23, 2015 6:15 PM   Subscribe

Native Actors Walk off Set of Adam Sandler Netflix Movie After Insults to Women and Elders. "The actors, who were primarily from the Navajo nation, left the set after the satirical western’s script repeatedly insulted native women and elders and grossly misrepresented Apache culture."

Bonus Netflix spokesperson update:
"The movie has ridiculous in the title for a reason: because it is ridiculous. It is a broad satire of Western movies and the stereotypes they popularized, featuring a diverse cast that is not only part of — but in on — the joke."
(via)
posted by chococat (118 comments total) 21 users marked this as a favorite
 
I don't know how Adam Sandler could be so tone-deaf.
posted by Renoroc at 6:16 PM on April 23, 2015 [12 favorites]


Wow, this shit sounds pretty impressively racist--I'm kind of surprised none of the female characters have "squaw" in their names anywhere. Good on the Navajo actors for walking out.
posted by sciatrix at 6:19 PM on April 23, 2015 [9 favorites]


And if the "diverse cast" was supposed to be in on the joke, perhaps Netflix and Sandler could have checked in to see if they were actually laughing?
posted by sciatrix at 6:20 PM on April 23, 2015 [49 favorites]


I'm assuming the person who wrote that netflix statement is super white.

You can be hilarious and satirical without shitting all over people/cultures.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:20 PM on April 23, 2015 [29 favorites]


The examples of disrespect included Native women’s names such as Beaver’s Breath and No Bra, an actress portraying an Apache woman squatting and urinating while smoking a peace pipe, and feathers inappropriately positioned on a teepee.

The movie will star Adam Sandler, Nick Nolte, Steve Buscemi, Dan Aykroyd, Jon Lovitz and Vanilla Ice.

I really don't know what to say here.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:20 PM on April 23, 2015 [29 favorites]


In fact, I think satire in this case would be far more accurate by pointing out that the white characters in this movie are assholes.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:22 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Netflix is just salty because all their 'best' 'jokes' were 'ruined.'
posted by chainlinkspiral at 6:22 PM on April 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Right now they're probably on the phone with Dan Synder, looking for PR advice.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:25 PM on April 23, 2015 [7 favorites]


Dear Netflix:

Less Adam Sandler, more Squirrel Girl.

Love and kisses,
RakDaddy
posted by RakDaddy at 6:27 PM on April 23, 2015 [16 favorites]


A dozen cast members quit in protest of racist and insensitive depictions of minorities?

This is Rob Schneider's chance to really shine.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:27 PM on April 23, 2015 [21 favorites]


You can be hilarious and satirical without shitting all over people/cultures.

Maybe Adam Sandler should give Mel Brooks a call. Meanwhile, why do people keep giving Sandler money to make movies? Have any of his films in recent memory not been relative flops?
posted by fuse theorem at 6:27 PM on April 23, 2015 [9 favorites]


I don't know how Adam Sandler could be so tone-deaf.


I dunno. When I think of Sandler, "subtle" and "sensitive" don't exactly come to mind.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:29 PM on April 23, 2015 [7 favorites]


Don't be a dick, then this would not happen. Fuck Adam Sandler.
posted by rankfreudlite at 6:32 PM on April 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


I dunno. When I think of Sandler, "subtle" and "sensitive" don't exactly come to mind.

Yeah, but that's a far cry from your first thought being "massively racist".
posted by kafziel at 6:33 PM on April 23, 2015 [6 favorites]


Mel Brooks' portrayal of Native Americans as Jews was sensitive and transgressive. He was punching up, while finding common ground.

Also, Squirrel Girl's not in the budget.

Unless it's animated.

Please?

posted by Slap*Happy at 6:34 PM on April 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Translation of Netflix speak: It's so satirical a movies that you can't actually tell it from a racist one.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:35 PM on April 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Guys. It's okay, Sandler still has literally tens of millions of dollars for some reason, it'll be okay.
posted by The Whelk at 6:37 PM on April 23, 2015 [7 favorites]


When I saw the link was to Indian Country News I did a google news search, hoping the story had legs in the wider media. It appears to have been picked up by Slate, the Chicago Trib and WaPo, which is all to the good.

Anyway, it's not like you can't make a funny movie about Native Americans, but it helps if you actually involve them.
posted by George_Spiggott at 6:37 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]




Former rapper Vanilla Ice continues his acting appearances by playing famed writer Mark Twain
posted by phaedon at 6:44 PM on April 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


I'm too sensitive to ever give Adam Sandler my money.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:44 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh it's Adam Sandler of course this movie is vile and racist. Everyone move along nothing to see here.

Sorry I don't buy that. I'm glad people are finally calling assholes, even successful ones, on their shit.

The casual racism of Hollywood is out of control. It's infused into almost every film.
posted by chaz at 6:45 PM on April 23, 2015 [20 favorites]


Anyway, it's not like you can't make a funny movie about Native Americans, but it helps if you actually involve them.

