Heavy Barn Find
July 3, 2015 11:21 PM Subscribe
A WWII Panzer tank and other military equipment has been found in the basement of a German pensioner.
Elderly people should be allowed at least one anti-aircraft weapon.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:32 PM on July 3, 2015 [27 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:32 PM on July 3, 2015 [27 favorites]
A panzer is a tank; your title basically says he had a WWII tank tank. The model was a Panther, which was a particularly fearsome late-war model, a response to the extremely capable machines fielded by the Soviets when the Germans first invaded.
I like that the neighbours seem to have known he had it and basically gave a collective "meh".
"Oh sure, Hans with the tank. That scamp."
posted by Palindromedary at 11:54 PM on July 3, 2015 [25 favorites]
I like that the neighbours seem to have known he had it and basically gave a collective "meh".
"Oh sure, Hans with the tank. That scamp."
posted by Palindromedary at 11:54 PM on July 3, 2015 [25 favorites]
I SAID GET OFF MY LAWN.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:01 AM on July 4, 2015 [38 favorites]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:01 AM on July 4, 2015 [38 favorites]
30 years ago, in the snow, I fielded my panzer. It was glorious and sad.
posted by Bistle at 12:11 AM on July 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Bistle at 12:11 AM on July 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's a hell of a basement.
posted by boilermonster at 12:14 AM on July 4, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by boilermonster at 12:14 AM on July 4, 2015 [16 favorites]
I'm kind of concerned that the tank will be destroyed if it proves to be unregistered. If that's a working or near working Panther then even if the owner can't have it back, it needs to be in a museum. There are six others on earth in working condition.
Also I love that he's supposed to have used it to help plow snow at one point: "That nice man with the Panzerkampfwagen V just cleared our driveway" "Yeah, he's good people".
posted by Grimgrin at 12:14 AM on July 4, 2015 [22 favorites]
Also I love that he's supposed to have used it to help plow snow at one point: "That nice man with the Panzerkampfwagen V just cleared our driveway" "Yeah, he's good people".
posted by Grimgrin at 12:14 AM on July 4, 2015 [22 favorites]
Also I love that he's supposed to have used it to help plow snow at one point: "That nice man with the Panzerkampfwagen V just cleared our driveway" "Yeah, he's good people".
file footage.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:19 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
file footage.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:19 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Light bulbs going off for preppers everywhere.
posted by jklaiho at 12:47 AM on July 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by jklaiho at 12:47 AM on July 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ok, what kind of house has a basement that can fit two WWII tanks? Is this guy a count or something?
posted by zardoz at 1:20 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 1:20 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well, one has to add that according to German news (and the pensioner's laywer) all military equipment has been properly demilitarized (holes cut into the armor and drilled into the guns), and the tank didn't even have tracks anymore (that's why they needed the military to recover it).
posted by SAnderka at 1:21 AM on July 4, 2015
posted by SAnderka at 1:21 AM on July 4, 2015
I wonder if he has a sea mine saved for really heavy duty snow clearance.
posted by howfar at 1:41 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by howfar at 1:41 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
1968
"I was thinking it would be nice to have one of those new electrical clothes dryers."
"Where would we put it?"
"Maybe in the basement?"
"Is this your mother's idea? She has never liked my panzer."
posted by biffa at 1:43 AM on July 4, 2015 [29 favorites]
"I was thinking it would be nice to have one of those new electrical clothes dryers."
"Where would we put it?"
"Maybe in the basement?"
"Is this your mother's idea? She has never liked my panzer."
posted by biffa at 1:43 AM on July 4, 2015 [29 favorites]
"Is this your mother's idea? She has never liked my panzer."
"Well maybe if you didn't talk to it and pet it she'd take more of a liking to it."
"...I'm going downstairs."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:01 AM on July 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
"Well maybe if you didn't talk to it and pet it she'd take more of a liking to it."
"...I'm going downstairs."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:01 AM on July 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
"We'll compromise, I'll sell the Stuka to the neighbors, they've wanted one for a while, and move the Sturmtiger to the attic. Plenty of space for a washer/dryer"
I now believe that everyone in this town has WW2 German weapons in their basement.
"Hey Horst! Taking the Wirbelwind out for a spin!"
"Just turning the engines over, how about you, we haven't seen your Tiger for a while!"
"Transmission problems!"
