“Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what's for lunch.”
September 8, 2015 7:26 AM Subscribe
Why the healthy school lunch program is in trouble. [The Washington Post]
From the Washington Post article:
- How School Lunch Became the Latest Political Battleground [New York Times] [Previously]
Student E114 is a case in point. E114 -- the identification code she was assigned by researchers studying eating habits at her public elementary school somewhere in the Northeast -- left the lunch line one day carrying a tray full of what looked like a balanced meal: chicken nuggets, some sort of mushy starch, green beans and milk. Exactly 13 minutes later she was done. The chicken nuggets and the starch were gone. But the green beans? Still there in a neat pile and headed straight for the trash. Before/after photos of what students ate.
From the Washington Post article:
In a study published Tuesday in Public Health Reports, researcher Sarah Amin reports that such waste has become heartbreakingly common since the Agriculture Department rolled out new requirements in the 2012 school year that mandated that children who were taking part in the federal lunch program choose either a fruit or vegetable with their meals.Related:
- How School Lunch Became the Latest Political Battleground [New York Times] [Previously]
“That year, the Obama administration got behind the Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act, an ambitious bill that would impose strict new nutrition standards on all food sold in public schools. A generation raised on Lunchables and Pizza Hut, the bill’s authors believed, could learn to love whole-wheat pasta and roasted cauliflower. Kids would be more energetic, better able to focus in class and above all less likely to be obese. But to pass the bill, the White House needed to enlist not only Democrats and Republicans in Congress but also a host of overlapping and competing interest groups: the manufacturers who supplied food to schools, the nutrition experts who wanted it to be more healthful and the lunch ladies who would have to get children to eat it.”- 5 tips for a healthy school lunch your kid will actually eat. [CBC]
1. Shop smart.- Why Does It Seem That Everyone Gets A Free Lunch In School Except Your Kid? [Forbes]
2. Involve your kids.
3. Smaller can be better
4. Make changes slowly
5. Rethink treats
In a typical day last year, more than 30 million children got federally approved lunches in 100,000 public and private schools. To be eligible for a free meal, families must say they have income at or below 130% of the poverty level ($31,525 for a family of four this school year). Those with incomes up to 185% of the poverty level ($44,863 for a family of four) are eligible for reduced‐price meals that can’t be priced higher than 40 cents.- In Support of School Lunch. [Huffington Post]
"As American children head back to school, their senators and representatives return to Congress with just a few weeks left to renew the school lunch reforms that Michelle Obama championed five years ago. School lunch programs will keep serving meals even if the law expires, but Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack is determined to see new legislation passed before the September 31st expiration of the current Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act of 2010".- Photos Of School Lunches From Around The World Will Make American Kids Want To Study Abroad [Huffington Post]
• United States- Back to School: We ask five Toronto parents what they’re packing in their kids’ lunches this year. [Toronto Star]
• Brazil
• Italy
• Finland
• South Korea
• France
• Greece
• Ukraine
• Spain
• Brad Long, chef at Cafe Belong, packs lunches for his children: Hannah, 17, Grace, 14, Stella, 12 and Daniel, 7. [Image]Previously.
• Lydia Knorr, registered dietitian, packs lunches for Erika, 16, and Eva, 14. [Image]
• Hayley Wickenheiser, Olympic hockey player, packs lunches for Noah, 15. [Image]
• Yashy Murphy, lifestyle blogger at babyandlife.com, packs lunches for Akira, 3. [Image]
• Racheal McCaig, photographer, packs lunches for Molly, 12. [Image]
I paid full price for school lunch (which I believe was 50 cents in elementary school and $1.25 in jr and sr high school). My other option was always to make my own lunch, which I sometimes did, but I ate school lunch a lot. In elementary, we were required to take a protein and two vegetables or a fruit and a vegetable. I don't remember eating fruits and vegetables being a big deal. In the upper grades, we could go a la carte and just buy what we wanted, but it cost more, and I think most folks bought the whole thing (or went to the stand that sold Pizza Hut). Now, I eat in a college dining hall a few times a month, and these recent attendees of public school seem to eat fruits and vegetables and especially salads all the time.
I wonder if these preferences are variable by region. Southern kids in the ruralish area where I grew up were used to fruits and vegetables because most folks were growing some in their yard and ate them all summer. I remember every kid in my elementary school (except me!) being so excited when they served collards or turnip greens. There was always a bottle of vinegar out to dump on them. I sadly still don't like greens. But I remember eating green beans, fried okra, sweet potatoes, corn, peas and carrots, lima beans, apples, oranges, pineapple, peaches, iceberg lettuce with a twirl of carrot and a dab of thousand island, and of course "congealed salad".
posted by hydropsyche at 7:42 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I wonder if these preferences are variable by region. Southern kids in the ruralish area where I grew up were used to fruits and vegetables because most folks were growing some in their yard and ate them all summer. I remember every kid in my elementary school (except me!) being so excited when they served collards or turnip greens. There was always a bottle of vinegar out to dump on them. I sadly still don't like greens. But I remember eating green beans, fried okra, sweet potatoes, corn, peas and carrots, lima beans, apples, oranges, pineapple, peaches, iceberg lettuce with a twirl of carrot and a dab of thousand island, and of course "congealed salad".
posted by hydropsyche at 7:42 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm 20 years out of high school, but the pictures of those lunches look disgusting. I don't know what the solution is, but I don't blame kids for not wanting to eat mass produced rubbery vegetables.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:43 AM on September 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:43 AM on September 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
We had a discussion about this in a food studies group I'm in. It's a big issue, but one thing is that the food preparation is just so meh. Boiled green beans....ugh.
As an educator, I've worked in a number of settings with food service - summer camps, residential programs, schools with an indepedent in-house lunch program - and have found that when there is care and audience consultation in presenting the food, kids will mostly eat just about anything. The nutritionism style of calculating the contents of a school lunch based on macronutrients and commodity subsidies references no cultural or aesthetic standard and doesn't seem to be built on an understanding of contemporary cuisine or on what kids respond to in food (Freshness, color, variety, mix of sweet and sour, attractiveness, avoiding mushy textures).
I find it interesting, too, that kids ate more fruits and veg when they could choose it. Making it mandatory is like, well, saying 'eat your vegetables.' It instantly creates a hierarchy of foods in which some foods are elevated and some dismissed, and kids then observe and listen to this hierarchy, responding to vegetables as symbols of authority instead of their own bodies and tastes.
posted by Miko at 7:43 AM on September 8, 2015 [48 favorites]
As an educator, I've worked in a number of settings with food service - summer camps, residential programs, schools with an indepedent in-house lunch program - and have found that when there is care and audience consultation in presenting the food, kids will mostly eat just about anything. The nutritionism style of calculating the contents of a school lunch based on macronutrients and commodity subsidies references no cultural or aesthetic standard and doesn't seem to be built on an understanding of contemporary cuisine or on what kids respond to in food (Freshness, color, variety, mix of sweet and sour, attractiveness, avoiding mushy textures).
I find it interesting, too, that kids ate more fruits and veg when they could choose it. Making it mandatory is like, well, saying 'eat your vegetables.' It instantly creates a hierarchy of foods in which some foods are elevated and some dismissed, and kids then observe and listen to this hierarchy, responding to vegetables as symbols of authority instead of their own bodies and tastes.
posted by Miko at 7:43 AM on September 8, 2015 [48 favorites]
I pack our leftovers as my kid's lunch. He's only 2, though. The other kids at daycare get federal-food-program meals which are fine. But there is a big difference between industrial canned green beans and the much brighter green of our home-cooked-from-frozen green beans, just as a start.
posted by jillithd at 7:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by jillithd at 7:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
The county my daughter teaches in has free breakfast and lunch for everyone, no income qualifying-just show up and eat. I think its great since so many of her students are food insecure and school is often the only reliable meal that they get. Even unhealthy food is better than no food.
My son (7th grade) is required to have a fruit OR vegetable before he's allowed to check out of the cafeteria line. We pay $2.85 a day for his lunch plus a service fee every time we put money in his account. I can look online and see what he's gotten every day, and every day he gets an apple that he throws in the trash.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
My son (7th grade) is required to have a fruit OR vegetable before he's allowed to check out of the cafeteria line. We pay $2.85 a day for his lunch plus a service fee every time we put money in his account. I can look online and see what he's gotten every day, and every day he gets an apple that he throws in the trash.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Couple of comments deleted; let's not start this off with sarcastic fightstarters about how poor people are bad parents.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:46 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:46 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I should note that my schools all had cafeterias with kitchens and cooking staff. Plenty of our food came out of cans and the freezer, but it was prepared fresh and served on dishes with silverware. Even in the '80s and '90s, I know lots of schools had transitioned to prepackaged meals that were just heated in styrofoam and plopped in front of the kids.
Also, southerners boil green beans.
posted by hydropsyche at 7:48 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, southerners boil green beans.
posted by hydropsyche at 7:48 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
i was well into adulthood before i learned that people ate green beans any other way than soggy (whether by boiling or baking into a casserole).
posted by nadawi at 7:51 AM on September 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:51 AM on September 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
plus a service fee every time we put money in his account
Is there an option to pay with cash?
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:51 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is there an option to pay with cash?
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:51 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
That Greece lunch picture looks like they just plucked those pieces of fruit (oranges?) right from the tree mere seconds before they put it on the plate.
posted by jillithd at 7:51 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jillithd at 7:51 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Many of the children I know are quite fussy with eating fruits and vegetables at home. Not surprising that it continues in the school cafeteria.
My oldest son loves vegetables and often eats his friends discarded veggies at school. That's a few missing the dumpster at least.
posted by dweingart at 7:53 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
My oldest son loves vegetables and often eats his friends discarded veggies at school. That's a few missing the dumpster at least.
posted by dweingart at 7:53 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Cooking things the "right" way involves a lot of time and money and people who can spend time doing things that way. Boiling a huge pot of green beans takes less time than, say, sauteeing or steaming them properly, and the folks who are charged with making school lunches are chronically underpaid and don't really get that many hours.
You can't demand well-made, healthy, appetizing meals made by people who are just barely scraping by and don't have a lot of time to 1. make the meals, and/or 2. learn how to cook really well.
posted by xingcat at 7:54 AM on September 8, 2015 [38 favorites]
You can't demand well-made, healthy, appetizing meals made by people who are just barely scraping by and don't have a lot of time to 1. make the meals, and/or 2. learn how to cook really well.
posted by xingcat at 7:54 AM on September 8, 2015 [38 favorites]
southerners boil green beans.
This is true, but usually they also add flavor (pork fat, vinegar, etc.)
posted by Miko at 7:56 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is true, but usually they also add flavor (pork fat, vinegar, etc.)
posted by Miko at 7:56 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
some southerners add that flavor, but it's not universal. boiled green beans out of a can is how i ate them at home, at the babysitter's, at church, at school...
posted by nadawi at 7:58 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:58 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Even in the '80s and '90s, I know lots of schools had transitioned to prepackaged meals that were just heated in styrofoam and plopped in front of the kids.
I'm reminded of a tut-tutting article in the Economist from a few years about about how Japan's economy was efficient in so many ways except food preparation, and how much more productive it could become if they approached food preparation more like America.
The author probably hadn't eaten at the average American school cafeteria. (Or he had, and was wishing bad things on the Japanese.)
posted by clawsoon at 7:59 AM on September 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
I'm reminded of a tut-tutting article in the Economist from a few years about about how Japan's economy was efficient in so many ways except food preparation, and how much more productive it could become if they approached food preparation more like America.
The author probably hadn't eaten at the average American school cafeteria. (Or he had, and was wishing bad things on the Japanese.)
posted by clawsoon at 7:59 AM on September 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
When I boil green beans, though, it's for 2 minutes, and then I mix them with garlic and oil. Delicious and crispy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:59 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:59 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Is there an option to pay with cash?
Not really, at least at my daughter's school. They don't really want kids bringing cash into school everyday, due to the potential for them to lose it or for it to get stolen.
I'm not sure what to make of the Forbes article claiming rampant fraud in the free and reduced price lunch system. I had free lunch through high school, but we were legit poor. I'm definitely not poor as an adult, and it never occurred to me to even complete the free lunch form for my daughter.
Also, there's nothing wrong with boiling green beans, you just add some smashed garlic and salt pork or bacon to the water and cook them until they are kind of mushy. It's good!
posted by jeoc at 8:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Not really, at least at my daughter's school. They don't really want kids bringing cash into school everyday, due to the potential for them to lose it or for it to get stolen.
I'm not sure what to make of the Forbes article claiming rampant fraud in the free and reduced price lunch system. I had free lunch through high school, but we were legit poor. I'm definitely not poor as an adult, and it never occurred to me to even complete the free lunch form for my daughter.
Also, there's nothing wrong with boiling green beans, you just add some smashed garlic and salt pork or bacon to the water and cook them until they are kind of mushy. It's good!
posted by jeoc at 8:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
That is how I ate green beans when I was a child as well. Actually, it was the even grosser "French cut" version that was long and stringy in addition to being mushy and nasty tasting.
I don't eat them like that now, because I'm an adult and no one can make me.
posted by JDHarper at 8:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't eat them like that now, because I'm an adult and no one can make me.
posted by JDHarper at 8:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
My kids probably throw away 50% of the vegetables we put on their plates at home. But what's encouraging is that, as they get older, they seem to be eating more of them.
Unless children are given fruit and vegetables at home, how can we really expect them to want to eat them at school? Still, at least they don't have to eat the 'mutton cobbler' we had to endure at my primary school in the 70s. Or the pilchards.
posted by pipeski at 8:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Unless children are given fruit and vegetables at home, how can we really expect them to want to eat them at school? Still, at least they don't have to eat the 'mutton cobbler' we had to endure at my primary school in the 70s. Or the pilchards.
posted by pipeski at 8:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Photos Of School Lunches From Around The World Will Make American Kids Want To Study Abroad
After Sanders is elected President, I hope he addresses the nation and simply shows comparison photographs of these school lunches to the American people.
posted by Beholder at 8:12 AM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
After Sanders is elected President, I hope he addresses the nation and simply shows comparison photographs of these school lunches to the American people.
posted by Beholder at 8:12 AM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure what to make of the Forbes article claiming rampant fraud in the free and reduced price lunch system.
The basic unspoken tenet of American conservatism is that it's better that nine people who need something don't get it than one person gets away with it undeservingly.
Does not apply to corporations, because they're actively trying to get over on society, and that's just smart exploitation of loopholes.
posted by Etrigan at 8:14 AM on September 8, 2015 [76 favorites]
The basic unspoken tenet of American conservatism is that it's better that nine people who need something don't get it than one person gets away with it undeservingly.
Does not apply to corporations, because they're actively trying to get over on society, and that's just smart exploitation of loopholes.
posted by Etrigan at 8:14 AM on September 8, 2015 [76 favorites]
I haven't eaten a school lunch in over two decades, and I understand that things vary widely from district to district, but...
It's the quality, stupid. Gross vegetables are gross. When your choice is between a hit of processed salt/fat/starch, and a processed, underseasoned vegetable that's been boiled into a sulfurous-smelling mush, of course you're going to choose the former. Even as a kid, I liked vegetables—but the vegetables that I was served in school cafeterias were barely edible. Broccoli that was more liquid than solid; flavorless kernel corn...and, well, that was about it.
Is this just a cost-saving measure? Is it truly not possible for a cafeteria to serve fresh veggies without breaking the bank? Fresh green beans aren't expensive, and blanching them (not boiling them within an inch of their life) doesn't require any special equipment or skill.
Maybe it really isn't possible within the economic constraints that cafeterias have to operate under, but I would be interested to see the math for myself.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:14 AM on September 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
It's the quality, stupid. Gross vegetables are gross. When your choice is between a hit of processed salt/fat/starch, and a processed, underseasoned vegetable that's been boiled into a sulfurous-smelling mush, of course you're going to choose the former. Even as a kid, I liked vegetables—but the vegetables that I was served in school cafeterias were barely edible. Broccoli that was more liquid than solid; flavorless kernel corn...and, well, that was about it.
Is this just a cost-saving measure? Is it truly not possible for a cafeteria to serve fresh veggies without breaking the bank? Fresh green beans aren't expensive, and blanching them (not boiling them within an inch of their life) doesn't require any special equipment or skill.
Maybe it really isn't possible within the economic constraints that cafeterias have to operate under, but I would be interested to see the math for myself.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:14 AM on September 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
I don't really remember much about my school lunches, except that in high school, most everyone lived for pizza day with a side of fries. I always ate at the cafeteria and never brought my lunch--two working parents, my mom opted to make dinner every night instead of putting together lunches for us--that I can remember.
posted by Kitteh at 8:15 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:15 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
That is how I ate green beans when I was a child as well. Actually, it was the even grosser "French cut" version that was long and stringy in addition to being mushy and nasty tasting.
Green beans were a staple of my upper midwest school lunch program. I. Loved. them. A little salt, a little butter and NOM NOM NOM.
I used to love me some school lunches. I was poor, so I got free lunch. I'd use my allowance money (when I got it) to buy lunch tokens from my friends so they buy cigs. Then I ate 2-3 lunches.
I was a skinny kid (6'3" and 135lbs when I graduated) and ate like a horse. I probably would have starved to death if it wasn't for free lunch.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:17 AM on September 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Green beans were a staple of my upper midwest school lunch program. I. Loved. them. A little salt, a little butter and NOM NOM NOM.
I used to love me some school lunches. I was poor, so I got free lunch. I'd use my allowance money (when I got it) to buy lunch tokens from my friends so they buy cigs. Then I ate 2-3 lunches.
I was a skinny kid (6'3" and 135lbs when I graduated) and ate like a horse. I probably would have starved to death if it wasn't for free lunch.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:17 AM on September 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
I want this to work, because it's a great way to model better eating habits. But it's still kind of shocking to me that my kids hate Pizza day now. The whole wheat crust is cardboard.