Smoke Signals is pretty funny at times, although I don't think I'd call it a comedy per se. (I think it had way too much else to say, to be honest.) Also everyone should watch it, it's really great. Not remotely in the same time zone as an Adam Sandler movie, though... hm.
posted by sciatrix at 6:45 PM on April 23, 2015 [16 favorites]


The casual racism of Hollywood is out of control. It's infused into almost every film.

Out of control? When was it ever in control?
posted by blucevalo at 6:50 PM on April 23, 2015


The movie will star Adam Sandler, Nick Nolte, Steve Buscemi, Dan Aykroyd, Jon Lovitz and Vanilla Ice.

I really don't know what to say here.


"Well, that'll be easy to boycott."
posted by Sys Rq at 6:53 PM on April 23, 2015 [36 favorites]


RakDaddy: "Dear Netflix:

Less Adam Sandler, more Squirrel Girl.

Love and kisses,
RakDaddy
"

Seconded!


Can we get a third?
posted by Samizdata at 6:55 PM on April 23, 2015


Squirrel Girl gets six seasons and a movie.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:59 PM on April 23, 2015 [12 favorites]


Meanwhile, why do people keep giving Sandler money to make movies?

This is indeed a baffling mystery. It's especially mysterious given that most of the people giving him money to make movies are white, and one would think white people would be extremely uncomfortable about the fact that the guy who is pretty much the platonic essence of whiteness is so lame (the racism is a separate issue, because when have white people ever been actionably uncomfortable, as a bloc, with racism?).
posted by busted_crayons at 7:00 PM on April 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


ryanshepard: "The movie will star Adam Sandler, Nick Nolte, Steve Buscemi, Dan Aykroyd, Jon Lovitz and Vanilla Ice.
I really don't know what to say here.
"

I actually once got really good advice about this sort of situation, where people are saying that the artistic material in question is offensive. He urged me to "Stop! Collaborate, and LISTEN."

It's pretty good advice, it's too bad there was literally no one on the set who could tell Sandler that.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:00 PM on April 23, 2015 [49 favorites]


Given the tone of most Adam Sandler movies, the only surpise was that this didn't happen sooner.

Meanwhile, why do people keep giving Sandler money to make movies? Have any of his films in recent memory not been relative flops?

Red Letter Media's expose on the economics of Adam Sandler movies was so excoriating that it was reposted on Ebert's blog.
posted by clarknova at 7:01 PM on April 23, 2015 [27 favorites]


sciatrix: If you liked Smoke Signals check out Sherman Alexie's The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:03 PM on April 23, 2015 [7 favorites]


Please, oh almighty Zeus, don't let Sandler do that "voice" thing he's *still* doing.
posted by Mr. Crowley at 7:07 PM on April 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


I'm no Sandler fan.

But the reason something like Sandler's Hannukah Song can work as a piece of comedy (YMMV), is that it's someone using ethnic humour in a way that's bringing other people into the joke. It's comedy that brings people together without shitting on people, but still manages to turn on an ethnically-based joke.

This...thing that is this racist abomination of a film...just, yeah, what Renoroc said.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:08 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Years ago I saw a native american produced short film about white people's ideas about native americans, with special emphasis on bullshit about how your great-grandmother was a Cherokee princess.

It was actually funny as hell. Unlike pretty much any joke I can recall white people making about native americans and certainly funnier than the crap described in this story.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:09 PM on April 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


Oh, Netflix. Why won't you let me love you? Between this and Fuller House, you are making it very hard.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:10 PM on April 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Fuller House

A wonderful 80's sitcom about the hectic life of Buckminster-Fuller?

*clicks link*

Aw, dangit.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:15 PM on April 23, 2015 [37 favorites]


This is a feature-length BBC documentary, but it is similarly hilarious AND really, really interesting. It's Rich Hall's Re-Inventing the Indian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmP3gGj9yjM
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 7:18 PM on April 23, 2015 [28 favorites]


Is Netflix seriously saying, "we're not laughing at you, we're laughing with you" to a bunch of people storming out on the project, not laughing? Jesus.
posted by obfuscation at 7:23 PM on April 23, 2015 [22 favorites]


Have to recommend the Dead Dog Cafe Comedy Hour, and this post on Tom King here, in particular his The Truth About Stories: A Native Narrative.

Oh, Netflix. Why won't you let me love you? Between this and the Fuller House Full House reboot, you are making it very hard.

A Netflix recommendation for the, uh, archival Full House series showed up in my inbox one day. Our Netflix account is in my name. I had to raise this question with Mr. Conspiracy: "What the fuck have you been watching that's caused this recommendation to be made to me?"

Out of morbid curiosity, we watched the first ten minutes of the first episode. How the fuck did adults get paid to make that shit? No, seriously.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:23 PM on April 23, 2015 [10 favorites]


Maybe the cool kids are watching it ironically.


