Priyanka Chopra’s Accent Is Helping Me Solve My Biggest Identity Crisis
September 30, 2015 12:52 PM Subscribe
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
This is a good read. As one of the Third Culture people she's talking about - I moved to the UK from India when I was 12 - I don't 100% identify with the two different accents thing, though. There's definitely some Indian and some British in my accent, and I shade more Indian when I'm talking to my grandmother and more British when I'm talking to my colleagues, but it's all basically my voice. My grandmother still thinks I sound ultra-British and I'm sure my colleagues can hear my Indian intonations come in on certain words or in the rhythm of my sentences (my American cousin once pointed out my very Indian pronunciation of "assume" as "azume" and I'm sure there are lots of things like that which I don't notice). I definitely understand that fraught weird feeling of wanting to fit in and monitoring how you sound all the time but my life is so much better now that I've dropped the conscious monitoring and just let myself say "assume" the way that sounds right in my head, whoever I'm talking to.
posted by Aravis76 at 1:11 PM on September 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Aravis76 at 1:11 PM on September 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Most people that even move within the US get crap for whatever non-local accent they have. I had a friend in LA that was from Boston, but you couldn't really tell, until she got on the phone with family from back east.
It is a survival mechanism to not stand out. While in grade school, I moved from Texas to Chicago. I got all sorts of crap about my Texas Twang. To the point where several years after moving to Chicago, I ran into somebody who I only saw when I first moved there, and he was mocking the twang I had long since lost. I didn't even remember having it until that moment. I picked up a slight Midwest/Chicago accent growing up there, however I moved to California as a teenager and quickly lost that accent as well. Any time I talk to someone from Chicago, mine accent starts to creep out. I don't notice that I am doing it at all, but my wife will later call me out on it.
I am sure if I ever moved into the deep south, I would pick up a drawl. I currently live in Florida, but there are enough other transplants in the area, that the local dialect is a more generic American dialect.
I tend to pick up whatever local accent is prevalent where I am living. I don't know what mechanism it is that causes some people to retain an accent their entire life, even if they have spent most of their life away from the original area, since I apparently don't have it. Of course it is all English.
posted by Badgermann at 1:21 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
It is a survival mechanism to not stand out. While in grade school, I moved from Texas to Chicago. I got all sorts of crap about my Texas Twang. To the point where several years after moving to Chicago, I ran into somebody who I only saw when I first moved there, and he was mocking the twang I had long since lost. I didn't even remember having it until that moment. I picked up a slight Midwest/Chicago accent growing up there, however I moved to California as a teenager and quickly lost that accent as well. Any time I talk to someone from Chicago, mine accent starts to creep out. I don't notice that I am doing it at all, but my wife will later call me out on it.
I am sure if I ever moved into the deep south, I would pick up a drawl. I currently live in Florida, but there are enough other transplants in the area, that the local dialect is a more generic American dialect.
I tend to pick up whatever local accent is prevalent where I am living. I don't know what mechanism it is that causes some people to retain an accent their entire life, even if they have spent most of their life away from the original area, since I apparently don't have it. Of course it is all English.
posted by Badgermann at 1:21 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
My vowels have gotten hammered flat and my "r"s have been softening for some time - Boston is happening to my accent. Help.
posted by ColdOfTheIsleOfMan at 1:29 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ColdOfTheIsleOfMan at 1:29 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I tend to pick up whatever local accent is prevalent
My dad will do this within about fifteen seconds of striking up a conversation with someone that has a regional accent. He's completely unaware of it, it's non-volitional, and it sometimes occurs in the context of accents that are non-regional but more non-native-speaker or non-North American regional.
When I was growing up, I consistently misperceived this behavior as mocking in intent and it mortified me as only a kid can be by paternal behavior.
posted by mwhybark at 1:39 PM on September 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
My dad will do this within about fifteen seconds of striking up a conversation with someone that has a regional accent. He's completely unaware of it, it's non-volitional, and it sometimes occurs in the context of accents that are non-regional but more non-native-speaker or non-North American regional.
When I was growing up, I consistently misperceived this behavior as mocking in intent and it mortified me as only a kid can be by paternal behavior.
posted by mwhybark at 1:39 PM on September 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
i should introduce him to Art, as a controlled experiment.
posted by mwhybark at 1:47 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mwhybark at 1:47 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ah, accents. I grew up on Long Island, and everyone I meet asks me why I don't pronounce it "Looawng-GUY-land" to which I have no answer except that it tended to correlate vaguely with socioeconomic status. I also have an Australian friend whose accent is a bizarre mish-mosh of American and British with a lot of yelling and very little that is Aussie at all.
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:57 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:57 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine in college had both an occasional southern drawl show up and bit of a Minnesota accent show up in certain words. I was always looking to see if I could catch her having both show up at once. In retrospect, that was a jerk move.
