The Peculiar Ascent of Bill Murray to Secular Saint

December 2, 2015 2:43 PM

Over the last few years, Mitch Glazer, the screenwriter and producer, has watched with awe and bewilderment what has happened to Bill Murray. Glazer recently penned a Vanity Fair cover story on his friend, as well. "A Very Murray Christmas" premiers on Netflix on December 4th.
posted by Xavier Xavier (38 comments total)

Anyways all the cool people have Brian Doyle-Murray tats.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:04 PM on December 2, 2015 [6 favorites]

I feel like Bill Murray represents existential dourness to me. He also represents the archetypal white guy in big long winter coat to me, so I keep thinking he represents all the holidays...which is also why I somehow thought Groundhog Day was a Thanksgiving/Christmas movie. Oh, Bill.
posted by yueliang at 3:06 PM on December 2, 2015

Bill Murray plays to his own audience for himself.”

I think that captures a lot of his allure.

However, the article is lacking in that it fails to mention the most Bill Murray-esque role ever. Of course I'm talking of when he played Bill Murray zombie in Zombieland.
posted by forforf at 3:10 PM on December 2, 2015 [16 favorites]

I didn't say I didn't get a still of John Murray from Moving Violations tattooed on my butt

oh god that movie ruled, in the sense that it sucked mega hard in a way i find super enjoyable
posted by palomar at 3:14 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

Chevy Chase and Bill Murray became famous, one after another, on the same show, playing similar characters: anti-establishment, "awful" dudes who were somehow cool. But the passage of time has shown the difference between them. Chevy Chase is an awful guy who sometimes appeared cool because he had good writers, while Bill Murray is a cool guy who only appeared to be awful because his characters were written that way.

(And by awful I mean sex-obsessed, troublemaker types.)
posted by Kevin Street at 3:15 PM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]

I didn't say I didn't get a still of John Murray from Moving Violations tattooed on my butt

I once got Peter Aykroyd but I applied topical cream and it went away in a week.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:18 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

A bit late but here's a slyt of BM in Zombieland. The homages are so in your face it hurts.
posted by forforf at 3:19 PM on December 2, 2015

Oh damn, I have never heard of Moving Violations but it looks awesome! Didn't realise the person playing Bill's brother in Scrooged was actually his brother! I thought it was Brian and that was it.
posted by wyndham at 3:26 PM on December 2, 2015

I don't want to get into full-on YFIP mode here, but...well, I love Bill Murray. His movies were one of my dad's favorite things ever, and I remember watching Stripes with Dad on The Movie Loft about a year before he passed. Dad loved and identified with Bill in a big way, and even kind of looked like him.

At the same time, though...I go out of my way to boycott other media figures who abuse their significant others or children, and I'm pretty open about why I boycott them. I can't bring myself to boycott Bill, in spite of the fact that he beat his wife. His movies represent something to me that makes it hard to stop watching them. It breaks my heart that he did what he did, and I feel like a hypocrite because I still love his work.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:32 PM on December 2, 2015 [5 favorites]

I ♥ Bill. That is all.
posted by Splunge at 3:51 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

All the stories of Bill Murray just showing up at a dorm or a bar or a party and hanging out all night just seem sad to me. Where are his people? Where is his home? Why is he hanging out with strangers all the time drinking?

One of my few brushes with fame was at a large party where Bill Murray was in attendance a few years back - as an invited guest, not as a crasher. Although my wife still regrets not saying hi, we, like most people at the party, wanted to be cool and didn't interact with him much. He seemed quiet and sad to me.
posted by troyer at 4:10 PM on December 2, 2015 [8 favorites]

What are these allegations of abuse anyway? People are inclined to make everything out to be deliberate abuse during difficult separations, so I'd like to know a little more about what specifically Murray's been accused of before I just uncritically accept the characterization that he's a "wife-beater" as someone put it upthread. Anybody got links or cites to anything more concrete than something somebody heard once? A lot of people (myself included) consider deliberate gaslighting to be a form of abuse but everybody seems to have different interpretations of what behaviors rise to the level of gaslighting, for instance, so it'd be nice to know what kind of abuse, specifically, Murray's been accused of, if there's more than just opportunistic divorce maneuvering and innuendo to the claims. I'm not trying to dismiss the claims, just curious for more info about what they're actually based on.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:27 PM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]

All the stories of Bill Murray just showing up at a dorm or a bar or a party and hanging out all night just seem sad to me. Where are his people? Where is his home? Why is he hanging out with strangers all the time drinking?

