What we've got here is a fairly large live oak....
September 16, 2015 1:50 AM Subscribe
TREE JOB FROM HELL! Massive 30-50 ton live oak fall balanced on a chimney removed with naught but slings and a bucket truck and chainsaws. (slyt, 30:23, not safe for home owners)
Oh, hey, a handy guide for Mr. Llama on 'why we're getting that oak twenty feet from our house removed'.
It's on a northern slope on top of its proximity to the house, so all of the branches and weight are on the side near the house, and the rainwater is slowly eroding the soil on the incline. We're also having a red maple removed that is being slowly disemboweled by an ant colony and a hemlock removed that is leaning aggressively toward our kid's bedroom, probably half due to the previous owners mounting an electrical outlet on it and half due to wooly adelgid, which will kill it anyway.
Getting trees removed is emotionally hard, though, and I can understand why people don't do it. You know there's going to be that absence in your landscape.
On the other hand, prying it off your house after it falls is also not a fun thing to do.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:39 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's on a northern slope on top of its proximity to the house, so all of the branches and weight are on the side near the house, and the rainwater is slowly eroding the soil on the incline. We're also having a red maple removed that is being slowly disemboweled by an ant colony and a hemlock removed that is leaning aggressively toward our kid's bedroom, probably half due to the previous owners mounting an electrical outlet on it and half due to wooly adelgid, which will kill it anyway.
Getting trees removed is emotionally hard, though, and I can understand why people don't do it. You know there's going to be that absence in your landscape.
On the other hand, prying it off your house after it falls is also not a fun thing to do.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:39 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Impressive job well done. I have about three oaks over my house, that big or bigger.. One sits one foot from my roof... this makes me a bit nervous.
posted by HuronBob at 3:46 AM on September 16, 2015
posted by HuronBob at 3:46 AM on September 16, 2015
Metafilter: A bucket truck is not a crane.
posted by 4ster at 4:27 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by 4ster at 4:27 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Cool video, very interesting!
posted by carter at 4:57 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by carter at 4:57 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
70 foot pin oak fell on my house in 2003. Came within about a foot of killing me as I was walking across my own living room and did over $30K in damage, but it could have been much worse. Alas having it removed wasn't an option because it was rooted in the power line right-of-way behind my house.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:02 AM on September 16, 2015
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:02 AM on September 16, 2015
Tree job from hell: So much can go wrong.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:05 AM on September 16, 2015
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:05 AM on September 16, 2015
So much can go wrong.
It looks like a ridiculously dangerous job. It amazes me how people risk their lives to save other people's property. Especially when I think that the chimney is fully insured and those guys with the chain saws aren't.
posted by three blind mice at 5:24 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
It looks like a ridiculously dangerous job. It amazes me how people risk their lives to save other people's property. Especially when I think that the chimney is fully insured and those guys with the chain saws aren't.
posted by three blind mice at 5:24 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Alas having it removed wasn't an option because it was rooted in the power line right-of-way behind my house.
In my experience, utility companies like to remove any tree they can, and aggressively prune the ones they can't remove. I'm surprised that they would have wanted to preserve a tree, but utilities can be super difficult to work with in any way.
I wonder if there was any damage to the chimney or structure other than the superficial cracking at the top that the video showed?
Especially when I think that the chimney is fully insured and those guys with the chain saws aren't.
As long as they are on payroll and legal (not working for cash under the table, and the company is fully legit), they are at least covered by worker's comp, which is better than nothing. (I don't know what happens if the workers are undocumented workers using a borrowed SSN, which is common around here.) But yes, tree work is dangerous, often low paid, and not particularly valued as a profession even though it is a significant aspect of safety, along roads especially.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:33 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
In my experience, utility companies like to remove any tree they can, and aggressively prune the ones they can't remove. I'm surprised that they would have wanted to preserve a tree, but utilities can be super difficult to work with in any way.
I wonder if there was any damage to the chimney or structure other than the superficial cracking at the top that the video showed?
Especially when I think that the chimney is fully insured and those guys with the chain saws aren't.
As long as they are on payroll and legal (not working for cash under the table, and the company is fully legit), they are at least covered by worker's comp, which is better than nothing. (I don't know what happens if the workers are undocumented workers using a borrowed SSN, which is common around here.) But yes, tree work is dangerous, often low paid, and not particularly valued as a profession even though it is a significant aspect of safety, along roads especially.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:33 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Man, that wood is probably incredibly valuable. I hope the homeowner found a way to recoup some of that value. Somewhere a woodworker or architect is watching that video and going NOOOOOO DON'T CUT IT SO SHOOORRRTT...
