Mr. Robot vs True Detective, hacker anti-hero against corruption
August 12, 2015 9:02 PM   Subscribe

Literally everything fans say they want from True Detective (previously) is being done much better by a ridiculously titled show on the USA Network about a computer hacker: Mr. Robot. The show, which airs new episodes on Wednesdays ... is one of the best in years about what it means to be a man in modern America.
This was an article on Vox, but the message has been repeated elsewhere: What True Detective could learn from Mr. Robot, the real best show on television (The Week); Forget this awful season of 'True Detective' and start watching 'Mr. Robot' (FTW, USA Today). Vanity Fair called it "Walter White for the Digital Age." And if you're nervous about how hacking could be realistic and exciting, Wired says Mr. Robot is the best hacking show yet -- but it's not perfect. (Assume some level of spoilers for both shows.)

FanFare: True Detective and Mr. Robot (also assume episode summaries may spoil some elements of the show)

Tunefind for Mr. Robot, season 1 (Tunefind, previously)
posted by filthy light thief (76 comments total) 45 users marked this as a favorite
 
I added the ellipsis to the pullquote because it looks like the episodes aren't (currently) on Hulu, except for episode #4 for some random reason (episode 8 aired tonight). The pilot episode was available on YouTube a month before the show first aired on TV (and was popular enough to get the show a second season before the first officially started), but that's down now and the only thing on the official Mr. Robot YouTube channel are clips and episode teasers.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:13 PM on August 12, 2015


Mr. Robot is available for two bucks a pop on Amazon Prime. I'm tempted to add this to our current regimen of Humans and Orphan Black.
posted by vverse23 at 9:35 PM on August 12, 2015


A hacker at his level wouldn't be using GNOME, he'd be using Enlightenment and complaining to any executive who would listen that "SystemD" is a violation of Unix philosophy.
posted by Poldo at 9:38 PM on August 12, 2015 [21 favorites]


I haven't watched True Detective so I couldn't tell you how it compares, but as a person with a career in programming that was kicked off by an adolescent more-than-healthy interest in how phones work, I can say that I greatly enjoy this show. I've long since given up on caring about how realistically hacking is portrayed in entertainment, but the commands that he was typing in the pilot were real enough that I went searching for the manual page of the one I didn't recognize (turns it it was made up.) Thankfully, after the first episode it stays more or less clear of the "let's watch someone type" kind of hacking scene. The attacks as depicted are mostly at least semi-grounded in reality, the plot is entertaining, and the unreliable narrator aspect keeps it interesting. However, my wife dislikes this show to the point that she prefers I watch it alone after she's gone to bed, so it's definitely not for everyone.
posted by jordemort at 9:50 PM on August 12, 2015 [7 favorites]


Just got the Fanfare page up for the latest (mindfuck of an) episode up.
posted by Catblack at 10:15 PM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


he'd be using Enlightenment

lbh he'd be using wmii or ratpoison
posted by en forme de poire at 10:22 PM on August 12, 2015 [10 favorites]


That most recent episode? Where they turn that lame voiceover into a plot point and the audience into a character? Ha-ha. Okay, you got me. I'm all the way onboard.
posted by notyou at 10:43 PM on August 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


awesome or i3

begun, this wm war has.
posted by dragstroke at 11:20 PM on August 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


umm... xmonad?
posted by destrius at 12:48 AM on August 13, 2015 [8 favorites]


I've been hearing a lot of praise that makes this show sound like the kind of thing I ought to really enjoy (especially the comparisons to True Detective). But I tried watching the first episode a while back, and gave up 30 minutes in because I was cringing so hard at the "hacking" dialogue. Clearly, the writers had some technical consultants who know what they're talking about, because all the right buzzwords are there, and nothing's technically wrong. But somehow, every line seems to have been coated in a layer of TV-drama-speak that plunges it right into the middle of the "this is not the way real people talk about these things!" uncanny valley. In a way, it's harder to swallow than if everything was totally wrong and made-up.

