This man has an actual black hole devouring his jawline.
December 7, 2015 2:34 AM Subscribe
Oops... dupe.
posted by fairmettle at 2:52 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by fairmettle at 2:52 AM on December 7, 2015
Bethesda software: if it ain't broke, don't ship it.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:29 AM on December 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:29 AM on December 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
if it ain't broke, don't ship it
To be fair, this is a mod you have to install. The game in its default state won't do this but it'll still make you breakdance when you die, sometimes.
posted by pipeski at 5:43 AM on December 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
To be fair, this is a mod you have to install. The game in its default state won't do this but it'll still make you breakdance when you die, sometimes.
posted by pipeski at 5:43 AM on December 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
Oh my. There was a reference to.. The Charlie Sheen movie that shall not be named.
posted by Yowser at 6:02 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by Yowser at 6:02 AM on December 7, 2015
looks like they've just altered the scaling factor for the shifts used to anchor where the "masks" are rendered. i guess they store just a basic "face" for each character and then transform it for expressing / talking by moving various reference points and interpolating the image between those points. if you move the points too much, it's going to look like this.
so it's a bit unfair to blame the software devs when someone's tweaking this to explicitly look bad (and i suspect the mod is just changing a couple of numbers in a matrix somewhere).
posted by andrewcooke at 6:04 AM on December 7, 2015
so it's a bit unfair to blame the software devs when someone's tweaking this to explicitly look bad (and i suspect the mod is just changing a couple of numbers in a matrix somewhere).
posted by andrewcooke at 6:04 AM on December 7, 2015
It's like the Black Hole Sun video mixed with an Enzyte commercial.
posted by codacorolla at 6:06 AM on December 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 6:06 AM on December 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
If you like this, make sure to check out Monster Factory's take on Fallout (previously).
posted by saladin at 6:10 AM on December 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by saladin at 6:10 AM on December 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
So I take the Freedom Trail to my office (in fact, I think the decimated remains of my office building appear in the game), and I can tell you that these mods resemble some members of our legal department.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:28 AM on December 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 6:28 AM on December 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
So I take the Freedom Trail to my office (in fact, I think the decimated remains of my office building appear in the game)
I'm a bummed that both my apartment and grad school are a fishing shack and an empty field, respectively.
posted by dismas at 6:41 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm a bummed that both my apartment and grad school are a fishing shack and an empty field, respectively.
posted by dismas at 6:41 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ha ha. I saw this on a stream this weekend. The streamer stopped and added the mod before a very long and involved talking bit. It was very funny and creepy.
This sort of thing is one of the reasons I stick with PC gaming. The mods that come out for games like Fallout and Skyrim are so creative and at times hilarious. Like Skyrim I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with once people start really playing around with the game.
I'm still going through my first play through and only using a few mods that don't affect game play too much. I'm using one that makes night darker and one that allows more armor slots because I thought it was dumb that I couldn't fit armor pieces over a nice dress and I want to be able to run around in a nice blue dress if I feel like it! Also using the one where your weapon is in the down position when walking and running.
posted by Jalliah at 7:11 AM on December 7, 2015
This sort of thing is one of the reasons I stick with PC gaming. The mods that come out for games like Fallout and Skyrim are so creative and at times hilarious. Like Skyrim I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with once people start really playing around with the game.
I'm still going through my first play through and only using a few mods that don't affect game play too much. I'm using one that makes night darker and one that allows more armor slots because I thought it was dumb that I couldn't fit armor pieces over a nice dress and I want to be able to run around in a nice blue dress if I feel like it! Also using the one where your weapon is in the down position when walking and running.
posted by Jalliah at 7:11 AM on December 7, 2015
This is my first Bethesda game on a console, and I'm already missing the (nascent) mod scene. I think the thing I'm most jealous about are the difficulty tweaks which makes stuff die in 1 or 2 shots on survival, while also making you die in 1 or 2 shots, instead of the default bullet sponge balance. They're saying that there's going to be a console mod shop, but... well, I'll believe it when I see it.
Another major fix is the dialog system overhaul, which puts stuff back into a list format, and displays the full sentences instead of the insanely vague and uninformative two word prompts: here.
As a side note, one of the major modding networks, Nexus, recently had a major security breach: basically a few popular mods were discovered to have a virus / backdoor .dll file included in their binaries. So be careful if you're experimenting with mods.
posted by codacorolla at 7:55 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Another major fix is the dialog system overhaul, which puts stuff back into a list format, and displays the full sentences instead of the insanely vague and uninformative two word prompts: here.
As a side note, one of the major modding networks, Nexus, recently had a major security breach: basically a few popular mods were discovered to have a virus / backdoor .dll file included in their binaries. So be careful if you're experimenting with mods.
posted by codacorolla at 7:55 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
So I take the Freedom Trail to my office (in fact, I think the decimated remains of my office building appear in the game), and I can tell you that these mods resemble some members of our legal department.
They also got the owner of the Salem Witch Museum 100% correct.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:18 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
They also got the owner of the Salem Witch Museum 100% correct.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:18 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
For those unfamiliar with the world of Elder Scrolls/Fallout modding, “Immersive” is an adjective found in the names of many mods. Someone decides that X should work differently in the game, makes a mod, and then names that mod “Immersive X” so as to assert that their opinionated choices make the game objectively more immersive. See also: Immersive Laundry, a sincere mod with a knowingly silly name.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:26 AM on December 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:26 AM on December 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just want to say how glad I am that I don't have a PS4 and thus can only have 12-hour sessions of F4 when I visit my nephew or I wouldn't get any sleep.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:27 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:27 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
They're going to add mods to consoles, though it'll be restricted through Bethseda.net. Not many details yet on how it's actually going to work.
Meanwhile I need to go to all my settlements and take away the TVs to see if that's causing the bug that occasionally makes settlers believe their beds, food and water are missing.
posted by rewil at 9:53 AM on December 7, 2015
Meanwhile I need to go to all my settlements and take away the TVs to see if that's causing the bug that occasionally makes settlers believe their beds, food and water are missing.
posted by rewil at 9:53 AM on December 7, 2015
Many mods on PC need the community-made Script Extender binary (FOSE for Fallout) to do the things they do, and consoles won't have that. Of the ones that don't need FOSE, most are just texture replacers or model replacers. I am expecting very little when they actually announce how mods on consoles will work. At least that way I won't be disappointed.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:29 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:29 AM on December 7, 2015
Consoles could easily have that software pushed to them in a patch.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:40 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:40 AM on December 7, 2015
Many mods on PC need the community-made Script Extender binary (FOSE for Fallout) to do the things they do, and consoles won't have that.
That, the fact that the mod shop probably won't be letting you download big multi-gig files all day for free plus the problem with needing patches, often third party patches, to get more than one major mod working together.
The "Ah fuck, which mod is causing that crash?" and fiddling with load orders and third-party tools are not really part of what consoles are or how they are sold, so I can't imagine anything like the PC mod scene on consoles.
Consoles could easily have that software pushed to them in a patch.
I can't imagine console makers being down with starting to allow third-party .dll's (or whatever form it'd be on consoles) that let you really screw with game data to be pushed to everyone's machine. From my minor experience with fiddling with FOSE/SKSE, they open stuff up A LOT. More or less free reign. Also there is more than one version, and it's often in beta and switches builds often. Not the console experience as I understand it.
posted by neonrev at 10:49 AM on December 7, 2015
That, the fact that the mod shop probably won't be letting you download big multi-gig files all day for free plus the problem with needing patches, often third party patches, to get more than one major mod working together.
