When globalization comes home.
December 2, 2015 6:53 AM Subscribe
A Grim Bargain: Tax breaks, cheap land, and cheap labor make the American South attractive to foreign companies. Workers don't benefit.
Yet, somehow, come the elections, this will be the fault of "immigrants stealing jobs" not "CEOs getting rich screwing over workers all over the world and paying of politicians to keep the money flowing."
Who would ever imagine that workers would benefit from globalization except in some fantasy "rising tide lifts all boats" neoliberal sales pitch?
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:22 AM on December 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
Who would ever imagine that workers would benefit from globalization except in some fantasy "rising tide lifts all boats" neoliberal sales pitch?
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:22 AM on December 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
If this sort of story leads to broader recognition of the benefits of unions (as it did in the article), then, at least, it can be the start of a good thing.
posted by oddman at 7:23 AM on December 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by oddman at 7:23 AM on December 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
This is something that needs to be discussed by those who make decisions - what kind of jobs are you getting? I now cringe whenever I hear someone tout the number of jobs a new industry will bring to a poor community or state. Jobs are good, but jobs with good pay and benefits, which provide the potential for people to move up within the company and/or community are best.
I have a slogan for places that tout their "business friendliness" in an effort to lure investors and companies in at the cost of everything else -- "cheap and easy," something a politician can say with a big smile. "Come to our [city/county/state,] we're cheap and easy!" Cut out the "roadblocks" of environmental oversights, reduce the impacts of taxes, and a handful of people will benefit greatly, while the majority of local people suffer. Then wonder why the local economy isn't benefiting, despite all those tax breaks to companies. (It's even worse when raw natural goods are sold at bargain prices to lure in companies, because those natural goods aren't going anywhere, but I digress.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:24 AM on December 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
I have a slogan for places that tout their "business friendliness" in an effort to lure investors and companies in at the cost of everything else -- "cheap and easy," something a politician can say with a big smile. "Come to our [city/county/state,] we're cheap and easy!" Cut out the "roadblocks" of environmental oversights, reduce the impacts of taxes, and a handful of people will benefit greatly, while the majority of local people suffer. Then wonder why the local economy isn't benefiting, despite all those tax breaks to companies. (It's even worse when raw natural goods are sold at bargain prices to lure in companies, because those natural goods aren't going anywhere, but I digress.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:24 AM on December 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
However, I notice that James D. went from making $3.50 and hour to making $14 an hour plus (undisclosed) benefits. While I have no desire to minimize the very real struggles of low-skilled labor and I have no intention to argue that $14 an hour is a great wage, it is hard to argue that he didn't benefit.
posted by oddman at 7:25 AM on December 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by oddman at 7:25 AM on December 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
If this sort of story leads to broader recognition of the benefits of unions (as it did in the article), then, at least, it can be the start of a good thing.
However, I notice that James D. went from making $3.50 and hour to making $14 an hour plus (undisclosed) benefits. While I have no desire to minimize the very real struggles of low-skilled labor and I have no intention to argue that $14 an hour is a great wage, it is hard to argue that he didn't benefit.
It looks like he tried to take on more than his budget allowed - mortgage, insurance, light bills, baby food. It sounds like he was banking on the promised wages of $15-17, instead of the reality of going from $11 to $14. Also, the article doesn't mention what his expenses (and possible other sources of money) were.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:33 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Though many states recruit businesses with tax incentives, states in the Deep South pioneered the practice and remain aggressive users of the tool, pitching not just tax breaks but low costs and anemic union participation.Sadly, companies will likely move from one place with a newly formed union to another county or state where unions are still weak and laws further weaken those unions. Or get laws passed locally to limit the power of the newly formed union.
However, I notice that James D. went from making $3.50 and hour to making $14 an hour plus (undisclosed) benefits. While I have no desire to minimize the very real struggles of low-skilled labor and I have no intention to argue that $14 an hour is a great wage, it is hard to argue that he didn't benefit.