Are the later episodes any better? I kind of want to give it another shot, as long as the payoff is worth powering through the annoying parts.
posted by teraflop at 1:12 AM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]


Yes, the later episodes are better. The reason to watch the show isn't in the details of the hacks, but in the nuance of the main character's angst. In the first episode you might think it's going for some easy 'occupy wall street' territory, but it isn't. The hack is the rock these little Sisyphus' are pushing, but once the counterpoint to Elliot, Tyrell, shows up, the show reveals it's loftier ambition. One of identity and survival in a hostile system when one lacks the empathy required to fit in.
posted by Catblack at 2:08 AM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]


It does get better, but I know exactly what you mean teraflop. The whole thing sounds like there were two voices: the writer and the technical consultant, and both are fairly good at their jobs, but they obviously aren't the same person. Everything technical went through this translation layer first. It's not terrible, but it's not like reading Neil Stephenson or Daniel Suarez or an author who clearly knows both.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


But I tried watching the first episode a while back, and gave up 30 minutes in because I was cringing so hard at the "hacking" dialogue.

I couldn't even get past episode names. Quoting Trent Reznor: You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable?
posted by lmfsilva at 3:11 AM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]


The show lost me around episode 3, where the character development (read: explicitly pointing out who is psychotic, who deep down is a warm kind-hearted person, etc) was becoming more important than the plot.
posted by Captain Fetid at 3:45 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


lmfsilva: "You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable?"

We have a phrase for that in spanish: "verguenza ajena" trans.: "other embarrasment".
posted by signal at 3:48 AM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]


"You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable?"

And the German word is "Fremdschämen". :)
posted by mortimore at 3:50 AM on August 13, 2015 [12 favorites]


The show, which airs new episodes on Wednesdays ... is one of the best in years about what it means to be a man in modern America.

Oh neat, I've been looking for a show that deals with tropes of masculinity while being a minority in white dominated America, will check it out, thanks!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:19 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


signal/mortimore...thats amazing. and now im on a hunt for a decent foreign word of the day list...
posted by brainimplant at 4:20 AM on August 13, 2015


Are there any blogs that talk about hacking the way the ICU nurses' blog that was posted recently does? I'd like to know more about what hacking actually entails these days.
posted by gucci mane at 4:30 AM on August 13, 2015


If the "uncanny valley" that people are talking about above is of the same order as that on Breaking Bad, i.e. it's tweaked a bit so that you no more get an idea of how to actually hack any more than you could learn how to cook meth from watching BB, then I'm OK with that.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:48 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]




I have some problem with the "voice" of the show. The hacking hand waving is a bit different but, well, meh. The detail that takes me out of the narrative immersion is calling the big evil corporation conspiracy "EVIL CORP". Does that mean all the action is in Elliot's head? Is the entire show within one of his fever dreams and he'll awake, recover and go to work? Will the threads pull together in a surprising but rational way? Is it trying to be meta-meta-meta? No one will call themselves "evil" but they seem to? I guess we shall see, or not. Seems like a conceit that could leave a lot of threads hanging.
posted by sammyo at 4:58 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


There's definitely a lot of problems with the show, but I've been really, really enjoying it. I feel like it has some of the best directing and cinematography on television right now as well. Seriously so good. Everything in the show seems to be getting better as episodes go on.
posted by mayonnaises at 5:21 AM on August 13, 2015


"You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable?"

Vicarious Embarrassment?
posted by djeo at 5:26 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


I thought the show was okay -- and the lead was great -- but most of the side characters are horrible. The female hacker was poorly cast, as was Christian Slater, I thought. I gave up after 4 episodes. Looking forward to seeing the lead actor in other things, though.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 5:28 AM on August 13, 2015


Zsh and vim 4 lyfe!
On a less silly note: Mr. Robot is currently the most popular show in my cloud engineer and DBA circles. That's some heavy duty nerdery, but is also almost entirely white dudes, so ymmv.
posted by mfu at 5:29 AM on August 13, 2015


I admit I'm surprised to read the good reviews - my exposure to the show was from the endless ad loops on Xfinity's OnDemand menu. Whenever I've encountered a show there, I can almost smell the flop-sweat pouring out over the coax.

I'll give it a shot now.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:37 AM on August 13, 2015


Is bspwm still a thing?
posted by shakespeherian at 5:38 AM on August 13, 2015


I wanted to like this so hard. All of the ingredients are there. But I pulled out after about five episodes when my eyes broke from rolling too hard.

teraflop's comment is dead on. I feel like the actor should have done a read through with some tech people so they could coach him as to how his character would react to certain things. I realize the director/producers are trying to inject drama into source material they perceive as sterile and dull, but they're overdoing it. It doesn't approach Hackers bad, but it still makes my teeth grate.

