The Amazing Inner Lives of Animals
October 5, 2015 10:57 AM Subscribe
We have long asked whether we are alone in the universe. But clearly we are not alone on earth. The evolution of intelligence, of empathy and complex societies, is surely more likely than we have hitherto considered.
i watched march of the penguins last night. today i am seeing all my cow orkers as emperor penguins.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:19 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Emotions are the foundation blocks of relationships and personalities. Driven by the same complex mix of emotion-inducing chemicals as ourselves, every worm, crayfish, and other invertebrate has its own unique response to its fellows and the world at large.Indeed. I'm a 100% feels-based pro-animal rights person, so anything that puts the lie to the myth of human exceptionalism all science-like is very encouraging to me. A lot of people seem to find it distressing to contemplate the notion that everything they've ever thought, felt, or sensed -- the sum total of you, to the absolute extent that you can possibly ever fathom or understand your self -- is nothing more than a large-brained mammal's perception of varying intracranial chemical reactions, but I find it deeply comforting, in that 'we are all made of stars' way. And I know that a bunch of folks here take umbrage at the practice of using the same exact words to label the results of those intracranial chemical reactions in both non-human and human animals, but I'm honestly not sure what to call, say, this, if not plain old "happiness."
That said, I did not like the elephant-trunk-butt story ("You little horror!") one bit. NO I DID NOT LIKE IT ONE BIT.
posted by divined by radio at 11:25 AM on October 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
So strong is elephant empathy that they sometimes bury their dead, and will return repeatedly to the skeleton of a deceased matriarch to fondle her tusks and bones. Indeed, an elephant’s response to death has been called “probably the strangest thing about them.” When the Amboseli matriarch Eleanor was dying, the matriarch Grace approached her, her facial glands streaming with emotion, and tried to lift her to her feet. Grace stayed with the stricken Eleanor through the night of her death, and on the third day Eleanor’s family and closest friend Maya visited the corpse. A week after the death the family returned again to express what can only be called their grief. A researcher once played the recording of a deceased elephant’s voice to its family. The creatures went wild searching for their lost relative, and the dead elephant’s daughter called for days after.Jesus. That's heartbreaking. If that researcher wasn't haunted by guilt over that, there's something wrong with them.
posted by edheil at 11:27 AM on October 5, 2015 [28 favorites]
YOU MEAN THIS TRUNK BUTT STORY?
When baby elephants are weaned they throw tantrums that rival those of the wildest two-year-old humans. One youngster became so upset with his mother that he screamed and trumpeted as he poked her with his tiny tusks. Finally, in frustration, he stuck his trunk into her anus, then turned around and kicked her. “You little horror!” thought Cynthia Moss as she watched the tantrum unfold.
no one tell the human children
posted by skrozidile at 11:37 AM on October 5, 2015 [13 favorites]
When baby elephants are weaned they throw tantrums that rival those of the wildest two-year-old humans. One youngster became so upset with his mother that he screamed and trumpeted as he poked her with his tiny tusks. Finally, in frustration, he stuck his trunk into her anus, then turned around and kicked her. “You little horror!” thought Cynthia Moss as she watched the tantrum unfold.
no one tell the human children
posted by skrozidile at 11:37 AM on October 5, 2015 [13 favorites]
Finally, in frustration, he stuck his trunk into her anus, then turned around and kicked her.
This makes a lot more sense when you become familiar with the ordinary rearing practices of elephants. Once you learn that elephant mothers ordinarily feed their young fresh feces (which has the effect of populating their microbiome with the beneficial gut flora they will need to survive as adults), both the tantrum generally and the specific behavior suddenly take on a different meaning.
This sort of thing speaks the lie to the article's claim that, "Sometimes it is the small things that best reveal shared life experience." In this example, and many others, "the small things" that strikes us most are merely the combination of our ignorance of how an animal lives and our prejudice about the implications of behaviors. In fact, "the small things" (when presented by a journalist to a mass audience) are routinely the things that create the most confusion about what animals think and feel.
It is precisely for these reasons that the scientific literature is "phrased in a neutral language." Rather than distance us from the animals, this neutral stance distances us from our own cultural taboos and hard-wired social instincts. Scholars of the natural world have misunderstood the minds of animals for hundreds of years, and the need for this dry, cool-minded approach was a hard-earned lesson. We who struggle even to understand the subtle nuances of emotion as it manifests in other human cultures should be less cavalier about how well our empathy reports to us the feelings of animals. The animals, after all, are in no position to correct or contradict us.
posted by belarius at 11:54 AM on October 5, 2015 [30 favorites]
This makes a lot more sense when you become familiar with the ordinary rearing practices of elephants. Once you learn that elephant mothers ordinarily feed their young fresh feces (which has the effect of populating their microbiome with the beneficial gut flora they will need to survive as adults), both the tantrum generally and the specific behavior suddenly take on a different meaning.
