I know you already had to prove yourself beyond them...
October 2, 2015 4:29 AM Subscribe
Not to distract from the laudable sentiment, but "Facebook from the 1950s" is something didn't know I wanted to see until now.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:12 AM on October 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:12 AM on October 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
As a Millennial, this is the first time I have encountered such a vigorous and outward attack on a woman for doing her job. To my shock it was all coming from other women. I felt like I was reading Facebook from the 1950’s.
People have expectations about how "it's 2015!" or "it's not [A PAST YEAR] anymore", as if the passage of time means their values should have become universal by now.
posted by timdiggerm at 5:16 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
People have expectations about how "it's 2015!" or "it's not [A PAST YEAR] anymore", as if the passage of time means their values should have become universal by now.
posted by timdiggerm at 5:16 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think the message is less that their values should be universal and more that certain incredibly stupid values should've died out by now.
posted by Doc Ezra at 5:20 AM on October 2, 2015 [36 favorites]
posted by Doc Ezra at 5:20 AM on October 2, 2015 [36 favorites]
╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
posted by Fizz at 5:22 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 5:22 AM on October 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
This was a fun read on an otherwise gloomy day. Thanks for posting.
posted by newdaddy at 5:23 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by newdaddy at 5:23 AM on October 2, 2015
I kept reading down past the (excellent) linked post - this is a neat blog with a perspective on modern farming that I haven't heard from before. Thanks!
posted by Naib at 5:31 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Naib at 5:31 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Counterpoint.
no way could it possibly just be that a woman was alone with a man who wasn't in charge of her.
Don't forget that men just can't help themselves. It's evolutionary psychology, doncha know.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:37 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
no way could it possibly just be that a woman was alone with a man who wasn't in charge of her.
Don't forget that men just can't help themselves. It's evolutionary psychology, doncha know.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:37 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
1950s Facebook isn't really all that interesting. It's mostly people in enormous trousers posing in front of enormous cars, and people changing their profile pics to "I Like Ike" buttons. Oh, and black people have to use a separate one.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:37 AM on October 2, 2015 [51 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:37 AM on October 2, 2015 [51 favorites]
This was nice, thanks.
posted by frumiousb at 5:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by frumiousb at 5:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
@tommasz They use FaceBuch. And mods use AceFaceBook.
Badum-tish.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 5:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Badum-tish.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 5:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I appreciate the humor in this thread since that's what metafilter's for, but when I read the OP I felt many feels. One was that this woman is trying to make a difference, which is good work and should be commended. I also felt, though, that she was a bit clueless if this was the first instance she'd encountered other women being part of the problem when it comes to gender equality. THEN I also felt like there was some lingering, indelible, accidental commentary on the cultural divide in the US where agrarian life is still tied in large measure to people with red state mentalities which this woman is pushing up against and is surprised by it. This last bit made me both laugh and sigh.
posted by syncope at 6:12 AM on October 2, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by syncope at 6:12 AM on October 2, 2015 [14 favorites]
"I know you face challenges every single day and I want you to know – as a fellow woman I will not be another challenge for you."
*shakes fellow farmwife's hand*
This single statement is revolutionary in its empathy and bone-deep sense of getting it. So much of farming is based on both faith and judgment--I mean that in the sense of making call after call on any number of decisions, and you hope that they are the right ones at the right time, and sometimes they aren't, and you lose the livestock or crop, and you hurt, and you second-guess yourself, and get up the next day and carry on and for better and worse, this becomes the experience you carry. But I have seen these traits extend to dealing with people, and the unreflective confidence in one's own judgment about how she dresses or how she talks with the men or how she'd never get bloody and dirty with work, and it comes out in a frosty tone, in low-voiced comments to a friend. And it's so easy to slip into, especially when you've grown up in this still-patriarchal farming community, quietly governed by its churches' teachings on what Men and Women Are Like. It's easy to be jealous of a woman in her town clothes and makeup when you're in Muck boots and mud. And you think to yourself, where were you when the pig needed shooting and skinning and there was so much blood? Where were you when the straw needed unloading before the rain? Where were you when he cried as he dug the cat's grave? It is exactly at that moment that you most need to remember these words: "I know you face challenges every single day and I want you to know – as a fellow woman I will not be another challenge for you."
