The Last Days of Oot and Aboot
August 1, 2015 5:17 PM Subscribe
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
Will this affect the pronunciations of "serviettes", "parkade" and "homo milk"?
posted by ardgedee at 5:36 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ardgedee at 5:36 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wtf everyone here in Montreal is speaking French.
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:37 PM on August 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:37 PM on August 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
I never heard Canadian accents when growing up in Canada, but now when I go back to visit the accents on all the local TV shows are intense. This new vowel shift is neat. I wonder if I'll hear it when I next go back.
I've never understood why Americans say that Canadians say 'oot' and 'aboot'... it's not even close. There's no 'oo' sound. It's diphthong starting with a schwa and ending in a U. Here's a little tutorial for speaking Canadian.
posted by painquale at 5:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [12 favorites]
I've never understood why Americans say that Canadians say 'oot' and 'aboot'... it's not even close. There's no 'oo' sound. It's diphthong starting with a schwa and ending in a U. Here's a little tutorial for speaking Canadian.
posted by painquale at 5:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [12 favorites]
The vowel shift seems to be affecting both anglophones and francophones.
That's a serious problem, because that means that french-Canadian military units are not immune to this linguistic change that has its epicenter in central Ontario. French. Mrs. French's cat is missing. The signs are posted all over town. "Have you seen Honey?" We've all seen the posters, but nobody has seen Honey the cat. Nobody. Until last Thursday morning, when Miss Colette Piscine swerved her car to miss Honey the cat as she drove across a bridge. Well this bridge, now slightly damaged, is a bit of a local treasure and even has its own fancy name; Pont de Flaque. Now Collette, that sounds like Culotte. That's Panty in French. And Piscine means Pool. Panty pool. Flaque also means pool in French, so Colete Piscine, in French Panty Pool, drives over the Pont de Flaque, the Pont de Pool if you will, to avoid hitting Mrs. French's cat that has been missing in Pontypool. Pontypool.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [65 favorites]
That's a serious problem, because that means that french-Canadian military units are not immune to this linguistic change that has its epicenter in central Ontario. French. Mrs. French's cat is missing. The signs are posted all over town. "Have you seen Honey?" We've all seen the posters, but nobody has seen Honey the cat. Nobody. Until last Thursday morning, when Miss Colette Piscine swerved her car to miss Honey the cat as she drove across a bridge. Well this bridge, now slightly damaged, is a bit of a local treasure and even has its own fancy name; Pont de Flaque. Now Collette, that sounds like Culotte. That's Panty in French. And Piscine means Pool. Panty pool. Flaque also means pool in French, so Colete Piscine, in French Panty Pool, drives over the Pont de Flaque, the Pont de Pool if you will, to avoid hitting Mrs. French's cat that has been missing in Pontypool. Pontypool.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [65 favorites]
I think there are many factors at play here- first of all, there isn't one single Canadian accent. The "oot" and "aboot" linguistic stereotype comes primarily from southeastern Ontario, the Ottawa valley in particular. You hear elements of it in East Coast accents (as Trailer Park Boys illustrates very effectively), and in Prairie accents as well, but in northern Ontario, for instance, those features have never been as pronounced (think of Colonel Tigh from Battlestar Galactica- I always found it amusing that the second-in-command of Galactica was basically a drunk miner from Nipissing).
I think what Maclean's is trying to get at with their weird insinuations about "immigrants," and a "suspected epicentre in urban Ontario," is the emergence of what might be called an "Outer Toronto" accent. That is, a common accent shared by young 2nd and 3rd generation Canadians, from diverse family backgrounds, in places like Scarborough, North York, and Brampton.
It definitely has lower Great Lakes features (this is probably the source of some of the nasal elements that Maclean's describes), as well as features that are influenced by North American popular culture in general (there is some vocal fry in there), but it can also contain features from the English spoken by first-generation Canadians from various South European, East European, Caribbean, and South Asian backgrounds. What's interesting, is that it is also becoming the English that young people who have recently arrived from, say, places in East Africa are now adopting.
Honestly, to me, it sounds a lot like Mila Kunis' accent. However, a "Great Vowel Shift" it is not.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:59 PM on August 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
I think what Maclean's is trying to get at with their weird insinuations about "immigrants," and a "suspected epicentre in urban Ontario," is the emergence of what might be called an "Outer Toronto" accent. That is, a common accent shared by young 2nd and 3rd generation Canadians, from diverse family backgrounds, in places like Scarborough, North York, and Brampton.
It definitely has lower Great Lakes features (this is probably the source of some of the nasal elements that Maclean's describes), as well as features that are influenced by North American popular culture in general (there is some vocal fry in there), but it can also contain features from the English spoken by first-generation Canadians from various South European, East European, Caribbean, and South Asian backgrounds. What's interesting, is that it is also becoming the English that young people who have recently arrived from, say, places in East Africa are now adopting.
Honestly, to me, it sounds a lot like Mila Kunis' accent. However, a "Great Vowel Shift" it is not.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:59 PM on August 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
The English version of “baguette” stops rhyming with “vague-ette,” and “decor” stops resembling “de-core.
No-one in Canada has ever pronounced these words this way.
posted by 256 at 6:00 PM on August 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
No-one in Canada has ever pronounced these words this way.
posted by 256 at 6:00 PM on August 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
My Mi'kmaq has a distinctly downtown turn. I roll my ares just so the Gaelics don't corner the market. My French is from the prairies, a windswept malformed drone.
When I travel people say, "You don't sound Canadian."
I say, "You stand corrected."
My children say "raight?" instead of "eh?" but I'll lose no sleep over it.
posted by Construction Concern at 6:00 PM on August 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
When I travel people say, "You don't sound Canadian."
I say, "You stand corrected."