The "Ah fuck, which mod is causing that crash?" and fiddling with load orders and third-party tools are not really part of what consoles are or how they are sold, so I can't imagine anything like the PC mod scene on consoles.
Consoles could easily have that software pushed to them in a patch.
I can't imagine console makers being down with starting to allow third-party .dll's (or whatever form it'd be on consoles) that let you really screw with game data to be pushed to everyone's machine. From my minor experience with fiddling with FOSE/SKSE, they open stuff up A LOT. More or less free reign. Also there is more than one version, and it's often in beta and switches builds often. Not the console experience as I understand it.
posted by neonrev at 10:49 AM on December 7, 2015
> Consoles could easily have that software pushed to them in a patch.
Not easily, no. For that to be feasible Bethesda would have to take over F4SE or else make it unnecessary by enhancing the engine in the same way. The latter is far more likely, since F4SE does what it does by making modifications to the game's memory, but neither one is all that likely.
Still, I'll root for it.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:51 AM on December 7, 2015
Not easily, no. For that to be feasible Bethesda would have to take over F4SE or else make it unnecessary by enhancing the engine in the same way. The latter is far more likely, since F4SE does what it does by making modifications to the game's memory, but neither one is all that likely.
Still, I'll root for it.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:51 AM on December 7, 2015
The *SE family of mods was one of the big reasons that their earlier experiment with the Skyrim mod-shop failed as well (and that was solely through Steam). You got to the point where people who were making backbone mods wanted to monetize, and it threatened to essentially destroy the entire modding community because of how important those mods are to other mods. I'm curious to see how they approach that same problem this time, or if they even bother to approach it at all.
posted by codacorolla at 11:02 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 11:02 AM on December 7, 2015
Well yeah, sorry for being unclear, I didn't mean that Bethesda would use that actual bit of software. They could write a patch to do the same sort of thing though.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:18 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:18 AM on December 7, 2015
Man, Fallout 4 is incredibly flawed and not a good RPG. And yet I have put nearly 100 hours into it. Bethesda makes games that draw you in even though you can tell how crappy parts are.
posted by Justinian at 11:28 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:28 AM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah ugh there's some railroading that just drives me mental. Building settlements is super fun though--I'm hoping the first big update comes with some better tools for aligning building elements, and some more variation in structures would be nice, and it would be really great if the bloody standalone walls would bloody well align with prefab components aaaaaaaargh.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:33 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:33 AM on December 7, 2015
I can see a lot of problems with Bethesda incorporating unofficial SE changes into official code, not the least of which would be severely pissing off the community who acts as an unofficial selling point for your games, as well potentially bifurcating your modding user base by having some people operating off your SE and some operating off of modder created backbones. I don't think those are insurmountable problems, but the potential exists, certainly.
Man, Fallout 4 is incredibly flawed and not a good RPG. And yet I have put nearly 100 hours into it. Bethesda makes games that draw you in even though you can tell how crappy parts are.
I feel a similar way, although I put in about 30 hours before I was satisfied with the game, and put it down. They did an outstanding job with the world design this time around, and even though there are flaws, the shooty parts are well done. I'd say it's a more perfect execution of the Borderlands / Rage formula. Both of those elements combined definitely helped me to push past the other parts which I found frustrating and poorly done (as you mention, the RP of the RPG formula). I think this is probably the best game they've ever released, and I'm even a big Morrowind fan.
posted by codacorolla at 11:34 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Man, Fallout 4 is incredibly flawed and not a good RPG. And yet I have put nearly 100 hours into it. Bethesda makes games that draw you in even though you can tell how crappy parts are.
I feel a similar way, although I put in about 30 hours before I was satisfied with the game, and put it down. They did an outstanding job with the world design this time around, and even though there are flaws, the shooty parts are well done. I'd say it's a more perfect execution of the Borderlands / Rage formula. Both of those elements combined definitely helped me to push past the other parts which I found frustrating and poorly done (as you mention, the RP of the RPG formula). I think this is probably the best game they've ever released, and I'm even a big Morrowind fan.
posted by codacorolla at 11:34 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Speaking of Bethesda creepiness - dying while you're a baby in Fallout 3 is more disturbing than you'd expect.
posted by knuckle tattoos at 11:35 AM on December 7, 2015
posted by knuckle tattoos at 11:35 AM on December 7, 2015
I think the RP is not super bad though.. I made some decisions about how my character would behave and more or less stick to them within some fuzzy outlines. I guess maybe for me part of RP is that you don't always get to react in every situation the way your character would ideally act--you can only go for whatever's closest. Which seems apt in a game about postapocalyptic survival.
Some of the worldbuilding bugs me too.. tiny little settlements a hop skip and jump from an assload of Super Mutants or Raiders or whoever, and none of the settlements are built where people would logically go--easily-defended or -fortified areas. And why are all these people such idiots that they're all about lovely orderly farms and yet can't be arsed to build a fence to keep Ghouls out.
Diamond City is a gem (heee) though. I really like how it's bolted on to the underlying structure, and how there are hints about more living space up in the bleachers, offstage as it were. The weapons upgrading and crafting is fantastic--would love to be able to craft ammo though. And there's a weird thing with armour crafting--you can only scrap some armour? I find that annoying and inconsistent. They've almost got the encumbrance right--I'm kind of a hoarder, and the timing between 'head out from home base' and 'dogmeat's inventory is full and so is mine and there's nothing I want to drop' seems to be coming around just infrequently enough that it's not annoying most of the time, except in seriously loot-rich locations.
Also unless I've totally misunderstood, you carry all your weapon mods at all times? One would think they'd disappear from your inventory when you store the gun in question, but nope.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:49 AM on December 7, 2015
Some of the worldbuilding bugs me too.. tiny little settlements a hop skip and jump from an assload of Super Mutants or Raiders or whoever, and none of the settlements are built where people would logically go--easily-defended or -fortified areas. And why are all these people such idiots that they're all about lovely orderly farms and yet can't be arsed to build a fence to keep Ghouls out.
Diamond City is a gem (heee) though. I really like how it's bolted on to the underlying structure, and how there are hints about more living space up in the bleachers, offstage as it were. The weapons upgrading and crafting is fantastic--would love to be able to craft ammo though. And there's a weird thing with armour crafting--you can only scrap some armour? I find that annoying and inconsistent. They've almost got the encumbrance right--I'm kind of a hoarder, and the timing between 'head out from home base' and 'dogmeat's inventory is full and so is mine and there's nothing I want to drop' seems to be coming around just infrequently enough that it's not annoying most of the time, except in seriously loot-rich locations.
Also unless I've totally misunderstood, you carry all your weapon mods at all times? One would think they'd disappear from your inventory when you store the gun in question, but nope.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:49 AM on December 7, 2015
would love to be able to craft ammo though.
