I hear you can turn left on a red, too.
May 5, 2015 1:36 AM Subscribe
"In some quarters, the scorn that New Yorkers once piled on Los Angeles is now sounding like envy." (SLNYT) "Indeed, Los Angeles has seemingly become the flight fantasy of choice for the likes of Ms. Turner, who insists that anything good she was giving up in overpriced, overstressed Brooklyn is already in place on the booming east side of Los Angeles: the in-season Zambian coffee outposts, the galleries, the vintage clothing boutiques."
Enjoy the earthquakes, hipsters.
posted by Optamystic at 2:37 AM on May 5, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by Optamystic at 2:37 AM on May 5, 2015 [17 favorites]
Replace LA with "Literally anywhere other than Silicom Valley" and this article is less inane. If you're not an engineer at a startup NYC is somewhat unlivable right now.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:21 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:21 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Like this winter I was looking at pictures of 20ft of snow in somebody's back yard in Boston going "They have a YARD?"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:23 AM on May 5, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:23 AM on May 5, 2015 [18 favorites]
Ah the "here's where transplants to NYC are re-transplanting themselves" article, right on time.
I wish nothing but the best to the new residents ofHudson Valley Los Angeles. Let me know when you're settled so I can visit.
posted by griphus at 3:30 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wish nothing but the best to the new residents of
posted by griphus at 3:30 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
pff Coasters
posted by edgeways at 3:50 AM on May 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by edgeways at 3:50 AM on May 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
For $600 less than the $1,850 a month Ms. Turner was paying for her grim junior one-bedroom in Greenpoint, she she shares a a charming two-bedroom 1920s bungalow [...]
The writer sounds a b-bit breathless about this b-bungalow. Or is that a New Yorker's shiver?
posted by pracowity at 3:50 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
The writer sounds a b-bit breathless about this b-bungalow. Or is that a New Yorker's shiver?
posted by pracowity at 3:50 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
That was a short reign; last week we were the new Brooklyn where all the bohemians were moving. Our Ace Hotel doesn't even open until autumn and now everyone is going to LA. Who's it going to be next week? St. Louis? Denver? Saskatchewan? I can't wait to find out.
Is it just possible that these stories are total anecdotal bullshit?
posted by octothorpe at 4:00 AM on May 5, 2015 [24 favorites]
Is it just possible that these stories are total anecdotal bullshit?
posted by octothorpe at 4:00 AM on May 5, 2015 [24 favorites]
Pfft. Water supplies are so five years ago, darling, we're moving west!
posted by delfin at 4:59 AM on May 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by delfin at 4:59 AM on May 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
Here is where I quote the late, great Waylon Jennings:
"Too ugly for LA/Too dumb for New York."
Meanwhile everyone sick of LA who can afford it flees to Austin, Seattle, and Portland.
Although as a person who hangs out with young wannabe New Yorkers as part of my job, I can't count the number of times I've heard "everyone is moving to Detroit" or some such this year.
Something is going on with Detroit.
posted by spitbull at 5:14 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Too ugly for LA/Too dumb for New York."
Meanwhile everyone sick of LA who can afford it flees to Austin, Seattle, and Portland.
Although as a person who hangs out with young wannabe New Yorkers as part of my job, I can't count the number of times I've heard "everyone is moving to Detroit" or some such this year.
Something is going on with Detroit.
posted by spitbull at 5:14 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Who's it going to be next week? St. Louis?
Hah! That'll never happen. Forest Park is nice though.
posted by dis_integration at 5:16 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hah! That'll never happen. Forest Park is nice though.
posted by dis_integration at 5:16 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I see have the fake trend article from the NYT for May.
posted by KaizenSoze at 5:19 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by KaizenSoze at 5:19 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
The correction at the bottom explains why the article seems to have been written with a sentence wowing over saving a mere third of her rent after moving in with a roommate:
An earlier version of this article incompletely described Christina Turner’s living arrangement in Los Angeles. She shares her bungalow with a roommate, she does not live alone.posted by nobody at 5:24 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
My sense of this piece is that it's a side-effect of growing income inequality. Didn't 'make it' in New York? Well where the hell else are you going to go? Have you seen what life is like for people in St. Louis? They don't even have Zambian coffee outposts! My favorite part is that she still has to settle for roommates in LA, which is still not a cheap city by any means. Have a college degree? Well, the middle class no longer exists, so your best bet is to go wherever you can live off the tablescraps of the superrich. I guess Brooklyn is just too expensive for that now?
posted by dis_integration at 5:27 AM on May 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 5:27 AM on May 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'd say a good part of it is that the sort of people the NYT listen to and who can just pack up and relocate also usually don't care for the parts of Brooklyn under Prospect Park.
posted by griphus at 5:48 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 5:48 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
pff Coasters
The most parochial people in the world, and utterly oblivious to it.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:56 AM on May 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
The most parochial people in the world, and utterly oblivious to it.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:56 AM on May 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
New York Times, May 1st 2015, Front page of Style:
Los Angeles and Its Booming Creative Class Lures New Yorkers
New York Times, May 1st 2015, Front page of Sunday Review:
The End of California?
Conicidence? I think not.
posted by donovan at 5:59 AM on May 5, 2015 [15 favorites]
Los Angeles and Its Booming Creative Class Lures New Yorkers
New York Times, May 1st 2015, Front page of Sunday Review:
The End of California?
Conicidence? I think not.
posted by donovan at 5:59 AM on May 5, 2015 [15 favorites]
Meanwhile everyone sick of LA who can afford it flees to Austin, Seattle, and Portland.
Where everybody who lives there is desperately looking for the next version of those places because those three citiesare already becoming have already become the next Los Angeleses.
And LA may seem cheap to a New York Times Style section reporter, but it sure ain't cheap to anyone who actually lives there.
posted by blucevalo at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Where everybody who lives there is desperately looking for the next version of those places because those three cities
And LA may seem cheap to a New York Times Style section reporter, but it sure ain't cheap to anyone who actually lives there.
posted by blucevalo at 6:02 AM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Of the two places, I would far rather live in LA than NYC, but really I'm happy to live in neither.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:06 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 6:06 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
> With that area’s scruffy bohemian spirit and laid-back mood, she thinks she had found the best of her New York life without the migraines. “It’s like grown-up version of Williamsburg,” Ms. Turner said, “without the gray cloud.”
Apparently the dream of the '90s is alive wherever you find it. In your heart, most of all.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:33 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Apparently the dream of the '90s is alive wherever you find it. In your heart, most of all.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:33 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Isn't California just about to become a Mad Max style wasteland?
posted by Artw at 6:35 AM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:35 AM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
“I couldn’t believe how collaborative everyone out here was,” Ms. Price said. “Want to shoot a music video? Just put up a Facebook message and within hours you’ll have 15 responses from incredibly talented, passionate people who want to work for free, because they believe in you and your art can afford to and have no choice.”
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:36 AM on May 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:36 AM on May 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Can I walk everywhere in LA? No? Not moving there.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on May 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on May 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
8.4 Million New Yorkers Suddenly Realize New York City A Horrible Place To Live
posted by schmod at 6:48 AM on May 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by schmod at 6:48 AM on May 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
It's funny how perfectly this article was timed for the outbreak of spring/summer in New York, where it has been glorious for about a week now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:50 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:50 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd say a good part of it is that the sort of people the NYT listen to and who can just pack up and relocate also usually don't care for the parts of Brooklyn under Prospect Park.