This sort of thing speaks the lie to the article's claim that, "Sometimes it is the small things that best reveal shared life experience." In this example, and many others, "the small things" that strikes us most are merely the combination of our ignorance of how an animal lives and our prejudice about the implications of behaviors. In fact, "the small things" (when presented by a journalist to a mass audience) are routinely the things that create the most confusion about what animals think and feel.
It is precisely for these reasons that the scientific literature is "phrased in a neutral language." Rather than distance us from the animals, this neutral stance distances us from our own cultural taboos and hard-wired social instincts. Scholars of the natural world have misunderstood the minds of animals for hundreds of years, and the need for this dry, cool-minded approach was a hard-earned lesson. We who struggle even to understand the subtle nuances of emotion as it manifests in other human cultures should be less cavalier about how well our empathy reports to us the feelings of animals. The animals, after all, are in no position to correct or contradict us.
posted by belarius at 11:54 AM on October 5, 2015 [30 favorites]
Well, I certainly want my child to have the beneficial gut flora they will need to survive as adults.
And it's hardly the most disgusting thing we'll be called on to do as new parents.
posted by Naberius at 12:16 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
And it's hardly the most disgusting thing we'll be called on to do as new parents.
posted by Naberius at 12:16 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, I certainly want my child to have the beneficial gut flora they will need to survive as adults.
Step 1. Find an available elephant...
posted by Wolfdog at 12:29 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Step 1. Find an available elephant...
posted by Wolfdog at 12:29 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's well recognised that developing a theory of mind (that others are more than just animated piles of meat) is an important part of child development. Containing the bounds of that theory seems equally important to me.
I have occasionally conducted a thought experiment with my kids as they grow up: Imagine I'm making a robot vacuum cleaner. It turns out that having it blunder randomly from obstacle to obstacle is pretty much as effective as, and much easier than, trying to build in some sophisticated navigation system. If I now want to get it to recharge itself, a similarly simple solution is just to have it try to head for its charging station occasionally - there's a good chance it will be able to get there from some place it eventually blunders into. I can improve that slightly by having the time between attempts reduce on each attempt so that if it fails it'll try more often, to improve the chances of success before complete battery failure. So now we have a very simple machine that on observation will seem to get "hungrier" and if it fails to find "food" will try harder and harder, becoming more and more "agitated," until it eventually seems to "panic" before finally expiring. Should we have sympathy for its plight? Empathy? We probably will, to some extent.
Responses to this very occasional experiment have evolved interestingly over the years but haven't yet involved actual violence to my person :)
Anyway, the point is that between me and that vacuum cleaner there's a whole mess (I hesitate to say spectrum, or continuum - it's much more complicated) of different types of mind, some of which can be considered likely to be self aware. So there's a good reason I don't eat elephants or dolphins. To be on the safe side, I don't eat squid or octopus or dogs or a bunch of other things that are more easily available. I've spent enough time with sheep and chickens not to be quite so worried about them. And while I probably wouldn't eat that vacuum cleaner, I'd happily dismantle it for parts even if it still had charge in its battery.
posted by merlynkline at 12:40 PM on October 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
I have occasionally conducted a thought experiment with my kids as they grow up: Imagine I'm making a robot vacuum cleaner. It turns out that having it blunder randomly from obstacle to obstacle is pretty much as effective as, and much easier than, trying to build in some sophisticated navigation system. If I now want to get it to recharge itself, a similarly simple solution is just to have it try to head for its charging station occasionally - there's a good chance it will be able to get there from some place it eventually blunders into. I can improve that slightly by having the time between attempts reduce on each attempt so that if it fails it'll try more often, to improve the chances of success before complete battery failure. So now we have a very simple machine that on observation will seem to get "hungrier" and if it fails to find "food" will try harder and harder, becoming more and more "agitated," until it eventually seems to "panic" before finally expiring. Should we have sympathy for its plight? Empathy? We probably will, to some extent.
Responses to this very occasional experiment have evolved interestingly over the years but haven't yet involved actual violence to my person :)
Anyway, the point is that between me and that vacuum cleaner there's a whole mess (I hesitate to say spectrum, or continuum - it's much more complicated) of different types of mind, some of which can be considered likely to be self aware. So there's a good reason I don't eat elephants or dolphins. To be on the safe side, I don't eat squid or octopus or dogs or a bunch of other things that are more easily available. I've spent enough time with sheep and chickens not to be quite so worried about them. And while I probably wouldn't eat that vacuum cleaner, I'd happily dismantle it for parts even if it still had charge in its battery.
posted by merlynkline at 12:40 PM on October 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
merlynkline: you're describing the essential idea behind Braitenberg Vehicles
Grey Walter's tortoises are a similar take on the same concept.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:42 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Grey Walter's tortoises are a similar take on the same concept.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:42 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
No other animal has religion, 'property rights' or fast food. There's no way we are anywhere near the most intelligent.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:53 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:53 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
leotrotsky: Ha! Thanks :)
If you, e.g., put rats in a cage with a few buttons that when pressed in the right sequence will deliver food then they'll learn fairly complex sequences to get food quite quickly. If you do the same thing except have the delivery of food random they'll develop complex repetitive behaviour attempting to reproduce non-existent sequences. That right there is religious ritual if you ask me.
posted by merlynkline at 2:56 PM on October 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
If you, e.g., put rats in a cage with a few buttons that when pressed in the right sequence will deliver food then they'll learn fairly complex sequences to get food quite quickly. If you do the same thing except have the delivery of food random they'll develop complex repetitive behaviour attempting to reproduce non-existent sequences. That right there is religious ritual if you ask me.
posted by merlynkline at 2:56 PM on October 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
If you do the same thing except have the delivery of food random they'll develop complex repetitive behaviour attempting to reproduce non-existent sequences.