"Hah! Same as always."
posted by Grimgrin at 2:12 AM on July 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
I now believe that everyone in this town has WW2 German weapons in their basement.
"Hey Horst! Taking the Wirbelwind out for a spin!"
"Just turning the engines over, how about you, we haven't seen your Tiger for a while!"
"Transmission problems!"
"Hah! Same as always."
posted by Grimgrin at 2:12 AM on July 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
I want to see the basement! How can anyone have a stash of heavy weapons in their basement???
posted by mumimor at 2:16 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 2:16 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Holy shit, the "anti-aircraft" gun that guy had appears to be an 88mm! That's like one of the most iconic weapons of the war. This guy had a Panther and an 88 in his basement?
I can't even...
posted by Justinian at 2:44 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
I can't even...
posted by Justinian at 2:44 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
And a torpedo! Land, air, and sea, I guess.
posted by bonje at 3:33 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bonje at 3:33 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Hey Horst! Taking the Wirbelwind out for a spin!"
"Just turning the engines over, how about you, we haven't seen your Tiger for a while!"
"Transmission problems!"
"Hah! Same as always."
"Hey, whatever became of Gunther and his Me 163?"
"Dunno- never did see him again."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:41 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
"Just turning the engines over, how about you, we haven't seen your Tiger for a while!"
"Transmission problems!"
"Hah! Same as always."
"Hey, whatever became of Gunther and his Me 163?"
"Dunno- never did see him again."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:41 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
See what happens when you don't have the second amendment to protect your rights? A cautionary tale for everyone in the U.S. this Independence Day.
posted by TedW at 4:23 AM on July 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by TedW at 4:23 AM on July 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
Oops-pretend my last comment was in all caps.
posted by TedW at 4:27 AM on July 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by TedW at 4:27 AM on July 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
It doesn't look like the 88s I've seen in museums, the barrel is too short. There were several models though. Maybe a 105?
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:27 AM on July 4, 2015
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:27 AM on July 4, 2015
Don't see what the fuss is all about: after all, lots of guys have brought home war souveniers.....
posted by easily confused at 4:47 AM on July 4, 2015
posted by easily confused at 4:47 AM on July 4, 2015
I'm in the US, so I know people with serious gun collections, but no one with a torpedo or a tank. This is a whole other level of staying connected to the past.
Local prosecutors were tipped off about the cellar's contents by colleagues in Berlin, who searched the home for stolen Nazi art earlier this year.
Ah ha.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:07 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Local prosecutors were tipped off about the cellar's contents by colleagues in Berlin, who searched the home for stolen Nazi art earlier this year.
Ah ha.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:07 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm in the US, so I know people with serious gun collections, but no one with a torpedo or a tank.
You never met Indiana's own Fred Ropkey.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:39 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
You never met Indiana's own Fred Ropkey.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:39 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
He knew the Soviets would be back someday. This time, he would be ready to properly greet them.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:54 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by double block and bleed at 5:54 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I take it back, the anti-aircraft gun looks similar to this one, though with a truncated barrel. I don't see the photos in the BBC article anymore though.
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:09 AM on July 4, 2015
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:09 AM on July 4, 2015
HERITAGE NOT HATE
posted by PlusDistance at 6:59 AM on July 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by PlusDistance at 6:59 AM on July 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
Someone in my hometown had an 88 sitting on their lawn, although their name was US Army.
posted by lagomorphius at 7:01 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by lagomorphius at 7:01 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
I hope the old man gets to keep his heavy weaponry.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:15 AM on July 4, 2015
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:15 AM on July 4, 2015
Well, it seems he also was holding hitler's horses, so is was not completely innocent... See here. In German.
posted by Akke at 7:57 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Akke at 7:57 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's just pissed off they took it before he figured out a way to get it to
Burning Man.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:04 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Burning Man.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:04 AM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Worth considering: he was roughly 8 years old when the war ended. Under Hitler's regime he would've been required to register for the Deutsches Jungvolk and was legally a member of the Nazi party - but the degree to which German children embraced that status both during and after the war lies all over the map. The majority grew up fervently hating everything they'd been associated with, but if this guy was keeping Hitler's horses then it's quite possible he was one of the other ones, where the propaganda and North Korean-style brainwashing stuck and festered.
