Ballantine: An elegant IPA for a more civilized age
December 21, 2015 7:12 PM Subscribe
It's a pretty cool article, though, in as much as it captures the enjoyment of researching, conjecturing, guesswork and tinkering.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:35 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Wolfdog at 7:35 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I really thought the link text said "Deer" and not "Beer" and now I'm kinda disappointed
posted by clockzero at 7:35 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by clockzero at 7:35 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Aw Ballantine! I remember the logo, and that they had a rebus under the cap, but I was too young to drink when it was around. Neat that it used to be an IPA, and pretty funny that Pabst bought the brand, changed it to a lager to match contemporary tastes in the '60s/'70s, and is now remaking it as an IPA again for the same reason.
posted by drinkyclown at 7:37 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by drinkyclown at 7:37 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
They tried to bring back a 136-year old deer, but it turned out skunked.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:37 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 7:37 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
from Wikipedia
Writer/journalist Hunter S. Thompson mentions drinking Ballantine Ale twice in his novel Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. At the beginning of Chapter 12, Thompson writes, "Into the Ballantine Ale now, zombie drunk and nervous." Later in Chapter 12, Thompson writes, "'Ballantine Ale,' I said ... a very mystic long shot, unknown between Newark and San Francisco. He served it up, ice-cold. I relaxed. Suddenly everything was going right; I was finally getting the breaks."[21] It is worth noting that Thompson's book was based on a trip he took with his attorney in March and April 1971, approximately one year before Ballantine sold to Falstaff.posted by aydeejones at 7:40 PM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I really thought the link text said "Deer" and not "Beer" and now I'm kinda disappointed
How else are we going to recreate the original Jäger recipe?
posted by Drinky Die at 7:42 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
How else are we going to recreate the original Jäger recipe?
posted by Drinky Die at 7:42 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
They tried to bring back a 136-year old deer, but it was skunked.
I was switching between tabs quickly while grading my students' papers (grades due tomorrow SHIT) and I saw "Deer" and had this brief-but-vivid thought about a deer suspended in ale like that butter that they've found in Irish bogs
posted by clockzero at 7:42 PM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I was switching between tabs quickly while grading my students' papers (grades due tomorrow SHIT) and I saw "Deer" and had this brief-but-vivid thought about a deer suspended in ale like that butter that they've found in Irish bogs
posted by clockzero at 7:42 PM on December 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Strange, I definitely remember drinking these purchased at various NYC bodegas in the early 2000s. Very much looking forward to trying this stuff.
posted by STFUDonnie at 8:01 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by STFUDonnie at 8:01 PM on December 21, 2015
Huh, that's a cool story. Apparently a store pretty close to me has it in stock, so I might be making a trip there tomorrow.
posted by codacorolla at 8:06 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 8:06 PM on December 21, 2015
So uh, I notice it didn't actually mention any comparison done by people who'd tasted the original...it has to happen at some point.
posted by LogicalDash at 8:17 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by LogicalDash at 8:17 PM on December 21, 2015
The culture of beer is fascinating to me. I'll admit that I had written off Pabst as a hipster beer (much like 'Gansett here in RI) but this is really interesting.
posted by Ruki at 8:17 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by Ruki at 8:17 PM on December 21, 2015
Pabst also 'saved' National Bohemian, a local Baltimore beer. It was formerly owned by the owner of the Orioles, and brewed in the city. The beer-pocalypse of the 1970s happened, and Natty Boh merged with a Canadian company, moving production off premise. It sort of went out of style during that time, and through a number of mergers, Pabst ended up with the rights. Recently they began producing kegs of the stuff, meaning that Natty would be available on draft for the first time in Baltimore in like 30 years or whatever. Natty Boh is now a hipster beer in Baltimore and the surrounding areas, sort of supplanting other cheap status symbols (like PBR), and the Boh logo has become (almost a cliche at this point) a symbol of the city.
It's very, very clever marketing, and I believe that Pabst has several other brands that fit the same description, like Lone Star and Rainier.
posted by codacorolla at 8:27 PM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's very, very clever marketing, and I believe that Pabst has several other brands that fit the same description, like Lone Star and Rainier.
posted by codacorolla at 8:27 PM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
All I can think is that Martin Crane will be so happy.
Martin: Oh, that's it! I know I should have stocked my old Ballantines
as soon as they stopped making it. Now, I can't find a single
can...Parade just won't be the same without Ballantine.
Niles: Is anything the same to you without Ballantine?
Martin: Sure, lots of stuff. [beat] No, not really.
posted by ilana at 8:48 PM on December 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
Martin: Oh, that's it! I know I should have stocked my old Ballantines
as soon as they stopped making it. Now, I can't find a single
can...Parade just won't be the same without Ballantine.
Niles: Is anything the same to you without Ballantine?