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:38 AM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:38 AM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Man, that wood is probably incredibly valuable.
In cash terms, trees that grow near houses are basically worthless. Sawmills won't take them even for free, because the likelihood of their containing sections of old steel fencing, treehouse nails, eyes from laundry drying lines, etc. is too high to be worth the risk of destroying mill blades, and even if that wasn't a factor it wouldn't be worth the cost of bringing in a crane and a log truck just to move one bole.
Someone with a portable chainsaw mill might like to take some planks out of it, but that means a few hours of a big saw droning away in an affluent neighborhood, leaving huge mounds of sawdust in the grass and flower beds.
posted by jon1270 at 5:58 AM on September 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
In cash terms, trees that grow near houses are basically worthless. Sawmills won't take them even for free, because the likelihood of their containing sections of old steel fencing, treehouse nails, eyes from laundry drying lines, etc. is too high to be worth the risk of destroying mill blades, and even if that wasn't a factor it wouldn't be worth the cost of bringing in a crane and a log truck just to move one bole.
Someone with a portable chainsaw mill might like to take some planks out of it, but that means a few hours of a big saw droning away in an affluent neighborhood, leaving huge mounds of sawdust in the grass and flower beds.
posted by jon1270 at 5:58 AM on September 16, 2015 [7 favorites]
4ster:
Oh, spoiler alert.
posted by Vendar at 6:02 AM on September 16, 2015
Metafilter: A bucket truck is not a crane.The crane departs after day 1 (after having served to stabilize the tree while they remove brush) not to return again. The bucket truck shows up subsequently to give them chainsaw access, and they had to build a frame to add stabilization since the crane was no longer available.
Oh, spoiler alert.
posted by Vendar at 6:02 AM on September 16, 2015
Heh. And I suppose I probably should have continued watching to catch the reference, eh? Please ignore me.
posted by Vendar at 6:13 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Vendar at 6:13 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the narrator has a thing for Lucy.
posted by rongorongo at 6:16 AM on September 16, 2015
posted by rongorongo at 6:16 AM on September 16, 2015
That was some riveting television. And yes, I did keep thinking how nice that tree would look bucked up and split on my firewood stack.
posted by gwint at 6:18 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by gwint at 6:18 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you had told me when I woke up this morning that I'd spend the first 30 minutes of my work day watching a video of a fallen tree being chainsaw'd to bits, I'd have thought you were crazy. And yet here we are.
posted by misskaz at 6:45 AM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by misskaz at 6:45 AM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm surprised the trunk didn't stand back up once they removed the top foliage.
posted by k5.user at 7:12 AM on September 16, 2015
posted by k5.user at 7:12 AM on September 16, 2015
utility companies like to remove any tree they can, and aggressively prune the ones they can't remove.
Oh they did aggressively prune it, removing all the limbs on THEIR side so that it was certain to fall on me if it fell. I would have made some noise about it except that it was healthy and I really didn't expect it to fall, but flooding undermined its surprisingly shallow root system and Tropical Storm Bill uprooted it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 AM on September 16, 2015
Oh they did aggressively prune it, removing all the limbs on THEIR side so that it was certain to fall on me if it fell. I would have made some noise about it except that it was healthy and I really didn't expect it to fall, but flooding undermined its surprisingly shallow root system and Tropical Storm Bill uprooted it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 AM on September 16, 2015
What does it cost to remove a tree like that?
Second hand information I've heard is in the 5-figure range.
posted by CrowGoat at 7:52 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Second hand information I've heard is in the 5-figure range.
posted by CrowGoat at 7:52 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
What does it cost to remove a tree like that?
That is how you can tell a true homeowner. It might be an amazing engineering feat, but how in the hell am I going to pay for all of those guys for all of that time?
I had a good sized tree pulled with none of the complications seen here (it was a good 100 feet from the house and had plenty of directions it could fall) and it cost about $1800
posted by rtimmel at 8:09 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
That is how you can tell a true homeowner. It might be an amazing engineering feat, but how in the hell am I going to pay for all of those guys for all of that time?
I had a good sized tree pulled with none of the complications seen here (it was a good 100 feet from the house and had plenty of directions it could fall) and it cost about $1800
posted by rtimmel at 8:09 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the cost of felling a "normal" large tree is often shocking to people. Which probably leads to people doing DIY work on something that is really not very safe at all.
posted by smackfu at 8:14 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by smackfu at 8:14 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Did you get a breakdown of the cost ? When we've had tree work, it's been an even split - 50% to take down and 50% to haul away. Since I want firewood, they usually halve the estimate. (viz who cuts the trunk into billets, might be a few extra $ if they do it.. )
posted by k5.user at 8:21 AM on September 16, 2015
posted by k5.user at 8:21 AM on September 16, 2015
I am so envious of these guys and their job. This particular job sucks, but it's a real job, and it's done at the end of the day.
