Perry seemed like a serious candidate to our nation’s political experts
September 14, 2015 1:27 PM Subscribe
How Bespectacled Doofus Rick Perry Fooled Every Dumb Pundit in America
So why is it that after Perry’s embarrassing 2012 campaign, and before his embarrassing 2016 campaign, it became hip, in the political press, to declare that Rick Perry was now a serious man with a legitimate shot at the presidency?
So why is it that after Perry’s embarrassing 2012 campaign, and before his embarrassing 2016 campaign, it became hip, in the political press, to declare that Rick Perry was now a serious man with a legitimate shot at the presidency?
Once the dust settles, I can see Trump extending a VP invite to those glasses.
posted by Iridic at 1:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Iridic at 1:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
Then I guess you haven't been listening to Perry call out Trump for his statements about hispanics. There's no way he's getting to be the VP.
posted by dilaudid at 1:34 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 1:34 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Does anyone else think Rick Perry's glasses are made of delicious licorice?
posted by The Whelk at 1:36 PM on September 14, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 1:36 PM on September 14, 2015 [13 favorites]
Even though I think both his ideology and policies are idiotic, I still don't think I'd call Rick Perry a doofus, like the author of that article. Sure, he didn't fund raise like Bush, and his actual sensitivity and history with 'The Border' doesn't play with the nutjobs as well as out and out bigotry of Trump... It isn't him that was the doofus... if anything... its that well... he's not either normal enough to be a Bush, or and not politically right enough to be a total xenophobe.
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:38 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:38 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you watched Rick Perry set himself on fire during the 2012 GOP debates, get arrested, and still thought he had any kind of shot, and some journalistic enterprise paid you money for your insight, you've found yourself a solid sucker as a boss. Keep riding that train.
posted by dry white toast at 1:39 PM on September 14, 2015 [35 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 1:39 PM on September 14, 2015 [35 favorites]
Does anyone else think Rick Perry's glasses are made of delicious licorice?
No, because there's no such thing as "delicious" licorice.
posted by The Tensor at 1:39 PM on September 14, 2015 [67 favorites]
No, because there's no such thing as "delicious" licorice.
posted by The Tensor at 1:39 PM on September 14, 2015 [67 favorites]
No, because there's no such thing as "delicious" licorice.
more rick perry eyeglass frames for me, then.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:41 PM on September 14, 2015 [68 favorites]
more rick perry eyeglass frames for me, then.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:41 PM on September 14, 2015 [68 favorites]
I'm paraphrasing someone whose name escapes me, but for me the perfect summing up of Rick Perry's candidacy has always been: "You only get once chance to convince voters that you can spell 'potato' correctly".
posted by Kattullus at 1:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 1:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [21 favorites]
Similarly, I read multiple pieces by marketing pundits late last year that called 2015 "THE YEAR OF GOOGLE+". You say a dumb thing to get pageviews, circulation numbers, ratings, iTunes reviews, whatev. That's what being a pundit is. That's all that being a pundit is.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm paraphrasing someone whose name escapes me, but for me the perfect summing up of Rick Perry's candidacy has always been: "You only get once chance to convince voters that you can spell 'potato' correctly".
but the guy who couldn't spell potato correctly became vice president of the united states
posted by murphy slaw at 1:49 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
but the guy who couldn't spell potato correctly became vice president of the united states
posted by murphy slaw at 1:49 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Dan Quayle already successfully ran the 'Can't Spell potato' campaign.
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:49 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:49 PM on September 14, 2015
So why is it that after Perry’s embarrassing 2012 campaign, and before his embarrassing 2016 campaign, it became hip, in the political press, to declare that Rick Perry was now a serious man with a legitimate shot at the presidency?
Well, maybe in the conservative political press; I'd certainly count Jennifer Rubin and David Frum in that group, and even the less-obviously-partisan sources that Gawker lists are written by journalists that seem to specialize in the GOP. These people wouldn't get access if they called the candidates that they were covering fucking idiots, all obvious evidence to the contrary.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, maybe in the conservative political press; I'd certainly count Jennifer Rubin and David Frum in that group, and even the less-obviously-partisan sources that Gawker lists are written by journalists that seem to specialize in the GOP. These people wouldn't get access if they called the candidates that they were covering fucking idiots, all obvious evidence to the contrary.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Eh, it shows what I know about politics that I gave Perry a better shot than Trump.
posted by Mooski at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by Mooski at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2015
So why is it that after Perry’s embarrassing 2012 campaign, and before his embarrassing 2016 campaign, it became hip, in the political press, to declare that Rick Perry was now a serious man with a legitimate shot at the presidency?
Because the political press is practically useless to voters for communicating useful or valid information, while being extremely useful to media companies which are part of a massive power structure that benefits from many different kinds of propaganda?
posted by clockzero at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2015 [34 favorites]
Because the political press is practically useless to voters for communicating useful or valid information, while being extremely useful to media companies which are part of a massive power structure that benefits from many different kinds of propaganda?
posted by clockzero at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2015 [34 favorites]
Some of y'all have your potatoe timeline messed up.
posted by ghharr at 1:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by ghharr at 1:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [20 favorites]
Eh, it shows what I know about politics that I gave Perry a better shot than Trump.
I was at a family gathering this weekend. A pretty solidly blue-collar group. Mostly construction trades. Trump seemed to be really popular with the crowd. Even the 20-somethings were expressing excitement about the Donald as President. It was scary.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:53 PM on September 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
I was at a family gathering this weekend. A pretty solidly blue-collar group. Mostly construction trades. Trump seemed to be really popular with the crowd. Even the 20-somethings were expressing excitement about the Donald as President. It was scary.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:53 PM on September 14, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm still a bit shocked that Trump is actually running. I figured he'd just keep teasing the idea of running, stringing along the rubes who support him just to stay in the spotlight. Sort of like Palin.
I guess not.
posted by brundlefly at 1:55 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I guess not.
posted by brundlefly at 1:55 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
"If Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that." - Rick Perry, Texas Nationalist Movement rally, 2009.
Questions: a)Why would anyone who said something like this want to be president? and b) Why would anyone want to vote for someone who believes secession is a viable strategy?
posted by tommasz at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Questions: a)Why would anyone who said something like this want to be president? and b) Why would anyone want to vote for someone who believes secession is a viable strategy?
posted by tommasz at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, at least we dodged the horror of another former-Texas governor as president.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:58 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:58 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Some people are just too patriotic for America and have to ditch it entirely.
posted by brundlefly at 2:02 PM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 2:02 PM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
So what happens to Perry's superPACs' money now? They had started operating his Iowa campaign (without "coordinating" with the candidate, of course), which would have been precedent-setting, in a bad way. It did seem for a few weeks like they were serious about it, and his dropping out now makes me wonder if there's been some development behind the scenes with his indictment.