Martin: Sure, lots of stuff. [beat] No, not really.
posted by ilana at 8:48 PM on December 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
I never understood how one would let a brand go to seed that had a fricking Jasper Johns bronze among its cultural detritus.
posted by mwhybark at 8:48 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by mwhybark at 8:48 PM on December 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
I had written off Pabst as a hipster beer
Natty Boh is now a hipster beer in Baltimore and the surrounding areas, sort of supplanting other cheap status symbols (like PBR)
I was hoping my city's collective hate turning away from hipsters and towards techies would have spread nationally by now--and allow us to talk sanely about PBR. People don't drink it because it's a "status symbol". People drink it because it's ~$2 a can, and way better than anything else near that price point. Being overly concerned with how the things you consume defines you is a beer snob affectation, not a hipster one.
posted by danny the boy at 9:29 PM on December 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
Natty Boh is now a hipster beer in Baltimore and the surrounding areas, sort of supplanting other cheap status symbols (like PBR)
I was hoping my city's collective hate turning away from hipsters and towards techies would have spread nationally by now--and allow us to talk sanely about PBR. People don't drink it because it's a "status symbol". People drink it because it's ~$2 a can, and way better than anything else near that price point. Being overly concerned with how the things you consume defines you is a beer snob affectation, not a hipster one.
posted by danny the boy at 9:29 PM on December 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
Being overly concerned with how the things you consume defines you is a beer snob affectation, not a hipster one.
Pretty sure that works for both groups.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:36 PM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Pretty sure that works for both groups.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:36 PM on December 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
People most assuredly drink it for both reasons. Also, if you ask people what they know about PBR one of the things will be 'it tastes like a horse pissed into a complicated chilling device that eventually dripped into my mouth' and 'it's hipster beer'. We're talking about perception, not reality.
posted by codacorolla at 9:39 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 9:39 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my neck of Brooklyn, Narraganset has been steadily outpacing PBR as the cheap beer of choice, largely because it's dirt cheap but lacks the taint of hipster affectation. Then, as 'Ganset drinking spreads, it itself is in the process of becoming a form of hipster affectation, and so the cycle continues.
Oh well, at least we'll always have Yuengling.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:10 PM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh well, at least we'll always have Yuengling.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:10 PM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately when Tom Waits sings:
posted by komara at 10:14 PM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Well he came home from the warhe's probably referring to Ballantine's Scotch whisky instead of this beer-thing.
with a party in his head
and an idea for a fireworks display
and he knew that he'd be ready with
a stainless steel machete
and a half a pint of Ballentine's
each day"
posted by komara at 10:14 PM on December 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
codacorolla: "I believe that Pabst has several other brands that fit the same description, like Lone Star and Rainier."
In the Northwest, they have not just Rainier but also Olympia, whose motto is "It's the Water". I actually enjoy it well enough but I also like to kid that they could just take out the "the" from their motto: "It's Water". I never really got the old joke "Why is American beer like making love in a canoe? Because they're both fucking close to water." until I tried stuff like PBR or Olympia (or, I guess, Coors Light too?). My introduction to American beer was through the dumptrucks full of hops known as West Coast IPAs which, whatever one may think of them, can hardly be described as "fucking close to water".
Anyways, this was an interesting article and I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the Ballantine IPAs. I'd definitely be up for trying a somewhat less hoppy IPA.
posted by mhum at 10:33 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
In the Northwest, they have not just Rainier but also Olympia, whose motto is "It's the Water". I actually enjoy it well enough but I also like to kid that they could just take out the "the" from their motto: "It's Water". I never really got the old joke "Why is American beer like making love in a canoe? Because they're both fucking close to water." until I tried stuff like PBR or Olympia (or, I guess, Coors Light too?). My introduction to American beer was through the dumptrucks full of hops known as West Coast IPAs which, whatever one may think of them, can hardly be described as "fucking close to water".
Anyways, this was an interesting article and I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the Ballantine IPAs. I'd definitely be up for trying a somewhat less hoppy IPA.
posted by mhum at 10:33 PM on December 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have you tried Rolling Rock? That's my favorite beer water.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:35 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 10:35 PM on December 21, 2015
I just see that Ballantine logo and it looks familiar.
Now, let me check when the Biohazard symbol was designed ... 1966.
Now, when did they say Ballantine became unpopular ... "toward the end of the 1960s"
COINCIDENCE?
Probably.
posted by ckape at 10:56 PM on December 21, 2015
Now, let me check when the Biohazard symbol was designed ... 1966.
Now, when did they say Ballantine became unpopular ... "toward the end of the 1960s"
COINCIDENCE?
Probably.
posted by ckape at 10:56 PM on December 21, 2015
mhum, that joke was a lot more accurate before the craft beer explosion, when generally speaking your only options were Bud, Bud Light, Coors Light, and Miller Light.
posted by sauril at 10:57 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by sauril at 10:57 PM on December 21, 2015
as somebody born in connecticut but more or less converted to a boston-ite: i much prefer gansett to PBR, or miller (light or highlife), bud, or coors. it is just my favorite cheap beer, bar none, based entirely on its taste, and i will miss it when i leave here.
posted by JimBennett at 10:57 PM on December 21, 2015
posted by JimBennett at 10:57 PM on December 21, 2015
How does one faithfully recreate a beer that nobody has tasted in more than forty years?