I know people who are getting priced out of Sunset Park right now. They're building a private school with $23K/yr tuition in Red Hook. South Brooklyn is not immune.
posted by phooky at 6:54 AM on May 5, 2015
I know people who are getting priced out of Sunset Park right now. They're building a private school with $23K/yr tuition in Red Hook. South Brooklyn is not immune.
posted by phooky at 6:54 AM on May 5, 2015
Thank god, get the fuck out.
posted by ReeMonster at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ReeMonster at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Alternate title: New Yorkers shocked to discover that wealthy 10-million-person metropolis with huge ethnic populations, massive entertainment industry, world famous art, top universities, and famously great weather actually has some decent cultural offerings.
I'm really tickled by the framing of LA in this piece - that what has changed here is, first and foremost, LA. Look, it's not that life in New York became untenable and we gave up. It's that you're finally good enough for us.
posted by mandanza at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2015 [15 favorites]
I'm really tickled by the framing of LA in this piece - that what has changed here is, first and foremost, LA. Look, it's not that life in New York became untenable and we gave up. It's that you're finally good enough for us.
posted by mandanza at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2015 [15 favorites]
I can't imagine any personal tragedy gruesome enough to make me move to LA, tho.
posted by poffin boffin at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 7:03 AM on May 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
This is just part of the tech industry borg assimilation of every desirable urban center in the USA.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:05 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:05 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
i hope no one tells them how great Minneapolis is.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 7:09 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 7:09 AM on May 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Can I walk everywhere in LA? No? Not moving there.
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
posted by griphus at 7:10 AM on May 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
posted by griphus at 7:10 AM on May 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
I always love the amazed tone of voice that the Times shows in articles like this, that there actually life and culture west of the Hudson River. It's bad enough when they're "discovering" smaller east coast cities but hilarious when they're talking about the second largest city in the country.
posted by octothorpe at 7:13 AM on May 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:13 AM on May 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
[Eyeroll] Brooklyn has always been just another suburb of Los Angeles.
posted by sexyrobot at 7:15 AM on May 5, 2015
posted by sexyrobot at 7:15 AM on May 5, 2015
i hope no one tells them how great Minneapolis is.
Rest easy. Anyone twitchy about the occasional NYC blizzard would never in a million years consider Minneapolis.
posted by aught at 7:19 AM on May 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
Rest easy. Anyone twitchy about the occasional NYC blizzard would never in a million years consider Minneapolis.
posted by aught at 7:19 AM on May 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
A quote from his hobo years wandering the country with Woody Guthrie, no doubt.
posted by aught at 7:21 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
A quote from his hobo years wandering the country with Woody Guthrie, no doubt.
posted by aught at 7:21 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
octothorpe: "I always love the amazed tone of voice that the Times shows in articles like this, that there actually life and culture west of the Hudson River."
Yeah, this sort of thing is nothing new to folks with family west of the Hudson. I gotta hand it to my ancestors who immigrated to the US in the late 19th century: they clearly figured out the east coast quickly[1] and got the fuck outta there.
[1] Or were on the run from the law; I'm not denying this one!
posted by barnacles at 7:28 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this sort of thing is nothing new to folks with family west of the Hudson. I gotta hand it to my ancestors who immigrated to the US in the late 19th century: they clearly figured out the east coast quickly[1] and got the fuck outta there.
[1] Or were on the run from the law; I'm not denying this one!
posted by barnacles at 7:28 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm visiting Detroit soon. Everyone sit tight, I'll report back.
posted by 1adam12 at 7:38 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 7:38 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now hold on for just a second,
"For $600 less than the $1,850 a month Ms. Turner was paying for her grim junior one-bedroom in Greenpoint, she she shares a a charming two-bedroom 1920s bungalow in Echo Park with a gated yard, cactuses, a barbecue, a separate work studio and a garage."
So she went from paying $1,850 for her own apartment to paying $1,250 for a room? And, on top of that she's probably now paying for a car which she probably wouldn't have needed in New York. Doesn't sound like a lot of savings.
posted by I-baLL at 7:42 AM on May 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
"For $600 less than the $1,850 a month Ms. Turner was paying for her grim junior one-bedroom in Greenpoint, she she shares a a charming two-bedroom 1920s bungalow in Echo Park with a gated yard, cactuses, a barbecue, a separate work studio and a garage."
So she went from paying $1,850 for her own apartment to paying $1,250 for a room? And, on top of that she's probably now paying for a car which she probably wouldn't have needed in New York. Doesn't sound like a lot of savings.
posted by I-baLL at 7:42 AM on May 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
So she went from paying $1,850 for her own apartment to paying $1,250 for a room? And, on top of that she's probably now paying for a car which she probably wouldn't have needed in New York. Doesn't sound like a lot of savings.
To be fair, "Junior 1" is NYC apartment-speak for a tiny studio with a large closet that somehow qualifies as a "bedroom", even if you can't lay down in it. So she's basically paying $1,250 to share a room in a space that would cost her 3000+$ to share a room in in NYC.
posted by dis_integration at 7:49 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
To be fair, "Junior 1" is NYC apartment-speak for a tiny studio with a large closet that somehow qualifies as a "bedroom", even if you can't lay down in it. So she's basically paying $1,250 to share a room in a space that would cost her 3000+$ to share a room in in NYC.
posted by dis_integration at 7:49 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I moved to LA after 18 years in NYC in February to be with my kid after refusing to do so (divorce) for three years. I moved from a nice 2BR in Ditmas Park into a house in Eagle Rock. The rent is more than the apartment I lived in was, but not that much more than the people moving in after me were paying. I didn't like this article at all and don't see it reflecting the experience I've had, even though it was also "good."
I work remotely for my NYC tech firm now, in a sunny room on the west coast. It is very different: I drive a lot even though I don't commute, but let me list the things that I've marveled at:
- I love it here. I really didn't expect to. It was the last thing that I thought would happen, even after visiting 30+ times. I really like it in East LA.
- I just flew to NYC for work. I drove to LAX lot C, parked, took a bus to the airport and caught a plane in 60 minutes and paid a lot less than NYC taxies would have cost. It was actually pleasant.
- Everyone is very, very nice out here. It is surreal, really.
- Driving is very sane, people are good drivers and there is very little of the asshole jockeying that NYC is known for. Traffic is often something, but it is civilized. This is definitely not true in NYC.
- There is nothing like the Food Coop. There are not very many restaurants that are as good as Roman's/Franny's/French Louie, etc in Brooklyn. The produce is amazing, though, and I have a nice kitchen for the first time in my life.
- Nature is so much more a part of my life. I drove to Big Sur, to the mountains, there are lizards and hummingbirds.
- I went to UCLA to have an operation and I literally cried at how wonderful a hospital it was. I've spent more time than I'd rather in several hospitals in Brooklyn and it was beyond night and day.
- I could buy a house within 20 miles of the city for $350k that is a nice house.