He is still under indictment, remember?
posted by scatter gather at 2:04 PM on September 14, 2015
He is still under indictment, remember?
posted by scatter gather at 2:04 PM on September 14, 2015
If you watched Rick Perry set himself on fire during the 2012 GOP debates, get arrested, and still thought he had any kind of shot
omg or that time he bit the head off a live bat at a campaign appearance???
posted by indubitable at 2:05 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
omg or that time he bit the head off a live bat at a campaign appearance???
posted by indubitable at 2:05 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Who was taking Perry seriously? He got the pro-forma respect that a 14-year-undefeated governor of Texas with a couple of donors should get -- but I didn't read anything this year that treated him as a serious contender, any more than (say) George Pataki has gotten that treatment. Frankly, people with even lower poll standings (Jim Gilmore and Bobby Jindal) have gotten more serious attention because of their potential for the VP slot.
posted by MattD at 2:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by MattD at 2:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
It isn't him that was the doofus...
Dude, he was the doofus way back when he was Lieutenant Governor under Bush, just before Bush started his presidential campaign. He was the doofus under George W. Bush. Bush went on to become a bigger and more dangerous doofus, certainly, but not until he became president and had a national stage and did big doofusy things because Dick Cheney told him to.**
TLDR: Rick Perry looked like a doofus when standing next to George W. Bush, governor version, and that is about as doofus as you can get.
** I am in no way defending GWB or his actions during any stage of his life, nor am I saying he's not a doofus.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [22 favorites]
Dude, he was the doofus way back when he was Lieutenant Governor under Bush, just before Bush started his presidential campaign. He was the doofus under George W. Bush. Bush went on to become a bigger and more dangerous doofus, certainly, but not until he became president and had a national stage and did big doofusy things because Dick Cheney told him to.**
TLDR: Rick Perry looked like a doofus when standing next to George W. Bush, governor version, and that is about as doofus as you can get.
** I am in no way defending GWB or his actions during any stage of his life, nor am I saying he's not a doofus.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [22 favorites]
Rick Perry in glasses is like Johnny Knoxville in glasses. A nice try, but they don't make me forget who's behind them.
posted by rocket88 at 2:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 2:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's sad, but glasses really do make people think you're smarter.
posted by Edgewise at 2:15 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Edgewise at 2:15 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Even though I think both his ideology and policies are idiotic, I still don't think I'd call Rick Perry a doofus, like the author of that article.
As a reminder, Rick Perry is the guy who began his political career by gathering advisors and fellow lawmakers at his family ranch, the name of which contains a well-known racial slur.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:18 PM on September 14, 2015 [16 favorites]
As a reminder, Rick Perry is the guy who began his political career by gathering advisors and fellow lawmakers at his family ranch, the name of which contains a well-known racial slur.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:18 PM on September 14, 2015 [16 favorites]
What clockzero said, definitely. That's not just plainly obvious at this point?
posted by LooseFilter at 2:18 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by LooseFilter at 2:18 PM on September 14, 2015
Bush went on to become a bigger and more dangerous doofus
Bush's major secret is that he really wasn't such a doofus. He just appeared as a doofus, because that's a persona his voting constituency found appealing. He is by no means the only one to do this, of course. Look at what a chicken fried shitkicker Rhodes scholar Clinton appeared to be when he was running against GWB's father. The difference is that Perry's doofusness is not a facade.
posted by slkinsey at 2:32 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Bush's major secret is that he really wasn't such a doofus. He just appeared as a doofus, because that's a persona his voting constituency found appealing. He is by no means the only one to do this, of course. Look at what a chicken fried shitkicker Rhodes scholar Clinton appeared to be when he was running against GWB's father. The difference is that Perry's doofusness is not a facade.
posted by slkinsey at 2:32 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Iridic: “Once the dust settles, I can see Trump extending a VP invite to those glasses.”
dilaudid: “Then I guess you haven't been listening to Perry call out Trump for his statements about hispanics. There's no way he's getting to be the VP.”
I think he really just meant the glasses. And – eh, I could see it happening.
posted by koeselitz at 2:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
dilaudid: “Then I guess you haven't been listening to Perry call out Trump for his statements about hispanics. There's no way he's getting to be the VP.”
I think he really just meant the glasses. And – eh, I could see it happening.
posted by koeselitz at 2:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
He hired an image rehabilitator who told him to put on glasses and that they'd astroturf him into a serious candidate -- you know, the one whose stock price shot up in the last six months.
posted by jamjam at 2:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jamjam at 2:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Even though I think both his ideology and policies are idiotic, I still don't think I'd call Rick Perry a doofus...
I have followed the fascinating circus that is Texas politics since I lived there in the early 90s and I would feel very comfortable calling Perry a doofus. Lots of other names as well, some more vitriolic, some funnier ("The Coiffure" - Molly Ivins) but "doofus" definitely suits him.
posted by louche mustachio at 2:34 PM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
I have followed the fascinating circus that is Texas politics since I lived there in the early 90s and I would feel very comfortable calling Perry a doofus. Lots of other names as well, some more vitriolic, some funnier ("The Coiffure" - Molly Ivins) but "doofus" definitely suits him.
posted by louche mustachio at 2:34 PM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm hoping a post like this can be written about Scott Walker some day.
posted by drezdn at 2:35 PM on September 14, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 2:35 PM on September 14, 2015 [18 favorites]
He's certainly no Doof Warrior.
posted by Pendragon at 2:37 PM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 2:37 PM on September 14, 2015 [9 favorites]
The ways things are going, drezdn, you'll gonna get that wish pretty soon. The latest poll has Walker at 2%. Trump, along with Walker's (somewhat surprising) total lack of campaigning skills seem to have absolutely killed his chances.
posted by Frayed Knot at 2:51 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Frayed Knot at 2:51 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Some of y'all have your potatoe timeline messed up.
Right. Quayle never won another election after The Potatoe Incident.
posted by straight at 2:51 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Right. Quayle never won another election after The Potatoe Incident.
posted by straight at 2:51 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
>> I'm hoping a post like this can be written about Scott Walker some day.
> The ways things are going, drezdn, you'll gonna get that wish pretty soon. The latest poll has Walker at 2%.
That day can't come soon enough. Every time I see that smug self-satisfied smirk and remember what he's done to the University of Wisconsin ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
> The ways things are going, drezdn, you'll gonna get that wish pretty soon. The latest poll has Walker at 2%.
That day can't come soon enough. Every time I see that smug self-satisfied smirk and remember what he's done to the University of Wisconsin ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Dude, he was the doofus way back when he was Lieutenant Governor under Bush, just before Bush started his presidential campaign. He was the doofus under George W. Bush.