My children say "raight?" instead of "eh?" but I'll lose no sleep over it.
posted by Construction Concern at 6:00 PM on August 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Damn, now I need to watch Pontypool again.
posted by Existential Dread at 6:07 PM on August 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 6:07 PM on August 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
Fine, so long as it doesn't include the affectation of a rising voice at the end of every sentence that turns it into A QUESTION?
posted by jim in austin at 6:13 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 6:13 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This past week I had Burger King Poutine on the drive back to Chicago from Toronto. That this exists is a powerful reminder that Canadians are not a easily described people. That shit is treasonously bad yet some Canadians make it and some Canadians eat it. So whatever generalizations you have in mind just remember that Burger King Poutine exists and if your generalization/theory doesn't account for that level of variability then you are as wrong as that mess was.
posted by srboisvert at 6:18 PM on August 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 6:18 PM on August 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Fine, so long as it doesn't include the affectation of a rising voice at the end of every sentence that turns it into A QUESTION?
I'm afraid that has been a standard feature of Canadian English for nearly a century.
posted by 256 at 6:23 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm afraid that has been a standard feature of Canadian English for nearly a century.
posted by 256 at 6:23 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Or, to put it another way, "That's been a standard feature of Canadian English for nearly a century?"
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:28 PM on August 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:28 PM on August 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
Canada, eh? What's that all a-boot?
posted by ostranenie at 6:30 PM on August 1, 2015
posted by ostranenie at 6:30 PM on August 1, 2015
Is a parkade the same as a parking garage?
Parkades are generally open-air, unless they're not.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:32 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Parkades are generally open-air, unless they're not.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:32 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm afraid that has been a standard feature of Canadian English for nearly a century.
Well at least now I know who to blame. I always thought it was Moon Unit Zappa's fault...
posted by jim in austin at 6:34 PM on August 1, 2015
Well at least now I know who to blame. I always thought it was Moon Unit Zappa's fault...
posted by jim in austin at 6:34 PM on August 1, 2015
It's a long story, but I'm Rhode Island born with a tendency to slip into a stereotypical Canadian accent thanks to a nun from Toronto who likely died before I was even born. I don't think I've ever been happier than sitting at a Blue Jays game Wednesday night, surrounded by people who talk like me and don't laugh when I say aboat. (Not aboot, never about.) I'm glad I'm safe from this vowel shift in New England. Sore-y, not sore-y.
posted by Ruki at 6:34 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 6:34 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Is a parkade the same as a parking garage?
Probably? I'm a Canadian in my mid-thirties and I've never heard anyone use the "word" "parkade."
posted by Sys Rq at 6:40 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Probably? I'm a Canadian in my mid-thirties and I've never heard anyone use the "word" "parkade."
posted by Sys Rq at 6:40 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
My favorite Canadianism;
"Look at those rediculous decals on that semi."
posted by furnace.heart at 6:44 PM on August 1, 2015
"Look at those rediculous decals on that semi."
posted by furnace.heart at 6:44 PM on August 1, 2015
Could they not actually link to one or two actual audio specimens? That diptych of the SORE-Y mouth and its adversary is kinda not cutting it.
The great canadian vowel shift: go search around for it on youtube if you don't believe me.
posted by batfish at 6:46 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
The great canadian vowel shift: go search around for it on youtube if you don't believe me.
posted by batfish at 6:46 PM on August 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I called them parkades in Edmonton. I think it's predominantly a Western Canadian term. When you do a google search on 'parkade', most of the hits are about parkades in BC or Alberta or Western US cities like Spokane.
posted by painquale at 6:47 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by painquale at 6:47 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ah. So it's like, "What's with all the ginch in parkades, eh?"
posted by Sys Rq at 6:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 6:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
“bagel” like “bahgel”
This is not happening, no.
I don't think this is a particularly believable article.
posted by jeather at 6:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is not happening, no.
I don't think this is a particularly believable article.
posted by jeather at 6:48 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Anyone up for a game of bagel?
posted by Sys Rq at 6:49 PM on August 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 6:49 PM on August 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
I never knew until this moment that ginch was Canadian slang, let alone Western Canadian. I also don't think I've heard that word or thought about it since Junior High. It took me a second to even recognize it.
Baggle.
posted by painquale at 6:54 PM on August 1, 2015
Baggle.
posted by painquale at 6:54 PM on August 1, 2015
Canadian English is feeling its oats.
posted by infinitewindow at 6:59 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 6:59 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
And its aboats.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:05 PM on August 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 7:05 PM on August 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Oh, which reminds me: There was a guy on the Canadaland podcast a while back, some guy who was said to be from Vancouver, and he kept saying aboot. Blah blah blah aboot blah blah aboot blah aboot. First time I'd ever heard someone actually say it like Americans say we say it. And I was like THIS MAN IS A SPY
posted by Sys Rq at 7:09 PM on August 1, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 7:09 PM on August 1, 2015 [20 favorites]
Sys Rq, I know just the interview you mean! It was so distracting!
posted by heatherann at 7:15 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by heatherann at 7:15 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
That first paragraph is deeply muddled, even by the low low standards of linguistics reporting. The stereotypical "oot" and "aboot" are examples of Canadian Raising which is completely orthogonal to the Canadian Shift, as is the use of /o/-as-in-"go" in "sorry". And most of Canada (except Quebec I think) has pre-nasal short-a tensing so "Dan" is not going to sound at all like "Don". And "bagel" has both a lexical incidence thing (is it the same vowel as "cat" or "Kate"?) and an allophone thing (short-a before g is raising, rather than retracting, in many places), so that's doubly complicated and not a good illustration of anything, except maybe a word people like bickering about.
posted by somedaycatlady at 7:19 PM on August 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by somedaycatlady at 7:19 PM on August 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah, and the whole "none of us are noticing" bit is kind of ridiculous when you follow it up with, "First discovered in 1995." Here's a 2004 CBC documentary about it.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:25 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 7:25 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that article is pretty hard to make heads or tails of. It certainly sounds like someone talked to a few linguists, jumped to some odd conclusions, and then wrote them up without checking with anyone. But it's hard to tell because the whole thing is so muddled.
Maclean's, eh?
I'm Canadian and I think I could count on my fingers the number of times I've heard someone unironically say 'eh'.
posted by ssg at 7:32 PM on August 1, 2015
Maclean's, eh?