Seriously, I tried to get my S.O. to watch The Hardy Boys Nancy Drew Mysteries with me the other day. Nothing doing, apparently. Not even Shaun Cassidy could make that happen.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:29 PM on April 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Indian Country Today Network's own list of 11 essential Native American films to watch on Netflix

And while problematic for its “noble savage”-tendencies, Terrence Malick’s The New World has somewhat nuanced portrayals of the mid-atlantic tribes encountered by Captain John Smith and company in the 1600s.

I did like Punch Drunk Love, though
posted by Queen of Spreadable Fats at 7:30 PM on April 23, 2015 [31 favorites]


I'm too sensitive to ever give Adam Sandler my money.

Me, too. At least he gave these actors a chance to prove they have class and stand up for what they believe in.

It's great when you can find some new heroes to make your day.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 7:32 PM on April 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Paging JJ Abrams: maybe these guys are available to start recording the Diné bizaad soundtrack for the Episode VII Blu-ray.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 7:48 PM on April 23, 2015


"How bad could it be?"

"Beaver breath. No bra."

"...I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
posted by effugas at 7:51 PM on April 23, 2015 [15 favorites]


So, in positive Netflix news, they stealth released the HD not yet released bluray remasters of the first season of The X-Files, and they're glorious.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 7:51 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Good on them to walk out.

Another film to check out is Qallunaat! Why White People Are Funny [previously].

Another Netflix-only series that at times sunk to casual racism was Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, despite the defenders who say the humor is really "meta" (but who I think are just trying to defend an otherwise funny show written by funny people). It is more difficult to criticize than a low-brow Sandler comedy for this reason, but all the more reason to expect it to know better.
posted by ageispolis at 7:59 PM on April 23, 2015 [12 favorites]


Reel Injun and A Good Day to Die are both pretty incredible.
posted by ChuraChura at 8:00 PM on April 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


Another Netflix-only series that at times sunk to casual racism was Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, despite the defenders who say the humor is really "meta", and who are really just trying to defend an otherwise funny show written by funny people.
Yep. And again with Native Americans as targets.
posted by sweetkid at 8:00 PM on April 23, 2015 [8 favorites]


Rhymes for Young Ghouls is on Netflix & has gotten some good reviews. I will watch it soon enough, though.

I've liked Daredevil and I'm totally on board with the Jessica Jones show, but those are Marvel, so that's different. I've mostly been pretty iffy about Netflix's produced stuff overall (I've liked some of the standup specials. I was kind of ambivalent on Kimmy because ... of the aforementioned weird racist aspects). But Netflix want money so it's lowest common denominator. And I think it will just get worse.

I certainly pay money to companies I'm not into completely overall -- I feel the same about Netflix. My $8 a month feels like such a little amount when it comes to what I get out of it vs. what they get from it (cheap entertainment vs. funding terrible things) but I can also see a day where Netflix isn't quite worth it anymore. And I think things like this go into the file. I don't want any Adam Sandler movies -- I really don't want this one. I hope this is a wakeup call and it changes things.

But I'm probably being naive. We'll probably just get this stupid movie and I'll just put this into the "well, mark against Netflix" column until it fills up.
posted by darksong at 8:08 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


We'll probably just get this stupid movie and I'll just put this into the "well, mark against Netflix" column until it fills up.

You can add the Richie Rich reboot, which is apparently a "streamable hate crime," to that column.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:16 PM on April 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


Another Netflix-only series that at times sunk to casual racism was Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, despite the defenders who say the humor is really "meta", and who are really just trying to defend an otherwise funny show written by funny people.

Yep. And again with Native Americans as targets.


Unbreakable Kimmy Schmitt was actually developed for and produced by NBC, then sold to Netflix - most of the episodes were written to comply with NBC's broadcast standards.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:17 PM on April 23, 2015


I wonder how far you can be into a project like this before it's impossible to shut it down as a bad idea.

Probably that time has passed and this thing will limp to completion, but still if a project ever needed killing this one does.

(oh and Amazon should shut down whatever the fuck it is they have Woody Allen doing. Fuck's sake.)
posted by Artw at 8:25 PM on April 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Like the Apache or Navajo need or deserve this. They are such fine people.
posted by Oyéah at 8:27 PM on April 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Another Netflix-only series that at times sunk to casual racism was Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, despite the defenders who say the humor is really "meta", and who are really just trying to defend an otherwise funny show written by funny people.

Yep. And again with Native Americans as targets.

Unbreakable Kimmy Schmitt was actually developed for and produced by NBC, then sold to Netflix - most of the episodes were written to comply with NBC's broadcast standards.


true but it was still casually racist, so?
posted by sweetkid at 8:28 PM on April 23, 2015


Ugggggh. I think we've all blocked the Richie Rich series out of our knowledge. Including Netflix itself.