Lieutenant Governor is actually the most powerful position in Texas politics, with Governor in fourth place, behind the Railroad Commissioner (who gets the power because he is in charge of... oil!) so arguably he was the doofus over George W. Bush.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Lieutenant Governor is actually the most powerful position in Texas politics, with Governor in fourth place, behind the Railroad Commissioner (who gets the power because he is in charge of... oil!) so arguably he was the doofus over George W. Bush.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:59 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Whelk: "Does anyone else think Rick Perry's glasses are made of delicious licorice?"
There is nothing delicious about Perry.
posted by Splunge at 3:08 PM on September 14, 2015
There is nothing delicious about Perry.
posted by Splunge at 3:08 PM on September 14, 2015
I'm hoping a post like this can be written about Scott Walker some day.
For whatever reason, he's maybe the one guy I feel would actually be dangerous in office: He's a pure political creature who isn't particularly talented at politics, but through favorable timing and environment found himself rising to the top of the food chain.
He's a carp.
If a national stage plays out the way it should, he'll get exposed for what he is and prove dim and bloated, incapable of keeping up. My fear, which I can't get rid of like it's zebra mussels, is that this Trump thing blows up messy ... and then something hits Hillary hard enough that the middle swings away ...
posted by pokermonk at 3:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
For whatever reason, he's maybe the one guy I feel would actually be dangerous in office: He's a pure political creature who isn't particularly talented at politics, but through favorable timing and environment found himself rising to the top of the food chain.
He's a carp.
If a national stage plays out the way it should, he'll get exposed for what he is and prove dim and bloated, incapable of keeping up. My fear, which I can't get rid of like it's zebra mussels, is that this Trump thing blows up messy ... and then something hits Hillary hard enough that the middle swings away ...
posted by pokermonk at 3:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Bush's major secret is that he really wasn't such a doofus.
Yet he started two land wars in Asia, which has worked out well for precisely nobody since Genghis Khan. Is Perry a doofus? Yes, but no more so than every other Republican contender. I would be surprised by Trump's continued popularity even as he flies in the face of what passes for conservative logic, but nothing surprises any more. They all have fewer good ideas than McCain in 2008. They've been selling failed ideas for decades. The latest great idea is to saber-rattle like we could credibly invade Iran.
If your friend kept trying the same things that didn't work over and over again, you might call him insane. Or at least try to get them to consider another approach. The electorate shows no interest in either calling candidates out on shenanigans or forcing them to try new approaches. We'll have doofuses all around until we collectively get smarter. Not that the Democrats are great, but as a group they tend to maintain at least a passing interest in not being a doofus. Even if they wear the façade willingly.
posted by Strudel at 3:24 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yet he started two land wars in Asia, which has worked out well for precisely nobody since Genghis Khan. Is Perry a doofus? Yes, but no more so than every other Republican contender. I would be surprised by Trump's continued popularity even as he flies in the face of what passes for conservative logic, but nothing surprises any more. They all have fewer good ideas than McCain in 2008. They've been selling failed ideas for decades. The latest great idea is to saber-rattle like we could credibly invade Iran.
If your friend kept trying the same things that didn't work over and over again, you might call him insane. Or at least try to get them to consider another approach. The electorate shows no interest in either calling candidates out on shenanigans or forcing them to try new approaches. We'll have doofuses all around until we collectively get smarter. Not that the Democrats are great, but as a group they tend to maintain at least a passing interest in not being a doofus. Even if they wear the façade willingly.
posted by Strudel at 3:24 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
I had a friend in high school who's father went to high school with Dan Quayle. His father, who was an all-around decent man, maintained that Quayle was the smartest guy he ever met and really bristled at the idea that he was a dummy. I still haven't figured out how to process that information.
posted by peeedro at 3:27 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 3:27 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
A raisin wearing licorice glasses. It's almost endearing.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:30 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by Existential Dread at 3:30 PM on September 14, 2015
Walker's no carp, he's a gar.
posted by coldhotel at 3:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by coldhotel at 3:33 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
How hard can it be? Potoooooooo
posted by Lemurrhea at 3:40 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 3:40 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
My mother, the special education teacher, pegged Quayle early in as being dyslexic. Which makes a horrible kind of sense, really.
posted by happyroach at 3:41 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 3:41 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
The current odds on who will be the Republican candidate.
posted by Wordshore at 3:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Wordshore at 3:47 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Boy, I would have thought an article entitled "How Bespectacled Doofus Rick Perry Fooled Every Dumb Pundit in America," and that in it's second paragraph asks "So why is it that after Perry’s embarrassing 2012 campaign, and before his embarrassing 2016 campaign, it became hip, in the political press, to declare that Rick Perry was now a serious man with a legitimate shot at the presidency?" would somewhere in the article address that question. And I would be wrong.
posted by rtimmel at 3:48 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by rtimmel at 3:48 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is the sort of thing, or system, that has me now avoiding cable news. The elections, still over a year away, get pundits and polls telling us daily who is up and who down for the day or week...the result is of course meaningless till election time, but in taking so long for this marathon of candidates, only those with huge money support can stay in the long running game, and that increasingly means that the very wealthy will continue to make their influence heard. In the meantime, the cable outlets, ignoring largely what is taking place in the world, continue to fill in time (helpful for advertisers). The simple fact is that the polls as this early date are really meaningless. Iowa and New Hampshire, so omnipresent these days, are not exactly filled with Latinos and African Americans.
posted by Postroad at 3:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Postroad at 3:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
There is nothing delicious about Perry.
Not even his tears?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not even his tears?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, he didn't come into your kitchen and piss in a cup ( as far as we know) but I guess that might be more of a senator thing.
posted by clvrmnky at 3:55 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by clvrmnky at 3:55 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Lieutenant Governor is actually the most powerful position in Texas politics, with Governor in fourth place, behind the Railroad Commissioner (who gets the power because he is in charge of... oil!) so arguably he was the doofus over George W. Bush.
Eh, I would argue that the preposition is irrelevant when calculating doofitude.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:01 PM on September 14, 2015
Eh, I would argue that the preposition is irrelevant when calculating doofitude.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:01 PM on September 14, 2015
I'm hoping a post like this can be written about Scott Walker some day.
Perry is a doofus, but at least he wasn't a well-funded doofus, and you can't run a campaign without cash. I'm more concerned about who the Kochs put their money behind, next, as the weaker candidates are weeded out.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:06 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Perry is a doofus, but at least he wasn't a well-funded doofus, and you can't run a campaign without cash. I'm more concerned about who the Kochs put their money behind, next, as the weaker candidates are weeded out.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:06 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
It is really hard to get a pundit to not take a candidate seriously when their channel's advertising revenue for two years depending on them doing so.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:08 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:08 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Rick perry is the most incompetent, dangerously useless person in the history of U.S. politics. The worst. Ever. Full stop. Maybe Clayton Williams is a smidge worse of a human being but he never held any elected power and sway. I feel sorry for Ann Richards and Molly Ivins for having to suffer Rick Perry's absolute indolence all those years without getting to feel the sweet payoff of his indictment.