I'm Canadian and I think I could count on my fingers the number of times I've heard someone unironically say 'eh'.
posted by ssg at 7:32 PM on August 1, 2015
My reaction the first time I went to Quebec City: "Wait, you're not kidding about the whole French thing? That's real? Holy shit. You don't speak English. Surrounded on all sides with English, and you're doubling down. No fucking way."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:41 PM on August 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:41 PM on August 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Wtf everyone here in Montreal is speaking French.
I've heard arguments otherwise.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:52 PM on August 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
I've heard arguments otherwise.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:52 PM on August 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
The one lingering side effect of my grad degree in linguistics seems to be that I absolutely want to throttle people who try to write pop-science stuff about speech sounds.
Trying to explain one dialect's pronunciations using words from another dialect is just a horribly messy and confusing way to go about things. This "Dan"-sounds-like-"Don" business is hopeless — partly because "Don" itself is pronounced differently in different dialects, so "'Dan' sounds like 'Don'" will mean different things to different readers, and partly because in all likelihood "Dan" hasn't actually merged with "Don" but just inched closer to (someone's) pronunciation of it. Or, like, nobody in Canada actually says "aboot." What they say is ab[ʌʊ]t or ab[ɛʉ]t, using vowel sound that doesn't even exist in most varieties of U.S. English, and so us poor USians do a terrible job of imitating it and "aboot" is sometimes the closest we can get.
When I am queen of the world, everyone will learn the IPA in grade school and we'll be able to have intelligible conversations about this stuff. (This is not actually a reasonable plan.)
Until then, give us some damn recordings or nobody will have any idea what you're talking about.
/grump
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:08 PM on August 1, 2015 [28 favorites]
Trying to explain one dialect's pronunciations using words from another dialect is just a horribly messy and confusing way to go about things. This "Dan"-sounds-like-"Don" business is hopeless — partly because "Don" itself is pronounced differently in different dialects, so "'Dan' sounds like 'Don'" will mean different things to different readers, and partly because in all likelihood "Dan" hasn't actually merged with "Don" but just inched closer to (someone's) pronunciation of it. Or, like, nobody in Canada actually says "aboot." What they say is ab[ʌʊ]t or ab[ɛʉ]t, using vowel sound that doesn't even exist in most varieties of U.S. English, and so us poor USians do a terrible job of imitating it and "aboot" is sometimes the closest we can get.
When I am queen of the world, everyone will learn the IPA in grade school and we'll be able to have intelligible conversations about this stuff. (This is not actually a reasonable plan.)
Until then, give us some damn recordings or nobody will have any idea what you're talking about.
/grump
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:08 PM on August 1, 2015 [28 favorites]
I was born in Toronto, raised in Quebec across the river from Ottawa, in the Ottawa Valley. I speak French and English, one of them passably well. I've never said aboot or aboat but I have said about. I do say "eh" and I think I say it a lot. I have friends from BC who sound exactly like I do, but they're from Ontario. I have friends from Newfoundland, and they sound like they're from Newfoundland. I have friends from northern Ontario, and they have a french accent even though they don't speak french at all.
We're just a great big melting pot of accents.
You know what I don't understand? In the movies, why is it that unless people are from Boston, New York, the South and a few other places, they sound just like me? For the life of me, I can't detect an accent in a lot of movies.
Let me digress a little bit more...
A friend of mine was born in Britain, raised in New Zealand and now lives down the street from me. Siri doesn't understand him at all because of his mix of accents. To me his accent is completely British, clean with no slang. How can Siri not understand him? Hey Canadians, has that ever happened to you, where Siri can't understand you?
posted by ashbury at 8:20 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
We're just a great big melting pot of accents.
You know what I don't understand? In the movies, why is it that unless people are from Boston, New York, the South and a few other places, they sound just like me? For the life of me, I can't detect an accent in a lot of movies.
Let me digress a little bit more...
A friend of mine was born in Britain, raised in New Zealand and now lives down the street from me. Siri doesn't understand him at all because of his mix of accents. To me his accent is completely British, clean with no slang. How can Siri not understand him? Hey Canadians, has that ever happened to you, where Siri can't understand you?
posted by ashbury at 8:20 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Almost no one speaks French in Montreal. They speak Québécois. French is very different.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:22 PM on August 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 8:22 PM on August 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
Ashbury, i was from Toronto as well. To your "why can't I pick out an accent in movies" question, i have no academic answer, but I did take this dialect quiz a while back that tells me my "accent" is most distinctively close to that of someone from Los Angeles.
That might explain something.
That and a lot of movies are actually filmed in Toronto. /which probably has nothing to do with anything
posted by Sallysings at 9:23 PM on August 1, 2015
That might explain something.
That and a lot of movies are actually filmed in Toronto. /which probably has nothing to do with anything
posted by Sallysings at 9:23 PM on August 1, 2015
I'm Canadian and I think I could count on my fingers the number of times I've heard someone unironically say 'eh'.
It depends on where you're from. When I came south to Southern Ontario I was surprised how few people said eh. When I was growing up the only people who didn't say eh were my Polish neighbours and the news readers on CBC radio.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:02 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It depends on where you're from. When I came south to Southern Ontario I was surprised how few people said eh. When I was growing up the only people who didn't say eh were my Polish neighbours and the news readers on CBC radio.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:02 PM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wtf everyone here in Montreal is speaking French.
I've heard arguments otherwise.
my limited experience of Montreal, and it's all been good, is that it's a French speaking city in which a lot of people speak English as their primary language.
posted by philip-random at 10:45 PM on August 1, 2015
I've heard arguments otherwise.
my limited experience of Montreal, and it's all been good, is that it's a French speaking city in which a lot of people speak English as their primary language.
posted by philip-random at 10:45 PM on August 1, 2015
Victoria, BC calls parking garages "parkades." It's so cute.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:46 PM on August 1, 2015
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:46 PM on August 1, 2015
parkade is superior. Same meaning, two fewer syllables ... and hardly anyone knows how to properly pronounce garage anyway.
The Clash were wrong*
*
The Clash were never wrong
posted by philip-random at 10:51 PM on August 1, 2015
The Clash were wrong*
*
The Clash were never wrong
posted by philip-random at 10:51 PM on August 1, 2015
parkade is superior. Same meaning, two fewer syllables ... and hardly anyone knows how to properly pronounce garage anyway.