I think the quality of life is just better. Maybe I was burned out on NYC... my best friend and long time co-resident died last year and I'm sure that's part of it, but I live in a walkable (walk to 10+ restaurants, hiking trails, grocery store, yoga, etc) neighborhood, the people are very warm and nice, more room, a house and yard, so much less schlep (good riddance Q train) etc.
The only problem seems to be that there is a massive influx of people like me, raising the rents and pushing people out of the neighborhood.
But, yeah, good riddance NYC. I loved you, you saved my life, I had my kid there and lots of good times, but the last three years there were caustic and that's an anecdotal fact.
That said, if it were not for my kid and I could work remote anywhere I would have moved to Vermont.
posted by n9 at 7:54 AM on May 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
I work remotely for my NYC tech firm now, in a sunny room on the west coast. It is very different: I drive a lot even though I don't commute, but let me list the things that I've marveled at:
- I love it here. I really didn't expect to. It was the last thing that I thought would happen, even after visiting 30+ times. I really like it in East LA.
- I just flew to NYC for work. I drove to LAX lot C, parked, took a bus to the airport and caught a plane in 60 minutes and paid a lot less than NYC taxies would have cost. It was actually pleasant.
- Everyone is very, very nice out here. It is surreal, really.
- Driving is very sane, people are good drivers and there is very little of the asshole jockeying that NYC is known for. Traffic is often something, but it is civilized. This is definitely not true in NYC.
- There is nothing like the Food Coop. There are not very many restaurants that are as good as Roman's/Franny's/French Louie, etc in Brooklyn. The produce is amazing, though, and I have a nice kitchen for the first time in my life.
- Nature is so much more a part of my life. I drove to Big Sur, to the mountains, there are lizards and hummingbirds.
- I went to UCLA to have an operation and I literally cried at how wonderful a hospital it was. I've spent more time than I'd rather in several hospitals in Brooklyn and it was beyond night and day.
- I could buy a house within 20 miles of the city for $350k that is a nice house.
I think the quality of life is just better. Maybe I was burned out on NYC... my best friend and long time co-resident died last year and I'm sure that's part of it, but I live in a walkable (walk to 10+ restaurants, hiking trails, grocery store, yoga, etc) neighborhood, the people are very warm and nice, more room, a house and yard, so much less schlep (good riddance Q train) etc.
The only problem seems to be that there is a massive influx of people like me, raising the rents and pushing people out of the neighborhood.
But, yeah, good riddance NYC. I loved you, you saved my life, I had my kid there and lots of good times, but the last three years there were caustic and that's an anecdotal fact.
That said, if it were not for my kid and I could work remote anywhere I would have moved to Vermont.
posted by n9 at 7:54 AM on May 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I hate never being cold, having unlimited access to avocados, seeing the surf break every day, being able to hike in crazy mountains, and having year-round hummingbirds flitting around tropical plants. Definitely don't move here! You definitely cannot do a lot of things via public transit and there are definitely no neighborhoods that make sense without a car! The taco trucks are 100% overrated, who even likes tacos that much, definitely stay home!
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
That said, if it were not for my kid and I could work remote anywhere I would have moved to Vermont.
Well.. that says it all right there. (And I love Vermont.)
posted by ReeMonster at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2015
Well.. that says it all right there. (And I love Vermont.)
posted by ReeMonster at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2015
On reflection I think that the real discussion to have here is that with the rise of remote jobs (which is certainly the way of the future for more and more people) where will we choose to live? It sounds like the answer is not NYC, which is interesting. And I can vouch for that. Given the choice I would not move back even though I had a fine time there.
posted by n9 at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by n9 at 8:00 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
"To be fair, "Junior 1" is NYC apartment-speak for a tiny studio with a large closet that somehow qualifies as a "bedroom", even if you can't lay down in it. So she's basically paying $1,250 to share a room in a space that would cost her 3000+$ to share a room in in NYC."
Except that that just depends on which neighborhood you're in and how well you look. There are 1 bedroom apartments on St. Mark's Place going for $1900 a month and you can easily find $1800 a month 2 bedroom apartments in Washington Heights and Inwood if you want to stay in Manhattan.
Wait, I misread your comment as you said "a space that would cost her 3000+$ to share a room in in NYC". Where are you seeing $3000+ single room rents in NYC? That's definitely not average.
posted by I-baLL at 8:01 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Except that that just depends on which neighborhood you're in and how well you look. There are 1 bedroom apartments on St. Mark's Place going for $1900 a month and you can easily find $1800 a month 2 bedroom apartments in Washington Heights and Inwood if you want to stay in Manhattan.
Wait, I misread your comment as you said "a space that would cost her 3000+$ to share a room in in NYC". Where are you seeing $3000+ single room rents in NYC? That's definitely not average.
posted by I-baLL at 8:01 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Yeah, I hate never being cold, having unlimited access to avocados, seeing the surf break every day, being able to hike in crazy mountains, and having year-round hummingbirds flitting around tropical plants. Definitely don't move here! You definitely cannot do a lot of things via public transit and there are definitely no neighborhoods that make sense without a car! The taco trucks are 100% overrated, who even likes tacos that much, definitely stay home!"
Yeah, these are much better reasons for LA than rent methinks. Also Del Taco. I love Del Taco.
posted by I-baLL at 8:02 AM on May 5, 2015
Yeah, these are much better reasons for LA than rent methinks. Also Del Taco. I love Del Taco.
posted by I-baLL at 8:02 AM on May 5, 2015
Wait, I misread your comment as you said "a space that would cost her 3000+$ to share a room in in NYC". Where are you seeing $3000+ single room rents in NYC? That's definitely not average.
For $600 less than the $1,850 a month Ms. Turner was paying for her grim junior one-bedroom in Greenpoint, she she shares a a charming two-bedroom 1920s bungalow in Echo Park with a gated yard, cactuses, a barbecue, a separate work studio and a garage.
I read that as a reference to the price point for the whole bungalow/work space/parking package, but I could be wrong?
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:04 AM on May 5, 2015
For $600 less than the $1,850 a month Ms. Turner was paying for her grim junior one-bedroom in Greenpoint, she she shares a a charming two-bedroom 1920s bungalow in Echo Park with a gated yard, cactuses, a barbecue, a separate work studio and a garage.
I read that as a reference to the price point for the whole bungalow/work space/parking package, but I could be wrong?
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:04 AM on May 5, 2015
Rest easy. Anyone twitchy about the occasional NYC blizzard would never in a million years consider Minneapolis.
The difference in snowfall is not that huge ~10 inches a year. The difference in temperature in the winter is what keeps the weak willed away. ~20 degree difference on the low side in the chill months.
Really though, overall, the temperature difference is not all that great between the places.
posted by edgeways at 8:10 AM on May 5, 2015
The difference in snowfall is not that huge ~10 inches a year. The difference in temperature in the winter is what keeps the weak willed away. ~20 degree difference on the low side in the chill months.
Really though, overall, the temperature difference is not all that great between the places.
posted by edgeways at 8:10 AM on May 5, 2015
I moved back to Brooklyn from SF because I just missed New York constantly. I felt guilty, like I *should* like SF more, like I should be glad to be an hour from my parents instead of 6, like I should love our boat and the weather and the food and those are all great, but — man, I love Bushwick even tho it is dirty and doesn't have enough trees and I love the subway even tho the L is always falling apart and it smells like pee in the summer.
