Berlin Brandenburg has wrecked careers
July 28, 2015 2:58 AM Subscribe
How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6 Billion Embarrassment. Inside Germany’s profligate (Greek-like!) fiasco called Berlin Brandenburg
On May 7, less than four weeks before the scheduled opening, Loge met with Schwarz for the first time. The airport, Schwarz conceded, would have to open using the army of human fire detectors. “Professor, let me understand this,” Loge said. “You are talking about having 800 people wearing orange vests, sitting on camping stools, holding thermoses filled with coffee, and shouting into their cell phones, ‘Open the fire door’?” Loge refused the airport an operating license. Schwarz stood up and walked out without another word.
At the very moment Merkel and her allies are hectoring the Greeks about their profligacy, the airport’s cost, borne by taxpayers, has tripled to €5.4 billion. Two airport company directors (including Schwarz), three technical chiefs, the architects, and dozens if not hundreds of others have been fired or forced to quit, or have left in disgust. The government spends €16 million per month just to prevent the huge facility from falling into disrepair. According to the most optimistic scenarios, it won’t check in its first passengers until 2017, and sunny pronouncements have long since given way to “catastrophe,” “farce,” and “the building site of horror.” There is a noted German word for the delight some took in the mess, too.
On May 7, less than four weeks before the scheduled opening, Loge met with Schwarz for the first time. The airport, Schwarz conceded, would have to open using the army of human fire detectors. “Professor, let me understand this,” Loge said. “You are talking about having 800 people wearing orange vests, sitting on camping stools, holding thermoses filled with coffee, and shouting into their cell phones, ‘Open the fire door’?” Loge refused the airport an operating license. Schwarz stood up and walked out without another word.
At the very moment Merkel and her allies are hectoring the Greeks about their profligacy, the airport’s cost, borne by taxpayers, has tripled to €5.4 billion. Two airport company directors (including Schwarz), three technical chiefs, the architects, and dozens if not hundreds of others have been fired or forced to quit, or have left in disgust. The government spends €16 million per month just to prevent the huge facility from falling into disrepair. According to the most optimistic scenarios, it won’t check in its first passengers until 2017, and sunny pronouncements have long since given way to “catastrophe,” “farce,” and “the building site of horror.” There is a noted German word for the delight some took in the mess, too.
get fired (as any of us would be were we to fuck up our jobs to the tune of billions of Euro)
I think that getting fired after fucking up on that big a scale is not as certain as it should be.
Two things I love about this story... No one wanted the CEO job after Medhorn quit. There's a place in the developed world where a building inspector can call bullshit and make it stick.
posted by rdr at 3:40 AM on July 28, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think that getting fired after fucking up on that big a scale is not as certain as it should be.
Two things I love about this story... No one wanted the CEO job after Medhorn quit. There's a place in the developed world where a building inspector can call bullshit and make it stick.
posted by rdr at 3:40 AM on July 28, 2015 [11 favorites]
At the very moment Merkel and her allies are hectoring the Greeks about their profligacy, the airport’s cost, borne by taxpayers, has tripled to €5.4 billion.
5.4 billion euro is a whopping 0.17% of the German GDP. For Greece, the thing being discussed is an amount much larger than the GDP.
posted by effbot at 4:42 AM on July 28, 2015 [8 favorites]
5.4 billion euro is a whopping 0.17% of the German GDP. For Greece, the thing being discussed is an amount much larger than the GDP.
posted by effbot at 4:42 AM on July 28, 2015 [8 favorites]
I tend to agree with what billiebee is saying, article makes it sound like Schwarz was a demanding client
posted by infini at 4:44 AM on July 28, 2015
posted by infini at 4:44 AM on July 28, 2015
I remember a few weeks after the initial opening date passed and it became clear what a fuckup this whole thing was - I sat in a cinema here in Berlin and they played an ad for the new airport which they apparently forgot to pull, with a sappy 'Berlin, destroyed, devided, but rebuilt' theme...
