Only a terrifying effort to get from one side of a match box to another.
November 19, 2015 10:14 PM Subscribe
One longtime resident of Williamsburg posted on Facebook that she now felt uneasy in a neighborhood where she had always felt so safe.
If, as in Paris, extremists were going to concentrate on harming the young and urbane, out enjoying stylish consumer pleasures, Williamsburg seemed to possess horrific potential as a focus of interest.
Anxiety Returns to the Surface in New York.
If, as in Paris, extremists were going to concentrate on harming the young and urbane, out enjoying stylish consumer pleasures, Williamsburg seemed to possess horrific potential as a focus of interest.
Anxiety Returns to the Surface in New York.
"Anxietists"
posted by Bugbread at 10:37 PM on November 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Bugbread at 10:37 PM on November 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Something similar happened in the 1920s. New Yorkers, especially the affluent, lived with the threat of terrorist bombings, but they carried on, erecting the luxury apartment buildings that distinguish Fifth and Park Avenues. The population also grew. And when the city fell in 1929, when men who had lost everything threw themselves from windows, it wasn’t because of violence wrought by ideologues. It was greed that shut down the party in the end.
posted by growabrain at 10:56 PM on November 19, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 10:56 PM on November 19, 2015 [14 favorites]
Unless there are certain legislative changes made, we’ll have to go back to the basics of human intelligence collection.
I hope whomever is paying her for consulting services isn't worried about getting their money's worth. One country making "certain legislative changes" isn't going to magic away strong encryption.
posted by 1adam12 at 11:07 PM on November 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
I hope whomever is paying her for consulting services isn't worried about getting their money's worth. One country making "certain legislative changes" isn't going to magic away strong encryption.
posted by 1adam12 at 11:07 PM on November 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
Yeah. And it would have been nice to have seen the NYT's very brief skepticism about government eavesdropping programs last long enough to filter from the editorial page into the news reporting. Alas no, apparently.
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:32 PM on November 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:32 PM on November 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
Perspective is everything, I guess - as of October 1, "So far in 2015, we’ve had 274 days and 294 mass shootings":
We've gone no more than eight days without one of these incidents this year. On six days in September, there were three mass shootings or more. If the initial casualty figures in Oregon hold up, that would bring the total of deaths by mass shooting this year to 380 so far, with well over 1,000 injured.posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:04 AM on November 20, 2015 [39 favorites]
And of course, there's the broader universe of nearly 10,000 people killed and 20,000 wounded in nearly 40,000 gun violence incidents so far this year.
Terror is by its very nature irrational, but for crying out loud, get a grip, already.
I've spent a fair share of time in Williamsburg. I know Williamsburg. Williamsburg is home to many friends of mine. But Williamsburg, you're no Paris.
posted by rokusan at 12:09 AM on November 20, 2015 [45 favorites]
I've spent a fair share of time in Williamsburg. I know Williamsburg. Williamsburg is home to many friends of mine. But Williamsburg, you're no Paris.
posted by rokusan at 12:09 AM on November 20, 2015 [45 favorites]
That's why they're called terrorists.
And cowardly right-wingers surrender to ISIS all across the country, letting them win.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:32 AM on November 20, 2015 [13 favorites]
And cowardly right-wingers surrender to ISIS all across the country, letting them win.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:32 AM on November 20, 2015 [13 favorites]
And cowardly right-wingers surrender to ISIS all across the country, letting them win.
They're not afraid of the real gun massacres that mandolin conspiracy sites, but they are afraid of the imaginary threat that some theoretical Muslims present.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:58 AM on November 20, 2015 [18 favorites]
They're not afraid of the real gun massacres that mandolin conspiracy sites, but they are afraid of the imaginary threat that some theoretical Muslims present.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:58 AM on November 20, 2015 [18 favorites]
*text search on posted article = London*
*text search on posted article = Troubles*
Hrm.
posted by hippybear at 1:46 AM on November 20, 2015 [13 favorites]
*text search on posted article = Troubles*
Hrm.
posted by hippybear at 1:46 AM on November 20, 2015 [13 favorites]
But Williamsburg, you're no Paris.
I thought it was just me. I was thinking "leave it to someone from Williamsburg to make terrorist attacks in Paris all about Willamisburg."
I understand being afraid. But you're several orders of magnitude more likely to be killed in a traffic accident then by terrorists. And if the terrorists scare you into staying home you're more likely to die tripping on your stairs than you would have been to be killed by terrorists. If you have no stairs you're more likely to die in your bathtub. If you have no car, no stairs, and no tub you're more likely to die choking on your food. And so on.
