Either Proud To Be A Racist Or Sorry To Be A Racist; But A Racist All The Same...

March 14, 2002 6:40 PM

Either Proud To Be A Racist Or Sorry To Be A Racist; But A Racist All The Same... No, it's not easy being white. Here's an excellent article by Robert Jensen in Mighty Organ which identifies racism in its most well-meaning form: "Unlike Joe, who was hiding his weaknesses, I think Jim was hiding his strengths. Just as Joe needs to be accountable for his actions, so does Jim. Instead of saying "I am still a racist," it would be far more honest, and more courageous, for him to say, "I have worked hard to overcome much of the racism that this culture handed me. I think I have done a pretty good job. But precisely because of that fact, I have even more of a stake in having other folks - non-white and white - keep an eye on my behavior and hold me accountable." Right. Racism isn't all the same - but can one admit one's racism and not want to be a racist at the same time? Isn't this paternalism under a liberal guise? So, what is the balance between condescension, white guilt, political correctness and conscious racial prejudice?
posted by MiguelCardoso (38 comments total)

So, what is the balance between condescension, white guilt, political correctness and conscious racial prejudice?

In twenty five words or less. Yikes.

I dunno, Miguel, but I do highly recommend this recent essay (along with all his other writing) by Mike Golby from South Africa on racism.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:52 PM on March 14, 2002

Oh racism is simply stupid.

If you value one person on his skin color and stop your evaluation or allow skin color to affect your judgment, you're effectively giving skin color a value.

And it doesn't have any value at all. It's just a color.
posted by elpapacito at 6:58 PM on March 14, 2002

I don't know, Miguel. "working hard to overcome my racism". The intentions are good, I suppose. Unfortunately, there's not a human being on this planet who is completely free from prejudiced thought, so by that token, we'll never "overcome."
The tone of this article seems to imply to me that we should add even more caveats to a subject already riddled with so many hot buttons and guilt issues to make rational discussion almost impossible between those who are not already very close.

Secondly, I don't buy into the "collective guilt" of the "white culture" for two reasons-

One, there is no overarching white culture, merely a lot of little ones. The only culture all US whites share in common is the general American culture, which black people are a huge part of.

Two, I reject the notion of collective guilt, just like I reject the notion of collective pride. Feel guilty or proud for what you've done not what your people have done. The notion of inherited guilt is uncomfortably close to visiting the sins of the father unto the son.

Now, I'm aware that black people have to put up with a lot of shit that I as a white male do not. The best thing us white folks can do IMO, is call other whites on their racism when they display it and vote and act our conscience when race is an issue.
posted by jonmc at 7:01 PM on March 14, 2002

(Just a quick note, elpapacito, that the essay I linked to above was in response to this, in which Meryl (in the context of anti-semitism) argues passionately that saying racism "is stupid" or that racists "are idiots" is doing a massive disservice to those who have been discriminated against, and cheapens the suffering they've undergone.

Not sure if I agree, but I thought it germane.)

Back to your regularly-scheduled Cardoso-link...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:09 PM on March 14, 2002

I am working hard to overcome a lot of the white guilt that this culture has saddled me with.

I admit that I treat black people differently. Not worse--not abusively--but certainly not the same as I treat white people (and, now that I think about it, most other minority groups).

I found when I worked retail and food-service jobs that whenever a black person stepped up to the counter a little buzzer went off in my mind that said, "oh, this guy's black!", and suddenly I was on my best behavior. I was less familiar, less casual.. afraid, in short, to say anything or do anything that could be deemed racist. There's no way they couldn't have noticed, and in fact I'm sure it's something they saw all the time.

Handling race relations with kid gloves isn't the same as improving them. The concept of "white guilt" contributes as much as anything else to the persisting alienation along racial lines in this country.
posted by Hildago at 7:35 PM on March 14, 2002

I treat black people differently. Often, I don't lay down phat rhymes to them white folk.
posted by holloway at 7:53 PM on March 14, 2002

but can one admit one's racism and not want to be a racist at the same time?

all people have flaws. accepting those flaws is the first step to overcoming them.
posted by will at 7:59 PM on March 14, 2002

The article and the post were satire, right?
posted by Mack Twain at 8:06 PM on March 14, 2002

Did you hear the one about the two...

ahh fergit it.

posted by pekar wood at 8:06 PM on March 14, 2002

Thanks, Miguel. This is a fresh perspective on an extremely poorly-understood issue.