When I was teaching, one of my students was from India by way of several countries. His American accent was impeccable, but when he imitated his parents, an Indian accent appeared immediately, one that I had never heard. I didn't even realize he wasn't from the US until a few months into the year.
posted by Hactar at 2:01 PM on September 30, 2015
When I was teaching, one of my students was from India by way of several countries. His American accent was impeccable, but when he imitated his parents, an Indian accent appeared immediately, one that I had never heard. I didn't even realize he wasn't from the US until a few months into the year.
posted by Hactar at 2:01 PM on September 30, 2015
i should introduce him to Art, as a controlled experiment.
I would Just drop stuff about Cold War communication networks into conversation to try and trip him up.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would Just drop stuff about Cold War communication networks into conversation to try and trip him up.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I got no accent. I was born down south, and even my mom used to joke about how I was a yankee down deep. Now, living in New York, when folks find out where I'm from and ask what happened to my accent, I tell them I was poor so I pawned it.
But yeah, on the phone with relatives, or when I visit, I can slip into a little more drawl.
But please, don't call them hicks. They're people with daughters and sons and jobs and worries just like you, no matter how they talk.
posted by valkane at 2:30 PM on September 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
But yeah, on the phone with relatives, or when I visit, I can slip into a little more drawl.
But please, don't call them hicks. They're people with daughters and sons and jobs and worries just like you, no matter how they talk.
posted by valkane at 2:30 PM on September 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
I also sometimes, somehow, pickup and emulate the accent of the person I am talking to if I don't pay attention. I'm sure some people end up offended or something, but honestly, I didn't mean to - it just happens. It's always so fraught and crazymaking for me to talk to anyone with a strong accent, because I have to focus on remembering how to talk.
Really? That's interesting. I also have a strong tendency to pick up the accent of people I'm speaking to --- not all of them, or at least some I seem to slide into more easily than others --- but I never try and check myself from doing it unless I'm talking with someone with an accent and in the presence of someone who knows my bog standard accent.
In my experience people never notice their own accent. Once you're involved in a conversation with someone their attention is on the topic, they never stop to consciously think about what you should sound like, they'll only notice if your accent is different to their own in a way that makes you harder to understand. I guess I always felt at bottom that was why I unconsciously do it, you're trying to get along with someone, form a connection, you change the way you talk in all kinds of ways. The same way you don't have to consciously think about not swearing in front of your grandma or calling your boss dude.
I lived in Ireland for a while --- first few weeks it was so bad someone actually asked me where in Dublin I was from. But after i went home for Christmas that year and came back it seemed to act like a booster shot; I could hear the Hibernicisms creeping in, but Irish people had no trouble pegging me as American. Which left me looking like a tool a couple time when people asked where I was from and I said the States....
posted by Diablevert at 2:31 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Really? That's interesting. I also have a strong tendency to pick up the accent of people I'm speaking to --- not all of them, or at least some I seem to slide into more easily than others --- but I never try and check myself from doing it unless I'm talking with someone with an accent and in the presence of someone who knows my bog standard accent.
In my experience people never notice their own accent. Once you're involved in a conversation with someone their attention is on the topic, they never stop to consciously think about what you should sound like, they'll only notice if your accent is different to their own in a way that makes you harder to understand. I guess I always felt at bottom that was why I unconsciously do it, you're trying to get along with someone, form a connection, you change the way you talk in all kinds of ways. The same way you don't have to consciously think about not swearing in front of your grandma or calling your boss dude.
I lived in Ireland for a while --- first few weeks it was so bad someone actually asked me where in Dublin I was from. But after i went home for Christmas that year and came back it seemed to act like a booster shot; I could hear the Hibernicisms creeping in, but Irish people had no trouble pegging me as American. Which left me looking like a tool a couple time when people asked where I was from and I said the States....
posted by Diablevert at 2:31 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Finally, a thread where I have some qualifications to comment.
I grew up in India until the age of 24, and I've only been in the US for six years now. Having more or less a solid identity before I arrived I've never had some of the identity issues that Indian-American kids or those who've had scattered childhoods do (just as an example, I once heard an Indian-American guy apply the rather derisive term ABCD, "American Born Confused Desi" to himself).
I do understand the feeling of being of two cultures, though. In today's world you don't even have to be in the US for that to happen. You grow up reading English, watching Friends, and Full House, and a little bit of America seeps into you. This is not a bad thing. It's just how the modern world is.
Some people feel uncomfortable when they notice this about themselves. It can feel a little like having a foot in two boats, never finding your balance. This, coupled with the insecurity of being from a poor country, is where all the little jokes about Priyanka Chopra and people like me are born.