Working in an office is stupid.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:01 AM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Working in an office is stupid.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:01 AM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Dip Flash: In my experience, utility companies like to remove any tree they can, and aggressively prune the ones they can't remove.
Oh, don't I wish.
In my New England town, every five years they drive down the main roads and carve maybe eight-foot holes through the tree canopies -- yes, leaving live branches & leaves overhanging the cables -- to let the power/phone/cable lines pass through. So every year during hurricane season, the limbs on these stupid trees-with-a-hole-in-the-middle still break and snap the lines.
CUT DOWN THE DAMN TREE (OR AT LEAST FINISH PRUNING IT) ALREADY.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:12 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, don't I wish.
In my New England town, every five years they drive down the main roads and carve maybe eight-foot holes through the tree canopies -- yes, leaving live branches & leaves overhanging the cables -- to let the power/phone/cable lines pass through. So every year during hurricane season, the limbs on these stupid trees-with-a-hole-in-the-middle still break and snap the lines.
CUT DOWN THE DAMN TREE (OR AT LEAST FINISH PRUNING IT) ALREADY.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:12 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Watched the whole thing. And if it were a movie, the guy at about the half way point, standing on his toes operating the chainsaw over his head would have had a bad day.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:47 AM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 9:47 AM on September 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
That is one well built chimney.
posted by orme at 10:39 AM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by orme at 10:39 AM on September 16, 2015 [6 favorites]
"Just use the tip."
posted by Flashman at 10:47 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 10:47 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
What does it cost to remove a tree like that?
I had a large hickory tree fall on my house that required a 40 foot crane to remove, and despite leaving most of it for me to cut up for firewood it still cost 3-4 thousand dollars, if I remember correctly. That was several times what repairs to the house cost. Fortunately my insurance covered it all. As for how tree removal can go wrong, a few years later my mother was having some large pines removed from the yard of a rental house she owns, which apparently required a crane. This was the result. Apparently the soil under the stabilizers on the crane was softer than the operator realized. When it fell it pretty much cut the house it landed on in half. Fortunately no injuries, but the crane company's insurance took a big hit.
posted by TedW at 10:56 AM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
I had a large hickory tree fall on my house that required a 40 foot crane to remove, and despite leaving most of it for me to cut up for firewood it still cost 3-4 thousand dollars, if I remember correctly. That was several times what repairs to the house cost. Fortunately my insurance covered it all. As for how tree removal can go wrong, a few years later my mother was having some large pines removed from the yard of a rental house she owns, which apparently required a crane. This was the result. Apparently the soil under the stabilizers on the crane was softer than the operator realized. When it fell it pretty much cut the house it landed on in half. Fortunately no injuries, but the crane company's insurance took a big hit.
posted by TedW at 10:56 AM on September 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
And by "stabilizers" I meant "outriggers", but couldn't think of the proper term.
posted by TedW at 11:00 AM on September 16, 2015
posted by TedW at 11:00 AM on September 16, 2015
At one point he was standing on tip-toes on a slanted roof covered in sawdust with A RUNNING CHAINSAW OVER HIS HEAD and that's when I noped on out of there.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:01 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:01 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wow, very impressive. Beautiful old home, too. And the masons who built that chimney would be proud.
It's always surprising, though I don't know why, how much wood weighs. I came across a guy on the roads here who lost a 10' section of 1' diameter fir from the back of his truck, and was going to help him get it off the road. The best we could do was roll it (neither of our backs were up to it), it weighed about 300 lbs. And fir is half the density of oak.
A 2' long piece of oak tree 2' in diameter weighs just shy of 400 lbs (a cubic foot of wet oak is about 60 pounds).
posted by maxwelton at 11:15 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's always surprising, though I don't know why, how much wood weighs. I came across a guy on the roads here who lost a 10' section of 1' diameter fir from the back of his truck, and was going to help him get it off the road. The best we could do was roll it (neither of our backs were up to it), it weighed about 300 lbs. And fir is half the density of oak.
