The roads of Chittenden County
July 1, 2015 8:36 PM Subscribe
Until this year, Vermont had never formally decommissioned any roads. Ever. This has had some implications.... [via jessamyn's Twitter]
I can see that an ancient road is of historical interest, but (a) "interest" doesn't necessarily mean "worth preserving"; and (b) preservation doesn't necessarily mean "open to the public for whatever use".
If someone found an old Australian Aboriginal ceremonial ground on my property it would certainly be of interest, almost certainly be worth preserving, but it wouldn't imply that any random person could come along and (e.g.) hold a concert there. In fact, that use would be totally contrary to any meaningful preservation! But that's what the "preservation" of these roads implies: that an old road, once used by people on foot or horseback to pass between local sites, may now be used by trucks as a shortcut between other roads. That's just a silly comparison.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:54 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
If someone found an old Australian Aboriginal ceremonial ground on my property it would certainly be of interest, almost certainly be worth preserving, but it wouldn't imply that any random person could come along and (e.g.) hold a concert there. In fact, that use would be totally contrary to any meaningful preservation! But that's what the "preservation" of these roads implies: that an old road, once used by people on foot or horseback to pass between local sites, may now be used by trucks as a shortcut between other roads. That's just a silly comparison.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:54 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Once driving east/west across Vermont I tried taking a road that seemed to cross the mountains on the map (the state highway map no less), looked a good shortcut to driving south a ways then west, then back north a ways.
It started out well, but after a couple miles was a rutted track climbing up a serious mountainside, then petered out in some still melting snow. Happily, I managed to turn around and drive down, but still wonder (years later) why on earth that deer trail was on the state highway map. Maybe this is the answer.
posted by Death and Gravity at 9:10 PM on July 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
It started out well, but after a couple miles was a rutted track climbing up a serious mountainside, then petered out in some still melting snow. Happily, I managed to turn around and drive down, but still wonder (years later) why on earth that deer trail was on the state highway map. Maybe this is the answer.
posted by Death and Gravity at 9:10 PM on July 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
That makes me think of James Kim.
Or, in a different climate, the Death Valley Germans.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:54 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Or, in a different climate, the Death Valley Germans.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:54 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nifty. I like the story where, deep in the woods, the sight of one hidden apple tree turns into two, three, five, ten apple trees. A whole farm, within the woods, swallowed up!
Many summers ago I led backpacking trips on at a camp in New England, and we guided our explorations using maps made by a local high school history teacher. They were the standard USGS topographic maps overlaid with with points of local history and long forgotten trails/roads. Coming across old cellar holes or a long-since overgrown quarry site (among other oddities the woods had reclaimed over the years) offered a similarly fascinating, layered view of history. The slow realization of just what you're looking at in the woods -- compared to the "TA-DA!" aspect of a mountain top view -- was a treat, as was the kids' varied reactions to it. Shoot, back then, if I had (a) known the word, or (b) how to pronounce it, I might have used the word 'palimpsest' to describe it for the group.
Specific to Vermont roads: despite this legacy status granted the roads over the years, I understand that introducing modern addressing standards (2012 version, word doc) wasn't done until roughly ten years ago -- VT being the last state in the country to do so. At that time, my relatives living in the state got a phone call from whatever local authorities were tasked with modernizing the addresses. Turns out the 'driveway' was actually classifiable as a road in its own right, and so now the road -- officially! -- bears the family name.
posted by Theophrastus Johnson at 10:17 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Many summers ago I led backpacking trips on at a camp in New England, and we guided our explorations using maps made by a local high school history teacher. They were the standard USGS topographic maps overlaid with with points of local history and long forgotten trails/roads. Coming across old cellar holes or a long-since overgrown quarry site (among other oddities the woods had reclaimed over the years) offered a similarly fascinating, layered view of history. The slow realization of just what you're looking at in the woods -- compared to the "TA-DA!" aspect of a mountain top view -- was a treat, as was the kids' varied reactions to it. Shoot, back then, if I had (a) known the word, or (b) how to pronounce it, I might have used the word 'palimpsest' to describe it for the group.
Specific to Vermont roads: despite this legacy status granted the roads over the years, I understand that introducing modern addressing standards (2012 version, word doc) wasn't done until roughly ten years ago -- VT being the last state in the country to do so. At that time, my relatives living in the state got a phone call from whatever local authorities were tasked with modernizing the addresses. Turns out the 'driveway' was actually classifiable as a road in its own right, and so now the road -- officially! -- bears the family name.
posted by Theophrastus Johnson at 10:17 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
It started out well, but after a couple miles was a rutted track climbing up a serious mountainside, then petered out in some still melting snow.
I had a similar experience near Waitsfield last summer - although it eventually turned out that I was on a legitimate, maintained state road, I drove for a number of badly paved miles without seeing a sign of any kind, and only a handful of widely scattered houses. Knowing a little about Vermont, I (wrongly) assumed I'd eventually come to a dirt path running up the mountain into the woods and turned back.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:27 AM on July 2, 2015
I had a similar experience near Waitsfield last summer - although it eventually turned out that I was on a legitimate, maintained state road, I drove for a number of badly paved miles without seeing a sign of any kind, and only a handful of widely scattered houses. Knowing a little about Vermont, I (wrongly) assumed I'd eventually come to a dirt path running up the mountain into the woods and turned back.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:27 AM on July 2, 2015
There are several roads on the state map that are clearly marked (if you check the legend) as 'Road Closed in Winter'. The Lincoln Gap comes to mind. I took this once. Once!