It looks like he tried to take on more than his budget allowed - mortgage, insurance, light bills, baby food. It sounds like he was banking on the promised wages of $15-17, instead of the reality of going from $11 to $14. Also, the article doesn't mention what his expenses (and possible other sources of money) were.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:33 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the issue is that people are so behind, financially and in terms of infrastructure, that even the leap from miserable below-minimum wages to making $11-ish (which was what he was making most of the time he was there, even after his "big" promotion) just isn't enough.
You can't raise a family on $11.75 an hour, especially in a place with no services - around here, if you have two $11.75 full time gigs, you can squeak by, but it's pretty hard. And that's in a place where you don't have to own a car - and in a place where two people can at least sometimes both have full time work. It seems like in Alabama, you're talking about one person with full time work, with luck, and their partner probably getting stuck with a patchwork of odd jobs.
Also, those are hard jobs - you worry about people's health breaking down in their forties, and you worry about the quality of medical care they can access in those kinds of rural areas.
It's wrong to keep people on wages where they'll never be able to have children if they want to be at all financially stable, or where any children they do have will eat bad food and go without ordinary necessities. Even if their wages are higher than before, or high for an immiserated area or whatever, it's wrong to keep people so poor that they can't do ordinary human things.
posted by Frowner at 7:39 AM on December 2, 2015 [31 favorites]
You can't raise a family on $11.75 an hour, especially in a place with no services - around here, if you have two $11.75 full time gigs, you can squeak by, but it's pretty hard. And that's in a place where you don't have to own a car - and in a place where two people can at least sometimes both have full time work. It seems like in Alabama, you're talking about one person with full time work, with luck, and their partner probably getting stuck with a patchwork of odd jobs.
Also, those are hard jobs - you worry about people's health breaking down in their forties, and you worry about the quality of medical care they can access in those kinds of rural areas.
It's wrong to keep people on wages where they'll never be able to have children if they want to be at all financially stable, or where any children they do have will eat bad food and go without ordinary necessities. Even if their wages are higher than before, or high for an immiserated area or whatever, it's wrong to keep people so poor that they can't do ordinary human things.
posted by Frowner at 7:39 AM on December 2, 2015 [31 favorites]
This story is just another example of previously unexamined White Privilege being brought into the open, with the attendant "Oh NOES its society's, the dirty Chinese, the terrible Government fault I am not earning what I believe I should be." His backstory is the same litany of poor life decisions, a serial unwillingness to adapt to the requirements of contemporary employment reality, and racial entitlement I see all over rural America--be it in the Deep South or in my own Midwestern backyard.
posted by Chrischris at 8:17 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Chrischris at 8:17 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
He is a machinist. He went back to school and got trained to do it. That used to be a well-paying skilled job. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, he is quite underpaid.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:20 AM on December 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 8:20 AM on December 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
This story is just another example of previously unexamined White Privilege...
I like calling out white privilege in my fellow white southerners as much as the next person. However:
Wilcox County sits in the center of Alabama’s Black Belt, a swath of dark-soiled farmland that over the previous decades had been drained of its economic blood: first with the mechanization of agricultural jobs, then with an exodus of people, finally with the shuttering of factories and mills. In a county that is 70 percent black, the historical inequities have dovetailed with a more modern inability to adapt economically. Between 2000 and 2010, Wilcox lost 30 percent of its jobs and 25 percent of its businesses. Its unemployment rate went from 8.7 percent to 26.3 percent.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:23 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I like calling out white privilege in my fellow white southerners as much as the next person. However:
Wilcox County sits in the center of Alabama’s Black Belt, a swath of dark-soiled farmland that over the previous decades had been drained of its economic blood: first with the mechanization of agricultural jobs, then with an exodus of people, finally with the shuttering of factories and mills. In a county that is 70 percent black, the historical inequities have dovetailed with a more modern inability to adapt economically. Between 2000 and 2010, Wilcox lost 30 percent of its jobs and 25 percent of its businesses. Its unemployment rate went from 8.7 percent to 26.3 percent.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:23 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Been reading about the history of rum & the Caribbean, and this reminds me of United Fruit rolling in to a country & set up a Bananna Republic, exploiting the local labor force & resources with the collusion of the local elites in power who write anti-Union laws & come up with slogans like "Right-to-Work state".