Someone must be able to. How else can there can be such a high population density of raiders shooting at any stranger that passes by, hundreds of years after the bombs fell, and there's still plentiful rounds of every calibre easily found in little boxes all over the land? Find the ammunition factory, learn its secrets, and shut it down, that is my new mission in Fallout 4.
posted by sfenders at 12:03 PM on December 7, 2015
Someone must be able to. How else can there can be such a high population density of raiders shooting at any stranger that passes by, hundreds of years after the bombs fell, and there's still plentiful rounds of every calibre easily found in little boxes all over the land? Find the ammunition factory, learn its secrets, and shut it down, that is my new mission in Fallout 4.
posted by sfenders at 12:03 PM on December 7, 2015
My main problem with roleplaying is largely that quests have taken a major step backwards in terms of varying resolutions. Half of this can be attributed to the new character system (which, overall, I like a lot more than managing a spreadsheet of skills), and half of it can be attributed to the voiced protagonist (which I don't mind in theory, but feel very displeased with the execution). The skill system only recognizes semi-random CHA checks as a way of processing character skills. You'll never be able to pass a check by being extremely intelligent, or lucky, or skilled with guns (as was the case in the other games). As a result, most quests boil specifically down to doing a shooting gallery and then reporting back. At most you tend to be able to finagle 100 more caps out of the quest marker, but in my 30 hours or so I never really saw a way to, say, non-violently resolve a situation by being a smooth talker, or a brilliant computer guy, or a hopped up chem addict. The places where this DOES happen are noteworthy (like the Silver Shroud questline), but in vast majority, and in comparison to other games, nearly everything involves running a dungeon, hitting the goal button, and then reporting back.
Apart from that, the varying dialogue options rarely seem to matter much, and because you're only ever getting the four variations on a theme (usually friendly, aggressive, sarcastic, and huh?!), the opportunity to define yourself through interacting with characters is limited. You can heroically take the quest, or you can sarcastically take the quest, but the end result is usually the same. Once again, this feels like a major step backwards for the series.
Put briefly, I never felt like my perks mattered for anything other than doing more damage, and I never felt like which of the four buttons I pressed for dialog had any bearing on what eventually happened. Tied in to the more defined protagonist backstory, the RP part of it felt extraordinarily limited. I don't want to get into the writing, but it didn't do the limited roleplaying any favors.
WRT worldbuilding, yeah, but I think that's an unfortunate part of the genre. It's more glaring when you're out in the 'wilderness' which is about the size of a suburban sub-division, but once you're in the compact and well realized downtown of Boston, the craft they put into the world really shines through.
Also unless I've totally misunderstood, you carry all your weapon mods at all times? One would think they'd disappear from your inventory when you store the gun in question, but nope.
Weapon mods live on a gun until you replace them, at which point they move to your inventory in their own tab. If you then want to 'make' one of those mods on another gun, they move onto the gun and out of your mod tab. If you scrap a gun with mods, you get specific scrap for the mods it has on it (e.g. a sighted 10MM with a marksman's grip will produce more base materials than a vanilla 10MM). If you're not running a character who can craft, then you can find a mod you want on an existing weapon, craft it down to a lower version, and then craft the desired mod for free on a different weapon. Unfortunately the UI is very obtuse (another major complaint), and makes it difficult to understand the process.
If you sell all of the mods in your current inventory, then the mods currently on guns in your inventory won't be affected in any way.
posted by codacorolla at 12:05 PM on December 7, 2015
Apart from that, the varying dialogue options rarely seem to matter much, and because you're only ever getting the four variations on a theme (usually friendly, aggressive, sarcastic, and huh?!), the opportunity to define yourself through interacting with characters is limited. You can heroically take the quest, or you can sarcastically take the quest, but the end result is usually the same. Once again, this feels like a major step backwards for the series.
Put briefly, I never felt like my perks mattered for anything other than doing more damage, and I never felt like which of the four buttons I pressed for dialog had any bearing on what eventually happened. Tied in to the more defined protagonist backstory, the RP part of it felt extraordinarily limited. I don't want to get into the writing, but it didn't do the limited roleplaying any favors.
WRT worldbuilding, yeah, but I think that's an unfortunate part of the genre. It's more glaring when you're out in the 'wilderness' which is about the size of a suburban sub-division, but once you're in the compact and well realized downtown of Boston, the craft they put into the world really shines through.
Also unless I've totally misunderstood, you carry all your weapon mods at all times? One would think they'd disappear from your inventory when you store the gun in question, but nope.
Weapon mods live on a gun until you replace them, at which point they move to your inventory in their own tab. If you then want to 'make' one of those mods on another gun, they move onto the gun and out of your mod tab. If you scrap a gun with mods, you get specific scrap for the mods it has on it (e.g. a sighted 10MM with a marksman's grip will produce more base materials than a vanilla 10MM). If you're not running a character who can craft, then you can find a mod you want on an existing weapon, craft it down to a lower version, and then craft the desired mod for free on a different weapon. Unfortunately the UI is very obtuse (another major complaint), and makes it difficult to understand the process.
If you sell all of the mods in your current inventory, then the mods currently on guns in your inventory won't be affected in any way.
posted by codacorolla at 12:05 PM on December 7, 2015
If you sell all of the mods in your current inventory, then the mods currently on guns in your inventory won't be affected in any way.
This is going to free up a pretty amazing amount of inventory. Can I therefore move any mods I don't currently use but may use again into my workbench inventory, and then just grab them back before crafting?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:13 PM on December 7, 2015
This is going to free up a pretty amazing amount of inventory. Can I therefore move any mods I don't currently use but may use again into my workbench inventory, and then just grab them back before crafting?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:13 PM on December 7, 2015
I'm pretty sure that you can. I found most of the upgrades to be straight upgrades, and never had a reason to go backwards, so I can't say for sure, but I believe that as long as they're in your workshop then they can be crafted for free onto different guns. You might want to test that out.
It's confusing because stripping something down to its base level (if you don't have that mod) still costs parts, and building something up to a mod you already have still displays that you need said parts, but actually making the mod won't consume any parts. Like I said - pretty bad UI design.
Also, mods sell for a surprisingly small amount of money (I guess to stop them from breaking the economy), so it's probably best just to store extra stuff in the workshop just in case. A full inventory of mods that you've been amassing all game will take up like 50 units of inventory weight, and probably only net like 200 caps or so, which is a drop in the bucket at any stage of the game.
posted by codacorolla at 12:20 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's confusing because stripping something down to its base level (if you don't have that mod) still costs parts, and building something up to a mod you already have still displays that you need said parts, but actually making the mod won't consume any parts. Like I said - pretty bad UI design.
Also, mods sell for a surprisingly small amount of money (I guess to stop them from breaking the economy), so it's probably best just to store extra stuff in the workshop just in case. A full inventory of mods that you've been amassing all game will take up like 50 units of inventory weight, and probably only net like 200 caps or so, which is a drop in the bucket at any stage of the game.
posted by codacorolla at 12:20 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
As far as I can tell, you can just leave the mods in the workbench inventory. If you want to add a mod to a weapon, and the mod already exists, it gets added rather than you being forced to create a new one.
posted by YAMWAK at 12:24 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by YAMWAK at 12:24 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
This reminds me so much of various rom corruptions and silly vinesauce videos on youtube.
posted by emptythought at 1:35 PM on December 7, 2015
posted by emptythought at 1:35 PM on December 7, 2015
I never really saw a way to, say, non-violently resolve a situation by being a smooth talker, or a brilliant computer guy, or a hopped up chem addict
There's a bit in the main quest where the baddie says "I think we both know how this is going to go" and... shooty time, no other options. Lame and not very clever.
I would murder for a port of New Vegas to this engine. Actual RPG storylines with decent and satisfying shooty mechanics and surprisingly fun gun crafting!
posted by BungaDunga at 1:44 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's a bit in the main quest where the baddie says "I think we both know how this is going to go" and... shooty time, no other options. Lame and not very clever.
I would murder for a port of New Vegas to this engine. Actual RPG storylines with decent and satisfying shooty mechanics and surprisingly fun gun crafting!
posted by BungaDunga at 1:44 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
codacorolla sums up my thoughts on the almost non-existent RP aspect of Fallout 4. Virtually every quest is "go here and kill everything". Leaving aside the CHA checks which mostly just allow you to get an extra 50 caps here and there I believe there is like 1 skill check in the entire game.