It's being afraid of exactly the wrong thing. Which is what they want, of course, which is another reason to try to stop being so afraid.
posted by Justinian at 2:54 AM on November 20, 2015 [37 favorites]
I thought it was just me. I was thinking "leave it to someone from Williamsburg to make terrorist attacks in Paris all about Willamisburg."
I understand being afraid. But you're several orders of magnitude more likely to be killed in a traffic accident then by terrorists. And if the terrorists scare you into staying home you're more likely to die tripping on your stairs than you would have been to be killed by terrorists. If you have no stairs you're more likely to die in your bathtub. If you have no car, no stairs, and no tub you're more likely to die choking on your food. And so on.
It's being afraid of exactly the wrong thing. Which is what they want, of course, which is another reason to try to stop being so afraid.
posted by Justinian at 2:54 AM on November 20, 2015 [37 favorites]
I am more scared of the military style policemen.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:55 AM on November 20, 2015 [59 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:55 AM on November 20, 2015 [59 favorites]
“Now people aren’t talking on Facebook and Twitter,” Ms. Khalil, now a private consultant, said. “They are communicating through apps that are encrypted, and it’s very difficult for law enforcement, because even when we get warrants and subpoenas, we still can’t get information. Unless there are certain legislative changes made, we’ll have to go back to the basics of human intelligence collection.”
In the last few days the same exact press release about NEED BACKDOORS TO ENCRYPTION!!1! has been parroted by FBI reps, security consultants, and Dianne Feinstein. At this point I assume there were lobbying groups who had a wish list at the ready waiting for a civilian attack and broadcast it immediately to their pawns, a la The Shock Doctrine. Of course, we will find out in a few months time that the Paris attacks were due to conventional intelligence failures and encryption had little to do with it. The more relevant question is why did this massive security state fail again to prevent this artack, despite being able to listen in on nearly everything and record metadata on all communications?
posted by benzenedream at 3:01 AM on November 20, 2015 [28 favorites]
In the last few days the same exact press release about NEED BACKDOORS TO ENCRYPTION!!1! has been parroted by FBI reps, security consultants, and Dianne Feinstein. At this point I assume there were lobbying groups who had a wish list at the ready waiting for a civilian attack and broadcast it immediately to their pawns, a la The Shock Doctrine. Of course, we will find out in a few months time that the Paris attacks were due to conventional intelligence failures and encryption had little to do with it. The more relevant question is why did this massive security state fail again to prevent this artack, despite being able to listen in on nearly everything and record metadata on all communications?
posted by benzenedream at 3:01 AM on November 20, 2015 [28 favorites]
The whole "console games can be used for covert communication" thing I've seen going around is quite interesting in light of the above comment.
My Spidey Sense says that there is this sudden move to grab certain, um... governances? powers? that haven't been had before, that go beyond the PATRIOT ACT...
And it's easy to confuse the NSA stuff with the whole advertising Big Data stuff... but I don't think they are the same, although I can see the NSA pinging on an individual and then demanding the Big Data about that individual being turned over to them, which would reveal all the other shit the NSA hadn't gathered on them...
We live in Interesting Times.
posted by hippybear at 3:13 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
My Spidey Sense says that there is this sudden move to grab certain, um... governances? powers? that haven't been had before, that go beyond the PATRIOT ACT...
And it's easy to confuse the NSA stuff with the whole advertising Big Data stuff... but I don't think they are the same, although I can see the NSA pinging on an individual and then demanding the Big Data about that individual being turned over to them, which would reveal all the other shit the NSA hadn't gathered on them...
We live in Interesting Times.
posted by hippybear at 3:13 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Of course, we will find out in a few months time that the Paris attacks were due to conventional intelligence failures and encryption had little to do with it.
Yip - right on queue. After Endless Demonization Of Encryption, Police Find Paris Attackers Coordinated Via Unencrypted SMS.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:16 AM on November 20, 2015 [37 favorites]
Yip - right on queue. After Endless Demonization Of Encryption, Police Find Paris Attackers Coordinated Via Unencrypted SMS.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:16 AM on November 20, 2015 [37 favorites]
Okay - guys, maybe the reason this article mentions New York so much is because this was written for THE NEW YORK TIMES, and the attacks in Paris HAVE reminded New Yorkers of the past and stirred some stuff up. Hell, one of the "let's support Paris" FACEBOOK MEMES I saw immediately following made that connection - a photo of the Eiffel Tower flying the U.S. flag captioned "this was Paris after 9/11". I think a New York Times article reflecting upon "how this is feeling like a flashback for New Yorkers" is valid, no?
Secondly - ther ARE people scared of, and in, New York right now. Hell, on the Green there's an AskMe from someone who was due to come up here for Thanksgiving but has been hearing the reports about increased security and is asking "is it safe now".