More like "Right-to-work-for-less state".
History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:31 AM on December 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
More like "Right-to-work-for-less state".
History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:31 AM on December 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
I wish I could favorite this a million times more!
posted by chainsofreedom at 8:32 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wish I could favorite this a million times more!
posted by chainsofreedom at 8:32 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
he got a job at Hyundai in Montgomery. He started at $17 per hour and ended up at $25 five years later. He bought Ralph Lauren polos and American Eagle blue jeans and a big truck. The lone downsides were the noise and rush of the city, which drove him crazy. For 208 weekends in a row, he fled Montgomery for Wilcox, where to relax he drove around at dusk looking for deer. He knew good jobs were easier to find outside rural areas, but figured this would be a compromise: He left Hyundai and began school at the community college in Clarke County, which neighbors Wilcox. He graduated in 2011 as a certified machinist.
posted by Chrischris at 8:37 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrischris at 8:37 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is a similar version of this playing out in my (not Southern) town.
Large multinational firm would like to come to down, but wants "tax incentives" to commit to the deal.
Roughly half the town is against it, roughly half for it.
But you know that if the multinational doesn't get the deal from us, there are a dozen other towns that are perfectly willing to pay out in exchange for a couple of hundred decent wage jobs.
So what's better, standing on principle or employing 250 of our fellow townsmen?
I feel like this is a just a corporate version of the "workers who stay late" discussion earlier.
So long as there are people who will sell short their economic value, be in the form of working late or agreeing not to have a union in order to get the factory, then the companies will take advantage of it.
posted by madajb at 8:45 AM on December 2, 2015
Large multinational firm would like to come to down, but wants "tax incentives" to commit to the deal.
Roughly half the town is against it, roughly half for it.
But you know that if the multinational doesn't get the deal from us, there are a dozen other towns that are perfectly willing to pay out in exchange for a couple of hundred decent wage jobs.
So what's better, standing on principle or employing 250 of our fellow townsmen?
I feel like this is a just a corporate version of the "workers who stay late" discussion earlier.
So long as there are people who will sell short their economic value, be in the form of working late or agreeing not to have a union in order to get the factory, then the companies will take advantage of it.
posted by madajb at 8:45 AM on December 2, 2015
There is a similar version of this playing out in my (not Southern) town.The only thing I can think of is getting everyone to stand on principle. I.e., getting everyone to not provide tax incentives to select companies. And the only way you get get everyone to not do something is to pass a law against it.
Large multinational firm would like to come to down, but wants "tax incentives" to commit to the deal.
Roughly half the town is against it, roughly half for it.
But you know that if the multinational doesn't get the deal from us, there are a dozen other towns that are perfectly willing to pay out in exchange for a couple of hundred decent wage jobs.
So what's better, standing on principle or employing 250 of our fellow townsmen?
I'll admit I haven't thought it all through, but are there better ways to accomplish this?
posted by Brian Puccio at 8:50 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
feel like this is a just a corporate version of the "workers who stay late" discussion earlier. So long as there are people who will sell short their economic value, be in the form of working late or agreeing not to have a union in order to get the factory, then the companies will take advantage of it.
So here's what we do: we identify the elected officials planning on voting in favor of tax breaks, loosening of restrictions against environmental damage, and anti-union laws, and then we key their cars.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:00 AM on December 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
So here's what we do: we identify the elected officials planning on voting in favor of tax breaks, loosening of restrictions against environmental damage, and anti-union laws, and then we key their cars.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:00 AM on December 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
Wouldn't it be amazing if the US became known as a country that refuses to allow foreign countries to come in and underpay its people just to make a buck?
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 9:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 9:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I started reading wondering 'when will the xenophobia and casual racism kick in?' And right there, at the midpoint almost exactly:
Now Deshler wondered how any job at Golden Dragon could lead toward the middle class. He started looking differently at the factory, noticing its quirks, resenting its features: The several dozen Chinese engineers who helped supervise the plant couldn’t speak English and lived in modular trailers on the factory grounds. The awkwardly translated Chinese slogans touting work ethic. (“One Quality escape erases All the good you have done in the past.”) The oil spills that sat on the floor; the minor injuries that piled up. Maybe, he wondered, this was why his father had long cursed Chinese-made tools, always the low-budget option at Lowe’s.