The whole audience laughed then, but now it's like a running gag that has long since become unfunny.
Only the Postillion still manages to get some good material out of the whole mess.
posted by ts;dr at 4:49 AM on July 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
The whole audience laughed then, but now it's like a running gag that has long since become unfunny.
Only the Postillion still manages to get some good material out of the whole mess.
posted by ts;dr at 4:49 AM on July 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
> At the very moment Merkel and her allies are hectoring the Greeks about their profligacy, the airport’s cost, borne by taxpayers, has tripled to €5.4 billion.
5.4 billion euro is a whopping 0.17% of the German GDP. For Greece, the thing being discussed is an amount much larger than the GDP.
I don't know in what world "€16 million per month just to prevent the huge facility from falling into disrepair" is not considered profligacy.
posted by moody cow at 4:54 AM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
5.4 billion euro is a whopping 0.17% of the German GDP. For Greece, the thing being discussed is an amount much larger than the GDP.
I don't know in what world "€16 million per month just to prevent the huge facility from falling into disrepair" is not considered profligacy.
posted by moody cow at 4:54 AM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
In other German airport related news, it emerged recently that the biggest tax evader in Greece is actually German company Hochtief, who run Athens airport, and had an unpaid tax bill of between 500 million and 1 billion euro.
posted by kersplunk at 5:01 AM on July 28, 2015 [48 favorites]
posted by kersplunk at 5:01 AM on July 28, 2015 [48 favorites]
One detail that stood out for me:
posted by misteraitch at 5:06 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
The team of inspectors […] examined everything from baggage carousels and security gates to the fire protection system. The last was an especially high priority: None could forget the 1996 fire that roared through Düsseldorf Airport’s passenger terminal, killing 17.
Schwarz, who was appointed CEO of the airport management company in 2006. A U.S.-trained economist who’d run Düsseldorf Airport, Schwarz had a reputation as a cost-cutting technocrat…(although Schwarz wasn’t appointed to the job at Düsseldorf until 2001). Apparently Schwarz is now running the presumably rather less prestigious airport in Rostock.
posted by misteraitch at 5:06 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Simple solution: Rename it Erich Honecker Airport, open it as-is.
posted by TrialByMedia at 5:52 AM on July 28, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by TrialByMedia at 5:52 AM on July 28, 2015 [18 favorites]
Look upon my boondoggles, ye mighty, and despair.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:02 AM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by clvrmnky at 6:02 AM on July 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
There is a noted German word for the delight some took in the mess, too."
Frusen Glädjé?
posted by Chrysostom at 6:29 AM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Frusen Glädjé?
posted by Chrysostom at 6:29 AM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
what a horror that Dusseldorf fire was, and totally avoidable.
posted by thelonius at 6:30 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 6:30 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
The tone of this article really gets my contrarianism flowing, though I don't anything major that's wrong in it, the comparisons with Greece are gratuitous. A city isn't a country, and an airport isn't a monetary policy. It also makes weird little digs, like this one: “Smoke now channels upward through chimneys, in accordance with the laws of physics.” Maybe the redesigned smoke handling system was necessary, but smoke-removing HVAC designs are a well-established thing.
My bigger complaint was that it was Wikipedia, not this article, that taught me Berlin Brandenburg was planned because the existing Berlin airports couldn't handle the post-unification traffic growth. That it's more of an expansion of the existing Schönefeld Airport with a new terminal, runway, and highway than a completely new thing. That the plan included closing Tegel and Tempelhof Airports, landlocked and unable to easily expand. That's a paragraph of context I would have liked to have gotten from the article.
posted by traveler_ at 6:59 AM on July 28, 2015 [14 favorites]
My bigger complaint was that it was Wikipedia, not this article, that taught me Berlin Brandenburg was planned because the existing Berlin airports couldn't handle the post-unification traffic growth. That it's more of an expansion of the existing Schönefeld Airport with a new terminal, runway, and highway than a completely new thing. That the plan included closing Tegel and Tempelhof Airports, landlocked and unable to easily expand. That's a paragraph of context I would have liked to have gotten from the article.
posted by traveler_ at 6:59 AM on July 28, 2015 [14 favorites]
Oh god I can't believe they laid down high powered cables next to all of the other cables. How could that even occur with professionals around?
posted by Theta States at 7:10 AM on July 28, 2015
posted by Theta States at 7:10 AM on July 28, 2015
Frusen Glädjé?