Damn that was a sweet ass day. Felt good I did, the day he was indicted.
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:25 PM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Damn that was a sweet ass day. Felt good I did, the day he was indicted.
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:25 PM on September 14, 2015 [8 favorites]
Postroad: but the pundits often don't even base judgments on polls. They think they have some magical sort of access to what Americans are thinking, which is why you get the farces that are Washington Week, the Sunday morning shows, or the Applebee's salad bar.
One wonderful thing about the rise of the Internet is that you have access to facts, rather than having to listen to these bozos. You can check the polls. You can look at policy and keep up on economics (Krugman is a national treasure for both of these purposes).
posted by persona au gratin at 4:26 PM on September 14, 2015
One wonderful thing about the rise of the Internet is that you have access to facts, rather than having to listen to these bozos. You can check the polls. You can look at policy and keep up on economics (Krugman is a national treasure for both of these purposes).
posted by persona au gratin at 4:26 PM on September 14, 2015
Lieutenant Governor is actually the most powerful position in Texas politics...
Arguably. It certainly was when Bob Bullock was in that position.
posted by louche mustachio at 4:26 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Arguably. It certainly was when Bob Bullock was in that position.
posted by louche mustachio at 4:26 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I still don't think I'd call Rick Perry a doofus...
More of a "doopsus," amirite?
I'm more concerned about who the Kochs put their money behind, next, as the weaker candidates are weeded out.
This is the interesting thing about Trump polling as well as he has. Trump is his own millionaire backer. The big money donors are holding off declaring support for a specific candidate until this Trump thing plays out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:27 PM on September 14, 2015
More of a "doopsus," amirite?
I'm more concerned about who the Kochs put their money behind, next, as the weaker candidates are weeded out.
This is the interesting thing about Trump polling as well as he has. Trump is his own millionaire backer. The big money donors are holding off declaring support for a specific candidate until this Trump thing plays out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:27 PM on September 14, 2015
I have ties to UW and loathe Walker. I've followed his attacks on labor and UW. He's really dumb. And I've had faith the American people would see that. I continue to have that faith.
posted by persona au gratin at 4:29 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 4:29 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Lieutenant Governor is actually the most powerful position in Texas politics, with Governor in fourth place, behind the Railroad Commissioner (who gets the power because he is in charge of... oil!) so arguably he was the doofus over George W. Bush.
hey, don't leave us hanging, Rick, who's the third one?
posted by indubitable at 4:30 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
hey, don't leave us hanging, Rick, who's the third one?
posted by indubitable at 4:30 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
So why is it that after Perry’s embarrassing 2012 campaign, and before his embarrassing 2016 campaign, it became hip, in the political press, to declare that Rick Perry was now a serious man with a legitimate shot at the presidency?
Because the political press is practically useless to voters for communicating useful or valid information, while being extremely useful to media companies which are part of a massive power structure that benefits from many different kinds of propaganda?
Nobody makes people vote for these idiots. They do it of their own free will.
posted by Ironmouth at 4:34 PM on September 14, 2015
Because the political press is practically useless to voters for communicating useful or valid information, while being extremely useful to media companies which are part of a massive power structure that benefits from many different kinds of propaganda?
Nobody makes people vote for these idiots. They do it of their own free will.
posted by Ironmouth at 4:34 PM on September 14, 2015
More of a "doopsus," amirite?
Boy, that moment. It really encapsulated the sorry state of the GOP: "I want to eliminate three Federal agencies... but I don't know what they are!" Either he truly is a doofus for forgetting one of the three during that debate, or he was appealing to the basest of his base who wouldn't really care which three federal agencies, judging that any three would be a good start.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:49 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Boy, that moment. It really encapsulated the sorry state of the GOP: "I want to eliminate three Federal agencies... but I don't know what they are!" Either he truly is a doofus for forgetting one of the three during that debate, or he was appealing to the basest of his base who wouldn't really care which three federal agencies, judging that any three would be a good start.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:49 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Bush's major secret is that he really wasn't such a doofus. He just appeared as a doofus, because that's a persona his voting constituency found appealing. He is by no means the only one to do this, of course. Look at what a chicken fried shitkicker Rhodes scholar Clinton appeared to be when he was running against GWB's father. The difference is that Perry's doofusness is not a facade.
Do you have to actually be stupid to be a doofus? I believe the Bushes have sharper minds than they let on but I think looking and sounding like a doofus comes quite naturally to them.
posted by atoxyl at 4:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do you have to actually be stupid to be a doofus? I believe the Bushes have sharper minds than they let on but I think looking and sounding like a doofus comes quite naturally to them.
posted by atoxyl at 4:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Rick perry is the most incompetent, dangerously useless person in the history of U.S. politics.
You're from Texas, right?
posted by el io at 4:52 PM on September 14, 2015
You're from Texas, right?
posted by el io at 4:52 PM on September 14, 2015
Oh man:
Laws, the only redoubt of secularism, will not suffice. - Rick Perry on the Sandy Hook massacre
posted by atoxyl at 4:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Laws, the only redoubt of secularism, will not suffice. - Rick Perry on the Sandy Hook massacre
posted by atoxyl at 4:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean
Laws, the only redoubt of secularism.
posted by atoxyl at 5:00 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Laws, the only redoubt of secularism.
posted by atoxyl at 5:00 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Nobody makes people vote for these idiots. They do it of their own free will.
Well, except perhaps for wives in Evangelical households in counties which have eliminated polling places in favor of mail-in ballots; I have a feeling the leadership in all things such women must look to their husbands for includes filling out ballots, and that many husbands take that 'responsibility' seriously.
posted by jamjam at 5:04 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, except perhaps for wives in Evangelical households in counties which have eliminated polling places in favor of mail-in ballots; I have a feeling the leadership in all things such women must look to their husbands for includes filling out ballots, and that many husbands take that 'responsibility' seriously.
posted by jamjam at 5:04 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Perry is not a doofus. He is a terrible amoral political animal who will cozy up to apparently anyone with a buck or a vote. Bush had a terrible set of faults, but, when he was Governor, he kept Perry more or less under control. His presidential campaign was thus a disaster for the US and Texas....
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Suppose you were dumb, and suppose you were a pundit. But I repeat myself…
posted by TedW at 5:08 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by TedW at 5:08 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anybody remember Katie Couric’s interview with Sarah Palin, just after she received McCain’s nomination, from fall of ’07?
Back then, almost nobody outside of Alaska had ever heard of then-Governor Palin, and it fell to Katie Couric to introduce her to the American public via a one-on-one interview.
Couric wore glasses, for the occasion…this struck me as odd, as I had never seen her wear glasses before, and I’m not sure if I have seen her wear them, since.