It does have alot to do with unexamined privilege, and I won't deny that, but The Thrust of this discussion is on the necessity of unions in the South, a goal that is reachable. The corporate masters of GD Copper came to Alabama for one reason, and it wasn't because of racism and xenophobia. Yes, it is frustrating that Deshler is bemoaning a state of existence that is commonplace to African Americans in his neck of the woods simply because it's news to him. But in a final tally, capitalism is eating us, all of us, regardless of the color of our skin.
Also: and then we key their cars.
YCTABuick, I'm totally with you but this fascination, nay, obsession, with keying cars is a little ... daunting. I have this vision of a revolution, CEOs lined up against a wall, the rich being eaten, etc, etc, and there you are, amidst the burn-out ruins while others are scrounging for shotgun shells and canned tomatoes, with a haunting gleam in your eye, muttering,
'A Lexus ... I've never keyed a Lexus!'
posted by eclectist at 9:32 AM on December 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
Now Deshler wondered how any job at Golden Dragon could lead toward the middle class. He started looking differently at the factory, noticing its quirks, resenting its features: The several dozen Chinese engineers who helped supervise the plant couldn’t speak English and lived in modular trailers on the factory grounds. The awkwardly translated Chinese slogans touting work ethic. (“One Quality escape erases All the good you have done in the past.”) The oil spills that sat on the floor; the minor injuries that piled up. Maybe, he wondered, this was why his father had long cursed Chinese-made tools, always the low-budget option at Lowe’s.
It does have alot to do with unexamined privilege, and I won't deny that, but The Thrust of this discussion is on the necessity of unions in the South, a goal that is reachable. The corporate masters of GD Copper came to Alabama for one reason, and it wasn't because of racism and xenophobia. Yes, it is frustrating that Deshler is bemoaning a state of existence that is commonplace to African Americans in his neck of the woods simply because it's news to him. But in a final tally, capitalism is eating us, all of us, regardless of the color of our skin.
Also: and then we key their cars.
YCTABuick, I'm totally with you but this fascination, nay, obsession, with keying cars is a little ... daunting. I have this vision of a revolution, CEOs lined up against a wall, the rich being eaten, etc, etc, and there you are, amidst the burn-out ruins while others are scrounging for shotgun shells and canned tomatoes, with a haunting gleam in your eye, muttering,
'A Lexus ... I've never keyed a Lexus!'
posted by eclectist at 9:32 AM on December 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
we identify the elected officials planning on voting in favor of tax breaks
So you're all in favor of power to the people, as long as the people only elect politicians you approve of?
posted by Candleman at 9:40 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
So you're all in favor of power to the people, as long as the people only elect politicians you approve of?
posted by Candleman at 9:40 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ugh. This isn't only happening in the South. DC's engaging in a race-to-the-bottom with tax-breaks, and is basically taking bribes to look the other way regarding environmental issues. I was suspecting that our mayor would be merely mediocre, but it's increasingly looking like she's actively poisoning the city by brokering deals that harm the public.
posted by schmod at 9:50 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by schmod at 9:50 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
it's a joke, not a very good one, dropping it now.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:52 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:52 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
You can either say "Come open shop in our area; we'll grease your palms and you won't have any union pressure", or you can say " Please come fuck our residents and our economy sideways." Functionally identical.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 9:55 AM on December 2, 2015
posted by Benny Andajetz at 9:55 AM on December 2, 2015
The corporate masters of GD Copper came to Alabama for one reason, and it wasn't because of racism and xenophobia.
True, but the reason they did come--the ability to pay below average wages to a docile, largely undereducated (and geographically static) population--is the result of centuries of systemic racism practiced by and upon the citizens of Wilcox County, AL.