Boy, those Germans have a word for everything.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:32 AM on July 28, 2015
Boy, those Germans have a word for everything.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:32 AM on July 28, 2015
According to the 'pedia, the airport's full name is: "Flughafen Berlin Brandenburg Willy Brandt".
posted by notyou at 7:37 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:37 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
It turns out that engineering reality does not always yield to the marketing schedule and, pretty often, you really won't like the result if you try too hard to make it do so. Management here seemed completely oblivious of reality.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 7:38 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by LastOfHisKind at 7:38 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
BentFranklin: "
I'm pretty sure the airport wasn't named after Willy Brandt."
The very first sentence of the linked article: The inspectors could hardly believe what they were seeing. Summoned from their headquarters near Munich, the team of logistics, safety, and aviation experts had arrived at newly constructed Berlin Brandenburg International Willy Brandt Airport in the fall of 2011 to begin a lengthy series of checks and approvals for the €600 million ($656 million) terminal on the outskirts of the German capital.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:46 AM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the airport wasn't named after Willy Brandt."
The very first sentence of the linked article: The inspectors could hardly believe what they were seeing. Summoned from their headquarters near Munich, the team of logistics, safety, and aviation experts had arrived at newly constructed Berlin Brandenburg International Willy Brandt Airport in the fall of 2011 to begin a lengthy series of checks and approvals for the €600 million ($656 million) terminal on the outskirts of the German capital.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:46 AM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Smoke now channels upward through chimneys, in accordance with the laws of physics.This is delightfully understated snark.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:57 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
In other German airport related news, it emerged recently that the biggest tax evader in Greece is actually German company Hochtief, who run Athens airport, and had an unpaid tax bill of between 500 million and 1 billion euro.
Is there a German word for "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:59 AM on July 28, 2015
Is there a German word for "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:59 AM on July 28, 2015
Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:02 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:02 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh man -- how much do I love the irony of a guy named "Loge" talking about an unsafe fire protection system?
posted by holborne at 8:26 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by holborne at 8:26 AM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Loge's Run. Under appreciated sci-fi classic. Filmed in and around futuristic flughavens.
posted by clvrmnky at 9:53 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by clvrmnky at 9:53 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
The blog Ich Werde Ein Berliner, which was like a Berlin-centric variant of Stuff White People Like, once asserted that one of the characteristics of Berliners was pursuing the aim of being as stereotypically un-German as possible with stereotypically German diligence. Perhaps the monumental cock-up around Berlin Brandenburg Airport should be seen in this light?
posted by acb at 2:20 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by acb at 2:20 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
the comparisons with Greece are gratuitous. A city isn't a country, and an airport isn't a monetary policy
But the "Greek-like profligacy!" sort of snark is not about comparing the Berlin airport fiasco to the overall Greek debt crisis, it’s not even a parallel between the two countries or economies as a whole, it’s a parallel on an individual project scale, to the kind of examples of cock-up involving huge amounts of taxpayers money that normally you hear about more often in countries known for their corruption tied up to cock-ups in public spending, like Italy or Greece. That this happened in Germany (and is the biggest example of profligacy with public money and most expensive one, but not the only one there), and that it’s not received much coverage in international media, and that even though German media itself has covered it abundantly most of them sort of temporarily forgot about it when preaching about the profligacy in Greece, is interesting and totally justifies the snark you see as gratuitous here.