Netflix has a deal with Scholastic. I have fingers crossed they'll pull from Scholastic's good properties (I have a few ideas) but ... seeing how this has gone previously ... well.

I just feel like Netflix has such a great opportunity to do something amazing with its original series. But I know I'll be disappointed.
posted by darksong at 8:37 PM on April 23, 2015


I once worked with a Native American network engineer in Oklahoma. He was an immensely charming, quick witted guy, and he had slurs for white people I had never heard before or since.

1) They were legit funny. "Ghost Rider", "Your mother sounds Cherokee", "Yankee peddler", "Chemo Wasabi" (oh, man, the way he pronounced it), and when he didn't believe my diagnosis of the problem, "Got any more beads for me, Dutchman?" I can't even remember all of them.

2) He was bringing me in, rather than pushing me away. I will never, in my life, use any kind of slur for a Native American/Indian (depending on their self-identity.) I understood, right then, the disproportionate power slurs had. I'll never forget it.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:38 PM on April 23, 2015 [74 favorites]


It doesn't count as a joke if it nobody finds it funny.

yeah but alas a whole fucking lot of white america finds this shit HILARIOUS, like knee-slappingly glorious. i've heard more totally casual commonplace racism towards native americans than any other group, from a more diverse population than for any other group, my entire fucking life.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:40 PM on April 23, 2015 [11 favorites]


A Western movie satire steps wrong in its portrayal of minorities.

Now I really, really, really want to see MetaFilter's reaction at a viewing of the Mel Brooks classic, "Blazing Saddles."

I think it would kill -- literally kill -- dozens of you.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:51 PM on April 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Now I really, really, really want to see MetaFilter's reaction at a viewing of the Mel Brooks classic, "Blazing Saddles."

You can make the argument that Mel Brooks has proven himself a more incisive and sensitive satirist than Adam Sandler - but yeah, actually, Blazing Saddles is the only movie my Anishinaabe mother ever walked out of.
posted by northernish at 8:56 PM on April 23, 2015 [6 favorites]


CPB, Blazing Saddles was referenced upthread as a successful example of how to be both satirical/funny and respectful.

Not a comedy, but if you ever get a change to see Atanarjuat, do. It's breathtaking.
posted by jokeefe at 8:56 PM on April 23, 2015 [10 favorites]


I think it would kill -- literally kill -- dozens of you.

The target and subject of the humor in that scene and most of the movie is the clueless racist white people.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:56 PM on April 23, 2015 [14 favorites]


Which doesn't mean Brooks succeeds at it or is some nuanced satirist, necessarily.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:59 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Another Netflix-only series that at times sunk to casual racism was Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, despite the defenders who say the humor is really "meta" (but who I think are just trying to defend an otherwise funny show written by funny people).

I honestly think the important shared connection here is SNL, not Netflix. Tina Fey is worlds beyond Sandler in terms of talent and humor, but sometimes her projects will go for this broad, lazy, low hanging fruit kind of othering humor and it always sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison to the rest of the writing - and it really is exactly the kind of stuff that gets a cheap laugh on a half-assed lesser SNL sketch. Tina Fey does it occasionally and it's jarring (especially jarring considering how one of her standard 30 Rock beats was pointing her jokes at the racist things well-meaning white liberals still continue to do), Will Ferrell and Mike Meyers each have an entire movie under their belts of nothing but this kind of thing (Casa de mi Padre and Love Guru), and Adam Sandler has taken it and run like hell with it.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:01 PM on April 23, 2015 [12 favorites]


Now I really, really, really want to see MetaFilter's reaction at a viewing of the Mel Brooks classic, "Blazing Saddles."

Which part? Where the black man reforms two hardened super-criminals into superheroes and upends a corrupt state government to save the town in the face of intense racism?

Or when Mel Brooks empathizes (his own goddamn self, no schlock character actors) and correlates his experience as an American Jew with a plains Indian?

LAST YEAR, Columbus is undone. There are now as many Native Americans/Indians in the Americas as there were before 1492. Mel is still alive. Someone ask him about that, and then watch him grin.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:03 PM on April 23, 2015 [25 favorites]


true but it was still casually racist, so?

Blame where blame is due.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:04 PM on April 23, 2015


Is Netflix seriously saying, "we're not laughing at you, we're laughing with you" to a bunch of people storming out on the project, not laughing? Jesus.

no you don't get it it's IRONIC racism we KNOW it's racism so that makes it ok

/shudder
posted by KathrynT at 9:06 PM on April 23, 2015


fuse theorem: “Meanwhile, why do people keep giving Sandler money to make movies? Have any of his films in recent memory not been relative flops?”
Here's a number for you: $2,412,523,617. That's Sandler's lifetime total domestic gross.

