Well, let’s not go there yet, and let’s certainly not start there.
June 17, 2015 7:39 AM Subscribe
The Seven Minutes In 2000 When The Clinton White House Considered Endorsing Marriage Equality (SL Longform Buzzfeed)
It's an excellent and detailed article and a fascinating take on how policy is made inside the White House. I appreciate Eric Liu's saying now that he was wrong to take a stance in favor of discriminating against people like me. Late, but at least not never.
But this article also opens old wounds. Clinton signed DOMA in 1996, a federal law that had huge negative consequences for nearly 20 years. It was only with the Supreme Court deciding it violated due process that we finally have some hope of equal rights for gay people at the federal level. Clinton also implemented explicit military discrimination against gays in 1994. Don't Ask Don't Tell was meant to be an improvement but mostly just made things formally worse.
The Clinton Administration made a lot of mistakes on gay rights and was working from a position of wrong, discriminatory principles. Interesting to read the details internally of how that happened.
posted by Nelson at 10:32 AM on June 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
But this article also opens old wounds. Clinton signed DOMA in 1996, a federal law that had huge negative consequences for nearly 20 years. It was only with the Supreme Court deciding it violated due process that we finally have some hope of equal rights for gay people at the federal level. Clinton also implemented explicit military discrimination against gays in 1994. Don't Ask Don't Tell was meant to be an improvement but mostly just made things formally worse.
The Clinton Administration made a lot of mistakes on gay rights and was working from a position of wrong, discriminatory principles. Interesting to read the details internally of how that happened.
posted by Nelson at 10:32 AM on June 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
The thing is though, DOMA took the wind out of the sails of the federal marriage amendment. If that had passed, we still wouldn't have same sex marriage anywhere in this country. And they knew DOMA was vulnerable to the court challenge that eventually stuck it down. Just like how it was better for Obama to pretend he was against SSM in 2008 and win the election, in order to get DADT struck down, and have the justice department decline to defend DOMA, etc. etc. Lose the battle, win the war.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:28 AM on June 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:28 AM on June 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I understand the lose the battle win the war issue, and that this was 15 years ago, but it's hard not to read I continue to believe that the people of California should be able to decide what marriages they will recognize coming from a Democratic White House and not feel punched in the gut. (And yes, I voted for the President twice and would do it again, but that doesn't mean it didn't stick in my craw then too.)
posted by joycehealy at 11:36 AM on June 17, 2015
posted by joycehealy at 11:36 AM on June 17, 2015
it was better for Obama to pretend he was against SSM in 2008 and win the election, in order to get DADT struck down, and have the justice department decline to defend DOMA
Hmmm I don't often see people flat-out justify lying in order to get elected. I mean, sure the ends may justify the means, but when you decide to lie your way into office you're officially embracing the notion that you know better than the people that elected you, which I see as not the right mindset for an elected representative.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:40 AM on June 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hmmm I don't often see people flat-out justify lying in order to get elected. I mean, sure the ends may justify the means, but when you decide to lie your way into office you're officially embracing the notion that you know better than the people that elected you, which I see as not the right mindset for an elected representative.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:40 AM on June 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, Ken Mehlman wasn't actually opposed to same sex marriage either when he got it on every state ballot he could in 2004 to drive Republicans to the polls.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 12:27 PM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 12:27 PM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
So one guy briefly proposed doing the right thing? Whoohoo? I can understand that it was 2000 and there were lots of reasons not to do it, but seriously: one guy for a couple of minutes? One brief shining moment indeed.
posted by zachlipton at 1:22 PM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by zachlipton at 1:22 PM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can somebody forward this to whoever is preparing the president's response to state ballot initiatives to legalize marijuana next year?
posted by one_bean at 1:46 PM on June 17, 2015
posted by one_bean at 1:46 PM on June 17, 2015
the federal marriage amendment. If that had passed,
The last Constitutional Amendment to be enacted, the seemingly uncontroversial 27th, "Congressional Compensation" was originally proposed September 25, 1789 and ratified May 7, 1992.
Before that, the 26th Amendment, changing the minimum voting age from 21 to 18, was ratified in 1971.
Any threat of passing a Constitutional Amendment has been a hollow threat for OVER 40 YEARS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:41 PM on June 17, 2015
The last Constitutional Amendment to be enacted, the seemingly uncontroversial 27th, "Congressional Compensation" was originally proposed September 25, 1789 and ratified May 7, 1992.
Before that, the 26th Amendment, changing the minimum voting age from 21 to 18, was ratified in 1971.
Any threat of passing a Constitutional Amendment has been a hollow threat for OVER 40 YEARS.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:41 PM on June 17, 2015
Hmmm I don't often see people flat-out justify lying in order to get elected. I mean, sure the ends may justify the means, but when you decide to lie your way into office you're officially embracing the notion that you know better than the people that elected you, which I see as not the right mindset for an elected representative.
You're electing a representative not a poll puppet.
posted by srboisvert at 4:02 PM on June 17, 2015
You're electing a representative not a poll puppet.
posted by srboisvert at 4:02 PM on June 17, 2015
« Older “And I promise, I will never be in a bicycle... | Running a marathon while solving equations Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Renoroc at 10:07 AM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]