Well.
Moe: "A garage. Well ooh la-di-dah Mr. French Man."
Homer "Well, what do you call it?"
Moe: "A car hole."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:55 PM on August 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Well.
Moe: "A garage. Well ooh la-di-dah Mr. French Man."
Homer "Well, what do you call it?"
Moe: "A car hole."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:55 PM on August 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
the emergence of what might be called an "Outer Toronto" accent.
Ok, yes, thank you for connecting the dots - this exists. I couldn't work out what the hell was meant by "Cahnadah" or "shawvel" or what "Canadian tolerance" might have to do with either.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:51 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ok, yes, thank you for connecting the dots - this exists. I couldn't work out what the hell was meant by "Cahnadah" or "shawvel" or what "Canadian tolerance" might have to do with either.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:51 PM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow - really interesting movie you quoted there and a good reference for this article about Canadian language patterns.
My favorite quote from that movie: something is always about to happen.
If I'd been asked what country I wished to be born in way back then, I would have chosen Canada.
posted by lon_star at 11:59 PM on August 1, 2015
My favorite quote from that movie: something is always about to happen.
If I'd been asked what country I wished to be born in way back then, I would have chosen Canada.
posted by lon_star at 11:59 PM on August 1, 2015
Obligatory example of (exaggerated) rural southwestern Ontario accents. Eight generations after my Irish ancestors emigrated to this part of the country, a large swath of this side of the family all speak like this.
Apparently the YouTube series is based on the real-world town of Listowel, Ontario, 30 minutes away from my family's ancestral (and still working) farm.
posted by Pazzovizza at 12:07 AM on August 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
Apparently the YouTube series is based on the real-world town of Listowel, Ontario, 30 minutes away from my family's ancestral (and still working) farm.
posted by Pazzovizza at 12:07 AM on August 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
Obligatory example of (exaggerated) rural southwestern Ontario accents. Eight generations after my Irish ancestors emigrated to this part of the country, a large swath of this side of the family all speak like this.
That was not words. That was not words!
posted by prismatic7 at 12:55 AM on August 2, 2015
That was not words. That was not words!
posted by prismatic7 at 12:55 AM on August 2, 2015
These changes in the mouth are happening under our noses.
Surely this is a troll.
posted by drowsy at 2:56 AM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Surely this is a troll.
posted by drowsy at 2:56 AM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I didn't hear the upper Midwest vowel shift growing up in Illinois. But since I've moved to LA, it's really distinct. It still comes out in my speech when I'm tired.
posted by persona au gratin at 4:19 AM on August 2, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 4:19 AM on August 2, 2015
And cool article!
posted by persona au gratin at 4:22 AM on August 2, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 4:22 AM on August 2, 2015
Everyone knows that the only CORRECT Canadian accent is Newfoundlandish and Labradorian, and all other so-called "Canadian" accents are but incomprehensible mouth-flatulance, which no right-thinking person can even comprehend.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:03 AM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:03 AM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Oh wait looks like somebody didn't read the link. And is an idiot. Somebody. Anyway ... Does Canada even exist? Apart from Newfoundland and Labrador, I mean.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:17 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:17 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have lived in Canada for nearly seven years now (five in the Eastern Townships of Quebec, now in Southeastern Ontario), am originally from the American South (but I've never had a Southern accent, something which is remarked upon with disappointment whenever I meet people here), but when I do go home to my family in South Carolina, I am told that I now "talk funny."
posted by Kitteh at 5:45 AM on August 2, 2015
posted by Kitteh at 5:45 AM on August 2, 2015
That was not words. That was not words!
For those who are confused by the examples in Pazzovizza's link, I will attempt to provide some translations:
-It is my understanding that young women in the city will employ a service to remove their pubic hair using hot wax. If one wished, one could pull the tail of a cow, and be kicked in the nether regions at no cost whatsoever.
-The cat which lives in my friend's barn had a litter of kittens, one of which my friend took as a pet. It is not intelligent.
-It is frustrating when one wishes to join one's friends at shooting groundhogs near the edge of one's property, but one's father is in possession of one's .22 calibre rifle, and there is so little gas in the tank of one's vehicle, it could be compared to a flatulent discharge.
-There was a confrontation with a food vendor outside of a baseball game in Toronto, over the contents of a sausage which were claimed to be venison, but were assuredly not. Violence nearly ensued.
-While traveling to Buffalo for the purpose of attending an ice-hockey game played by the "Toronto Maple Leafs," it was discovered that while gasoline was agreeably affordable, one could not purchase potato chips of the "All-Dressed" variety, and the place was reminiscent of an outhouse.
-You are attracted to a young woman from a more rural location than yourself, but she breathes through her mouth in a manner that suggests a lack of intelligence, and you have heard that her brother frequently partakes in methamphetamine.
-If the number of dollars in one's wallet was equivalent to the number of deer-heads one has displayed on one's wall, that number would be six dollars, more or less.
-One urinates out-of-doors as frequently as one's dog does.
-Neither Tim Horton's coffee shops, nor McDonald's restaurants, nor the Brewers' Retail outlet keep hours on Christmas Day. This is the entirety of your existence.
One might have, or may have had, half of one's finger amputated by one of three methods: by catching it in the drive-chain of one's motorcycle; by an encounter with a band-saw; or [UNTRANSLATABLE].
-Several coyotes approached your back porch last night, attracted by the scent of your dog's estrus. Their yellow eyes betray their animal instincts, and they are known to damage a door-screen out of a desire to mate.
The appropriate response to nearly all of these statements is: "Jeez, eh?"
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:55 AM on August 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
For those who are confused by the examples in Pazzovizza's link, I will attempt to provide some translations:
-It is my understanding that young women in the city will employ a service to remove their pubic hair using hot wax. If one wished, one could pull the tail of a cow, and be kicked in the nether regions at no cost whatsoever.
-The cat which lives in my friend's barn had a litter of kittens, one of which my friend took as a pet. It is not intelligent.
-It is frustrating when one wishes to join one's friends at shooting groundhogs near the edge of one's property, but one's father is in possession of one's .22 calibre rifle, and there is so little gas in the tank of one's vehicle, it could be compared to a flatulent discharge.