So I think people should try out some places and pick what they like best, but I am at least one data point in the column of "some people come back." Me and Annie Hall.
posted by dame at 8:20 AM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
So I think people should try out some places and pick what they like best, but I am at least one data point in the column of "some people come back." Me and Annie Hall.
posted by dame at 8:20 AM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think that the real discussion to have here is that with the rise of remote jobs (which is certainly the way of the future for more and more people) where will we choose to live?
fwiw, there was a nice article on urban/housing economist ed glaeser in the nytimes almost a decade(!) ago where he posits that as cities have lost their industrial bases, what increasingly attracts people are climate and culture:
posted by kliuless at 8:22 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
fwiw, there was a nice article on urban/housing economist ed glaeser in the nytimes almost a decade(!) ago where he posits that as cities have lost their industrial bases, what increasingly attracts people are climate and culture:
Until recently, cities existed to economize on transportation costs — hence their locations near industries or agriculture to reduce the expense of shipping products by sea or by train. Yet because transport (mainly trucking) costs dropped significantly during the 20th century, location has become irrelevant. In Glaeser's view, cities now exist so that people can have face-to-face interactions or be entertained or consume products and services. For businesses, cities are a place to benefit from a spillover in ideas and to reduce costs by being near other companies. This evolution, of course, has coincided with a vast American migration toward regions of sun and sprawl...also btw Tough, Cheap, and Real, Detroit Is Cool Again :P
posted by kliuless at 8:22 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
NOBODY... and I mean NOBODY ever said, come to New York City to go on great hikes in the mountains, enjoy the climate, have fresh avocados all the time, and have people be nice to you. Because that has never been part of the attraction of New York City (even though you can find all of that here, especially nice people. The biggest assholes in NYC are not from NYC, mind you.) And hummingbirds? fffFUCK hummingbirds! (And we have those too!) New York City has always been an aggressive urban jungle. All of these wankers who come to my town and try to rebuild it in "their" image.. they find the place more inhospitable than those of us who are from around here and know the vibe of this city. Aww, you want friendly drivers who aren't jockeying for position? Go and enjoy it on your cramped and congested highway taking 3 hours to drive 10 miles. People in this city have to GET somewhere and DO something. If you don't like it, get out of the way. Oh, people in LA are all nice? Hopefully not as "nice" as Minnesota nice. That kind of nice pisses me right off. I'm all for romanticizing a great city (like New York or Chicago) but it seems like most of the people who move here based on fantasies created by the media or by themselves are the ones who are the most disappointed. I make UNDER $40k as a classical/freelance/orchestra/Broadway musician and I survive just fine sharing a two-bedroom apartment in Sunnyside, Queens, 15 minutes from Manhattan by EITHER subway or biking. I continue to sneer at people who leave with tears in their eyes because their triple figure salary can't sustain them here. It must suck being them, but good luck wherever they find their little corner of heaven in this wide wide world. I'll be doing laps around Central Park checking out the ducks and heron, hangin' out with squirrels n' shit. Fuhgeddaboutit.
posted by ReeMonster at 8:25 AM on May 5, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by ReeMonster at 8:25 AM on May 5, 2015 [13 favorites]
The only problem seems to be that there is a massive influx of people like me, raising the rents and pushing people out of the neighborhood.
There's the rub. I've been hearing a lot of chatter in my social circles about moving to LA. Mostly people looking for more space, trying to re-invent themselves, etc. There is definitely some substance to this article, however dressed up in bougie NYT-speak it may be. Gentrification, it seems, is going national.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:30 AM on May 5, 2015
There's the rub. I've been hearing a lot of chatter in my social circles about moving to LA. Mostly people looking for more space, trying to re-invent themselves, etc. There is definitely some substance to this article, however dressed up in bougie NYT-speak it may be. Gentrification, it seems, is going national.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:30 AM on May 5, 2015
Metafilter: fffFUCK hummingbirds!
posted by jquinby at 8:32 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 8:32 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
The correct way to read ReeMonster's comment is to imagine the Sorting Hat from Harry Potter, except it's a Mets hat that got run over by the 6 train and sounds like Vinnie Barbarino.
posted by griphus at 8:39 AM on May 5, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by griphus at 8:39 AM on May 5, 2015 [29 favorites]
Geographically, all things turn left.
posted by rankfreudlite at 9:16 AM on May 5, 2015
posted by rankfreudlite at 9:16 AM on May 5, 2015
And LA does so have great restaurants. Come on, now.
It does, I can vouch for that. The problem is that LA's great restaurants tend to look really different from NY's great restaurants (they're generally small and ethnic, and by ethnic I don't mean French / Italian).
posted by C^3 at 9:17 AM on May 5, 2015
It does, I can vouch for that. The problem is that LA's great restaurants tend to look really different from NY's great restaurants (they're generally small and ethnic, and by ethnic I don't mean French / Italian).
posted by C^3 at 9:17 AM on May 5, 2015
Werner Herzog on Los Angeles:
posted by cell divide at 9:24 AM on May 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
WH: I leave such things—including gyms, exercising in public and tanning salons, all the idiocies of modern urban life—to Californians. I have been down to Venice Beach, where the musclemen congregate, only a couple of times, and that was to show it to some curious friends. What I like about Los Angeles is that it allows everyone to live his or her own lifestyle. Drive around the hills and you find a Moorish castle next to a Swiss chalet sitting beside a house shaped like a UFO. There is a lot of creative energy in Los Angeles not channelled into the film business.There's much more, here.
Florence and Venice have great surface beauty, but as cities they feel like museums, whereas for me Los Angeles is the city in America with the most substance, even if it’s raw, uncouth and sometimes quite bizarre. Wherever you look is an immense depth, a tumult that resonates with me. New York is more concerned with finance than anything else. It doesn’t create culture, only consumes it; most of what you find in New York comes from elsewhere. Things actually get done in Los Angeles. Look beyond the glitz and glamour of Hollywood and a wild excitement of intense dreams opens up; it has more horizons than any other place.
There is a great deal of industry in the city and a real working class; I also appreciate the vibrant presence of the Mexicans. In the last half century every significant cultural and technical trend has emerged from California, including the Free Speech Movement and the acceptance of gays and lesbians as an integral part of a dignified society, computers and the Internet, and—thanks to Hollywood—the collective dreams of the entire world. A fascinating density of things exists there like nowhere else in the world. Muslim fundamentalism is probably the only contemporary mass movement that wasn’t born there. One reason I’m so comfortable in Los Angeles is that Hollywood doesn’t need me and I don’t need Hollywood. I rarely involve myself with industry rituals and am rarely on the red carpet.
posted by cell divide at 9:24 AM on May 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
Spent my teens in LA, then did four years in the military, then went back to LA for college and a couple years after that. Then I moved to Seattle, and I'm going on 11 years here.
I love both towns. So much. I adore LA. There are a lot of things about it I miss...but I also love Seattle.
And I've never been happy on the East Coast. Ever. Boston, Key West, Jersey...no thank you.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:33 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I love both towns. So much. I adore LA. There are a lot of things about it I miss...but I also love Seattle.