We have a great Food Service director who had pushed for healthy options and a school garden before these standards were rolled out. He made excellent soups that my kids loved, and he's had to cut some of those because he can't exactly measure how much protein and veg would be in each serving.
posted by saffry at 8:18 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
We have a great Food Service director who had pushed for healthy options and a school garden before these standards were rolled out. He made excellent soups that my kids loved, and he's had to cut some of those because he can't exactly measure how much protein and veg would be in each serving.
posted by saffry at 8:18 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fuck your kids
Fuck your poor
Fuck your schools
Fuck your olds
Fuck your blacks
Fuck your women
Fuck your prisoned
Fuck your sick
Fuck your humans
Fuck your ideals
Fuck your revolution
Fuck you all
Long live money
posted by growabrain at 8:19 AM on September 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
Fuck your poor
Fuck your schools
Fuck your olds
Fuck your blacks
Fuck your women
Fuck your prisoned
Fuck your sick
Fuck your humans
Fuck your ideals
Fuck your revolution
Fuck you all
Long live money
posted by growabrain at 8:19 AM on September 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
There are 1.1 million children in 1700 schools in the NYC system. 860,000 eat food prepared by the NYC School Food program. 700,000 eat at a reduced price or for free. (Online application here.) NYC schools do not have soda machines and there is a salad bar in every school. (Those were mandated when Bloomberg was in office.) Menus here.
Rote Cuisine: "Since the 1980s, school food has been about nutrition. And even today, school food reform is born more from ideology than it is from an epicurean love of pleasure."
We make our kids' lunches and snacks at home, but can send them with money to pick up milk. If they don't have money, the school gives it to them if they ask. Parents are supposed to be billed for that each month, but apparently my kids ask for milk all the time and we've never been billed. Also, there are lunch monitors that wander around the cafeteria with baskets of fruit each day, providing an apple, pear, orange or other fruit to any child who says they want one.
posted by zarq at 8:19 AM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Rote Cuisine: "Since the 1980s, school food has been about nutrition. And even today, school food reform is born more from ideology than it is from an epicurean love of pleasure."
We make our kids' lunches and snacks at home, but can send them with money to pick up milk. If they don't have money, the school gives it to them if they ask. Parents are supposed to be billed for that each month, but apparently my kids ask for milk all the time and we've never been billed. Also, there are lunch monitors that wander around the cafeteria with baskets of fruit each day, providing an apple, pear, orange or other fruit to any child who says they want one.
posted by zarq at 8:19 AM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
That Forbes article has kinda fuzzy math but I think that a rigorous look would probably show that rather than massive fraud there's just massive poverty.
posted by ghharr at 8:20 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by ghharr at 8:20 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
Peer pressure. If the cool kids are throwing away their apples, you might too, even if you would like to eat it.
Everything is fortified, so whatever. Let them eat french fries and chocolate milk. Of course then the cool kids will start throwing away their milk.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:22 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Everything is fortified, so whatever. Let them eat french fries and chocolate milk. Of course then the cool kids will start throwing away their milk.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:22 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Honestly, if you're expecting kids to eat a stack of unseasoned cucumber slices (like in one of the pictured lunches) - well, first off, cucumber isn't exactly a nutritious vegetable. Second, I wouldn't eat a stack of unseasoned cucumber slices, except maybe in the middle of the summer with a little salt after I'd cut them myself. What a blah and pointless choice - might as well supply a little pile of iceberg lettuce.
Assuming that one could have the funding to make lunches with fresh vegetables or properly cooked ones, I wonder if a quarterly tasting fair might be helpful for kids. It would help the school get a fix on what kids actually liked, and help kids get used to some of the vegetable dishes. You could probably get kids to enjoy something like a grated carrot/grated red cabbage/cumin ginger dressing salad if you made it right, or broccoli with peanut sauce, etc, and a tasting fair would help kids get over the unfamiliarity.
posted by Frowner at 8:25 AM on September 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Assuming that one could have the funding to make lunches with fresh vegetables or properly cooked ones, I wonder if a quarterly tasting fair might be helpful for kids. It would help the school get a fix on what kids actually liked, and help kids get used to some of the vegetable dishes. You could probably get kids to enjoy something like a grated carrot/grated red cabbage/cumin ginger dressing salad if you made it right, or broccoli with peanut sauce, etc, and a tasting fair would help kids get over the unfamiliarity.
posted by Frowner at 8:25 AM on September 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
That Forbes article has kinda fuzzy math but I think that a rigorous look would probably show that rather than massive fraud there's just massive poverty.
I was thinking the same thing. Yes, Forbes, there are a higher proportion of kids in public schools getting free and reduced price lunch than in the population as a whole, but that's because magazine like yours have convinced people that public schools are terrible and so all of your readers have yanked their kids out of public schools, leaving behind the kids who get free and reduced price lunch.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:25 AM on September 8, 2015 [25 favorites]
I was thinking the same thing. Yes, Forbes, there are a higher proportion of kids in public schools getting free and reduced price lunch than in the population as a whole, but that's because magazine like yours have convinced people that public schools are terrible and so all of your readers have yanked their kids out of public schools, leaving behind the kids who get free and reduced price lunch.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:25 AM on September 8, 2015 [25 favorites]
that forbes article is really quite awful - filled with judge-y conclusions, bad math, and a pinch of weird islamophobia.
posted by nadawi at 8:27 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 8:27 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
/outrage about everything/
posted by growabrain at 8:32 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 8:32 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly, if you're expecting kids to eat a stack of unseasoned cucumber slices (like in one of the pictured lunches) - well, first off, cucumber isn't exactly a nutritious vegetable. Second, I wouldn't eat a stack of unseasoned cucumber slices, except maybe in the middle of the summer with a little salt after I'd cut them myself. What a blah and pointless choice - might as well supply a little pile of iceberg lettuce.
I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:34 AM on September 8, 2015
I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:34 AM on September 8, 2015
The basic unspoken tenet of American conservatism is that it's better that nine people who need something don't get it than one person gets away with it undeservingly.
Heh, yeah. That's kind of what it seemed like to me. It seemed like it was working out to be a small subsidy for a lot of families, many of whom may fall out of the super-strict guidelines.
I was sort of confused by the lunches from around the world until I rtfa. I guess they're idealized versions of potential meals from those parts of the world? Any of those items could be either great or mediocre or gross and industrialized.
posted by jeoc at 8:35 AM on September 8, 2015
Heh, yeah. That's kind of what it seemed like to me. It seemed like it was working out to be a small subsidy for a lot of families, many of whom may fall out of the super-strict guidelines.
I was sort of confused by the lunches from around the world until I rtfa. I guess they're idealized versions of potential meals from those parts of the world? Any of those items could be either great or mediocre or gross and industrialized.
posted by jeoc at 8:35 AM on September 8, 2015
They don't really want kids bringing cash into school everyday, due to the potential for them to lose it or for it to get stolen.
You know you're living in the 21st century when the schoolyard bully is toting around a swipe card reader to collect their milk money tributes.
posted by dr_dank at 8:37 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
You know you're living in the 21st century when the schoolyard bully is toting around a swipe card reader to collect their milk money tributes.
posted by dr_dank at 8:37 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
, there are lunch monitors that wander around the cafeteria with baskets of fruit each day, providing an apple, pear, orange or other fruit to any child who says they want one.
See, that strikes me as a smart, humane strategy that makes better use of psychology. Don't force fruit on a kid so that they just throw it away. Instead, make it an attractive thing you can request from someone, a free perk, and a nice human interaction: hey, would you like a piece of fresh fruit? Enticing.
posted by Miko at 8:39 AM on September 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
See, that strikes me as a smart, humane strategy that makes better use of psychology. Don't force fruit on a kid so that they just throw it away. Instead, make it an attractive thing you can request from someone, a free perk, and a nice human interaction: hey, would you like a piece of fresh fruit? Enticing.
posted by Miko at 8:39 AM on September 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
red undelicious apples previously, aka one of my favourite posts of all time
posted by poffin boffin at 8:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
My school had a candy store and a pile of heavily bruised fruit.
posted by smidgen at 8:49 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by smidgen at 8:49 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
A slice of suspiciously iridescent canned roast beef in gravy, a perfect hemisphere of reconstituted potato, and a square of gingerbread in pink custard (aka Eastwood District [Scotland] school lunch c.1976) never did me any harm …
posted by scruss at 8:49 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by scruss at 8:49 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Honestly, if you're expecting kids to eat a stack of unseasoned cucumber slices (like in one of the pictured lunches) - well, first off, cucumber isn't exactly a nutritious vegetable. Second, I wouldn't eat a stack of unseasoned cucumber slices, except maybe in the middle of the summer with a little salt after I'd cut them myself. What a blah and pointless choice - might as well supply a little pile of iceberg lettuce.
My son is 7 and frickin' loves unseasoned cucumber slices. And lots of other raw vegetables. Not every kid hates veggies or requires them to be enhanced with dressing or seasoning.
posted by zarq at 8:49 AM on September 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
My son is 7 and frickin' loves unseasoned cucumber slices. And lots of other raw vegetables. Not every kid hates veggies or requires them to be enhanced with dressing or seasoning.
posted by zarq at 8:49 AM on September 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child.
When I was a child I would have eaten raw cucumber slices until I made myself ill, except that once I'd done it a couple of times my folks wouldn't leave me unsupervised around vegetables. ;)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:52 AM on September 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
When I was a child I would have eaten raw cucumber slices until I made myself ill, except that once I'd done it a couple of times my folks wouldn't leave me unsupervised around vegetables. ;)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:52 AM on September 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
I don't know if it's everywhere, but in some counties, if your school hits 60% eligibility for free lunch, they stop counting and just give everyone free lunch who asks.
We have a fruit basket for unwanted items in the cafetorium. It's a pretty good solution-- the fruit and side salads don't go in the trash, and any kid that's still hungry has their pick from the basket. (They mostly don't go for it, but a few do, and it doesn't appear to be stigmatized.) A teacher on my hall has had luck with taking the apples and re-offering them as a special classroom treat in a bowl they can help themselves from during breaks. Whatever it takes to get even two bites of apple into a child, seriously, go for it. I believe the rejected apples in good shape are presented at the following lunch after being washed, but I'm not sure.
There's a daily offering of some kind of entree, or choose pizza with whole wheat crust. I like the crust, but I'm weird, since the other 99% of students and teachers hate it. Kids mostly choose the pizza, take their required apple and vegetable side, eat the pizza slice and toss the crust, and put the apple or vegetable in the basket. (Then they pull out their hot chips from the corner market. Damn it.) There's this really excellent cucumber-pepper-onion side salad with a vinaigrette which the kids also hate and which I take after they all leave, and stockpile in my fridge ALL FOR ME. Either the general quality of the lunches has gone up, or my standards have gone down.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:52 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
We have a fruit basket for unwanted items in the cafetorium. It's a pretty good solution-- the fruit and side salads don't go in the trash, and any kid that's still hungry has their pick from the basket. (They mostly don't go for it, but a few do, and it doesn't appear to be stigmatized.) A teacher on my hall has had luck with taking the apples and re-offering them as a special classroom treat in a bowl they can help themselves from during breaks. Whatever it takes to get even two bites of apple into a child, seriously, go for it. I believe the rejected apples in good shape are presented at the following lunch after being washed, but I'm not sure.
There's a daily offering of some kind of entree, or choose pizza with whole wheat crust. I like the crust, but I'm weird, since the other 99% of students and teachers hate it. Kids mostly choose the pizza, take their required apple and vegetable side, eat the pizza slice and toss the crust, and put the apple or vegetable in the basket. (Then they pull out their hot chips from the corner market. Damn it.) There's this really excellent cucumber-pepper-onion side salad with a vinaigrette which the kids also hate and which I take after they all leave, and stockpile in my fridge ALL FOR ME. Either the general quality of the lunches has gone up, or my standards have gone down.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:52 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
I have always been a hot lunch sort of person, all the way back to grade school. I'm just throwing it out into the cosmos that I am thankful that I went to (public) schools with decent kitchens and staff that appeared to care. Thanks, ladies, for helping me get through my afternoon classes.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 8:53 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by LastOfHisKind at 8:53 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child.
Probably the texture and lack of strong taste is especially palatable to children. Pickled cucumbers were really hot among my peers when I was a kid too.
posted by deathmaven at 8:59 AM on September 8, 2015
Probably the texture and lack of strong taste is especially palatable to children. Pickled cucumbers were really hot among my peers when I was a kid too.
posted by deathmaven at 8:59 AM on September 8, 2015
Miko: See, that strikes me as a smart, humane strategy that makes better use of psychology. Don't force fruit on a kid so that they just throw it away. Instead, make it an attractive thing you can request from someone, a free perk, and a nice human interaction: hey, would you like a piece of fresh fruit? Enticing.
Yes! Exactly.
We only found out about the program when our kids started coming home with orange and tangerine peels in their lunch boxes. A fun conversation:
"Where did you get this?"
"The lady gave it to me."
"What lady?"
"I don't know her name. The fruit lady. She's nice."
Which of course led us to believe they were taking and eating fruit from random strangers. :)
posted by zarq at 9:00 AM on September 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
Yes! Exactly.
We only found out about the program when our kids started coming home with orange and tangerine peels in their lunch boxes. A fun conversation:
"Where did you get this?"
"The lady gave it to me."
"What lady?"
"I don't know her name. The fruit lady. She's nice."
Which of course led us to believe they were taking and eating fruit from random strangers. :)
posted by zarq at 9:00 AM on September 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
Tales From a DC School Kitchen (part 2 describes the lengths kids will go to avoid eating veggies)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:00 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:00 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
The world figured out how to make incredibly cheap, reasonably healthy, genuinely tasty meals hundreds of years ago: a big pile of noodles or rice, lots of vegetables, a little meat, and some tasty broth. Add some soy protein if you want to be modern and hip. Add hot sauce if you're not trapped in the horribly bland American midwest.
Building school lunches on the steak-house model with entrées and sides is an idiot's dream. Making cheap food tasty is not hard. Making cheap food tasty and also making it look like a faux-french restaurant interpreted by idiot cowboys is impossible. We really should stop electing Sizzler middle-management to positions of power in our school districts.
posted by eotvos at 9:02 AM on September 8, 2015 [41 favorites]
Building school lunches on the steak-house model with entrées and sides is an idiot's dream. Making cheap food tasty is not hard. Making cheap food tasty and also making it look like a faux-french restaurant interpreted by idiot cowboys is impossible. We really should stop electing Sizzler middle-management to positions of power in our school districts.
posted by eotvos at 9:02 AM on September 8, 2015 [41 favorites]
"Where did you get this?"
"The lady gave it to me."
"What lady?"
"I don't know her name. The fruit lady. She's nice."
You realize you had about a fifty-fifty chance of being in a horror movie at that point, right?
posted by Etrigan at 9:04 AM on September 8, 2015 [33 favorites]
"The lady gave it to me."
"What lady?"
"I don't know her name. The fruit lady. She's nice."
You realize you had about a fifty-fifty chance of being in a horror movie at that point, right?
posted by Etrigan at 9:04 AM on September 8, 2015 [33 favorites]
> Everything is fortified, so whatever. Let them eat french fries and chocolate milk.
That's just wrong - indeed, that idea is downright dangerous. "Fortified" junk food is junk food just the same. You can't "fortify" fries and somehow get the same value as eating fresh fruit or vegetables.
My friend lives by your mantra, eschewing real food for "fortified" junk food. He's around 50 now, hugely fat, and missing most of his teeth.
I'm a little older than he is - and I'm *really* glad I worked in my teens and twenties to get a taste for healthy food because I'm still in reasonable shape.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:06 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's just wrong - indeed, that idea is downright dangerous. "Fortified" junk food is junk food just the same. You can't "fortify" fries and somehow get the same value as eating fresh fruit or vegetables.
My friend lives by your mantra, eschewing real food for "fortified" junk food. He's around 50 now, hugely fat, and missing most of his teeth.
I'm a little older than he is - and I'm *really* glad I worked in my teens and twenties to get a taste for healthy food because I'm still in reasonable shape.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:06 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think my mom would have been slightly alarmed at strangers giving her daughters free food, but parental hysteria over strangers is not new to any generation, I don't think.
posted by Kitteh at 9:07 AM on September 8, 2015
posted by Kitteh at 9:07 AM on September 8, 2015
And I should add that when I grew up, they wouldn't let you out to play unless you made a good try at all portions of your lunch. I hated salads at the time, and thus salad days were very trying for me...
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:07 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:07 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
You realize you had about a fifty-fifty chance of being in a horror movie at that point, right?
Pretty much! Took a couple of extra minutes of questioning to puzzle that one out.
posted by zarq at 9:15 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pretty much! Took a couple of extra minutes of questioning to puzzle that one out.
posted by zarq at 9:15 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
My parents gave us an incentive to eat hot lunch for the entire school year, something like $100 each if we did it the entire time. Seems like a fortune to a young kid, but they came out ahead on the deal since they didn't have to prepare a year's worth of sack lunches. Not that everyone can do that, though.
This whole discussion of school lunch makes me want a bunch of applesauce now. It's a little too early in the morning for applesauce.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:15 AM on September 8, 2015
This whole discussion of school lunch makes me want a bunch of applesauce now. It's a little too early in the morning for applesauce.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:15 AM on September 8, 2015
Tales From a DC School Kitchen (part 2 describes the lengths kids will go to avoid eating veggies)
From the article:
Kitchen manager Tiffany Whittington likes to stir cheddar cheese — pre-shredded by Land O Lakes in five-pound bags — into the scrambled eggs to boost the flavor quotient.
How touching. I was just remembering the Simpsons episode where Lunch Lady Doris sneaked buffalo testicles into the food because "more testicles mean more iron", thinking it was optimistic to think that a person in a (presumably?) low pay and socially maligned position would even care enough to do that. Guess I was wrong.
posted by deathmaven at 9:16 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
From the article:
Kitchen manager Tiffany Whittington likes to stir cheddar cheese — pre-shredded by Land O Lakes in five-pound bags — into the scrambled eggs to boost the flavor quotient.
How touching. I was just remembering the Simpsons episode where Lunch Lady Doris sneaked buffalo testicles into the food because "more testicles mean more iron", thinking it was optimistic to think that a person in a (presumably?) low pay and socially maligned position would even care enough to do that. Guess I was wrong.
posted by deathmaven at 9:16 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
At my high school we had three lines.