One counts on the fact that nobody can possibly know if one gets it wrong.
I read the first sentence and thought, why would they try very hard? But Wolfdog beat me to it and betterly worded.
posted by bendy at 11:13 PM on December 21, 2015
One counts on the fact that nobody can possibly know if one gets it wrong.
I read the first sentence and thought, why would they try very hard? But Wolfdog beat me to it and betterly worded.
posted by bendy at 11:13 PM on December 21, 2015
The "hipster" association with Pabst comes from its resurgence among young people in the 00s. Nobody was ever under the impression that it was something fancy it just came to be perceived as cooler/better than the average macro beer, perhaps because it seemed like something of an underdog? At this point it's just a widespread go-to cheap beer though. I'm pretty sure most of those are pretty similar really.
posted by atoxyl at 12:25 AM on December 22, 2015
posted by atoxyl at 12:25 AM on December 22, 2015
The reason why they worked so hard is to justify the job and to be able to market that.
Dogfish Head has been doing that for years.
Think about it this way: traditional beers have precisely 4 ingredients:
Making an IPA is easy. In fact, making a delicious IPA is easy.
Making the same drinkable IPA every single time? That's harder.
Making the same drinkable IPA every single time in mass quantity cheaply? Even harder.
From a process perspective, I wonder about lining the tanks with oak. That would likely make the first several batches taste different compared to later batches as the tannins leach out of the oak. On a small scale, if I wanted that flavor in an IPA, I would put a handful of oak wood chips into the primary or the secondary. Even on a larger scale, this would likely be more consistent.
Meanwhile, I kegged a batch of Sleigh Fuel on Sunday and can't wait to taste it. It called for the addition of orange, vanilla, and cinnamon extracts at bottling/kegging time and the combination of those had an interesting root beer/cream soda aroma. I also kegged a batch of Shakespeare Stout, although I don't think it will have the hop punch that it needs.
Although what I'm brewing these days is a little odd because I bought 5 pounds of fresh Cascade hops from a local farmer (it was cheap!) and as I repacked it into 1.3oz1 suspicious looking ziplock bags that are now in my chest freezer, I couldn't help thinking "I have made a terrible mistake" because I've got enough hops to make roughly 20-24 batches of beer (5 gallons each) whereas I only make maybe 8 per year. Whoops.
Anyone need some hops? Memail me.
1In talking with my local brew shop owner, he suggested that using whole, fresh hops I would need about 30% more than what was called for in recipes, so repacking this way would make it convenient for using in recipes.
posted by plinth at 2:59 AM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Dogfish Head has been doing that for years.
Think about it this way: traditional beers have precisely 4 ingredients:
- grain
- hops
- yeast
- water
Making an IPA is easy. In fact, making a delicious IPA is easy.
Making the same drinkable IPA every single time? That's harder.
Making the same drinkable IPA every single time in mass quantity cheaply? Even harder.
From a process perspective, I wonder about lining the tanks with oak. That would likely make the first several batches taste different compared to later batches as the tannins leach out of the oak. On a small scale, if I wanted that flavor in an IPA, I would put a handful of oak wood chips into the primary or the secondary. Even on a larger scale, this would likely be more consistent.
Meanwhile, I kegged a batch of Sleigh Fuel on Sunday and can't wait to taste it. It called for the addition of orange, vanilla, and cinnamon extracts at bottling/kegging time and the combination of those had an interesting root beer/cream soda aroma. I also kegged a batch of Shakespeare Stout, although I don't think it will have the hop punch that it needs.
Although what I'm brewing these days is a little odd because I bought 5 pounds of fresh Cascade hops from a local farmer (it was cheap!) and as I repacked it into 1.3oz1 suspicious looking ziplock bags that are now in my chest freezer, I couldn't help thinking "I have made a terrible mistake" because I've got enough hops to make roughly 20-24 batches of beer (5 gallons each) whereas I only make maybe 8 per year. Whoops.
Anyone need some hops? Memail me.
1In talking with my local brew shop owner, he suggested that using whole, fresh hops I would need about 30% more than what was called for in recipes, so repacking this way would make it convenient for using in recipes.
posted by plinth at 2:59 AM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
A few years ago I was doing some work (I'm an archaeologist) at a river near a major urban center. I was lucky enough to actually be doing excavation below the water line in what was potentially several hundred years of artefact-bearing river mud. I didn't think river mud would have good stratigraphic integrity, but it was good enough, and I was finding older and older things as we went down (go check out the Law of Superposition if you're not familiar with !).
I think I will still think about this story to the end of my days, and I'm still not sure I made the best choice. In among various other things that, based on off-the-cuff dating, were probably between 1890-1910, I pulled out a bottle of beer. A full bottle of beer, cork still in.