Elliot's antagonist and the nominal villain is hilariously bad. Not the actor, the character. He's a mishmash of egotists and sociopaths from pop culture, like somebody grew a bad guy in a test tube.

Christian Slater is horribly miscast, and the supporting hackers have zero chemistry and choke on the technical dialog worse than the lead.

I'm sure the first half of the season, or maybe the whole first season, was probably a huge misdirect plotwise and it's going to snake and turn in unexpected ways, but the setup is so cliche I couldn't power through.

I do like the lead, though.
posted by echocollate at 6:19 AM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]


Everyone knows depictions of hacking in the media reached their peak in 1995's Hackers.

I wish it was still cool to call yourself things like Zero Cool, Acid Burn, and Crash Override.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:20 AM on August 13, 2015 [6 favorites]


My wife and I watched the first few episodes, and dropped out after that. The technobabble is close enough to fool the uninitiated, but sounds like someone reading a phonetic translation of a language they don't understand.
posted by blue_beetle at 6:28 AM on August 13, 2015


Everybody arguing about the WM he'd use is way off base. IRL he'd have a burner chromebook running bog-standard Kali and any actual attacks would be launched from a VPS in eastern europe or whereverthefuck.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 6:28 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


However, my wife dislikes this show to the point that she prefers I watch it alone after she's gone to bed, so it's definitely not for everyone.

Yup, that'd be our house. I cannot stand this show, and I usually like things in the computer-y sphere. My husband has been known to watch shows I hate just to get my running commentary of disgust (Arrow seems to be the particular favorite for that) but I can't even bring myself to half pay attention to Mr Robot to let loose my usual. The voiceover makes me cringe, for one. It's like listening to every half-feral tech dude I've ever worked with babble in a monotone about nothing at all. Seinfeld for the spectrum. Hate it.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:37 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm unconvinced, and happy to find others; between the:
- easy 'occupy wall street' territory / libertarian Fight Club wet dream / gifted white male existential angst,
- forced exposition - little is just shown or implied, most is repetitively explained in internal monologues and dialogues,
- evil rich people, cheating jock, token minority hacking team, damsel in lethal distress and other tropes, with way too little humour,
- tech talk that's sort of accurate but is mostly name dropping/deus ex machina, and was already done better (the Social Network, tGwtDT, Sillicon Valley),
posted by thelamest at 6:40 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


I really liked the first episode. Then it didn't show up, didn't show up, didn't show up, hey is there something else on TV?
I found other things to watch.
When it finally started running semi regular I couldn't talk myself into watching it.
I feel like it's an exercise in masochism - how much of this guys pain can you take?
Turns out one episode is all I've got in me.
posted by evilDoug at 7:06 AM on August 13, 2015


Pfft. Enlightenment. Real hackers use Awesome.
posted by clvrmnky at 7:11 AM on August 13, 2015


I'm not a tech person, so I can't speak to that aspect, but there are three things about Mr. Robot that strike me as being completely and MOTHERFUCKING dead on and that keep me coming back and back and back:

1. The portrayal of immigrants: As a second-gen Asian American, it's been fucking amazing seeing how well this show handles immigration themes. There is a scene in a recent episode where an Iranian-American girl talks about how she is participating in fsociety because she rejects the respectability/work hard, keep your nose clean, consumerism is the American Dream position of her parents. It was remarkable seeing diaspora issues so intelligently and sensitively articulated onscreen in something that isn't marketed, like Fresh Off the Boat, as being all about diaspora stuff. The actress who plays the Iranian-American character is remarkable, and like. I'm not an expert in Iranian cultural diaspora issues by any means, but the detail about how her parents fled Iran in the 1970's and how that reframes Trenton in a hijab and doing dawn prayer and how that specifically ties in with her rejection of consumerism?

It struck me as a wonderfully nuanced and nothing that I ever expected to see on a TV network like USA.

Similarly, there was a great fucking scene in the episode from this week when the police show up at the door of two characters who are (apparently? I'm told?) Swedish and Danish immigrants respectively? And the wife is holding onto her husband and says something in non-English to him and the cops are like WE DON'T CARE HOW DISTRESSED YOU ARE SPEAK ENGLISH LADY >:|. That is a really familiar experience to a lot of immigrants. (It was also really rad because for the past few episodes, you've only been hearing her speak in a non-English language. And then all of a sudden, bam, no, she's perfectly capable of speaking barely accented English, but is more comfortable in another language, and well, fuck you, people, for forgetting that immigrants speak English just as good as you folks.)