Line #1: "Regular" school lunch. This is where students who received a free lunch would eat. The food was generally bland and not very good. Your basic protein, veggies, small dessert, milk/juice.
Line #2: Our school had a relationship established with several local fast food restaurants: Pizza Hut, Subway, Taco Bell.
Line #3: French-fries, nachos, cheese, gravy. Some variation of those ingredients.
I personally did not take a lunch to school because I was always in a rush, too lazy. And my days were set up so that I would be home at 2 or 2:30 p.m. Most days, I'd have a snack at a vending machine. On those days when I absolutely could not wait to eat something home-made, I'd end up choosing Line #2 or Line #3. Despite the fact that those two lines were more expensive and less healthy than Line #1. Very few people ended up in Line #1, even those students who were part of programs that guaranteed them a free breakfast or lunch. They would rather spend their own money on something that tasted better, no matter the health consequences.
I should note, this was back in 1994-1999 at MacArthur Highschool in Irving, TX. I would hope that some of the food choices have improved since then but who knows, they might have become worse.
posted by Fizz at 9:16 AM on September 8, 2015
Line #1: "Regular" school lunch. This is where students who received a free lunch would eat. The food was generally bland and not very good. Your basic protein, veggies, small dessert, milk/juice.
Line #2: Our school had a relationship established with several local fast food restaurants: Pizza Hut, Subway, Taco Bell.
Line #3: French-fries, nachos, cheese, gravy. Some variation of those ingredients.
I personally did not take a lunch to school because I was always in a rush, too lazy. And my days were set up so that I would be home at 2 or 2:30 p.m. Most days, I'd have a snack at a vending machine. On those days when I absolutely could not wait to eat something home-made, I'd end up choosing Line #2 or Line #3. Despite the fact that those two lines were more expensive and less healthy than Line #1. Very few people ended up in Line #1, even those students who were part of programs that guaranteed them a free breakfast or lunch. They would rather spend their own money on something that tasted better, no matter the health consequences.
I should note, this was back in 1994-1999 at MacArthur Highschool in Irving, TX. I would hope that some of the food choices have improved since then but who knows, they might have become worse.
posted by Fizz at 9:16 AM on September 8, 2015
Pickled cucumbers were really hot among my peers
Right, they're called pickles or gherkins, you can find them in grocery stores everywhere, they're delicious and have been popular a long time.
posted by jeather at 9:20 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Right, they're called pickles or gherkins, you can find them in grocery stores everywhere, they're delicious and have been popular a long time.
posted by jeather at 9:20 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah I remember in the 90s when you could just call them "pickles".
posted by deathmaven at 9:22 AM on September 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by deathmaven at 9:22 AM on September 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
Forbes lady: "Why Does It Seem That Everyone Gets A Free Lunch In School Except Your Kid?"
If you move to a high-poverty urban area that participates in the "Community Option" for free lunch, your child, like mine, can receive free school lunch even though he wouldn't otherwise qualify under income guidelines, because it is cheaper for the federal government to feed everyone free lunch than to do the accounting for some free/some reduced/some full price in sufficiently impoverished schools.
If your kid's not getting free lunch, maybe you're too suburban and should quit opting out of poor people.
"Parents are pushed to apply for free lunches from the federal government on behalf of their children. Even if you know you don’t qualify, the schools demand that you sign-off and get counted."
Yes because this is a major way that the federal government counts poverty statistics for Title I funding for poor kids. Every parent does the paperwork because otherwise poor schools don't get funding, and even middle class parents in high-poverty districts know how important that is. What a fuckin' bitch.
Miko: " (Freshness, color, variety, mix of sweet and sour, attractiveness, avoiding mushy textures). "
Color is now one of the federal guidelines for vegetables. (Freshness is a serious problem, tho.)
escape from the potato planet: "Is this just a cost-saving measure? Is it truly not possible for a cafeteria to serve fresh veggies without breaking the bank?"
Partly? But it's also a supply chain problem. My district serves about 20,000 meals per day (free breakfast and lunch), and of 28 schools only about half have full cafeterias; the rest have meals prepared offsite and driven to the schools (elementary, mostly, where kids are of course pickiest) in warming trucks and served there. Fresh fruits and vegetables for 14,000 people is, well, a lot. (14k lunches; the rest is breakfast.)
My district participated in the test rollout of the new guidelines starting about 18 months in advance, and we were a pilot district for the community free lunch option. I also ate hot school lunch for dinner at every school board meeting, so I have eaten my way around most of the menus, seen the portion sizes shift, made decisions on vendor contracts for five years, and eaten presentation food from those vendors (we contracted with the big guys like Sodexo and Chartwells, so it's reasonably representative). I have also eaten in the lunchroom with the kids. If you would like actual information about current school lunches, what they taste like, how good they are, how big the portions are, etc., ASK ME ANYTHING. I know a ton about free school lunch both as a decision-maker at the district level and as someone who's eaten most of them.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:22 AM on September 8, 2015 [31 favorites]
If you move to a high-poverty urban area that participates in the "Community Option" for free lunch, your child, like mine, can receive free school lunch even though he wouldn't otherwise qualify under income guidelines, because it is cheaper for the federal government to feed everyone free lunch than to do the accounting for some free/some reduced/some full price in sufficiently impoverished schools.
If your kid's not getting free lunch, maybe you're too suburban and should quit opting out of poor people.
"Parents are pushed to apply for free lunches from the federal government on behalf of their children. Even if you know you don’t qualify, the schools demand that you sign-off and get counted."
Yes because this is a major way that the federal government counts poverty statistics for Title I funding for poor kids. Every parent does the paperwork because otherwise poor schools don't get funding, and even middle class parents in high-poverty districts know how important that is. What a fuckin' bitch.
Miko: " (Freshness, color, variety, mix of sweet and sour, attractiveness, avoiding mushy textures). "
Color is now one of the federal guidelines for vegetables. (Freshness is a serious problem, tho.)
escape from the potato planet: "Is this just a cost-saving measure? Is it truly not possible for a cafeteria to serve fresh veggies without breaking the bank?"
Partly? But it's also a supply chain problem. My district serves about 20,000 meals per day (free breakfast and lunch), and of 28 schools only about half have full cafeterias; the rest have meals prepared offsite and driven to the schools (elementary, mostly, where kids are of course pickiest) in warming trucks and served there. Fresh fruits and vegetables for 14,000 people is, well, a lot. (14k lunches; the rest is breakfast.)
My district participated in the test rollout of the new guidelines starting about 18 months in advance, and we were a pilot district for the community free lunch option. I also ate hot school lunch for dinner at every school board meeting, so I have eaten my way around most of the menus, seen the portion sizes shift, made decisions on vendor contracts for five years, and eaten presentation food from those vendors (we contracted with the big guys like Sodexo and Chartwells, so it's reasonably representative). I have also eaten in the lunchroom with the kids. If you would like actual information about current school lunches, what they taste like, how good they are, how big the portions are, etc., ASK ME ANYTHING. I know a ton about free school lunch both as a decision-maker at the district level and as someone who's eaten most of them.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:22 AM on September 8, 2015 [31 favorites]
fast food, soda companies, etc being allowed to buy themselves into schools is so fucked up.
posted by nadawi at 9:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
Look, I don't blame those kids for throwing fruits and vegetables out. The food hasn't improved since my childhood.
Every year I am invited to "Thanksgiving Lunch" for my kids' schools and I won't touch a thing. The turkey is probably ok, but I've never been a fan of the texture and can't force it down. The green beans are straight from the can and taste funny - and I love green beans. Sometimes I'll heat up a bowl for a snack and just salt them. Eww. The average meals are somewhat better, but most of the smaller kids eat the chicken nuggets, maybe eat an apple, and drink the milk.
Making lunch is a pain, but I'm happy to do it (and to have the resources to do it) so the kids eat something.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 9:25 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Every year I am invited to "Thanksgiving Lunch" for my kids' schools and I won't touch a thing. The turkey is probably ok, but I've never been a fan of the texture and can't force it down. The green beans are straight from the can and taste funny - and I love green beans. Sometimes I'll heat up a bowl for a snack and just salt them. Eww. The average meals are somewhat better, but most of the smaller kids eat the chicken nuggets, maybe eat an apple, and drink the milk.
Making lunch is a pain, but I'm happy to do it (and to have the resources to do it) so the kids eat something.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 9:25 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah I remember in the 90s when you could just call them "pickles".
As if! Only a total cob nobbler would call them "pickles." TRUE 90s kids called them "stankcumbers."
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:27 AM on September 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
As if! Only a total cob nobbler would call them "pickles." TRUE 90s kids called them "stankcumbers."
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:27 AM on September 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
I bet if the fruit were labeled "FORBIDDEN" it would have a 100% consumption rate.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:30 AM on September 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:30 AM on September 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Are pickles junk food?
I looked this up because I have known a couple anti-pickle zealots.
posted by bukvich at 9:36 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I looked this up because I have known a couple anti-pickle zealots.
posted by bukvich at 9:36 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
A slice of suspiciously iridescent canned roast beef in gravy, a perfect hemisphere of reconstituted potato, and a square of gingerbread in pink custard (aka Eastwood District [Scotland] school lunch c.1976) never did me any harm …
...and we'll all hang on behind!
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:39 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
...and we'll all hang on behind!
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:39 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
...anti-pickle zealots? Like, not just "I don't like them" but "they're objectively not okay"?
I shouldn't be surprised, and yet here I am!
posted by XtinaS at 9:42 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I shouldn't be surprised, and yet here I am!
posted by XtinaS at 9:42 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I bet if the fruit were labeled "FORBIDDEN" it would have a 100% consumption rate.
Well, 50% to start with.
posted by Etrigan at 9:46 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
Well, 50% to start with.
posted by Etrigan at 9:46 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
I hope they're at least composting.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:50 AM on September 8, 2015
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:50 AM on September 8, 2015
"a tray full of what looked like a balanced meal: chicken nuggets -- "
HOLD it right there, pal!
posted by Herodios at 9:54 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
HOLD it right there, pal!
posted by Herodios at 9:54 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Periodically we get really interesting fruit which, naturally, is more likely to go in the trash because kids don't recognize it. I assume it's because the district cuts a deal with someone, or it's approaching sell-by. We had blood oranges once, perfectly fine, but they freaked everyone out. (The name doesn't help. If you call them "Italian imported red oranges" that works better.) So did kiwifruit-- nobody knew where to even start with those, even some teachers.
I suppose that's a symptom of poverty's limitations-- I never realized I had privilege in the form of recognizing fruit.
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:58 AM on September 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
I suppose that's a symptom of poverty's limitations-- I never realized I had privilege in the form of recognizing fruit.
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:58 AM on September 8, 2015 [15 favorites]
Shout out to the garbage for eating all the coleslaw.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:59 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:59 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Pickled cucumbers were really hot among my peers
jeather: Right, they're called pickles or gherkins, you can find them in grocery stores everywhere, they're delicious and have been popular a long time.
Pickled cucumbers are a traditional Danish/Scandinavian dish. You can get and slice pickles to a similar effect, but pickled cucumbers have a much lighter, more cucumbery taste, presumably because they haven't soaked in the brine for as long.
posted by zarq at 10:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
jeather: Right, they're called pickles or gherkins, you can find them in grocery stores everywhere, they're delicious and have been popular a long time.
Pickled cucumbers are a traditional Danish/Scandinavian dish. You can get and slice pickles to a similar effect, but pickled cucumbers have a much lighter, more cucumbery taste, presumably because they haven't soaked in the brine for as long.
posted by zarq at 10:01 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I suppose that's a symptom of poverty's limitations-- I never realized I had privilege in the form of recognizing fruit.
A lot of working-class brits I met in europe couldn't identify what I assumed to be nonfancy vegetables in the farmer's market, having never before seen them, or never before seen them fresh and uncanned. My friend Paul was 25 when he learned that peas came in a pod and not in bunches like berries or grapes on a vine.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:02 AM on September 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
A lot of working-class brits I met in europe couldn't identify what I assumed to be nonfancy vegetables in the farmer's market, having never before seen them, or never before seen them fresh and uncanned. My friend Paul was 25 when he learned that peas came in a pod and not in bunches like berries or grapes on a vine.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:02 AM on September 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Franklin on Food.
To demystify my oblique link above. Hard hitting school lunch reviews from a talented young critic.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:06 AM on September 8, 2015
To demystify my oblique link above. Hard hitting school lunch reviews from a talented young critic.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:06 AM on September 8, 2015
Yes because this is a major way that the federal government counts poverty statistics for Title I funding for poor kids. Every parent does the paperwork because otherwise poor schools don't get funding, and even middle class parents in high-poverty districts know how important that is. What a fuckin' bitch.
I don't understand this. On the first day of school, they send home a HUGE form that I thought was to be completed IIF you want free or reduced lunch. I never fill it out, because we're not eligible. Am I somehow causing a problem by not filling it out? If so I will def start completing it.
Our overall school district is about average in terms of poverty I guess. My daughter's (deep suburban) school is pretty affluent.
I have also noticed that my daughter and her friends dislike the school pizza, when pizza + french fries was a staple of my middle and high school lunch years. It's something about the crust. She also doesn't like french fries so maybe she's just crazy.
posted by jeoc at 10:11 AM on September 8, 2015
I don't understand this. On the first day of school, they send home a HUGE form that I thought was to be completed IIF you want free or reduced lunch. I never fill it out, because we're not eligible. Am I somehow causing a problem by not filling it out? If so I will def start completing it.
Our overall school district is about average in terms of poverty I guess. My daughter's (deep suburban) school is pretty affluent.
I have also noticed that my daughter and her friends dislike the school pizza, when pizza + french fries was a staple of my middle and high school lunch years. It's something about the crust. She also doesn't like french fries so maybe she's just crazy.
posted by jeoc at 10:11 AM on September 8, 2015
fast food, soda companies, etc being allowed to buy themselves into schools is so fucked up.
And the same Republicans who freak out over free condoms being available in the high school clinic have no problem with these obesity starter kits being sold to the same teens.
posted by Beholder at 10:15 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
And the same Republicans who freak out over free condoms being available in the high school clinic have no problem with these obesity starter kits being sold to the same teens.
posted by Beholder at 10:15 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
For many poor people, vegetables come in cans, and are usually limited to carrots, green beans, peas, and corn. I can tolerate canned corn, canned green beans are edible with salad dressing, and canned carrots or peas are nope. I'd probably eat those canned green beans, but I'd love to see if kids are offered dressing, butter, salt, pepper. Doubt it. And most Americans I know these days feed kids a fair amount of fries, mac-n-cheese from a box, hot dogs, chicken nuggets - all full of salt, fat and flavorings. Kids are likely to eat the tasty stuff 1st, and not be hungry enough to eat the rest.
Know what? It's okay. I mean, I pretty much hate the waste of food, but if a kid gets some chicken nuggets for lunch instead of no lunch, I can live with that. I was surprised to see fresh strawberries left behind, but they are awfully tart, and I bet the kids don't get any sugar. The fat free milk looked like it was attempted. fresh cucumbers were eaten. I want the nutrition to be better, but food programs are pricey, so easy trumps tasty/ more nutritious.
In some diverse areas, it must be really hard to prepare one meal for Somalian, Vietnamese, white, African-American and kids with all sorts of backgrounds.
When I see articles about the failure of something, I wonder if there's a PR machine gearing up, and if there's a PR machine gearing up, I wonder if it's really about ending food programs for kids who don't have much money.
posted by theora55 at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Know what? It's okay. I mean, I pretty much hate the waste of food, but if a kid gets some chicken nuggets for lunch instead of no lunch, I can live with that. I was surprised to see fresh strawberries left behind, but they are awfully tart, and I bet the kids don't get any sugar. The fat free milk looked like it was attempted. fresh cucumbers were eaten. I want the nutrition to be better, but food programs are pricey, so easy trumps tasty/ more nutritious.
In some diverse areas, it must be really hard to prepare one meal for Somalian, Vietnamese, white, African-American and kids with all sorts of backgrounds.
When I see articles about the failure of something, I wonder if there's a PR machine gearing up, and if there's a PR machine gearing up, I wonder if it's really about ending food programs for kids who don't have much money.
posted by theora55 at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't understand this. On the first day of school, they send home a HUGE form that I thought was to be completed IIF you want free or reduced lunch. I never fill it out, because we're not eligible. Am I somehow causing a problem by not filling it out? If so I will def start completing it.
It's a lot easier (both in terms of administration and in combatting stigma) to make sure all the kids who do qualify for free school lunches get those lunches if it's required for every child to have a completed form on file.
posted by jaguar at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's a lot easier (both in terms of administration and in combatting stigma) to make sure all the kids who do qualify for free school lunches get those lunches if it's required for every child to have a completed form on file.
posted by jaguar at 10:17 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, I pretty much hate the waste of food, but if a kid gets some chicken nuggets for lunch instead of no lunch, I can live with that.
K-12 I usually had half a peanut butter sandwich, 3 Oreos and a soda. My parents weren't fruit and vegetable people, and didn't care what I ate as long as I ate something. I grew up fine. I realize not all kids have that genetic luxury, but some do.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:21 AM on September 8, 2015
K-12 I usually had half a peanut butter sandwich, 3 Oreos and a soda. My parents weren't fruit and vegetable people, and didn't care what I ate as long as I ate something. I grew up fine. I realize not all kids have that genetic luxury, but some do.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:21 AM on September 8, 2015
Over the course of my career I have worked in offices next to schools for eleven years, and I will tell you that if it were an option for me to eat a school lunch for the adult price I would happily do it.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:30 AM on September 8, 2015
posted by infinitewindow at 10:30 AM on September 8, 2015
NPR had a segment on revising school lunch requirements this morning but I can't find it on their site right now.
Oddly some people want to relax nutritional requirements - for example, the limit on sodium. It ends of making food blander. There's also basically a ban on white bread, which seems fine, but kids who don't want wraps in whole wheat tortillas are basically opting not to eat lunch at school at all which ends up being less revenue for lunch programs.