And I've never been happy on the East Coast. Ever. Boston, Key West, Jersey...no thank you.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:33 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, these are much better reasons for LA than rent methinks. Also Del Taco. I love Del Taco.
Jesus Christ, you're talking about LA and the best "Mexican" "food" you can think of is Del Taco? Have you recently suffered a sharp blow to the head? If not, you might need one.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:44 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Jesus Christ, you're talking about LA and the best "Mexican" "food" you can think of is Del Taco? Have you recently suffered a sharp blow to the head? If not, you might need one.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:44 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'll be doing laps around Central Park checking out the ducks and heron, hangin' out with squirrels n' shit. Fuhgeddaboutit
Can I assume you're not originally from NYC? Because even as an expat New Yorker who, in my 20s, would tell people I met in Europe that I was from The City and expect them to know where I meant, I found your paragraph more than a bit OTT.
posted by the sobsister at 9:47 AM on May 5, 2015
Can I assume you're not originally from NYC? Because even as an expat New Yorker who, in my 20s, would tell people I met in Europe that I was from The City and expect them to know where I meant, I found your paragraph more than a bit OTT.
posted by the sobsister at 9:47 AM on May 5, 2015
Once I said to a faculty member who was the boss of me that I was considering moving from NYC to LA and she said delicately, "They don't know how to . . . talk, there."
Still don't know what that means. I moved to Philadelphia, which I can attest has many other NYC refugees. I think the truth of the matter is that NYC is much too full of people and so we flee to different cities for different reasons. I personally am broke, ugly, and as a former Oregonian, afraid of LA, so here I sit.
posted by angrycat at 9:48 AM on May 5, 2015
Still don't know what that means. I moved to Philadelphia, which I can attest has many other NYC refugees. I think the truth of the matter is that NYC is much too full of people and so we flee to different cities for different reasons. I personally am broke, ugly, and as a former Oregonian, afraid of LA, so here I sit.
posted by angrycat at 9:48 AM on May 5, 2015
here's VikingSword on being a swede in LA :P
Muslim fundamentalism is probably the only contemporary mass movement that wasn’t born there.
but maybe a force for muslim moderation will be!
posted by kliuless at 9:54 AM on May 5, 2015
Muslim fundamentalism is probably the only contemporary mass movement that wasn’t born there.
but maybe a force for muslim moderation will be!
posted by kliuless at 9:54 AM on May 5, 2015
The only problem seems to be that there is a massive influx of people like me, raising the rents and pushing people out of the neighborhood.
"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded". --Franklin Delano Roosevelt
posted by chavenet at 10:06 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded". --Franklin Delano Roosevelt
posted by chavenet at 10:06 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Once I said to a faculty member who was the boss of me that I was considering moving from NYC to LA and she said delicately, "They don't know how to . . . talk, there."
Definitely heard something like this before too. A coworker from NJ told me that he thought Californians sounded 'stupid' because we talk slower.
posted by extramundane at 10:10 AM on May 5, 2015
Definitely heard something like this before too. A coworker from NJ told me that he thought Californians sounded 'stupid' because we talk slower.
posted by extramundane at 10:10 AM on May 5, 2015
I lived in LA for about a decade. These days I live in Seattle. It's okay, but it ain't LA. It's kind of LA-lite, with not enough sun during the winter to keep my solar-powered ass really happy.
I miss LA. I miss LA somewhere deep in my bones. The Emerald City is not without its charms; all these lush, green trees are really nice, I've gotten used to the regular drizzle. But being able to go chill on a beautiful, sunny beach while the Pacific washes at the shore? With palm trees gently waving overhead? Even in winter? That sounds like heaven.
I should seriously investigate that idea a Seattle friend and I have been kicking around of sharing an apartment in LA for the winter. I think our finances are in a place where it's reasonable.
posted by egypturnash at 10:22 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I miss LA. I miss LA somewhere deep in my bones. The Emerald City is not without its charms; all these lush, green trees are really nice, I've gotten used to the regular drizzle. But being able to go chill on a beautiful, sunny beach while the Pacific washes at the shore? With palm trees gently waving overhead? Even in winter? That sounds like heaven.
I should seriously investigate that idea a Seattle friend and I have been kicking around of sharing an apartment in LA for the winter. I think our finances are in a place where it's reasonable.
posted by egypturnash at 10:22 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
A coworker from NJ told me that he thought Californians sounded 'stupid' because we talk slower.
Also the apparently sincere cheerfulness is really ominous and threatening. Stop smiling at me! I don't even know you why are you doing this
posted by poffin boffin at 10:23 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also the apparently sincere cheerfulness is really ominous and threatening. Stop smiling at me! I don't even know you why are you doing this
posted by poffin boffin at 10:23 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just keep telling my NYC friends that Chicago is definitely, absolutely the nonstop bloodbath they hear about on the news. And never, ever invite them to stay at my dirt-cheap enormous apartment.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:24 AM on May 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:24 AM on May 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
didn't like a million people freeze to death in their cars there right on the highway 2 winters ago? maybe even 2 milllion.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:26 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:26 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
A coworker from NJ told me that he thought Californians sounded 'stupid' because we talk slower.
Is this why, as a California native, I was annoyed by Gilmore Girls' dialogue? All I could think was "Slow down, you'll sound just as smart if you talk slower!"
posted by JauntyFedora at 10:38 AM on May 5, 2015
Is this why, as a California native, I was annoyed by Gilmore Girls' dialogue? All I could think was "Slow down, you'll sound just as smart if you talk slower!"
posted by JauntyFedora at 10:38 AM on May 5, 2015
A coworker from NJ told me that he thought Californians sounded 'stupid' because we talk slower.
Pray he never goes below the Mason-Dixon or his fingers will wear out from speed-dialing the trauma ward every time someone talks to him.
posted by psoas at 10:42 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pray he never goes below the Mason-Dixon or his fingers will wear out from speed-dialing the trauma ward every time someone talks to him.
posted by psoas at 10:42 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
A coworker from NJ told me that he thought Californians sounded 'stupid' because we talk slower.
When I moved from NJ to Pennsylvania, the first time someone on the street randomly said "good morning" to me, I turned around to see who he was talking to. After thirty years in the commonwealth I've almost gotten used to that.
posted by octothorpe at 10:43 AM on May 5, 2015
When I moved from NJ to Pennsylvania, the first time someone on the street randomly said "good morning" to me, I turned around to see who he was talking to. After thirty years in the commonwealth I've almost gotten used to that.
posted by octothorpe at 10:43 AM on May 5, 2015
I lived in the LA suburbs for a year and I definitely noticed a drawl and the people there definitely noticed that I was Not From Around There.