There are others like the Bethel Mountain Road to Rochester that say open all year, but I'd like a 4WD in summer to get over.
I live in an area of mostly dirt roads, and some of them are not plowed in winter. This is not something the GPS devices seem to know about.
The property rights thing is interesting, as always. To me, having a road you need archaeological equipment to find is one thing. In my neighborhood there is an old road that is obviously a road and has been used by hikers forever, and the new property owners want to prohibit access. There's a strong feeling in Vermont about recreational trails. I personally wouldn't want to have snowmobiles going through my property, but I sure like hiking on the trails the snowmobilers maintain.
Lastly, I'd really like to see the LiDAR map.
posted by MtDewd at 6:09 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are others like the Bethel Mountain Road to Rochester that say open all year, but I'd like a 4WD in summer to get over.
I live in an area of mostly dirt roads, and some of them are not plowed in winter. This is not something the GPS devices seem to know about.
The property rights thing is interesting, as always. To me, having a road you need archaeological equipment to find is one thing. In my neighborhood there is an old road that is obviously a road and has been used by hikers forever, and the new property owners want to prohibit access. There's a strong feeling in Vermont about recreational trails. I personally wouldn't want to have snowmobiles going through my property, but I sure like hiking on the trails the snowmobilers maintain.
Lastly, I'd really like to see the LiDAR map.
posted by MtDewd at 6:09 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lastly, I'd really like to see the LiDAR map
Apparently I can. (If I install Silverlight)
posted by MtDewd at 6:12 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Apparently I can. (If I install Silverlight)
posted by MtDewd at 6:12 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
the ancient and unusedness of roads won't stop New Englanders from giving you directions that feature them. "Now, you want to go down the dirt road about a mile and a half, turn right at the road that disappeared in the eighteen forties, pass by the church that burned down about thirty years ago, and you're almost there."
posted by entropone at 7:36 AM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by entropone at 7:36 AM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Once driving east/west across Vermont I tried taking a road that seemed to cross the mountains on the map (the state highway map no less), looked a good shortcut to driving south a ways then west, then back north a ways.
Yeah, there's never a good way across the mountains in VT. The state was built N-S, not E-W.
posted by maryr at 8:07 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, there's never a good way across the mountains in VT. The state was built N-S, not E-W.
posted by maryr at 8:07 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are several roads on the state map that are clearly marked (if you check the legend) as 'Road Closed in Winter'.
Hell, VT 108 closes by Smugglers' Notch in the winter and that's a well maintained, frequently used state route.
posted by maryr at 8:14 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hell, VT 108 closes by Smugglers' Notch in the winter and that's a well maintained, frequently used state route.
posted by maryr at 8:14 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does "ancient" have a particular technical connotation in this context? Because unless we're talking about the pathways of indigenous peoples, I wouldn't really consider anything in this area "ancient," and yet it's used all over the article to describe a variety of roads. Just curious.
posted by Polyhymnia at 8:33 AM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Polyhymnia at 8:33 AM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I recall a cross-country bicycle trip some years ago. We used Bikecentennial Adventure Cycling maps to plan our route.
In New Hamster and Vermont, the maps often routed us to scenic little-traveled country lanes which were nevertheless numbered state routes. Scenic they were: also narrow, winding, and possessing no berm, shoulder, or edgelines. More than once we found ourselves pulling uphill for miles on grades of between 13% and 17%*. We often joked that we might make better progress if we got off and used pitons and ropes.
For reference: max spec for grades on Interstate Highways is 7%. The typical max for a US railroad is 2 to 4%. We rode much steeper roads crossing northern New England than we did crossing the Continental Divide (and associated highlands) in the Rockies.
---------------
*Before all you Silicon Folks and Bumbershooters check in, I'm talking about miles of road, not blocks. Anyway, the steepest street in the world isn't in you town it's in Dunedin, NZ / Pittsburghuh, PA (statistical tie).
posted by Herodios at 9:07 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
In New Hamster and Vermont, the maps often routed us to scenic little-traveled country lanes which were nevertheless numbered state routes. Scenic they were: also narrow, winding, and possessing no berm, shoulder, or edgelines. More than once we found ourselves pulling uphill for miles on grades of between 13% and 17%*. We often joked that we might make better progress if we got off and used pitons and ropes.
For reference: max spec for grades on Interstate Highways is 7%. The typical max for a US railroad is 2 to 4%. We rode much steeper roads crossing northern New England than we did crossing the Continental Divide (and associated highlands) in the Rockies.
---------------
*Before all you Silicon Folks and Bumbershooters check in, I'm talking about miles of road, not blocks. Anyway, the steepest street in the world isn't in you town it's in Dunedin, NZ / Pittsburghuh, PA (statistical tie).
posted by Herodios at 9:07 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I live in an area of mostly dirt roads...