2. The portrayal of women: At the start of the show, it feels like you're being set up with the good girl from next door that is Elliott's best friend, and the manic pixie dream girl. A little later, is that another manic pixie dream girl????? Who is going to rescue Elliott by making him FEEEEEEEL???? But this is Mr. Robot, and things aren't what they seem, and the show really makes a point of subverting all of your expectations regarding the stories that can be told about women. The very-angelic-looking, actually-named-Angela girl next door is capable of lying and murder and revenge and plotting and agency and doing and wanting things on her own, y'know? It's not flawless, but goddammit, lady characters are complicated and are much, much more than their tropes. I can't even TELL YOU how much I'm enjoying Mrs. Willick and Angela and Trenton in particular.

3. The portrayal of corporate power plays and structures. Like. The way that tech people watching this show feel about the hacking approximates how how I feel, as somebody who has spent a decade or so in corporate-landia, about how corporate life gets portrayed in most shows. It's ludicrous. It's overblown. The chest thumping in things like Suits or the Good Wife or even things I enjoy like House of Cards are ludicrous.

And Mr. Robot definitely plays a lot of shit up for drama, especially Tyrell as Patrick Bateman, but the bones are there and deeply resonant for me -- the middle management frat bros who talk like they want to be your buddy and get all the fuck in your personal space, but when coaxing you to do a solid for them doesn't work, they fucking pull rank in a nasty way. The power politics of the corporate jungle, and how the CEO shuts Tyrell the fuck down when he has no interest in meeting with him, then closes with a compliment that sounds personal but isn't, then hands Tyrell off to somebody whose job it will be to give a shit about his feelings. The way that a competitor to Tyrell shuts him down, too, with that burning little aside about, "Still living in Chelsea and paying a mortgage?"* after we saw how the comeptitor lives in a classic, gorgeous pre-war glory of an apartment The way that Gideon tries to bond with a stand-offish but highly valued subordinate on a corporate by revealing something personal about himself.

And above all, the way Terry fucking Colby muscles Angela out of that big meeting. I can't even deal with how accurately and deeply well-portrayed that was. As a small, femme, young-looking woman in corporate space, I wanted to make Mr. Machine pause the episode so I could do a fucking VICTORY LAP around the house after watching it, because oh man.

* So far, by the way, the set-dressing and where people live in New York has been DELIGHTFUL and really reflective of Sam Esmail having spent time in New York. The young, middle class couple has a little boxy starter apartment with Pottery Barn furniture. The young, rich, upwardly mobile corporate climber and his wife live in a light-filled modern-as-hell two-story condo in Lower Manhattan. The established, rich, powerful corporate master and his trailing-but-still-prestigious wife have a beautiful pre-war glorious apartment with just enough modernity so that it doesn't look dated. The hip, rich tech exec and his husband live in a waterfront apartment, probs in Brooklyn, that looks like part of a converted industrial warehouse. This is a delightful contrast even to USA network shows I love, like White Collar, where I spent a lot of time screaming HOW DOES PETER AFFORD A HOUSE LIKE THAT IN FUCKING NEW YORK CITY ON AN FBI-SALARY???? HOW WELL DOES PARTY PLANNING PAY ELIZABETH?????
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:11 AM on August 13, 2015 [39 favorites]


Sorry about the uh. Utter text wall.

We watched this week's episode last night, and Mr. Machine and I spent a good five minutes afterwards just sitting on the couch yelling OH SHIT over and over and scaring the cat.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:12 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


joyceanmachine you should join us in fanfare, where your wall of text will be most most welcome!
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:27 AM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


I wanted to like this show because it seems to get really great reviews from a lot of people, but I really couldn't. The main character (or maybe just his voiceover) bothers me extremely, the techspeak seems like it's trying too hard. its future plot twist is so obvious, and all in all, I feel like I would need to consume drugs to actually get the show.
posted by subversiveasset at 7:32 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am in fanfare, actually! I've been posting in some of the Mr. Robot threads and legit ran over there last night to be sadfaced about the lack of thread for the last episode. It looks like there is one now tho. :D :D :D
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:35 AM on August 13, 2015


We've had a really interesting experience watching the show, in that we've declared that this is it, we're going to stop watching this show 1/3 of the way through an episode and been hooked again by the end.