Compare to New Vegas where your skills and stats mattered and where virtually every quest had multiple solutions.
There are some great parts of FO4 its just that the RPG part is the worst part and the balance is the second worst part. (I'm playing on the hardest difficulty and have about 300 stimpacks at present and I am constantly selling 500 of various ammunitions because I get so much. The only exceptions are Shotgun Shells and 2mm EC. Not that I'm running out of those but I do have to buy them occasionally.
posted by Justinian at 2:30 PM on December 7, 2015
Compare to New Vegas where your skills and stats mattered and where virtually every quest had multiple solutions.
There are some great parts of FO4 its just that the RPG part is the worst part and the balance is the second worst part. (I'm playing on the hardest difficulty and have about 300 stimpacks at present and I am constantly selling 500 of various ammunitions because I get so much. The only exceptions are Shotgun Shells and 2mm EC. Not that I'm running out of those but I do have to buy them occasionally.
posted by Justinian at 2:30 PM on December 7, 2015
There are CHA checks more often--trying to get a key to search someone's house, in one quest. If you fail the CHA checks you have to pick a lock or steal instead. There's a few like that. In Covenant, too, and in 81.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:35 PM on December 7, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:35 PM on December 7, 2015
Yeah, it would be nice if other stats were challenged.
I'd also really like a tagging system for locations. Like, you're ambling through whatever building early on and you immediately find an Expert-level locked whatever. Would be nice to add a map entry that says "come back here later," and I feel like it could fit in-game, taking notes in your Pip-Boy kinda thing.
Still, the game looks astounding, the whole settlement thing is a neat new mechanic (if annoying when the whiny babies keep getting attacked and you have to go help them and you keep forgetting to have the materials for building turrets in hand because you consolidate all your crafting stuff in one location and it just never ends), there's new monsters to shoot at and stuff. I really, really like it--then again I have an abiding love for FO3 also, and for me at least, FO4 delivered the same but better, so I'm easily pleased there.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:54 PM on December 7, 2015
I'd also really like a tagging system for locations. Like, you're ambling through whatever building early on and you immediately find an Expert-level locked whatever. Would be nice to add a map entry that says "come back here later," and I feel like it could fit in-game, taking notes in your Pip-Boy kinda thing.
Still, the game looks astounding, the whole settlement thing is a neat new mechanic (if annoying when the whiny babies keep getting attacked and you have to go help them and you keep forgetting to have the materials for building turrets in hand because you consolidate all your crafting stuff in one location and it just never ends), there's new monsters to shoot at and stuff. I really, really like it--then again I have an abiding love for FO3 also, and for me at least, FO4 delivered the same but better, so I'm easily pleased there.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:54 PM on December 7, 2015
This is an educational thread! I won't be buying a new console for a while so no FO4 for me, just spoilers (which I gladly read).
If it's true that Charisma means almost nothing in FO4, then I am dissapoint. Role playing is the main thing in Bethesda games for me and my kids. My daughter has a char she calls The Mayor: pour everything into charisma, and hire huge bodyguards to protect you and do your dirty work. Brilliant. If you can't do that in FO4, then...wow. Just wow, Bethesda.
I *still* start new Skyrim games - probably around 50 in all so far - just to role play as The Ælchemist, or The Thief, or the peaceful hunter-gatherer living the quiet life in my nice little house in the woods and not bothering anyone. I was hoping to get some of that out of FO4.
posted by sidereal at 3:46 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
If it's true that Charisma means almost nothing in FO4, then I am dissapoint. Role playing is the main thing in Bethesda games for me and my kids. My daughter has a char she calls The Mayor: pour everything into charisma, and hire huge bodyguards to protect you and do your dirty work. Brilliant. If you can't do that in FO4, then...wow. Just wow, Bethesda.
I *still* start new Skyrim games - probably around 50 in all so far - just to role play as The Ælchemist, or The Thief, or the peaceful hunter-gatherer living the quiet life in my nice little house in the woods and not bothering anyone. I was hoping to get some of that out of FO4.
posted by sidereal at 3:46 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
oh god I'm going to start another Skyrim game now
posted by sidereal at 3:49 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sidereal at 3:49 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
If it's true that Charisma means almost nothing in FO4, then I am dissapoint. Role playing is the main thing in Bethesda games for me and my kids. My daughter has a char she calls The Mayor: pour everything into charisma, and hire huge bodyguards to protect you and do your dirty work. Brilliant. If you can't do that in FO4, then...wow. Just wow, Bethesda.
Charisma is still useful, the dialog system is just more pared down than it used to be. Each of the SPECIAL categories now house a series of perks (10 each), which all can be ranked up a number of times. For example, AGI has Gunslinger, which gives you a 10% boost to pistol damage with each point you invest and later some bonus effects that apply to pistols.
Charisma has a lot of cool things, like improving companions, a skill that lets you hold up lower level enemies and force them to do your bidding, as well as a number of perks that improve how you interact with settlements. So, if anything, it sounds like she'll be able to do The Mayor justice more than ever.
The only downside is that Charisma is now the only way that character build interacts with dialog. There are no perk checks, and no other SPECIAL checks (outside of maybe 1 or 2). Charisma's interaction is also fairly limited. There aren't many quests that branch in any significant way, and usually it's gated behind a random check of CHA. Any speech check will be colored Yellow, Orange or Red (depending on chance of success) and you'll get a dice roll to attempt it. Higher CHA means higher chances, but if you really, really care, then you could potential save scum any attempt you really wanted to hit. So a high CHA character isn't even really necessary to experience the smooth-talker role (such that it exists).
The other stuff you mention can all be done to varying degrees, and the settlement build offers more sim-wasteland than any of their other previous games. You still have to do combat quests to unlock more and more of the sim stuff (typically driving off raiders / ghouls / mutants that are harassing the locals, and then getting them to sign up for your mini-empire), but once you get the combat out of the way you could conceivably play the game entirely around building your junk empire. The downside is that the game's main quest is fairly one track (you have a singular purpose - find your child, get them back, get revenge), and apart from choosing what faction helps you facilitate that goal, there's really only a single path forward. Some people don't mind this, others seem to like it. I'm not a fan, personally.
posted by codacorolla at 4:15 PM on December 7, 2015
Charisma is still useful, the dialog system is just more pared down than it used to be. Each of the SPECIAL categories now house a series of perks (10 each), which all can be ranked up a number of times. For example, AGI has Gunslinger, which gives you a 10% boost to pistol damage with each point you invest and later some bonus effects that apply to pistols.
Charisma has a lot of cool things, like improving companions, a skill that lets you hold up lower level enemies and force them to do your bidding, as well as a number of perks that improve how you interact with settlements. So, if anything, it sounds like she'll be able to do The Mayor justice more than ever.
The only downside is that Charisma is now the only way that character build interacts with dialog. There are no perk checks, and no other SPECIAL checks (outside of maybe 1 or 2). Charisma's interaction is also fairly limited. There aren't many quests that branch in any significant way, and usually it's gated behind a random check of CHA. Any speech check will be colored Yellow, Orange or Red (depending on chance of success) and you'll get a dice roll to attempt it. Higher CHA means higher chances, but if you really, really care, then you could potential save scum any attempt you really wanted to hit. So a high CHA character isn't even really necessary to experience the smooth-talker role (such that it exists).