Fortunately most of the people I've talked to are not cowering in fear, nor does this article describe us. The real fear in this country, I'm afraid, is in Congress.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:25 AM on November 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
Secondly - ther ARE people scared of, and in, New York right now. Hell, on the Green there's an AskMe from someone who was due to come up here for Thanksgiving but has been hearing the reports about increased security and is asking "is it safe now".
Fortunately most of the people I've talked to are not cowering in fear, nor does this article describe us. The real fear in this country, I'm afraid, is in Congress.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:25 AM on November 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
And it's easy to confuse the NSA stuff with the whole advertising Big Data stuff... but I don't think they are the same, although I can see the NSA pinging on an individual and then demanding the Big Data about that individual being turned over to them, which would reveal all the other shit the NSA hadn't gathered on them...
If Target can determine that a teenage girl is pregnant from her loyalty card record, surely the NSA, if given vastly more detailed and intimate data on everyone and vasly more computer power, can identify, for example, individuals likely to be receptive to “radicalisation” (be this into Wahhabi Islamism or non-free-market economics), even if their GPS coordinates have never been correlated with known radicals and they have never visited radical web sites or read radical literature. They can also automatically generate psychological profiles on individuals; these can be used with longitudanal data (i.e., do the subject's recent activities betray the intention to take some non-trivial action, which could be anything from quitting their job to going on a killing spree?). Combine it with social networks, and the authorities can have a searchable graph database of individuals, along with data on what sort of pressure they most efficiently respond to; which could be very handy in operating a managed democracy without anything as crude as 20th-century totalitarianism; Occupy/Black Lives Matter-style protests could be dissipated, by very precise and deniable applications of deterrent force to individuals, before they even formed.
If/when Dominionists or actual fascists of some sort take power, then the real fun starts. (By analogy, the Australian government recently published an “anti-radicalisation” kit linking alternative music to environmental/leftist extremism; imagine if some neo-Nixonian ratfuckers take power in the US and use the NSA's mass-surveillance database to root out enemies before they actually do anything subversive or treacherous, by, say, their breakfast habits or gait patterns or whatever.)
posted by acb at 3:27 AM on November 20, 2015 [8 favorites]
After Endless Demonization Of Encryption, Police Find Paris Attackers Coordinated Via Unencrypted SMS.
Yes, not to mention that the equivalent of ISIS Weekly printed an interview with the planner (after he was known to Belgian police) where he described how easy it was to slip into Europe and set up safe houses.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:21 AM on November 20, 2015
Yes, not to mention that the equivalent of ISIS Weekly printed an interview with the planner (after he was known to Belgian police) where he described how easy it was to slip into Europe and set up safe houses.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:21 AM on November 20, 2015
Its not just fear, it's also anger, persecution, and bigotry. I'm not sure how much its happening in the United States but up in Toronto, Canada there have been a number of incidents that make me ashamed to be Canadian.
There is plenty to be afraid of, but mostly its the mentality and behaviour of certain people in the society that I am a part of.
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 4:28 AM on November 20, 2015 [25 favorites]
- Peterborough mosque arson is suspected hate crime. [CBC.ca]I am not Muslim but I am from India and as a visible minority I still have to worry about persecution and harassment. I am feeling how I felt during the initial weeks after 9/11. I'm reminded of the advice my farther and mother gave to me just after the towers collapsed. That I should be careful in public and that my sister should be cautious when she's walking around because ignorant people react badly to situations that frighten them. And because I look the way I look, I might be profiled as a terrorist or someone to be afraid of.
- Muslim women accosted on TTC, racist graffiti scrawled on GO train. [CBC.ca]
- Young Muslim Canadians on edge after string of attacks. [CBC.ca]
- TTC, GO grapple with two anti-Muslim incidents in one day. [Toronto Star]
- 'Motivated by hate': Muslim girls told not to walk alone in Toronto at night. [Globe and Mail]
There is plenty to be afraid of, but mostly its the mentality and behaviour of certain people in the society that I am a part of.
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 4:28 AM on November 20, 2015 [25 favorites]
God damn are they banging this drum hard. Flash forward to like 2050, NYT reporting earnestly that recent developments in custom firmware have prevented the government from literally reading out the contents of everyone's brain quite as easily via all the essentially-mandatory-for-participation-in-society neural implants, legislation is desperately needed.
I tell you what would make me feel safer: Maybe the nation's Paper of Record should stop helping us get really fired up for massive region-destabilizing shitshow wars of choice. They could leave off the twitchy Pavlovian undermining of the tattered remnants of our basic civil liberties bit while they're at it.
Fuckers.
posted by brennen at 4:38 AM on November 20, 2015 [39 favorites]
I tell you what would make me feel safer: Maybe the nation's Paper of Record should stop helping us get really fired up for massive region-destabilizing shitshow wars of choice. They could leave off the twitchy Pavlovian undermining of the tattered remnants of our basic civil liberties bit while they're at it.