This is also why all the comments here talking about various American accents are missing the point. Yes, you might get a little ribbing if you speak in a Southern drawl in New York City. That does not compare however to the guilt and baggage that can come with the feeling that you are betraying your ancient culture and abandoning its passport. Something that might come close in the American context is a black kid from the projects slipping into AAVE in a board meeting.
posted by Idle Curiosity at 3:00 PM on September 30, 2015 [26 favorites]
I grew up in India until the age of 24, and I've only been in the US for six years now. Having more or less a solid identity before I arrived I've never had some of the identity issues that Indian-American kids or those who've had scattered childhoods do (just as an example, I once heard an Indian-American guy apply the rather derisive term ABCD, "American Born Confused Desi" to himself).
I do understand the feeling of being of two cultures, though. In today's world you don't even have to be in the US for that to happen. You grow up reading English, watching Friends, and Full House, and a little bit of America seeps into you. This is not a bad thing. It's just how the modern world is.
Some people feel uncomfortable when they notice this about themselves. It can feel a little like having a foot in two boats, never finding your balance. This, coupled with the insecurity of being from a poor country, is where all the little jokes about Priyanka Chopra and people like me are born.
This is also why all the comments here talking about various American accents are missing the point. Yes, you might get a little ribbing if you speak in a Southern drawl in New York City. That does not compare however to the guilt and baggage that can come with the feeling that you are betraying your ancient culture and abandoning its passport. Something that might come close in the American context is a black kid from the projects slipping into AAVE in a board meeting.
posted by Idle Curiosity at 3:00 PM on September 30, 2015 [26 favorites]
I'm a little bit confused about one thing - I get that the author wants to make a distinction between Indian and Indian-American in order to make a big deal about Chopra being the first Indian lead on an American TV show (pace Mindy Kaling). But if she grew up partly in Massachusetts... well, how much time in America do you need to be considered -American?
posted by psoas at 3:45 PM on September 30, 2015
posted by psoas at 3:45 PM on September 30, 2015
Only quasi-related sidebar: the Quantico pilot was awesome if you're in to that kind of thing, and Chopra was awesome in it. Well worth a watch if you're on the fence.
posted by Itaxpica at 3:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 3:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've only seen the posters, so i'm curious: is she kissing her badge or eating it? Or are they saving that mystery for sweeps?
posted by Navelgazer at 3:47 PM on September 30, 2015
posted by Navelgazer at 3:47 PM on September 30, 2015
I am so very aware of my accent in all the languages I speak, which I do modify based on the person I'm speaking to, because I don't know, I want to make it easier for my interlocutor, and, ironically, I do not want to be marked as being too alien out of some immigrant sense of self-preservation. I speak English with my partner and family and friends both in the US and Asia, and I never use the same accent. This results in my switching accents in a single conversation when these groups overlap, which amuses the Americans disproportionately. (Asia: "Of course you would switch." US: "WHOA YOU SOUND SO DIFFERENT WTF?!") Whenever English speakers in the West claim that they switch accents depending on context, even though this is very true as illustrated in the comments above, I have never, ever heard an English-speaking Western expat pick up, say, Singaporean or Indian accented English. I used to think that it was just harder. These days, I don't wonder if there's some sort of unconscious imperialistic belief, that only English from the Anglosphere matters. Switching from one US accent to another is really not as fraught as what's described in this essay. It isn't just about the accent, it often involves entire emotional and linguistic vocabularies.
I speak "better" English with native speakers of English, but the English I speak with friends and family from home is far more vivid--there's more slang, more phrases borrowed from other languages as I have to show them that I have not "forgotten my roots", and also a greater ease because I don't have to prove to them that I am indeed fluent or explain why I can speak English. I flirt with the idea of taking lessons to sound 100% American from time to time--I did not major in a STEM field and I often wonder if this weird, amorphous accent of mine is an impediment (among many other things) when it comes to getting a job in the arts field I want to break into the most, even with my degrees from the US and Australia.
posted by peripathetic at 3:51 PM on September 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
I speak "better" English with native speakers of English, but the English I speak with friends and family from home is far more vivid--there's more slang, more phrases borrowed from other languages as I have to show them that I have not "forgotten my roots", and also a greater ease because I don't have to prove to them that I am indeed fluent or explain why I can speak English. I flirt with the idea of taking lessons to sound 100% American from time to time--I did not major in a STEM field and I often wonder if this weird, amorphous accent of mine is an impediment (among many other things) when it comes to getting a job in the arts field I want to break into the most, even with my degrees from the US and Australia.
posted by peripathetic at 3:51 PM on September 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
I was really struck about how much of this is about class and race as much as accent - the accent is markers of less desirable classes and races (like a Southern accent in the US tends to be) and is modulated by the race of the person speaking.