A 2' long piece of oak tree 2' in diameter weighs just shy of 400 lbs (a cubic foot of wet oak is about 60 pounds).
posted by maxwelton at 11:15 AM on September 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
> This was the result
Today I learned a website dedicated to crane accidents exists. The internet is an amazing thing.
posted by noneuclidean at 1:45 PM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Today I learned a website dedicated to crane accidents exists. The internet is an amazing thing.
posted by noneuclidean at 1:45 PM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
I had a good sized tree pulled with none of the complications seen here (it was a good 100 feet from the house and had plenty of directions it could fall) and it cost about $1800
You got robbed. I had 11 decent sized trees removed from my property for the same price. A neighbor was getting a tree cut down for about 2k and I asked the guy for an estimate and he started at 8k and then gave me a deal at 5k because I was a friend of my neighbor. I told him anyone who would drop their price 3k in a matter of minutes must be a crook and told him to take off. 8 more estimates later that ranged from 1200 to 12k I went with the guy who gave me a day rate of 1800. There is no rhyme or reason to the tree business, shop around.
posted by any major dude at 2:21 PM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
You got robbed. I had 11 decent sized trees removed from my property for the same price. A neighbor was getting a tree cut down for about 2k and I asked the guy for an estimate and he started at 8k and then gave me a deal at 5k because I was a friend of my neighbor. I told him anyone who would drop their price 3k in a matter of minutes must be a crook and told him to take off. 8 more estimates later that ranged from 1200 to 12k I went with the guy who gave me a day rate of 1800. There is no rhyme or reason to the tree business, shop around.
posted by any major dude at 2:21 PM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
> 'hmm, I wonder how many cords I could get outta that'.
Roughly 5000 lbs/cord for oak, give or take, and let's say it was 40 tons, you get 16 cords. You're gonna need a bigger fireplace this winter.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:48 PM on September 16, 2015
Roughly 5000 lbs/cord for oak, give or take, and let's say it was 40 tons, you get 16 cords. You're gonna need a bigger fireplace this winter.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:48 PM on September 16, 2015
There is no rhyme or reason to the tree business, shop around.
I feel like I'm getting a deal, at 1700 for the three trees mentioned above, but none of them are of the diameter in the video. My understanding is there are charges for the precariousness and difficulty of the situation. The trees I'm having taken down allow for a truck or whatever to pull up along side them easily, it's not a tight squeeze between them and the house. They don't have to avoid sitting on my septic tank (other side of the house) and there are no electrical wires anywhere close.
Being able to manuever, having level ground, being safe from electricity, security about not dropping giant branches on a rooftop--that makes some jobs cheaper than other jobs.
Plus, the people doing the jobs have to be insured as an independent business and not as an offshoot of your homeowners insurance.
It's a whole thing. I'm only just learning. You really can't sell trees. Even if you're like 'can you take down these five 100 foot white pines and sell them'. You can sell to clear cut land, but not 'this tree, that tree' etc.
Reading this thread I'm comforted that 1700 for those three trees seems like a gift. They're not anywhere near the oak in the video, but they're twelve inches in diameter, and quite tall.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:27 PM on September 16, 2015
I feel like I'm getting a deal, at 1700 for the three trees mentioned above, but none of them are of the diameter in the video. My understanding is there are charges for the precariousness and difficulty of the situation. The trees I'm having taken down allow for a truck or whatever to pull up along side them easily, it's not a tight squeeze between them and the house. They don't have to avoid sitting on my septic tank (other side of the house) and there are no electrical wires anywhere close.
Being able to manuever, having level ground, being safe from electricity, security about not dropping giant branches on a rooftop--that makes some jobs cheaper than other jobs.
Plus, the people doing the jobs have to be insured as an independent business and not as an offshoot of your homeowners insurance.
It's a whole thing. I'm only just learning. You really can't sell trees. Even if you're like 'can you take down these five 100 foot white pines and sell them'. You can sell to clear cut land, but not 'this tree, that tree' etc.