US News tells me that the Wilcox Co. Public High School student population is literally 100% African American. Which led me to wonder: where are all the white kids going? Answer: Wilcox Academy: Of 278 non-prekindergarten students enrolled in the 2011-2012 school year, 276 were white.
posted by Chrischris at 10:00 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
True, but the reason they did come--the ability to pay below average wages to a docile, largely undereducated (and geographically static) population--is the result of centuries of systemic racism practiced by and upon the citizens of Wilcox County, AL.
US News tells me that the Wilcox Co. Public High School student population is literally 100% African American. Which led me to wonder: where are all the white kids going? Answer: Wilcox Academy: Of 278 non-prekindergarten students enrolled in the 2011-2012 school year, 276 were white.
posted by Chrischris at 10:00 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
is the result of centuries of systemic racism practiced by and upon the citizens of Wilcox County, AL.
Victim and victimizer.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:13 AM on December 2, 2015
Victim and victimizer.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:13 AM on December 2, 2015
This story is just another example of previously unexamined White Privilege being brought into the open, with the attendant "Oh NOES its society's, the dirty Chinese, the terrible Government fault I am not earning what I believe I should be." His backstory is the same litany of poor life decisions, a serial unwillingness to adapt to the requirements of contemporary employment reality, and racial entitlement I see all over rural America--be it in the Deep South or in my own Midwestern backyard.
So we've reached the point where we'll shit on the downtrodden and exploited because they don't meet the color requirement of our identity politics? I'm appalled, but I guess I'm naive to be shocked.
Just wow. The divide-and-conquer method of weakening the labor movement is supposed to approach from the other direction.
posted by Willy Wombat at 10:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
So we've reached the point where we'll shit on the downtrodden and exploited because they don't meet the color requirement of our identity politics? I'm appalled, but I guess I'm naive to be shocked.
Just wow. The divide-and-conquer method of weakening the labor movement is supposed to approach from the other direction.
posted by Willy Wombat at 10:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I did enjoy the father who supported his family for twenty years as a unionized postal worker saying that unions weren't worth the trouble.
posted by theclaw at 10:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by theclaw at 10:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
Also, hydropsyche, the article does focus on a James Deshler, who is pictured in said article, and looks to be fairly Caucasian.
I get that, and judge the one dude all you want. I think it's too bad that the article focused on him (although, seriously, he's a machinist. He totally should be making more).
But the reason that there are no jobs there, and the reason they can get away with paying such terrible wages, and the reason they get shit on by everybody else in the state is because this is a majority black area.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:21 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I get that, and judge the one dude all you want. I think it's too bad that the article focused on him (although, seriously, he's a machinist. He totally should be making more).
But the reason that there are no jobs there, and the reason they can get away with paying such terrible wages, and the reason they get shit on by everybody else in the state is because this is a majority black area.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:21 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
US News tells me that the Wilcox Co. Public High School student population is literally 100% African American. Which led me to wonder: where are all the white kids going? Answer: Wilcox Academy: Of 278 non-prekindergarten students enrolled in the 2011-2012 school year, 276 were white.
The Atlantic did an article a few years ago about how these Southern segregation academies persist today.
posted by zachlipton at 10:37 AM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Atlantic did an article a few years ago about how these Southern segregation academies persist today.
posted by zachlipton at 10:37 AM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
So we've reached the point where we'll shit on the downtrodden and exploited because they don't meet the color requirement of our identity politics? I'm appalled, but I guess I'm naive to be shocked.
But here's the thing, he's not downtrodden. He had a job that paid 25 dollars an hour, but he "couldn't stand the big city" apparently, so he left it. He has been employed in a business his family owns. His father is a Lawyer who has the ability to consistently help him financially. He has some education. Compared to the majority of working class citizens in Wilcox county, the guy is sitting pretty. Yet, his disaffection with the way things are there, is somehow not his fault. Yet, somehow, the company he thought was a blessing until it declined to pay him what he believed he should be earning, suddenly that company is somehow suspect (after all those shifty Chinese engineers living onsite, those grease puddles on the plant floor, those mysterious accidents, etc etc). The root of his dissatisfaction is not his own unwillingness to change his own circumstances, but rather the conspiracy of a bunch of other bad actors, whose unwillingness to accommodate his expectations are making him miserable. And that, in a nutshell, is his White Privilege shining through.