However, I don't think anything on your laundry list (condescension, white guilt, political correctness and conscious racial prejudice) pertains to the thrust of the essay at all, which is simply that white people who have made progress in unlearning their racism and should not be afraid to say so.
posted by sudama at 8:27 PM on March 14, 2002

(Lose that "and", sorry.)
posted by sudama at 8:28 PM on March 14, 2002

For example, when I have a white student who does poorly on an assignment or fails an exam, I think to myself, "That student did a crappy job." I see a student, not a white student.

If a black student messes up, I have to struggle not to let myself think, "That black student messed up." If I am thinking about it, I am careful not to make that mistake.

The other day I was describing an event that occurred in university to a co-worker. I said, "So my History professor, this elderly black gentelman, says...", and my co-worker, an elderly white guy, said,
"why'd you do that?"
"What?" I replied.
"Describe him as a black man."
Hmmm. why indeed? When we tell stories, do we add detail to influence, or merely to inform?
You, Miguel, as a journalist, understand that every word choice, every turn of phrase, is an editorial decision. In journalism school, we were told that objectivity was an unattainable goal, yet one that should be strived for. Perhaps a society in which we are no longer described by our physical differences is also an unattainable. At any rate, I don't want to live in such a place, for it reeks of a drab uniformity, an Orwellian grey.
posted by gnz2001 at 8:43 PM on March 14, 2002

Racism - The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

I don't understand the question. Surely no one would dispute that the British are superior ;-)

'American culture' ???????

I would argue that white guilt does not go far enough in describing the situation in the US. The history of racism in America does nothing but totally contradict the ideals set out by your founders. If asked what single word best describes American history - Hypocracy - would have to rank highly. Your nation is meant to be built upon equality and freedom. Invalidate those ideals, and what are you left with.

I personally don't see how the US can continue to function indefinitely when the basis of your society is a lie. The pillars that America is proclaimed to be built upon hold little basis in reality. It will be interesting to see how you cope in 20-40 years time when the hispantic population takes over. Ask the British, ask the Romans.....you can only dominate for so long before you are brought down by your own weight.

---Late night bollocks. Just felt like a rant. I doubt that there is any truth in what I say, is there? I'll have to read it again tomorrow, and make up my mind then.
posted by RobertLoch at 8:46 PM on March 14, 2002

Er, isn't the truth about the founding of America basically that it all came about because a dozen rich land-owners and land-speculators, some of whom owned slaves, were out to get as rich as possible? Had nothing to do with wanting freedom and rights and "pillars of America," and everything to do with a quick buck.

Could well be wrong. But I swear I read this tidbit on MeFi, so it must be true! :-)
posted by five fresh fish at 8:57 PM on March 14, 2002

I think "white power" pretty well describes the situation in the US, loath as most are to admit it.
posted by sudama at 8:59 PM on March 14, 2002

I heard the North Atlantic was fished out, but I see they are still sending out the fleet.
posted by Mack Twain at 9:06 PM on March 14, 2002

Yea, Robert. That superior British cuisine is a real sign of culture.
No FFF, there were principled individuals among the framers, not just greedy bastards.
Sudama: Power rests in the ideas, and can be wrested, each election, from whomever the public disagrees with.
Seriously, the United States fought a very costly Civil War because of that schizophrenia. It was the most severe of many crises that result from the grand experiment that is America. It's a work in progress, and laudable, because it is still progressing toward that goal, where the deeds meet the ideal set out by the words.
posted by gnz2001 at 9:07 PM on March 14, 2002

Yea, Robert. That superior British cuisine is a real sign of culture.
No FFF, there were principled individuals among the framers, not just greedy bastards.
Sudama: Power rests in the ideas, and can be wrested, each election, from whomever the public disagrees with.
Seriously, the United States fought a very costly Civil War because of that schizophrenia. It was the most severe of many crises that result from the grand experiment that is America. It's a work in progress, and laudable, because it is still progressing toward that goal, where the deeds meet the ideal set out by the words.
posted by gnz2001 at 9:08 PM on March 14, 2002

damn. hate when that happens.
posted by gnz2001 at 9:08 PM on March 14, 2002

Subtle, Mack.
posted by dhartung at 10:02 PM on March 14, 2002

But later I realized that precisely by making an abstract topic real, by admitting that I was struggling with a very serious manifestation of the culture's racism, I had threatened my colleagues who did not want to see themselves that way. To give voice to the problem - even if I only talked about myself - was to make it too real, too threatening.
posted by sudama at 10:09 PM on March 14, 2002

work in progess

perhaps?