-There was a confrontation with a food vendor outside of a baseball game in Toronto, over the contents of a sausage which were claimed to be venison, but were assuredly not. Violence nearly ensued.
-While traveling to Buffalo for the purpose of attending an ice-hockey game played by the "Toronto Maple Leafs," it was discovered that while gasoline was agreeably affordable, one could not purchase potato chips of the "All-Dressed" variety, and the place was reminiscent of an outhouse.
-You are attracted to a young woman from a more rural location than yourself, but she breathes through her mouth in a manner that suggests a lack of intelligence, and you have heard that her brother frequently partakes in methamphetamine.
-If the number of dollars in one's wallet was equivalent to the number of deer-heads one has displayed on one's wall, that number would be six dollars, more or less.
-One urinates out-of-doors as frequently as one's dog does.
-Neither Tim Horton's coffee shops, nor McDonald's restaurants, nor the Brewers' Retail outlet keep hours on Christmas Day. This is the entirety of your existence.
One might have, or may have had, half of one's finger amputated by one of three methods: by catching it in the drive-chain of one's motorcycle; by an encounter with a band-saw; or [UNTRANSLATABLE].
-Several coyotes approached your back porch last night, attracted by the scent of your dog's estrus. Their yellow eyes betray their animal instincts, and they are known to damage a door-screen out of a desire to mate.
The appropriate response to nearly all of these statements is: "Jeez, eh?"
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:55 AM on August 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
The appropriate response to nearly all of these statements is: "Jeez, eh?"
Or perhaps, "feckin a, right?" That is, if one wants to maintain a constant density of swears across speakers.
I first found that series when on a work trip in Italy. While it was crystal clear to me, some Italians (pretty fluent English speakers) I was working with could not recognize this as English of any kind. Not only did I have to prove that it wasn't gibberish, they required slowing down and translation into Italian as well.
And that is the story of how I learned the Italian word for "donut."
posted by Pazzovizza at 6:17 AM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Or perhaps, "feckin a, right?" That is, if one wants to maintain a constant density of swears across speakers.
I first found that series when on a work trip in Italy. While it was crystal clear to me, some Italians (pretty fluent English speakers) I was working with could not recognize this as English of any kind. Not only did I have to prove that it wasn't gibberish, they required slowing down and translation into Italian as well.
And that is the story of how I learned the Italian word for "donut."
posted by Pazzovizza at 6:17 AM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm Canadian and I think I could count on my fingers the number of times I've heard someone unironically say 'eh'.
It depends on where you're from. When I came south to Southern Ontario I was surprised how few people said eh. When I was growing up the only people who didn't say eh were my Polish neighbours and the news readers on CBC radio.
I grew up on the West Coast and eh just was never a thing even though we were always told it a Canadian thing. Now after travelling and spending time in many different areas it is definitely a thing in a lot of places. I can't remember which town in northern BC but it was 'eh' all over the place. Go to the next town and not so much. I now live in an area where I occasionally notice 'eh' but it's usually older people.
Accents are really cool. I now live in rural Ontario where people that have lived in the area can tell who grew up or lives in a small village (pop 400) by their accent and other ways of talking. It's different then the main town that is only 8kms away. I've even heard talk of how when the kids start going to the high school in the big town some purposely try to lose their accent while others purposely keep it.
posted by Jalliah at 6:28 AM on August 2, 2015
It depends on where you're from. When I came south to Southern Ontario I was surprised how few people said eh. When I was growing up the only people who didn't say eh were my Polish neighbours and the news readers on CBC radio.
I grew up on the West Coast and eh just was never a thing even though we were always told it a Canadian thing. Now after travelling and spending time in many different areas it is definitely a thing in a lot of places. I can't remember which town in northern BC but it was 'eh' all over the place. Go to the next town and not so much. I now live in an area where I occasionally notice 'eh' but it's usually older people.
Accents are really cool. I now live in rural Ontario where people that have lived in the area can tell who grew up or lives in a small village (pop 400) by their accent and other ways of talking. It's different then the main town that is only 8kms away. I've even heard talk of how when the kids start going to the high school in the big town some purposely try to lose their accent while others purposely keep it.
posted by Jalliah at 6:28 AM on August 2, 2015
“bagel” like “bahgel”
This is not happening, no.
I dunno, my (Canadian) spouse pronounces bagel exactly like Britta. It was a glorious moment when I realized this, after watching Community, and realized that the scene had made no sense to them because they couldn't hear the difference from "bahgel" to "baygel."
bagel bagel bagel.
posted by sciatrix at 6:39 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is not happening, no.
I dunno, my (Canadian) spouse pronounces bagel exactly like Britta. It was a glorious moment when I realized this, after watching Community, and realized that the scene had made no sense to them because they couldn't hear the difference from "bahgel" to "baygel."
bagel bagel bagel.
posted by sciatrix at 6:39 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kitteh: South Carolina
That's interesting. When I was in university I used to work in the service industry and it being a university town I met people from all over. One time a young woman from South Carolina came in the store and as I was helping her I made small talk asking her how long had she been in Canada and what brought her here, etc. She was shocked that I was able to tell where she was from.
"I think I sound just like you" she said to me. At first I laughed because seriously I'm a French Canadian from the North there's no way she sounded like me. Awkwardly I realised that she honestly thought she sounded the same or at least like every English Canadian she met. She definitely did not - her accent wasn't some kind comical stereotype but regardless it was definitely there. I tried to save myself by saying I grew up in a different language so American accents are more noticeable to my ears.
For the life of me, I can't detect an accent in a lot of movies.
I wonder if sometimes we don't always hear our accents. Me I can't help hearing them. I had a bank help desk person call me at work and as I started to talk to him I asked "how's the weather in Montreal?" He said "....Nice.... How did you know I was in Montreal?" By your accent I responded. He got very angry with me "I don't have an accent." He completely had a Montreal allophone accent - an accent of someone who spoke a different language and who learned French first then learned English.