The other stuff you mention can all be done to varying degrees, and the settlement build offers more sim-wasteland than any of their other previous games. You still have to do combat quests to unlock more and more of the sim stuff (typically driving off raiders / ghouls / mutants that are harassing the locals, and then getting them to sign up for your mini-empire), but once you get the combat out of the way you could conceivably play the game entirely around building your junk empire. The downside is that the game's main quest is fairly one track (you have a singular purpose - find your child, get them back, get revenge), and apart from choosing what faction helps you facilitate that goal, there's really only a single path forward. Some people don't mind this, others seem to like it. I'm not a fan, personally.
posted by codacorolla at 4:15 PM on December 7, 2015
Man, Fallout 4 is incredibly flawed and not a good RPG. And yet I have put nearly 100 hours into it. Bethesda makes games that draw you in even though you can tell how crappy parts are.
This, but half again.
0_o
Building settlements is super fun though--I'm hoping the first big update comes with some better tools for aligning building elements, and some more variation in structures would be nice, and it would be really great if the bloody standalone walls would bloody well align with prefab components aaaaaaaargh.
If you're on PC, check out the modpos and modangle commands. You can arbitrarily manipulate the xyx coordinates and orientation of placeable objects. (modangle z for rotation once positioned. There's also setpos but it's harder to use because it requires absolute coordinates.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:21 PM on December 7, 2015
This, but half again.
0_o
Building settlements is super fun though--I'm hoping the first big update comes with some better tools for aligning building elements, and some more variation in structures would be nice, and it would be really great if the bloody standalone walls would bloody well align with prefab components aaaaaaaargh.
If you're on PC, check out the modpos and modangle commands. You can arbitrarily manipulate the xyx coordinates and orientation of placeable objects. (modangle z for rotation once positioned. There's also setpos but it's harder to use because it requires absolute coordinates.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:21 PM on December 7, 2015
The other stuff you mention can all be done to varying degrees, and the settlement build offers more sim-wasteland than any of their other previous games.
The thing is, though, that building the settlements doesn't actually do anything. Whether you build a couple thriving towns or leave the place a desolate wasteland is all the same more or less. Theoretically I guess you can use your flares or whatever to summon minutemen further afield if you build settlements... but I've never felt the need to do so in 100 hours of gameplay. It's just more of a hassle than its worth to lug the flare gun around and fire it off. By the time you do all that you might as well have just killed everything yourself. Ditto with the BOS and artillery thingies.
Any speech check will be colored Yellow, Orange or Red (depending on chance of success)
If only. It's actually colored based on difficulty. Because coloring it based on chance of success would make too much sense.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on December 7, 2015
The thing is, though, that building the settlements doesn't actually do anything. Whether you build a couple thriving towns or leave the place a desolate wasteland is all the same more or less. Theoretically I guess you can use your flares or whatever to summon minutemen further afield if you build settlements... but I've never felt the need to do so in 100 hours of gameplay. It's just more of a hassle than its worth to lug the flare gun around and fire it off. By the time you do all that you might as well have just killed everything yourself. Ditto with the BOS and artillery thingies.
Any speech check will be colored Yellow, Orange or Red (depending on chance of success)
If only. It's actually colored based on difficulty. Because coloring it based on chance of success would make too much sense.
posted by Justinian at 4:29 PM on December 7, 2015
Yeah, settlement building (like a lot of other stuff) feels sort of half there. And, not to harp on it, but the UI is abysmal. Also, I never realized that about dialog checks... I guess I totally misread the little explanation that came up and just assumed that my CHA just never really stacked up.
I feel like there's a lot of stuff that they've got on the docket for expansions (including tighter integration of settlements to gameplay). If it's anything like Skyrim, then I'm really excited to see what they do with them.
posted by codacorolla at 4:42 PM on December 7, 2015
I feel like there's a lot of stuff that they've got on the docket for expansions (including tighter integration of settlements to gameplay). If it's anything like Skyrim, then I'm really excited to see what they do with them.
posted by codacorolla at 4:42 PM on December 7, 2015
Thanks for all the info cordacorolla.
Re: settlements: I dislike escort missions and having to keep people alive in general. I already have a job, y'know? So it would be interesting to forego that entirely and see if you can still have an enjoyable game.
posted by sidereal at 4:43 PM on December 7, 2015
Re: settlements: I dislike escort missions and having to keep people alive in general. I already have a job, y'know? So it would be interesting to forego that entirely and see if you can still have an enjoyable game.
posted by sidereal at 4:43 PM on December 7, 2015
you keep forgetting to have the materials for building turrets in hand because you consolidate all your crafting stuff in one location and it just never ends
If you're going to have more than one settlement, you need to link them all together so they share the pool of junk. To do this you need to get one level of the "local leader" perk under charisma, and then create supply lines between locations in a network that connects them all. It's kind of a necessity if you're going to build anything in more than one place, which seems to be ultimately pointless but who can resist. How one is meant to figure this out without reading a wiki or something I have absolutely no idea.
posted by sfenders at 4:59 PM on December 7, 2015
If you're going to have more than one settlement, you need to link them all together so they share the pool of junk. To do this you need to get one level of the "local leader" perk under charisma, and then create supply lines between locations in a network that connects them all. It's kind of a necessity if you're going to build anything in more than one place, which seems to be ultimately pointless but who can resist. How one is meant to figure this out without reading a wiki or something I have absolutely no idea.
posted by sfenders at 4:59 PM on December 7, 2015
Make that 'xyz coordinates', above, of course. (Reposition your character & view if movement of an object along the X and Y axes doesn't seem perpendicular, because it is, and a weird perspective makes things harder.)
Someone must be able to. How else can there can be such a high population density of raiders shooting at any stranger that passes by, hundreds of years after the bombs fell, and there's still plentiful rounds of every calibre easily found in little boxes all over the land? Find the ammunition factory, learn its secrets, and shut it down, that is my new mission in Fallout 4
The Bethesda Fallouts don't worry about this level of continuity and verisimilitude in their world building. Note the presence of post-war items in pre-war safes and item caches, for starters. Because they were too lazy to create alternate versions of the leveled loot lists and properly flag those drops. There are tons of little things like this in the setting. Bottlecaps really don't work as a currency, for instance, no matter how much handwaving you do. And things that were already borderline believable in earlier Fallouts set closer to the war don't hold up 200 years down the line.
would love to be able to craft ammo though.
Mods. Bethesda never includes this because it's part of the difficulty and perk balance (scrounger). Whereas, I never bother with security/lockpicking or hacking, because of the unlock command. Different strokes.
building something up to a mod you already have still displays that you need said parts, but actually making the mod won't consume any parts. Like I said - pretty bad UI design.
You can and should put unused mods in the workbench to save carry weight (unless you need to take them to a different location, they aren't accessible over supply links). You can tell which is going to happen, because the 'activate' button on the weapon bench will say 'attach' for applying an existing mod to weapon. It says 'build' when you're making a new copy. It's true the mods don't sell for much, but you can scrap the fancy ones for their rare materials. You can also save them to 'pop' another more expensive mod off a dropped item, in order to put it on a different weapon. My major complaint is all the mods are overly-specific to their base weapon type. Most of them should at least be interchangeable between similar types.
My main problem with roleplaying is largely that quests have taken a major step backwards in terms of varying resolutions....
codacorolla sums up my thoughts on the almost non-existent RP aspect of Fallout 4. Virtually every quest is "go here and kill everything". Compare to New Vegas where your skills and stats mattered and where virtually every quest had multiple solutions.
I fully agree. Although it's good to remember that New Vegas was Obsidian, not Bethesda. Still, I feel like even Skyrim (even Oblivion?) was a better RPG. However, so far FO4 is a better RPG than FO3. Even if FO3 had slightly better storytelling, which is iffy, or a better map, which is iffier, the improved settlement and customization in FO4 tips the balance.