It probably fell into the river 120 years before I pulled it out, but the cork was still in and there was liquid in it. I flipped it over to examine the marks on the bottom (for quick dating purposes, mind you) and the cork slipped out and the contents started pouring out.
Oh. My. God. The smell. It hadn't gone off. Oh no no no, if anything a century of being entombed in river mud had improved it. Mostly, smell was absolutely rich with spices. Hints of nutmeg are what still stick with me -- it poured all over my boots, so I lived with it for a while. I didn't taste it. I'm still not sure I was completely wrong in deciding not to lick some of the drops off the bottle ... and yet I kinda wish I had, though god only knows the sorts of pollutants etc that had seeped through a semi-loose cork in the last century+.
I didn't taste it, but I still kinda wish I had. The smell was amazing. I put my nose the ground and smelled what remained after the contents poured out. I sniffed the living hell out of the bottle. As a beer drinker, I should have tasted it. As an archaeologist, familiar with what a century of industrial pollution can do to things, I respect my opinion to not taste it. But I should have tasted it.
I guess what I'm saying is that in my limited experience, older beers are more diverse than we give them credit for, and as much as I appreciate the efforts made by the Pabst master brewer and friends to re-create the old drink, I don't believe for a goddamned instant that they got anywhere near what made the beer famous in the first place. Wood essence is not the same as wood casks. Similar malts are not the same. A quick brew is not the same as year aging.
But yeah, ok, tt's close enough. Still, I reckon it's essentially the beer equivalent of Downtown Abbey: a contemporary thing given heritage with overly broad allusions to history, but fundamentally altered in order not to be offensive to modern tastes. Goddammit, I want old goddamned beer. I want to drink that old beer I found.
I shoulda drunk some. I'm glad I didn't, but I shoulda drunk some.
posted by barnacles at 3:56 AM on December 22, 2015 [37 favorites]
I think I will still think about this story to the end of my days, and I'm still not sure I made the best choice. In among various other things that, based on off-the-cuff dating, were probably between 1890-1910, I pulled out a bottle of beer. A full bottle of beer, cork still in.
It probably fell into the river 120 years before I pulled it out, but the cork was still in and there was liquid in it. I flipped it over to examine the marks on the bottom (for quick dating purposes, mind you) and the cork slipped out and the contents started pouring out.
Oh. My. God. The smell. It hadn't gone off. Oh no no no, if anything a century of being entombed in river mud had improved it. Mostly, smell was absolutely rich with spices. Hints of nutmeg are what still stick with me -- it poured all over my boots, so I lived with it for a while. I didn't taste it. I'm still not sure I was completely wrong in deciding not to lick some of the drops off the bottle ... and yet I kinda wish I had, though god only knows the sorts of pollutants etc that had seeped through a semi-loose cork in the last century+.
I didn't taste it, but I still kinda wish I had. The smell was amazing. I put my nose the ground and smelled what remained after the contents poured out. I sniffed the living hell out of the bottle. As a beer drinker, I should have tasted it. As an archaeologist, familiar with what a century of industrial pollution can do to things, I respect my opinion to not taste it. But I should have tasted it.
I guess what I'm saying is that in my limited experience, older beers are more diverse than we give them credit for, and as much as I appreciate the efforts made by the Pabst master brewer and friends to re-create the old drink, I don't believe for a goddamned instant that they got anywhere near what made the beer famous in the first place. Wood essence is not the same as wood casks. Similar malts are not the same. A quick brew is not the same as year aging.
But yeah, ok, tt's close enough. Still, I reckon it's essentially the beer equivalent of Downtown Abbey: a contemporary thing given heritage with overly broad allusions to history, but fundamentally altered in order not to be offensive to modern tastes. Goddammit, I want old goddamned beer. I want to drink that old beer I found.
I shoulda drunk some. I'm glad I didn't, but I shoulda drunk some.
posted by barnacles at 3:56 AM on December 22, 2015 [37 favorites]
Didn't Hunter Thompson write of drinking Ballantine in Campaign Trail '72?
Yes, I came by to mention HST's writing about his consumption of it. I was disappointed when I got to close to drinking age that Ballantine wasn't available any more.
posted by Gelatin at 4:14 AM on December 22, 2015
Yes, I came by to mention HST's writing about his consumption of it. I was disappointed when I got to close to drinking age that Ballantine wasn't available any more.
posted by Gelatin at 4:14 AM on December 22, 2015
But if you're a mathematician or a lacanian, you want them to bring back the borromean knot logo with it. Instead they simplified the logo and removed the crossings.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:28 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:28 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't get the business aspect of "Ballantine Resurrection". In fact I was in the local beer shop yesterday--saw the new Ballantine--and passed it by. I'm old enough to remember the name, and I sure don't associate it with an exciting beer experience.
Now that I've read the article, I am interested enough that I will probably give it a try, but I don't understand who Pabst is marketing this to. Senior citizens who remember it fondly? That can't be a large demographic. Whatever name recognition and consumer goodwill Ballantine once had is long gone.