But see that's the thing: we're all Bill Murray's people. That's the whole appeal of the myth - a man who is so universally loved that he can go to any party or surprise literally any group of people, anywhere, at any time, and be 100% certain that he will be welcomed by those people, who will be certain to be people who adore him.

But the article's not quite right - he's not becoming a saint, he's becoming a figure of folklore. A myth. Hundreds of years from now, after the collapse of civilization, there will stories about Zombie Bill "Groundhog" Murray, the way there are stories about Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan and Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett and who knows which ones actually have any basis in fact?

I'm sure the real Bill Murray is not the equal to the myth. Pretty sure nobody has ever been equal to the myth of themselves. But do I hope he's having fun, and not too lonely, and if he ever wants to go sailing (when the weather's decent) or just hang out, he's welcome to drop in on me unexpectedly.

If he ever tries to eat one of my french fries without asking though, I'll cut his damn hand off.
posted by mstokes650 at 4:29 PM on December 2, 2015 [17 favorites]

Here you go, Saul Goodman.

BTW, I didn't call him a "wife-beater". Don't put words in my mouth.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:45 PM on December 2, 2015

I can't really speak to allegations about incidents in his personal life, because i don't follow that sort of celebrity news, but as far as his comedic career goes, he has a large body of work that seems to harm no one. he has always come across simply as a guy who's a bit zany, willing to do almost any sort of gag for a laugh, but without tearing down anyone or anything around him. Likability, in a public figure, might be an act, but he's been pretty consistently likable for a long time.
i would also take issue with the idea that Ghostbusters is what vaulted him to stardom. Did anyone not know him after Caddyshack?
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:50 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

*hmph* No surprises there.

It's easy to become the secular saint when you have the ear of Archbishop Guido.
posted by markkraft at 4:59 PM on December 2, 2015 [5 favorites]

OHenryPacey: Stripes was a favorite around the pxe household when I was of an impressionable age.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:13 PM on December 2, 2015

Hell yes to stripes! I was just thinking of the star power, Dangerfield, Ted Knight, Chevy Chase et al being the bigger breakthrough role. I mean I loved him in Meatballs, so I just don't buy the Ghostbusters angle.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:47 PM on December 2, 2015

I didn't say he was a ghost buster. I just said he busted a ghost.
posted by layceepee at 5:50 PM on December 2, 2015 [15 favorites]

While I respect his creativity and past accomplishments, I am a little surprised by how forgiving his fans have been after turning out a number of unimpressive movies. While not actors, I frequently hear how insane it is for Michael Bay and M Night Shyamalan to big given massive sums of money to turn out crap films. As for actors, Adam Sandler and Tyler Perry are getting increasingly annoying to their fans.
However, Bill Murray always gets a pass because, well, he is Bill Murray.
posted by Muncle at 6:01 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

Why is he hanging out with strangers all the time drinking?

Trying to not be alone, probably. Playing his fame to keep busy, maybe amuse himself for a bit. Acting.

I hadn't heard about the abuse allegations - very sad indeed, if true. They sound true.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:02 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

Like he reminds me of someone I know who's talented and likeable and maybe fucked up in maybe similar ways, and that complaint has some true feeling in it. Who knows, though, really.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:04 PM on December 2, 2015

His mid-2000 "Sad Bill Murray" roles resonate with me (naturally) the older I get. I rewatched Broken Flowers recently and I think it still stands up (though it's super Jarmusch-y). I feel like his turn as Steve Zissou is a liiitle too on-the-nose, but I'm a sucker for Wes Anderson's aesthetic (I know it's quite divisive). I like the thesis of the NYT piece that Bill Murray is an almost-blank slate onto which Wes Anderson "millennials," fans of his 80s wise-guy schtick, and fans of "Sad Bill Murray" alike can all project their own idealized virtues onto him (wry defeat, cynical black humor, happy-fun-party-guy, and so forth). I'm also fascinated with the apparent lack of a wall between "Bill Murray, actor in various roles" and "Bill Murray, human being" in so many fans' minds -- mine included.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 6:12 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

All of that being said, his turn in Groundhog Day still moves me. The film hangs on a fun little pop-philosophical concept, but (again) the older I get, the more moving I find his character's painfully slow growth from narcissistic asshole to empathic man. It's one of the oldest stories there is (I mean, Scrooged?), but I find it a lot more moving in my dotage. I guess I'm getting soft in my old age. Sorta like a mid-2000s Bill Murray character, I suppose.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 6:17 PM on December 2, 2015

pxe2000: "BTW, I didn't call him a "wife-beater". Don't put words in my mouth."