Reading this thread I'm comforted that 1700 for those three trees seems like a gift. They're not anywhere near the oak in the video, but they're twelve inches in diameter, and quite tall.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:27 PM on September 16, 2015
God damn, I've got so much I could say about this video and thread, but of course I'm coming late to it. I wish I had more time, but I'll say a little something. First, I don't know why those guys didn't use a crane the entire time, if one wasn't available they should have waited until another one was. Also, that crane was seriously undersized for that job. And I think those support braces they put up were undersized also. I'm not going to get into the technical details of what I saw that they could have done better or differently, at least I got the tree down and everyone is alive and the house is intact. That doesn't necessarily mean it did the greatest job. Which gets me to the second point of people talking about their experiences having tree work done in this thread. Like many industries, there's a huge disparity and quality of work, the technical ability of the workers, and the ethics of the people selling the work. But you guys throwing out a number and saying I got X number of trees cut down 4 X number of dollars, and someone else saying well I only had one tree cut down for that much doesn't take into account how incredibly varied trees are and their locations are. Even small trees can be very difficult to remove in the right place, and large trees can be relatively easy. Removing the heavy debris is often a big part of the cost, and accessibility will make a huge difference and that cost. Whether or not a company pays their workers well, has the proper insurance, pays to have good training, or personal protective equipment, all factor into their rate. You can get somebody to take down a tree for you cheaply a lot of times, and a lot of times it'll work out fine, but just because someone knows how to use a chainsaw doesn't mean they really know anything about trees. If you want to take care of your trees, and you're not just getting them removed, get someone who actually knows something about trees to do the work. Unfortunately, you may not be able to tell the difference between someone who's really knowledgeable as opposed to someone who confidently tells you bullshit. All I can say is ask a lot of questions and trust your instincts.
posted by Red Loop at 3:53 AM on September 17, 2015
posted by Red Loop at 3:53 AM on September 17, 2015
Roughly 5000 lbs/cord for oak, give or take, and let's say it was 40 tons, you get 16 cords. You're gonna need a bigger fireplace this winter.
The tree in the video is closer to 2 or 3 cords (pdf). In my area, where firewood is actually a useful commodity (as opposed to Saratoga), that means that after cutting the whole thing into appropriately short chunks, carting it to a worksite, splitting it all with hydraulics, letting it sit in piles for a while to at least partially dry out, loading it back onto trucks and delivering it to customers, it would sell for about $750. People are always putting up Craigslist ads seeking free tree removal in exchange for the wood, but unless the tree is out in the middle of a field, with no nearby wires or structures, it just ain't gonna happen. The value of most standing timber, even outside of residential areas, is shockingly low. Prices for wood are almost entirely driven by the costs of labor, land, energy and machinery.
posted by jon1270 at 5:04 AM on September 17, 2015
The tree in the video is closer to 2 or 3 cords (pdf). In my area, where firewood is actually a useful commodity (as opposed to Saratoga), that means that after cutting the whole thing into appropriately short chunks, carting it to a worksite, splitting it all with hydraulics, letting it sit in piles for a while to at least partially dry out, loading it back onto trucks and delivering it to customers, it would sell for about $750. People are always putting up Craigslist ads seeking free tree removal in exchange for the wood, but unless the tree is out in the middle of a field, with no nearby wires or structures, it just ain't gonna happen. The value of most standing timber, even outside of residential areas, is shockingly low. Prices for wood are almost entirely driven by the costs of labor, land, energy and machinery.
posted by jon1270 at 5:04 AM on September 17, 2015
I had a somewhat negative reaction to this video, so have held off saying something so as not to spoil others possible enjoyment ... but these people have never worked in the woods. They have very very limited experience felling. They do not move or hold their saw with proper deference. I was scared for them in many instances as they worked blindly, guessing their way forward rather than knowing and executing. They had an abundance of manpower and machinery but not an ounce of technique.
Let me try to put something positive here. When you are taking apart a tree that is hung up or in an unwanted position, you correct it with properly placed cuts. How you cut and where is critical. Every cut they made was a brute, straight through chew. What you want to do is create a hinge. A hinge is made by leaving wood attached inside the cut. Where you leave the wood uncut determined the bend and rotation of the falling piece. It is how you control where you place trees and limbs. So much work was wasted because there wasn't a single back cut made. To get even more fancy you can cut the hinge as the log begins to bend and twist to get an even more exact fall point. Logs striping back bark as they come apart means the log is hung up, out of control and going where ever the fuck it wants. A hinged log comes apart when and falls where you decide it will.
posted by phoque at 3:29 AM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Let me try to put something positive here. When you are taking apart a tree that is hung up or in an unwanted position, you correct it with properly placed cuts. How you cut and where is critical. Every cut they made was a brute, straight through chew. What you want to do is create a hinge. A hinge is made by leaving wood attached inside the cut. Where you leave the wood uncut determined the bend and rotation of the falling piece. It is how you control where you place trees and limbs. So much work was wasted because there wasn't a single back cut made. To get even more fancy you can cut the hinge as the log begins to bend and twist to get an even more exact fall point. Logs striping back bark as they come apart means the log is hung up, out of control and going where ever the fuck it wants. A hinged log comes apart when and falls where you decide it will.
posted by phoque at 3:29 AM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
« Older Amazing Grace, Unprecedented Court Action | The Future of Food Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by ZaneJ. at 2:36 AM on September 16, 2015 [8 favorites]