It's an interesting show, for sure, and there's some thoughtful stuff happening in the writers' roon.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:55 AM on August 13, 2015


"You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable?"

The Office was an international hit, so probably.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:16 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


By the way, I'm deeply amused that this far into the thread, nobody has tried to argue that True Detective is better than Mr. Robot.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:21 AM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm guessing the group of people who have seen both is relatively small.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:27 AM on August 13, 2015


The detail that takes me out of the narrative immersion is calling the big evil corporation conspiracy "EVIL CORP". Does that mean all the action is in Elliot's head? Is the entire show within one of his fever dreams and he'll awake, recover and go to work?

I don't think it's a fever dream, but a highly unreliable narrator who (intentionally and unintentionally) warps his perception of the world and the viewer sees much of the world through his eyes, which I know can send some people for a spin, trying to find solid ground. The latest episode spins things even more, which I found to be a fun little mindgame, but may be a step too far for some.


By the way, I'm deeply amused that this far into the thread, nobody has tried to argue that True Detective is better than Mr. Robot.

TD doesn't fuck up technical terminology, I guess. Beyond that, most people agreed that True Detective season 2 was a hot mess, but I'd be interested to hear what people who liked TDs02 think of Mr. Robot.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on August 13, 2015


I don't really understand the critique of the tech in the show. I have worked with computers all my life (3d graphics / compositing / etc, so not exactly CS) and a lot of my friends and colleagues are full-on CS guys / programmers who have actually hacked in the past or have intimate knowledge of how to do so. While a lot of them have said things to the effect of "I wish the show would have consulted me first" everything does seem more legit than TV has ever been when it comes to representing the underground computing world.

Having grown up hanging out on mIRC in the warez scene, spoofing emails with friends, using ccgens, playing with phreaking and various dumb teenager nerd illegal-type computer stuff etc. this show seems closer to the mark of capturing that milieu than anything I have ever seen. As someone who still occasionally participates in the darknet-bitcoin-linux-encryption world a lot of what I see on the show is pretty much like "yeah, that's more or less how that would go down."

While my friends are better on the actual specifics of what would be typed in the terminal and what flavor of linux distro would be used - as a person who is a non-CS-major advanced computer user and has a social circle of folks that are semi real-world equivalents of Elliot...to me this show seems spot on.

Also, just the drug use of the underground computer user scene strikes home to me. Like...as far as my experience goes that is A Thing. I would say more than half of the guys I know that could actually pull of some cinematic style hacking are quite fond of drugs.
posted by jnnla at 8:38 AM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]


I don't know what oddball thing about me is responsible for this, but I almost never mind voiceovers. I know they are sometimes perceived as intrusive and/or lazy ("the character should be able to convey what they're feeling without constantly telling us," of which the best current example is Richard Armitage on Hannibal, although most viewers already know his character's headspace well from the book). But they don't seem any more artificial to me than all the other artifices of literature. So while they can be a problem in extremely naturalistic slice-of-life type media, this show is clearly not that. And this is one case where voiceover is essential because Elliott's running internal monologue is hugely important and also because the audience is a character he invented to talk to.

The "Evilcorp" thing was addressed directly early in Ep 1: it's a self-hack Elliott purposely made to his own perceptions so that every time anybody says E-corp's name, he automatically hears it as Evilcorp. And we hear it that way because we're in his head.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:40 AM on August 13, 2015 [7 favorites]


Brandon Blatcher: I've been looking for a show that deals with tropes of masculinity while being a minority in white dominated America, will check it out, thanks!

Maybe it's just my read, but I don't think there's such a focus on "what it means to be a man," as "what it means to be a person in the modern world," complete with the rich and poor ("there is no one in the middle anymore" was mentioned at the beginning of this last episode by a female character who I think has really developed), the American Dream for immigrants (one of the hackers is a young lady whose parents came from Iran and died in debt in the US, while still going on and on about the beauty of the American Dream), callous disregard for human costs in business decisions, especially related to hazardous materials, and simply coping with the world while trying to appear normal, happy and well-adjusted to everyone else.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:49 AM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


Just remembered this is a show where the hackers watch Hackers... though I'd have liked them to have just a tadge ironic about it. But you can't have everything and overall I love this show.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:53 AM on August 13, 2015


any actual attacks would be launched from a VPS in eastern europe or whereverthefuck

Stick-pcs with linux in ceiling tiles stealing power and a hardwired or wifi connection randomly, from dozens of hospitals, universities, grocery store bathrooms, wherever: the resource is less fungible than a bot, but more fungible than actually having a paid VPS. If skillfull enough, some could be attached via usb 3G modems that cycle through IMEI/MEIDs gleaned through a usb SDR that pops up as a fake cell tower from time to time.