I wondered: Is Katie wearing glasses, because she is afraid that she will look like The Dumb One, if she is interviewing another attractive woman, who IS wearing glasses?
I was wondering about this, as I watched the interview unfold…about halfway through, as Palin’s incoherent, rambling style became apparent, Katie took off her glasses…as if she realized: “OK…I’m definitely not the The Dumb One, here. I can ditch the glasses..."
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [28 favorites]
Back then, almost nobody outside of Alaska had ever heard of then-Governor Palin, and it fell to Katie Couric to introduce her to the American public via a one-on-one interview.
Couric wore glasses, for the occasion…this struck me as odd, as I had never seen her wear glasses before, and I’m not sure if I have seen her wear them, since.
I wondered: Is Katie wearing glasses, because she is afraid that she will look like The Dumb One, if she is interviewing another attractive woman, who IS wearing glasses?
I was wondering about this, as I watched the interview unfold…about halfway through, as Palin’s incoherent, rambling style became apparent, Katie took off her glasses…as if she realized: “OK…I’m definitely not the The Dumb One, here. I can ditch the glasses..."
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [28 favorites]
but the pundits often don't even base judgments on polls.
Polls are meaningless at this point in the campaign. At this point in the last election, Rick Perry was ahead. In 2008, Clinton had 44%, while Obama had only 23%. In 2004, Howard Dean was the front runner. At this point, name recognition is paramount. But in such a high level campaign, name recognition isn't sufficient. Every candidate will have name recognition by the end of it.
Personally, I'm conflicted about Perry. I don't think he's a great politician. But as a Texas Democrat, I'm not likely to. But I read his speech at the National Press Office on race, and it's far more reflective of a Republican party I'd like to lose to. He's inherited GWB's dream of a more inclusive Republican party.
And I know that's going to get push back. But I believe the real failure in the Bush presidency is that he very clearly decided "I can't name more than three foreign leaders. But I don't need to. I've got my dad's old timers who can handle that." That decision, not his views on race/immigration, is what really transformed his presidency to pushing the Republican Party back to the Goldwater heyday.
Perry at least wants to give minorities lip service, and wants the most virulent racists in his party to shut up and vote for a watered down conservative party that will survive the demographic transformation in the US. And that's not a hell of a lot better than Trump.
posted by politikitty at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2015
Polls are meaningless at this point in the campaign. At this point in the last election, Rick Perry was ahead. In 2008, Clinton had 44%, while Obama had only 23%. In 2004, Howard Dean was the front runner. At this point, name recognition is paramount. But in such a high level campaign, name recognition isn't sufficient. Every candidate will have name recognition by the end of it.
Personally, I'm conflicted about Perry. I don't think he's a great politician. But as a Texas Democrat, I'm not likely to. But I read his speech at the National Press Office on race, and it's far more reflective of a Republican party I'd like to lose to. He's inherited GWB's dream of a more inclusive Republican party.
And I know that's going to get push back. But I believe the real failure in the Bush presidency is that he very clearly decided "I can't name more than three foreign leaders. But I don't need to. I've got my dad's old timers who can handle that." That decision, not his views on race/immigration, is what really transformed his presidency to pushing the Republican Party back to the Goldwater heyday.
Perry at least wants to give minorities lip service, and wants the most virulent racists in his party to shut up and vote for a watered down conservative party that will survive the demographic transformation in the US. And that's not a hell of a lot better than Trump.
posted by politikitty at 5:11 PM on September 14, 2015
Perry is the epitome of crony capitalism.
You think Clinton or Bush or Obama are corporatist? They have nothing on Perry.
posted by vuron at 5:12 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
You think Clinton or Bush or Obama are corporatist? They have nothing on Perry.
posted by vuron at 5:12 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
All of us here in Texas knew Governor Goodhair was dumber than a sack full of doorknobs but we wanted to see just how long it would take the rest of you to figure it out...
posted by jim in austin at 5:37 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 5:37 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
As a reminder, Rick Perry is the guy who began his political career by gathering advisors and fellow lawmakers at his family ranch, the name of which contains a well-known racial slur.
Wow, I had no idea. Holy shit.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2015
Wow, I had no idea. Holy shit.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2015
Rick perry is the most incompetent, dangerously useless person in the history of U.S. politics.
You're from Texas, right?
So I have a friend who is from Texas, and we were both overseas at the same time, right before the 2012 election primaries. She is not only from Texas and a Republican, but had worked in Rick Perry's office as one of his events coordinators.
So we were talking about absentee voting in the upcoming primaries, and I joked, "I guess you don't have to worry about who to vote for, huh!" and she responded, "Yeeeeeeeah, I don't know if I would vote for Rick Perry." I thought she was joking back, so I responded, "Uhhh, I think you HAVE to vote for someone if you worked for them, haha."
And she paused for a bit and then said, "Yeah, I mean, I loved working in the governor's office, and Rick Perry is a really nice and friendly guy, but like . . . sometimes he just . . . opens his mouth and says stuff. And, like, he doesn't believe in basic stuff like . . . science. Like, any of science. I wouldn't vote for him."
I have never been able to take Rick Perry seriously since that conversation - a Texan Republican who knew Rick Perry personally and found him to be a decent guy WOULD NEVER CONSIDER VOTING FOR HIM.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2015 [33 favorites]
You're from Texas, right?
So I have a friend who is from Texas, and we were both overseas at the same time, right before the 2012 election primaries. She is not only from Texas and a Republican, but had worked in Rick Perry's office as one of his events coordinators.
So we were talking about absentee voting in the upcoming primaries, and I joked, "I guess you don't have to worry about who to vote for, huh!" and she responded, "Yeeeeeeeah, I don't know if I would vote for Rick Perry." I thought she was joking back, so I responded, "Uhhh, I think you HAVE to vote for someone if you worked for them, haha."
And she paused for a bit and then said, "Yeah, I mean, I loved working in the governor's office, and Rick Perry is a really nice and friendly guy, but like . . . sometimes he just . . . opens his mouth and says stuff. And, like, he doesn't believe in basic stuff like . . . science. Like, any of science. I wouldn't vote for him."
I have never been able to take Rick Perry seriously since that conversation - a Texan Republican who knew Rick Perry personally and found him to be a decent guy WOULD NEVER CONSIDER VOTING FOR HIM.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:39 PM on September 14, 2015 [33 favorites]
“There's Actually Someone Mourning Rick Perry's Campaign,” Charles P. Pierce, Esquire Politics Blog, 14 September 2015
The Washington Post's Jennifer Rubin pines for Governor Goodhair.posted by ob1quixote at 5:49 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
And, like, he doesn't believe in basic stuff like . . . science. Like, any of science.