Also, the snark has been far far heavier in German media itself and German public debate. Only this kind of story never got much attention outside Germany. At least until the whole Greece vs Germany standoff, Germany has enjoyed a sort of free pass in international media, keeping its image well polished.
posted by bitteschoen at 3:53 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
But the "Greek-like profligacy!" sort of snark is not about comparing the Berlin airport fiasco to the overall Greek debt crisis, it’s not even a parallel between the two countries or economies as a whole, it’s a parallel on an individual project scale, to the kind of examples of cock-up involving huge amounts of taxpayers money that normally you hear about more often in countries known for their corruption tied up to cock-ups in public spending, like Italy or Greece. That this happened in Germany (and is the biggest example of profligacy with public money and most expensive one, but not the only one there), and that it’s not received much coverage in international media, and that even though German media itself has covered it abundantly most of them sort of temporarily forgot about it when preaching about the profligacy in Greece, is interesting and totally justifies the snark you see as gratuitous here.
Also, the snark has been far far heavier in German media itself and German public debate. Only this kind of story never got much attention outside Germany. At least until the whole Greece vs Germany standoff, Germany has enjoyed a sort of free pass in international media, keeping its image well polished.
posted by bitteschoen at 3:53 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: The tone of this article really gets my contrarianism flowing.
posted by psoas at 4:32 PM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by psoas at 4:32 PM on July 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is directly relevant to my interests as I always have to fly into Berlin when I go visit my parents. And it is good news because my father after 15 years has finally learned one driving route to reach Tegel and I would be apprehensive of him trying to switch to Berlin Brandenburg.
Carry on, Germans.
posted by Ender's Friend at 5:43 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Carry on, Germans.
posted by Ender's Friend at 5:43 PM on July 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, this is hearsay, but:
I love this story because it's so human/normal/fucked and so not how 'the Germans' portray themselves to themselves. I say this as someone living in Germany, in Berlin, and I know a good number of architects.
One architect I know mentioned how their clients in Dubai were refusing to hire any German engineering firms - that was about four years ago.
The best story (I collect them partially out of curiosity partly out of anthropological fascination) was about the cursed smoke system. The state of Brandenburg is a little like the Catskills region of NY state - poor and getting damn little from its rich neighbor. So the airport was a massive windfall to which flocked every single contractor in the region (curiously the article doesn't mention the many bribery scandals). Normal - to share the wealth, the fire suppression system gets divided up into sections and each section (physical area) is given to a different contractor, who has to make the section do certain things but how they achieve that is not adequately specified. So the contractors whip shit up. Then, to safeguard their intellectual property (cause maybe they can sell their brilliant solution to Siemens - totally could happen. Totally), they refuse to share plans/schematics with their neighbors - and then a bunch of these contractors get fired (c.f. bribery). And no one knows what/ how they did what they did and they're especially not sharing now they got canned and anyway the plans were lost! The fire system never had a chance.
The total best story out this was just recently. Gilbert Dreyer (who did Potsdammer Platz) suggested digging a tunnel from an old convention center (that would then be terminal one) out to BER. He guesstimates only five years and a billion euros! And then another airport just south of BER! ( because BER won't be big enough...) This material almost writes itself!
I like Tegel and the HBF/Central train station and suspect I'll like this building too, when it opens in 2018. Or '19. And I can take a high speed train there from the old/rebuilt ICC...
posted by From Bklyn at 10:14 PM on July 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
I love this story because it's so human/normal/fucked and so not how 'the Germans' portray themselves to themselves. I say this as someone living in Germany, in Berlin, and I know a good number of architects.
One architect I know mentioned how their clients in Dubai were refusing to hire any German engineering firms - that was about four years ago.