The downside is that the game's main quest is fairly one track (you have a singular purpose - find your child, get them back, get revenge), and apart from choosing what faction helps you facilitate that goal, there's really only a single path forward. Some people don't mind this, others seem to like it. I'm not a fan, personally.
It does feel like some direction was taken from Mass Effect and the Witchers in designing the plot. But, was Project Purity that different? Again, NV was Obsidian, not Bethesda.
The lack of skill checks does suck, but I'm finding I'm liking the new perk system way more than I expected. And there is some evidence for FO4 supporting diversity of playstyle there, as I find perks useful that many players seem to think are completely stupid. For instance, I took Aquaboy and Lead Belly early on, as I typically do. Great for travel, evasion, and survival. I also lean heavily on Chem Resistant and Party Boy because STR and END are dump stats for me until mid-to-late-game.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:03 PM on December 7, 2015
Someone must be able to. How else can there can be such a high population density of raiders shooting at any stranger that passes by, hundreds of years after the bombs fell, and there's still plentiful rounds of every calibre easily found in little boxes all over the land? Find the ammunition factory, learn its secrets, and shut it down, that is my new mission in Fallout 4
The Bethesda Fallouts don't worry about this level of continuity and verisimilitude in their world building. Note the presence of post-war items in pre-war safes and item caches, for starters. Because they were too lazy to create alternate versions of the leveled loot lists and properly flag those drops. There are tons of little things like this in the setting. Bottlecaps really don't work as a currency, for instance, no matter how much handwaving you do. And things that were already borderline believable in earlier Fallouts set closer to the war don't hold up 200 years down the line.
would love to be able to craft ammo though.
Mods. Bethesda never includes this because it's part of the difficulty and perk balance (scrounger). Whereas, I never bother with security/lockpicking or hacking, because of the unlock command. Different strokes.
building something up to a mod you already have still displays that you need said parts, but actually making the mod won't consume any parts. Like I said - pretty bad UI design.
You can and should put unused mods in the workbench to save carry weight (unless you need to take them to a different location, they aren't accessible over supply links). You can tell which is going to happen, because the 'activate' button on the weapon bench will say 'attach' for applying an existing mod to weapon. It says 'build' when you're making a new copy. It's true the mods don't sell for much, but you can scrap the fancy ones for their rare materials. You can also save them to 'pop' another more expensive mod off a dropped item, in order to put it on a different weapon. My major complaint is all the mods are overly-specific to their base weapon type. Most of them should at least be interchangeable between similar types.
My main problem with roleplaying is largely that quests have taken a major step backwards in terms of varying resolutions....
codacorolla sums up my thoughts on the almost non-existent RP aspect of Fallout 4. Virtually every quest is "go here and kill everything". Compare to New Vegas where your skills and stats mattered and where virtually every quest had multiple solutions.
I fully agree. Although it's good to remember that New Vegas was Obsidian, not Bethesda. Still, I feel like even Skyrim (even Oblivion?) was a better RPG. However, so far FO4 is a better RPG than FO3. Even if FO3 had slightly better storytelling, which is iffy, or a better map, which is iffier, the improved settlement and customization in FO4 tips the balance.
The downside is that the game's main quest is fairly one track (you have a singular purpose - find your child, get them back, get revenge), and apart from choosing what faction helps you facilitate that goal, there's really only a single path forward. Some people don't mind this, others seem to like it. I'm not a fan, personally.
It does feel like some direction was taken from Mass Effect and the Witchers in designing the plot. But, was Project Purity that different? Again, NV was Obsidian, not Bethesda.
The lack of skill checks does suck, but I'm finding I'm liking the new perk system way more than I expected. And there is some evidence for FO4 supporting diversity of playstyle there, as I find perks useful that many players seem to think are completely stupid. For instance, I took Aquaboy and Lead Belly early on, as I typically do. Great for travel, evasion, and survival. I also lean heavily on Chem Resistant and Party Boy because STR and END are dump stats for me until mid-to-late-game.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:03 PM on December 7, 2015
In a just universe Bethesda would build the engine and stuff and Obsidian would make the game. I assume those bridges are burned after the New Vegas metacritic fiasco, though.
posted by Justinian at 5:04 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 5:04 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
The lack of skill checks does suck, but I'm finding I'm liking the new perk system way more than I expected.
I think the mechanics of FO4 are almost universally a step forward. The perk system, while controversial, works decently. The power armor actually feels like power armor. The settlement stuff is cool (if it weren't pointless). The combat feels much smoother. And so on.
It's just that everything they did with those improved mechanics is entirely lackluster. The quests are terrible and the balance is non-existent. But by god its fun killing stuff.
posted by Justinian at 5:07 PM on December 7, 2015
I think the mechanics of FO4 are almost universally a step forward. The perk system, while controversial, works decently. The power armor actually feels like power armor. The settlement stuff is cool (if it weren't pointless). The combat feels much smoother. And so on.
It's just that everything they did with those improved mechanics is entirely lackluster. The quests are terrible and the balance is non-existent. But by god its fun killing stuff.
posted by Justinian at 5:07 PM on December 7, 2015
The crafting! The crafting system is a big step forward!
posted by Justinian at 5:08 PM on December 7, 2015
posted by Justinian at 5:08 PM on December 7, 2015
It does feel like some direction was taken from Mass Effect and the Witchers in designing the plot. But, was Project Purity that different? Again, NV was Obsidian, not Bethesda.
Sort of hard to say... I really don't like FO3 all that much, to be honest. I liked it a lot on release, and tried it last year in preparation for playing 4, and actually found that I actively disliked many elements, primary among them the plot. I guess the main thing is that FO3's mainquest isn't really all that stellar either, but it's also really easy to ignore. Really the only way to advance into any of the major factions starts with "MUH BOY", which really foregrounds something that's essentially the same story. Project Purity, in all of its idiocy, was easier to ignore.
Anyway, yeah, it feels like the design decision came directly from looking at other major WRPGs and saying, "let's get some of that." The main problem is that they're straddling an uncomfortable balance between blank slate open world RPG story, and named-character stuff like The Witcher (and to a lesser extent Mass Effect). So you can name your guy whatever you want, you have limited roleplaying opportunities in how you approach the game, but when it comes down to it you're really only getting one possible story unless you just intentionally ignore the main quest.
posted by codacorolla at 5:13 PM on December 7, 2015
Sort of hard to say... I really don't like FO3 all that much, to be honest. I liked it a lot on release, and tried it last year in preparation for playing 4, and actually found that I actively disliked many elements, primary among them the plot. I guess the main thing is that FO3's mainquest isn't really all that stellar either, but it's also really easy to ignore. Really the only way to advance into any of the major factions starts with "MUH BOY", which really foregrounds something that's essentially the same story. Project Purity, in all of its idiocy, was easier to ignore.
Anyway, yeah, it feels like the design decision came directly from looking at other major WRPGs and saying, "let's get some of that." The main problem is that they're straddling an uncomfortable balance between blank slate open world RPG story, and named-character stuff like The Witcher (and to a lesser extent Mass Effect). So you can name your guy whatever you want, you have limited roleplaying opportunities in how you approach the game, but when it comes down to it you're really only getting one possible story unless you just intentionally ignore the main quest.
posted by codacorolla at 5:13 PM on December 7, 2015
In a just universe Bethesda would build the engine and stuff and Obsidian would make the game.
I think the mechanics of FO4 are almost universally a step forward...It's just that everything they did with those improved mechanics is entirely lackluster.