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:13 AM on October 2, 2015 [113 favorites]
*shakes fellow farmwife's hand*
This single statement is revolutionary in its empathy and bone-deep sense of getting it. So much of farming is based on both faith and judgment--I mean that in the sense of making call after call on any number of decisions, and you hope that they are the right ones at the right time, and sometimes they aren't, and you lose the livestock or crop, and you hurt, and you second-guess yourself, and get up the next day and carry on and for better and worse, this becomes the experience you carry. But I have seen these traits extend to dealing with people, and the unreflective confidence in one's own judgment about how she dresses or how she talks with the men or how she'd never get bloody and dirty with work, and it comes out in a frosty tone, in low-voiced comments to a friend. And it's so easy to slip into, especially when you've grown up in this still-patriarchal farming community, quietly governed by its churches' teachings on what Men and Women Are Like. It's easy to be jealous of a woman in her town clothes and makeup when you're in Muck boots and mud. And you think to yourself, where were you when the pig needed shooting and skinning and there was so much blood? Where were you when the straw needed unloading before the rain? Where were you when he cried as he dug the cat's grave? It is exactly at that moment that you most need to remember these words: "I know you face challenges every single day and I want you to know – as a fellow woman I will not be another challenge for you."
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:13 AM on October 2, 2015 [113 favorites]
Not to distract from the laudable sentiment, but "Facebook from the 1950s" is something didn't know I wanted to see until now.
The best thing about 1950s Facebook was that, back then, everything was still protected by the Social Media Profile Copyright Act of 1934. Thank you, John Oliver.
posted by The Bellman at 6:38 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
The best thing about 1950s Facebook was that, back then, everything was still protected by the Social Media Profile Copyright Act of 1934. Thank you, John Oliver.
posted by The Bellman at 6:38 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Thanks for posting this. I really liked reading it. Reading more now.
"I get angry that you want the latest and greatest gadgets in every aspect of your life, and then expect me to put on overalls and grab a pitchfork, and farm the way someone told you that your great Grandfather did in the 1940’s."
That one's got me really thinking about my views on farming for sure.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
"I get angry that you want the latest and greatest gadgets in every aspect of your life, and then expect me to put on overalls and grab a pitchfork, and farm the way someone told you that your great Grandfather did in the 1940’s."
That one's got me really thinking about my views on farming for sure.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
I'm surprised by the implication here that this belief -- that a woman shouldn't be alone with a married man (either in a work setting or in a social setting) -- is somehow "conservative" thinking. It seems like a outdated social norm predicated on certain ideas of the behavior of both women and men, sure, but it has never seemed to me to affect one end of the political spectrum more than the other.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:42 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:42 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Before I click, is this a link to The Onion?
Its getting harder to tell these days
posted by C.A.S. at 6:44 AM on October 2, 2015
Its getting harder to tell these days
posted by C.A.S. at 6:44 AM on October 2, 2015
No C.A.S, it's a blog that sits at the intersection of modern farming, feminism useful science and helpful information for us city slickers with a lot of ideas of what life in "flyover country" and little actual fact.
It's a good blog. Really, some of it challenges me and makes me feel that itchy irritated feeling in my gut but I think she's onto something that we all need to know about.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:50 AM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's a good blog. Really, some of it challenges me and makes me feel that itchy irritated feeling in my gut but I think she's onto something that we all need to know about.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:50 AM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
People have expectations about how "it's 2015!" or "it's not [A PAST YEAR] anymore", as if the passage of time means their values should have become universal by now.
Well, anyone who self-identifies as a progressive would certainly hope that is the case, yes.
posted by fatfrank at 6:55 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, anyone who self-identifies as a progressive would certainly hope that is the case, yes.
posted by fatfrank at 6:55 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
The implication that only a hussy would willingly be alone with a man she's not related to would've been used to discredit the saleswoman if anything untoward were to occur on such a visit, so you can see the utility to the farmers' wives of keeping that idea in circulation.
posted by milk white peacock at 6:59 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by milk white peacock at 6:59 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
When I first read this topic, all I could think about was Tom Shillue's favorite wellies and short shorts YT video "Easton & Otley College - Combine Harvester Remix." Then there's the "sexy" combine drone aerial footage from Farmers Weekly, which hosted the 2014 Farmers Apprentice challenge/bootcamp held at Easton & Otley College.
posted by plokent at 7:15 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by plokent at 7:15 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Worzel Gummidge certainly has an understanding wife.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by yellowcandy at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2015
I love this article. My extended family farms on a very small scale and a friend who is a small, cute, young woman, has this job.
If you aren't a farm person there's a lot of nuance that you are missing out on here.
The salesperson (saleswoman, here) is usually "not from town" so already an outsider.
Getting into the combine is a big deal. This is a $350,000 piece of machinery with a semi cab. It's intimidating and much more expensive than any tech mogul's sportscar.
The reason she has to get in the cab and not meet somewhere else is there are weeks/months that the farmer will be in that cab for every second of daylight and then some.
It's a small, intimate space, and once you are in the field you may be miles from home and it's not easy to drop someone off. If you kicked them out they would be a long hard walk from a road.
The age and gender stuff is an issue too. Farmers are aging so this young saleswoman is with a probably 55+ year old farmer in this intimate space for hours very isolated from anyone.