I grew up with and subscribe to the idea that, in most conversations, the most polite thing you can do is be direct and waste as little of the other person's time as possible, but I understand and respect if people in other places have the abundantly excessive free time to not do that.
posted by griphus at 10:47 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I grew up with and subscribe to the idea that, in most conversations, the most polite thing you can do is be direct and waste as little of the other person's time as possible, but I understand and respect if people in other places have the abundantly excessive free time to not do that.
posted by griphus at 10:47 AM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just don't feel rushed all the time in LA like some other cities (particularly east coast ones). Language and the general culture probably slow down to reflect that.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:57 AM on May 5, 2015
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:57 AM on May 5, 2015
But New York versus LA is not only about actual living conditions. It's also about culture, personality types, the idea of the city. LA makes me think of plastic surgery, fake personalities, sunshine, actors, tech people, new agey hippie stuff and cars. New York makes me think of surliness, urbanity, extreme weather, bohemians, bankers, writers and subways. Which do you identify with more? People are acting like quality of life is actually important in this evaluation.
posted by ChuckRamone at 11:19 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ChuckRamone at 11:19 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
LA is an excellent option. For Freelancing Fremen.
posted by gorgor_balabala at 11:34 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by gorgor_balabala at 11:34 AM on May 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is the first I've heard of Californians speaking slowly, but then again as a native Californian I've only ever been asked to speak more slowly by non-native English speakers, particularly after getting excitable.
posted by memento maury at 11:55 AM on May 5, 2015
posted by memento maury at 11:55 AM on May 5, 2015
LA makes me think of plastic surgery, fake personalities, sunshine, actors, tech people, new agey hippie stuff and cars.
The myth of LA being all those things -- well, just like any other myth, it's true if you're going there looking for that, it's not all that true otherwise, any more than it's like "New York in the 80s," as the brain-dead NYT article suggests. What Joan Didion wrote in the 60s about California is really all about LA and is still basically true: "All that is constant about the California of my childhood is the rate at which it disappears. California is a place in which a boom mentality and a sense of Chekhovian loss meet in uneasy suspension."
The last time I was in LA three years ago I remembered in a rush everything I loved and hated about it growing up there all at once and I thanked the stars above that (short of winning the lottery) I'd never be able to afford to move back there ever again, even if I somehow fell under the spell of a delusion that I'd want to.
posted by blucevalo at 12:40 PM on May 5, 2015
The myth of LA being all those things -- well, just like any other myth, it's true if you're going there looking for that, it's not all that true otherwise, any more than it's like "New York in the 80s," as the brain-dead NYT article suggests. What Joan Didion wrote in the 60s about California is really all about LA and is still basically true: "All that is constant about the California of my childhood is the rate at which it disappears. California is a place in which a boom mentality and a sense of Chekhovian loss meet in uneasy suspension."
The last time I was in LA three years ago I remembered in a rush everything I loved and hated about it growing up there all at once and I thanked the stars above that (short of winning the lottery) I'd never be able to afford to move back there ever again, even if I somehow fell under the spell of a delusion that I'd want to.
posted by blucevalo at 12:40 PM on May 5, 2015
The problem is that LA's great restaurants tend to look really different from NY's great restaurants (they're generally small and ethnic, and by ethnic I don't mean French / Italian)
I dunno, Melisse isn't exactly bad eats.
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I dunno, Melisse isn't exactly bad eats.
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Jesus Christ, you're talking about LA and the best "Mexican" "food" you can think of is Del Taco? Have you recently suffered a sharp blow to the head? If not, you might need one."
Ignoring the weirdly violent framing of what you wrote, where did I mention "the best Mexican food"? I just said that I love Del Taco.
posted by I-baLL at 1:51 PM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ignoring the weirdly violent framing of what you wrote, where did I mention "the best Mexican food"? I just said that I love Del Taco.
posted by I-baLL at 1:51 PM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sorry, I didn't mean for my obvious hyperbole to harsh your mellow, bro. Namaste.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:57 PM on May 5, 2015
posted by entropicamericana at 1:57 PM on May 5, 2015
I was recently Skyping a friend in Kentuky and we concluded that, despite where our bodies were located, our brains were what mattered.
posted by rankfreudlite at 2:32 PM on May 5, 2015
posted by rankfreudlite at 2:32 PM on May 5, 2015
For my job, I've been able to travel a bit through these United States in the last year and a half, and I have to say that I feel palpable relief when the wheels hit the tarmac at JFK.
#NYCforlifeunlessIcangetaresidentvisaenablingmetoliveinLondon
posted by droplet at 2:47 PM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
#NYCforlifeunlessIcangetaresidentvisaenablingmetoliveinLondon
posted by droplet at 2:47 PM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can I assume you're not originally from NYC?
You can assume that but no, I was born and raised on Staten Island and did my undergrad and grad degrees in Manhattan, and as some readers figured out, I was having some fun and being a bit more NEW YAWK in my snide comments. I am very much a New Yorker and addicted to this town. So yeah I'm biased but all of the opinions I expressed are truly how I feel, in an exaggerated way of course.
posted by ReeMonster at 3:31 PM on May 5, 2015
You can assume that but no, I was born and raised on Staten Island and did my undergrad and grad degrees in Manhattan, and as some readers figured out, I was having some fun and being a bit more NEW YAWK in my snide comments. I am very much a New Yorker and addicted to this town. So yeah I'm biased but all of the opinions I expressed are truly how I feel, in an exaggerated way of course.
posted by ReeMonster at 3:31 PM on May 5, 2015
"And LA does so have great restaurants. Come on, now."
Nope, none. It's all Jack in the Box and urine-soaked tampons thrown right in your eye, and those are the places with Michelin stars.
From the lack of subways meaning we have CHODs instead of CHUDs to the endless late-period RHCP boomboxes mandated by law, LA is a blasted hellscape. No one should come here, even to visit — you can get the exact same experience by watching a 37-year-old movie made by a child molester.
I gotta go now, in eight hours I'm going to have my scleras bleached and my glute implants inflated, so I gotta get in the car now.
posted by klangklangston at 3:42 PM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Nope, none. It's all Jack in the Box and urine-soaked tampons thrown right in your eye, and those are the places with Michelin stars.
From the lack of subways meaning we have CHODs instead of CHUDs to the endless late-period RHCP boomboxes mandated by law, LA is a blasted hellscape. No one should come here, even to visit — you can get the exact same experience by watching a 37-year-old movie made by a child molester.
I gotta go now, in eight hours I'm going to have my scleras bleached and my glute implants inflated, so I gotta get in the car now.
posted by klangklangston at 3:42 PM on May 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
NYC seems to be one of those cities that you just love or you don't. I have to go to Manhattan about once a month for work, and while it's cool to visit, it's not my kind of town. Parts of Queens are somewhat better. LA...nope, never been a fan of anywhere in So Cal, really.
Cities and neighborhoods have character, and as we change, so do how we relate to them. I used to be in love with San Francisco, where I'm from, but now just think of it fondly, like an ex who's still kinda a friend but you don't talk with all the time. Sounds like some of the kids who thought living in Brooklyn would somehow give them an interesting life and culture; that's been LA's primary marketing gimmick since day 1.
posted by smirkette at 3:50 PM on May 5, 2015
Cities and neighborhoods have character, and as we change, so do how we relate to them. I used to be in love with San Francisco, where I'm from, but now just think of it fondly, like an ex who's still kinda a friend but you don't talk with all the time. Sounds like some of the kids who thought living in Brooklyn would somehow give them an interesting life and culture; that's been LA's primary marketing gimmick since day 1.
posted by smirkette at 3:50 PM on May 5, 2015
Let's all move into the woods and live like elves then.
posted by The Whelk at 4:47 PM on May 5, 2015
posted by The Whelk at 4:47 PM on May 5, 2015
And LA may seem cheap to a New York Times Style section reporter, but it sure ain't cheap to anyone who actually lives there.