As for the actual machine for access - stock standard TAILS in a coffeeshop/public library/wardriving. Preferably wardriving, in a nondescript Econoline van with removable solar panels on top.

Obviously this takes some prep.
posted by eclectist at 9:18 AM on August 13, 2015 [3 favorites]


Just remembered this is a show where the hackers watch Hackers

Yeah, but most of these hackers were toddlers when Hackers came out. Their attachment is sentimental and tween-cool-aspirational and makes total sense.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


Just remembered this is a show where the hackers watch Hackers... though I'd have liked them to have just a tadge ironic about it. But you can't have everything and overall I love this show.

[as Elliot rides through withdrawl, Romero and Mobley watch the movie Hackers on an analog TV]

Romero: Hollywood hacker bullshit. I been in this game 27 years. Not once have I ever come across an animated singing virus.
Mobley: [passing a lit joint to Romero] I have yet to fly through a Tron City directory structure.
Romero: I bet you right now some writer's working hard on a TV show that'll mess up this generation's idea of hacker culture.
posted by cnelson at 10:25 AM on August 13, 2015 [23 favorites]


I would say more than half of the guys I know that could actually pull of some cinematic style hacking are quite fond of drugs.

especially weird PiHKaL/TiHKaL B-sides
posted by en forme de poire at 11:04 AM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


The depiction of drugs hits more wrong notes than the depiction of computers in this show. It's trying, though.
posted by atoxyl at 11:08 AM on August 13, 2015


What happened to the expectation that we suspend our disbelief when we engage with fiction?

I'm not sure why it matters whether or not it's authentic for a hacker to use GNOME. My mom used to make the same kind of fuss during medical shows when the procedures weren't performed correctly. Those details aren't really the point...
posted by DrLickies at 11:19 AM on August 13, 2015 [5 favorites]


I just thought the scene was particularly funny. Like how when the kid exclaims "It's a Unix system, I know this!" after she sees the gimmicky Solaris 3D file browser in Jurassic Park it didn't make the t-rex eating the lawyer on the toilet any less awesome.
posted by Poldo at 1:48 PM on August 13, 2015


The depiction of drugs hits more wrong notes than the depiction of computers in this show.

The show has to convey things visually when that doesn't really work for almost any kind of drug legal, or no. There's also wanting to stay away too much from glorifying things (see also: Breaking Bad and just about everything about meth on that show in terms of making or taking it).
posted by sparkletone at 2:09 PM on August 13, 2015


Yeah, but most of these hackers were toddlers when Hackers came out. Their attachment is sentimental and tween-cool-aspirational and makes total sense.

As cnelson already pointed out by quoting the scene, the two people watching it in the show are both older than Elliot, Romero in particular who they specifically set a date on (assuming the show is set now, 27 years would have him starting in 1988).

No one in the show (or making the show for that matter) holds that movie in high regard except maybe as an object of kitsch so I don't know where you're getting this from.
posted by sparkletone at 2:13 PM on August 13, 2015


Any movie or tv show that uses anything you know something about as a plot point will seem off: architecture, law, medicine, computers, typography, cooking, engineering, police work, prostitution, modelling, accounting, whatever. This is not news to anybody. Get over it, that's how moving pictures work.
posted by signal at 2:24 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]


I do know all the phone hacking is spot on (if maybe a little faster than real life), as are the physical/desktop hacks (USB drive/DVD entry vectors, the two factor code to the phone to enter the support ticket). So that's cool.

What I find interesting is that they have finally made those hacks interesting on film. I've always found this stuff interesting when reading about it, but they've finally shown the tension whilst not resorting to magically inaccurate bollocks.

As to the main character ... he strikes me as a very true to life hacker; I've known a few and in some ways I am one too, and that overthinking, only analysing social interactions, pull away mind is a quite characteristic stereotype. And the voice-over worked well as a plotpoint and expositionary method, too, and is resolved nicely to boot.