Farmers don't have sexual harassment training. They also don't listen to much bullshit, which makes up most sales calls.
I have done some sales and this is an intimate visit I would not care to try with my clients.
These women have bravery and interpersonal skills in spades.
I can also see why this is controversial.
If you need to talk to the farmer in September, you need to ride the combine.
posted by littlewater at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2015 [56 favorites]
If you aren't a farm person there's a lot of nuance that you are missing out on here.
The salesperson (saleswoman, here) is usually "not from town" so already an outsider.
Getting into the combine is a big deal. This is a $350,000 piece of machinery with a semi cab. It's intimidating and much more expensive than any tech mogul's sportscar.
The reason she has to get in the cab and not meet somewhere else is there are weeks/months that the farmer will be in that cab for every second of daylight and then some.
It's a small, intimate space, and once you are in the field you may be miles from home and it's not easy to drop someone off. If you kicked them out they would be a long hard walk from a road.
The age and gender stuff is an issue too. Farmers are aging so this young saleswoman is with a probably 55+ year old farmer in this intimate space for hours very isolated from anyone.
Farmers don't have sexual harassment training. They also don't listen to much bullshit, which makes up most sales calls.
I have done some sales and this is an intimate visit I would not care to try with my clients.
These women have bravery and interpersonal skills in spades.
I can also see why this is controversial.
If you need to talk to the farmer in September, you need to ride the combine.
posted by littlewater at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2015 [56 favorites]
a woman who was upset that a young, presumably attractive female, made a sales call to the farm – and rode in the cab of the combine with the farmer
So, to take this line of thinking to it's "logical" conclusion...what exactly do they think was actually going on here?
I'm a city boy, so forgive me, but...Aren't combines large, moving, potentially dangerous objects that need to travel in straight lines? Are most farmers acrobats? Do they have a supernatural ability to focus?
Now, if they got out of the cab and started walking hand-in-hand into the wheat field...
posted by PlusDistance at 7:27 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
So, to take this line of thinking to it's "logical" conclusion...what exactly do they think was actually going on here?
I'm a city boy, so forgive me, but...Aren't combines large, moving, potentially dangerous objects that need to travel in straight lines? Are most farmers acrobats? Do they have a supernatural ability to focus?
Now, if they got out of the cab and started walking hand-in-hand into the wheat field...
posted by PlusDistance at 7:27 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
That post was so very sweet and made me happy. It's about taking personal responsibility and not lashing out with blame at everyone else. And being kind instead. If her husband misbehaves, it's her husband's fault. If she feels insecure, it's between her and her husband.
posted by bleep at 7:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by bleep at 7:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Oh, great, plokent: now you've sent me down the rabbit hole to Farm Safety Is The Key.
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:34 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:34 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Can we maybe knock off the haha people who work in agriculture are funny hicks stuff? It's really gross.
posted by neroli at 7:37 AM on October 2, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by neroli at 7:37 AM on October 2, 2015 [14 favorites]
Great post, thank you! The comments there are also worth reading. Just one thing: linking to the front page of the blog might not be super great for posterity; shouldn't the link point here instead?
posted by WCWedin at 7:38 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by WCWedin at 7:38 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Couple comments removed. "I think some of the concerns about this are understandable" is a totally okay point to make if you want to, but dressing it all up as a long-form sarcastic "I sure love it that [thing I don't actually like]" thing isn't going to make for good discussion.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:41 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:41 AM on October 2, 2015
....aaaand I just realized why they're called combine harvesters. Wow, sometimes I'm slow.
posted by I-baLL at 7:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by I-baLL at 7:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
shouldn't the link point here instead?
Fixed!
posted by cortex at 7:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fixed!
posted by cortex at 7:45 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Doesn't have anything to do with the article. Just seeing the word "combine" repeated made it click in my head.)
posted by I-baLL at 7:45 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by I-baLL at 7:45 AM on October 2, 2015
This is almost like a Harry Enfield sketch waiting to be written:
Agriculture is one of the most demanding, yet rewarding means of production, survival and commerce, particularly in aiding the well-being of any burgeoning nation-state. Here we find one typical setting, featuring all the necessary resources and equipment for ensuring a bountiful, lucrative harvest.
But wait, what's this? Oh, no - a woman!
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:47 AM on October 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Agriculture is one of the most demanding, yet rewarding means of production, survival and commerce, particularly in aiding the well-being of any burgeoning nation-state. Here we find one typical setting, featuring all the necessary resources and equipment for ensuring a bountiful, lucrative harvest.
But wait, what's this? Oh, no - a woman!
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:47 AM on October 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Eesh. I clicked this thinking it would be "to the woman getting in a vehicle alone with my husband, someone who in his day to day life has a lot of power over the people he works with and expects to get what he wants from people around him, and who is almost definitely physically stronger than you, I bet your job is scary as hell at times and I'm glad to say my husband will not be part of the problem because he rules and will treat you like the actual human being you are."