While critics and cinéastes seem to hate them, Sandler's movies still make money. Lots of it. The Sandler movies one might like — Funny People say, or Punch-Drunk Love — didn't make much money. The turds — The Longest Yard, I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry, You Don't Mess with the Zohan, even goddamned Jack and Jill — all made more than $100 million.

Even his latest stinker, Blended, cost $40 million to make and has grossed $126,794,610. Studios will keep making them as long as they can triple their money, no matter how many people think his movies are terrible.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:38 PM on April 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's because people are idiots, hth
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 9:40 PM on April 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


I thought Mel Brooks was making a joke about how in so many of the classic mid-century westerns, the "Indians" were played by Jews, Syrians, Lebanese, and just about any swarthy ethnic actor EXCEPT actual Native Americans. As mentioned upthread, representation of Native Americans in the movies is one the subjects Rich Hall addresses.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:46 PM on April 23, 2015 [7 favorites]


All of the Indians I know think Kimmy Schmidt is hilarious (ESPECIALLY the Jackie Lynn backstory). I think it's mostly white people getting bent out of shape.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:36 PM on April 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Punch Drunk Love is fucking terrible as well, sorry everyone.
posted by Artw at 10:38 PM on April 23, 2015 [10 favorites]


didn't anyone read the script ahead of time? Wasn't there a sign-off from the cultural advisor already? I don't know what it is but something's off here.

I think there was probably some faith that at least part of the script would be redeemed by the delivery, and/or people convinced themselves it wasn't going to be that bad, after all, they'd gotten the job, I guess it must be hard for actors to say no. Sounds like it all looked and felt very different on the day. The consultant, I mean, it's not like no one's ever hired a consultant to make it look like they were doing what they were supposed to be doing.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:54 PM on April 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


Artw: “Punch Drunk Love is fucking terrible as well, sorry everyone.”
I've actually never seen it. I have heard people say they like it though. Unlike Click, which should be sold only by prescription.
posted by ob1quixote at 11:49 PM on April 23, 2015


All of the Indians I know think Kimmy Schmidt is hilarious (ESPECIALLY the Jackie Lynn backstory). I think it's mostly white people getting bent out of shape.


I sincerely hope you know all 2.9 million of them in the United States then. The point, really, is that it is 2015, POC can and should write their own stories, their own jokes, and represent themselves on screen.
posted by peripathetic at 12:28 AM on April 24, 2015 [7 favorites]


A Western movie satire steps wrong in its portrayal of minorities.

Now I really, really, really want to see MetaFilter's reaction at a viewing of the Mel Brooks classic, "Blazing Saddles."

I think it would kill -- literally kill yt -- dozens of you.
--Cool Papa Bell

Richard Pryor was one of the writers for Blazing Saddles.

They took out one of his jokes:
Madeline Kahn's character is with Cleavon Little's character (he's African American). The lights go out and after a while she says something like "Oh my gosh! It's so big! What they say is true!"

He responds "Why are you licking my elbow?"
posted by eye of newt at 12:37 AM on April 24, 2015 [9 favorites]


It's really unfair that Native Americans get to walk away from Adam Sandler movies, when the rest of us have to suffer through them.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:50 AM on April 24, 2015 [12 favorites]


Getting tired of the word 'satire' being dragged out to defend every racist/sexist/etc joke which has rightly offended people. The definition of satire is not "half-arsed attempt at humour".

It seems very Dunning-Kruger: people who don't know what satire is and assume no-one else does either, so it's safe to use it as an excuse when no-one laughs at their jokes.
posted by harriet vane at 1:46 AM on April 24, 2015 [17 favorites]


This is indeed a baffling mystery. It's especially mysterious given that most of the people giving him money to make movies are white, and one would think white people would be extremely uncomfortable about the fact that the guy who is pretty much the platonic essence of whiteness is so lame (the racism is a separate issue, because when have white people ever been actionably uncomfortable, as a bloc, with racism?).


The platonic essence of whiteness? Within the lifetime of his parents, they wouldn't have been considered "fully" white.
posted by atrazine at 2:04 AM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


i sort of wished the extras would have stayed they left right before daredevil was supposed to enter and furiously beat adam sandler about the head face neck shoulders chest arms hands waist thighs buttocks hips knees shins legs feet toes tongue pride sense of professionalism comedic timing and soul

it would have been great

adam would cry out for help but the punches would keep coming until nothing but a bloody lump of meat and failed oscar hopes remained and then kevin james would come out and says something about punkd and then the beatings would resume anew
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:19 AM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


I sincerely hope you know all 2.9 million of them in the United States then.

I'm still trying to figure out what you find particularly racist about The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. I just finished the first season so it's fresh in my mind, and I don't recall any representation of Jacqueline's parents that seemed exaggerated, disrespectful, or demeaning.

The point, really, is that it is 2015, POC can and should write their own stories, their own jokes, and represent themselves on screen.

No argument here, which doesn't mean others can't include them in their own stories and jokes, and it doesn't make any representation not 100% controlled by POC racist.
posted by echocollate at 5:00 AM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


Wasn't there a sign-off from the cultural advisor already?