Really, if "believes in any of science" is in your top 10 priorities as a voter...why are you even a Republican? It's not like Jeb! or Rubio or Carson "believes in any of science" either, much less Cruz or Paul or Huck.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Really, if "believes in any of science" is in your top 10 priorities as a voter...why are you even a Republican? It's not like Jeb! or Rubio or Carson "believes in any of science" either, much less Cruz or Paul or Huck.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:52 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Boy, I would have thought an article entitled "How Bespectacled Doofus Rick Perry Fooled Every Dumb Pundit in America," and that in it's second paragraph asks "So why is it that after Perry’s embarrassing 2012 campaign, and before his embarrassing 2016 campaign, it became hip, in the political press, to declare that Rick Perry was now a serious man with a legitimate shot at the presidency?" would somewhere in the article address that question. And I would be wrong.
Last line of the piece, my friend.
posted by schoolgirl report at 6:12 PM on September 14, 2015
Last line of the piece, my friend.
posted by schoolgirl report at 6:12 PM on September 14, 2015
I was born and raised in Texas by tough-as-nails-and-blue-blooded democrat women who never took any shit from any man without them regretting it forever.
Rick perry is a stain.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:14 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Rick perry is a stain.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:14 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think she feels there's a line to be drawn between people who don't understand climate change science and therefore take a skeptical and/or questioning attitude towards whether climate change is caused by humans, the natural cycles of the earth, can be slowed, can be stopped, etc. . . . and those people who think that the entire corpora of research is a hoax.
I mean, I myself think both groups of people are wrong, but she seems to be more frustrated at the lack of any attempt to realistically engage with the data, especially in the midst of a killer drought.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:17 PM on September 14, 2015
I mean, I myself think both groups of people are wrong, but she seems to be more frustrated at the lack of any attempt to realistically engage with the data, especially in the midst of a killer drought.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:17 PM on September 14, 2015
Didn't Perry drop out during the 2012 campaign only to jump back in a few days later? And, then, drop out again?
posted by Thorzdad at 6:33 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by Thorzdad at 6:33 PM on September 14, 2015
ob1quixote: "The Washington Post's Jennifer Rubin pines for Governor Goodhair."
Rubin is one of the stupidest pundits out there. Like, Bill Kristol-level stupid.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:12 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Rubin is one of the stupidest pundits out there. Like, Bill Kristol-level stupid.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:12 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've said it before, I've said it again—Kristol missed his calling by not going into financial punditry. You would make all the money by repeatedly investing in the opposite of what he said, as he has never been right about anything. Networks continue to have him on and let him talk, instead of pelting him with rotten fruit. I will never understand.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:25 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:25 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
peeedro: I had a friend in high school who's father went to high school with Dan Quayle. His father, who was an all-around decent man, maintained that Quayle was the smartest guy he ever met and really bristled at the idea that he was a dummy. I still haven't figured out how to process that information.
Your friend's father knew Dan Quayle. You know "Dan Quayle", the soundbite-sized image promoted by Dan Quayle and the media as (1) his attempt to make GHWB look presidential in comparison, which was made more difficult by the fact that GHWB played this role for Reagan for the 8 previous years, and (2) the media's desire to present politics as entertainment, easily consumed by the American TV watcher.
Dan Quayle isn't as stupid as "Dan Quayle"; no one in Washington politics is. (No, not even him/her. They're playing a role.)
Making the US forget about Bush Sr's role as the Court Jester under the Wise and Totally Not In Dementia President Reagan was no easy task. Poor man had to put on pancake and sweat his "stupid" act under the blazing lights every damn day.
I'm serious. People who know Dan Quayle personally often speak of how intelligent he is. They don't do that for GWBush (who still isn't as dumb as Quayle pretended to be). It was a fucking sideshow.
And the US bought it, because - hey! Quayle jokes, amirite?
posted by IAmBroom at 9:25 PM on September 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
Your friend's father knew Dan Quayle. You know "Dan Quayle", the soundbite-sized image promoted by Dan Quayle and the media as (1) his attempt to make GHWB look presidential in comparison, which was made more difficult by the fact that GHWB played this role for Reagan for the 8 previous years, and (2) the media's desire to present politics as entertainment, easily consumed by the American TV watcher.
Dan Quayle isn't as stupid as "Dan Quayle"; no one in Washington politics is. (No, not even him/her. They're playing a role.)
Making the US forget about Bush Sr's role as the Court Jester under the Wise and Totally Not In Dementia President Reagan was no easy task. Poor man had to put on pancake and sweat his "stupid" act under the blazing lights every damn day.
I'm serious. People who know Dan Quayle personally often speak of how intelligent he is. They don't do that for GWBush (who still isn't as dumb as Quayle pretended to be). It was a fucking sideshow.
And the US bought it, because - hey! Quayle jokes, amirite?
posted by IAmBroom at 9:25 PM on September 14, 2015 [7 favorites]
I've said it before, I've said it again—Kristol missed his calling by not going into financial punditry. You would make all the money by repeatedly investing in the opposite of what he said, as he has never been right about anything.
He's in a version of the same thing, maybe even a level above. He's made his benefactors billions promoting military interventionism and the ever-expanding and perpetual War on Terror (that requires more and more spending, naturally). And he's been incredibly successful in convincing 49-51% of the population that Those Brown People are COMING TO KILL YOU.
The people that fund The Weekly Standard and Kristol's career on cable TV are the same people that own millions of shares of Raytheon, Lockheed and General Dynamics, each.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's in a version of the same thing, maybe even a level above. He's made his benefactors billions promoting military interventionism and the ever-expanding and perpetual War on Terror (that requires more and more spending, naturally). And he's been incredibly successful in convincing 49-51% of the population that Those Brown People are COMING TO KILL YOU.
The people that fund The Weekly Standard and Kristol's career on cable TV are the same people that own millions of shares of Raytheon, Lockheed and General Dynamics, each.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:35 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'll just drop in here a tear of mourning for a nation which has come to the point where it has to take any candidate of either party seriously.
posted by Twang at 9:39 PM on September 14, 2015
posted by Twang at 9:39 PM on September 14, 2015
So what I'm reading here is that if Donald Trump starts wearing glasses he'll definitely be president?
we're all doomed
posted by mmoncur at 10:14 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
we're all doomed
posted by mmoncur at 10:14 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
So he actually did know how to spell "potato"?
If memory serves, he was at a class doing spelling and one of the words the teacher had put on the blackboard was "potatoe."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:52 PM on September 14, 2015
If memory serves, he was at a class doing spelling and one of the words the teacher had put on the blackboard was "potatoe."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:52 PM on September 14, 2015
It was a little bit worse than that.