I'm reminded of the moment on Leverage when the main Grifter is passing as an Indian woman from Mumbai and they bring in an Indian actor to play her contact back in India because the white guy they're conning fetishizes India. After the con-ee leaves, the actor comes out from the next room and replies to his friends in a thickly Irish Boston accent (they were currently in Boston, so this accent showed up a lot) - and I found it such a startling and then such a delightful moment, where my assumptions about the situation were turned on their head. I don't know how that scene would play out to someone who is forced into these accent situations (I'm white; my New English accent was beaten out of my by years of speech class), but it struck me as an unusual moment of depth which forced me to reconsider how I had pre-judged this man based on his appearance.
Another aspect of this same thing about how it's accent modulated by class and race is how African American Vernacular English is often used by white people to be "edgy" or "street" and can offer them status in a given situation (music, acting, etc...), but it's almost always discouraged for black people. Dave Chapelle spoke a few times about how he knew how to speak normally and "job interview" and how he would use his "job interview" accent to startle white people who were dismissing him and to try to get the power he should have been awarded as a brilliant comedian, and would have been awarded if he had been white. Code switching is something explicitly discussed by a lot of black people of all sorts of stripes, and form the outside it seems like there are a lot of similarities between code switching and the dual accents being described in this article.
posted by Deoridhe at 3:56 PM on September 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm reminded of the moment on Leverage when the main Grifter is passing as an Indian woman from Mumbai and they bring in an Indian actor to play her contact back in India because the white guy they're conning fetishizes India. After the con-ee leaves, the actor comes out from the next room and replies to his friends in a thickly Irish Boston accent (they were currently in Boston, so this accent showed up a lot) - and I found it such a startling and then such a delightful moment, where my assumptions about the situation were turned on their head. I don't know how that scene would play out to someone who is forced into these accent situations (I'm white; my New English accent was beaten out of my by years of speech class), but it struck me as an unusual moment of depth which forced me to reconsider how I had pre-judged this man based on his appearance.
Another aspect of this same thing about how it's accent modulated by class and race is how African American Vernacular English is often used by white people to be "edgy" or "street" and can offer them status in a given situation (music, acting, etc...), but it's almost always discouraged for black people. Dave Chapelle spoke a few times about how he knew how to speak normally and "job interview" and how he would use his "job interview" accent to startle white people who were dismissing him and to try to get the power he should have been awarded as a brilliant comedian, and would have been awarded if he had been white. Code switching is something explicitly discussed by a lot of black people of all sorts of stripes, and form the outside it seems like there are a lot of similarities between code switching and the dual accents being described in this article.
posted by Deoridhe at 3:56 PM on September 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is also why all the comments here talking about various American accents are missing the point. Yes, you might get a little ribbing if you speak in a Southern drawl in New York City. That does not compare however to the guilt and baggage that can come with the feeling that you are betraying your ancient culture and abandoning its passport.
Exactly. This is much more than different American accents. Maybe because the Metafilter demographic skews North American, people tend to try to identify or relate somewhat by talking about their own experiences as Americans within America. But this is very much an essay about wrestling with one's identity that is rooted in a developing, non-Western country: the discrimination and challenges (and responsibilities, even) related to being the "Other", the resulting social inequality and baggage of having a "non-white" identity, and trying to establish yourself in a Western/white-oriented world where the power dynamic favors those who assimilate, while honoring your non-white/non-Western origins. There are a lot complex issues you could unpack from this essay - issues of post-colonialism, cultural/racial bias and baggage, issues of class, of national/cultural/racial authenticity - it just seems like talking about different American regional accents sort of minimizes what the author is really trying to say, even if unintentionally.
posted by aielen at 4:25 PM on September 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
Exactly. This is much more than different American accents. Maybe because the Metafilter demographic skews North American, people tend to try to identify or relate somewhat by talking about their own experiences as Americans within America. But this is very much an essay about wrestling with one's identity that is rooted in a developing, non-Western country: the discrimination and challenges (and responsibilities, even) related to being the "Other", the resulting social inequality and baggage of having a "non-white" identity, and trying to establish yourself in a Western/white-oriented world where the power dynamic favors those who assimilate, while honoring your non-white/non-Western origins. There are a lot complex issues you could unpack from this essay - issues of post-colonialism, cultural/racial bias and baggage, issues of class, of national/cultural/racial authenticity - it just seems like talking about different American regional accents sort of minimizes what the author is really trying to say, even if unintentionally.
posted by aielen at 4:25 PM on September 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
There are a lot complex issues you could unpack from this essay - issues of post-colonialism, cultural/racial bias and baggage, issues of class, of national/cultural/racial authenticity - it just seems like talking about different American regional accents sort of minimizes what the author is really trying to say, even if unintentionally.
I can't bring experiences I don't have to the table in trying to understand the author's essay. I can only bring the experiences I do have, and hope to find the in the overlap the spark of recognition and empathy. She carries burdens I do not and never will, and I would not wish to seem to think otherwise.