The cultural adviser was one of those who walked out, and the rejection of his suggestions was a major reason that all of them walked. So no, there was not a sign-off.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:24 AM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


I actually once got really good advice about this sort of situation, where people are saying that the artistic material in question is offensive. He urged me yt to "Stop! Collaborate, and LISTEN."

On set, sure - but I guess I meant, "How am I, as a moviegoer, expected to respond to something so breathtaking and multifocal in its stupidity?"
posted by ryanshepard at 6:48 AM on April 24, 2015


When it comes to native humour, perhaps Sandler should take a note from the 1491s, a native sketch comedy group who use cultural and political satire. Personal favs are Singing Lessons, Slapping Medicine Man, and The Indian Store. Now that's some funny shit.
posted by KathyK at 7:24 AM on April 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


All of the Indians I know think Kimmy Schmidt is hilarious (ESPECIALLY the Jackie Lynn backstory). I think it's mostly white people getting bent out of shape.

there are indian people in this thread right now saying they find it offensive.
posted by poffin boffin at 7:36 AM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


Seconding the recommendation of Atanarjuat, although not a comedy, it is the #1 Canadian Film of all time!

at least according to the tiff people, but what do they know?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:48 AM on April 24, 2015


I remember years ago when someone played me a tape of the Chanukah Song, and I was like ... wow, this is not funny. Like not funny at all. And the guy's voice made me want to punch him in the mouth. And I have never punched anyone as an adult and I think just about everything is funny, so yeah.
posted by freecellwizard at 7:50 AM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


there are indian people in this thread right now saying they find it offensive.

And there are Indian people in this thread right now who think it's hilarious, as I was counting myself in the "all of the Indians I know" statement.

Criss cross applesauce. Ha! My mom and I nearly fell off the couch laughing.
posted by elsietheeel at 7:53 AM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


there are indian people in this thread right now saying they find it offensive.

What about the representation do they find offensive? I don't see any of the typical stereotypes or tropes, in dress or speech. I worked for a Native American welfare org for five years, attended numerous conferences, interacted with the communities, and I'm having trouble identifying what's objectionable.

All of that said, even finding something objectionable—as a matter of personal taste or experience—doesn't make it racist. This word loses all meaning without distinction. If it's now just a shorthand for "something we don't like where race or ethnicity is incidentally involved," then I fear we've gotten to a bad point.
posted by echocollate at 8:00 AM on April 24, 2015 [6 favorites]


Sandler's humor is simply repetition of racial stereotypes and encouraging the audience to laugh because aren't stereotypes funny. It's more than "pushing away" when it's done on a movie screen in front of millions of people and telling them it's funny. It's blatant perpetuation for money and Adam Sandler should be ashamed of himself.
posted by Revvy at 9:10 AM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think it could have worked a lot better if they got a light skinned/passing native woman to play Jackie instead of someone who is Polish. The line complaining about Mexicans playing native roles is a lot more uncomfortable when you consider that you're watching a white person play a native role.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:10 AM on April 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's blatant perpetuation for money and Adam Sandler should be ashamed of himself.

I'd say something like "I'm sure he's ashamed all the way to the bank" but by now it's failry obvious that he is a bank.
posted by clarknova at 9:28 AM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think it could have worked a lot better if they got a light skinned/passing native woman to play Jackie instead of someone who is Polish.

The visual incongruity is part of the humor. Jackie is fundamentally superficial, and the misguided lengths to which she goes to discard her heritage for a posh Anglo look is underscored by having her be played by a Polish actress. The choice is by far the most Arrested Developmentesque thing about the series, and I think it works.
posted by echocollate at 9:35 AM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I read about this on Facebook yesterday. The Facebook post I read was from a Native actor who stayed on set. He pointed out that while the jokes on the Sandler movie set are offensive, instances like the beer throwing incident in South Dakota is more important than a dumb movie.

However, the walkoff is still important, because it's bringing racism against Native people into the spotlight.
posted by BooneTheCowboyToy at 9:35 AM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


For me (and speaking personally -- and fair cop, I'm a white dude), the Jackie/Backstory part seemed all right -- it really seemed that Jackie's cluelessness was the joke. That, even as an Indian herself, she bought into the White Man version of Indians in pop culture.

(The bit I thought was kinda "oh" was Dong -- it just seemed like a really lame, hacky borderline-racist joke. The idea that Kimmy's name also means 'penis' -- is that true, btw? -- is a somewhat clever twist on it, but it still just seemed kinda... "ha ha! other people have funny names!")

But too -- I think that might be the weird Low-Hanging Fruit SNL thing that jason_steakums mentioned.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 9:41 AM on April 24, 2015


I think it could have worked a lot better if they got a light skinned/passing native woman to play Jackie instead of someone who is Polish.