The argument is larger than you would think...
posted by y2karl at 10:31 PM on March 14, 2002

I find white guilt amazingly condescending. Walking on eggshells around people because of their race sure feels just as bad as yelling epithets to me. Just treat everyone the same on the basis of their innate asshole-ness.
posted by owillis at 10:37 PM on March 14, 2002

Consider the titles in The New Abolitionist Bookstore
How informed is your opinion?
Just askin'...
posted by y2karl at 10:38 PM on March 14, 2002

Nothing is simple, owillis, and it's not about 'white guilt'--another strawman--for me but rather an in depth examination of a very complex and intertwined social history we have going on here in this country. For example, consider this interview with the author of How The Irish Became White...
posted by y2karl at 10:53 PM on March 14, 2002

I've read chunks of Ignatiev's book and as an Irish-American, I found it interesting and I also appreciated it's examination of how oppressed immigrant groups such as the Irish were inculcated into the institutional racism of the time. I've also read Race Traitor and found it interesting as well.
Unfortuantely, the New Abolitionist's main idea(rejecting the whole idea of whiteness) is inherently flawed, for me anyway;since I've never embraced the idea of "whiteness" in the first place.
I mean, I enjoy being Irish-American, I enjoy being Italian-American, most of the time I enjoy simply being an American, but being "white" quite frankly never meant shit to me.
I realize of course that people do confer certain things on those of us who are caucasian and I have personal experience with this. When I worked in Miami, I was the only non-Latino salesman in our store. One day I was selling a PC to a white woman and pitching our stores training courses to her. She asked me if the trainer spoke English. I said "Yes, of course." "But does she have one of those accent's where she says 'jou' instead of 'you', I hate that"....and it occured to me that she hadd approached me to sell her the machine because I was the only anglo in the store, which was a bit disheartening, but what could I do, refuse the sale based on her prejudices? The best any of us can do is try and show the more ignorant among us the flaws in their thinking and try and change their minds.
posted by jonmc at 11:10 PM on March 14, 2002

Unfortunately, the New Abolitionist's main idea (rejecting the whole idea of whiteness) is inherently flawed, for me anyway; since I've never embraced the idea of "whiteness" in the first place.

This confuses me. It sure sounds like you agree with them.

The best any of us can do is try and show the more ignorant among us the flaws in their thinking and try and change their minds.

That's good, but I would challenge you to take this 2 steps further:

1) Give people of color the benefit of the doubt when they identify racism (what is the alternative?)

2) Reconsider your responsibility in light of the white privilege (or, as I sometimes call it, "white power") that confers unjust material advantage on you at nearly every turn (not to mention psychological -- who gets to think of themselves as "simply American" these days?). Is your responsibility simply to refrain from embrace? Is that the same as grudging acceptance?
posted by sudama at 11:55 PM on March 14, 2002

Give people of color the benefit of the doubt when they identify racism (what is the alternative?)

Why? Some people just have a chip on their shoulder and call racism on everything. "Damn it, he cut me off. That must be because I'm black." It's silly and devalues real racism when its encountered. Plus, isn't it a bit racist to believe one person's cry of racism because of the color of their skin?
posted by owillis at 12:07 AM on March 15, 2002

What tires me most is the idea that "diversity" should only mean diversity of skin color and, along with that, the implication that all people with a particular skin color share the same view of the world. George W. Bush and I happen to have similarly-colored skin. Our values, our assumptions, our knowledge, opinions--as far as I am aware--have very little in common (and that's just an easy example. No offence to the republicans out there. I doubt Al Gore and I would have much to talk about over beers either).
posted by wheat at 12:24 AM on March 15, 2002

"White" doesn't mean shit to me, either, y2karl. I've had incidences where I'm getting comfortable with a new friend, only to have him tell a story about "jewing" someone down, and I realize that perhaps he'd have been among those tossing my people into ovens and shallow graves, just 60 years ago. Do you back away from a friendship like that? Or perhaps the better course is to explain why that comment sucks. My kids don't take any shit at all. If they hear someone tell a racist joke, or make a racist comment, they climb right up in the offenders grill. Face it, we're all provincial, ethnocentric, frightened children in some ways, but many are working away from that. The point is, as sudama stated, that those who have come a long way should be able to at least grant themselves some grudging credit for the work done so far.
posted by gnz2001 at 8:29 AM on March 15, 2002

Face it, we're all provincial, ethnocentric, frightened children in some ways, but many are working away from that. The point is, as sudama stated, that those who have come a long way should be able to at least grant themselves some grudging credit for the work done so far.