You said, "in spite of the fact that he beat his wife." What is the semantic distinction between a wife-beater and a man who beat his wife?
posted by Chrysostom at 6:33 PM on December 2, 2015 [14 favorites]

Yeah, maybe it says more about me than it does about him, but I find myself resentful that all this love and goodwill gets heaped on this guy who apparently drove not one but two marriages right into Jersey barriers. I like his work, most of it, some of it a lot. I may not be welcome at the parties of strangers, but at least, if I drop in on the backyard party of my own kids, I'll be welcome.
posted by newdaddy at 6:41 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

I was yet out of grammar school when I saw Meatballs and wasn't allowed to watch SNL very often and with only a vague idea who Bill Murray was and would become. But Stripes and Caddyshack in Jr. High (and when I was first aware there were brothers) were serious business (like Animal House) and came before Ghostbusters. As I was leaving high school, I was a little too obsessed with The Razor's Edge, especially Bill Murray's eulogy of John Belushi (that I memorized) and an expectation of comic and dramatic roles never left me and I've yet to be disappointed.

The biggest "mystery" of Murray, to me, are his brothers, and how distinctive the gestures of Brian-Doyle are to have transferred to his brothers. Like when Joel showed up in Shameless that I was Netflixing with my sister years after its release. There are 9 siblings according to IMDB.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 6:45 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but I could have sworn someone said he "beat his wife"; thanks for the link. I'd never heard of any of these accusations against him before this thread.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:46 PM on December 2, 2015

@lazycomputerkids - The fact of his siblings was what made him stand out for the first time on SNL
posted by Old Man Wilson at 6:52 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

The answer to "what did Bill Murray's ex-wife accuse him of" is "hitting her and threatening further violence." Whatever you want to do with that exactly what a particular person on MeFi called him seems rather beside the point.

Me, even without that information Ive tended to assume he *is* privately an asshole. Something about those early SNL guys. He's a fantastic actor and a compelling persona but I'm not quite sure why people assume he's a *great guy*.
posted by atoxyl at 6:53 PM on December 2, 2015

Chrystosoam, the fact that Saul took two paragraphs I wrote and boiled them down to a single phrase annoyed me.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:53 PM on December 2, 2015

Well, Bill Murray's ex-wife was no angel. Sometimes you have to be careful about what is said during divorce proceedings.
posted by eye of newt at 8:26 PM on December 2, 2015

> Well, Bill Murray's ex-wife was no angel

please don't do this. outside of that reading as defending any potential abuse on his part, this is the exact same logic that many use to justify the shooting of unarmed black men.
posted by MysticMCJ at 8:33 PM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]

pxe2000: BTW, I didn't call him a "wife-beater". Don't put words in my mouth.

Earlier in the discussion: I can't bring myself to boycott Bill, in spite of the fact that he beat his wife.

The larger question is whether we are allowed to like someone who, according to a divorce filing worth $7,000,000 is deeply flawed.

Is Bill Murray a genuinely cool person, or is he the comedic equivalent of Jimmy Carter, building a legacy of virtue during his last act?

[I love Jimmy Carter, and think he's the real deal]
posted by mecran01 at 10:08 PM on December 2, 2015

I've wondered a lot, across the years of watching Bill Murray both in media projects and being talked about in media, how much of his approach to life is tangled up with his lobbying to play the lead in The Razor's Edge?

I mean, it's a deeply flawed movie (one I love, but I can't say I think it's a good movie), but the subject matter of the movie and the book speaks of a damaged man searching for healing and meaning in life. From what little I know about it, it seems as if it was a movie that Murray really wanted to do.

It's just a little thing I wonder about -- the connection between The Razor's Edge and Murray's ability to fascinate, entertain, and generally be a groovy frood out in the real world without really trying to make it a big deal.
posted by hippybear at 1:10 AM on December 3, 2015 [3 favorites]

I too have done bad in my life. The good does not erase it. I love the good, and live with the bad. One the up side, I didn't do bad very often, frequently, or later, as once I did bad I never did it again. At the time I didn't know better, and when I did I was sorry.
Please forgive me as I move forward and do everything in my power to make the world a better place.
Signed,
Not Bill Murray
posted by Mike Mongo at 5:13 AM on December 3, 2015

hippybear, I've long wondered the same thing myself.
posted by palomar at 10:00 AM on December 3, 2015

There's currently an exhibition (Brian Griffiths's BILL MURRAY: a story of distance, size and sincerity) at the Baltic Mill gallery in Gateshead that's basically Bill Murray hagiography.
posted by klausness at 5:37 AM on December 6, 2015