Really the only way to advance into any of the major factions starts with "MUH BOY", which really foregrounds something that's essentially the same story. Project Purity, in all of its idiocy, was easier to ignore.
It occurs to me that things could be improved by Bethesda forbidding its writers to include any familial/ancestral/reincarnation drama in the main quest (whether first-party, as in Morrowind, FO3, Skyrim, and FO4 or third-party, as in Oblivion). Oblivion's Hero of Kvatch and NV's Courier are still somewhat tedious archetypes, but I strongly prefer them to Bethesda's usual Avatar: the Plotbender or Shakespeare lite familial vengeance setup.
Even better, someone should tell Beth that with better settlement radiant quests, better and better-interlinked regional quests (currently the sidequests) and a real economic/political sim engine under the hood, they could skip the main quest entirely, fix more engine bugs, and their core audience would be happy.
Or maybe that's just me fantasizing. The console platform sales figures probably tell the only story that matters to the people in charge at Bethesda, even if it's the PC audience that will still be modding and playing the game a year from now, or three years from now.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:45 PM on December 7, 2015
I think the mechanics of FO4 are almost universally a step forward...It's just that everything they did with those improved mechanics is entirely lackluster.
Really the only way to advance into any of the major factions starts with "MUH BOY", which really foregrounds something that's essentially the same story. Project Purity, in all of its idiocy, was easier to ignore.
It occurs to me that things could be improved by Bethesda forbidding its writers to include any familial/ancestral/reincarnation drama in the main quest (whether first-party, as in Morrowind, FO3, Skyrim, and FO4 or third-party, as in Oblivion). Oblivion's Hero of Kvatch and NV's Courier are still somewhat tedious archetypes, but I strongly prefer them to Bethesda's usual Avatar: the Plotbender or Shakespeare lite familial vengeance setup.
Even better, someone should tell Beth that with better settlement radiant quests, better and better-interlinked regional quests (currently the sidequests) and a real economic/political sim engine under the hood, they could skip the main quest entirely, fix more engine bugs, and their core audience would be happy.
Or maybe that's just me fantasizing. The console platform sales figures probably tell the only story that matters to the people in charge at Bethesda, even if it's the PC audience that will still be modding and playing the game a year from now, or three years from now.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:45 PM on December 7, 2015
Hey! In Morrowind it is very ambiguous whether you're the actual chosen one or just kind of a tool if you're paying attention to the books and the lore. I rather liked the way its story superficially took the 'chosen one' trope but tried to subvert it. Later Bethsoft games have had far less subtlety in their writing.
posted by Zalzidrax at 7:15 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Zalzidrax at 7:15 PM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're going to have more than one settlement, you need to link them all together so they share the pool of junk.
Yeah, that requires spare settlers though. And/or not mistakenly unassigning someone from e.g. guard duty because the UI doesn't tell you who's assigned to what.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:17 PM on December 7, 2015
Yeah, that requires spare settlers though. And/or not mistakenly unassigning someone from e.g. guard duty because the UI doesn't tell you who's assigned to what.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:17 PM on December 7, 2015
If they're in view of whatever resource they're assigned to -- food or a store or whatever -- it'll light up if you have the settler selected.
Which is extremely tedious to go through and should be improved, but it's there for now. I've been saving up fancy clothing in order to coordinate roles. (Shopkeepers in laundered things, defense in suits, farmers with ... militia hats? IDK yet.)
Keeping recruitment stations on and happiness at a reasonable level will keep attracting new settlers. Which you can then tell to move to different settlements when you get too many.
Deleted my TVs last night, still hoping to see if that fixes the unhappiness bug.
posted by rewil at 9:05 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Which is extremely tedious to go through and should be improved, but it's there for now. I've been saving up fancy clothing in order to coordinate roles. (Shopkeepers in laundered things, defense in suits, farmers with ... militia hats? IDK yet.)
Keeping recruitment stations on and happiness at a reasonable level will keep attracting new settlers. Which you can then tell to move to different settlements when you get too many.
Deleted my TVs last night, still hoping to see if that fixes the unhappiness bug.
posted by rewil at 9:05 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got rid of all my jukeboxes and TVs and it seemed to fix the settlement bug. My settlers can sit and stare at walls now.
posted by Justinian at 9:30 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 9:30 AM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got rid of all my jukeboxes and TVs and it seemed to fix the settlement bug.
omg you're a hipster
posted by sidereal at 12:06 PM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
omg you're a hipster
posted by sidereal at 12:06 PM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hey! In Morrowind it is very ambiguous whether you're the actual chosen one or just kind of a tool if you're paying attention to the books and the lore
Yet another reason I need to replay Morrowind. I didn't really appreciate its subtleties at the time and took the whole Nerevarine thing at face value. Although the speech at the end of Tribunal did seem to make it pretty canonical. ("Your work is not yet finished, Nerevarine...Vivec still lives...")
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:52 PM on December 8, 2015
Yet another reason I need to replay Morrowind. I didn't really appreciate its subtleties at the time and took the whole Nerevarine thing at face value. Although the speech at the end of Tribunal did seem to make it pretty canonical. ("Your work is not yet finished, Nerevarine...Vivec still lives...")
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:52 PM on December 8, 2015
Since learning the other day that I could tell settlers what to wear, I am now on a quest to find all the tuxedos, patrolmen's sunglasses, and sea captains' hats. We are a classy yet authoritative bunch.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have an entire settlement wearing red dresses, sequin dresses, and various colors of laundered dresses, including the dudes. To be created: a Mad Max settlement where everyone is wearing "road leathers," a settlement where they wear the various unique clothing items, and a settlement of hazard suits and cleanroom suits. I might also establish a monastery and nunnery by sending all the men from Settlement A to Settlement B and all the women from Settlement B to Settlement A.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:50 AM on December 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:50 AM on December 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
omg you're a hipster
posted by sidereal at 3:06 PM on December 8
Heh, I just started to dress my different settlements in themes/uniforms. Now I need to stock up on flannel/jeans and black rimmed glasses. (Highly recommended: Long johns and bowler hats and tire irons.)
posted by mcrandello at 4:44 AM on December 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sidereal at 3:06 PM on December 8
Heh, I just started to dress my different settlements in themes/uniforms. Now I need to stock up on flannel/jeans and black rimmed glasses. (Highly recommended: Long johns and bowler hats and tire irons.)
posted by mcrandello at 4:44 AM on December 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have a few hopes for the DLC:
> Moving to a new location, and therefore starting fresh with the story. This would be in line with every DLC so far, and I don't see a reason to change. A few cool East Coast locales would be the Disney-ish amusement park turned settlement that's in the Fallout Bible, a return to DC (no thanks), whatever's left of New York, maybe an annexed Canadian territory...
> Integrating settlement building with the whole game in some meaningful way. Alongside that, sprucing up the UI for interacting with settlements. I could see them doing an entire DLC centered on settlements, honestly.
> More weapon bodies! The modding system is great, but that doesn't change the fact that there's essentially 2 - 3 of every weapon type, plus a few pipe variants that aren't that useful outside of the first 10 levels. I've also heard that melee weapons are lacking in mod-ability, so that too. More weapon mods too, and a slight tweak to the legendary modifiers that are available.
> Rebalancing the perk tree. I'm not sure that this will happen in an official capacity, but there are a number of head scratchers in the perk tree that make you wonder how they got out of QA.
posted by codacorolla at 10:01 AM on December 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
> Moving to a new location, and therefore starting fresh with the story. This would be in line with every DLC so far, and I don't see a reason to change. A few cool East Coast locales would be the Disney-ish amusement park turned settlement that's in the Fallout Bible, a return to DC (no thanks), whatever's left of New York, maybe an annexed Canadian territory...