Fuckers.
posted by brennen at 4:38 AM on November 20, 2015 [39 favorites]
Ugh what bad reporting. No one in NYC is scared or changing their behavior in the slightest. Uber was a 2.7x surge premium last night in Manhattan and every bar and subway was packed. If the shows in Williamsburg aren't sold out this weekend it'll be because the kids are taking off Monday and Tuesday to fly home for Thanksgiving early.
A Paris-scale attack wouldn't change that, either. It would take repeated, regular and successful actions to alter behavior, and I wouldn't bet that the change would be in the direction of cowering submission, either.
posted by MattD at 4:39 AM on November 20, 2015 [15 favorites]
A Paris-scale attack wouldn't change that, either. It would take repeated, regular and successful actions to alter behavior, and I wouldn't bet that the change would be in the direction of cowering submission, either.
posted by MattD at 4:39 AM on November 20, 2015 [15 favorites]
Keep Calm and Carry On.
posted by Segundus at 4:43 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 4:43 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
New York, sensing that it is no longer the center of attention at the pool party, forms a desperate plan. "HEY EVERYONE," shouts New York, "WHO WANTS TO SEE ME DO A CANNONBALL?"
....Yeah, New York City is such an attention whore, right? Not like Washington DC, or Alabama, or Louisville or....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:47 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
....Yeah, New York City is such an attention whore, right? Not like Washington DC, or Alabama, or Louisville or....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:47 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, yeah, I've spent the last two weeks in lower Manhattan. I don't exactly notice a lot of this crowd cowering and angsting on about which train to take.
I don't doubt that eventually there will be another successful terror attack in NYC. Which sucks. This is a great city and people who want to do it harm are, it should be taken as read, real assholes on a world-historical scale. It is too bad that I cannot for a second believe that, in attacking a place like this, they won't find an American cultural and political elite that is quietly thrilled to leverage their actions into a civilization which is essentially worse in every way.
posted by brennen at 4:48 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't doubt that eventually there will be another successful terror attack in NYC. Which sucks. This is a great city and people who want to do it harm are, it should be taken as read, real assholes on a world-historical scale. It is too bad that I cannot for a second believe that, in attacking a place like this, they won't find an American cultural and political elite that is quietly thrilled to leverage their actions into a civilization which is essentially worse in every way.
posted by brennen at 4:48 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think there are ways security has changed here in the past few weeks. I was at a play last night, and the security line was much more thorough than normal, and after the show, we were only allowed out one set of doors. (Normally, there are many ways you can exit a Broadway theater.) I figured that they must have had a good reason to do it that way, but it was uncomfortable and claustrophobic, and probably a fire hazard.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:50 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:50 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
it would have been nice to have seen the NYT's very brief skepticism about government eavesdropping programs last long enough to filter from the editorial page into the news reporting. Alas no, apparently.
This isn't a news report, it's Ginia Bellafante's Big City column, which is opinion, and which tends to focus on income inequality in New York City. Big City previously on Metafilter.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 4:52 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
This isn't a news report, it's Ginia Bellafante's Big City column, which is opinion, and which tends to focus on income inequality in New York City. Big City previously on Metafilter.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 4:52 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
....Yeah, New York City is such an attention whore, right? Not like Washington DC, or Alabama, or Louisville or....
I'm glad we've finally admitted that we're holding the New York Times to the same standard as the local CBS affiliate in Mobile. The Mobile article, of course, was more measured in its response to the threat of terrorism.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:17 AM on November 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm glad we've finally admitted that we're holding the New York Times to the same standard as the local CBS affiliate in Mobile. The Mobile article, of course, was more measured in its response to the threat of terrorism.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:17 AM on November 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
This isn't "The New York Times." It's a weekly opinion column "devoted to life, culture, politics and policy in New York City" that runs in the Metro section of the Sunday paper. If you want to read the Times' news reporting on the Paris attacks, including articles on skepticism about curtailing individual freedom in the wake of terrorist attacks, you can start here.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:34 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:34 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well, look: I have close family members who witnessed 9/11 pretty directly and who ended up being treated for 9/11-related PTSD. I suspect that this has been a rough week for them, and I'm going to be sensitive to that when I see them next week. I don't blame anyone for being re-traumatized by pretty traumatic stuff in the news. But from what I can tell from what they've been posting on social media, they're not reacting to that in political ways: they can separate their personal trauma from irrational and bigoted calls for a stupid political response. My sense is that the New Yorkers I know actually have a better handle on that than do some of the people where I live who don't have a lot of rational fear of being targeted by ISIS.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:46 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:46 AM on November 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
> Its not just fear, it's also anger, persecution, and bigotry. I'm not sure how much its happening in the United States but up in Toronto, Canada there have been a number of incidents that make me ashamed to be Canadian.