That rule about criticizing spelling mistakes seems ironclad. I wasn't even throwing shade at Quayle per se, but I still managed to misspell the word 'one'. One! That's three letters long!
posted by Kattullus at 12:27 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
That rule about criticizing spelling mistakes seems ironclad. I wasn't even throwing shade at Quayle per se, but I still managed to misspell the word 'one'. One! That's three letters long!
posted by Kattullus at 12:27 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Bush's major secret is that he really wasn't such a doofus. He just appeared as a doofus, because that's a persona his voting constituency found appealing.
A smart doofus pretender, by his stubborn incuriosity, was an actual doofus. And he'll never know it.
posted by zippy at 2:08 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
A smart doofus pretender, by his stubborn incuriosity, was an actual doofus. And he'll never know it.
posted by zippy at 2:08 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Dan Quayle isn't as stupid as "Dan Quayle"; no one in Washington politics is. (No, not even him/her. They're playing a role.)
So everyone in DC who seems stupid is actually much smarter than we're giving them credit for? That strains credibility. You can't tell me, for example, that Louie Gohmert (he of the threat to quit Congress if the Iran nuclear deal was passed, and the clock is still ticking on that likely-to-be-broken promise) is somehow concealing vast amounts of untapped intellect behind his "Louie Gohmert" role.
No, this notion is really a form of denial that more and more districts are voting in stupider and stupider people every election. That would make for far less cognitive dissonance than the idea that the people they're voting in are somehow intellectual giants disguised with dunce caps.
posted by blucevalo at 8:10 AM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
So everyone in DC who seems stupid is actually much smarter than we're giving them credit for? That strains credibility. You can't tell me, for example, that Louie Gohmert (he of the threat to quit Congress if the Iran nuclear deal was passed, and the clock is still ticking on that likely-to-be-broken promise) is somehow concealing vast amounts of untapped intellect behind his "Louie Gohmert" role.
No, this notion is really a form of denial that more and more districts are voting in stupider and stupider people every election. That would make for far less cognitive dissonance than the idea that the people they're voting in are somehow intellectual giants disguised with dunce caps.
posted by blucevalo at 8:10 AM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
So Obama truly believes that there are 57 states?
Gaffes are inevitable, and not particularly indicative of intelligence. They're indicative of the lengthening campaign, and ubiquitous media presence.
Furthermore, Candidates have to speak to the primary voters, and in most jurisdictions, don't have to worry about the general election.
That means the system is set up to encourage Republicans to sound like ridiculous wingnuts. The fact that Democrats also love being outraged by these antics only adds fuel to the fire.
A smart person will realize that the Republican ticket, especially the lower offices, requires a display that does not highlight their intelligence. George Wallace is a pretty comprehensive case study in being in reprehensible for the opportunity to be in office.
It's very difficult to spin what works in state-wide Texas election (a fairly closed election where the Democrat will always be a longshot) to the national campaign of President. Which is what causes these odd and inauthentic feeling reinventions every four years.
posted by politikitty at 10:35 AM on September 15, 2015
Gaffes are inevitable, and not particularly indicative of intelligence. They're indicative of the lengthening campaign, and ubiquitous media presence.
Furthermore, Candidates have to speak to the primary voters, and in most jurisdictions, don't have to worry about the general election.
That means the system is set up to encourage Republicans to sound like ridiculous wingnuts. The fact that Democrats also love being outraged by these antics only adds fuel to the fire.
A smart person will realize that the Republican ticket, especially the lower offices, requires a display that does not highlight their intelligence. George Wallace is a pretty comprehensive case study in being in reprehensible for the opportunity to be in office.
It's very difficult to spin what works in state-wide Texas election (a fairly closed election where the Democrat will always be a longshot) to the national campaign of President. Which is what causes these odd and inauthentic feeling reinventions every four years.
posted by politikitty at 10:35 AM on September 15, 2015
blucevalo, there are different types of intelligence, and the canniness of political operators can't be handwaved away by looking at their grades or factchecking the wild claims they make when they're playing to their bases. Back when Spy magazine was still a thing, they ran a feature on dumb politicians (with Dan Quayle occupying the hall of fame position), and Chuck Grassley was prominently featured. In fact, Grassley is an incredibly canny politician, and his career in Congress is several times the length of the existence of Spy, which wasn't collectively nearly as smart as it thought it was. (I used to be a fan, but gave up on it when, after Twin Peaks was cancelled, one of its writers felt compelled to snark that whoever thought that a TV series about a lady with a log would be a good idea? Of course, Twin Peaks was no more about the Log Lady than Breaking Bad was about Badger and Skinny Pete.) Whether or not Grassley is smarter than the proverbial fifth grader, in terms of factual knowledge, he can have that Senate seat until he dies or is obviously incapacitated.
Even Barack Obama knows this; I've read that his speeches--not just the general style, but the actual vocabulary--changed whether he was speaking on the North Side of Chicago, the South Side, or in downstate Illinois, when he was running for Senate.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:31 AM on September 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
Even Barack Obama knows this; I've read that his speeches--not just the general style, but the actual vocabulary--changed whether he was speaking on the North Side of Chicago, the South Side, or in downstate Illinois, when he was running for Senate.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:31 AM on September 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
So what I'm reading here is that if Donald Trump starts wearing glasses he'll definitely be president?
If Donald Trump starts wearing glasses he'll compulsively swirlie himself to death.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:10 PM on September 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
If Donald Trump starts wearing glasses he'll compulsively swirlie himself to death.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:10 PM on September 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
Halloween Jack, those are fair points. But stupid is as stupid does, and I have a hard time looking at the actions of someone like Gohmert and concluding that there is a canny, discerning mind there.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:22 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LooseFilter at 2:22 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
From Gohmert's Wikipedia entry: "A mid-decade redistricting made the 1st District significantly more conservative than its predecessor. [The city of] Tyler, which had long anchored the 4th District, was shifted to the 1st District. In the 2004 Republican primary, Gohmert defeated State Representative Wayne Christian of Center, Texas. He defeated Democratic incumbent 1st District Congressman Max Sandlin with 61 percent of the vote. Gohmert has never faced another contest even that close, and has been reelected five times." Aside from whatever fit of hubris prompted him to challenge John Boehner for leadership of the House GOP, he seems to be doing quite well.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:26 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:26 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
he seems to be doing quite well.
Politically, perhaps (though I think that takes ambition more than smarts); morally, however, he is anti-woman, rabidly pro-gun, xenophobic, racist, and generally crazy. His legislative goals are destructive and stupid. I have a hard time discerning a thoughtful and penetrating mind behind his actions as an actual legislator--the job he's elected to do--rather than as a politician.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:38 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Politically, perhaps (though I think that takes ambition more than smarts); morally, however, he is anti-woman, rabidly pro-gun, xenophobic, racist, and generally crazy. His legislative goals are destructive and stupid. I have a hard time discerning a thoughtful and penetrating mind behind his actions as an actual legislator--the job he's elected to do--rather than as a politician.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:38 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're conflating values and intelligence.