One of the shared aspects I thought was interesting --- not the whole, but not an unimportant one --- is the extent to which an accent and its expression is conscious or unconscious. It's treated as an indelible marker, so often, something that tells people where you're from on a number of levels. Yet many people, me at least, seem to be able to erase it without noticing, take on another brand. Is this a betrayal, of a sort? Does it only count as one if we will it so, if we consciously adopt our camouflage? Are we lying when we do it? Or the thing we wish to express a feeling of fellowship, sameness? A sign of welcoming, of comfort? I sound like you, I'm one of you, you can trust me. Accept me. Is that a lie, too?
I don't think it weighs as much, counts for as much, being accepted by Northerners when you're from the South, as it does being accepted by a bunch of American college kids when you're from a foreign country. The scale is different, the weight is different. The mechanism at the center may well be the same, the question the same. Am I a liar? Have I betrayed my people? Who are my people? What do I owe them?
posted by Diablevert at 5:20 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can't bring experiences I don't have to the table in trying to understand the author's essay. I can only bring the experiences I do have, and hope to find the in the overlap the spark of recognition and empathy. She carries burdens I do not and never will, and I would not wish to seem to think otherwise.
One of the shared aspects I thought was interesting --- not the whole, but not an unimportant one --- is the extent to which an accent and its expression is conscious or unconscious. It's treated as an indelible marker, so often, something that tells people where you're from on a number of levels. Yet many people, me at least, seem to be able to erase it without noticing, take on another brand. Is this a betrayal, of a sort? Does it only count as one if we will it so, if we consciously adopt our camouflage? Are we lying when we do it? Or the thing we wish to express a feeling of fellowship, sameness? A sign of welcoming, of comfort? I sound like you, I'm one of you, you can trust me. Accept me. Is that a lie, too?
I don't think it weighs as much, counts for as much, being accepted by Northerners when you're from the South, as it does being accepted by a bunch of American college kids when you're from a foreign country. The scale is different, the weight is different. The mechanism at the center may well be the same, the question the same. Am I a liar? Have I betrayed my people? Who are my people? What do I owe them?
posted by Diablevert at 5:20 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Chopra's performance in Quantico gives me all the feels. Chopra's presence in Quantio give me all the feels.
It may be the first time I've seen a person who reads as like me in a lead role in a piece of English language pop culture, other than as the butt of a joke or a cliché second banana.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:23 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
It may be the first time I've seen a person who reads as like me in a lead role in a piece of English language pop culture, other than as the butt of a joke or a cliché second banana.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:23 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I feel bad; I thought Quantico was a hot jumbled mess. Like someone decided to make a mashup of Homeland and, I dunno, How To Get Away With Murder and slap it on the television.
Chopra was quite good and clearly has screen presence, though.
posted by Justinian at 5:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Chopra was quite good and clearly has screen presence, though.
posted by Justinian at 5:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I feel bad; I thought Quantico was a hot jumbled mess.
It was. It's ridiculous and soapy. And yet I enjoyed it.
"As Rohin Guha writes in the Aerogram, when you’ve been content with scraps for your whole life, you never expect to be thrown a bone".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
It was. It's ridiculous and soapy. And yet I enjoyed it.
"As Rohin Guha writes in the Aerogram, when you’ve been content with scraps for your whole life, you never expect to be thrown a bone".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
. if she grew up partly in Massachusetts... well, how much time in America do you need to be considered -American?
What? Living there for a few years doesn't make you American. She's an Indian woman who lived in the US temporarily. Would you ask why an English kid isn't called an American if they lived there during high school?
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:54 PM on September 30, 2015
What? Living there for a few years doesn't make you American. She's an Indian woman who lived in the US temporarily. Would you ask why an English kid isn't called an American if they lived there during high school?
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:54 PM on September 30, 2015
I was born in the Philippines, but I was born to a father who spent his university years in California and would always talk about how we'd Move to America Some Day. My older cousins had also attended university in Massachusetts, and on their summer breaks back in Manila, I'd listen to them talking. Most urban Filipinos will speak English with varying levels of proficiency. Our Tagalog mixes in English with vary levels of frequency depending on who else is in the conversation, and I remember the way my cousins would just flip back and forth between posh Tagalog and Massachusetts English, talking about how everything was so much better in America and nothing in Manila was worth a damn, while smoking Marlboro cigarettes, and acting like they were the most glamorous thing that I never wanted to be.
Like, I was getting an introduction to cultural authenticity and Third Culture ambivalence at the age of 6.
For different reasons that didn't at all go along with my dad's grand plan, we did move to the US, then Canada. We moved early enough that my accent only burdened me through three tortuous years before it blended seamlessly into something vaguely West Coast North American.