On one hand sure, there should be a limit on sodium levels. On the other hand, most children don't have hypertension and can deal with salt in their food. If the limit is so low as to mandate bland food it seems like a counterproductive limit.
Anyway, as far as canned green beans go, I don't mind them, but yeah, there are certainly better choices.
posted by GuyZero at 10:31 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oddly some people want to relax nutritional requirements - for example, the limit on sodium. It ends of making food blander. There's also basically a ban on white bread, which seems fine, but kids who don't want wraps in whole wheat tortillas are basically opting not to eat lunch at school at all which ends up being less revenue for lunch programs.
On one hand sure, there should be a limit on sodium levels. On the other hand, most children don't have hypertension and can deal with salt in their food. If the limit is so low as to mandate bland food it seems like a counterproductive limit.
Anyway, as far as canned green beans go, I don't mind them, but yeah, there are certainly better choices.
posted by GuyZero at 10:31 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Does everything in the United States have to be the "Latest Political Battleground"?
posted by Stoatfarm at 10:35 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Stoatfarm at 10:35 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ah, here it is...
Lunch Ladies Want Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act To Lighten Up
I wish news orgs would stop using the term "lunch ladies" but there you are.
posted by GuyZero at 10:37 AM on September 8, 2015
Lunch Ladies Want Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act To Lighten Up
I wish news orgs would stop using the term "lunch ladies" but there you are.
posted by GuyZero at 10:37 AM on September 8, 2015
Does everything in the United States have to be the "Latest Political Battleground"?
It's nonsense filler that news publishers use to make your ears perk up.
posted by GuyZero at 10:38 AM on September 8, 2015
It's nonsense filler that news publishers use to make your ears perk up.
posted by GuyZero at 10:38 AM on September 8, 2015
I would have qualified under the income requirements, but barely ever had school lunch as a kid. Growing up vegetarian meant that the only option was a ¢75 PB&J on Wonderbread, which came with a red delicious apple and a box of milk. I've never liked drinking milk, and the apple was nasty.
I was really lucky to be raised by hippies that cared about this stuff, even though by middle school I was pretty much on my own for making my lunch. I had an onion bagel and some kind of chips and fruit every day, usually with some cookies too. Occasionally, I'd trade for fries or something, and occasionally I'd get a pudding cup, but school lunch always looked vile and there was definitely not the type of outreach there is today — I would have had to go out of my way to get in on the free program.
posted by klangklangston at 10:39 AM on September 8, 2015
I was really lucky to be raised by hippies that cared about this stuff, even though by middle school I was pretty much on my own for making my lunch. I had an onion bagel and some kind of chips and fruit every day, usually with some cookies too. Occasionally, I'd trade for fries or something, and occasionally I'd get a pudding cup, but school lunch always looked vile and there was definitely not the type of outreach there is today — I would have had to go out of my way to get in on the free program.
posted by klangklangston at 10:39 AM on September 8, 2015
School lunch is in fact disgusting. I have eaten in shitty Army chow halls while deployed, and eaten in U.S. school cafeterias, and I tell you, the former wins every time. Which means it's not actually hard to prepare good tasting food that includes vegetables. From what I recall, the Army moved to salad bars, with lots of dressing and bacon bits or sliced egg or cheese to put on top. Delicious. When I'm traveling with my kid and stop into an Army chow hall as an ID card holder, she always, always, heads straight for it.
So the issue is partially cost, but also partially that we just as a society choose not to value the happiness of schoolchildren. We think "Give them the proper health ingredients with their gruel" but don't actually care if they like it. No one cares about the morale of kids.
posted by corb at 10:43 AM on September 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
So the issue is partially cost, but also partially that we just as a society choose not to value the happiness of schoolchildren. We think "Give them the proper health ingredients with their gruel" but don't actually care if they like it. No one cares about the morale of kids.
posted by corb at 10:43 AM on September 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
One of my favourite things of summer is thin-sliced cuke on a plate liberally salted and sprinkled with white vinegar. The trick is to make the cucumber slices as thin as possible. They usually get eaten pretty quick at family gatherings, but then we tend to go through lots of crudites anyway.
Full-on heat-processed pickles, sweet and sour, are pretty popular too, but they're not the same as quick pickles.
posted by bonehead at 10:52 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Full-on heat-processed pickles, sweet and sour, are pretty popular too, but they're not the same as quick pickles.
posted by bonehead at 10:52 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
The cucumbers are the source of a Salmonella outbreak across 27 states.
(Not a hater. Lifelong cucumber and pickle lover. I have a long memory for the occasions when people have told me pickles are disgusting at the same time I am swallowing them.)
posted by bukvich at 11:02 AM on September 8, 2015
(Not a hater. Lifelong cucumber and pickle lover. I have a long memory for the occasions when people have told me pickles are disgusting at the same time I am swallowing them.)
posted by bukvich at 11:02 AM on September 8, 2015
jeoc: "I don't understand this. On the first day of school, they send home a HUGE form that I thought was to be completed IIF you want free or reduced lunch. I never fill it out, because we're not eligible. Am I somehow causing a problem by not filling it out? If so I will def start completing it. Our overall school district is about average in terms of poverty I guess. My daughter's (deep suburban) school is pretty affluent. "
You're fine then. In high poverty schools as much as 1/3 of the budget can come from poverty-related funding that is on a per-student-in-poverty basis, and there are different baselines for different programs, and a lot of parents who are above the poverty line for, say, WIC or TANF don't realize they qualify for some school-based programs. We also have a lot of ESL families who don't know they qualify. Having all parents fill out the paperwork also helps reduce stigma -- it's not just bureaucracy for poor people -- and it helps catch kids whose families slide in and out of poverty. (And also, contra Forbes Bitch, if you're in a high-poverty district there's more interest in your audits and 100% paperwork completion is a helpful place to be.) We also use that paperwork to differentiate our high-poverty population for testing purposes.
jeoc: " It's something about the crust"
It's whole grain and low fat and low salt. In general, traditional school lunch foods from 20 and 30 years ago got by on being high in salt and grease, and they're not allowed to do that anymore. So "traditional greasy school food" like pizza and chicken nuggets and fries is FAR AND AWAY the most likely to be gross under the new rules. The rice-based dishes, the wraps, and the pastas are all pretty darn good, IMHO, for cafeteria food. Whole-wheat pastas don't hold in heat trays or under heat lamps, though, so we only serve them at high schools.
theora55: " I'd love to see if kids are offered dressing, butter, salt, pepper. "
They're not. (Unless the dressing or dip is accounted in the lunch, which it sometimes is.)
theora55: "In some diverse areas, it must be really hard to prepare one meal for Somalian, Vietnamese, white, African-American and kids with all sorts of backgrounds. "
Yeah, this is one of the things that doesn't get a lot of attention -- in France (say), school lunches inculturate children into the French food tradition and there's substantial agreement that this is what kids should be eating and learning to like. In my kid's school, there are probably 50 highly distinct food backgrounds kids are coming from -- Lutheran casserole, whole-grain modern American health food, traditional Korean, first-generation Jaliscan, Gujarati Indian, second-generation Thai, etc. When you're preparing the same entree for around 6,000 elementary school students across a district as diverse as mine, A LOT OF KIDS ARE GOING TO REJECT IT OUT OF HAND. My kid likes the stir fries, can take or leave the chicken nuggets, but he thinks corn dogs are THE SOURCE OF ALL THAT IS EVIL AND GROSS. We don't really eat hotdogs in our family (and when we do they're all-beef Chicago-style), and we definitely don't eat battered hotdogs on sticks, and he thinks it's just vile. He won't eat a bite of it, he always comes home hungry on corndog days. But for a lot of those 6,000 kids it's a treat!
GuyZero: "There's also basically a ban on white bread, which seems fine, but kids who don't want wraps in whole wheat tortillas"
The big companies all provide "white wheat" bread now, which I think is the tool of the devil, weirdest texture ever, but the kids who will only eat white bread can get their sandwich on "white wheat."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:06 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
You're fine then. In high poverty schools as much as 1/3 of the budget can come from poverty-related funding that is on a per-student-in-poverty basis, and there are different baselines for different programs, and a lot of parents who are above the poverty line for, say, WIC or TANF don't realize they qualify for some school-based programs. We also have a lot of ESL families who don't know they qualify. Having all parents fill out the paperwork also helps reduce stigma -- it's not just bureaucracy for poor people -- and it helps catch kids whose families slide in and out of poverty. (And also, contra Forbes Bitch, if you're in a high-poverty district there's more interest in your audits and 100% paperwork completion is a helpful place to be.) We also use that paperwork to differentiate our high-poverty population for testing purposes.
jeoc: " It's something about the crust"
It's whole grain and low fat and low salt. In general, traditional school lunch foods from 20 and 30 years ago got by on being high in salt and grease, and they're not allowed to do that anymore. So "traditional greasy school food" like pizza and chicken nuggets and fries is FAR AND AWAY the most likely to be gross under the new rules. The rice-based dishes, the wraps, and the pastas are all pretty darn good, IMHO, for cafeteria food. Whole-wheat pastas don't hold in heat trays or under heat lamps, though, so we only serve them at high schools.
theora55: " I'd love to see if kids are offered dressing, butter, salt, pepper. "
They're not. (Unless the dressing or dip is accounted in the lunch, which it sometimes is.)
theora55: "In some diverse areas, it must be really hard to prepare one meal for Somalian, Vietnamese, white, African-American and kids with all sorts of backgrounds. "
Yeah, this is one of the things that doesn't get a lot of attention -- in France (say), school lunches inculturate children into the French food tradition and there's substantial agreement that this is what kids should be eating and learning to like. In my kid's school, there are probably 50 highly distinct food backgrounds kids are coming from -- Lutheran casserole, whole-grain modern American health food, traditional Korean, first-generation Jaliscan, Gujarati Indian, second-generation Thai, etc. When you're preparing the same entree for around 6,000 elementary school students across a district as diverse as mine, A LOT OF KIDS ARE GOING TO REJECT IT OUT OF HAND. My kid likes the stir fries, can take or leave the chicken nuggets, but he thinks corn dogs are THE SOURCE OF ALL THAT IS EVIL AND GROSS. We don't really eat hotdogs in our family (and when we do they're all-beef Chicago-style), and we definitely don't eat battered hotdogs on sticks, and he thinks it's just vile. He won't eat a bite of it, he always comes home hungry on corndog days. But for a lot of those 6,000 kids it's a treat!
GuyZero: "There's also basically a ban on white bread, which seems fine, but kids who don't want wraps in whole wheat tortillas"
The big companies all provide "white wheat" bread now, which I think is the tool of the devil, weirdest texture ever, but the kids who will only eat white bread can get their sandwich on "white wheat."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:06 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
He won't eat a bite of it, he always comes home hungry on corndog days.
On the rare occasions we encounter them (usually at a birthday party, or a place with a limited kids menu), my kid peels off all the batter to end up with a hot dog on a stick.
It's not the best, since the hot dogs in the middle of corn dogs are usually pretty poor, but it's better than not eating a thing.
Maybe your son could try that?
posted by madajb at 11:13 AM on September 8, 2015
On the rare occasions we encounter them (usually at a birthday party, or a place with a limited kids menu), my kid peels off all the batter to end up with a hot dog on a stick.
It's not the best, since the hot dogs in the middle of corn dogs are usually pretty poor, but it's better than not eating a thing.
Maybe your son could try that?
posted by madajb at 11:13 AM on September 8, 2015
madajb: "Maybe your son could try that?"
Oh, he thinks the hot dog part is gross too. Like I said, his only experience is of Chicago-style all-beef dogs. I sympathize -- I grew up in a town where so many people kept kosher that the supermarket didn't even CARRY pork hot dogs, and when I had my first "regular" hot dog in college I almost vomited. I was like, "WHAT THE HELL, THIS SHIT IS NASTY." It's not even the taste, the texture of regular hot dog is really different than an all-beef frank and my mouth was unprepared.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:19 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Oh, he thinks the hot dog part is gross too. Like I said, his only experience is of Chicago-style all-beef dogs. I sympathize -- I grew up in a town where so many people kept kosher that the supermarket didn't even CARRY pork hot dogs, and when I had my first "regular" hot dog in college I almost vomited. I was like, "WHAT THE HELL, THIS SHIT IS NASTY." It's not even the taste, the texture of regular hot dog is really different than an all-beef frank and my mouth was unprepared.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:19 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
surely we can refrain from calling the female reporter of a bad article a bitch, no?
posted by nadawi at 11:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
but he thinks corn dogs are THE SOURCE OF ALL THAT IS EVIL AND GROSS
It sounds like your kid knows what is up.
posted by brennen at 11:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sounds like your kid knows what is up.
posted by brennen at 11:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
My kids go to a private school and eat the school lunch (which they help make). Except they have food allergies and mostly end up eating Craisins as far as I can tell. They come home starving every day but I like reading the lunch menu and thinking "My children are eating lentil stew right now" because my motherly fantasyland is a wonderful place.
I got free lunch as a kid, and mostly only ate the "turkey gravy and mashed potatoes" which I wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole at home but somehow loved when I was at school. We live in farm country and just this year the local public school started a farm-to-table program for the school lunches which is just...so reasonable and an intelligent use of local resources and a great way to get kids involved with good eating habits and everything.
But my stepson still mostly lives for pizza day.
posted by annathea at 11:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I got free lunch as a kid, and mostly only ate the "turkey gravy and mashed potatoes" which I wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole at home but somehow loved when I was at school. We live in farm country and just this year the local public school started a farm-to-table program for the school lunches which is just...so reasonable and an intelligent use of local resources and a great way to get kids involved with good eating habits and everything.
But my stepson still mostly lives for pizza day.
posted by annathea at 11:24 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Oh, he thinks the hot dog part is gross too. Like I said, his only experience is of Chicago-style all-beef dogs."
From growing up in Chicago, my father still winces at the sight of ketchup on anything, let alone dogs, despite being vegetarian for about 40 years now. Chicago seems fantastic at enforcing food orthodoxy.
posted by klangklangston at 11:26 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
From growing up in Chicago, my father still winces at the sight of ketchup on anything, let alone dogs, despite being vegetarian for about 40 years now. Chicago seems fantastic at enforcing food orthodoxy.
posted by klangklangston at 11:26 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I looked this up because I have known a couple anti-pickle zealots.
I don't normally advocate violence, but you really should just smack these people.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:26 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't normally advocate violence, but you really should just smack these people.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:26 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is a Canadian ad for a school breakfast program that drives me absolutely crazy (the one that starts with "Scuse me, Ms. F...SCUSE ME!") because the breakfast on offer, held up as a very healthy choice, is cereal (probably with skim milk), fruit, and juice. Carbs, carbs with some vitamins, and sugar liquid. I'm probably biased as a child who had to deal with Type 1 diabetes, but that breakfast would literally have made me want to throw up, particularly first thing in the morning, and would have made me feel terrible for the rest of the day. I had a health condition, but I can't imagine it's great for anyone.
I was the child in preschool who was probably hated by the other children because I loved vegetables, including brussels sprouts, which was pointed out by the staff when the other children refused to eat them. It's amazing how liking vegetables is actually a huge privilege in life. Very thankful my parents were able to pack lunches for me, and that I liked the vegetables therein.
posted by ilana at 11:27 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was the child in preschool who was probably hated by the other children because I loved vegetables, including brussels sprouts, which was pointed out by the staff when the other children refused to eat them. It's amazing how liking vegetables is actually a huge privilege in life. Very thankful my parents were able to pack lunches for me, and that I liked the vegetables therein.
posted by ilana at 11:27 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's not even the taste, the texture of regular hot dog is really different than an all-beef frank and my mouth was unprepared.
yeah, for us, at least half the time, the hot dog goes uneaten.
posted by madajb at 11:29 AM on September 8, 2015
yeah, for us, at least half the time, the hot dog goes uneaten.
posted by madajb at 11:29 AM on September 8, 2015
From the "lunch ladies" article linked above.
[for whatever reason, kids don't like the new healthy alternatives...]
RONNEI: When we lose participation and food costs and labor costs rise, at some point the financial picture is gloomy.
AUBREY: Because if school districts lose money in their cafeteria programs...
RONNEI: They have to dip into the general fund. And the general fund is what supports classrooms.
In many societies, people would say, "Hm, so it's more expensive to feed kids better food served by fairly compensated workers, you say? Well, I guess we'll either have to raise taxes or reallocate some funds from somewhere else, since those things are important!"
Here, of course, you get to decide between, like, textbooks, wages and food.
posted by Frowner at 11:33 AM on September 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
[for whatever reason, kids don't like the new healthy alternatives...]
RONNEI: When we lose participation and food costs and labor costs rise, at some point the financial picture is gloomy.
AUBREY: Because if school districts lose money in their cafeteria programs...
RONNEI: They have to dip into the general fund. And the general fund is what supports classrooms.
In many societies, people would say, "Hm, so it's more expensive to feed kids better food served by fairly compensated workers, you say? Well, I guess we'll either have to raise taxes or reallocate some funds from somewhere else, since those things are important!"
Here, of course, you get to decide between, like, textbooks, wages and food.
posted by Frowner at 11:33 AM on September 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
It's a little too early in the morning for applesauce.
you don't need this kind of negativity in your life
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:37 AM on September 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
you don't need this kind of negativity in your life
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:37 AM on September 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
They're not. (Unless the dressing or dip is accounted in the lunch, which it sometimes is.)
This is not true for NYC schools, and we're the largest school district in the country. I point this out because I think it's important to clarify that when you say, "They're not" you're not speaking for all school districts nationwide.
Also, the NYC DOE doesn't receive federal reimbursement for its schools' salad bars or condiment/dressing/dip stations.
This is the September lunch menu for my kids' school.