Accents for me in TV & Movies are extremely distracting. It can completely take me out of a movie if I hear someone with the wrong kind of accent.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:36 AM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's interesting. When I was in university I used to work in the service industry and it being a university town I met people from all over. One time a young woman from South Carolina came in the store and as I was helping her I made small talk asking her how long had she been in Canada and what brought her here, etc. She was shocked that I was able to tell where she was from.
"I think I sound just like you" she said to me. At first I laughed because seriously I'm a French Canadian from the North there's no way she sounded like me. Awkwardly I realised that she honestly thought she sounded the same or at least like every English Canadian she met. She definitely did not - her accent wasn't some kind comical stereotype but regardless it was definitely there. I tried to save myself by saying I grew up in a different language so American accents are more noticeable to my ears.
For the life of me, I can't detect an accent in a lot of movies.
I wonder if sometimes we don't always hear our accents. Me I can't help hearing them. I had a bank help desk person call me at work and as I started to talk to him I asked "how's the weather in Montreal?" He said "....Nice.... How did you know I was in Montreal?" By your accent I responded. He got very angry with me "I don't have an accent." He completely had a Montreal allophone accent - an accent of someone who spoke a different language and who learned French first then learned English.
Accents for me in TV & Movies are extremely distracting. It can completely take me out of a movie if I hear someone with the wrong kind of accent.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:36 AM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Obligatory example of (exaggerated) rural southwestern Ontario accents.
You can find a variety of grade-eh Ontario accents in Project Grizzly, about Troy Hurtubise's attempts to build a bear-proof suit and be assaulted by bears. The scene where he's holding court in a Timmy's or Country Style is particularly excellent.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:37 AM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
You can find a variety of grade-eh Ontario accents in Project Grizzly, about Troy Hurtubise's attempts to build a bear-proof suit and be assaulted by bears. The scene where he's holding court in a Timmy's or Country Style is particularly excellent.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:37 AM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Obligatory example of (exaggerated) rural southwestern Ontario accents.
This is delightful.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:17 AM on August 2, 2015
This is delightful.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:17 AM on August 2, 2015
Interesting, Ashwagandha, most people I know from Montreal are very clear they have accents. (Unrelatedly, I was horrified to hear Adam Gopnik who grew up in Montreal and whose mother I believe still lives here pronounces the name of the city wrong.)
The accents are interesting here -- the francophone Italian vs the anglophone Italian (Greek, etc), west end Jews vs west island Jews -- it has this weird microcosm of people keeping a few very specific linguistic habits.
(My favourite accent was this francophone from, I don't know, Trois-Rivieres or something, who decided she needed to learn English so went to London for a year. She had the most fascinating accent in English.)
posted by jeather at 8:36 AM on August 2, 2015
The accents are interesting here -- the francophone Italian vs the anglophone Italian (Greek, etc), west end Jews vs west island Jews -- it has this weird microcosm of people keeping a few very specific linguistic habits.
(My favourite accent was this francophone from, I don't know, Trois-Rivieres or something, who decided she needed to learn English so went to London for a year. She had the most fascinating accent in English.)
posted by jeather at 8:36 AM on August 2, 2015
I suspect he was put back on his heels by my comment as I think he was trying to have a neutral accent because he was at a help desk. In fact I think he prided himself on the accent he was cultivating which was subtle but noticeable by me. He likely has had to contend with people who have taken issue with "damn foreigners" speaking "gibberish" on the phone. It is a regular complaint I've heard from my grandmother when dealing with Haitian & French speaking Africans for instance. To be clear, I was fine with his accent and actually like it as it reminded me of Montreal.
When I lived in Montreal, as a young teenager, I had a very strong Northern Ontario accent in French with some funny borrowed accent flourishes from growing up with Gaspesian great-grandparents. I was really picked on for that accent (essentially I sounded like a hick) so I switched to speaking mostly English only. Hilariously, I'd be confused for a Greek or an Italian (there is no way I could be confused for a Greek or an Italian by the way) because of my funny accent which led to other confusions.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:54 AM on August 2, 2015
When I lived in Montreal, as a young teenager, I had a very strong Northern Ontario accent in French with some funny borrowed accent flourishes from growing up with Gaspesian great-grandparents. I was really picked on for that accent (essentially I sounded like a hick) so I switched to speaking mostly English only. Hilariously, I'd be confused for a Greek or an Italian (there is no way I could be confused for a Greek or an Italian by the way) because of my funny accent which led to other confusions.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:54 AM on August 2, 2015
The Maclean's post would be so much easier to understand if there were sound recordings. I am from Vancouver and none of the pronounciations they cited made sense to me. The middle of "about" rhymes with cow. "Bagel" is bay-gull. "Canada" starts with the same "ca" as in "calf".
I can identify people from Toronto and the outer suburbs, as well as people from the Prairies and Maritimes by accent. I can also notice an Ottawa Valley accent, as well as Vancouver Island and Northern BC. Also, old timers from Vancouver say "Vangcouver" and "Kit-sih-lie-no" and "Ca-pih-lie-no". I didn't grow up here, so I just can't seem to get the "Vang" in "Vancouver", no matter how I try.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:55 AM on August 2, 2015
I can identify people from Toronto and the outer suburbs, as well as people from the Prairies and Maritimes by accent. I can also notice an Ottawa Valley accent, as well as Vancouver Island and Northern BC. Also, old timers from Vancouver say "Vangcouver" and "Kit-sih-lie-no" and "Ca-pih-lie-no". I didn't grow up here, so I just can't seem to get the "Vang" in "Vancouver", no matter how I try.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:55 AM on August 2, 2015
it's more of a Venn-couver, I think. No "g".
posted by philip-random at 9:07 AM on August 2, 2015
posted by philip-random at 9:07 AM on August 2, 2015
I was born and grew up in Vancouver and after some out loud talking to myself if I say it in normal conversation mode there is definitely a 'vang' in there. If I say it slow as if I was pronouncing it for someone else to understand it turns to 'van'.
Interesting. Thanks Chausette I never noticed that before.
I don't pronounce Kits or Capilano that way but am familiar with people that do.
posted by Jalliah at 10:06 AM on August 2, 2015
Interesting. Thanks Chausette I never noticed that before.
