Snake Oil Supplements?

September 22, 2015 2:44 AM

Scientific evidence for popular health supplements from information is beautiful [Snake Oil not included]
posted by chavenet (42 comments total)

The efficacy of St Johns Wort was rather surprising.
posted by mary8nne at 2:49 AM on September 22, 2015

That of coffee was not.
posted by three blind mice at 3:13 AM on September 22, 2015

abatacept? Does anyone consider that a health supplement?
posted by JohnnyB at 3:56 AM on September 22, 2015

This helps confirm my long-held belief that most of the crap in the supplements aisle don't do anything at all.
posted by double block and bleed at 4:17 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

I saw this about 6 months ago or so and promptly lost it -- thanks for finding it for me again!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:38 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

it seems it's updated regularly. i first saw this years ago, but this is v1.8 and dated last week.

wish they had an "auto-immune" grouping for the meds.

also, st john's wort has been known to be good for depression for ages - my partner took it regularly some 15 years ago and we're not really the type of people who take supplements.
posted by andrewcooke at 5:05 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]

The "Coffee - Heart Disease" notes say the optimum amount of coffee is 3-5 cups* per day.

That is -- That is way too much coffee for me. And I love coffee.

*The graph leaves off the units, but the summary of the linked article is clear.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 5:09 AM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]

They should really cite sources instead of "click here to see the lead study" which then, at least with the coconut oil study, refers to a paywalled site that does not even show the title of the study.

I found the full text of the coconut oil study. It's a study with 40 women. 20 of them got 2 tablespoons of soybean oil a day, 20 others got 2 tablespoons of coconut oil a day. Both groups got counseling. Both groups lost about a kilogram of weight on average. They differed a bit on about a dozen other markers (coconut oil had lower waist circumference, but higher insulin, for example). It's like putting people on a diet and giving them either a Mars or a Snickers bar every day. Measure at the end of the study, and you're bound to find some differences. That does not mean that candy bars helps with weight loss.

I don't know if the other studies are similarly unimpressive but I would not rely on this infographic for health information.
posted by blub at 5:10 AM on September 22, 2015 [11 favorites]

I want to send this to every single person who gives me helpful advice on what I, a breast cancer patient, should eat or not eat or take or not take. NONE OF IT WORKS, JERKS.
posted by something something at 5:12 AM on September 22, 2015 [14 favorites]

Much of the data is pulled from Examine.com, which is easier to dig into than the chart.
posted by almostmanda at 5:26 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]

This assumes you can actually get supplements that contain what they are supposed to. Which is a pretty huge assumption in the United States of Rip You Off Unregulation.
posted by srboisvert at 5:32 AM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]

It's like putting people on a diet and giving them either a Mars or a Snickers bar every day. Measure at the end of the study, and you're bound to find some differences. That does not mean that candy bars helps with weight loss.

Actually, it very well could mean that. But with a sample size of only 40 people, probably not.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:34 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

This helps confirm my long-held belief that most of the crap in the supplements aisle don't do anything at all.

Of course not. If it did, you wouldn't be able to purchase them so easily!
posted by kisch mokusch at 5:59 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Quick note: it's been pointed out that this has been posted before, but that was several years ago and the info has been updated, so I think this is good to stay.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:06 AM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]

That is -- That is way too much coffee for me. And I love coffee.

It's not uncommon to have impaired caffeine metabolism. If 1-2 cups seems to keep you wired all day, this could be you! For these people, more than 1 cup of coffee actually increases heart disease risk.
posted by vogon_poet at 6:07 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]

Almost all of the substance above the "worth it" line are well known and well understood things like vitamins, minerals, and drugs (caffeine and marijuana) already known to be effective. The post title could just have well have been "scientific evidence most supplements are worthless; a few things you already knew about are not".
posted by librosegretti at 6:18 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm really not surprised to see everything tagged for diabetes under the "not worth it" line. I've tried most of them personally.