Note at the bottom:
Offered Daily: Milk (1% low fat, fat free & fat free chocolate), Fresh Fruit, Canned Fruit, PB&J, and Cheese Sandwiches
Flavor Station Provided on Pizza & Pasta Days:
Granulated Garlic, Red Pepper Flakes, Parmesan Cheese, Oregano, Dipping Sauces-IND: Asian Sesame, Blue Cheese, BBQ, Caesar, Chipotle Ranch, Honey Mustard, Ranch
Condiments:
Ketchup, Mustard, Mayonnaise, Thai Chili Sauce, Hot Sauce
Dressings:
Asian Sesame, Balsamic, Blue Cheese, Caesar, Chipotle Ranch, Ranch, French, Honey Mustard, Lite Italian
posted by zarq at 11:38 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is not true for NYC schools, and we're the largest school district in the country. I point this out because I think it's important to clarify that when you say, "They're not" you're not speaking for all school districts nationwide.
Also, the NYC DOE doesn't receive federal reimbursement for its schools' salad bars or condiment/dressing/dip stations.
This is the September lunch menu for my kids' school.
Note at the bottom:
Offered Daily: Milk (1% low fat, fat free & fat free chocolate), Fresh Fruit, Canned Fruit, PB&J, and Cheese Sandwiches
Flavor Station Provided on Pizza & Pasta Days:
Granulated Garlic, Red Pepper Flakes, Parmesan Cheese, Oregano, Dipping Sauces-IND: Asian Sesame, Blue Cheese, BBQ, Caesar, Chipotle Ranch, Honey Mustard, Ranch
Condiments:
Ketchup, Mustard, Mayonnaise, Thai Chili Sauce, Hot Sauce
Dressings:
Asian Sesame, Balsamic, Blue Cheese, Caesar, Chipotle Ranch, Ranch, French, Honey Mustard, Lite Italian
posted by zarq at 11:38 AM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm just kind of appalled that "should we feed kids healthy, tasty food?" is even a fucking question.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:42 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:42 AM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Carbs, carbs with some vitamins, and sugar liquid.
I'm not a huge fan of skim milk either, although it is a pretty good source of protein. But I assume Canadian schools get it cheaper because there's glut of skim milk in Canada and at this point they're pumping it onto waste pits.
posted by GuyZero at 11:43 AM on September 8, 2015
I'm not a huge fan of skim milk either, although it is a pretty good source of protein. But I assume Canadian schools get it cheaper because there's glut of skim milk in Canada and at this point they're pumping it onto waste pits.
posted by GuyZero at 11:43 AM on September 8, 2015
I'm just kind of appalled that "should we feed kids healthy, tasty food?" is even a fucking question.
Somehow the situation is that healthy and tasty have become two distinct things with little overlap.
posted by GuyZero at 11:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Somehow the situation is that healthy and tasty have become two distinct things with little overlap.
posted by GuyZero at 11:44 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Chicago seems fantastic at enforcing food orthodoxy.
I grew up putting ketchup on hot dogs. I moved to Chicago 11 years ago. The thought of putting ketchup on a hot dog today makes me wince. I'm not sure when or how it happened, but it's actually a physical flinch reaction I get when I see someone committing that particular food sin.
also have you heard about our pizza oh man oh man
posted by phunniemee at 11:45 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I grew up putting ketchup on hot dogs. I moved to Chicago 11 years ago. The thought of putting ketchup on a hot dog today makes me wince. I'm not sure when or how it happened, but it's actually a physical flinch reaction I get when I see someone committing that particular food sin.
also have you heard about our pizza oh man oh man
posted by phunniemee at 11:45 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's a little too early in the morning for applesauce.
you don't need this kind of negativity in your life
My 2.75y/o (who, related to comments way upthread, also would eat cucumber slices all day were they provided) has on many occasions made his first words to me in the morning "I want applesauce." As we are History's Greatest Monsters and won't let him eat nothing but applesauce and limit the intake (related: we are the people who have to change his diapers) that often means that applesauce is often only consumed early in the morning.
Brought to you by yet another parent who never misses a chance to tell a story about his odd kid.
posted by phearlez at 11:47 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
you don't need this kind of negativity in your life
My 2.75y/o (who, related to comments way upthread, also would eat cucumber slices all day were they provided) has on many occasions made his first words to me in the morning "I want applesauce." As we are History's Greatest Monsters and won't let him eat nothing but applesauce and limit the intake (related: we are the people who have to change his diapers) that often means that applesauce is often only consumed early in the morning.
Brought to you by yet another parent who never misses a chance to tell a story about his odd kid.
posted by phearlez at 11:47 AM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
(ketchup on hotdogs FTW!)
posted by jillithd at 11:47 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by jillithd at 11:47 AM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
also have you heard about our pizza oh man oh man
we have, but most of us figure Chicago's other positive food contributions are good enough to warrant overlooking this abomination.
posted by phearlez at 11:48 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
we have, but most of us figure Chicago's other positive food contributions are good enough to warrant overlooking this abomination.
posted by phearlez at 11:48 AM on September 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
"also have you heard about our pizza oh man oh man"
From just enough trips to Chicago growing up, the Chicago-style pizza I crave is the thin crust in party slices. Deep dish I enjoy more when I think of it as a quiche than as a pizza.
posted by klangklangston at 11:53 AM on September 8, 2015
From just enough trips to Chicago growing up, the Chicago-style pizza I crave is the thin crust in party slices. Deep dish I enjoy more when I think of it as a quiche than as a pizza.
posted by klangklangston at 11:53 AM on September 8, 2015
or as we call it in my hipster gastropub:
Lycopene-Awakened Cheese Mass in Bread Bowl
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:58 AM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Lycopene-Awakened Cheese Mass in Bread Bowl
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:58 AM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Coupla things. The kids' Pediatrician told me it is the official stance of her organization that parents (in this case food managers,) are responsible for what is put on the plate; after that it is entirely the kids' responsibility to eat what of it they will, without intervention.
With regard to corruption, certainly at the government contractor level. There was an e-coli outbreak at a plant in California's central valley, a couple of years ago with such gross slaughter and sanitation practices, they were shut down for a cleanup. They are the fed's main meat supplier for school lunch and it was also noted they were supplying frozen meat, that was several years old in some lots. Hopefully they decentralize some.
When I was in first grade, I took my baloney, or peanut butter and jelly sandwich, each day. For a six cents extra I bought a carton of cold milk, with a paper straw, and a Moon Pie. Then later when I apparently learned nothing about food in both the US or military school system, I bought Pizza Puffs, a Hostess Berry Fruit Pie, and a Fresca for lunch, every day of my sophomore year in high school. At least I knew what it looked like I was getting, vs what was on the lunch line.
My grandma went to work as a lunch lady after her ten kids grew up. I went to see her on the lunch line at Hamilton High School, in Hamilton, Alabama. The lunch ladies were there, all with their soft plump arms, and after that for me, those arms became, "lunch room lady, arms." This with great affection.
posted by Oyéah at 12:04 PM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
With regard to corruption, certainly at the government contractor level. There was an e-coli outbreak at a plant in California's central valley, a couple of years ago with such gross slaughter and sanitation practices, they were shut down for a cleanup. They are the fed's main meat supplier for school lunch and it was also noted they were supplying frozen meat, that was several years old in some lots. Hopefully they decentralize some.
When I was in first grade, I took my baloney, or peanut butter and jelly sandwich, each day. For a six cents extra I bought a carton of cold milk, with a paper straw, and a Moon Pie. Then later when I apparently learned nothing about food in both the US or military school system, I bought Pizza Puffs, a Hostess Berry Fruit Pie, and a Fresca for lunch, every day of my sophomore year in high school. At least I knew what it looked like I was getting, vs what was on the lunch line.
My grandma went to work as a lunch lady after her ten kids grew up. I went to see her on the lunch line at Hamilton High School, in Hamilton, Alabama. The lunch ladies were there, all with their soft plump arms, and after that for me, those arms became, "lunch room lady, arms." This with great affection.
posted by Oyéah at 12:04 PM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
zarq: "This is not true for NYC schools, and we're the largest school district in the country. I point this out because I think it's important to clarify that when you say, "They're not" you're not speaking for all school districts nationwide.
Also, the NYC DOE doesn't receive federal reimbursement for its schools' salad bars or condiment/dressing/dip stations. "
That's cool, but I thought we were speaking of federal free lunch, where dressings for salads (or, more rarely, dips for vegetables) have to be included in a total calorie county and nutritional profile of the meal set for the week, and children are not given access, under the federal program, to added dressings or salt for their raw veggies.
The part where your salad bar isn't included in the federal program is the key point there.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:10 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, the NYC DOE doesn't receive federal reimbursement for its schools' salad bars or condiment/dressing/dip stations. "
That's cool, but I thought we were speaking of federal free lunch, where dressings for salads (or, more rarely, dips for vegetables) have to be included in a total calorie county and nutritional profile of the meal set for the week, and children are not given access, under the federal program, to added dressings or salt for their raw veggies.
The part where your salad bar isn't included in the federal program is the key point there.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:10 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
seems to me that we're discussing the entire school lunch program with part of the conversation being about the federal program. it seems on topic to discuss how different districts deal with different issues.
posted by nadawi at 12:13 PM on September 8, 2015
posted by nadawi at 12:13 PM on September 8, 2015
The photos in that HuffPost international school lunch post are stylized photos from a corporate photo shoot of what kids in various countries might eat, not actual school lunches.
posted by interplanetjanet at 12:16 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by interplanetjanet at 12:16 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
The subject of school lunches leaves me slightly confused. Dutch children bring a box of sandwiches to school. We're a nation of bread eaters; often we'll eat bread for breakfast and bread for lunch (which is by the way an excellent way to eat). The whole question 'what's for lunch?' is not one that's heard in this country. Bread, that's what.
A pretty ideal version of this might look like this.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:32 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
A pretty ideal version of this might look like this.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:32 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I spend three out of four weeks in a work camp. The food is, ... not horrible at best. My stomach was green with envy over those non-us lunch photos. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad that they were staged.
Bulgaroktonos: "I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child."
Extremely popular item in our self serve, lunch bag up room.
posted by Mitheral at 12:34 PM on September 8, 2015
Bulgaroktonos: "I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child."
Extremely popular item in our self serve, lunch bag up room.
posted by Mitheral at 12:34 PM on September 8, 2015
And if you have fancy pants parents with too much time on their hands, it might look like this.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:34 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:34 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
A pretty ideal version of this might look like this.
That was, more or less, lunch for me and my sisters almost every day of our lives until high school. My middle school (grades 6-7-8, although I was elsewhere for 6) and both high schools had cafeterias that were... well they were cafeterias. Fries with gravy were probably the most popular lunch by a mile.
I still remember Carmen's cookies from my middle school though. Ooey gooey chocolate chip NOMS.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:40 PM on September 8, 2015
That was, more or less, lunch for me and my sisters almost every day of our lives until high school. My middle school (grades 6-7-8, although I was elsewhere for 6) and both high schools had cafeterias that were... well they were cafeterias. Fries with gravy were probably the most popular lunch by a mile.
I still remember Carmen's cookies from my middle school though. Ooey gooey chocolate chip NOMS.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:40 PM on September 8, 2015
I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child.
Weird. I thought cucumbers were widely considered the one vegetable kids will eat plain & raw. Either that or carrots.
posted by straight at 12:42 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Weird. I thought cucumbers were widely considered the one vegetable kids will eat plain & raw. Either that or carrots.
posted by straight at 12:42 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got kicked out of my high school cafeteria for being vegetarian. Apparently there was (perhaps still is?) part of the federal regulations that said the student may not refuse the entree, and my midwest cafeteria lunches served only meat entrees about 90% of the time. (Admittedly there was also a salad bar which you could choose, but the offerings were pitiful - iceberg lettuce, bacon bits, ranch dressing, and a few sad pieces of broccoli and cauliflower.) I'd ask for, say, the hamburger meal to be just the bun and then all the sides (and perhaps generous portions of the rest if they'd be so kind) and they'd ask me what Jesus/the Bible thought of that and then found the bylaw and wouldn't let me not take the meat.
Luckily I was an honors student so I was permitted to leave the campus at lunch. I typically just went home or bought fast food or brought a snack with me.
posted by vegartanipla at 12:50 PM on September 8, 2015
Luckily I was an honors student so I was permitted to leave the campus at lunch. I typically just went home or bought fast food or brought a snack with me.
posted by vegartanipla at 12:50 PM on September 8, 2015
I loved vegetables as a kid and would have eaten so much more in school lunch had they been fresh. The limp, boiled green beans and slimy canned corn still disgust me even in memory.
Then again, the school pizza was terrible and the jello salad wasn't any better, and I never liked tater tots so I often brought lunch from home. High school being down the street from a Sheetz with a hot deli probably saved me from starvation.
posted by a halcyon day at 12:52 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Then again, the school pizza was terrible and the jello salad wasn't any better, and I never liked tater tots so I often brought lunch from home. High school being down the street from a Sheetz with a hot deli probably saved me from starvation.
posted by a halcyon day at 12:52 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was shocked to see that kid had eaten those; what a bizarre thing to serve anyone, much less a child.
Honestly my children love unseasoned cucumber slices so much that they will steal them off my plate. One of my big tricks for multi-child play dates is to rough cut up cucumbers, bell peppers, carrots, bananas, and oranges (peel still on the fruits), mix it all together, mound it up on a plate, and yell "MONKEY FOOD!" and put it down near the children. It looks like the giant piles of produce they feed to the primates at the zoo, you see. There is a giant sucking sound and then all that is left is an empty plate, strewn about with orange and banana peels. Sometimes one of the orange peels will still be rocking slightly when I come back into the room.
This has only recently become possible for my family again. My daughter has weird, weird dietary intolerances that mean that we have to be very careful about what fruits and vegetables, and how much of them, she eats. Because we can't be at school with her, she has an exemption from taking the fruit and vegetable sides at school lunch, which is otherwise required. She is eight now and has a pretty good sense of the sliding integral calculus necessary to track her sugar and fiber intake, so sometimes she will take things anyway if they're on her OK list and she has room for them in her allowances. Fortunately, we live in a school district that is well enough funded that the lunch, nursing, and nutritional staff are not too harried to recognize that her guidelines, while important, are flexible.
Also fortunately, I got her diagnosis from Seattle Children's Hospital, which is the top-level pediatric facility for five states around. This makes people more likely to respond to my insistence that she can't have high fructose corn syrup OR fresh apples but she HAS to have SweetTarts with her lunch every day with ". . . OK, then that's what we'll do" instead of "Oh my god you fucking weirdo, no." But man, you know you're in opposite land when you find yourself telling your third grader "No. NO! No you may NOT HAVE ANY MORE CARROT STICKS! OK maybe a few but you have to eat your potato chips and your SweetTarts first! LILLIAN ELEANOR I SAW YOU STEAL THAT KALE OFF MY PLATE."
TL;DR: you'd be amazed what kids want to eat.
posted by KathrynT at 1:00 PM on September 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
Honestly my children love unseasoned cucumber slices so much that they will steal them off my plate. One of my big tricks for multi-child play dates is to rough cut up cucumbers, bell peppers, carrots, bananas, and oranges (peel still on the fruits), mix it all together, mound it up on a plate, and yell "MONKEY FOOD!" and put it down near the children. It looks like the giant piles of produce they feed to the primates at the zoo, you see. There is a giant sucking sound and then all that is left is an empty plate, strewn about with orange and banana peels. Sometimes one of the orange peels will still be rocking slightly when I come back into the room.
This has only recently become possible for my family again. My daughter has weird, weird dietary intolerances that mean that we have to be very careful about what fruits and vegetables, and how much of them, she eats. Because we can't be at school with her, she has an exemption from taking the fruit and vegetable sides at school lunch, which is otherwise required. She is eight now and has a pretty good sense of the sliding integral calculus necessary to track her sugar and fiber intake, so sometimes she will take things anyway if they're on her OK list and she has room for them in her allowances. Fortunately, we live in a school district that is well enough funded that the lunch, nursing, and nutritional staff are not too harried to recognize that her guidelines, while important, are flexible.
Also fortunately, I got her diagnosis from Seattle Children's Hospital, which is the top-level pediatric facility for five states around. This makes people more likely to respond to my insistence that she can't have high fructose corn syrup OR fresh apples but she HAS to have SweetTarts with her lunch every day with ". . . OK, then that's what we'll do" instead of "Oh my god you fucking weirdo, no." But man, you know you're in opposite land when you find yourself telling your third grader "No. NO! No you may NOT HAVE ANY MORE CARROT STICKS! OK maybe a few but you have to eat your potato chips and your SweetTarts first! LILLIAN ELEANOR I SAW YOU STEAL THAT KALE OFF MY PLATE."
TL;DR: you'd be amazed what kids want to eat.
posted by KathrynT at 1:00 PM on September 8, 2015 [26 favorites]
jeoc: “I'm not sure what to make of the Forbes article claiming rampant fraud in the free and reduced price lunch system. I had free lunch through high school, but we were legit poor.”My guess is that since 185% of the poverty level for a family of four is also roughly 90% of the median household income, the Usual Suspects say, "Look! They're not poor! They have shoes and a color TV! Fraud!"
posted by ob1quixote at 1:04 PM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
One of my favourite things of summer is thin-sliced cuke on a plate liberally salted and sprinkled with white vinegar. The trick is to make the cucumber slices as thin as possible. They usually get eaten pretty quick at family gatherings, but then we tend to go through lots of crudites anyway.
here is a thing you will like: thin sliced cucumbers, thin sliced raw red onions, red wine vinegar, s&p as you like. let it marinate for like an hour maybe. eat 11 pounds of it and then breathe your terrible breath on everyone as you make more for later.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:06 PM on September 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
here is a thing you will like: thin sliced cucumbers, thin sliced raw red onions, red wine vinegar, s&p as you like. let it marinate for like an hour maybe. eat 11 pounds of it and then breathe your terrible breath on everyone as you make more for later.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:06 PM on September 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
zarq: “Pickled cucumbers are a traditional Danish/Scandinavian dish. ”Annnnnd that's where I start crying when I realize Mom's famous "Cucumbers" were precisely that. She learned to make them way she did because Dad's mother's mother's people are Danish, so Dad grew up eating them and they are one of his favorites.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:22 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
"here is a thing you will like: thin sliced cucumbers, thin sliced raw red onions, red wine vinegar, s&p as you like. let it marinate for like an hour maybe. eat 11 pounds of it and then breathe your terrible breath on everyone as you make more for later."