It wasn't that at all :( it was "I don't think you should be slut shamed for doing your job," I guess?
posted by town of cats at 8:02 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
It wasn't that at all :( it was "I don't think you should be slut shamed for doing your job," I guess?
posted by town of cats at 8:02 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm a city boy, so forgive me, but...Aren't combines large, moving, potentially dangerous objects that need to travel in straight lines? Are most farmers acrobats? Do they have a supernatural ability to focus?
When harvesting you're really not moving much faster than a brisk walking pace. A combine is very heavy on soft ground and tends to keep going in a relatively straight line all by itself. There's a few feet of slop as you need to overlap the header with the previous pass. Plenty of people read, do crosswords, surf the internet, etc. My grandmother used to knit and sew.
And all farmers are acrobats -- I once walked in on my grandfather dangling headfirst into the bowels of a combine, trying to grab a bolt without putting his weight on the sieves and potentially damaging something. He couldn't quite make it but scrawny 8 year old me could if he held me by my ankles.
And the most surprising thing about this story is that there was room in the cab. Usually there's a few gallons of water and coffee (gallons of coffee), a cooler and at least one dog. During harvest you're in that cab for at least 10 hours a day, stopping only a couple times for lunch. dinner and the occasional bathroom break.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:12 AM on October 2, 2015 [18 favorites]
When harvesting you're really not moving much faster than a brisk walking pace. A combine is very heavy on soft ground and tends to keep going in a relatively straight line all by itself. There's a few feet of slop as you need to overlap the header with the previous pass. Plenty of people read, do crosswords, surf the internet, etc. My grandmother used to knit and sew.
And all farmers are acrobats -- I once walked in on my grandfather dangling headfirst into the bowels of a combine, trying to grab a bolt without putting his weight on the sieves and potentially damaging something. He couldn't quite make it but scrawny 8 year old me could if he held me by my ankles.
And the most surprising thing about this story is that there was room in the cab. Usually there's a few gallons of water and coffee (gallons of coffee), a cooler and at least one dog. During harvest you're in that cab for at least 10 hours a day, stopping only a couple times for lunch. dinner and the occasional bathroom break.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:12 AM on October 2, 2015 [18 favorites]
A lot of modern farm machinery can have D-GPS autopilots, pre-laid field tracks, and coordinate load transfer with their associated trailers. In short, you probably could take sufficient time off, if you were so inclined.
posted by cromagnon at 8:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cromagnon at 8:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
There isn't a head in a combine? Surely a small water closet or even just a chemical toilet would help save valuable time by reducing the number of times that the farmer has to stop everything so that he or she can pee? Or maybe I'm being naive, and farmers have already leapfrogged that solution and gone straight to catheters.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:34 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:34 AM on October 2, 2015
I'm a city boy, so forgive me, but...Aren't combines large, moving, potentially dangerous objects that need to travel in straight lines? Are most farmers acrobats? Do they have a supernatural ability to focus?
ALSO! All sorts of farming equipment has GPS in it now! You can teach the computer where the edges of your field are and it will basically drive itself. You need to pay attention at the turns, obviously, but ... on preview, cromagnon beat me to it.
This is one of the things I learned on my field trip for work. The other thing was that my Indiana coworkers are casually WAY more religious than anyone in the rest of the company, including the guy who has recruited people from church to work in lab. One coworker mentioned that she ended up in IN because her husband moved here to work for Campus Crusade For Christ (crap, it wasn't that, it was some other similar org) like that wasn't a terrifying setup worth moving to Indiana for. I enjoyed working in the field with these folks. They had no problem with men and women sharing the small cab of a pickup to get to the field. They were lovely modern scientific people who worked day in and out on the cutting edge of GMO technologies. But I was very careful not to discuss religious (or football) with them.
posted by maryr at 8:34 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
ALSO! All sorts of farming equipment has GPS in it now! You can teach the computer where the edges of your field are and it will basically drive itself. You need to pay attention at the turns, obviously, but ... on preview, cromagnon beat me to it.
This is one of the things I learned on my field trip for work. The other thing was that my Indiana coworkers are casually WAY more religious than anyone in the rest of the company, including the guy who has recruited people from church to work in lab. One coworker mentioned that she ended up in IN because her husband moved here to work for Campus Crusade For Christ (crap, it wasn't that, it was some other similar org) like that wasn't a terrifying setup worth moving to Indiana for. I enjoyed working in the field with these folks. They had no problem with men and women sharing the small cab of a pickup to get to the field. They were lovely modern scientific people who worked day in and out on the cutting edge of GMO technologies. But I was very careful not to discuss religious (or football) with them.
posted by maryr at 8:34 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm a city boy, so forgive me, but...Aren't combines large, moving, potentially dangerous objects that need to travel in straight lines? Are most farmers acrobats? Do they have a supernatural ability to focus?