I don't pronounce Kits or Capilano that way but am familiar with people that do.
posted by Jalliah at 10:06 AM on August 2, 2015
Obligatory example of (exaggerated) rural southwestern Ontario accents.
I'd like to hear a conversation between those guys and Boomhauer.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:08 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd like to hear a conversation between those guys and Boomhauer.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:08 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Almost no one speaks French in Montreal. They speak Québécois. French is very different.
Oh, c'mon. Yes, Quebecois has its quirks, but there is no commonly used definition of French that it doesn't fall under. There are plenty of France French people in Quebec and nobody has any problems understanding them, nor do they have any problems understanding us. Yes, if you get someone from Lac St-Jean with a strong accent a person from France might need a period of adjustment, but so would a lot of native Montrealais.
(I want state for the record that, as a Quebecer, I say "eh" unironically all the time, as do a lot of other people I know.)
posted by Maugrim at 10:09 AM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Oh, c'mon. Yes, Quebecois has its quirks, but there is no commonly used definition of French that it doesn't fall under. There are plenty of France French people in Quebec and nobody has any problems understanding them, nor do they have any problems understanding us. Yes, if you get someone from Lac St-Jean with a strong accent a person from France might need a period of adjustment, but so would a lot of native Montrealais.
(I want state for the record that, as a Quebecer, I say "eh" unironically all the time, as do a lot of other people I know.)
posted by Maugrim at 10:09 AM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
There's also various ways people say Toronto.
The one that sticks out most in mind is the really quick, 'Ta rah nah'
posted by Jalliah at 10:12 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
The one that sticks out most in mind is the really quick, 'Ta rah nah'
posted by Jalliah at 10:12 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are plenty of France French people in Quebec and nobody has any problems understanding them, nor do they have any problems understanding us.
I think that is generally true.
There's a funny exchange about this in Pierre Perrault's film Le règne du jour. The film is about some farmers from Isle-aux-Coudres in Quebec who go to where their ancestors were from in France. The film points out a number of moments when these Quebec farmers, though sharing mostly the same language, confuse and are confused by their distant French cousins.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:37 AM on August 2, 2015
I think that is generally true.
There's a funny exchange about this in Pierre Perrault's film Le règne du jour. The film is about some farmers from Isle-aux-Coudres in Quebec who go to where their ancestors were from in France. The film points out a number of moments when these Quebec farmers, though sharing mostly the same language, confuse and are confused by their distant French cousins.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:37 AM on August 2, 2015
"Jeez, eh?"
Minnesotans can feel free to disagree with me on this one, but having family up around Thunder Bay (by "up around" let's say 300 km radius), I've observed over the years that the accent you'll find common up around there is difficult to distinguish from one you'd find in adjacent northern Minnesota.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:55 AM on August 2, 2015
Minnesotans can feel free to disagree with me on this one, but having family up around Thunder Bay (by "up around" let's say 300 km radius), I've observed over the years that the accent you'll find common up around there is difficult to distinguish from one you'd find in adjacent northern Minnesota.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:55 AM on August 2, 2015
Almost but not quite Tronno
posted by infinitewindow at 10:55 AM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 10:55 AM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
I've observed over the years that the accent you'll find common up around there is difficult to distinguish from one you'd find in adjacent northern Minnesota.
Oh yeah, eh- I used to live with a guy from Duluth who sounded more Canadian than I did.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:42 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, eh- I used to live with a guy from Duluth who sounded more Canadian than I did.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:42 AM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Wait, you're not kidding about the whole French thing? That's real? Holy shit. You don't speak English. Surrounded on all sides with English, and you're doubling down. No fucking way."
Je me souviens,bitch putain.
posted by maryr at 12:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Je me souviens,
posted by maryr at 12:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
A parkade is a lemon-flavored drink made with maple syrup and toasted canola seeds. A delight during the winter season, the drink is aged in barrels then pounded by mittens. This quintessential Canadian beverage is served in hand-carved pine wood cups in all the national parks by friendly beaver pelt harvesters.
posted by storybored at 1:51 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by storybored at 1:51 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, if you get someone from Lac St-Jean with a strong accent a person from France might need a period of adjustment
I once heard Quebecois referred to as "Pig French."
I'd imagine the Minn/Thunder Bay thing is more of a Yooper post-Scandinavian thing rather than the British/French stereotypical-Canadia sound.
posted by rhizome at 2:08 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I once heard Quebecois referred to as "Pig French."
I'd imagine the Minn/Thunder Bay thing is more of a Yooper post-Scandinavian thing rather than the British/French stereotypical-Canadia sound.
posted by rhizome at 2:08 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Maclean's post would be so much easier to understand if there were sound recordings.
In this interview there's a sampling (audio halfway down the page) of some Newfoundland accents.
Man from Conche NL Hits Moose but Can't Remember It.
Note: Not posting this as "LOL NL accents." It was a very serious accident and he's lucky to be alive.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:22 PM on August 2, 2015
In this interview there's a sampling (audio halfway down the page) of some Newfoundland accents.
Man from Conche NL Hits Moose but Can't Remember It.
Note: Not posting this as "LOL NL accents." It was a very serious accident and he's lucky to be alive.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:22 PM on August 2, 2015
Je me souviens, bitch putain.
Nice try but this ain't France, sti!
posted by furtive at 5:13 PM on August 2, 2015
Nice try but this ain't France, sti!
posted by furtive at 5:13 PM on August 2, 2015
I once heard Quebecois referred to as "Pig French."
In Montreal, I was told on multiple occasions that people from France looked down on Québécois French and considered it hickish, hillbilly, and bumpkinish. But now that I live in Europe, I have yet to find a Francophone who has heard of this stereotype. Most of the people from France and Switzerland who I ask are surprised to hear it.
I don't doubt that some Europeans hold this "Pig French" attitude, but it doesn't seem popular or well-known to me. I've only heard it in Canada. I think it might be largely self-inflicted and born of defensiveness? Or perhaps even propagated by Anglophone Canadians trying to denigrate their Francophone neighbors for not being continental enough. But I'm honestly not nearly well-assimilated enough into either Francophone culture to know for sure.