They should go the DFH route and market it as part of "Beers of History" series or something. But it's going to be an uphill battle considering all the hop deliciousness that is available today.
@barnacles - Thank you for that. Completely fascinating.
posted by superelastic at 5:04 AM on December 22, 2015
Now that I've read the article, I am interested enough that I will probably give it a try, but I don't understand who Pabst is marketing this to. Senior citizens who remember it fondly? That can't be a large demographic. Whatever name recognition and consumer goodwill Ballantine once had is long gone.
They should go the DFH route and market it as part of "Beers of History" series or something. But it's going to be an uphill battle considering all the hop deliciousness that is available today.
@barnacles - Thank you for that. Completely fascinating.
posted by superelastic at 5:04 AM on December 22, 2015
I shoulda drunk some. I'm glad I didn't, but I shoulda drunk some.
I know I will never eat frozen mammoth in Siberia, but I'm glad that people have tried.
I am all for improving the mass-market beer options and having basic go-to beers that are better than Coors Light or PBR, so I've been following the news of takeovers with some interest. This is a new twist, though, a full resurrection from the dead rather than a takeover, but by the same token I can't help but see it as a positive.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:18 AM on December 22, 2015
I know I will never eat frozen mammoth in Siberia, but I'm glad that people have tried.
I am all for improving the mass-market beer options and having basic go-to beers that are better than Coors Light or PBR, so I've been following the news of takeovers with some interest. This is a new twist, though, a full resurrection from the dead rather than a takeover, but by the same token I can't help but see it as a positive.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:18 AM on December 22, 2015
Wood essence is not the same as wood casks. Similar malts are not the same. A quick brew is not the same as year aging.
Honestly, they've almost certainly made a better beer (where better means more suited for today's tastes). Aging a 7.2% IPA for a year is just going to give you a softer, less-bitter, less-fresh tasting beer. Which, okay, maybe that's what the drinker of the 1960s wanted, but that's not going to fly today. And assuming the old tanks really were lined with pitch, you wouldn't have gotten a ton of wood, anyway. (And ... I get that this is just me, but I can't stand real barrel-aged beers; always, always, always too much wood. Like drinking vanilla extract.)
Anyhow, this is a neat story, and if it means that there are more mass-produced beers that taste of something, that's probably a good thing (assuming it grows the pie, and all). I noticed the Ballantine IPA on the shelf a few weeks ago and almost bought some, but didn't. Maybe I'll pick some up next time (once Celebration is off the shelves; from December through February or so it's pretty much all I drink).
posted by uncleozzy at 5:23 AM on December 22, 2015
Honestly, they've almost certainly made a better beer (where better means more suited for today's tastes). Aging a 7.2% IPA for a year is just going to give you a softer, less-bitter, less-fresh tasting beer. Which, okay, maybe that's what the drinker of the 1960s wanted, but that's not going to fly today. And assuming the old tanks really were lined with pitch, you wouldn't have gotten a ton of wood, anyway. (And ... I get that this is just me, but I can't stand real barrel-aged beers; always, always, always too much wood. Like drinking vanilla extract.)
Anyhow, this is a neat story, and if it means that there are more mass-produced beers that taste of something, that's probably a good thing (assuming it grows the pie, and all). I noticed the Ballantine IPA on the shelf a few weeks ago and almost bought some, but didn't. Maybe I'll pick some up next time (once Celebration is off the shelves; from December through February or so it's pretty much all I drink).
posted by uncleozzy at 5:23 AM on December 22, 2015
Now if only someone would bring back Dark Schlitz. It was my on-tap favorite when I was first old enough to drink legally in 1976 and disappeared shortly thereafter. I'm pretty sure it was gone by 1979.
posted by lordrunningclam at 5:59 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lordrunningclam at 5:59 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Now that I've read the article, I am interested enough that I will probably give it a try, but I don't understand who Pabst is marketing this to.
Getting some attention for an IPA in today's market is hard enough that gimmicks like this are probably worth it. Plus it doesn't have the appearance that they are just jumping on the IPA bandwagon because they need to do it to compete, like Sam Adams with their Rebel IPA.
posted by smackfu at 6:41 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Getting some attention for an IPA in today's market is hard enough that gimmicks like this are probably worth it. Plus it doesn't have the appearance that they are just jumping on the IPA bandwagon because they need to do it to compete, like Sam Adams with their Rebel IPA.
posted by smackfu at 6:41 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've come to the realization that hops are my least favorite aspect of beer. I recognize their value in balancing and accenting the flavor, but it seems like 70% of craft beers on tap today want to blast your tongue with hops like Starkiller Base firing on Hosnian Prime.
What I'm saying is more brewers need to rediscover gruit.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:55 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
What I'm saying is more brewers need to rediscover gruit.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:55 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't understand who Pabst is marketing this to.