A few years ago I started driving north from MtDewd's house on the main road (not in winter) and, after about 3 miles, realized that the holes and ruts were in fact becoming the entire surface of the road, that there was a good chance my car would be swallowed up, and I would never be found. Not wishing to die alone, in the woods, I turned around to bounce and jolt back south to safety.
I remember a terrible mountain road crossing the Cascades in southern Oregon many years back, one that got narrower and narrower, and worse and worse, until it reached the crest, and then widened again to let me go on, but I think this somewhat ordinary Chittenden County dirt road was the worst I've ever attempted.
posted by LeLiLo at 10:43 AM on July 2, 2015
A few years ago I started driving north from MtDewd's house on the main road (not in winter) and, after about 3 miles, realized that the holes and ruts were in fact becoming the entire surface of the road, that there was a good chance my car would be swallowed up, and I would never be found. Not wishing to die alone, in the woods, I turned around to bounce and jolt back south to safety.
I remember a terrible mountain road crossing the Cascades in southern Oregon many years back, one that got narrower and narrower, and worse and worse, until it reached the crest, and then widened again to let me go on, but I think this somewhat ordinary Chittenden County dirt road was the worst I've ever attempted.
posted by LeLiLo at 10:43 AM on July 2, 2015
I hung out in a rural part of Vermont a few years ago, in a house halfway up a small hill up a steep track, and in the forest behind there was a lot of old stone walls running everywhere, undefined stone structures, piles of stones, as well as could have been overgrown old roads. It was really neat.
posted by carter at 11:27 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by carter at 11:27 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am from Pittsburgh, have seen Canton Avenue, and it is indeed steep as hell. Pgh also has numerous named "streets" - that is your street address - that are actually just steps and not drivable.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:05 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:05 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
When I was at CWRU, we had to climb The Elephant Steps to get to the food. The Steps are still there, but apparently at some point the Uni built a canopy over the entire run.Wimps. I wonder when they'll install the escalator and espresso bar. Hmmph.
Meanwhile, back in Vermont . . .
posted by Herodios at 1:53 PM on July 2, 2015
Meanwhile, back in Vermont . . .
posted by Herodios at 1:53 PM on July 2, 2015
Hell, VT 108 closes by Smugglers' Notch in the winter and that's a well maintained, frequently used state route.
It is well maintained. It's also about 10' wide in some places, and steep- some of it I have to do in 1st gear. But worth the trip (in not-winter), if you're in Stowe or Jeffersonville.
A few years ago I started driving north from MtDewd's house...
That must have been mud season- it's pretty smooth right now. Eight miles north, though, the road (which was once the main road from county seat to county seat) almost disappears.
This is what it looks like right before it gets scary. (The double-track down the hill)
posted by MtDewd at 2:16 PM on July 2, 2015
It is well maintained. It's also about 10' wide in some places, and steep- some of it I have to do in 1st gear. But worth the trip (in not-winter), if you're in Stowe or Jeffersonville.
A few years ago I started driving north from MtDewd's house...
That must have been mud season- it's pretty smooth right now. Eight miles north, though, the road (which was once the main road from county seat to county seat) almost disappears.
This is what it looks like right before it gets scary. (The double-track down the hill)
posted by MtDewd at 2:16 PM on July 2, 2015
Along with stone walls, it's neat to sometimes run in to day lilies and rose bushes in the middle of woods - those are apparently the hardiest of the garden flowers and another sign a house used to stand there.
posted by maryr at 9:37 AM on July 3, 2015
posted by maryr at 9:37 AM on July 3, 2015
Reminder to locals that our annual party is 22 August. MeMail me if you are interested in attending. Our dirt road is good shape.
posted by terrapin at 10:31 AM on July 3, 2015
posted by terrapin at 10:31 AM on July 3, 2015
The author also blogged about it: Lost Highways
posted by Michele in California at 5:16 PM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Michele in California at 5:16 PM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I hadn't associated the author with BLDGBLOG. I'm always astonished anew when I return to that blog; it's not a site I read regularly, but it has so much excellent writing.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:46 PM on July 14, 2015
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:46 PM on July 14, 2015
I mentioned this article whilst walking along long abandoned stone walls and black raspberry bushes in Vermont this past weekend and was cheerfully informed that Vermont has the highest per capita subscription rate to The New Yorker in the nation.
I also had the best maple creemee of my life (Jericho Country Store, go, go now.) so it was a pretty good weekend.
posted by maryr at 9:24 PM on July 14, 2015
I also had the best maple creemee of my life (Jericho Country Store, go, go now.) so it was a pretty good weekend.
posted by maryr at 9:24 PM on July 14, 2015
Oh, and speaking of Chittenden county - just want to be clear that none of the towns mentioned in the article, including the town of Chittenden, are actually in Chittenden county. Vermont just follows in the grand New England tradition of reusing all the place names with no particular order.
posted by maryr at 9:29 PM on July 14, 2015
posted by maryr at 9:29 PM on July 14, 2015
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