Legislation is dumb when it undermines the goals they hope to achieve. It's destructive when they undermine goals you hope to achieve.
posted by politikitty at 10:37 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Legislation is dumb when it undermines the goals they hope to achieve. It's destructive when they undermine goals you hope to achieve.
posted by politikitty at 10:37 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're conflating values and intelligence.
Fair enough, but that's intentional. I think values as a legislator are part of one's intelligence, because you are in a position to put your values into action for millions of people, in ways that may fundamentally affect their lives. That lever means that his values are put into action in ways that can be helpful (smart) or hurtful (stupid), because when millions of people are hurt by your actions you have made the collective world a worse place for all of us to be. That's stupid. But I concede this may only be a personal perspective.
Also:
It's destructive when they undermine goals you hope to achieve.
No, I think some legislation is objectively destructive. And also, he's dumb because some of his attempted legislation has undermined his own goals (e.g., overreach on abortion, etc.). Gohmert's dogmatic passions have certainly subverted the effectiveness of his work, many times.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:05 PM on September 16, 2015
Fair enough, but that's intentional. I think values as a legislator are part of one's intelligence, because you are in a position to put your values into action for millions of people, in ways that may fundamentally affect their lives. That lever means that his values are put into action in ways that can be helpful (smart) or hurtful (stupid), because when millions of people are hurt by your actions you have made the collective world a worse place for all of us to be. That's stupid. But I concede this may only be a personal perspective.
Also:
It's destructive when they undermine goals you hope to achieve.
No, I think some legislation is objectively destructive. And also, he's dumb because some of his attempted legislation has undermined his own goals (e.g., overreach on abortion, etc.). Gohmert's dogmatic passions have certainly subverted the effectiveness of his work, many times.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:05 PM on September 16, 2015
Except you're not really in a position to put your values into legislation. That requires widespread support that is much larger than you.
You're in a position to weigh your values with the values of your constituents and attempt to influence legislation when you can do the former without sacrificing the latter. That's a much more narrow mandate. Writing legislation and offering amendments can be an attempt to change law. But considering very little legislation becomes law, it's primarily a marketing tactic.
Legislators in swing districts are known to vote against the party, with the consent of the party, simply to be able to say they're not beholden to the party interests. Legislators in safe districts like Gohmert propose crazy legislation to head off primary challengers who worry they're too moderate.
I remember after Obergefell, Josh Barro tweeted that many Republican politicians he knows don't care about gay marriage. It's professionally beneficial to be tolerant because they have to work with anyone who walks through their door. They're more likely to get pork to bring home. But they also have to get the socially conservative vote. If you believe that a socially liberal candidate can't win, it's better to be that social conservative and be in power, than let a true believer take the spot.
posted by politikitty at 12:37 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're in a position to weigh your values with the values of your constituents and attempt to influence legislation when you can do the former without sacrificing the latter. That's a much more narrow mandate. Writing legislation and offering amendments can be an attempt to change law. But considering very little legislation becomes law, it's primarily a marketing tactic.
Legislators in swing districts are known to vote against the party, with the consent of the party, simply to be able to say they're not beholden to the party interests. Legislators in safe districts like Gohmert propose crazy legislation to head off primary challengers who worry they're too moderate.
I remember after Obergefell, Josh Barro tweeted that many Republican politicians he knows don't care about gay marriage. It's professionally beneficial to be tolerant because they have to work with anyone who walks through their door. They're more likely to get pork to bring home. But they also have to get the socially conservative vote. If you believe that a socially liberal candidate can't win, it's better to be that social conservative and be in power, than let a true believer take the spot.
posted by politikitty at 12:37 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Legislation is dumb when it undermines the goals they hope to achieve. It's destructive when they undermine goals you hope to achieve.
The thing is, their goals fly in the face of fact. Their goals rely on creating this weird myth of How The World Was and promising to keep it that way forever.
Our goals relay on recognizing that the world changes. This is in accordance with fact. Theirs are based on "no," and their policies are actively destructive. There is a difference.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:34 PM on September 16, 2015
The thing is, their goals fly in the face of fact. Their goals rely on creating this weird myth of How The World Was and promising to keep it that way forever.
Our goals relay on recognizing that the world changes. This is in accordance with fact. Theirs are based on "no," and their policies are actively destructive. There is a difference.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:34 PM on September 16, 2015
So what? That's a reason not to vote for them, not a reason to think they're dumb.
Their job is to get elected, which requires representing the half of America that might vote for them. Given there aren't enough votes catering to the left of the Democratic Party, that leaves catering to the right of the Democratic Party.
That is not a problem with the Republican party. That is a problem with the American people.
So you can't infer intelligence from the goals of the Republican party. You can decide they are amoral to evil for participating in such an organization. But that's kinda like saying Hilary Clinton is evil because she knowingly represented rapists and murderers to the best of her ability as part of her job.
While it takes a lot of savvy to negotiate the competing demands of your donors, constituents and party, the system does not reward outward displays of intelligence. That is often misread as elitism, or being out of touch with the everyman.
And it should be noticed that this has changed over the last 100 years. Parties have lost power as candidates have had to appeal directly to primary voters rather than party elites. This has created a candidate centered Congress, rather than the old rotation system of waiting for your turn. Incumbents propose more legislation as marketing, and the ratio of legislation proposed to passed has increased accordingly. Media presence has skyrocketed and become more partisan along with the percentage of time devoted to campaigning.
The system has changed to encourage politicians to appear less intelligent. It's institutional, not evidence of politicians actually becoming dumber.
posted by politikitty at 10:39 AM on September 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Their job is to get elected, which requires representing the half of America that might vote for them. Given there aren't enough votes catering to the left of the Democratic Party, that leaves catering to the right of the Democratic Party.
That is not a problem with the Republican party. That is a problem with the American people.
So you can't infer intelligence from the goals of the Republican party. You can decide they are amoral to evil for participating in such an organization. But that's kinda like saying Hilary Clinton is evil because she knowingly represented rapists and murderers to the best of her ability as part of her job.
While it takes a lot of savvy to negotiate the competing demands of your donors, constituents and party, the system does not reward outward displays of intelligence. That is often misread as elitism, or being out of touch with the everyman.
And it should be noticed that this has changed over the last 100 years. Parties have lost power as candidates have had to appeal directly to primary voters rather than party elites. This has created a candidate centered Congress, rather than the old rotation system of waiting for your turn. Incumbents propose more legislation as marketing, and the ratio of legislation proposed to passed has increased accordingly. Media presence has skyrocketed and become more partisan along with the percentage of time devoted to campaigning.
The system has changed to encourage politicians to appear less intelligent. It's institutional, not evidence of politicians actually becoming dumber.
posted by politikitty at 10:39 AM on September 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
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