posted by Chrischris at 10:47 AM on December 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
But here's the thing, he's not downtrodden. He had a job that paid 25 dollars an hour, but he "couldn't stand the big city" apparently, so he left it. He has been employed in a business his family owns. His father is a Lawyer who has the ability to consistently help him financially. He has some education. Compared to the majority of working class citizens in Wilcox county, the guy is sitting pretty. Yet, his disaffection with the way things are there, is somehow not his fault. Yet, somehow, the company he thought was a blessing until it declined to pay him what he believed he should be earning, suddenly that company is somehow suspect (after all those shifty Chinese engineers living onsite, those grease puddles on the plant floor, those mysterious accidents, etc etc). The root of his dissatisfaction is not his own unwillingness to change his own circumstances, but rather the conspiracy of a bunch of other bad actors, whose unwillingness to accommodate his expectations are making him miserable. And that, in a nutshell, is his White Privilege shining through.
posted by Chrischris at 10:47 AM on December 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
But the reason that there are no jobs there, and the reason they get shit on by everybody else
That's just it - that's not the reason; it's one reason. Several reasons (education, racism, income inequality, poor work environment) all intersect to form a perfect vortex of suck.
posted by eclectist at 10:47 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
That's just it - that's not the reason; it's one reason. Several reasons (education, racism, income inequality, poor work environment) all intersect to form a perfect vortex of suck.
posted by eclectist at 10:47 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm all for handing out tax breaks to lure businesses into a depressed area or build stadiums or what have you - but ONLY if the deal means the company pays for education. And not academies or charter schools, free public education. As in, "you pay half what you normally would in taxes, but all of that cash goes towards our local public school system. Every cent."
That is the only way a corporate tax break like the ones in TFA will ever benefit anyone except the company.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:54 AM on December 2, 2015
That is the only way a corporate tax break like the ones in TFA will ever benefit anyone except the company.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:54 AM on December 2, 2015
Well, workers do benefit: If they didn't, they wouldn't take the jobs. But the benefit may be smaller than expected, and the costs of the tax incentives are large.
States and the localities could, in theory, end the race to the bottom by agreeing to stop offering such incentives. That, of course, isn't going to happen.
The federal government could ban them, but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:12 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
States and the localities could, in theory, end the race to the bottom by agreeing to stop offering such incentives. That, of course, isn't going to happen.
The federal government could ban them, but I'm not holding my breath.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:12 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Jobs are good, but jobs with good pay and benefits, which provide the potential for people to move up within the company and/or community are best.
There has to be some kind of metric for this already from economics, doesn't there?
posted by namespan at 12:56 PM on December 2, 2015
There has to be some kind of metric for this already from economics, doesn't there?
posted by namespan at 12:56 PM on December 2, 2015
I'm all for handing out tax breaks to lure businesses into a depressed area or build stadiums or what have you - but ONLY if the deal means the company pays for education. And not academies or charter schools, free public education. As in, "you pay half what you normally would in taxes, but all of that cash goes towards our local public school system. Every cent."
You realize that if they just paid their taxes like normal, they'd be funding education too, right? In some areas, 50%+ of property taxes go to fund schools as it is.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
You realize that if they just paid their taxes like normal, they'd be funding education too, right? In some areas, 50%+ of property taxes go to fund schools as it is.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wouldn't it be amazing if the US became known as a country that refuses to allow foreign countries to come in and underpay its people just to make a buck?
It seems that the US is that country. I mean, there are minimum wage laws that pretty much have to be followed. And by the story, it sounds like GD in particular isn't exactly paying terribly, especially for the region.
What this story highlights, oddly, is power of the welfare state, even if local government would never admit it. In other places, some tax funds are diverted to provide, among other things, assistance and services for people of little means. This is the upside down version. Instead of collecting taxes and doling out the funds, it lures companies with remarkably sweet deals, and in return, has the company dole out wages instead. Make no mistake. This is the welfare state. Is it better for the State to do that job? The same State that has fucked itself for decades? Would it be better had GD not opened shop at all?