I guess it's just a random data point, but several of my friends or acquaintances in seattle have moved to LA because it's WAY WAY CHEAPER. They're paying $800-1000 for giant places when that barely rates a studio even out in the boonies here unless you score an amazing deal from an ancient about to die landlord. Or at an inexplicably cheap place that has advertised vacancies once every 5 years since all units go instantly by word of mouth.
LA is cheap to everyone i know, simply because it's all sprawl and everyone isn't trying to cram in to one little part of it(necessarily). You need a car, so you might as well just move to wherever is sort of close to where you'll usually be.
In seattle, everyone is filling out from the center but the sledgehammer hit so hard that the shockwaves hit every suburb too. In LA they seem to just fill in wherever it's cheap and things becomes interesting around that.
That said, i agree with the premise. Even portland is stupidly expensive now even compared to what it was 5 years ago. Hell, 3-ish years ago my friend had an entire house(of the "backyard dwelling" mother in law variety, but still. A house! An indepedent structure! with rooms!) for $500 a month.
What kept portland cheap was that there were no fucking jobs unless you were midway up your industry, and sometimes even then. The bottom of the ladder hadn't just been pulled up, it had been blown off with a rocket launcher. The same TechBro BS is driving the rents up now, but for a while it was just the case that things had to stay cheap because the only people renting for the most part were baristas and restaurant staff.
It's funny because 5 years ago tons of people i knew were saving up, moving there, and coming back 6 months later because they never got a job. Now anyone who was there is moving out because there's still not very many jobs, but even if they had one they just got priced out.
I'm really curious to see what portland looks like in 5 years. It isn't already impossible to buy and really hard to rent in like seattle or austin, but it's catching up way faster than either of those places accelerated to awful.
posted by emptythought at 5:13 PM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess it's just a random data point, but several of my friends or acquaintances in seattle have moved to LA because it's WAY WAY CHEAPER. They're paying $800-1000 for giant places when that barely rates a studio even out in the boonies here unless you score an amazing deal from an ancient about to die landlord. Or at an inexplicably cheap place that has advertised vacancies once every 5 years since all units go instantly by word of mouth.
LA is cheap to everyone i know, simply because it's all sprawl and everyone isn't trying to cram in to one little part of it(necessarily). You need a car, so you might as well just move to wherever is sort of close to where you'll usually be.
In seattle, everyone is filling out from the center but the sledgehammer hit so hard that the shockwaves hit every suburb too. In LA they seem to just fill in wherever it's cheap and things becomes interesting around that.
That said, i agree with the premise. Even portland is stupidly expensive now even compared to what it was 5 years ago. Hell, 3-ish years ago my friend had an entire house(of the "backyard dwelling" mother in law variety, but still. A house! An indepedent structure! with rooms!) for $500 a month.
What kept portland cheap was that there were no fucking jobs unless you were midway up your industry, and sometimes even then. The bottom of the ladder hadn't just been pulled up, it had been blown off with a rocket launcher. The same TechBro BS is driving the rents up now, but for a while it was just the case that things had to stay cheap because the only people renting for the most part were baristas and restaurant staff.
It's funny because 5 years ago tons of people i knew were saving up, moving there, and coming back 6 months later because they never got a job. Now anyone who was there is moving out because there's still not very many jobs, but even if they had one they just got priced out.
I'm really curious to see what portland looks like in 5 years. It isn't already impossible to buy and really hard to rent in like seattle or austin, but it's catching up way faster than either of those places accelerated to awful.
posted by emptythought at 5:13 PM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
You didn't realize it was envy before?
Pfft. Airheads.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:04 PM on May 5, 2015
Pfft. Airheads.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:04 PM on May 5, 2015
I didn't get LA and SoCal until I moved here. And then it took a few years. It's not a good city to visit. But it's a diverse, culturally rich and beautiful place; and I'd never want to leave it. I've fallen for it hard.
I feel like both of my cities--LA and Chicago (where I grew up) aren't sufficiently appreciated. But that's fine with me. It keeps the house prices down.
posted by persona au gratin at 7:04 PM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I feel like both of my cities--LA and Chicago (where I grew up) aren't sufficiently appreciated. But that's fine with me. It keeps the house prices down.
posted by persona au gratin at 7:04 PM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
LA native who now lives in NYC.
One of the plot lines of the 2010 movie Burlesque( which I watched after it was nominated for a Golden Globe) was about the air rights of a building on the south side of Sunset Boulevard in West Hollywood ( which on that part of the street is on a hillside overlooking the rest of the county). I didn't think it was plausible to want to build the kind of monster buildings that are going up in Midtown NY with the risk of earthquake, but there are now several going up. >:-(
posted by brujita at 9:23 PM on May 5, 2015
One of the plot lines of the 2010 movie Burlesque( which I watched after it was nominated for a Golden Globe) was about the air rights of a building on the south side of Sunset Boulevard in West Hollywood ( which on that part of the street is on a hillside overlooking the rest of the county). I didn't think it was plausible to want to build the kind of monster buildings that are going up in Midtown NY with the risk of earthquake, but there are now several going up. >:-(
posted by brujita at 9:23 PM on May 5, 2015
Is it just me, or does the NYT do an absolutely terrible job making the cities it writes about sound appealing? Neither NYC or LA sound appealing.
NYC: frigid, massively expensive, no "young creatives"
LA: requires a vehicle, drought, massively expensive ($1,250/mo for a room is expensive), hot all the time
All the things it talks about with LA, like "art galleries" and Zambian cafes (????) sound...lame. I'm 26, no one my age cares about these things. Maybe my age group isn't the target audience. Okay, who is? It's talking about young creatives. People my age and younger were what made Portland trendy, not people who go and hang out at art galleries in the Pearl (although we did that because there was free wine). That's anecdotal of course and I'm basing it off all the anecdotes various friends of mine who're Portland natives tell me about growing up there. And as emptythought said, it has grown a lot and is facing a lot of the same issues, but before I moved in March I was paying only $500/mo with two other roommates in a cozy house in Lair Hill. I had a bistro directly across the street, a park, the new MAX orange line opening up in Sept., PSU was close and easily walkable, and it was incredibly easy to bike or take public transit everywhere. Before I lived there I lived in a house with a big back yard and a garage that our friends' band practiced in but could have been a studio. It was more expensive, $500 with 3 other roommates. It's on Division and 39th, one of the biggest growing neighborhoods right now (and my friends who still live there say their rent hasn't gone up yet, but we'll see). And even though everyone gives Portland shit for the rain, it actually has four seasons per year, not just hot and cold. And when it's hot out everyone rides down to the river or finds a ride to Sauvie Island. But still, even the NYT's articles on Portland not too long ago (when it seemed like they had a new one every week) made it sound like a terrible place to live.