Hear hear, gnz2001!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:33 AM on March 15, 2002

You're a Nazi if you talk about "jewing" someone done? Sheeyit. And I suppose you're completely unsalvagable if you talk about getting as "horny as Frenchman," as "inscrutable as the Chinese," or are "as cold as an Eskimo."

How easy it is to become all outraged over colloquialisms.

Think it'd be okay to say "as rigged as a Mugabe election," or would that be considered an insult to all black Africans?

(For that matter, I suppose one could say "as rigged as a Florida election," too...)
posted by five fresh fish at 8:45 AM on March 15, 2002

I have always found the rhetorical move of white leftists to "confess" their racism to be utterly vain and useless ... if not actively disengenuous.

Far from incurring punishment, the "confession" typically bolsters the confessor's political or tactical insistences or prescriptions, and frequently coerces the people of color who are the audiences of the confession into not opposing what the confessor is advocating, since they've demonstrated the depth of their supposed commitment.
posted by MattD at 8:48 AM on March 15, 2002

White does mean more than shit to me, gnz2001. We've come a long way from days I can remember, days of firehoses and beatings and the bombing of churches. The sub ject of race is still so complex and unresolved. I posted those sites to show viewpoints more than to preach. We have come a long way. And I agree with what owillis says about relex crybaby calls of 'racism.'

But saying white don't mean shit to me... It's a little too early for that backpatting, as the details in yours and jonmc's answers weould seem to indicate. Black or white here on MetaFilter, who has that much continuous social contact--and to what percentage?--with members of other races outside of work or as the result of contacts with inlaws through a mixed marriage in the family? Race still means a great deal, don't kid yourself.
posted by y2karl at 8:53 AM on March 15, 2002

An interesting sidebar here--I got this today from a listener of my Miinstrel show.

De Tocqueville and Beaumont's observations on race still resonate for us today. De Tocqueville thought that slavery and the results thereof and relations between black and white were the unresolved riddles of America's future:

If I were called upon to predict the future, I should say that the abolition of slavery will, in the common course of things, increase the repugnance of the white population for the blacks. The danger of a conflict between the white and the black inhabitants perpetually haunts the imagination of the Americans, like a painful dream.

-- Alexis de Tocqueville, 1830

Consider the length of memorry and misery in, say, the former Yugoslavia, and remember we still have a long ways to go.
posted by y2karl at 9:25 AM on March 15, 2002

Ah! And here I was worried that two-and-a-half hours had gone by without a single word. Pardon me while I go slip into something conspicuously less comfortable and more akin to a hairshirt... (Oh, don't worry, I've missed you too, Adam. At the very least you have a philosophical and intellectual consistency other MeFi-ers couldn't even dream of!)
posted by m.polo at 9:44 AM on March 15, 2002

wonderchicken: What ? Pointing out that racism is stupid is a disservice to victims of racism ? I don't think so.

Quoting myself :) :

If you value one person on his skin color and stop your evaluation or allow skin color to affect your judgment, you're effectively giving skin color a value.

Let's do a magical trick and say I stopped my evaluation of persons that are racist, and judging them "stupid idiots"
because they simply state "I'm a racist"

I didn't.

I just evaluated racism itself, giving it a 0 value. In my experience people giving a value of X > 0 to anything that has clearly no value is probably stupid. I've added probably because a single statement usually isn't enough to judge a person behavior or mental skills.

Where's the disservice ? Discussing about racism is like discussing about the sex of the angels : useless. Not because we want racism to be forgotten, but because pointing out it's 0 value, the wrong assumptions that fuel it is probably the best way to fight racism outbreaks.
posted by elpapacito at 9:50 AM on March 15, 2002

You're a Nazi if you talk about "jewing" someone done? Sheeyit.

"Jewing someone down" is a colloquialsm that is charged with a vicious and untrue stereotype. How far a trip is it from the frame of reference that allows for that sort of negative stereotyping to the next step, enforcing a law requiring a star be sewn onto your clothing? My experience is that folks who would use this colloquialism need to pick up a check themselves from time to time.

Black or white here on MetaFilter, who has that much continuous social contact--and to what percentage?--with members of other races outside of work or as the result of contacts with inlaws through a mixed marriage in the family? Race still means a great deal, don't kid yourself.

You make a good point, y2karl. I thought I was making the same point myself. There is indeed much work left to be done. Yet we have come far.
posted by gnz2001 at 10:35 AM on March 15, 2002