Hell, we've got governors and mayors and Congressmen and all other flavor of asshole politicians lining up to bray about how they're not going to accept Syrian refugees because terrorism. The mayor of Roanoke (VA) published a statement talking about the refugees and saying that the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII was a good idea then and because ISIS refugees bad now.
These are shitty, interesting times we live in.
posted by rtha at 6:24 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hell, we've got governors and mayors and Congressmen and all other flavor of asshole politicians lining up to bray about how they're not going to accept Syrian refugees because terrorism. The mayor of Roanoke (VA) published a statement talking about the refugees and saying that the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII was a good idea then and because ISIS refugees bad now.
These are shitty, interesting times we live in.
posted by rtha at 6:24 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Did you just start typing city names + "terrorism" into Google?
Well....yeah. Because the accusation was that "oh noes New York is trying to make the Paris attacks all about themselves, and look, here's a New York Times piece that proves it". My point was that there are plenty of other local news outlets that are also doing "here is how the events abroad are resonating here at home" pieces, so I don't understand why New York's instance of such is being held up for ridicule.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:31 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well....yeah. Because the accusation was that "oh noes New York is trying to make the Paris attacks all about themselves, and look, here's a New York Times piece that proves it". My point was that there are plenty of other local news outlets that are also doing "here is how the events abroad are resonating here at home" pieces, so I don't understand why New York's instance of such is being held up for ridicule.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:31 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's because the post was framed to elicit that response.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 6:47 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 6:47 AM on November 20, 2015
so I don't understand why New York's instance of such is being held up for ridicule
I think it is probably because the NYT is, by way of its audience and reach, liable to be a particularly effective vector for the kind of bullshit that makes Americans dumber about relevant questions of risk evaluation and policy. I think the "New York is talking about itself again" thing is kind of lame in the context of people having reasonable expectations that New York is a target, but I am pretty ok with holding up an egregiously irresponsible media empire for ridicule when they are carrying water for bad policy, which has been a pattern in their coverage of the Paris attacks. (Yeah, ok, so the linked article is just one lazy column with a poorly chosen source who happens to be a mouthpiece for the surveillance state. There's been plenty of this, though.)
posted by brennen at 6:49 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think it is probably because the NYT is, by way of its audience and reach, liable to be a particularly effective vector for the kind of bullshit that makes Americans dumber about relevant questions of risk evaluation and policy. I think the "New York is talking about itself again" thing is kind of lame in the context of people having reasonable expectations that New York is a target, but I am pretty ok with holding up an egregiously irresponsible media empire for ridicule when they are carrying water for bad policy, which has been a pattern in their coverage of the Paris attacks. (Yeah, ok, so the linked article is just one lazy column with a poorly chosen source who happens to be a mouthpiece for the surveillance state. There's been plenty of this, though.)
posted by brennen at 6:49 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
As noted upthread, this article gives a pretty misleading snapshot of NYC's mood in the wake of the Paris attacks. In fact, it's damn difficult to find anyone acting especially anxious here. There's a slightly heightened police presence at some of the subway stations, like Grand Central and the stations immediately before the tunnels leading to the outer boroughs; that's the only difference I've noticed at all. The subways are as packed as ever, as are the stores and the parks.
This article is another one of those weird (charitably stated) pieces that inexplicably focuses on a few people who are notable mostly for being friends of someone at the Times but not for representing any reasonable cross-section of the people who live here -- sort of like the articles about how difficult it is to find suitable decor for your second home in East Hampton.
posted by holborne at 6:50 AM on November 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
This article is another one of those weird (charitably stated) pieces that inexplicably focuses on a few people who are notable mostly for being friends of someone at the Times but not for representing any reasonable cross-section of the people who live here -- sort of like the articles about how difficult it is to find suitable decor for your second home in East Hampton.
posted by holborne at 6:50 AM on November 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
One of the Liberal campaign promises in Canada was to bring in 25,000 Syrians by the new year. Last night, Rex Murphy and the rest of the CBC were all about "Canadians want the govenment to slow down the time table for proper background checks of these people". No polling to back it up. Just what they're feeling. I mean, Syria is destroyed..who's going to be doing these new, deeper checks? Shameful.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:56 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:56 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wow, the making of fun of people expressing anxiety about terrorism in this thread is in extremely poor taste. Is the fear rational? Maybe not, but since when are fear and anxiety rational?