A lot of these places have the same cool stuff plus or minus some things. I visited LA a couple of years ago and loved it. I took public transport everywhere. I have some friends moving to NYC this summer so I'm sure I'll be visiting there too and loving it. But man oh man, the NYT can sell the Iraq War but not hip American cities.
posted by gucci mane at 9:55 PM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
NYC: frigid, massively expensive, no "young creatives"
LA: requires a vehicle, drought, massively expensive ($1,250/mo for a room is expensive), hot all the time
All the things it talks about with LA, like "art galleries" and Zambian cafes (????) sound...lame. I'm 26, no one my age cares about these things. Maybe my age group isn't the target audience. Okay, who is? It's talking about young creatives. People my age and younger were what made Portland trendy, not people who go and hang out at art galleries in the Pearl (although we did that because there was free wine). That's anecdotal of course and I'm basing it off all the anecdotes various friends of mine who're Portland natives tell me about growing up there. And as emptythought said, it has grown a lot and is facing a lot of the same issues, but before I moved in March I was paying only $500/mo with two other roommates in a cozy house in Lair Hill. I had a bistro directly across the street, a park, the new MAX orange line opening up in Sept., PSU was close and easily walkable, and it was incredibly easy to bike or take public transit everywhere. Before I lived there I lived in a house with a big back yard and a garage that our friends' band practiced in but could have been a studio. It was more expensive, $500 with 3 other roommates. It's on Division and 39th, one of the biggest growing neighborhoods right now (and my friends who still live there say their rent hasn't gone up yet, but we'll see). And even though everyone gives Portland shit for the rain, it actually has four seasons per year, not just hot and cold. And when it's hot out everyone rides down to the river or finds a ride to Sauvie Island. But still, even the NYT's articles on Portland not too long ago (when it seemed like they had a new one every week) made it sound like a terrible place to live.
A lot of these places have the same cool stuff plus or minus some things. I visited LA a couple of years ago and loved it. I took public transport everywhere. I have some friends moving to NYC this summer so I'm sure I'll be visiting there too and loving it. But man oh man, the NYT can sell the Iraq War but not hip American cities.
posted by gucci mane at 9:55 PM on May 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm 26, no one my age cares about these things. ... People my age and younger were what made Portland trendy, not people who go and hang out at art galleries in the Pearl
The really visible tipping point for Portland was back when you were in grade school or middle school (though with much earlier antecedents, of course, including the early gentrification in the Pearl that you see the results of now). It's accelerated in the last eight or so years, obviously.
I don't live there anymore, but still visit routinely and I think a lot of the changes are for the better, though it would be great if someone solved the very old problem of Portland being a low-wage city, especially now that it is reaching peak gentrification. Unlike LA, Portland has the problem that I would earn about the same as I do in a much cheaper location, while offering big-city housing costs.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:43 AM on May 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
The really visible tipping point for Portland was back when you were in grade school or middle school (though with much earlier antecedents, of course, including the early gentrification in the Pearl that you see the results of now). It's accelerated in the last eight or so years, obviously.
I don't live there anymore, but still visit routinely and I think a lot of the changes are for the better, though it would be great if someone solved the very old problem of Portland being a low-wage city, especially now that it is reaching peak gentrification. Unlike LA, Portland has the problem that I would earn about the same as I do in a much cheaper location, while offering big-city housing costs.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:43 AM on May 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure that I'd want to live in a city that gives you $200 tickets for jay-walking. Or any ticket for jay-walking.
posted by octothorpe at 4:59 AM on May 6, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 4:59 AM on May 6, 2015
I'm 26... People my age and younger were what made Portland trendy
haha, oh youth.
all my hipster friends were moving to Portland when you were in kindergarten, son. It's a been a retirement destination spot for young people for decades.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:31 AM on May 6, 2015
haha, oh youth.
all my hipster friends were moving to Portland when you were in kindergarten, son. It's a been a retirement destination spot for young people for decades.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:31 AM on May 6, 2015
Comics People never leave their house so it's identical to them not living there.
posted by The Whelk at 10:53 AM on May 6, 2015
posted by The Whelk at 10:53 AM on May 6, 2015
All the things it talks about with LA, like "art galleries" and Zambian cafes (????) sound...lame. I'm 26, no one my age cares about these things. Maybe my age group isn't the target audience.
Dude, I'm 26 and live in LA and can tell you for a fact that people our age (and slightly older) are interested in these things, just maybe not the ones in your social circles. West Hollywood, Echo Park, Venice, Eagle Rock, and Silver Lake are magnets right now for hip yuppies with expendable income, which is why Intellegentsia is doing such gangbusters business.
posted by JauntyFedora at 3:30 PM on May 6, 2015
Dude, I'm 26 and live in LA and can tell you for a fact that people our age (and slightly older) are interested in these things, just maybe not the ones in your social circles. West Hollywood, Echo Park, Venice, Eagle Rock, and Silver Lake are magnets right now for hip yuppies with expendable income, which is why Intellegentsia is doing such gangbusters business.
posted by JauntyFedora at 3:30 PM on May 6, 2015
There's a decent crop of Comics People around Seattle. Just not much of anyone famous outside of the grunge-generation Fantagraphics crew. Yet. Give it a few years.
topic drift is a real problem around here too
posted by egypturnash at 8:39 PM on May 6, 2015
topic drift is a real problem around here too
posted by egypturnash at 8:39 PM on May 6, 2015
And how old were they then, entropicamericana? A few of my older friends who're in their late 40's moved there around 90-93ish in order to do art, which is around the time I was born. I'm not saying people of my generation made it what it is, but that the people I personally know were there doing it when they were my age.
@JauntyFedora: I guess it must be a difference of social circles. I don't know anyone who finds that stuff neat. I visited LA in both 2009 and 2013 and my friends who lived there each time took us to like, random bars and good restaurants, and kitschy-but-still-good stuff like Eggslut. Oh, and Mitsuwa, but idk if that's in LA proper. I guess I don't know that many coffee snobs. Although Vietnamese iced coffee is getting big.
A lot of people I know from Portland and LA have moved to New Orleans though. I mean like 5 people all in the past year, and not all together and they only disparately know each other. Not sure what the deal is with that.
posted by gucci mane at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2015
@JauntyFedora: I guess it must be a difference of social circles. I don't know anyone who finds that stuff neat. I visited LA in both 2009 and 2013 and my friends who lived there each time took us to like, random bars and good restaurants, and kitschy-but-still-good stuff like Eggslut. Oh, and Mitsuwa, but idk if that's in LA proper. I guess I don't know that many coffee snobs. Although Vietnamese iced coffee is getting big.
A lot of people I know from Portland and LA have moved to New Orleans though. I mean like 5 people all in the past year, and not all together and they only disparately know each other. Not sure what the deal is with that.
posted by gucci mane at 8:58 PM on May 6, 2015
"Sorry, I didn't mean for my obvious hyperbole to harsh your mellow, bro. Namaste."
No worries. Just overnight me some Del Taco and we'll be okay.
posted by I-baLL at 9:08 PM on May 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
No worries. Just overnight me some Del Taco and we'll be okay.
posted by I-baLL at 9:08 PM on May 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wanted to add that whenever I see someone like the NYT use the term "young creatives" I imagine they're Viacom in that one Mission Hill episode where Real World comes to film and they get Andy to be on the show.
posted by gucci mane at 9:13 PM on May 6, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 9:13 PM on May 6, 2015
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posted by telstar at 2:35 AM on May 5, 2015 [1 favorite]