It reads to me like this is less focused on marketing to a specific demographic and more about "Pabst: Actually Making An Effort". I like this move. And like PBR, Ballantine's has that faint whiff of nostalgic loucheness about it. Good fit. I'll try this beer when I see it on the shelf. OK, so maybe the target market is middle-aged guys tired of hop-bomb IPAs......
posted by BitterOldPunk at 6:56 AM on December 22, 2015
It reads to me like this is less focused on marketing to a specific demographic and more about "Pabst: Actually Making An Effort". I like this move. And like PBR, Ballantine's has that faint whiff of nostalgic loucheness about it. Good fit. I'll try this beer when I see it on the shelf. OK, so maybe the target market is middle-aged guys tired of hop-bomb IPAs......
posted by BitterOldPunk at 6:56 AM on December 22, 2015
I had some of this new Ballantine IPA at the neat but oddly named "Best Place at the Historic Pabst Brewery" in Milwaukee a few months ago. It was OK but nothing special. Very bitter and only modest amounts of hop flavor and aroma, with little malt to balance the bitterness. I've brewed many IPAs and have also judged plenty of them in competitions. Suffice to say that I'd be unhappy if I'd made the beer and it turned out this way. I was rather disappointed, as I'd heard about the revival project and was very excited to see it available.
As any good beer geek knows, one of the most important things about IPA is freshness. Bitterness will persist for months or even years, but the delicious hop flavors and aromas dissipate very quickly, and require plentiful (expensive) hop additions late in the boil and as "dry hops" after fermentation. I assume my sample of Ballantine was fresh based on where I bought it, but who knows. It did seem to have a haze from being dry hopped.
Seriously, people who don't like IPAs, keep your eyes peeled for something super fresh. I can't tell you how many people have been shocked by their enjoyment of a good homebrewed IPA.
posted by exogenous at 6:57 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
As any good beer geek knows, one of the most important things about IPA is freshness. Bitterness will persist for months or even years, but the delicious hop flavors and aromas dissipate very quickly, and require plentiful (expensive) hop additions late in the boil and as "dry hops" after fermentation. I assume my sample of Ballantine was fresh based on where I bought it, but who knows. It did seem to have a haze from being dry hopped.
Seriously, people who don't like IPAs, keep your eyes peeled for something super fresh. I can't tell you how many people have been shocked by their enjoyment of a good homebrewed IPA.
posted by exogenous at 6:57 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I received a tray just like this from a friend when he moved. I fell in love with Ballantine for the logo alone, really for the borromean rings, which seems not to be there in the modern version, which makes me sad. Still interested.
posted by Hactar at 7:00 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Hactar at 7:00 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
What, this deep in the thread and no one has pointed to one of Ballantine's most famous literary moments? It was the similarity of the sculptor's hallmark to the Ballantine logo that allowed Jamie and Claudia to identify a Michelangelo in From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler.
lacks the taint of hipster affectation
Maybe not yet near you, but it was initially manufactured with the taint of hipster affectation, and has enjoyed hipster affectation here in New England since the moment it came out again almost a decade ago. It's no purer; the very reason the new owners revived the brand and its retro marketing instead of starting a new label was exactly the existence of a nostalgia/retro-chic marketplace, and they have carefully targeted their marketing to appeal to distinct sectors within that.
The "hipster" association with Pabst comes from its resurgence among young people in the 00s...it just came to be perceived as cooler/better than the average macro beer, perhaps because it seemed like something of an underdog?
Nothing just happens. When PBR noticed that younger people were gravitating toward the beer because (1) it was cheap and (2) it wasn't Bud, they capitalized on that by fanning the flames, sponsoring cycling events and obscure music festivals instead of mainstream sports, etc. Make no mistake, as soon as they were aware of a new emerging market, people in boardrooms built a strategy to promote as the anti-establishment beer. To quote from the link, "PBR was like a “marketing company’s idea that was reverse engineered into a liquid.”
None of it just happens.
posted by Miko at 7:45 AM on December 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
lacks the taint of hipster affectation
Maybe not yet near you, but it was initially manufactured with the taint of hipster affectation, and has enjoyed hipster affectation here in New England since the moment it came out again almost a decade ago. It's no purer; the very reason the new owners revived the brand and its retro marketing instead of starting a new label was exactly the existence of a nostalgia/retro-chic marketplace, and they have carefully targeted their marketing to appeal to distinct sectors within that.
The "hipster" association with Pabst comes from its resurgence among young people in the 00s...it just came to be perceived as cooler/better than the average macro beer, perhaps because it seemed like something of an underdog?
Nothing just happens. When PBR noticed that younger people were gravitating toward the beer because (1) it was cheap and (2) it wasn't Bud, they capitalized on that by fanning the flames, sponsoring cycling events and obscure music festivals instead of mainstream sports, etc. Make no mistake, as soon as they were aware of a new emerging market, people in boardrooms built a strategy to promote as the anti-establishment beer. To quote from the link, "PBR was like a “marketing company’s idea that was reverse engineered into a liquid.”