I live in DC, which has also been announced as a target. For me, the scary thing is the use of "soft targets" in Paris. After 9/11, a lot of people were afraid to fly, but for most people, flying is a rare enough event that it doesn't really interfere with your everyday life. But a terrorist (or a lone shooter, who, let's be honest, is also a terrorist) targeting a concert hall or a cafe or a bar on a Friday night? That is actually fairly scary. A friend and I have plans to see a movie at a big downtown movie theater this weekend, and I actually gulped a bit before buying the tickets because, yeah, having your city explicitly threatened by the same group that just inflicted terror on two big cities last week is a bit scary.
So, I guess that makes me an attention whore or someone who ... thinks they live in Paris? Or something? Feel free to mock me.
posted by lunasol at 6:56 AM on November 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
I live in DC, which has also been announced as a target. For me, the scary thing is the use of "soft targets" in Paris. After 9/11, a lot of people were afraid to fly, but for most people, flying is a rare enough event that it doesn't really interfere with your everyday life. But a terrorist (or a lone shooter, who, let's be honest, is also a terrorist) targeting a concert hall or a cafe or a bar on a Friday night? That is actually fairly scary. A friend and I have plans to see a movie at a big downtown movie theater this weekend, and I actually gulped a bit before buying the tickets because, yeah, having your city explicitly threatened by the same group that just inflicted terror on two big cities last week is a bit scary.
So, I guess that makes me an attention whore or someone who ... thinks they live in Paris? Or something? Feel free to mock me.
posted by lunasol at 6:56 AM on November 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
It would take repeated, regular and successful actions to alter behavior,
This. One the one hand, terror attacks world wide are a nearly daily occurrence. On the other, not so much in the west. And even in the west, the smaller outrages tend to fade from from our memory pretty quickly.
Anyway, in the absence of real news (or a disinclination to cover real news), it's the media's job to ginger up non-news. News that flatters the punters. I've said it before, the medias raison d'etre is to sell six packs and four by fours.
posted by BWA at 7:00 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
This. One the one hand, terror attacks world wide are a nearly daily occurrence. On the other, not so much in the west. And even in the west, the smaller outrages tend to fade from from our memory pretty quickly.
Anyway, in the absence of real news (or a disinclination to cover real news), it's the media's job to ginger up non-news. News that flatters the punters. I've said it before, the medias raison d'etre is to sell six packs and four by fours.
posted by BWA at 7:00 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the "New York is talking about itself again" thing is kind of lame in the context of people having reasonable expectations that New York is a target, but I am pretty ok with holding up an egregiously irresponsible media empire for ridicule when they are carrying water for bad policy, which has been a pattern in their coverage of the Paris attacks.
So make the complaint about "New York Times is giving into bad journalism" and not "New York City is an attention whore that is jealous of other cities' martyrdom". Those are two totally different things. And it's the latter that I'm objecting to.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:02 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
So make the complaint about "New York Times is giving into bad journalism" and not "New York City is an attention whore that is jealous of other cities' martyrdom". Those are two totally different things. And it's the latter that I'm objecting to.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:02 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
@thegrugq: The Paris attackers used Facebook, not encryption… and in an ISIS dedicated group!
Seems to directly contradict the claims in the article.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:10 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seems to directly contradict the claims in the article.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:10 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
And it's the latter that I'm objecting to.
Yeah, the piece in the FPP very much read as being of a piece with this sort of thing, that, upon reading, causes one to roll one's eyes so hard that retinal detachment seems imminent:
And while many people are concerned with global catastrophe — contemplating harrowing images of Greenland melting away and scorched earth in Los Angeles — others are just spinning wildly, like the confused leaves, to figure out what autumn in New York means for their wardrobes.
So I guess what I'm saying is that the anxiety article was pitch perfect for the NYT Style section rather than, you know, the actual news part of the paper.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:19 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the piece in the FPP very much read as being of a piece with this sort of thing, that, upon reading, causes one to roll one's eyes so hard that retinal detachment seems imminent:
And while many people are concerned with global catastrophe — contemplating harrowing images of Greenland melting away and scorched earth in Los Angeles — others are just spinning wildly, like the confused leaves, to figure out what autumn in New York means for their wardrobes.
So I guess what I'm saying is that the anxiety article was pitch perfect for the NYT Style section rather than, you know, the actual news part of the paper.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:19 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
The difference between this imaginary Williamsburg attack and Paris? The attack in Paris was perpetrated by Europeans, not some foreign fighters.