> Integrating settlement building with the whole game in some meaningful way. Alongside that, sprucing up the UI for interacting with settlements. I could see them doing an entire DLC centered on settlements, honestly.
> More weapon bodies! The modding system is great, but that doesn't change the fact that there's essentially 2 - 3 of every weapon type, plus a few pipe variants that aren't that useful outside of the first 10 levels. I've also heard that melee weapons are lacking in mod-ability, so that too. More weapon mods too, and a slight tweak to the legendary modifiers that are available.
> Rebalancing the perk tree. I'm not sure that this will happen in an official capacity, but there are a number of head scratchers in the perk tree that make you wonder how they got out of QA.
posted by codacorolla at 10:01 AM on December 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
My hopes are as follows:
1) Quests with multiple solutions that do not amount to "GO HERE KILL EVERYTHING".
I suspect I will be disappointed.
posted by Justinian at 1:24 PM on December 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
1) Quests with multiple solutions that do not amount to "GO HERE KILL EVERYTHING".
I suspect I will be disappointed.
posted by Justinian at 1:24 PM on December 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maybe they'll shift the main writing team over to TES:6 and the small portion of writers who actually create interesting quests will be the B-Team responsible for the handful of interesting quests in FO4? It's a pipedream, but who knows.
posted by codacorolla at 1:36 PM on December 10, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 1:36 PM on December 10, 2015
maybe an annexed Canadian territory...
I would sell an organ to see Toronto be a setting. The ruined CN Tower and Skydome would be incredible. And most of our downtown is linked up via PATH, which connects with subway systems, and is believable in the Fallout universe. Plus islands out in the harbour (ruined amusement park! with child-Ghouls...), a valley bisecting the city... I'm biased obviously but I think it'd be a cool DLC location. Would be a cooler FO5 location but that won't happen.
DLC set in Europe or China (difficult to execute I think) or Australia/NZ or the Middle East would be way more interesting though. What happened everywhere else?
> Rebalancing the perk tree. I'm not sure that this will happen in an official capacity, but there are a number of head scratchers in the perk tree that make you wonder how they got out of QA.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not good at dissecting games that way and am usually just like, "it's arbitrary stuff and doesn't really cohere," but I'd be really interested to learn why it's actually broken.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:45 PM on December 10, 2015
I would sell an organ to see Toronto be a setting. The ruined CN Tower and Skydome would be incredible. And most of our downtown is linked up via PATH, which connects with subway systems, and is believable in the Fallout universe. Plus islands out in the harbour (ruined amusement park! with child-Ghouls...), a valley bisecting the city... I'm biased obviously but I think it'd be a cool DLC location. Would be a cooler FO5 location but that won't happen.
DLC set in Europe or China (difficult to execute I think) or Australia/NZ or the Middle East would be way more interesting though. What happened everywhere else?
> Rebalancing the perk tree. I'm not sure that this will happen in an official capacity, but there are a number of head scratchers in the perk tree that make you wonder how they got out of QA.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not good at dissecting games that way and am usually just like, "it's arbitrary stuff and doesn't really cohere," but I'd be really interested to learn why it's actually broken.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:45 PM on December 10, 2015
A few off the top of my head:
> VANS is useless. It's sort of a neat idea, but in a game with fast travel and a quest arrow I can't imagine why anyone would take it. I've also heard that it's bugged, so that in instances where it would be useful (trying to find an unclear entrance to a building) it also has a good chance of not helping. I don't see them changing this, since they put so much time into developing it, but I can't imagine many players really use it. I feel the same way about Awareness in PER, since pretty much everything's weakness on Very Hard is: shoot it with something a lot.
> Top level lockpicking and hacking are definitely useless because of how easy the minigame is. I had someone on the order of 200 lockpicks by the end of my game, and had never failed a computer minigame. Not breaking picks and not being locked out aren't bonuses at level ~40 when you get them - I would barely even care if I found a skill magazine that did that, much less spending a level on it.
> The lead belly perk is useless for two reasons: 1, you can cook far superior versions of food that deal no rads nearly immediately, and 2, you get so much rad away that even if you do have to take rad damage from eating it's essentially meaningless.
> Lifegiver is a noob trap. Once you get to higher levels, +20 health is meaningless. The regenerating life bit is sort of cool, but you get that at a point where you're probably shrugging off damage with a combination of ballistic weave and power armor, and you've essentially spent 3 perks to get there.
> Rad Resistant is useless for a similar reason that lead belly is. You get so much rad away, rad-x, and radiation protective gear that using perks, plus Aquaboy removes radiation from swimming (a major source), and radiation is typically just a small trap in a dungeon outside of the glowing sea. And it takes three perk points to max out!
There are a few other that I don't think are useless, but don't personally like (mainly Night Person and Solar Powered), but those are the ones where the perk is either outright useless, only useful for the first ten levels, or made obsolete because of how much of a certain item you find.
posted by codacorolla at 7:02 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
> VANS is useless. It's sort of a neat idea, but in a game with fast travel and a quest arrow I can't imagine why anyone would take it. I've also heard that it's bugged, so that in instances where it would be useful (trying to find an unclear entrance to a building) it also has a good chance of not helping. I don't see them changing this, since they put so much time into developing it, but I can't imagine many players really use it. I feel the same way about Awareness in PER, since pretty much everything's weakness on Very Hard is: shoot it with something a lot.
> Top level lockpicking and hacking are definitely useless because of how easy the minigame is. I had someone on the order of 200 lockpicks by the end of my game, and had never failed a computer minigame. Not breaking picks and not being locked out aren't bonuses at level ~40 when you get them - I would barely even care if I found a skill magazine that did that, much less spending a level on it.
> The lead belly perk is useless for two reasons: 1, you can cook far superior versions of food that deal no rads nearly immediately, and 2, you get so much rad away that even if you do have to take rad damage from eating it's essentially meaningless.
> Lifegiver is a noob trap. Once you get to higher levels, +20 health is meaningless. The regenerating life bit is sort of cool, but you get that at a point where you're probably shrugging off damage with a combination of ballistic weave and power armor, and you've essentially spent 3 perks to get there.
> Rad Resistant is useless for a similar reason that lead belly is. You get so much rad away, rad-x, and radiation protective gear that using perks, plus Aquaboy removes radiation from swimming (a major source), and radiation is typically just a small trap in a dungeon outside of the glowing sea. And it takes three perk points to max out!
There are a few other that I don't think are useless, but don't personally like (mainly Night Person and Solar Powered), but those are the ones where the perk is either outright useless, only useful for the first ten levels, or made obsolete because of how much of a certain item you find.
posted by codacorolla at 7:02 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why does my Tenpines Bluff have 37 people? Thirty seven. That's almost as many as four tens, and that's terrible.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:36 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:36 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Awareness in PER is useful if you want to be paranoid about synths infiltrating your settlements.
The other settlers will eventually kill any synths, human or otherwise, though. I guess synth brahmin were more slightly successful than the gorillas.
posted by rewil at 11:35 AM on December 11, 2015
The other settlers will eventually kill any synths, human or otherwise, though. I guess synth brahmin were more slightly successful than the gorillas.
posted by rewil at 11:35 AM on December 11, 2015
DLC set in Europe or China
Hong Kong. They can crib the abridged city layout from Sleeping Dogs.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:54 PM on December 11, 2015
Hong Kong. They can crib the abridged city layout from Sleeping Dogs.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:54 PM on December 11, 2015
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