Then it was solidly into Third Culture no-man's land. To my Canadian classmates, I was the kid from San Francisco. To my American friends, I was the immigrant from the Philippines. To Filipino-Americans, I was some kind of expat sellout because I listened to more Leonard Cohen than electro-pop, and was more interested in Dungeons and Dragons than cars.
The accent is a signifier, but like all of the other signals that we are variously experts and amateurs at sending and interpreting, it's just one of many things that we do and use to define ourselves.
Nowadays, I'm fine. I got through that. I have a good group of friends who don't define me by my heritage or cultural identity. I learned earlier on the same lessons that this writer is going through about defining yourself by the standards of cultural authenticity set by others is a losing game. You only win when you're authentic to your own self. I hope she's able to solve it for herself, and I hope that her solution involves some kind of genuine straddling of her multiple cultures as opposed to feeling like she has to abandon one or the other.
posted by bl1nk at 6:55 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Like, I was getting an introduction to cultural authenticity and Third Culture ambivalence at the age of 6.
For different reasons that didn't at all go along with my dad's grand plan, we did move to the US, then Canada. We moved early enough that my accent only burdened me through three tortuous years before it blended seamlessly into something vaguely West Coast North American.
Then it was solidly into Third Culture no-man's land. To my Canadian classmates, I was the kid from San Francisco. To my American friends, I was the immigrant from the Philippines. To Filipino-Americans, I was some kind of expat sellout because I listened to more Leonard Cohen than electro-pop, and was more interested in Dungeons and Dragons than cars.
The accent is a signifier, but like all of the other signals that we are variously experts and amateurs at sending and interpreting, it's just one of many things that we do and use to define ourselves.
Nowadays, I'm fine. I got through that. I have a good group of friends who don't define me by my heritage or cultural identity. I learned earlier on the same lessons that this writer is going through about defining yourself by the standards of cultural authenticity set by others is a losing game. You only win when you're authentic to your own self. I hope she's able to solve it for herself, and I hope that her solution involves some kind of genuine straddling of her multiple cultures as opposed to feeling like she has to abandon one or the other.
posted by bl1nk at 6:55 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Chopra's performance in Quantico gives me all the feels. Chopra's presence in Quantio give me all the feels.
It may be the first time I've seen a person who reads as like me in a lead role in a piece of English language pop culture, other than as the butt of a joke or a cliché second banana.
Her presence totally gives me feels! I love that her character is a totally normal person. I also love that indian American woman is a thing to the degree now that people need to study to learn how to play it.
Yay!
posted by zutalors! at 7:05 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
It may be the first time I've seen a person who reads as like me in a lead role in a piece of English language pop culture, other than as the butt of a joke or a cliché second banana.
Her presence totally gives me feels! I love that her character is a totally normal person. I also love that indian American woman is a thing to the degree now that people need to study to learn how to play it.
Yay!
posted by zutalors! at 7:05 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Whenever English speakers in the West claim that they switch accents depending on context, even though this is very true as illustrated in the comments above, I have never, ever heard an English-speaking Western expat pick up, say, Singaporean or Indian accented English. I used to think that it was just harder. These days, I don't wonder if there's some sort of unconscious imperialistic belief, that only English from the Anglosphere matters.
From my experience (and I speak 3 languages, but my first language was/is N. American English) attributing imperialism here would be a mistake. Rather, the idea that you would switch your English as a native N. American English-speaker feels like a form of cultural appropriation on one hand and of trying-too-hard on the other. It simultaneously harkens to conceptualizations of trying to *take* something of another's identity, claiming it while not actually coming from it; and of inauthenticity, that I wouldn't be true to myself if my English changed just because I was speaking with someone from the Philippines or South Africa or someplace else.
On top of that, I've been socialized to hear people making fun of accents as impolite at best and racist at worst. This is regional, I think, at least because it seems more socially acceptable to make fun of accents in some places than others. I certainly here it more often in some U.S. regions. More to the point, one of the things I *constantly* have to get used to when I transition to Spanish after being in English-language environments is that it's socially acceptable to make fun of how someone speaks in ways that would be cruel to me, were they in English.
I bring this point up because in taking on someone else's accent, I would always be worried that the other person would think I was subtly mocking them. So even when I pick up other people's speech patterns I feel a little bit guilty. This is true for me when I pick up the lilt of northern Mexico or the dropped-S of Caribbean Spanish--I hear myself talking and get a bit worried.
Which is just to say that the phenomenon is a more complex social phenomenon. It might have imperialist instrument-effects, but for many individuals, it's meant as the complete opposite of correcting someone else's language, the opposite of saying your language doesn't count. Instead it feels like it's more respectful to come into the conversation accepting one another's language as-is.
posted by migrantology at 10:14 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
From my experience (and I speak 3 languages, but my first language was/is N. American English) attributing imperialism here would be a mistake. Rather, the idea that you would switch your English as a native N. American English-speaker feels like a form of cultural appropriation on one hand and of trying-too-hard on the other. It simultaneously harkens to conceptualizations of trying to *take* something of another's identity, claiming it while not actually coming from it; and of inauthenticity, that I wouldn't be true to myself if my English changed just because I was speaking with someone from the Philippines or South Africa or someplace else.