The second and third days of drinking bitter melon tea (while also watching what I eat closely, and measuring often, and taking my usual regimen of drugs), I had really great blood sugar numbers. And then the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, and thirteenth days I did not. On the fourteenth day I couldn't be bothered to make it.
posted by Foosnark at 6:20 AM on September 22, 2015

This helps confirm my long-held belief that most of the crap in the supplements aisle don't do anything at all.

Of course they have an effect, often a positive one. The efficacy of the placebo effect is well documented. It'd be nice it there were some sugar pills with a low price but important looking effective label, but the high price seems to be an additional benefit!?!
posted by sammyo at 6:51 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

I knew someone (with a good STEM education) who used the older version of this thing to vigorously try prove to me that I shouldn't spend my money on iron supplements because there was no bubble for it above the 'Worth It' line that didn't pertain to maternal health and that I don't understand science. Except I'm anemic, which he also didn't realize was possible for someone who appears to eat a normal, healthy diet.

Sigh. Maybe this needs stronger skeptic-proofing? The findings have nothing to do with the worth of supplementation for people with known deficiencies, and my friend proved that it's potentially easy for someone with little health literacy to get it wrong.
posted by blerghamot at 6:53 AM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]

Would it be so hard for someone to JUST TELL ME what I have to take in order to balance out all my bad habits? I don't need to be the healthiest person in the world, I just want to break even. Like this.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:56 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

The older version of this (the one in the book) had green tea a lot higher. I wonder what's changed recently in the literature!

I'm still surprised to see Vitamin C listed in "promising" for "colds". The notion that Vitamin C was good for colds originally came from Linus Pauling's crackpot phase, where he claimed megadoses of vitamin C would cure cancer (studies show it makes cancer worse) and cure the common cold.

The orange juice industry latched onto this and used it to sell sugared orange squeezings, acting as though citrus fruits were your only source of C (I believe that, for example, tomatoes have it in stronger concentration).

Honestly I'm amazed it's even remotely likely to be useful for anything other than scurvy. A lot of herbal remedies were simply cures for misguided and imbalanced diets. Many historic diseases turn out to be simple malnutrition, and it's no surprise that wholesome foods would cure those well.

But grapefruits are still bizarre, pharmacologically speaking.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 7:02 AM on September 22, 2015 [4 favorites]

One thing I'd warn everyone about coffee and heart disease:

Cafestol, a diterpene present in unfiltered coffee brews such as Scandinavian boiled, Turkish, and cafetière coffee, is the most potent cholesterol-elevating compound known in the human diet.

Please, please, please use a paper filter when making coffee!
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 7:04 AM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]

Dammit...that's how I like my coffee. I should just give the stuff up.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:11 AM on September 22, 2015

I know, Cheat. Apparently the cafestol is actually what makes those styles delicious.

This is why we can't have nice things.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 7:13 AM on September 22, 2015

Reading that article, though...."Consumption of five to six strong cups (0.9 litres) a day"? I have one cup a day.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:14 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

Well you can pry my Cafestol from my cold, dead ... shouldn't be long now.
posted by yoHighness at 7:19 AM on September 22, 2015 [6 favorites]

For coffee lovers, how is your cholesterol? I've read that the effects of cafestol is variable. Cafestol is bad for people with a tendency for high cholesterol. People with low cholesterol are not affected by it. I'm off to try to find the study for this.
posted by ThreeCatsBob at 7:21 AM on September 22, 2015

The efficacy of St Johns Wort was rather surprising.

Me too, especially considering St. John's Wort was specifically singled out as not better than a placebo in the excellent Frontline documentary The Alternative Fix. That show and study are a little dated, so maybe there is better information now? Still, I read what they did and it seemed pretty compelling that St. John's Wort was not better than a placebo at fighting depression.
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:24 AM on September 22, 2015

I initially misread that as people drinking five to six 0.9 litre cups a day and thought it was a wonder they even survived the study.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:25 AM on September 22, 2015 [2 favorites]

Cafestol Variability...