The best story (I collect them partially out of curiosity partly out of anthropological fascination) was about the cursed smoke system. The state of Brandenburg is a little like the Catskills region of NY state - poor and getting damn little from its rich neighbor. So the airport was a massive windfall to which flocked every single contractor in the region (curiously the article doesn't mention the many bribery scandals). Normal - to share the wealth, the fire suppression system gets divided up into sections and each section (physical area) is given to a different contractor, who has to make the section do certain things but how they achieve that is not adequately specified. So the contractors whip shit up. Then, to safeguard their intellectual property (cause maybe they can sell their brilliant solution to Siemens - totally could happen. Totally), they refuse to share plans/schematics with their neighbors - and then a bunch of these contractors get fired (c.f. bribery). And no one knows what/ how they did what they did and they're especially not sharing now they got canned and anyway the plans were lost! The fire system never had a chance.
The total best story out this was just recently. Gilbert Dreyer (who did Potsdammer Platz) suggested digging a tunnel from an old convention center (that would then be terminal one) out to BER. He guesstimates only five years and a billion euros! And then another airport just south of BER! ( because BER won't be big enough...) This material almost writes itself!
I like Tegel and the HBF/Central train station and suspect I'll like this building too, when it opens in 2018. Or '19. And I can take a high speed train there from the old/rebuilt ICC...
posted by From Bklyn at 10:14 PM on July 28, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm surprised that the article doesn't mention the fact that the guy who designed the smoke extraction system, which was such a mess, turned out to be lying about his qualifications and wasn't an engineer at all. He was an engineering draftsman (i.e. someone who draws up plans that an engineer has made). His name is Alfredo di Mauro, and when asked how the mix up happened, he said, "Well, no one ever asked to see my diploma. "
Here's an article about it in English, and here's one in German from the Berliner Morgenpost.
posted by colfax at 1:16 AM on July 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Here's an article about it in English, and here's one in German from the Berliner Morgenpost.
posted by colfax at 1:16 AM on July 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
bitteschoen: is interesting and totally justifies the snark you see as gratuitous here.
Ok, well I have to admit I'm not familiar with the German press in general, or how they've been handling these things. I do manage to catch the DW English news sometimes, but that's pretty much all world news. For what it's worth, most of the media coverage of the Greece crisis I've seen in our media has been really heavy on the tax-evasion, or the particulars of various deals, or how it affects the "person-on-the-street"; not really going into reputations of mismanaged public projects.
So, um, danke schön for the perspective.
posted by traveler_ at 3:44 AM on July 29, 2015
Ok, well I have to admit I'm not familiar with the German press in general, or how they've been handling these things. I do manage to catch the DW English news sometimes, but that's pretty much all world news. For what it's worth, most of the media coverage of the Greece crisis I've seen in our media has been really heavy on the tax-evasion, or the particulars of various deals, or how it affects the "person-on-the-street"; not really going into reputations of mismanaged public projects.
So, um, danke schön for the perspective.
posted by traveler_ at 3:44 AM on July 29, 2015
The thing is, from the few pictures they include it looks like, if opened, it would be a great airport. People have short memories for these things. In ten years, assuming it opens in, say, 2017 and runs well, people will chuckle and make sardonic remarks about incompetence and cost overruns but won't actually really care that much because, hey, it's one of the best airports in Europe.
Articles like this do also make me sort of amazed at the (relative) efficiency of behemoths like ATL and LHR. I really can't imagine what's involved in building places that big from scratch.
posted by pdq at 11:35 AM on July 29, 2015
Articles like this do also make me sort of amazed at the (relative) efficiency of behemoths like ATL and LHR. I really can't imagine what's involved in building places that big from scratch.
posted by pdq at 11:35 AM on July 29, 2015
The total best story out this was just recently. Gilbert Dreyer (who did Potsdammer Platz) suggested digging a tunnel from an old convention center (that would then be terminal one) out to BER. He guesstimates only five years and a billion euros! And then another airport just south of BER! ( because BER won't be big enough...) This material almost writes itself!
Oh wow, I hadn’t heard of that! That’s fantastic! Speaking of airports and crazy stuff, remember all the possible plans that had been suggested by the Berlin Senate/planning authorities for building and landscaping on the former Tempelhof Airport, now park, before the referendum that rejected them and voted to keep it as is?