We also add little bits of mozzarella to this (and often sub balsamic for red wine) in my house. And it is so delicious in the heat.
posted by klangklangston at 1:23 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
We also add little bits of mozzarella to this (and often sub balsamic for red wine) in my house. And it is so delicious in the heat.
posted by klangklangston at 1:23 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'd add shaved fennel to that mix
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:26 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:26 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, I married a woman who has no appreciation for the fennel/tarragon/licorice flavor profile. Our arrangement is that I'm free to get those needs met outside the relationship as long as I don't come home stinking of absinthe and braised aromatics.
posted by klangklangston at 1:31 PM on September 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 1:31 PM on September 8, 2015 [21 favorites]
It' really hard for me to parse why kids wouldn't love vegs, since I've literately never met a kid who didn't love fresh veg. OK - some like cucumbers and some like bell peppers and some again like both. But very few children hate all vegetables. And for some, finding the main vegetable they like is a gateway to liking other greens.
The photos in that HuffPost international school lunch post are stylized photos from a corporate photo shoot of what kids in various countries might eat, not actual school lunches.
I was wondering about that. Because in real life, most of those meals look a lot better than the staged photos: the international food looks delicious and healthy when it is not staged to look more like American food..
I googled a bit, but settled on the food images from my local school food service. They are staged, but again, they look better in reality than on the pictures.
Also: every day until 7AM, you can choose a menu for your child, and there are vegetarian, kosher, halal and mainstream versions of lunch and snack every day.
posted by mumimor at 1:35 PM on September 8, 2015
The photos in that HuffPost international school lunch post are stylized photos from a corporate photo shoot of what kids in various countries might eat, not actual school lunches.
I was wondering about that. Because in real life, most of those meals look a lot better than the staged photos: the international food looks delicious and healthy when it is not staged to look more like American food..
I googled a bit, but settled on the food images from my local school food service. They are staged, but again, they look better in reality than on the pictures.
Also: every day until 7AM, you can choose a menu for your child, and there are vegetarian, kosher, halal and mainstream versions of lunch and snack every day.
posted by mumimor at 1:35 PM on September 8, 2015
"It' really hard for me to parse why kids wouldn't love vegs, since I've literately never met a kid who didn't love fresh veg. OK - some like cucumbers and some like bell peppers and some again like both. But very few children hate all vegetables. And for some, finding the main vegetable they like is a gateway to liking other greens. "
Kids' palates taste bitterness (along with most flavors) much more than adults do, and the primary flavor of many vegetables, especially green ones, is bitterness.
posted by klangklangston at 1:40 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Kids' palates taste bitterness (along with most flavors) much more than adults do, and the primary flavor of many vegetables, especially green ones, is bitterness.
posted by klangklangston at 1:40 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
As a kid, i was always very excited for fiestada day at school. Actually, I could go for one right now.
I don't remember the vegetables well, but I'm certain they were gross. I believe this because after I got out of grade school frozen vegetables became a thing, and I remember how shocked I was that vegetables didn't have to taste terrible.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:47 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't remember the vegetables well, but I'm certain they were gross. I believe this because after I got out of grade school frozen vegetables became a thing, and I remember how shocked I was that vegetables didn't have to taste terrible.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:47 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am totally moving to Brazil.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 1:59 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mysterious_stranger at 1:59 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
It' really hard for me to parse why kids wouldn't love vegs, since I've literately never met a kid who didn't love fresh veg.
As klang said, bitterness is the culprit. And then it becomes generational--kids don't like X veg, they grow up, have kids, convey that X veg is gross.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:00 PM on September 8, 2015
As klang said, bitterness is the culprit. And then it becomes generational--kids don't like X veg, they grow up, have kids, convey that X veg is gross.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:00 PM on September 8, 2015
It' really hard for me to parse why kids wouldn't love vegs, since I've literately never met a kid who didn't love fresh veg.
Each child loves some type of vegetable but 14,000 children do not all love the same vegetable. And even if such a veg were found, each child would prefer it fixed differently. This is not conducive to daily mass production of 14,000 lunches.
posted by beaning at 2:10 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Each child loves some type of vegetable but 14,000 children do not all love the same vegetable. And even if such a veg were found, each child would prefer it fixed differently. This is not conducive to daily mass production of 14,000 lunches.
posted by beaning at 2:10 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
My kids probably throw away 50% of the vegetables we put on their plates at home. But what's encouraging is that, as they get older, they seem to be eating more of them.
There is that. Getting kids to eat their vegetables (opposed to fat and sugar) ANYWHERE is not easy, especially the dark green, extra healthy vegetables (collards, chard, kale). Throw in the restrictions of mass production and yeah, it's hard.
I sometimes joke that I cook vegan and I still can't get my kids to eat their vegetables. They will eat just the potatoes or just eat the rice or just eat the beans, etc. and leave the rest. If it's pasta with vegetables, they'll pick out the pasta and leave the vegetables.
It's not easy.
I once had an (ex) pediatrician who's dietary motto was "you decide what to eat and when; they decide how much" and it still makes me mad to think of how simplistically stupid that advice is.
At school my daughter gets about 10-15 minutes to eat lunch. I'm happy if she gets an apple down. I ate there with her several times last year. The food was fine and there was always a vegan option for the entree (even if it was often block of plain roasted tofu), so I can't complain.
Don't force fruit on a kid so that they just throw it away.
IMO, it's pretty easy to get kids to eat fruit. It's the (non-carrot, non-bell pepper, non-corn, non-pea) veggies that are difficult.
Weird. I thought cucumbers were widely considered the one vegetable kids will eat plain & raw. Either that or carrots.
And yeah, most kids will eat sliced cucumbers. Carrots, red bell peppers, and cucumbers are my standard kiddie crudite. Tomatoes (a fruit I suppose) also work, especially the cherry variety.
Kids' palates taste bitterness (along with most flavors) much more than adults do, and the primary flavor of many vegetables, especially green ones, is bitterness.
Pan-fried, or pan-par-steamed broccoli is about as good as I can get. Then I usually also have to bribe with dessert. Or else chopping up the greens really small and putting them in burritos.
Does everything in the United States have to be the "Latest Political Battleground"?
Depends on whether you watch cable TV news. If so, then YES OH MY GOD YES.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:13 PM on September 8, 2015
There is that. Getting kids to eat their vegetables (opposed to fat and sugar) ANYWHERE is not easy, especially the dark green, extra healthy vegetables (collards, chard, kale). Throw in the restrictions of mass production and yeah, it's hard.
I sometimes joke that I cook vegan and I still can't get my kids to eat their vegetables. They will eat just the potatoes or just eat the rice or just eat the beans, etc. and leave the rest. If it's pasta with vegetables, they'll pick out the pasta and leave the vegetables.
It's not easy.
I once had an (ex) pediatrician who's dietary motto was "you decide what to eat and when; they decide how much" and it still makes me mad to think of how simplistically stupid that advice is.
At school my daughter gets about 10-15 minutes to eat lunch. I'm happy if she gets an apple down. I ate there with her several times last year. The food was fine and there was always a vegan option for the entree (even if it was often block of plain roasted tofu), so I can't complain.
Don't force fruit on a kid so that they just throw it away.
IMO, it's pretty easy to get kids to eat fruit. It's the (non-carrot, non-bell pepper, non-corn, non-pea) veggies that are difficult.
Weird. I thought cucumbers were widely considered the one vegetable kids will eat plain & raw. Either that or carrots.
And yeah, most kids will eat sliced cucumbers. Carrots, red bell peppers, and cucumbers are my standard kiddie crudite. Tomatoes (a fruit I suppose) also work, especially the cherry variety.
Kids' palates taste bitterness (along with most flavors) much more than adults do, and the primary flavor of many vegetables, especially green ones, is bitterness.
Pan-fried, or pan-par-steamed broccoli is about as good as I can get. Then I usually also have to bribe with dessert. Or else chopping up the greens really small and putting them in burritos.
Does everything in the United States have to be the "Latest Political Battleground"?
Depends on whether you watch cable TV news. If so, then YES OH MY GOD YES.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:13 PM on September 8, 2015
I've always been bewildered by 'fix' as a verb for food. Was it broken before? Just a silly thing that makes me giggle.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:13 PM on September 8, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:13 PM on September 8, 2015
Kids' palates taste bitterness (along with most flavors) much more than adults do, and the primary flavor of many vegetables, especially green ones, is bitterness.
You write that as if it is The Truth, but it runs counter to both my personal experience and the practice of feeding kindergarten and school children in this country. Both my own children and my foster-children like broccoli better than any other veg, and have done so since infanthood. I didn't feed them that because I was a wild-eyed vegetarian hippie, but because it was encouraged as a workable food staple by the pediatric nurses.
I'm not saying I know what children prefer; however, it seems that in several countries across the globe, it is perfectly viable to serve children green vegetables for school lunches, and they will eat them.
And: at the end of the day, individual people can serve their children and elderly and hospitalized whatever they like, but the American food industry has a huge influence on public food services across the globe, and that is just not right. So Americans: don't at all take this personally, enjoy your meals. I am not meddling in your food choices. I am worrying that your food industry's lobbyists are taking over government food policies where I live.
posted by mumimor at 3:06 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
You write that as if it is The Truth, but it runs counter to both my personal experience and the practice of feeding kindergarten and school children in this country. Both my own children and my foster-children like broccoli better than any other veg, and have done so since infanthood. I didn't feed them that because I was a wild-eyed vegetarian hippie, but because it was encouraged as a workable food staple by the pediatric nurses.
I'm not saying I know what children prefer; however, it seems that in several countries across the globe, it is perfectly viable to serve children green vegetables for school lunches, and they will eat them.
And: at the end of the day, individual people can serve their children and elderly and hospitalized whatever they like, but the American food industry has a huge influence on public food services across the globe, and that is just not right. So Americans: don't at all take this personally, enjoy your meals. I am not meddling in your food choices. I am worrying that your food industry's lobbyists are taking over government food policies where I live.
posted by mumimor at 3:06 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
The kids also don't have time to eat. My kids comes home with a full lunch box 1/2 the time since they are rushed out the door to recess. Of course they are going to eat the yummy things first.
posted by bottlebrushtree at 3:09 PM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by bottlebrushtree at 3:09 PM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I sometimes joke that I cook vegan and I still can't get my kids to eat their vegetables. They will eat just the potatoes or just eat the rice or just eat the beans, etc. and leave the rest. If it's pasta with vegetables, they'll pick out the pasta and leave the vegetables.
It's not easy.
I once had an (ex) pediatrician who's dietary motto was "you decide what to eat and when; they decide how much" and it still makes me mad to think of how simplistically stupid that advice is.
Seriously: the thing is to not worry, and stay on track. Both my girls, and now my foster-children have had picky periods of life. Just continue serving the food you believe is good, and after a while, they will eat it. Sometimes "after a while" is a year, and sometimes it is a decade. It doesn't really matter, you are the adult, and you are the person who knows what is good. In the end, they will trust you more than the lunch lady at school, and more than the ads on TV, as long as you are consistent. I promise.
I understand your feelings, though. At one point, my youngest was really picky, and even the pediatrician was worried. To my luck, she ignored all attempts to get her to eat (doctor-approved pre-fab foods), and stuck to her very narrow choices within my general menu. Now she is 6 feet tall and fit, and eats everything.
posted by mumimor at 3:18 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's not easy.
I once had an (ex) pediatrician who's dietary motto was "you decide what to eat and when; they decide how much" and it still makes me mad to think of how simplistically stupid that advice is.
Seriously: the thing is to not worry, and stay on track. Both my girls, and now my foster-children have had picky periods of life. Just continue serving the food you believe is good, and after a while, they will eat it. Sometimes "after a while" is a year, and sometimes it is a decade. It doesn't really matter, you are the adult, and you are the person who knows what is good. In the end, they will trust you more than the lunch lady at school, and more than the ads on TV, as long as you are consistent. I promise.
I understand your feelings, though. At one point, my youngest was really picky, and even the pediatrician was worried. To my luck, she ignored all attempts to get her to eat (doctor-approved pre-fab foods), and stuck to her very narrow choices within my general menu. Now she is 6 feet tall and fit, and eats everything.
posted by mumimor at 3:18 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
plus a service fee every time we put money in his account
Is there an option to pay with cash?
Yes, if we send the cash with him, the cashier puts it into his account. It's a convenience fee for our peace of mind that he won't suddenly find himself without lunch money.
posted by hollygoheavy at 3:22 PM on September 8, 2015
Is there an option to pay with cash?
Yes, if we send the cash with him, the cashier puts it into his account. It's a convenience fee for our peace of mind that he won't suddenly find himself without lunch money.
posted by hollygoheavy at 3:22 PM on September 8, 2015
With regard to corruption, certainly at the government contractor level. There was an e-coli outbreak at a plant in California's central valley, a couple of years ago with such gross slaughter and sanitation practices, they were shut down for a cleanup. They are the fed's main meat supplier for school lunch and it was also noted they were supplying frozen meat, that was several years old in some lots. Hopefully they decentralize some.
Cite please?
Because I think you're confusing the Central Valley Meat Company (Hanford, CA) recall due to "foreign materials" aka "oops some plastic fell into the grinder" in fall 2013 with the JBS Swift Beef Company (Greely, CO) recall due to E. coli in summer 2009.
JBS Swift was NOT a supplier to the federal commodity programs/National School Lunch Program.
CVMC WAS a supplier to the USDA Foods program, but I don't think any of the affected beef made it to a school or processor. And it was shipped to state agency distribution centers in three states that were not California.
Of course, you may also be thinking of the release of video from CVMC in 2012 that showed abusive practices at the facility. I believe that USDA shut them down permanently in 2014.
You might also be thinking of the six-year-old meat that was recently served to Tennessee students--resulting in the resignation of the state director of nutrition programs.
Ultimately, a lot of mass produced food is gross in some way or another.
And I'll echo Eyebrows McGee, if you have any questions about ANY of the federal child nutrition programs, not just school meals but child care and summer meals as well, I am happy to answer any questions--although I'm coming from the perspective of an administrator at the state/federal level, rather than operators at the school/district level.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:42 PM on September 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Cite please?
Because I think you're confusing the Central Valley Meat Company (Hanford, CA) recall due to "foreign materials" aka "oops some plastic fell into the grinder" in fall 2013 with the JBS Swift Beef Company (Greely, CO) recall due to E. coli in summer 2009.
JBS Swift was NOT a supplier to the federal commodity programs/National School Lunch Program.
CVMC WAS a supplier to the USDA Foods program, but I don't think any of the affected beef made it to a school or processor. And it was shipped to state agency distribution centers in three states that were not California.
Of course, you may also be thinking of the release of video from CVMC in 2012 that showed abusive practices at the facility. I believe that USDA shut them down permanently in 2014.
You might also be thinking of the six-year-old meat that was recently served to Tennessee students--resulting in the resignation of the state director of nutrition programs.
Ultimately, a lot of mass produced food is gross in some way or another.
And I'll echo Eyebrows McGee, if you have any questions about ANY of the federal child nutrition programs, not just school meals but child care and summer meals as well, I am happy to answer any questions--although I'm coming from the perspective of an administrator at the state/federal level, rather than operators at the school/district level.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:42 PM on September 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Another reason schools don't want kids bringing cash to schools is that it can lead to overt identification. We know Billy isn't a poor kid on free lunch because he just paid with cash. And since schools shouldn't have separate lines for cash-only sales (because of overt identification) then all of the lines have to be equipped to accept cash. It's so much faster, easier, and less stigmatizing to give ALL of the kids cards to swipe.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:49 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by elsietheeel at 3:49 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's really hard for me to parse why kids wouldn't love vegs, since I've literately never met a kid who didn't love fresh veg.
Come to my house, meet my child, watch him act like any vegetable ever grown, no matter how it's cooked or prepared, is akin to poison. We pack his lunch with the 6-8 things he will eat. But hey, it's up from the 3-4 things that he used to be limited to. Progress.
posted by emjaybee at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Come to my house, meet my child, watch him act like any vegetable ever grown, no matter how it's cooked or prepared, is akin to poison. We pack his lunch with the 6-8 things he will eat. But hey, it's up from the 3-4 things that he used to be limited to. Progress.
posted by emjaybee at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
But hey, it's up from the 3-4 things that he used to be limited to. Progress.
And that's the most important part!
posted by mumimor at 4:14 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
And that's the most important part!
posted by mumimor at 4:14 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's so great to see universal free lunch or breakfast programs in a few schools now. It would have helped so much when I was a kid - we were in the fun situation of having a parent who made enough to disqualify us from any poverty-targeting programs (though they didn't really exist in our area anyway), but who didn't believe in wasting money on frivolous things like tasty or nutritious food, and wouldn't release enough money to the other parent to buy that kind of thing. As long as we weren't being starved, that was good enough. So my siblings and I all went to school every single day with a lunch of as many sandwiches as we wanted, each consisting of 1 slice of the cheapest deli meat (usually bologna) with margarine on that nasty cheapo whole wheat bread. Sometimes an apple or carrot sticks (not the tasty precut ones, the dry, bitter ones cut at home). Breakfast was always sugar-free generic versions of cornflakes/shreddies/rice krispies with powdered skim milk. We were all clinically underweight because we so often wouldn't want to eat that crap. I remember being so painfully jealous of classmates' sandwiches - non-cardboard-like bread! multiple slices of meat! Lettuce! cheese! Even veggies sometimes!