None of it just happens.
posted by Miko at 7:45 AM on December 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
I recognize their value in balancing and accenting the flavor
They're also an important preservative, especially prior to modern sanitization and refrigeration practices. Without hops, unsealed, unrefrigerated ale goes off in about a week. With refrigeration it'll keep in a sealed container for at least a month or so, but commercial products need a longer, more predictable shelf-life than that. As far as I know, none of the common non-hop adjuncts (e.g. heather) have the same preservative effect.
posted by jedicus at 8:16 AM on December 22, 2015
They're also an important preservative, especially prior to modern sanitization and refrigeration practices. Without hops, unsealed, unrefrigerated ale goes off in about a week. With refrigeration it'll keep in a sealed container for at least a month or so, but commercial products need a longer, more predictable shelf-life than that. As far as I know, none of the common non-hop adjuncts (e.g. heather) have the same preservative effect.
posted by jedicus at 8:16 AM on December 22, 2015
What I'm saying is more brewers need to rediscover gruit
I'd be happy if they just rediscovered a good malty balance.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:35 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd be happy if they just rediscovered a good malty balance.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:35 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
superelastic: "Whatever name recognition and consumer goodwill Ballantine once had is long gone."
I'm too young (and maybe too Canadian) to have seen it when it was first around so now when I hear "Ballantine", I think "hey, that's what Frasier's dad drank". And I'd be at least curious to check it out.
posted by mhum at 12:14 PM on December 22, 2015
I'm too young (and maybe too Canadian) to have seen it when it was first around so now when I hear "Ballantine", I think "hey, that's what Frasier's dad drank". And I'd be at least curious to check it out.
posted by mhum at 12:14 PM on December 22, 2015
Pretty sure that works for both groups.
Except that isn’t actually the case if you examine it any more deeply. if you trust what people say, rather than judging them by some undefinable criteria, hipsters drink what they can afford, and beer snobs drink what they believe is the “best”. If you don’t trust what people say… I guess you can demand income statements from people?
This rankles me in particular because whenever beer snobs mock hipsters or whatever, the unspoken end of that road is denying the existential validity of an entire category of beer (American Lager), a style that came to America from Germany via immigrants.
Like if you clearly just don’t like the whole style (which, while your prerogative, makes me suspicious of any expert—I wouldn’t trust a food critic who didn’t like an entire country’s cuisine), don’t make fun of people who can’t afford what you think they should be drinking.
I never see beer people advocating for a better cheap American Lagers. I see them telling people you’re a phony hipster if you don’t have like a billion IBU’s in your glass.
That’s the difference between being an enthusiast and a snob. An enthusiast has passion for something and wants to share it. A snob thinks you’re doing it wrong. I know which I’d rather have a beer with.
posted by danny the boy at 12:21 PM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Except that isn’t actually the case if you examine it any more deeply. if you trust what people say, rather than judging them by some undefinable criteria, hipsters drink what they can afford, and beer snobs drink what they believe is the “best”. If you don’t trust what people say… I guess you can demand income statements from people?
This rankles me in particular because whenever beer snobs mock hipsters or whatever, the unspoken end of that road is denying the existential validity of an entire category of beer (American Lager), a style that came to America from Germany via immigrants.
Like if you clearly just don’t like the whole style (which, while your prerogative, makes me suspicious of any expert—I wouldn’t trust a food critic who didn’t like an entire country’s cuisine), don’t make fun of people who can’t afford what you think they should be drinking.
I never see beer people advocating for a better cheap American Lagers. I see them telling people you’re a phony hipster if you don’t have like a billion IBU’s in your glass.
That’s the difference between being an enthusiast and a snob. An enthusiast has passion for something and wants to share it. A snob thinks you’re doing it wrong. I know which I’d rather have a beer with.
posted by danny the boy at 12:21 PM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I prefer to describe myself as a beer geek to separate myself from beer snobs. Whether you buy beer on the low end or the high end or in the middle, there is a lot of branding and brand signalling involved. PBR IS a good cheap lager, but there are more good cheep lagers out there than just PBR*. The brand has history and power that makes it more satisfying than other choices. The history of the branding is what beers like Gansett and National Bohemian are taking advantage of. But you still need the quality. Nobody is writing articles about recreating this Ballantine.
On the high end, the fancy ingredients and fancy labels and fancy brands signal other things. Connoisseur culture is in every hobby related to food and drink. These are all great products, but for a lot of people they are just too expensive. And that's fine, because there is good beer available at all price points. But some people do buy the more expensive stuff as a status symbol and think everything else is inferior, that's snobbery.
The frustration with American Lager is that it's really difficult to find cheap beers of a different style at the lower price points. The added specialized malts and hops (and the insistence on a lack of adjuncts) adds to the cost even when a big brewer is making the beer. I think if I could buy a good cheap pale ale or Hefeweizen for the same price as I can a Yuengling, I would be in beer heaven. I don't need to be trying new stuff all the time, but I don't always want Yuengling.