Well, it's not like they auditioned for the role of Jacqueline and Jane Krakowski just happened to be picked over a gaggle of other actresses. She was on-board from the get-go, and the character was obviously written and tailored specifically for her talents. Her backstory is funny (or not; opinions vary) only because it defies expectations, due in large part to Krakowski's quite evident whiteness. I think it would only be truly "problematic" (ugh) if her parents were also being played by white actors, and/or portrayed in a highly stereotypical manner. But they are both Native American actors, and from the episodes I've seen, they aren't indulging in the typical Hollywood redface behavior. They're weird, but everyone in the Kimmyverse is a big weirdo.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:51 AM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Like the Apache or Navajo need or deserve this. They are such fine people.

This feels like sort of an odd thing to say. I hope there is not an ethnic group you think aren't fine people and do deserve it.
posted by naoko at 10:00 AM on April 24, 2015 [8 favorites]


Perhaps it's been mentioned already, but for me the key point is that there is an overall lack of positive representations of Native Americans / First Peoples in media. Again, Native American on screen, hooray! .. except we get this awful dreck..
posted by Captain Chesapeake at 10:25 AM on April 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


I don't know how Adam Sandler could be so tone-deaf.

Are you fucking kidding?

Also, its been posted before, but: Adam Sandlers House of Cruelty.
posted by lkc at 11:07 AM on April 24, 2015




yay PoC putting their foot down. this is only related bc of that aspect, but jessica huang on her accent in fresh off the boat: it's not a party trick.

the amount of work and level of detail that she describes in getting it that way, i can't imagine a show run by white folks would even attempt to make that distinction. this is the difference when we do our own shit vs when even well-meaning outsiders do it with little or no input from the people being presented onscreen.

just trying to get things to be Not Racist, which is an incredibly low bar (though you wouldn't know it, to listen to the whinging), is such a struggle. like Captain Chesapeake said, and as Slap*Happy demonstrated earlier with that anecdote, it doesn't even approach what it looks like to be able to represent yourself, with love, understanding your own culture and struggles, trying to tell your specific story. "look at how racist these white people are!!" is not (should not be) the primary function of PoC, and going to such lengths for so little is just a waste of my time these days.

similarly "#notallwhitepeople dealing with PoC are going to end up creating something racist"-- that's a pathetically low bar that doesn't even deal with the majority of stuff that does end up being fucking racist, i'm looking for some better shit than that.
posted by twist my arm at 11:21 AM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


When it comes to native humour, perhaps Sandler should take a note from the 1491s, a native sketch comedy group who use cultural and political satire.

I am grateful to Adam Sandler and his shitty, shitty movies. If he were less racist, people might not have walked off the set, and I might never have found out about the 1491s who are fucking HILARIOUS.
posted by looli at 11:32 AM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


But the reason something like Sandler's Hannukah Song can work as a piece of comedy (YMMV), is that it's someone using ethnic humour in a way that's bringing other people into the joke. It's comedy that brings people together without shitting on people, but still manages to turn on an ethnically-based joke.


Right, Adam Sandler is also Jewish, so its a song about how great he is because so many other great people were Jewish. His other "ethnic humor" is just him pissing on people who aren't as great as he is.

And the Jewish thing doesn't particularly matter, the point is that he only celebrates what he is and is an asshole to everyone else. Just like Seth Macfarlane, they are both lazy hacks shoveling out racist bullshit, acting like its "edgy" and cashing in.
posted by lkc at 12:35 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I've read Netflix execs bragging that 'we know you better than you know yourselves' [citation needed but I swear I've seen it]

I'm wondering if the algorithm is failing them or if they've strayed too far from the algorithm. House of Cards came from the math "remake of acclaimed BBC show + Kevin Spacey + political thriller". I bet an Adam Sandler remake of King Ralph could be, if not good, popular, but giving him an advance to produce 4 movies for them seems like a bad idea.

I feel like *most* movies that do well, do well because people like going to movie theaters and most of the movies that are in theaters these days kinda suck but there's an audience that wants to see something. I don't get it but I don't get people going to Cubs games either.

Adam Sandler is a familiar, comforting presence with a reliable, consistent humor and a decent, if diminishing record, of good enough movies that I'll still watch if they pop up on a Sunday afternoon (The Wedding Singer, Big Daddy, maybe Billy Madison for me) but I think he benefits from the pitching process.
posted by elr at 12:46 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I read about this on Facebook yesterday. The Facebook post I read was from a Native actor who stayed on set. He pointed out that while the jokes on the Sandler movie set are offensive, instances like the beer throwing incident in South Dakota is more important than a dumb movie.

I see his point, but I disagree, millions of people will see this "dumb movie" and see an entire race of people as buffoons. I am not saying that Adam Sandler fans lack critical thinking skills. Oh wait, yes I am.
posted by Duffington at 1:03 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I thought Netflix's revival of Full House was called Bojack Horseman (and was far better than the original).
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:22 PM on April 24, 2015 [12 favorites]


Thanks everybody for the great links above to recommended Native American films.