Seems to me that if your drinking unfiltered coffee, and your lipid numbers are fine, don't worry about it.
posted by ThreeCatsBob at 7:31 AM on September 22, 2015

They had a couple of supplements I take (under doctor's orders) but not for the things I take them for (yes I take fish oil to help combat dry eye). I was also a little confused about the folic acid--I take that to counter the side effects of another drug which is also used for chemotherapy. I thought that was what folic acid was used for where cancer was concerned, not to directly counter anything about cancer.
posted by immlass at 8:07 AM on September 22, 2015

Cafestol is by far the most lazy, un-creative name for a chemical compound.

Friday afternoon, 4:30 PM - Bob and Mary are finishing a report on their discovery of a cholesterol-elevating compound in coffee
"Quick, we gotta give a name for this! Going fishing this weekend"
"Well, I guess we should consider the chemical makeup of the compou..."
"Listen, internet's down, so you're going to have to go through the Chemistry reference books. Do you feel like staying here all weekend, because I have a date with a catfish"
"How about Coffesterol?"
"Nah - it needs to be more, you know, international"
"Uh - what do they call coffee in France?"
"Who do you think I am, Pepe Le Pew?"
"OK, well what do they call it in Mexico?"
To a Mexican-American colleague in the other room: "Hey Juan - how do you say coffee in Mexican?"
"Spanish..."
"Spanish? Spanish is the Mexican word for coffee?"
"No we speak Span..."
"No time for history lessons now Juan - tick tock!"
"Sigh... it's café"

To Mary: "Great - let's call it Cafesterol"
"Too long - think twitter generation"
"Uh... Cafeterol?"
"Twitter!!!"
"Cafestol?"
"Perfect! See you on Monday!"
posted by bitteroldman at 8:10 AM on September 22, 2015 [8 favorites]

_{the irony is that "Bob" and "Mary" were probably the most lazy, un-creative names for my script}
posted by bitteroldman at 8:18 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

What's really irksome is expensive over-the-counter stuff like COQ10 (see bottom of chart) that (spouse or family member's) doctor will strongly recommend, but won't or can't prescribe. So I can't get reimbursed on the flexible benefits plan.
posted by kurumi at 8:20 AM on September 22, 2015

Huh, I didn't know about the cafestol thing. One of the treatments for high cholesterol is a bile acid sequestrant, but it's pretty expensive stuff to partially negate with coffee (though I'm not smart enough to understand if there is such an interaction, but both compounds affect bile acids).

The study I found showed a 8-10% increase for 5 cups of coffee a day, so maybe not as big a deal. Maybe worth a try though. I'll let you know in three months!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:43 AM on September 22, 2015

I have borderline high cholesterol and I switched from french press to aeropress about a year ago because of the cafestol thing. But the aeropress is great, and I don't regret it at all.
posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld at 9:01 AM on September 22, 2015

Don't think of it as 5-6 cups a day, think of it as 1 gigantic cup.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:14 AM on September 22, 2015 [5 favorites]

Aloe Vera efficacious for diabetes but not cuts/wounds? Did not see that coming.
posted by whuppy at 9:27 AM on September 22, 2015

The authors of this Cochrane Review wanted to find evidence on whether Aloe vera encourages wound healing in people with acute wounds (for example lacerations, surgical incisions and burns) and chronic wounds (for example infected wounds, arterial and venous ulcers). The review found that there was not enough research evidence to answer this question.

So, it doesn't sound like Aloe Vera is not efficacious for cuts/wounds, but rather that the study they referenced couldn't find evidence of studies that had been done---rather than that they found evidence of studies that showed that aloe vera doesn't work.
posted by leahwrenn at 9:39 AM on September 22, 2015 [3 favorites]

I was just thinking the other day that at one time I had found a link to a site that ranked supplements by their scientific evidence & support and that I probably found it via Metafilter and how would I ever find it again? And here we go!

Thanks!
posted by nubs at 11:14 AM on September 22, 2015

Are they counting sunburns as burns? That's the only thing I've ever used aloe vera for.
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:56 AM on September 22, 2015

It frustrates me that when you hover over a bubble, it gets big but them you must click on it to see their notes. Why not have the notes show up when it gets big?
posted by oneirodynia at 4:42 PM on September 22, 2015