On top of that, I've been socialized to hear people making fun of accents as impolite at best and racist at worst. This is regional, I think, at least because it seems more socially acceptable to make fun of accents in some places than others. I certainly here it more often in some U.S. regions. More to the point, one of the things I *constantly* have to get used to when I transition to Spanish after being in English-language environments is that it's socially acceptable to make fun of how someone speaks in ways that would be cruel to me, were they in English.
I bring this point up because in taking on someone else's accent, I would always be worried that the other person would think I was subtly mocking them. So even when I pick up other people's speech patterns I feel a little bit guilty. This is true for me when I pick up the lilt of northern Mexico or the dropped-S of Caribbean Spanish--I hear myself talking and get a bit worried.
Which is just to say that the phenomenon is a more complex social phenomenon. It might have imperialist instrument-effects, but for many individuals, it's meant as the complete opposite of correcting someone else's language, the opposite of saying your language doesn't count. Instead it feels like it's more respectful to come into the conversation accepting one another's language as-is.
posted by migrantology at 10:14 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
On the "how long do you have to live in America to be American" point, it's a question of citizenship, isn't it? Priyanka Chopra is an Indian citizen who used to be Miss India and represented India at the Miss World competition. Mindy Kaling, on the other hand, is an American citizen who hates pageants but who, if she participated in one, would presumably be competing to be Miss America.
posted by Aravis76 at 10:30 PM on September 30, 2015
posted by Aravis76 at 10:30 PM on September 30, 2015
These days, I don't wonder if there's some sort of unconscious imperialistic belief, that only English from the Anglosphere matters.
-
From my experience (and I speak 3 languages, but my first language was/is N. American English) attributing imperialism here would be a mistake.
While I'm sure different people have different reasons for assuming (or choosing not to assume) accents, there are still people around who believe that English from the "Anglosphere" is the only (or more) correct form of English, which in turn creates definite benefits to speaking "Western"-accented English.
It's not necessarily imperialism per se - I guess I think of it more as post-colonialism as well, since that tends to also address the issue of non-Westerners taking on attitudes that favor marks of Western culture above their original culture. (Many of the people that place higher value on "Western"-accented English are also non-Westerners.)
This reminds me of this essay by Pooja Makhijani (Indian-American living in postcolonial Southeast Asia). An excerpt: "My US accent and native English language ability nearly guarantees that I will receive better service in restaurants and shops. My US passport assures that I can travel in and out of Changi International Airport with minimal hassle. It makes it likely that my Singapore Permanent Residency application was approved with less scrutiny than my China passport-holding expatriate friends, and that landlords accepted my tenancy application while rejecting potential India passport-holding tenants. "
I used to have a native North American accent, which I dropped in favor of an Asian accent. People commented on how it was a pity I was losing my American accent, which would have (in their opinion) been more useful to me. In a way, they were right. Different accents hold different socioeconomic value, and correspondingly different amounts of socioeconomic opportunity. If someone already has an accent that has a lot of socioeconomic value, they have much less incentive to grasp an accent that has less socioeconomic value.
posted by aielen at 10:57 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
-
From my experience (and I speak 3 languages, but my first language was/is N. American English) attributing imperialism here would be a mistake.
While I'm sure different people have different reasons for assuming (or choosing not to assume) accents, there are still people around who believe that English from the "Anglosphere" is the only (or more) correct form of English, which in turn creates definite benefits to speaking "Western"-accented English.
It's not necessarily imperialism per se - I guess I think of it more as post-colonialism as well, since that tends to also address the issue of non-Westerners taking on attitudes that favor marks of Western culture above their original culture. (Many of the people that place higher value on "Western"-accented English are also non-Westerners.)
This reminds me of this essay by Pooja Makhijani (Indian-American living in postcolonial Southeast Asia). An excerpt: "My US accent and native English language ability nearly guarantees that I will receive better service in restaurants and shops. My US passport assures that I can travel in and out of Changi International Airport with minimal hassle. It makes it likely that my Singapore Permanent Residency application was approved with less scrutiny than my China passport-holding expatriate friends, and that landlords accepted my tenancy application while rejecting potential India passport-holding tenants. "
I used to have a native North American accent, which I dropped in favor of an Asian accent. People commented on how it was a pity I was losing my American accent, which would have (in their opinion) been more useful to me. In a way, they were right. Different accents hold different socioeconomic value, and correspondingly different amounts of socioeconomic opportunity. If someone already has an accent that has a lot of socioeconomic value, they have much less incentive to grasp an accent that has less socioeconomic value.