The world really wants to frame this an ISIS-state attacks hip establishments in Paris #nooneissafe. But this is more on par with a school shooting in the states w/ disaffected youths lash out at other young people. Don't give it more power than it deserves.
posted by iamck at 7:27 AM on November 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
The world really wants to frame this an ISIS-state attacks hip establishments in Paris #nooneissafe. But this is more on par with a school shooting in the states w/ disaffected youths lash out at other young people. Don't give it more power than it deserves.
posted by iamck at 7:27 AM on November 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
"Security Beefed up at Cedar Rapids Public Library"
posted by librosegretti at 7:29 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by librosegretti at 7:29 AM on November 20, 2015
what I'm saying is that the anxiety article was pitch perfect for the NYT Style section rather than, you know, the actual news part of the paper
Good thing it wasn't in the actual news part of the paper then.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:39 AM on November 20, 2015
Good thing it wasn't in the actual news part of the paper then.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 7:39 AM on November 20, 2015
iamck I think that's an unhelpful characterization.
The current evidence indicates that the Paris attacks were directed and planned by ISIS which is a de facto state and carried out by people who held ISIS's organizational equivalent of enlistments or officers' commissions. Their French or Belgian passports makes them traitors and fifth columnists as well, but doesn't change their base military status or that of their operation.
We know from the history of terrorism that this de facto state status is critical to efficacy. When al Quaeda was operating under the aegis of the Taliban government of Afghanistan it had the ability to plan and execute 9/11. When it lost that it lost the ability to carry out operations of any scale or sophistication.
It is reasonable to expect ISIS to carry out repeated, effective attacks until Putin gets done killing them, but that day doesn't look too far off, thankfully. Thereafter they'll be just about as effective as bin Laden was scurrying from one safehouse to another from 2002 to 2011.
posted by MattD at 7:40 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
The current evidence indicates that the Paris attacks were directed and planned by ISIS which is a de facto state and carried out by people who held ISIS's organizational equivalent of enlistments or officers' commissions. Their French or Belgian passports makes them traitors and fifth columnists as well, but doesn't change their base military status or that of their operation.
We know from the history of terrorism that this de facto state status is critical to efficacy. When al Quaeda was operating under the aegis of the Taliban government of Afghanistan it had the ability to plan and execute 9/11. When it lost that it lost the ability to carry out operations of any scale or sophistication.
It is reasonable to expect ISIS to carry out repeated, effective attacks until Putin gets done killing them, but that day doesn't look too far off, thankfully. Thereafter they'll be just about as effective as bin Laden was scurrying from one safehouse to another from 2002 to 2011.
posted by MattD at 7:40 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
“Now people aren’t talking on Facebook and Twitter,” Ms. Khalil, now a private consultant, said. “They are communicating through apps that are encrypted, and it’s very difficult for law enforcement, because even when we get warrants and subpoenas, we still can’t get information. Unless there are certain legislative changes made, we’ll have to go back to the basics of human intelligence collection.”
Worth noting is that this is not merely a call for backdoors in encryption but rather an endorsement for consumer illiteracy.
Ms. Khalil seems to be irritated that people have begun to understand these privately held walled gardens are in fact public venues (notwithstanding the evidence of a very casual operational methodology used by the Paris attackers) and have perhaps tailored their behavior to stop talking about their confidential matters in public venues.
I bet she also thinks it's a real tragedy when people wise up and decide to not talk to investigators without counsel!
posted by Matt Oneiros at 8:54 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Worth noting is that this is not merely a call for backdoors in encryption but rather an endorsement for consumer illiteracy.
Ms. Khalil seems to be irritated that people have begun to understand these privately held walled gardens are in fact public venues (notwithstanding the evidence of a very casual operational methodology used by the Paris attackers) and have perhaps tailored their behavior to stop talking about their confidential matters in public venues.
I bet she also thinks it's a real tragedy when people wise up and decide to not talk to investigators without counsel!
posted by Matt Oneiros at 8:54 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
This article is another one of those weird (charitably stated) pieces that inexplicably focuses on a few people who are notable mostly for being friends of someone at the Times but not for representing any reasonable cross-section of the people who live here -- sort of like the articles about how difficult it is to find suitable decor for your second home in East Hampton.
That was my take on it as well. There may be some anxious people here, but I have not run into them.
A co-worker lived in Republique until a year ago, a few blocks from the Bataclan, and knows two people who were there that night (they are ok) - our discussions have been either about Paris or very general.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:03 AM on November 20, 2015
That was my take on it as well. There may be some anxious people here, but I have not run into them.