Most modern ag vehicles have a second seat in the cab, so the farmer won't necessarily be distracted. Beyond that, harvester headers have built-in row crop tracking systems. Line up the header on the row crop, and the machine will keep itself aligned to the row as it harvests. Yes, lots of ag vehicles use GPS, but when you're harvesting, sensing and following the row is more accurate.
Source: Am an engineer in a cotton harvester factory.
posted by TrialByMedia at 8:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
Most modern ag vehicles have a second seat in the cab, so the farmer won't necessarily be distracted. Beyond that, harvester headers have built-in row crop tracking systems. Line up the header on the row crop, and the machine will keep itself aligned to the row as it harvests. Yes, lots of ag vehicles use GPS, but when you're harvesting, sensing and following the row is more accurate.
Source: Am an engineer in a cotton harvester factory.
posted by TrialByMedia at 8:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
There isn't a head in a combine? Surely a small water closet or even just a chemical toilet would help save valuable time by reducing the number of times that the farmer has to stop everything so that he or she can pee? Or maybe I'm being naive, and farmers have already leapfrogged that solution and gone straight to catheters.
Here's two people sitting in a late model combine cab. Sure you could build a chemical toilet into the seat but would you want to spend all day sitting in what's now essentially a porta-potty when you can just stop for 5 minutes and take care of nature's business like a real farmer?
posted by nathan_teske at 8:48 AM on October 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Here's two people sitting in a late model combine cab. Sure you could build a chemical toilet into the seat but would you want to spend all day sitting in what's now essentially a porta-potty when you can just stop for 5 minutes and take care of nature's business like a real farmer?
posted by nathan_teske at 8:48 AM on October 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I clicked this thinking it would be "...I bet your job is scary as hell at times..."
Not to single you out for your assumptions, toc, but I think voices like hers are valuable in a lot of ways, but in particular for challenging outsider assumptions about women and feminism outside of certain mainstream (e.g. urban, white collar) contexts.
I've mentioned this before, but one thing I tend to keep quite about on Metafilter is my own personal disconnect from the "everpresent fear" (of harassment, of assault) narrative that is said to characterize women's experiences. And I hope I can phrase this in a way that in nowise discredits or challenges anyone else's perceptions or experience, or the importance of addressing the issues of harassment and assault! But those experiences are not always the #1 concern of women in environments that "generic you" might find scary. I'm not a farmer myself, but I did grow up in farm country, with farm relatives, and currently have several friends who live on farms and/or work in the ag industry. And yeah, a more primary concern to women in the agricultural industry is respect more than physical safety from assault.
Indeed, that's probably the subject for a separation discussion: whether the pervasive tough-girl, not afraid of nothin' attitude (which is partly a response to the problem of "can't get no respect") actually gets in the way of a serious look at gender issues such as harassment or assault in rural settings.
posted by drlith at 9:02 AM on October 2, 2015 [17 favorites]
Not to single you out for your assumptions, toc, but I think voices like hers are valuable in a lot of ways, but in particular for challenging outsider assumptions about women and feminism outside of certain mainstream (e.g. urban, white collar) contexts.
I've mentioned this before, but one thing I tend to keep quite about on Metafilter is my own personal disconnect from the "everpresent fear" (of harassment, of assault) narrative that is said to characterize women's experiences. And I hope I can phrase this in a way that in nowise discredits or challenges anyone else's perceptions or experience, or the importance of addressing the issues of harassment and assault! But those experiences are not always the #1 concern of women in environments that "generic you" might find scary. I'm not a farmer myself, but I did grow up in farm country, with farm relatives, and currently have several friends who live on farms and/or work in the ag industry. And yeah, a more primary concern to women in the agricultural industry is respect more than physical safety from assault.
Indeed, that's probably the subject for a separation discussion: whether the pervasive tough-girl, not afraid of nothin' attitude (which is partly a response to the problem of "can't get no respect") actually gets in the way of a serious look at gender issues such as harassment or assault in rural settings.
posted by drlith at 9:02 AM on October 2, 2015 [17 favorites]
Thanks, people, for filling in my ignorance about combines. I didn't mean to be disparaging about farmers -- it just seemed to me that the cab of a combine isn't exactly conducive to a romantic tryst.
posted by PlusDistance at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by PlusDistance at 9:03 AM on October 2, 2015
Lots of dates happen on tractors.
posted by littlewater at 9:06 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by littlewater at 9:06 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
fellow woman
*tucks phrase into satchel of superficial oxymorons*
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:11 AM on October 2, 2015
*tucks phrase into satchel of superficial oxymorons*
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:11 AM on October 2, 2015
Some of us from the deep Southwest were brought up knowing exactly about sexual subtexts and combines.