I understand why so many of these food programs are only for kids living in "real" poverty - it makes sense that they can reach more disadvantaged kids with a limited funding pool that way. Still, it'd be nice if there was something to catch kids falling through the cracks like we did. That school lunch in the first link looks gross to me now, but it would have been heaven as a kid. Although I probably also would have skipped the green beans - always hated all veggies, until I was exposed to non-mushy, seasoned veggies for the first time as an adult and discovered I actually love them!
posted by randomnity at 5:01 PM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
I understand why so many of these food programs are only for kids living in "real" poverty - it makes sense that they can reach more disadvantaged kids with a limited funding pool that way. Still, it'd be nice if there was something to catch kids falling through the cracks like we did. That school lunch in the first link looks gross to me now, but it would have been heaven as a kid. Although I probably also would have skipped the green beans - always hated all veggies, until I was exposed to non-mushy, seasoned veggies for the first time as an adult and discovered I actually love them!
posted by randomnity at 5:01 PM on September 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
The problem to me is, and was when I was a kid, is that US kids are asked to eat "vegetables".
Which means boiled, plain, unseasoned greens on a plate.
They don't get dishes that are mostly or all vegetables and include spices, sauces, and flavor. No, it's just "vegetables". "Eat your vegetables" my mom used to always say, but there they sat on the plate, limp, and accusatory. Only later in life did I realize a lot of my favorite foods are 'vegetables,' just not served on their own with no salt or pepper!
posted by cell divide at 5:09 PM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Which means boiled, plain, unseasoned greens on a plate.
They don't get dishes that are mostly or all vegetables and include spices, sauces, and flavor. No, it's just "vegetables". "Eat your vegetables" my mom used to always say, but there they sat on the plate, limp, and accusatory. Only later in life did I realize a lot of my favorite foods are 'vegetables,' just not served on their own with no salt or pepper!
posted by cell divide at 5:09 PM on September 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
mumimor, I wish the food at my work cafeteria (in the same city) was 1/10th as appetizing as those photos!
Although actually mostly the cooked vegetables are the reliable part. And occasionally we get "pickled cucumbers" which are pretty tasty!
posted by nat at 5:24 PM on September 8, 2015
Although actually mostly the cooked vegetables are the reliable part. And occasionally we get "pickled cucumbers" which are pretty tasty!
posted by nat at 5:24 PM on September 8, 2015
I won't go in with my usual comment here regarding the structural issues in the US that prevent parents just sending a decent lunch along with their kids. Oh shit I just did.
Anyway, my main point was going to be - surely this would all be both easier from a kitchen point of view, and better from a consumption point of view, if dishes that combined the various ingredients were produced? That is, instead of providing A Meat, and A Pile Of Vegetables, and A Pile Of A Different Vegetable, and A Carbohydrate - why don't they provide, for example, a plate of pasta with meat and vegetables as part of the sauce? Easier to prepare, tasty, more difficult for students to avoid the nutrition.
posted by Jimbob at 5:26 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Anyway, my main point was going to be - surely this would all be both easier from a kitchen point of view, and better from a consumption point of view, if dishes that combined the various ingredients were produced? That is, instead of providing A Meat, and A Pile Of Vegetables, and A Pile Of A Different Vegetable, and A Carbohydrate - why don't they provide, for example, a plate of pasta with meat and vegetables as part of the sauce? Easier to prepare, tasty, more difficult for students to avoid the nutrition.
posted by Jimbob at 5:26 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
As a kid who was afraid of condiments and sour cream (and an adult who still is, for the most part), I appreciated when my foods were separated because that meant that the things I would eat weren't contaminated by things that made me gag just to smell. If I couldn't tell by looking what was in the food, I would stick with the safe and tolerable but not great square pizza or giant chicken nugget on a bun with fries.
posted by Night_owl at 5:31 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Night_owl at 5:31 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
It would have helped so much when I was a kid - we were in the fun situation of having a parent who made enough to disqualify us from any poverty-targeting programs (though they didn't really exist in our area anyway), but who didn't believe in wasting money on frivolous things like tasty or nutritious food, and wouldn't release enough money to the other parent to buy that kind of thing.
The thing about programs for children is that kids have so little say in their worlds, and targeting these kinds of programs as broadly as possible is a good idea for that reason. In addition to solving the sorts of problems described here, free or reduced meals act as a stealth subsidy of a few to several hundred dollars for families with children. This could mean the difference between being able to participate in band or a sport, or getting a new backpack, or shoes, or clothes.
posted by jeoc at 6:05 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
The thing about programs for children is that kids have so little say in their worlds, and targeting these kinds of programs as broadly as possible is a good idea for that reason. In addition to solving the sorts of problems described here, free or reduced meals act as a stealth subsidy of a few to several hundred dollars for families with children. This could mean the difference between being able to participate in band or a sport, or getting a new backpack, or shoes, or clothes.
posted by jeoc at 6:05 PM on September 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Anyway, my main point was going to be - surely this would all be both easier from a kitchen point of view, and better from a consumption point of view, if dishes that combined the various ingredients were produced?
Kids can be picky eaters, to the point of not eating something they like because it touched something they didn't. That's not to say that your idea isn't a fundamentally good one, but it might end up not being a net positive.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kids can be picky eaters, to the point of not eating something they like because it touched something they didn't. That's not to say that your idea isn't a fundamentally good one, but it might end up not being a net positive.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Plus allergies, plus food restrictions, plus (as someone pointed out upthread) the greater difficulty of showing everyone was served the required amount of everything. The easier it is to separate out the constituent parts, the easier is to make substitutions and to standardize portions.
posted by jaguar at 7:40 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 7:40 PM on September 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Federal guidelines severely restrict seasonings.
I learned that when my kids were in Head Start.
My son loved spices, which were a part of what I cooked, and even as a very small child knawed in cucumbers onions or slices of bell pepper. He liked hot stuff as a very small child too.
The lunches at Head Start were not something he liked.
My daughter on the other hand LOVED all the mushy, bland, disgusting things! She did not learn to like Indian food until she was an adult.
My son now hardly eats anything hotter than McCormic mild taco seasoning.
Kids tastes change over time. School lunches pretty much have to be mass - produced, according to specific regulations. These regulations often have more to do with price supports to agriculture than to do with anyone's health, or other needs.
By my teens I really did not like normal school lunches. They seemed to get ickier all the time.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 8:06 PM on September 8, 2015
I learned that when my kids were in Head Start.
My son loved spices, which were a part of what I cooked, and even as a very small child knawed in cucumbers onions or slices of bell pepper. He liked hot stuff as a very small child too.
The lunches at Head Start were not something he liked.
My daughter on the other hand LOVED all the mushy, bland, disgusting things! She did not learn to like Indian food until she was an adult.
My son now hardly eats anything hotter than McCormic mild taco seasoning.
Kids tastes change over time. School lunches pretty much have to be mass - produced, according to specific regulations. These regulations often have more to do with price supports to agriculture than to do with anyone's health, or other needs.
By my teens I really did not like normal school lunches. They seemed to get ickier all the time.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 8:06 PM on September 8, 2015
[link]
Here is the dirt on the central valley meat producer. In 2012 they were caught torturing cows. In 2014 they were shut down for uncleanliness, more than just bits of plastic, but hair raising enough, (I guess,) they would not discuss it.
The old meat from Tennessee is another example of fat government contracts for school food, to unscrupulous suppliers. Thanks for the example.
posted by Oyéah at 9:02 PM on September 8, 2015
Here is the dirt on the central valley meat producer. In 2012 they were caught torturing cows. In 2014 they were shut down for uncleanliness, more than just bits of plastic, but hair raising enough, (I guess,) they would not discuss it.
The old meat from Tennessee is another example of fat government contracts for school food, to unscrupulous suppliers. Thanks for the example.
posted by Oyéah at 9:02 PM on September 8, 2015
Kids can be picky eaters, to the point of not eating something they like because it touched something they didn't. That's not to say that your idea isn't a fundamentally good one, but it might end up not being a net positive.
At least around here, being poor (and eligible for free school breakfasts and lunches) usually means eating a fairly restricted diet at home based on bland and starchy staples. Some of those kids would of course love it if school food meant exciting flavors and combinations of food, but for a lot that would just be unfamiliar and odd.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:28 AM on September 9, 2015
At least around here, being poor (and eligible for free school breakfasts and lunches) usually means eating a fairly restricted diet at home based on bland and starchy staples. Some of those kids would of course love it if school food meant exciting flavors and combinations of food, but for a lot that would just be unfamiliar and odd.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:28 AM on September 9, 2015
I taught at a school that was very small, although the community was better off than many. Still, the cafeteria depended heavily on government supplied foodstuff and a lot of it was pure crap. I had never seen hot dogs that were partly gray and consider consumable. Brrr.
For fruit in the fall they often had a crate of small red delicious apples, which is criminal on two fronts: (1) red delicious apples taste like cardboard (2) there are dozens of varieties that are locally grown that taste far better.
I was going to say that I don't blame the nutrionist, as her budget was tiny, but I actually do blame her. There was not a lot of imagination in the prep of the food. Industrial sized can of corn/green beans into a tray and into the warmer.
As far as food waste is concerned, one of the science teachers set up a program to separate the trash into compostables, paper, and everything else. She also got the local waste hauling place to help out. Great program. Lasted until she left to a school system that paid better. Since nobody was there to support it, it went away.
I will also mention that on MLK's birthday, my own high school served fried chicken and watermelon. I SWEAR I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP. Appalling.
posted by plinth at 6:51 AM on September 9, 2015
For fruit in the fall they often had a crate of small red delicious apples, which is criminal on two fronts: (1) red delicious apples taste like cardboard (2) there are dozens of varieties that are locally grown that taste far better.
I was going to say that I don't blame the nutrionist, as her budget was tiny, but I actually do blame her. There was not a lot of imagination in the prep of the food. Industrial sized can of corn/green beans into a tray and into the warmer.
As far as food waste is concerned, one of the science teachers set up a program to separate the trash into compostables, paper, and everything else. She also got the local waste hauling place to help out. Great program. Lasted until she left to a school system that paid better. Since nobody was there to support it, it went away.
I will also mention that on MLK's birthday, my own high school served fried chicken and watermelon. I SWEAR I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP. Appalling.
posted by plinth at 6:51 AM on September 9, 2015
I will also mention that on MLK's birthday, my own high school served fried chicken and watermelon. I SWEAR I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP. Appalling.
*speechless*
posted by zarq at 7:34 AM on September 9, 2015
*speechless*
posted by zarq at 7:34 AM on September 9, 2015
That's cool, but I thought we were speaking of federal free lunch,
That's fine. That was not clear to me from your comment, and since we've been discussing ways various school districts work within and bypass federal guidelines, not just free lunch programs it did not occur to me that you would limit the context.
The part where your salad bar isn't included in the federal program is the key point there.
Yes, it is.
posted by zarq at 7:56 AM on September 9, 2015
That's fine. That was not clear to me from your comment, and since we've been discussing ways various school districts work within and bypass federal guidelines, not just free lunch programs it did not occur to me that you would limit the context.
The part where your salad bar isn't included in the federal program is the key point there.
Yes, it is.
posted by zarq at 7:56 AM on September 9, 2015
incidentally does anyone have kids in a school that offers non-dairy or lactose-free milk options for extra sale or even as part of the school-subsidized lunches?
posted by poffin boffin at 8:29 AM on September 9, 2015
posted by poffin boffin at 8:29 AM on September 9, 2015
Oyéah:
Okay but that wasn't an E. coli outbreak, nor did the meat go to California schools. So your examples and citation are incorrect.
And I think you missed the point of the Tennessee story. The state department of health services didn't provide enough resources to administer the child nutrition programs correctly. It's not about "fat government contracts".
The federal government has pretty strict regulations about procurement and contracting when expending federal funds.
posted by elsietheeel at 9:54 AM on September 9, 2015
Okay but that wasn't an E. coli outbreak, nor did the meat go to California schools. So your examples and citation are incorrect.
And I think you missed the point of the Tennessee story. The state department of health services didn't provide enough resources to administer the child nutrition programs correctly. It's not about "fat government contracts".
The federal government has pretty strict regulations about procurement and contracting when expending federal funds.
posted by elsietheeel at 9:54 AM on September 9, 2015
My kid's school offers soy, rice, and Lactaid milk as well as 1%, skim, and chocolate milk as the milk choices for lunch. Kids can buy just the milk or they can get it with their lunch.
posted by KathrynT at 9:55 AM on September 9, 2015
posted by KathrynT at 9:55 AM on September 9, 2015
incidentally does anyone have kids in a school that offers non-dairy or lactose-free milk options for extra sale or even as part of the school-subsidized lunches?
I've seen both for sale in schools in California, and they can be offered as part of the reimbursable meal for all students if the school chooses, provided the milk adheres to the nutrition requirements for milk.
And if a child has a documented medical need for nondairy or lactose-free milk then the school/district has to accommodate that when presented with a signed medical statement.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:01 AM on September 9, 2015
I've seen both for sale in schools in California, and they can be offered as part of the reimbursable meal for all students if the school chooses, provided the milk adheres to the nutrition requirements for milk.
And if a child has a documented medical need for nondairy or lactose-free milk then the school/district has to accommodate that when presented with a signed medical statement.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:01 AM on September 9, 2015
I went to school in the US and another country. The school food in my American schools was sort of a universe away from the other school food I experienced. Somehow the American school food tended to be soggy, over or undercooked, or recycled (e.g. meatball soup would somehow closely resemble the meatballs and gravy from the previous day). I know the HuffPost photos are staged, but I did have a good experience with non-American school food. Like, I still miss the pork noodle soup from my old elementary school. Been wondering whether they still offer pork noodle soup at my old school (and if I could sort of sneak back there to eat it). My school friends from that school remember the food fondly too - earlier this year we were actually reminiscing wistfully about school food.
Similar to mumimor, I also remember there being vegetarian and halal options. And I don't remember any kids having any aversion to vegetables - I guess I was living in a country that views eating vegetables as a normal thing. Seaweed snacks were really popular when I was in elementary school, too.
posted by aielen at 2:07 AM on September 10, 2015
Similar to mumimor, I also remember there being vegetarian and halal options. And I don't remember any kids having any aversion to vegetables - I guess I was living in a country that views eating vegetables as a normal thing. Seaweed snacks were really popular when I was in elementary school, too.
posted by aielen at 2:07 AM on September 10, 2015
I've worked briefly in places that had a cafeteria, and they usually produced lowest common denominator food. Why would a school cafeteria be different?
I don't really get why it is hard for American parents to pack their kids lunch. Mine take left overs, or a sandwich plus a piece of fruit. For morning tea they get some crackers and cheese or some other simple snack. Occasionally, they will bring home the fruit or half a sandwich with a story that revolves around some urgent lunchtime playing, but usually they eat the lot.
The idea of pizza or nuggets and fries as a routine meal is a bit worrying, but I am sure they would eat it if that was what was on offer. I know that once every week or two we let them get a lunch order from the canteen and they often choose a sausage roll or pizza slice.
Yesterday I sent the girls with flatbread wraps with salad and mayo, and the boys with flatbread toasted in a sandwich press with cheese in between (it gets crisp and the cheese melts into a tasty glue).
These were reasonably healthy lunches, and took about 10 mins to prepare while I fed them breakfast. Literally, the hardest part was making each child decide which they wanted.
I guess if they got free food at school I might skip the process, but the lunches they take routinely cost less than $1 per kid, so it isn't financially difficult compared to the $2+ prices others have noted.
Is it perhaps that kids wouldn't like to take a lunch from home while everybody else was eating nuggets/pizza?
I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I recognise I am doing well for me or my partner to be able to be there to feed the kids breakfast and make their lunches most mornings, but the bulk of comments in this thread aren't from impoverished workers scrambling to cover two jobs, but middle class parents with various ideas to make others improve their kids diet. Why not just do it yourself and pack them a better lunch?
posted by bystander at 5:17 AM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't really get why it is hard for American parents to pack their kids lunch. Mine take left overs, or a sandwich plus a piece of fruit. For morning tea they get some crackers and cheese or some other simple snack. Occasionally, they will bring home the fruit or half a sandwich with a story that revolves around some urgent lunchtime playing, but usually they eat the lot.
The idea of pizza or nuggets and fries as a routine meal is a bit worrying, but I am sure they would eat it if that was what was on offer. I know that once every week or two we let them get a lunch order from the canteen and they often choose a sausage roll or pizza slice.
Yesterday I sent the girls with flatbread wraps with salad and mayo, and the boys with flatbread toasted in a sandwich press with cheese in between (it gets crisp and the cheese melts into a tasty glue).
These were reasonably healthy lunches, and took about 10 mins to prepare while I fed them breakfast. Literally, the hardest part was making each child decide which they wanted.
I guess if they got free food at school I might skip the process, but the lunches they take routinely cost less than $1 per kid, so it isn't financially difficult compared to the $2+ prices others have noted.
Is it perhaps that kids wouldn't like to take a lunch from home while everybody else was eating nuggets/pizza?
I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I recognise I am doing well for me or my partner to be able to be there to feed the kids breakfast and make their lunches most mornings, but the bulk of comments in this thread aren't from impoverished workers scrambling to cover two jobs, but middle class parents with various ideas to make others improve their kids diet. Why not just do it yourself and pack them a better lunch?
posted by bystander at 5:17 AM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
but the bulk of comments in this thread aren't from impoverished workers scrambling to cover two jobs, but middle class parents with various ideas to make others improve their kids diet. Why not just do it yourself and pack them a better lunch?
Because the school lunch system should provide a healthy lunch to people who are scrambling to cover two jobs, don't have the money, don't know how to cook, or don't know what's healthy, too? All those people exist, in large numbers, and a system that just serves them crap isn't a good system.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:41 AM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Because the school lunch system should provide a healthy lunch to people who are scrambling to cover two jobs, don't have the money, don't know how to cook, or don't know what's healthy, too? All those people exist, in large numbers, and a system that just serves them crap isn't a good system.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:41 AM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
The US school lunch program is designed to address the vast poverty among children in the US. Other countries don't have this problem or handle this problem differently, but in the US, we handle it by giving many many children free breakfast and lunch both during the school year and in the summer.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:57 AM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:57 AM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, school meals represent a lot of safety net that isn't being provided elsewhere.
posted by phearlez at 7:28 AM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by phearlez at 7:28 AM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
bystander: " the bulk of comments in this thread aren't from impoverished workers scrambling to cover two jobs, but middle class parents with various ideas to make others improve their kids diet. Why not just do it yourself and pack them a better lunch?"