Given the justifiably fevered pitch of emotions surrounding the subject, even without languages barriers it can be difficult to get anything like an accurate assessment of whether things like this are genuinely borne of hatred or not. If anyone's seen an interview with this guy I'd be interested in hearing what he says about his motivations.
posted by Ryvar at 10:05 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Given the justifiably fevered pitch of emotions surrounding the subject, even without languages barriers it can be difficult to get anything like an accurate assessment of whether things like this are genuinely borne of hatred or not. If anyone's seen an interview with this guy I'd be interested in hearing what he says about his motivations.
posted by Ryvar at 10:05 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
"It was about a statue entitled "The Wehrmacht" by Arno Breker, which is in the man's garden. "But that is a copy," said lawyer Gramsch."Ugh, yeah. Not good.
posted by Ryvar at 10:10 AM on July 4, 2015
Holy shit, the "anti-aircraft" gun that guy had appears to be an 88mm!
And boy howdy is he taking some flak over that.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:22 AM on July 4, 2015 [18 favorites]
And boy howdy is he taking some flak over that.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:22 AM on July 4, 2015 [18 favorites]
Well, I have to give him credit.
He didn't put crap in his basement. A panther and an an 88 Flak? That's quality.
Get off his lawn and get out of his airspace!
posted by eriko at 11:21 AM on July 4, 2015
He didn't put crap in his basement. A panther and an an 88 Flak? That's quality.
Get off his lawn and get out of his airspace!
posted by eriko at 11:21 AM on July 4, 2015
The proper way to get away with this is to be in a band.
posted by lagomorphius at 12:19 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lagomorphius at 12:19 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why does the Army have to be called in to remove it? Surely they have ordinary heavy tow trucks in Germany that civil authorities can hire. Where does the legal authority to use military resources to confiscate civilian property come from? OK it's a tank, but the guy is still an ordinary citizen and it's not like he was threatening anyone with a trackless tank in his cellar. If he's guilty of some crime for just having it, why not let the cops take him down?
posted by three blind mice at 1:02 PM on July 4, 2015
posted by three blind mice at 1:02 PM on July 4, 2015
When having Panthers and 8.8cm Flak 36s are outlawed, only outlaws will have Panthers and 8.8cm Flak 36s?
I'm assuming the authority goes back to the war; that stuff is property of the Wehrmacht or its successor not the dude with it in the basement.
posted by Justinian at 1:36 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm assuming the authority goes back to the war; that stuff is property of the Wehrmacht or its successor not the dude with it in the basement.
posted by Justinian at 1:36 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh how cute! Sweet old man and his hobby of collecting instruments of Nazi aggression! Down right quaint, isn't it!
posted by latkes at 1:38 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by latkes at 1:38 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
A Panzer weighs about 25 tons, a double-decker bus weighs about 12.5 tons - I wouldn't be so sure they had civil vehicles capable of pulling it!
posted by Drexen at 1:42 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Drexen at 1:42 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Also it had no tracks, presumably the wheels didn't turn, and it may have had to be dragged up some sort of ramp!)
posted by Drexen at 1:44 PM on July 4, 2015
posted by Drexen at 1:44 PM on July 4, 2015
Hmmm, I think I'd like a T-34 myself. Was available early iin the war, and unrivaled till the end of it. Not like the Canadian ones, where you had to hit ONE TINY SPOT on a Panzer or it would bounce off.
posted by Canageek at 2:22 PM on July 4, 2015
posted by Canageek at 2:22 PM on July 4, 2015
Why does the Army have to be called in to remove it? Surely they have ordinary heavy tow trucks in Germany that civil authorities can hire. Where does the legal authority to use military resources to confiscate civilian property come from?
The tank weighs almost 40 metric tons, so it is very heavy. An armoured recovery vehicle (German: Bergungspanzer) was used to remove it from the basement. This Tagesspiegel article says that the operation was complicated because the tank had to be towed and there was not much space where they had to clear a corner.
posted by amf at 2:28 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
The tank weighs almost 40 metric tons, so it is very heavy. An armoured recovery vehicle (German: Bergungspanzer) was used to remove it from the basement. This Tagesspiegel article says that the operation was complicated because the tank had to be towed and there was not much space where they had to clear a corner.
posted by amf at 2:28 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, the military has recovery tools and teams designed and trained for this precise task, and I'm guessing the civilian companies don't. Also, the tank is a pretty valuable artifact and should probably be in a museum instead of rotting in a basement. I'm sure concerns of damaging it were there.
posted by neonrev at 3:15 PM on July 4, 2015
posted by neonrev at 3:15 PM on July 4, 2015
That first photo is great because it depicts an armoured recovery vehicle recovering an armoured vehicle.
posted by furtive at 3:39 PM on July 4, 2015
posted by furtive at 3:39 PM on July 4, 2015
The way the winters are going in the northeast lately, I would LOVE to have a tank for snow removal!