A co-worker lived in Republique until a year ago, a few blocks from the Bataclan, and knows two people who were there that night (they are ok) - our discussions have been either about Paris or very general.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:03 AM on November 20, 2015
Judith Miller, NYT editor.
posted by benzenedream at 9:14 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by benzenedream at 9:14 AM on November 20, 2015
Cowards.
people who blow themselves to smithereens in pursuit of their ideological ends are many things but cowardly isn't one of them ... unless you want to get into a deep existential discussion.
posted by philip-random at 9:16 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
people who blow themselves to smithereens in pursuit of their ideological ends are many things but cowardly isn't one of them ... unless you want to get into a deep existential discussion.
posted by philip-random at 9:16 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm going to contradict you slightly, Megami. Without the Paris attacks, here probably would have been a higher police presence for the Jubilee but I highly doubt, having seen the previous Jubilee and other bonkers Vatican based events (JPII's death, Pope Sith Lord stepping down, etc.) that the military presence would be at the same level it is currently. I've only seen similar after the London and Madrid attacks, and I've honestly never seen it like this before. I also have never before felt an atmosphere of palpable fear on public transport here - everyone's on edge, I think we've broken the record for the number of metro closures due to (thankfully) false bomb scares, and it's sort of horrifyingly sad watching the number of side eyes garnered by anyone who dares to be a few shades darker than tan or wearing a headscarf.
But hey, meetup? :P
posted by romakimmy at 9:18 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
But hey, meetup? :P
posted by romakimmy at 9:18 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Unless there are certain legislative changes made, we’ll have to go back to the basics of human intelligence collection.”
Why, that's crazy. Social engineering has revealed any vulnerabilities in a system.
Next thing you know they'll have to hire people to collect information from sources that are open or something like talking to informants. Too much like actual work.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:35 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Why, that's crazy. Social engineering has revealed any vulnerabilities in a system.
Next thing you know they'll have to hire people to collect information from sources that are open or something like talking to informants. Too much like actual work.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:35 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
it's sort of horrifyingly sad watching the number of side eyes garnered by anyone who dares to be a few shades darker than tan or wearing a headscarf.
So much this. I've watched people switch seats or get up and leave because people who have more conspicuous dressing with: scarves, turbans, etc. sit down in a public space. It's depressing as hell and makes you angry too.
posted by Fizz at 10:56 AM on November 20, 2015
So much this. I've watched people switch seats or get up and leave because people who have more conspicuous dressing with: scarves, turbans, etc. sit down in a public space. It's depressing as hell and makes you angry too.
posted by Fizz at 10:56 AM on November 20, 2015
This Is What Our Security State Looks Like In Manhattan
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:07 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:07 AM on November 20, 2015
people who blow themselves to smithereens in pursuit of their ideological ends are many things but cowardly isn't one of them ... unless you want to get into a deep existential discussion.
This is how you got bounced off your network the last time, Mr Maher.
I happen to agree but apparently we're not allowed to think people are brave about being heteful murdering assholes; too much nuance.
posted by phearlez at 2:08 PM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is how you got bounced off your network the last time, Mr Maher.
I happen to agree but apparently we're not allowed to think people are brave about being heteful murdering assholes; too much nuance.
posted by phearlez at 2:08 PM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
but apparently we're not allowed to think people are brave about being heteful murdering assholes; too much nuance.
ISIS -- we're brave as f***, and also stupid assholes.
posted by philip-random at 2:21 PM on November 20, 2015
ISIS -- we're brave as f***, and also stupid assholes.
posted by philip-random at 2:21 PM on November 20, 2015
I should have provided the reference:
Perry White: Kent, I need a story to run with the page three sidebar. Get me everything you can on this terrorist group.posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:33 PM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Clark Kent: Right! [stops] Uh, sorry. T... terrorists?
Perry White: Get your head out of the closet, Kent! Where've you been for the past twelve hours?
Clark Kent: Home.
Perry White: Well, don't you watch television?
Clark Kent: Frankly, Mr. White, I really don't enjoy television. Too much violence. I was just reading Dickens.
Jimmy Olsen: [races in] Mr. Kent! A gang of terrorists seized the Eiffel Tower! In Paris!
Perry White: He knows where the Eiffel Tower is, Olsen! You do, don't you Kent?
Clark Kent: Yes, sir. Has anybody been hurt?
Jimmy Olsen: Well, so far the hostages are unharmed.
Clark Kent: The hostages?
Jimmy Olsen: Yeah! Terrorists! About twenty of them!
Perry White: Yeah, but that's just petty stuff. These guys claim that if the French government doesn't meet their demands, they've got a hydrogen bomb ready to level Paris.
Clark Kent: Well, geez Mr. White. That's t... terrible!
Perry White: That's why they call them "terrorists", Kent.
The four worst words in Washington are: "Something Must Be Done."
posted by OneOliveShort at 9:17 PM on November 20, 2015
posted by OneOliveShort at 9:17 PM on November 20, 2015
The four worst words in Washington are: "Something Must Be Done." "The United States Congress"
Fixed.
posted by Fizz at 5:28 AM on November 21, 2015
Fixed.
posted by Fizz at 5:28 AM on November 21, 2015
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posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:16 PM on November 19, 2015 [15 favorites]