As for this thread's main point ... well, uh, yeah, come to think of it, there is womenly agency there, and it even passes the Bechdel test. That's laudable, I guess, even if I hadn't picked up on it until now. Maybe because it didn't strike me as immensely anti-woman, or woman-as-dumb-sluts, or women-as-single-dimensional-love-interests, so it didn't offend in an in-my-face-to-the-point-of-being-noted manner, so I could just go on and watch the show.

But, oh, it was about "what it means to be a man in modern America."?

WTF? OK, I don't live in the US, but it's about a male hacker with slighlty antisocial, strongly introverted tendencies. And a psychopathic corporate powermonger who pushes her agressive, repressed sociopathic husband to climb the corporate ladder. That's a mighty tiny section of 'men in the US'; a vanishingly small slice, really, to the point that I think not even many people really know the type directly, as in: have them in their circle of friends (although, I do kinda have both, so maybe it is broader than I'd think).

In the end, I find the show a good watch, accurate enough that I'm never jolted out of my suspension-of-disbelief, with good acting and decent writing (which sometimes lets down, but then makes up for it within the same episode). 7.5-8/10, for me.

Oh, and as for True Detective, I am convinced that season two is a good show. IF we had only seen this season, it would have been, maybe not lauded, but definitely praised for good cinematography, good acting (Vince Vaugh?!?!!! Wow! I had no idea ...) and an interesting story and plot, even if sometimes it has much too much 'hear what we're saying here, these are IDEAS and they're thoughtprovoking!' dialogue.
But we've been spoiled by a STELLAR season one of TD, so S2 comes of as crass, in comparison, which is a shame. We've been spoilt :-)
posted by MacD at 2:55 PM on August 13, 2015 [4 favorites]


I actually liked True Detective S2 and am digging this show. (other recentish things I wholeheartedly endorse if you like things I do - Bojack Horseman, Fargo, Person of Interest, Hannibal, Better Call Saul, Review with Forrest McNeill, Peaky Blinders, The Fall, Orphan Black, The Americans, Another Period. Well and a bunch of other popular stuff too but that should give you a range.)

But I don't really want to talk about it because the modern style of TV fandom really takes me out of the show, it's kind of like hearing about other people's dreams, but more annoying.

Anyways, datapoint, FWIW.
posted by hap_hazard at 3:19 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


it even passes the Bechdel test.

It passes the racial Bechdel test, too. Possibly not before this week's episode, but this week, with BELLS.
posted by joyceanmachine at 4:39 PM on August 13, 2015


I tried this show based on this FPP, and after three episodes I couldn't keep with it. First of all, it should not be compared to True Detective S2. The two don't have anything meaningful in common other than occasional bursts of badly written dialogue (although those bursts are a lot more frequent on Mr. Robot). Secondly, holy shit the voiceover writing is bad. It should be used in screenwriting courses as an example of the things that can go wrong when you allow your main character voiceover narration. During the scene toward the end of the first episode Elliott, when he hesitates to delete the thing, actually says to us "Why can't I delete it? I don't want to delete it. I want it to stay." His physical hesitation makes all that perfectly clear, but they just couldn't resist having him shout his thoughts and motivations out loud anyway for us. And then of course there's the terribly weak and simplistic characterization of basically everyone on the show. The bad guy executive habitually goes out to go beat up bums! The therapist's cheating boyfriend is so evil that he intentionally chokes his dog with the leash! The main character must be a good guy because he has a soft spot for animals!

This show is nowhere near as good as True Detective S2, and even that was only a couple ticks above fine.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Secondly, holy shit the voiceover writing is bad.

Your're wrong and should feel bad for being wrong.
posted by Pendragon at 7:14 PM on August 13, 2015 [9 favorites]


^Similar to a graphic novel or a video game. Not badly written, differently written. Elements that seem flat flesh out as we go along. I watched the first episode on youtube, waited a month then watched the second. I liked it enough to keep dvring, got busy and did not catch up until binging on ep3-7 Sunday at which point OMG, when is Wednesday?!? After Wednesdsy, I'm like, ok, I need to watch it all over again from ep1. Eeeee
posted by maggieb at 7:19 PM on August 13, 2015


I guess we won't actually know until the end of the season but my current assessment of Mr. Robot is that it appears to be better than it is. Of course it depends on what you want it to aspire to. Ultra-realistic depictions of sub-cultures is nice but not super-high on my list of priorities. I'm not overly fetishistic in that way. I still have my hopes that the show isn't just jerking me off. I'd like to have seen more evidence of that by now, though.
posted by cleroy at 7:58 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is not news to anybody. Get over it, that's how moving pictures work.
Well since you asked so not-very-nicely, I most certainly will not "get over it". Particularly as the framing of the post specifically includes the discussion of how accurately technology is depicted in the show. A scene where it is depicted so accurately it becomes amusing is certainly relevant. So enough of this derail, please.