posted by Devonian at 9:14 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 9:14 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I also ended up reading several other posts in this blog as well as they (great) one posted and enjoyed them all. I'm not from the country but have worked in agricultural research occasionally (I'm a kiwi, it's almost inevitable) so have some small clues about how it all works. The author has interesting things to say and her writing is engaging. I'm not sure if I'll go back to read more in the future, but that says more about my short attention span and lack of follow through than about the blog itself.
posted by shelleycat at 9:26 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by shelleycat at 9:26 AM on October 2, 2015
People have expectations about how "it's 2015!" or "it's not [A PAST YEAR] anymore", as if the passage of time means their values should have become universal by now.
See, here's the problem I have with a rejoinder like this. Yes, "It's 2015" can seem, in certain contexts, cliched and annoying and irritating and whatever the hell else. But when I read a black woman say that "This is 2015, and this just cannot happen again" in regard to a Napa wine tour company that marched her and the other members of her book club off a tour train and delivered them over to waiting cops in the plain view of everyone else on the train like they were perps merely for the act of Laughing Loudly While Black, I have to agree wholeheartedly with her that yes, it's 2015 and this goddamn shit shouldn't still be happening. Same with this woman writing about woman sales reps being judgey-Mc-judged for being alone with a married man. Same about almost all the other dinosaur-bone ossified patriarchal bullshit values that still move underneath almost every damn social interaction in the USA. Yes, it's 2015. This shit shouldn't be happening. And the fact that it still is happening -- that bothers me a hell of a lot more than whether my little annoyance antennae are aquiver about someone saying it, over and over again.
posted by blucevalo at 9:27 AM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]
See, here's the problem I have with a rejoinder like this. Yes, "It's 2015" can seem, in certain contexts, cliched and annoying and irritating and whatever the hell else. But when I read a black woman say that "This is 2015, and this just cannot happen again" in regard to a Napa wine tour company that marched her and the other members of her book club off a tour train and delivered them over to waiting cops in the plain view of everyone else on the train like they were perps merely for the act of Laughing Loudly While Black, I have to agree wholeheartedly with her that yes, it's 2015 and this goddamn shit shouldn't still be happening. Same with this woman writing about woman sales reps being judgey-Mc-judged for being alone with a married man. Same about almost all the other dinosaur-bone ossified patriarchal bullshit values that still move underneath almost every damn social interaction in the USA. Yes, it's 2015. This shit shouldn't be happening. And the fact that it still is happening -- that bothers me a hell of a lot more than whether my little annoyance antennae are aquiver about someone saying it, over and over again.
posted by blucevalo at 9:27 AM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]
I liked this, but I did stumble a bit when she mentioned that her husband's mother had raised him to act like a grown up human that could control himself. Maybe he was raised by a single mother, but if not, it's also probably true that it was his mother that did a lot of instilling values in his young life. Still, hopefully in more and more families today it'd be more accurate to say that his parents raised him right.
Metafilter (especially threads about people like Kim Kardashian) has led me to try to be more supportive of women that are different from me, and it's been enlightening to realize how much I hadn't been doing that before. Go blogger for preaching solidarity.
posted by ldthomps at 9:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Metafilter (especially threads about people like Kim Kardashian) has led me to try to be more supportive of women that are different from me, and it's been enlightening to realize how much I hadn't been doing that before. Go blogger for preaching solidarity.
posted by ldthomps at 9:41 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
My aunt would have been pissed if my uncle let anyone ride in the combine with him. That thing was a death trap. He rolled it more than once trying to eke out a little bit more acreage on their hilly farm. (See also: Rolling the tractor; farm injuries; fingers lost to bailer.)
posted by klangklangston at 9:54 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 9:54 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Everything I know about combines I learned from Cynthia Kadohata's excellent National Book Award-winning middle-grade novel The Thing About Luck.
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:15 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by sunset in snow country at 10:15 AM on October 2, 2015
The comments on that blog are among the best I've seen on any blog.
posted by jamjam at 10:29 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 10:29 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wait a second, does "taking care of nature's business" mean pissing in Our Nation's Food Supply?!
posted by nequalsone at 10:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nequalsone at 10:32 AM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
You don't want to know what kind of bullshit they use as fertilizer. Hint: it's literally bullshit.
posted by nathan_teske at 10:36 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 10:36 AM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Here's two people sitting in a late model combine cab.
So "manspreading" isn't just a big city public transport thing.
posted by Laura in Canada at 10:39 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
So "manspreading" isn't just a big city public transport thing.
posted by Laura in Canada at 10:39 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Every farmer/tractor driver knows that a toolbox doubles as an extra seat in a single driver cab - as in Nizlopi's JCB Song.
posted by plokent at 10:59 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by plokent at 10:59 AM on October 2, 2015
Here's two people sitting in a late model combine cab.