*PBR isn't even the best cheap beer anymore. They raised the price eventually as the brand got popular enough that it didn't have to rely on basement pricing. Try Genny Cream instead.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:53 PM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
On the high end, the fancy ingredients and fancy labels and fancy brands signal other things. Connoisseur culture is in every hobby related to food and drink. These are all great products, but for a lot of people they are just too expensive. And that's fine, because there is good beer available at all price points. But some people do buy the more expensive stuff as a status symbol and think everything else is inferior, that's snobbery.
The frustration with American Lager is that it's really difficult to find cheap beers of a different style at the lower price points. The added specialized malts and hops (and the insistence on a lack of adjuncts) adds to the cost even when a big brewer is making the beer. I think if I could buy a good cheap pale ale or Hefeweizen for the same price as I can a Yuengling, I would be in beer heaven. I don't need to be trying new stuff all the time, but I don't always want Yuengling.
*PBR isn't even the best cheap beer anymore. They raised the price eventually as the brand got popular enough that it didn't have to rely on basement pricing. Try Genny Cream instead.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:53 PM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Except that isn’t actually the case if you examine it any more deeply. if you trust what people say, rather than judging them by some undefinable criteria, hipsters drink what they can afford, and beer snobs drink what they believe is the “best”. If you don’t trust what people say… I guess you can demand income statements from people?
I lived in Portland when PBR became the hipster beer, and there was definitely both intentional marketing (as Miko notes above) and people making conscious decisions about how a particular beer's branding fit their own image (as we all do, of course). There are other cheap beers; choosing PBR is not a neutral decision based only on taste and price, though people like to say so for obvious reasons).
posted by Dip Flash at 2:35 PM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I lived in Portland when PBR became the hipster beer, and there was definitely both intentional marketing (as Miko notes above) and people making conscious decisions about how a particular beer's branding fit their own image (as we all do, of course). There are other cheap beers; choosing PBR is not a neutral decision based only on taste and price, though people like to say so for obvious reasons).
posted by Dip Flash at 2:35 PM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Frasier thing is really interesting to think about. I have to imagine what Martin drank was the version that was, if nothing else, a legitimate serious IPA. Then it devolved and disappeared right in front of him as the years went on and eventually nobody even knew what an IPA was. He couldn't even ask for a similar beer, because there were none. The brand was still there, but it was nothing like what he remembered.
So some day Frasier and Niles try a 40oz Ballantine and it's just cheap malt liquor. For the rest of their lives, they look down on their father as a man with cheap, uncultured tastes. They turn to sherry and port in a desperate act of overcompensation.
But they never know that their father was actually the first Beer Snob. He just wanted a fucking IPA. If they were born today and they knew their dad was a pioneering IPA fan, the Crane & Sons Craft Brewery would be the biggest brewery in Washington. They never would have even become doctors, they would be master brewers.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:19 PM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
So some day Frasier and Niles try a 40oz Ballantine and it's just cheap malt liquor. For the rest of their lives, they look down on their father as a man with cheap, uncultured tastes. They turn to sherry and port in a desperate act of overcompensation.
But they never know that their father was actually the first Beer Snob. He just wanted a fucking IPA. If they were born today and they knew their dad was a pioneering IPA fan, the Crane & Sons Craft Brewery would be the biggest brewery in Washington. They never would have even become doctors, they would be master brewers.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:19 PM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
superelastic: "Now that I've read the article, I am interested enough that I will probably give it a try, but I don't understand who Pabst is marketing this to. Senior citizens who remember it fondly? That can't be a large demographic. Whatever name recognition and consumer goodwill Ballantine once had is long gone."
It's marketing it to me: a 20-something who is too young to remember Ballantine but drinks PBR and is intrigued by the story of "macrobrewery decides to revitalize a craft beer in a super nerdy way". I know it's terrifying that people born in 1994 can now drink (and if we're going to be honest here, college freshmen born in 1997(!) can't legally drink but are doing so anyway), but no one born in 1994 remembers what Ballantine tasted like. Well, it would be marketed to me, but I don't like IPAs. If they find an old stout to bring back, then we'd have something to talk about.
posted by capricorn at 7:03 AM on December 23, 2015
It's marketing it to me: a 20-something who is too young to remember Ballantine but drinks PBR and is intrigued by the story of "macrobrewery decides to revitalize a craft beer in a super nerdy way". I know it's terrifying that people born in 1994 can now drink (and if we're going to be honest here, college freshmen born in 1997(!) can't legally drink but are doing so anyway), but no one born in 1994 remembers what Ballantine tasted like. Well, it would be marketed to me, but I don't like IPAs. If they find an old stout to bring back, then we'd have something to talk about.
posted by capricorn at 7:03 AM on December 23, 2015
There was a recent FPP about photos of NYC in the 1950s and you can guess what I spotted in the 11th image down (direct link if you're not into scrolling).
posted by komara at 5:19 PM on December 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by komara at 5:19 PM on December 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
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One counts on the fact that nobody can possibly know if one gets it wrong.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:22 PM on December 21, 2015 [29 favorites]