One of the projects considered (I remember reading on Tagesspiegel, can’t go look for links now but probably won’t be any in English anyway) involved building an artificial lake in one of the field areas, a big lake with a fountain or something, because you know a park needs some water stuff, and I remember the project drawings, it looked huge and crazy like sci-fi stuff. It was one of the plans and it was totally serious and even before the referendum got scrapped because the local authority of planning/landscaping experts (I read this in German so I’m not finding the right words in English for that, sorry) said no, no way, it’s a crazy project, the soil there is not suitable, it would cost a huge amount of money to attempt to build a lake there, it would risk being impossible so dear politicians, forget about it.
The other part of the plan (apart from residential and commercial flats) was to build a new huge public library on one of the outer areas of the former airport, and that too had been pointed out would cost a huge amount of money and would not be as needed as they’d tried to make it sound.
I remember satirical pieces about it, with drawings picturing mayan pyramids being proposed for building on the former airport.
posted by bitteschoen at 4:06 PM on July 29, 2015
Oh wow, I hadn’t heard of that! That’s fantastic! Speaking of airports and crazy stuff, remember all the possible plans that had been suggested by the Berlin Senate/planning authorities for building and landscaping on the former Tempelhof Airport, now park, before the referendum that rejected them and voted to keep it as is?
One of the projects considered (I remember reading on Tagesspiegel, can’t go look for links now but probably won’t be any in English anyway) involved building an artificial lake in one of the field areas, a big lake with a fountain or something, because you know a park needs some water stuff, and I remember the project drawings, it looked huge and crazy like sci-fi stuff. It was one of the plans and it was totally serious and even before the referendum got scrapped because the local authority of planning/landscaping experts (I read this in German so I’m not finding the right words in English for that, sorry) said no, no way, it’s a crazy project, the soil there is not suitable, it would cost a huge amount of money to attempt to build a lake there, it would risk being impossible so dear politicians, forget about it.
The other part of the plan (apart from residential and commercial flats) was to build a new huge public library on one of the outer areas of the former airport, and that too had been pointed out would cost a huge amount of money and would not be as needed as they’d tried to make it sound.
I remember satirical pieces about it, with drawings picturing mayan pyramids being proposed for building on the former airport.
posted by bitteschoen at 4:06 PM on July 29, 2015
traveler_: German media are rather diverse, there is a lot of criticism of government and local government too, and a good deal of satire as well, but ah the Deutsche Welle, it’s awesome and great (the website especially, the amount of content they have there) for a lot of things on the lighter/cultural side, but when it comes to serious topics of public debate and German politics, well... since living here, I’ve come to see it as a sort of benign propaganda machine, it’s their job, really, promote Germany and German business abroad. They don’t skew or misreport on political or local matters, they just give you a very partial picture. I don’t see the DW as journalism, I see it as a promotional channel.
The English section on Spiegel online has a more of a properly journalistic critical overview of political issues and news.
posted by bitteschoen at 4:16 PM on July 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
The English section on Spiegel online has a more of a properly journalistic critical overview of political issues and news.
posted by bitteschoen at 4:16 PM on July 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I will be sorry when they close Tegel - it's such an easy airport to fly in and out of.
The irony about a German company being the largest tax evader in Greece is breathtaking though.
posted by leslies at 7:39 PM on July 29, 2015
The irony about a German company being the largest tax evader in Greece is breathtaking though.
posted by leslies at 7:39 PM on July 29, 2015
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I'm sorry, what? The article seems to strongly suggest that a lot of the issues were down to Schwarz changing plans and ignoring warnings from the people who had to make them happen. You oversee a project which has so far been disastrous, get fired (as any of us would be were we to fuck up our jobs to the tune of billions of Euro) and then get a payout for wrongful dismissal?? Unbelievable.
posted by billiebee at 3:15 AM on July 28, 2015 [2 favorites]