So much more fun than a snow blower.
posted by freakazoid at 4:54 PM on July 4, 2015
So much more fun than a snow blower.
posted by freakazoid at 4:54 PM on July 4, 2015
I am reminded of Ken Hite's adage: "Cats and items of Nazi memorabilia; more than two and people are going to talk."
posted by howfar at 5:40 PM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by howfar at 5:40 PM on July 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I remember talking to a WWII tank vet. He was extolling the superiority of the Panthers and Tigers. So I said, "how'd you guys win?" "Ten Shermans vs. one Panzer equals one dead Panzer." Score one for Allied mass manufacturing.
posted by Ber at 6:23 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 6:23 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wow! I saw an 88 all cleaned up, when we toured the storage/work buildings at the National WWII Museum in New Orleans -- and the damn thing is BIG!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:02 PM on July 4, 2015
posted by wenestvedt at 8:02 PM on July 4, 2015
One caption reads, "The man had also been keeping an anti-aircraft gun in his basement"
Well, obviously -- I mean, all eight tires are flat!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:04 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, obviously -- I mean, all eight tires are flat!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:04 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've heard that before about the ten Shermans vs. one Panzer. Unfortunately each Sherman tank had five people in it!
posted by marxchivist at 6:03 AM on July 5, 2015
posted by marxchivist at 6:03 AM on July 5, 2015
Where does the legal authority to use military resources to confiscate civilian property come from?OK it's a tank, but the guy is still an ordinary citizen and it's not like he was threatening anyone with a trackless tank in his cellar.
The local prosecutors are claiming he violated the Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz (War Weapons Control Act, I think?), although with since they were demilitarized (holes drilled in them, etc) that does seem a bit questionable.
I for one am interested in where exactly this guy was storing all this stuff. The articles I read alluded to a multi-level underground area (I think one article used the term "bunker").
posted by photo guy at 6:52 AM on July 5, 2015
The local prosecutors are claiming he violated the Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz (War Weapons Control Act, I think?), although with since they were demilitarized (holes drilled in them, etc) that does seem a bit questionable.
I for one am interested in where exactly this guy was storing all this stuff. The articles I read alluded to a multi-level underground area (I think one article used the term "bunker").
posted by photo guy at 6:52 AM on July 5, 2015
OK it's a tank
And there's the guy jerking off over the 2nd Amendment trying to apply it to another country.
posted by kjs3 at 6:11 PM on July 5, 2015
And there's the guy jerking off over the 2nd Amendment trying to apply it to another country.
posted by kjs3 at 6:11 PM on July 5, 2015
"A tank in the U.S. can have operational guns, if the owner has a federal Destructive Device permit, and state laws don’t prohibit it. The permit costs $200, and the applicant must swear he hasn’t been a “fugitive from justice,” “adjudicated mentally defective” or convicted of “a misdemeanor crime of dome..."
posted by clavdivs at 6:43 PM on July 5, 2015
posted by clavdivs at 6:43 PM on July 5, 2015
Well, he had some other odds and ends lying around: "On Wednesday, investigators had secured weapons and also a torpedo." (from the Tagesspiegel article)
I guess he wanted to be ready to defend against any enemy, whether it come by land, sea or air.
posted by froghopper at 2:05 AM on July 7, 2015
I guess he wanted to be ready to defend against any enemy, whether it come by land, sea or air.
posted by froghopper at 2:05 AM on July 7, 2015
A tank in the U.S. can have operational guns, if the owner has a federal Destructive Device permit, and state laws don’t prohibit it.
NEW OLD LADY BUCKET GOAL.
posted by corb at 2:29 PM on July 7, 2015
NEW OLD LADY BUCKET GOAL.
posted by corb at 2:29 PM on July 7, 2015
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posted by clavdivs at 11:29 PM on July 3, 2015 [27 favorites]