posted by aielen at 10:57 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I watched this show, and it's very compelling. I didn't notice her accent.
posted by Sassenach at 7:34 AM on October 1, 2015
posted by Sassenach at 7:34 AM on October 1, 2015
Wow, as someone who is at least nominally one of those Third Culture Kids from India, this article speaks to me. I grew up entirely in India, with the exception of two years spent at the age of 7-8 in Los Angeles. Not really a long period of time, but I had so many formative experiences there -- going to school at a public magnet school, getting my first view of racial tensions because I had both black and white friends and most people didn't, finally figuring out what my neighbor's dirty jokes meant. My dad was at USC, and had access to pretty high speed Internet for that time (early 90s), so there was a whole world of information that I eagerly absorbed. I also tried my very best to fit in at school, which was hard. At school, I struggled to understand everyone's disdain for the school lunches (they were not great, but I failed to see how a peanut butter and jelly sandwich was better than a hot lunch), people asked me to how to speak "Indian" and I got lots of comments about my Indian accent. On the phone, with my family back home, I got lots of comments on how American my accent was now. Still, I eventually made friends, some of whom I corresponded with for years after heading back home. I wouldn't give up that experience for anything, as it was the thing that really taught me that there was a there beyond India and my home city and the narrow circles we moved in. When we got back home, and there was no Internet for another few years and nobody understood any dirty jokes for school, I had some context to put these things into. Back in my Indian school, I tried desperately to fit in again. I remember someone asking me what I thought of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (which at the time I loved). I didn't want to say that though, as I just wanted to fit in, and what if this girl hated them? I hedged, and received a little lecture on how stupid it was that I wouldn't say what I thought, and is this what I'd learnt in the US? Hmm, is this what I learnt in the US? Maybe, to some extent.
I guess nowadays, I've been thinking about these things for a long time, and I'm more comfortable in my skin. I've been living in the US since I was 21 (around 8 years now). I code switch, and I know I do, but I would never dream of hiding the way I speak to my parents around my friends here. I do get comments on it, but they're usually friendly, and I'm pretty comfortable with explaining code-switching to people who don't get it. It's also one of the things that drew me to my husband -- on the surface he has nothing in common with me, as he's a whiteJewish guy who comes from one of the republics of the former USSR. But he also spent his childhood in different places (Austria and Italy and Belarus and Russia) and came to the US at the end. He understands being an outsider, just like I do.
posted by peacheater at 11:06 AM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I guess nowadays, I've been thinking about these things for a long time, and I'm more comfortable in my skin. I've been living in the US since I was 21 (around 8 years now). I code switch, and I know I do, but I would never dream of hiding the way I speak to my parents around my friends here. I do get comments on it, but they're usually friendly, and I'm pretty comfortable with explaining code-switching to people who don't get it. It's also one of the things that drew me to my husband -- on the surface he has nothing in common with me, as he's a whiteJewish guy who comes from one of the republics of the former USSR. But he also spent his childhood in different places (Austria and Italy and Belarus and Russia) and came to the US at the end. He understands being an outsider, just like I do.
posted by peacheater at 11:06 AM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
What? Living there for a few years doesn't make you American. She's an Indian woman who lived in the US temporarily. Would you ask why an English kid isn't called an American if they lived there during high school?
Yes? Because we're talking about hyphenate identities, which some people adopt relatively quickly and some don't.
posted by psoas at 11:46 AM on October 1, 2015
Yes? Because we're talking about hyphenate identities, which some people adopt relatively quickly and some don't.
posted by psoas at 11:46 AM on October 1, 2015
I don't think that happens the way you are imagining. It's basically an expat vs immigrant distinction - immigrants adopt a new identity, expats don't. People who live somewhere intending not to stay are expats.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:50 PM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:50 PM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh my god, just realized that this article was written by someone I went to school with (in India) -- good for her!
posted by peacheater at 9:58 AM on October 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 9:58 AM on October 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
If there had to be a popular thread on third culture kids then I'm glad someone as beautiful as Priyanka is fronting it.
I can identify with this, easily ;p
posted by infini at 10:02 AM on October 27, 2015
I can identify with this, easily ;p
posted by infini at 10:02 AM on October 27, 2015
(My love for writing blossomed then, borne of the fact that when I type instead of speaking out loud, my words carry their own weight, not tethered by an insurmountable foreignness.)
thank you for the link, lobstermitten
posted by infini at 10:04 AM on October 27, 2015
thank you for the link, lobstermitten
posted by infini at 10:04 AM on October 27, 2015
I've moved a lot, and always picked up and dropped intonations and phrasings in each place without ever changing accents. I sound slightly wrong in most places, though usually not totally wrong.
This is a great article, thanks for posting it.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:18 PM on October 27, 2015
This is a great article, thanks for posting it.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:18 PM on October 27, 2015
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