And nobody used this for a fantasy novel yet?
May 27, 2015 10:37 AM   Subscribe

So it turns out rather than religious fanatics unused to the freedom found in Holland, New England was actually founded by a bunch of Anglo-Saxon sell swords who had fled the British Isles after the Norman invasion on land given by a grateful byzantine emperor on the north-east coast of the Black Sea. Confused? Intrigued? Let Dr. Caitlin R. Green explain and set out the evidence for the existence of a 11th century New England/Nova Anglia.
posted by MartinWisse (32 comments total) 43 users marked this as a favorite
 
Interestingly, the Norwegian king died during the other 1066 invasion of England, Harald Hardrada, had spent time in the Varangian guard while in exile prior to becoming king. A popular place for people fleeing northern Europe to go.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:55 AM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


For this dabbling student of medieval history, this is a fascinating piece (and blog!). Thanks. And yes, it could make for a great piece of historical fiction or a fantasy/alt history novel.

A popular place for people fleeing northern Europe to go.

Judging by how many of my sons in Crusader Kings II go off to join the Varangian Guard, yes, it was very popular.
posted by nubs at 11:04 AM on May 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Hangin' with the Crimean Goths
posted by XMLicious at 11:08 AM on May 27, 2015


Direct descendant of one of the Siwards, here. I have to read more, backtrack. Could these be ancestors of the Cossacks? Read, read, read. Fascinating post when combined with a relatively recent post about a Middle Eastern historian's description of the Russ, and a Viking funeral in that area, and somewhat in that timeframe.
posted by Oyéah at 11:21 AM on May 27, 2015


Wow, I didn't know that people didn't already know this.

(Also, Caitlin Green! I seem to recall that her and Kevin Leahy share some slightly wacky--but fun--theories on Arthur that place his life and battles in northern Lincolnshire.)
posted by Thing at 11:38 AM on May 27, 2015


The most interesting takeaway from this is that there was yet another name for Istanbul/Constantinople: "Micklegarth."
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:52 AM on May 27, 2015 [9 favorites]


Wait, do They Might Be Giants know about this?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:00 PM on May 27, 2015 [6 favorites]


MetaFilter: Wow, I didn't know that people didn't already know this.
posted by The Tensor at 12:15 PM on May 27, 2015 [7 favorites]


"Micklegarth" looks suspiciously close to "middle earth"...
posted by ArgentCorvid at 12:33 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Micklegarth = 'Great Court' (or 'Big Yard') I think.
posted by Segundus at 12:51 PM on May 27, 2015


I suppose the fact that it had an Anglo-Saxon name shows it was a place they talked about pretty regularly.
posted by Segundus at 12:53 PM on May 27, 2015


Then much later, the Welsh came and founded Hughesovka (now Donetsk, in Eastern Ukraine).
posted by Kabanos at 12:56 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Micklegarth" looks suspiciously close to "middle earth"...

Some of the same roots at work. Middle-earth is derived from Midgard, which means something like "middle-dwelling"—in mythology, Midgard was the human realm hung between fire and ice, gods and giants.

"Micklegarth" uses the same -gard bit, but this time the prefix is derived from mikill—"great, tall." You could literally translate it as "big-ass yard," but the sense c. AD 1000 is apparently closest to "The Big City."
posted by Iridic at 12:57 PM on May 27, 2015 [9 favorites]


"Micklegarth" uses the same -gard bit, but this time the prefix is derived from mikill—"great, tall." You could literally translate it as "big-ass yard," but the sense c. AD 1000 is apparently closest to "The Big City."

The word garth also has a sense of enclosure which, considering Constantinople's walls, was apt.
posted by Thing at 1:07 PM on May 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Twenty bucks, same as in Micklegarth.
posted by Naberius at 1:10 PM on May 27, 2015 [9 favorites]


...but the sense c. AD 1000 is apparently closest to "The Big City."

This sounds similar to the then-current practice of referring to Constantiople in Greek as simply "the City".
posted by The Tensor at 1:20 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


This sounds similar to the then-current practice of referring to Constantiople in Greek as simply "the City"

The modern name of Istanbul derives from this usage as well, I believe.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:30 PM on May 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Party on, Micklegarth.

The modern name of Istanbul derives from this usage as well, I believe.

The standard claim is that it's slurred Greek, "eis tin polin" (εις την πόλιν), "into the city".
posted by BWA at 2:00 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Michael Caine's real name is Maurice Micklewhite.

Should he be referred to as "the Great White?" Just "the White?"