The bigger problem is the tremendous lack of human capital in the region to exploit in the first place. Companies like GD might make a little dent, but it's a tough battle, the region being so far behind to begin with. The reason so many low end manufacturing jobs left for places like China was the pool of low skilled workers there. I guess in a way, it's a bit impressive for China that some of those low end jobs are onshoring back to the US. Even if it makes us face what a shitty job we've done at cultivating a modern work force.
Deshler, though, doesn't impress me as being someone I can really sympathize with all that much. Was it really so hard to find a better person to highlight?
posted by 2N2222 at 3:28 PM on December 2, 2015
It seems that the US is that country. I mean, there are minimum wage laws that pretty much have to be followed. And by the story, it sounds like GD in particular isn't exactly paying terribly, especially for the region.
What this story highlights, oddly, is power of the welfare state, even if local government would never admit it. In other places, some tax funds are diverted to provide, among other things, assistance and services for people of little means. This is the upside down version. Instead of collecting taxes and doling out the funds, it lures companies with remarkably sweet deals, and in return, has the company dole out wages instead. Make no mistake. This is the welfare state. Is it better for the State to do that job? The same State that has fucked itself for decades? Would it be better had GD not opened shop at all?
The bigger problem is the tremendous lack of human capital in the region to exploit in the first place. Companies like GD might make a little dent, but it's a tough battle, the region being so far behind to begin with. The reason so many low end manufacturing jobs left for places like China was the pool of low skilled workers there. I guess in a way, it's a bit impressive for China that some of those low end jobs are onshoring back to the US. Even if it makes us face what a shitty job we've done at cultivating a modern work force.
Deshler, though, doesn't impress me as being someone I can really sympathize with all that much. Was it really so hard to find a better person to highlight?
posted by 2N2222 at 3:28 PM on December 2, 2015
But here's the thing, he's not downtrodden. He had a job that paid 25 dollars an hour, but he "couldn't stand the big city" apparently, so he left it. He has been employed in a business his family owns. His father is a Lawyer who has the ability to consistently help him financially. He has some education. Compared to the majority of working class citizens in Wilcox county, the guy is sitting pretty.
If even someone with this kind of educational (machinists qualification), familial (the business and the lawyer dad), and racial capital can't get ahead as a working class resident of Wilcox County, then how fucked is Wilcox county?
You're right that he hasn't done himself any favours by moving away from his higher paid job in the city, and that the ability to move there and move back is another privilege, and that he maybe wasn't the best example to use but as a diagnostic of what is happening in places like Wilcox it still works.
posted by atrazine at 1:50 AM on December 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
If even someone with this kind of educational (machinists qualification), familial (the business and the lawyer dad), and racial capital can't get ahead as a working class resident of Wilcox County, then how fucked is Wilcox county?
You're right that he hasn't done himself any favours by moving away from his higher paid job in the city, and that the ability to move there and move back is another privilege, and that he maybe wasn't the best example to use but as a diagnostic of what is happening in places like Wilcox it still works.
posted by atrazine at 1:50 AM on December 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess in a way, it's a bit impressive for China that some of those low end jobs are onshoring back to the US.
It's an impressive demonstration of the power of tariff legislation is what it is. They didn't move a plant to the US just for fun.
posted by atrazine at 1:51 AM on December 3, 2015
It's an impressive demonstration of the power of tariff legislation is what it is. They didn't move a plant to the US just for fun.
posted by atrazine at 1:51 AM on December 3, 2015
The protagonist's story is curious *because* he's such an outlier. He's not just atypical, he shouldn't be doing anywhere near as badly as he is given the combination of his skills and his access to family money. I think it's because of his insistence on staying in an economically depressed area and some other factor that's unmentioned in the story. That's why I feel someone more typical from the area should've been chosen. Additionally, his jump from $3.70 to $11.00 shouldn't have been possible - his compensation structure at the quick mart as it's described in the article doesn't seem legal for a non-tipped employee.
posted by Selena777 at 6:41 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 6:41 PM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
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