First, I don't think they're that bad (as I said above), having eaten my way around the school menu over the course of five years, and I think people who are going GAAAAH UNIFORMLY TERRIBLE have mostly not eaten in school cafeterias and are forming their opinions based on pictures in the news, which obviously highlight the gross bits. I also think news stories tend to focus on "kids don't eat what's on their tray" and leave aside the issues that surrounded serving 14,000 lunches that are all the SAME lunch to a hugely diverse student population with a variety of racial, ethnic, immigration, and class backgrounds, with very different cultural foodways, in underequipped elementary school cafeterias. When I eat school lunch, I also do not eat the green beans, because they are gross, and I am a human person with taste buds who is allowed to dislike canned green beans and decide not to eat them. But they only come up at most once every two weeks, and along with the hot green beans there is a cold vegetable and a fruit. Yet for some reason when 6-year-olds (who are the pickiest people on the planet) decide they're not going to eat the green beans, everyone's like "THE SCHOOL FOOD SYSTEM IS FAILING!" and not like "Hey some kids aren't going to like green beans and you're serving 14,000 of the same meal, can't win 'em all." HOW MANY kids aren't eating green beans? WHICH kids aren't eat green beans? Are they teeny kindergarten girls who are barely 5 and for whom the standard meal size looks like two meals? Are they kids whose native foodways don't feature green beans? Or is it every kid in the cafeteria who isn't actively in the sort of growth spurt where they inhale food indiscriminately? Those are all different issues.
Second, I am not a terribly functional person before 9 a.m. and I find food preparation sort-of stressful in general; my kids are 6 and 4 and have figured out they like breakfast better if they get it themselves, because mom has an alarmingly high rate of "pour orange juice into cereal" because mom does not function at 6:30 a.m. Woe betide them on days I have to send a lunch. It'd probably go well for about two weeks and then they'd start getting meals of "shit, there's nothing in the fridge."
Third, I'm philosophically committed to equality for children in school, possibly to an unusual degree I admit, and I'm uncomfortable "buying" my way out of things simply because I can afford to. A lot of middle-class parents say "Well we'll opt out of that and advocate for it to improve" but they don't, and they're not serious about it, because their kids don't use it. I think school lunch matters, and I think it matters a lot more to children in poverty who maybe don't have parents in a position to advocate for them than it does to my kids, so we're going to stick with school lunch and advocate not just for our own kids but for every kid in the system. A lot of the problems in schools in the United States come from the ease with which wealthier parents can simply completely opt out of ever dealing with poor kids and poor-kid problems and poor-kid schools, and the results of that are vicious and cruel. When you make a decision to move to a wealthy suburb so your child can have "educational advantages," you are also making an affirmative decision to leave poor urban children behind, a decision for which I feel we are morally culpable.
(I mean, you are free to make that decision and I certainly understand why people do. I just don't think "but it's for my child" is a "get out of ethics free" card. You're making a decision that money should by advantages and that your kid is more important than other kids and that you choose not to have (in this instance) a responsibility to the larger society. If we took that as our categorical imperative, you can see the horrible problem. It's a fundamentally Randian ethic. And it is probably your single largest political decision, because where you live determines where your property tax dollars go and they primarily go to schools, so when national politicians like Paul Ryan pop up, blabbering on about destroying the social safety net for the good of the poor and directly espousing Ayn Rand and you're like, ugh, why do we have to listen to these idiots? Well, that's why. Most of America turns into Ayn Rand when it involves their children and schools. Given a direct ethical choice, they choose Rand.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:34 AM on September 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
First, I don't think they're that bad (as I said above), having eaten my way around the school menu over the course of five years, and I think people who are going GAAAAH UNIFORMLY TERRIBLE have mostly not eaten in school cafeterias and are forming their opinions based on pictures in the news, which obviously highlight the gross bits. I also think news stories tend to focus on "kids don't eat what's on their tray" and leave aside the issues that surrounded serving 14,000 lunches that are all the SAME lunch to a hugely diverse student population with a variety of racial, ethnic, immigration, and class backgrounds, with very different cultural foodways, in underequipped elementary school cafeterias. When I eat school lunch, I also do not eat the green beans, because they are gross, and I am a human person with taste buds who is allowed to dislike canned green beans and decide not to eat them. But they only come up at most once every two weeks, and along with the hot green beans there is a cold vegetable and a fruit. Yet for some reason when 6-year-olds (who are the pickiest people on the planet) decide they're not going to eat the green beans, everyone's like "THE SCHOOL FOOD SYSTEM IS FAILING!" and not like "Hey some kids aren't going to like green beans and you're serving 14,000 of the same meal, can't win 'em all." HOW MANY kids aren't eating green beans? WHICH kids aren't eat green beans? Are they teeny kindergarten girls who are barely 5 and for whom the standard meal size looks like two meals? Are they kids whose native foodways don't feature green beans? Or is it every kid in the cafeteria who isn't actively in the sort of growth spurt where they inhale food indiscriminately? Those are all different issues.
Second, I am not a terribly functional person before 9 a.m. and I find food preparation sort-of stressful in general; my kids are 6 and 4 and have figured out they like breakfast better if they get it themselves, because mom has an alarmingly high rate of "pour orange juice into cereal" because mom does not function at 6:30 a.m. Woe betide them on days I have to send a lunch. It'd probably go well for about two weeks and then they'd start getting meals of "shit, there's nothing in the fridge."
Third, I'm philosophically committed to equality for children in school, possibly to an unusual degree I admit, and I'm uncomfortable "buying" my way out of things simply because I can afford to. A lot of middle-class parents say "Well we'll opt out of that and advocate for it to improve" but they don't, and they're not serious about it, because their kids don't use it. I think school lunch matters, and I think it matters a lot more to children in poverty who maybe don't have parents in a position to advocate for them than it does to my kids, so we're going to stick with school lunch and advocate not just for our own kids but for every kid in the system. A lot of the problems in schools in the United States come from the ease with which wealthier parents can simply completely opt out of ever dealing with poor kids and poor-kid problems and poor-kid schools, and the results of that are vicious and cruel. When you make a decision to move to a wealthy suburb so your child can have "educational advantages," you are also making an affirmative decision to leave poor urban children behind, a decision for which I feel we are morally culpable.
(I mean, you are free to make that decision and I certainly understand why people do. I just don't think "but it's for my child" is a "get out of ethics free" card. You're making a decision that money should by advantages and that your kid is more important than other kids and that you choose not to have (in this instance) a responsibility to the larger society. If we took that as our categorical imperative, you can see the horrible problem. It's a fundamentally Randian ethic. And it is probably your single largest political decision, because where you live determines where your property tax dollars go and they primarily go to schools, so when national politicians like Paul Ryan pop up, blabbering on about destroying the social safety net for the good of the poor and directly espousing Ayn Rand and you're like, ugh, why do we have to listen to these idiots? Well, that's why. Most of America turns into Ayn Rand when it involves their children and schools. Given a direct ethical choice, they choose Rand.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:34 AM on September 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
the bulk of comments in this thread aren't from impoverished workers scrambling to cover two jobs, but middle class parents with various ideas to make others improve their kids diet. Why not just do it yourself and pack them a better lunch?
I do. That doesn't mean I don't care about the kids of people who don't have that option.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:14 AM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I do. That doesn't mean I don't care about the kids of people who don't have that option.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:14 AM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's also worth noting that even middle class parents, even with only one parent working a 9-5, are still busy and it is exhausting to come up with increasingly desperate ways you can make ever more interesting sandwiches that can be eaten in 20 minutes, as opposed to real meals that are difficult and can't.
posted by corb at 8:32 AM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:32 AM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
interesting sandwiches that can be eaten in 20 minutes
Ohhhhh this brings up another issue and I really want to open this can of worms but I can't today.
So all I am going to say is if the kid who brings lunch from home only gets 20 minutes to eat... how long does the kid in the cafeteria lunch line get?
Bonus question: How long does the LAST kid in the cafeteria lunch line get?
posted by elsietheeel at 9:13 AM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ohhhhh this brings up another issue and I really want to open this can of worms but I can't today.
So all I am going to say is if the kid who brings lunch from home only gets 20 minutes to eat... how long does the kid in the cafeteria lunch line get?
Bonus question: How long does the LAST kid in the cafeteria lunch line get?
posted by elsietheeel at 9:13 AM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't really get why it is hard for American parents to pack their kids lunch.
Great, then you can come over here and do it for mine. I loathe mornings, I have an 8 year old who likes hot lunch but NOT soup or stew and who can't take nuts or eggs to school lunch due to allergies in her classroom (and who also loathes mornings and needs a lot of hands-on shepherding to get her ready for school) plus a 4 year old who is bound and determined to disrupt and destroy everything I do. Some mornings I have to make DINNER in that time, too. I already have to make three people breakfast and get three people dressed and get all three of us out the door to walk up to school, and that includes finding the time to get myself fed, all in about half an hour or so.
Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
posted by KathrynT at 9:47 AM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Great, then you can come over here and do it for mine. I loathe mornings, I have an 8 year old who likes hot lunch but NOT soup or stew and who can't take nuts or eggs to school lunch due to allergies in her classroom (and who also loathes mornings and needs a lot of hands-on shepherding to get her ready for school) plus a 4 year old who is bound and determined to disrupt and destroy everything I do. Some mornings I have to make DINNER in that time, too. I already have to make three people breakfast and get three people dressed and get all three of us out the door to walk up to school, and that includes finding the time to get myself fed, all in about half an hour or so.
Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
posted by KathrynT at 9:47 AM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Even though my children mostly prefer the lunch I pack for them, and only eat the school lunch if they can see I am desperate and there is nothing in the fridge (very rare occasions), I personally support school lunches.
I also believe an hour should be set aside for lunch-break, with 30 mins lunch and 30 mins play. Having all the children sit at tables together and sharing a meal is civilisation, and children need to be civilized. They also enjoy being civilized.
But it won't be easy to convince politicians and parents who grew up with soggy lunches prepared by their mothers the night before ("I grew up with a soggy lunch and I'm just fine, so why should the kids have less.. or more"), so the introduction of EAT, which I linked to above is a huge step ahead. Not least for the less fortunate children who don't even get the soggy lunch, and are hungry every single day.
posted by mumimor at 10:12 AM on September 10, 2015
I also believe an hour should be set aside for lunch-break, with 30 mins lunch and 30 mins play. Having all the children sit at tables together and sharing a meal is civilisation, and children need to be civilized. They also enjoy being civilized.
But it won't be easy to convince politicians and parents who grew up with soggy lunches prepared by their mothers the night before ("I grew up with a soggy lunch and I'm just fine, so why should the kids have less.. or more"), so the introduction of EAT, which I linked to above is a huge step ahead. Not least for the less fortunate children who don't even get the soggy lunch, and are hungry every single day.
posted by mumimor at 10:12 AM on September 10, 2015
I reached out to a neighborhood friend who had gotten free or subsidized lunches growing up to see if my memory was correct from the few times I forgot or lost mine. He confirmed that the way it used to be handled at our elementary school was that there'd be a line for steam table stuff you could buy, but if you were getting free or subsidized lunch you had to wait until the all the kids who bought stuff had gone through and then you got a bag lunch with either a PB&J or bologna sandwich on white bread with an apple and a milk carton. I assume they've fixed that now, but he specifically remembered it as a humiliating part of the process.
posted by klangklangston at 11:49 AM on September 10, 2015
posted by klangklangston at 11:49 AM on September 10, 2015
klangklangston: "but if you were getting free or subsidized lunch you had to wait until the all the kids who bought stuff had gone through and then you got a bag lunch with either a PB&J or bologna sandwich on white bread with an apple and a milk carton. I assume they've fixed that now, but he specifically remembered it as a humiliating part of the process."
Yes, and it's one of the justifications for the "Community Option" program that my family's school participates in, where ALL children are offered free federal lunch. It saves the feds money on paperwork, but it also reduces stigma for children receiving free lunch. It used to be, at the elementary school we attend, that the poor kids all got school lunch and the middle-class kids all brown-bagged it and it was a big class divide and the kids often ended up sitting separately in the lunchroom even because one group would go to their lockers and grab bags and the other would go through the lunch line. Now with universal free lunch, most middle class parents have taken advantage of the convenience (after several months of convincing them that, no, it was okay, they weren't taking anything away from anybody, it actually saves money -- people were really concerned that they were going to be "cheating" by accepting free lunch), and 95% of the kids go through the lunch line and eat the same hot lunch and one of the lunch ladies just counts off how many kids go through the line with a golf clicker. Since they don't have to account for free, reduced, and full-price lunches, they don't have to have kids pay or use swipe cards or have stickers on their IDs or anything like that -- they just give them food and count the total number of meals dispensed.
But in general there's been a lot more concern among school administrators about creating systems that don't mark out poor children receiving free lunch -- it's one reason some schools have gone to mandatory swipe cards, because you can't tell who's got a "free lunch" loaded on their swipe card and who's buying it with money their parents put there.
Another unexpected benefit of the Community Option program has been at PTA meetings, which are sometimes a bit awkward because our school is highly diverse and made up of several distinct-but-cohesive neighborhood communities that don't necessarily overlap a lot. So sometimes you're kind-of standing there in little knots of people you know looking across the room at other knots of people like junior high students at a dance going, "Oh God, if I ask how work is going will I sound like an elitist if they're unemployed? Is my English good enough to talk to the white parents over there or will they have trouble understanding me? Should I ask if the mom in hijab goes to the mosque or is that making cultural assumptions? OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD." and people have a lot of trouble making small talk. Well now that all our kids EAT THE SAME LUNCH, that is like the #1 way to start a conversation at school pickup or PTA meetings. "What was lunch today? Was it the salisbury steak?" "Oh, Johnny HATES the salisbury steak." "Nasim hates it too! But tomorrow is pancake lunch, he loves that." "Mmm, those pancakes are Latoy's favorite!" It is extremely safe small talk and you can be sure everyone shares! Sharing food builds community! I mean, I know people say that, but I had no idea it worked so well for the parents who aren't even sharing the food. :) You can always safely start a conversation with a strange parent now with a comment on the weather or a comment on the school lunch.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:07 PM on September 10, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yes, and it's one of the justifications for the "Community Option" program that my family's school participates in, where ALL children are offered free federal lunch. It saves the feds money on paperwork, but it also reduces stigma for children receiving free lunch. It used to be, at the elementary school we attend, that the poor kids all got school lunch and the middle-class kids all brown-bagged it and it was a big class divide and the kids often ended up sitting separately in the lunchroom even because one group would go to their lockers and grab bags and the other would go through the lunch line. Now with universal free lunch, most middle class parents have taken advantage of the convenience (after several months of convincing them that, no, it was okay, they weren't taking anything away from anybody, it actually saves money -- people were really concerned that they were going to be "cheating" by accepting free lunch), and 95% of the kids go through the lunch line and eat the same hot lunch and one of the lunch ladies just counts off how many kids go through the line with a golf clicker. Since they don't have to account for free, reduced, and full-price lunches, they don't have to have kids pay or use swipe cards or have stickers on their IDs or anything like that -- they just give them food and count the total number of meals dispensed.
But in general there's been a lot more concern among school administrators about creating systems that don't mark out poor children receiving free lunch -- it's one reason some schools have gone to mandatory swipe cards, because you can't tell who's got a "free lunch" loaded on their swipe card and who's buying it with money their parents put there.
Another unexpected benefit of the Community Option program has been at PTA meetings, which are sometimes a bit awkward because our school is highly diverse and made up of several distinct-but-cohesive neighborhood communities that don't necessarily overlap a lot. So sometimes you're kind-of standing there in little knots of people you know looking across the room at other knots of people like junior high students at a dance going, "Oh God, if I ask how work is going will I sound like an elitist if they're unemployed? Is my English good enough to talk to the white parents over there or will they have trouble understanding me? Should I ask if the mom in hijab goes to the mosque or is that making cultural assumptions? OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD." and people have a lot of trouble making small talk. Well now that all our kids EAT THE SAME LUNCH, that is like the #1 way to start a conversation at school pickup or PTA meetings. "What was lunch today? Was it the salisbury steak?" "Oh, Johnny HATES the salisbury steak." "Nasim hates it too! But tomorrow is pancake lunch, he loves that." "Mmm, those pancakes are Latoy's favorite!" It is extremely safe small talk and you can be sure everyone shares! Sharing food builds community! I mean, I know people say that, but I had no idea it worked so well for the parents who aren't even sharing the food. :) You can always safely start a conversation with a strange parent now with a comment on the weather or a comment on the school lunch.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:07 PM on September 10, 2015 [8 favorites]
Eyebrows McGee, I love that you are promoting the Community Eligibility Provision so hard. I wish we could have a universal free lunch and breakfast program in the US. The CEP might be as close as we will ever get.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:55 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by elsietheeel at 3:55 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
elsietheeel: " I love that you are promoting the Community Eligibility Provision so hard."
My district was one of the three in the US that piloted it for the federal government, and I was on the school board when we voted to participate in the pilot and ran it. Although it was mostly that the feds looked for some test districts that would meet their criteria and allow them to run a good test and asked if we would participate, I'm very proud of having been involved in the pilot program!
Honestly everybody -- parents, teachers, administrators, food service workers -- LOVES it. It's a great program. It adds convenience and reduces hassle for everyone, and it gets more hungry kids fed, especially those who teeter on the edge of food insecurity.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:04 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
My district was one of the three in the US that piloted it for the federal government, and I was on the school board when we voted to participate in the pilot and ran it. Although it was mostly that the feds looked for some test districts that would meet their criteria and allow them to run a good test and asked if we would participate, I'm very proud of having been involved in the pilot program!
Honestly everybody -- parents, teachers, administrators, food service workers -- LOVES it. It's a great program. It adds convenience and reduces hassle for everyone, and it gets more hungry kids fed, especially those who teeter on the edge of food insecurity.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:04 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
There is one very simple solution to increase consumption of healthy food - serve the veggies first, by themselves, in the cafeteria lineup.
posted by clawsoon at 7:47 AM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 7:47 AM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
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