Discuss.
posted by rdone at 2:04 PM on May 27, 2015


Many a mickle makes a muckle.
posted by Segundus at 2:10 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Does this mean that by his own logic, Putin must now recognise Sussex as the true ancestral owners of the Crimea?

Because that would go well.
posted by Devonian at 2:36 PM on May 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Michael Caine's real name is Maurice Micklewhite.

Should he be referred to as "the Great White?" Just "the White?"

Discuss.


Micklewhite is a variant of Micklethwaite, which is a placename. A thwaite is a cleared stretch of woodland, hence Micklewhite really translates to Great Glade or something the like.

Many a mickle makes a muckle.

The words mickle and muckle mean the same thing, "a great deal". The rhyme is: Many a little make a mickle,/ many a penny make a pound.
posted by Thing at 2:55 PM on May 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


I just learned the name Micklegarth for the first time last week, when it was used in Naomi Mitchison's Travel Light. Odin met the protagonist and told her to go to "Micklegard", and I didn't even know it was a real thing until she arrived and it turned out he was talking about Constantinople.

I actually feel like rereading it to see if there were any references I hadn't understood to this Nova Anglia business.
posted by branduno at 3:45 PM on May 27, 2015


So New England is actually Newest England?
posted by Renoroc at 4:30 PM on May 27, 2015


Trend-setting since 1602, America.
posted by vrakatar at 4:33 PM on May 27, 2015


Far hae I travelled
And muckle hae I seen
But Saxons i the Crimea
Saw I ne'er nane.
posted by glasseyes at 4:38 PM on May 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Thing: The words mickle and muckle mean the same thing, "a great deal". The rhyme is: Many a little make a mickle,/ many a penny make a pound.

that is not even a rhyme though
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:05 PM on May 27, 2015


The rhyme is: Many a little make a mickle,/ many a penny make a pound.

that is not even a rhyme though


Ah, but if you know that little in English babytalk is ickle, suddenly you've got a false etymology for the US 5¢ piece.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:40 PM on May 27, 2015 [4 favorites]


I have "Baaby: English inversions and consonants" 3rd edition...no Ickle-nickel referent. Now the 4th has "gimme a dolla" as a inflationary adjustment modifier.
posted by clavdivs at 7:50 PM on May 27, 2015


Somewhere off the coast of Sicily:

"Are you sure this is the way to Denmark?"

"Yes! I had very clear instructions! 'Cross the English Channel,' they said, 'then just hug the coast until you get there.'"

"Yeah, but hug it in which direction?"

"To the right!"

"To the right?"

"Right."

"To your right, or the map's right?"

"Right is right!"

"Right... but..."

"Right!"

"Only it seems we've been sailing for ages and ages now..."

"The North Sea is enormous!"

"...past a lot of desert..."

"All land looks a desert from the sea."

"That's beautiful."

"Thank you. I just made it up."

"Yeah, but the thing is--"

"Aha! Look at that! What did I tell you! Norman banners, as far as the eye can see! And where does one find Norman banners?"

"..."

"In Normandy, of course! So there you have it. We are definitely sailing in the right direction."

"Right..."

"Precisely."

"Only, didn't we already pass Normandy? Wasn't it literally the first place we passed on the way to wherever we are now?"

"Perhaps we're nearing Belgium."

"Belgium?"

"Look, you know as well as I do that the Normans are expanding their territory; that is the cause of our having to flee them. It only stands to reason we'd be seeing them a ways hence from Normandy."

"Awfully deep tans those Belgians have."

"Well it is summer."
posted by Sys Rq at 8:27 PM on May 27, 2015 [15 favorites]


I think the original rhyme must have been "Many a pickle makes a mickle". A pickle is a Scots and Northern English word for a grain (e.g., of wheat, of sand, or salt) or a small quantity. Here's what the OED says:
4. A large sum or amount. Chiefly in proverb, many a little (or pickle) makes a mickle.

   1599 Middleton Micro-Cynicon Wks. (Bullen) VIII. 126 Some little dirty spot‥Nothing in many's view, in her's a mickle.
   1605 Camden Rem., Prov. (1614) 310 Many a little makes a micle.
   1712 Steele Spect. No. 509 ⁋6 But, I think, a Speculation upon Many a Little makes a Mickle‥would be very useful to the World.
   1905 Westm. Gaz. 29 Apr. 3/1 Mony a pickle maks a muckle.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:54 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Mick Garth

...may not really be called 'Mick'...
posted by Segundus at 10:51 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


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