Yeah, not a lot of room for a head in there. I was envisioning something more like the cab of a long-distance big rig than that of a piece of earthmoving equipment, I guess.
…when you can just stop for 5 minutes and take care of nature's business like a real farmer?
This also is a good point. Derail over.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:07 AM on October 2, 2015
Yeah, not a lot of room for a head in there. I was envisioning something more like the cab of a long-distance big rig than that of a piece of earthmoving equipment, I guess.
…when you can just stop for 5 minutes and take care of nature's business like a real farmer?
This also is a good point. Derail over.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:07 AM on October 2, 2015
Well at least there is a big dome or something to keep all the bird poop out, right? Cause that stuff can give you the flu.
(Sorry if this is a derail, but does anyone remember how they "flushed" some reservoir of drinking water because some drunk guy peed in it?)
I thought the post was Great! so I was checking out the rest of the blog and was disappointed to find: there is no such thing as "Big Agriculture," Mansanto is not a problem and their decisions do not impose on how farms are managed, we are feeding the world with our increased yields from GMO crops, overuse of hormones is not a problem because it is illegal, "All birds are treated humanely and live in clean, safe environments - cage or no cage," labeling GMO foods is bad for the consumer, etc. I realize that some of this stuff is debatable and to make it as a farmer, you're going to have to make some tough decisions, but this comes off as goofy romanticizing or even willful ignorance of the problems of modern industrial agriculture. I guess I don't really have a point with this, and kind of feel like a jerk for pointing it out because I don't want to take away from how good the original post was.
posted by nequalsone at 11:17 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Sorry if this is a derail, but does anyone remember how they "flushed" some reservoir of drinking water because some drunk guy peed in it?)
I thought the post was Great! so I was checking out the rest of the blog and was disappointed to find: there is no such thing as "Big Agriculture," Mansanto is not a problem and their decisions do not impose on how farms are managed, we are feeding the world with our increased yields from GMO crops, overuse of hormones is not a problem because it is illegal, "All birds are treated humanely and live in clean, safe environments - cage or no cage," labeling GMO foods is bad for the consumer, etc. I realize that some of this stuff is debatable and to make it as a farmer, you're going to have to make some tough decisions, but this comes off as goofy romanticizing or even willful ignorance of the problems of modern industrial agriculture. I guess I don't really have a point with this, and kind of feel like a jerk for pointing it out because I don't want to take away from how good the original post was.
posted by nequalsone at 11:17 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
For anyone who doesn't know combines are called that because they combine cutting with threshing which used to be separate operations. Threshing is something that a hundred years ago was done by traveling crews.
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The: " Surely a small water closet or even just a chemical toilet would help save valuable time by reducing the number of times that the farmer has to stop everything so that he or she can pee? "
Maintenance on the bathroom would take more time than just stopping for a couple minutes.
posted by Mitheral at 12:39 PM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The: " Surely a small water closet or even just a chemical toilet would help save valuable time by reducing the number of times that the farmer has to stop everything so that he or she can pee? "
Maintenance on the bathroom would take more time than just stopping for a couple minutes.
posted by Mitheral at 12:39 PM on October 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Anyone interested in wheat harvesting (exciting!) should check out the documentary The Great American Wheat Harvest. The documentary follows a custom harvesting crew, the modern version of the threshing crews Mitheral mentions in the post above mine. Disclaimer: A lot of this was shot around my hometown and involves people I know.
posted by nathan_teske at 2:35 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nathan_teske at 2:35 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've never driven a combine, but I'd assume peeing is done just like on other heavy equipment. If it is an emergency you stop wherever you are, but normally you just find a good point to pause and take a quick break. And given the descriptions above about how modern combines will follow a row, I'll bet most peeing is done standing on the walkway while the machine moves down the row.
I'm surprised by the implication here that this belief -- that a woman shouldn't be alone with a married man (either in a work setting or in a social setting) -- is somehow "conservative" thinking. It seems like a outdated social norm predicated on certain ideas of the behavior of both women and men, sure, but it has never seemed to me to affect one end of the political spectrum more than the other.
I'm in a field where "let's get a beer" is a normal way to have an informal meeting, but that's an invitation that is a lot more fraught for women, and I know a lot of men who simply will not go and have a beer alone with a woman who is not their wife. There are a lot of informal meeting places like that (including the cab of a combine) that serve as barriers.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:24 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised by the implication here that this belief -- that a woman shouldn't be alone with a married man (either in a work setting or in a social setting) -- is somehow "conservative" thinking. It seems like a outdated social norm predicated on certain ideas of the behavior of both women and men, sure, but it has never seemed to me to affect one end of the political spectrum more than the other.