I also thought Tyrell's android hack in the second episode was funny in a good way. Aside from the speed at which he did it and the fact that he was able to secure the necessary rooting tools so quickly for a phone he only just found... actually pretty neat. That level of attention to detail certainly puts True Detective 2 to shame.
posted by Poldo at 8:08 PM on August 13, 2015


I dunno what you guys are going on about the mis-casting, but the more I watch the show the more I'm convinced everyone was cast perfectly. If you question Slater's bonafides, you should check out My Own Worst Enemy from 2008, which was cancelled due to ratings after only 4 episodes have aired, but it ran up to 9, and they were very good.
posted by numaner at 6:31 AM on August 14, 2015


I love Mr and Mrs Wellick's marriage completely subverting the "of course a sociopath is male, and women are natural climbers/seductresses to get ahead in the workplace" tropes that dominated in the 80s and 90s. Clearly Joanna has been grooming Tyrell for years, maybe decades, into the monster we see beneath his Brooks Brothers exterior.

They are my current murder OTP.

Anyone who says the casting is off needs to take a closer look at two characters' chins while they are sitting side by side before watching episode 8, though I will avoid outright spoiling for folks who aren't caught up yet.

There are many good female characters in this show, and for a show not led by a woman or explicitly about women, it's rare to see. Not to mention an apparent trans character in ep 8 who was simply there, unremarked on or used as a plot device. BRAVO.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 6:55 AM on August 14, 2015 [3 favorites]


After watching the most recent episode, my tradition of quitting this show and then loving it the most at least once per episode has held, plus a new experience of "I totally saw the second half of that Twist coming episodes ago, but the first half certainly blindsided me except it's been right there all along."
posted by Lyn Never at 8:14 AM on August 14, 2015 [1 favorite]


> as for True Detective, I am convinced that season two is a good show

The finale cemented it for me: service to noir-isms, even at the expense of making normal-world sense, can work if they get the mood right. I'd always loved Chinatown, but didn't know original (American) noir until asavage recommended Chandler & I read a few novels. Saw some of the old & newer adaptations, read a history of Santa Monica (Bay City) then read & saw Inherent Vice and I'm hooked.

> I'm guessing the group of people who have seen both is relatively small.

Why? I do. It's summer & there aren't a lot of non-rerun scripted shows of quality on. I still have HBO thanks to the Sopranos, The Wire and Deadwood (and John from Cincinnati) and still have cable because until recently it was the only way to get HBO, so I have USA. Don't watch that many movies because an hour a few times a week is all I have time for.
posted by morganw at 3:54 PM on August 14, 2015


Stick-pcs with linux in ceiling tiles stealing power and a hardwired or wifi connection randomly, from dozens of hospitals, universities, grocery store bathrooms, wherever: the resource is less fungible than a bot, but more fungible than actually having a paid VPS. If skillfull enough, some could be attached via usb 3G modems that cycle through IMEI/MEIDs gleaned through a usb SDR that pops up as a fake cell tower from time to time.

As for the actual machine for access - stock standard TAILS in a coffeeshop/public library/wardriving. Preferably wardriving, in a nondescript Econoline van with removable solar panels on top.

Obviously this takes some prep.


Hackers are lazy. rent the vps for 5 bucks a mont in a country with a bad reputation. No need to be fancy.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 8:06 PM on August 14, 2015


The elevator pitch for Mr. Robot.
posted by sparkletone at 2:13 PM on August 15, 2015


Wellick’s first-episode GNOME vs. KDE lines are meant to be hamhanded (meant by the writers, not by the character.) That is exactly how execs who have maybe read a few issues of Wired or something sound when they lamely try to forge “hey I’m cool too, I’m one of you guys!” connections with techs.
posted by El Mariachi at 10:26 PM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


Mr. Robot’s Lies and Liars - "As the season finale reminded, USA’s acclaimed new series is many things, but it’s mostly an exploration of manipulation."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:54 AM on September 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


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