That's pretty sadistic. And wouldn't a human in the same circumstance attempt to discover a winning sequence?
posted by No Robots at 3:00 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's pretty sadistic. And wouldn't a human in the same circumstance attempt to discover a winning sequence?
posted by No Robots at 3:00 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Cow orkers, tell me more.
posted by Oyéah at 3:16 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 3:16 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's pretty sadistic.
That's psychology research labs. Well, it was back in the day when I visited my dad's; it's been more than a few years now. But I'm pretty sure they weren't just trying to torture the rats, so hopefully not actually sadistic.
And wouldn't a human in the same circumstance attempt to discover a winning sequence?
Well probably, but that's basically the point - that's religion.
posted by merlynkline at 3:16 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's psychology research labs. Well, it was back in the day when I visited my dad's; it's been more than a few years now. But I'm pretty sure they weren't just trying to torture the rats, so hopefully not actually sadistic.
And wouldn't a human in the same circumstance attempt to discover a winning sequence?
Well probably, but that's basically the point - that's religion.
posted by merlynkline at 3:16 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
For clarity, oneswellfoop suggests that animals are perhaps more intelligent than us, as evidenced by their not having religion. I counter by suggesting that some do, as evidenced by the behaviour of these rats. Such is the gravity of our discourse.
posted by merlynkline at 3:23 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by merlynkline at 3:23 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
oneswellfoop: No other animal has religion, 'property rights' or fast food.
Not even close to true.
Chimp groups have ritualistic behaviors that their troop perform, unlike those of other nearby troops, when a storm approaches. Sometimes the alpha male will strike the ground repeatedly with sticks while the others surround him in a circle. In another troop all adults might use branches, or whoop, or simply shake the saplings.
They're performaing a ritual to ease the anxieties of the oncoming storm.
It's as pure an example of ritualistic magical ceremony as I can imagine.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:09 PM on October 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
Not even close to true.
Chimp groups have ritualistic behaviors that their troop perform, unlike those of other nearby troops, when a storm approaches. Sometimes the alpha male will strike the ground repeatedly with sticks while the others surround him in a circle. In another troop all adults might use branches, or whoop, or simply shake the saplings.
They're performaing a ritual to ease the anxieties of the oncoming storm.
It's as pure an example of ritualistic magical ceremony as I can imagine.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:09 PM on October 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
Oops:
Property rights: many dogs will DESTROY!!! any other dog that comes near their favorite toy. We don't even have to leave the house to disprove this. And try to take that fresh kill away from your hypothetical perfect-socialist lion.
Fast Food: Honey ants and bees, QED.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:12 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Property rights: many dogs will DESTROY!!! any other dog that comes near their favorite toy. We don't even have to leave the house to disprove this. And try to take that fresh kill away from your hypothetical perfect-socialist lion.
Fast Food: Honey ants and bees, QED.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:12 PM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
But I'm pretty sure they weren't just trying to torture the rats, so hopefully not actually sadistic.
The researcher who played the recording of the dead elephant's voice presumably wasn't trying to torment its family either, but that was the result. Being neutral isn't good enough. Neutral humans can do horrific things. We have to try to be good. We can't always be good, and even trying to be good we can still be pretty awful. But we've got to try.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:02 AM on October 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
The researcher who played the recording of the dead elephant's voice presumably wasn't trying to torment its family either, but that was the result. Being neutral isn't good enough. Neutral humans can do horrific things. We have to try to be good. We can't always be good, and even trying to be good we can still be pretty awful. But we've got to try.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:02 AM on October 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
That's pretty sadistic. And wouldn't a human in the same circumstance attempt to discover a winning sequence?
Derren Brown did a variation on this for the last episode of trick or treat, and people behaved just like the rats.
posted by Ned G at 9:18 AM on October 6, 2015
Derren Brown did a variation on this for the last episode of trick or treat, and people behaved just like the rats.
posted by Ned G at 9:18 AM on October 6, 2015
Sometimes humans show grace and noble intent. When they do they almost match the incomperable web of life and consciousness they live in. Other creatures are more consistent in this capacity. Some completely confound with their subtlety.
posted by Oyéah at 10:35 PM on October 6, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 10:35 PM on October 6, 2015
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posted by Faint of Butt at 11:00 AM on October 5, 2015 [34 favorites]