I'm in a field where "let's get a beer" is a normal way to have an informal meeting, but that's an invitation that is a lot more fraught for women, and I know a lot of men who simply will not go and have a beer alone with a woman who is not their wife. There are a lot of informal meeting places like that (including the cab of a combine) that serve as barriers.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:24 PM on October 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
So, to take this line of thinking to it's "logical" conclusion...what exactly do they think was actually going on here?
Obviously, that he would turn her into his comcubine.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:11 PM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]
Obviously, that he would turn her into his comcubine.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:11 PM on October 2, 2015 [10 favorites]
Shame, Alvy, shame & shame!
posted by Chitownfats at 7:23 PM on October 2, 2015
posted by Chitownfats at 7:23 PM on October 2, 2015
No, I don't think setting the combine on auto-steer and then getting out onto the walkway to pee is a good idea OR done by any farmers I know (I am a farmer in the middle of harvest here). However, male farmers could potentially just stop the combine and pee off of the walkway, while things are a little more complicated for us women.
One of the first things I had to learn as a young female farmer was how to pee in the field, because yeah, the combine is many miles from home and ain't nobody stopping to go home to the potty.
Processes mastered:
1.) Locate the least stinky, least dusty part of the combine where there aren't any moving parts that can suck in your overall straps, and find a way to squat comfortably against the tires or guards;
2.) Angle combine so that random looky-loos don't get a display of your bare ass when they come driving their pickups slowly down the grid road. Of course they are driving slowly down the grid road because they heard at coffee that "the wife" is driving combine again this year and they want to see what kind of job you're doing.
3.) Check wind direction and location of overall straps. (Nothing worse than a gust of wind blowing pee all over your overall straps at 11 am and being stuck on the combine for the next 12 hours.)
4.) Proceed with peeing and kick straw over it when you're done. Benefit of farming in a windy climate: air dry; no TP required.
Note that Step 2 is actually more complicated than it seems. One time I was combining a remote quarter of land that has no road access, so I just parked and did my business, thinking I had privacy. Pulling my pants up afterwards, I looked to my left and saw 50 head of cattle watching me with great interest from the pasture. Looking to my right, I saw that my neighbour had rolled through the next field with his swather and was watching with embarassed interest.
posted by bluebelle at 8:55 PM on October 3, 2015 [10 favorites]
One of the first things I had to learn as a young female farmer was how to pee in the field, because yeah, the combine is many miles from home and ain't nobody stopping to go home to the potty.
Processes mastered:
1.) Locate the least stinky, least dusty part of the combine where there aren't any moving parts that can suck in your overall straps, and find a way to squat comfortably against the tires or guards;
2.) Angle combine so that random looky-loos don't get a display of your bare ass when they come driving their pickups slowly down the grid road. Of course they are driving slowly down the grid road because they heard at coffee that "the wife" is driving combine again this year and they want to see what kind of job you're doing.
3.) Check wind direction and location of overall straps. (Nothing worse than a gust of wind blowing pee all over your overall straps at 11 am and being stuck on the combine for the next 12 hours.)
4.) Proceed with peeing and kick straw over it when you're done. Benefit of farming in a windy climate: air dry; no TP required.
Note that Step 2 is actually more complicated than it seems. One time I was combining a remote quarter of land that has no road access, so I just parked and did my business, thinking I had privacy. Pulling my pants up afterwards, I looked to my left and saw 50 head of cattle watching me with great interest from the pasture. Looking to my right, I saw that my neighbour had rolled through the next field with his swather and was watching with embarassed interest.
posted by bluebelle at 8:55 PM on October 3, 2015 [10 favorites]
Oh, and to address the original post:
The old boys in my rural community have accepted my farming activities and those of female ag reps with equanimity for the most part.
The looky-loos would come have a look at how my husband drives the combine too.
posted by bluebelle at 8:58 PM on October 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
The old boys in my rural community have accepted my farming activities and those of female ag reps with equanimity for the most part.
The looky-loos would come have a look at how my husband drives the combine too.
posted by bluebelle at 8:58 PM on October 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Devonian: Some of us from the deep Southwest were brought up knowing exactly about sexual subtexts and combines.
Bwahahaha! This is of course spoofing the excellent Brand New Key by Melanie that could be taken for discussing a woman's newfound sexual freedom.
But I'm loving that spoof song just the same.
posted by jillithd at 12:10 PM on October 5, 2015
Bwahahaha! This is of course spoofing the excellent Brand New Key by Melanie that could be taken for discussing a woman's newfound sexual freedom.
But I'm loving that spoof song just the same.
posted by jillithd at 12:10 PM on October 5, 2015
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But there we go.
I should stop being surprised by things like this happening in America.
posted by wakannai at 4:51 AM on October 2, 2015 [12 favorites]