It's definitely the case that Québécois French is super hard for Europeans to understand though. A lot of times they don't even immediately recognize it as French.
posted by painquale at 6:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
In Montreal, I was told on multiple occasions that people from France looked down on Québécois French and considered it hickish, hillbilly, and bumpkinish. But now that I live in Europe, I have yet to find a Francophone who has heard of this stereotype. Most of the people from France and Switzerland who I ask are surprised to hear it.
I don't doubt that some Europeans hold this "Pig French" attitude, but it doesn't seem popular or well-known to me. I've only heard it in Canada. I think it might be largely self-inflicted and born of defensiveness? Or perhaps even propagated by Anglophone Canadians trying to denigrate their Francophone neighbors for not being continental enough. But I'm honestly not nearly well-assimilated enough into either Francophone culture to know for sure.
It's definitely the case that Québécois French is super hard for Europeans to understand though. A lot of times they don't even immediately recognize it as French.
posted by painquale at 6:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have never heard of anyone calling Canadian or Quebec French "pig French" but I have known both Belgian and French people who thought Canadian French (well at least the French I speak...) was pretty funny. In a good-natured way of course. I always found it kind of rich that Belgians thought I spoke with a funny accent! I think joual or chiac are kind of hard to understand if you didn't grow up with them but I think you can get used to them. But Quebec French is certainly not all joual.
I have noticed that younger Quebec singers seem to go for a more neutral French accent which I assume is to appeal to a wider francophone audience.
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:18 PM on August 2, 2015
I have noticed that younger Quebec singers seem to go for a more neutral French accent which I assume is to appeal to a wider francophone audience.
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:18 PM on August 2, 2015
one could not purchase potato chips of the "All-Dressed" variety, and the place was reminiscent of an outhouse.
While delicious, all-dressed chips are a dim colonial shadow of Prawn Cocktail crisps, much the same as Fresca is an enjoyable colonial Lilt.
The UK has long been bested at almost everything, with the exception of crisps and pop. Also possibly black humour, but it's a close run these days.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:24 PM on August 2, 2015
While delicious, all-dressed chips are a dim colonial shadow of Prawn Cocktail crisps, much the same as Fresca is an enjoyable colonial Lilt.
The UK has long been bested at almost everything, with the exception of crisps and pop. Also possibly black humour, but it's a close run these days.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:24 PM on August 2, 2015
I don't doubt that some Europeans hold this "Pig French" attitude, but it doesn't seem popular or well-known to me.
It is widely believed that they do in Quebec, whether it's true or not.
I don't have too many problems believing there's an element of truth to it. I've seen first hand instances of English people denigrating Canadian/American English, in a classroom no less. Some people like to draw on the "purity" and "authenticity" of their language as a source of self worth. Just another type of grammar nazi, not unique to any linguistic background in particular.
posted by Maugrim at 3:57 AM on August 3, 2015
It is widely believed that they do in Quebec, whether it's true or not.
I don't have too many problems believing there's an element of truth to it. I've seen first hand instances of English people denigrating Canadian/American English, in a classroom no less. Some people like to draw on the "purity" and "authenticity" of their language as a source of self worth. Just another type of grammar nazi, not unique to any linguistic background in particular.
posted by Maugrim at 3:57 AM on August 3, 2015
I think French speakers have some kind of inbuilt thing about the purity of the beautiful language. I've never heard a Francophone West African admit pidgin French even exists, in contrast to people who speak West African pidgin which is pithy and salty and expressive and appreciated as such.
posted by glasseyes at 1:40 PM on August 4, 2015
posted by glasseyes at 1:40 PM on August 4, 2015
all-dressed chips are a dim colonial shadow
..wretched culinary mistake that needs to be burned with fire
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:54 PM on August 4, 2015
..wretched culinary mistake that needs to be burned with fire
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:54 PM on August 4, 2015
I did a job in Chicoutimi (lac St-Jean) last year (Jan-March (it was cold as fuck and I helped tons of guests thaw their snowmobiles to get them running in the morning (we also had a hostage situation there))) great fun, anyway, an 80 room Comfort Inn we stripped modified and rebuilt, and it being a construction site I was looking forward to the regional accent (and it is ... la là) but there is really no adjustment to understanding, it is still Quebecois. It took me a couple days to adjust my speech to excluding all English while talking. In Montreal you just talk, even if you are talking to an English person you can still stick French words or expressions in your sentence, if you can't think of the word fast enough or the French expression conveys your point more precisely. Same thing in French you talk along and if you are drawing a blank, you throw an English word or expression at the problem (always checking for comprehension, perhaps throw the translation in there if needed) and keep on trucking. But in Chicoutimi I would get blank stares at any English word. But because you don't have to switch languages there the adjustment is effortless and it is fun break to not having your wires crossing constantly. And even the Comfort Inn had to be given a French accent. Comfort is a word in french (means the same) so needs to be said that way, Inn is meaningless so it gets tagged to Comfort as an ending or rather it all becomes a single word. I have way more trouble with some accents from France usually with movie translations. People from France are fine but they can put on accents and throw around slang where I'm like, I know those words but don't have a clue what you just said (crossez-vous dites). We do get our French poo-pooed and it is done in (somewhat) jest but it is still irritating. We are referred to as le p'tit cousin (the little cousin) so there is this perception of not being authentic French, we are related but we are seen as underlings ... so we push back and throw heavy Quebecois in their faces and tell them this joke with the same (somewhat) jest;
Q: What is the best thing about a tourist from France?
A: They leave.
But really it is always fun when someone brings someone from France over because we do enjoy discussing cultural differences, societal differences and language and then we tell jokes;
Q: What is the difference between peas in a can and peas in an aquarium.
A: In the can the peas are green, in the aquarium they are red. (les poission rouge / les pois sont rouge)
posted by phoque at 6:23 PM on August 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
Q: What is the best thing about a tourist from France?
A: They leave.
But really it is always fun when someone brings someone from France over because we do enjoy discussing cultural differences, societal differences and language and then we tell jokes;
Q: What is the difference between peas in a can and peas in an aquarium.
A: In the can the peas are green, in the aquarium they are red. (les poission rouge / les pois sont rouge)
posted by phoque at 6:23 PM on August 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
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