This is going back aways, but I loved Powwow Highway with Gary Farmer and A Martinez.
posted by marsha56 at 1:33 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]




Duffington's link is a doozy. Holy shit, it's worse than imagined.

There's also this: We Talked to a Native American Actress Who Walked Off Adam Sandler's Movie

Sandler should be forced to read this quote from her 100 times until it sinks in:

"I take this very personally because my little brother committed suicide when he was 17 because of racism," Young said. "In his suicide note, he said, 'It's hard to stay alive when you're brown and gifted.' I want to take a stand for native and indigenous youth. I want them to see their people portrayed as something better."
posted by naju at 2:56 PM on April 24, 2015 [10 favorites]


Really kind of crushed to find out that Steve Buscemi is involved in this piece of shit.
posted by chococat at 3:28 PM on April 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


"At one point early on I was going in to makeup and being bronzed, and the wardrobe was not Apache traditional wear," Young explained. "I'm full-blooded Navajo. I was a little bit confused as to why I was being bronzed. I'm light-skinned. Maybe they wanted me to look darker."

that's always a good sign.

In one scene, a Native American women is passed out on the ground. A group of white men pours liquor on her, and she wakes up and starts dancing. "In Indian country, we're battling that issue right now," Young said. "It's 2.5 times more likely for an indigenous woman to be raped or sexually assaulted. Movies like this perpetuate that and just add to the stereotypes of our native women."

um
posted by twist my arm at 3:31 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Really kind of crushed to find out that Steve Buscemi is involved in this piece of shit.

I was doubly crushed when I found out he's playing the role of Daniel Snyder.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:34 PM on April 24, 2015


"The Navajo and Apache are such fine people"-

I worked for them for a year. They are some people I know, and like.

They don't deserve to be mocked, they don't deserve to have their history distorted, they shouldn't get a good paying job offer that hinges on betraying their tribe, or their values.
posted by Oyéah at 4:12 PM on April 24, 2015


Westerns were already just about gone as a genre when Blazing Saddles was made, but the memory was still fresh with most adult viewers of the time. What's the point of a satire of westerns now? The object of a satire has to have some currency, I think.
posted by QuietDesperation at 4:40 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Ugh, I'm tired of Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell. Both need to retire their tired man child schtick and grow up. Or just retire altogether. Jesus.
posted by discopolo at 7:27 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I just. I can't. I think my brain is broken. I just cannot understand how anyone anywhere found this man funny. I mean, I've heard people say that certain music is only truly appreciated under the influence of certain naturally grown plants.

But what would it take to make Adam Sandler funny? Glue sniffing? Antifreeze drinking?Coprophagia?

The only question in my mind is why it took so long for the honest truth about what a horrible person he was to come to public attention. But then, it did take 40 years or so for us to actually get to know the real Bill Cosby.
posted by cytherea at 1:03 AM on April 25, 2015


It doesn't count as a joke if it nobody finds it funny

I disagree. The new Doctor Who, Star Wars films after the Empire Strikes Back, the Transformers films, pretty much any main stream major network sitcom or drama, etc. All complete jokes that are rather sad, depressing, and certainly not funny. Bad being unfathomably popular while good and thoughtful not so is a model that continues on, though we are fortunate that the niche markets that have developed over the years have given us some of the best television we've ever seen. Great movies have always been around, though not necessarily popular.

An ex girlfriend's family seemed to love Sandler films. They would laugh uncontrollably during them and wonder why I wouldn't be. I never attempted nor cared to find out why they found them funny and I didn't (I know why I didn't). It wasn't worth the effort. Clearly Netflix sees gold in the Frat market. It would be fascinating to see what is actually popular in their catalogue but that information is not released.

Netflix is a little different then network television broadcasters in that they have a full range of quality, from shit to brilliant but I would never expect them to be consistently a quality producer. They wouldn't survive.
posted by juiceCake at 10:43 AM on April 25, 2015


The Waterboy and Happy Gilmore. This is what Sandler could be and should be. Punches up. Includes rather than excludes. Makes shallow characters deep, and stereotypes too strange or lovably complex to be comfortable for the audience. He legitimately loves the heroes he's mocking, and knows with laser intensity why and how we should hate the villains.

The rest of his opus has been legit terrible, save for Punch Drunk Love. You get the impression he does his best work when taking chances, and the only time he takes chances in his own movies is when there's sports involved.

The Adam Sandler baseball movie will be amazing in ways this movie was damning. I hope he clues in quick.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:47 PM on April 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


they shouldn't get a good paying job offer that hinges on betraying their tribe, or their values.

To be fair, that's pretty much everyone's working conditions under capitalism.
posted by clarknova at 12:27 AM on April 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


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