The 10 Best Articles Wikipedia Deleted This Week
December 23, 2015 1:04 PM Subscribe
When the faceless, unaccountable (and nearly exclusively male) editors of Wikipedia decide that an article is not fit for public consumption, it’s gone—disappeared into the site’s recesses, and only accessible to the most elite editors. These deleted articles have been a dark spot in Wikipedia’s otherwise laudable transparency. That is, until now. [SLGawker]
Magic Mansion
Twelve commandments of a creative individual
E-Safety
Female Nude Wrestling
Little Italy, Rochester
Wellywoman
HJIS Grade 10 of 2015-2016
List of Jews from New York City
Easy Listening Satanic
Tomi Kenn
Magic Mansion
Twelve commandments of a creative individual
E-Safety
Female Nude Wrestling
Little Italy, Rochester
Wellywoman
HJIS Grade 10 of 2015-2016
List of Jews from New York City
Easy Listening Satanic
Tomi Kenn
*Why [the Magic Mansion entry] shouldn’t have been [deleted]:
Even if it is fake, someone put a lot of work into building that wildly elaborate lie.*
Bull honkey. I realize Gawker is trying to make with the funs, but Wikipedia shouldn't be the place for elaborate, potentially fraudulent, folk art.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:14 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
Even if it is fake, someone put a lot of work into building that wildly elaborate lie.*
Bull honkey. I realize Gawker is trying to make with the funs, but Wikipedia shouldn't be the place for elaborate, potentially fraudulent, folk art.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:14 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
These deletions are why I don't contribute to Wikipedia anymore. You can't be the world's encyclopedia if you're excluding the Wellywoman.
posted by blue_beetle at 1:15 PM on December 23, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 1:15 PM on December 23, 2015 [17 favorites]
The whole "Warren Chaney" hoax thing is tantalizing. Anyone have further information?
posted by phooky at 1:19 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by phooky at 1:19 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Magic Mansion photos do look photoshopped, particularly the one on the right (and I could almost swear that's the face of a young Joe Flaherty). Anyway, if it's fake, my hat is off to the creator(s) and I think they'd be better off creating their own website and whatever around the "show" because that's some fun, creative stuff going on.
But Wikipedia shouldn't be a place for creative fiction, no matter how fun.
posted by nubs at 1:19 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
But Wikipedia shouldn't be a place for creative fiction, no matter how fun.
posted by nubs at 1:19 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
You can become an editor or start your own Wikipedia.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:20 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by Ironmouth at 1:20 PM on December 23, 2015
I really want to know if Magic Mansion was real.
posted by kiltedtaco at 1:21 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by kiltedtaco at 1:21 PM on December 23, 2015
Magic Mansion is clearly a relic from an alternate dimension that got tied up in some spooky internet entanglement. Someone on Earth B was just trying to update thier world's Wikipedia and the packet got sent to the wrong place.
posted by The Whelk at 1:22 PM on December 23, 2015 [34 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 1:22 PM on December 23, 2015 [34 favorites]
My favorite entry in this genre remains the plot synopsis for "The Boys Are Back In Town."
The lyrics follow a group of wild-eyed boys who have just returned to town[1] after having been away from town. The song begins with the boys having returned that very day to the place that they once were but hadn't been for some time. Upon returning to titular town, the eponymous boys ask the whereabouts of an unknown figure (possibly the audience) which the narrator designates as 'you'. Soon, the boys discover this 'you' has been busy downtown driving the old men crazy. The old men are an undefined group but are separated distinctly from the boys on account of being old, not boys, and presumably having stayed in town.posted by Iridic at 1:24 PM on December 23, 2015 [120 favorites]
I am kind of sad this wasn't a more serious examination of the biases that go into some of the more genuinely questionable or borderline deletions, but it was pretty damn fun nevertheless.
posted by Dysk at 1:28 PM on December 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 1:28 PM on December 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
Magic Mansion isn't a hoax, duh. They used to air reruns of it right after Candle Cove on KTVU in the 80s.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:28 PM on December 23, 2015 [34 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:28 PM on December 23, 2015 [34 favorites]
This image seems pretty obviously photoshopped. The characters look pasted onto that backdrop.
posted by themadthinker at 1:29 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by themadthinker at 1:29 PM on December 23, 2015
*Why [the Magic Mansion entry] shouldn’t have been [deleted]:
Even if it is fake, someone put a lot of work into building that wildly elaborate lie.*
Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 1:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [13 favorites]
Bull honkey. I realize Gawker is trying to make with the funs, but Wikipedia shouldn't be the place for elaborate, potentially fraudulent, folk art.
I agree. Wikipedia should be the place where you edit a band's Wikipedia page to list yourself as a family member so you can get backstage and party with celebrities.
posted by fragmede at 1:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
I agree. Wikipedia should be the place where you edit a band's Wikipedia page to list yourself as a family member so you can get backstage and party with celebrities.
posted by fragmede at 1:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
I've washed my hands of Wikipedia ever since they deleted the real backstory of Count Chocula.
posted by maxsparber at 1:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [43 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 1:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [43 favorites]
On a cool, clear night (typical to Southern California) Warren G travels through his neighborhood, searching for women with whom he might initiate sexual intercourse. He has chosen to engage in this pursuit alone.
Nate Dogg, having just arrived in Long Beach, seeks Warren. Ironically, Nate passes a car full of women who are excited to see him. He insists to the women that there is no cause for excitement.
Warren makes a left at 21st Street and Lewis Ave, where he sees a group of young men enjoying a game of dice together. He parks his car and greets them. He is excited to find people to play with, but to his chagrin, he discovers they intend to relieve him of his material possessions. Once the hopeful thieves reveal their firearms, Warren realizes he is in a considerable predicament.
Meanwhile, Nate passes the women, as they are low on his list of priorities. His primary concern is locating Warren. After curtly casting away the strumpets (whose interest in Nate was such that they crashed their automobile), he serendipitously stumbles upon his friend, Warren G, being held up by the young miscreants.
Warren, unaware that Nate is surreptitiously observing the scene unfold, is in disbelief that he's being robbed. The perpetrators have taken jewelry and a name brand designer watch from Warren, who is so incredulous that he asks what else the robbers intend to steal. This is most likely a rhetorical question.
Observing these unfortunate proceedings, Nate realizes that he may have to use his firearm to deliver his friend from harm.
The tension crescendos as the robbers point their guns to Warren's head. Warren senses the gravity of his situation. He cannot believe the events unfolding could happen in his own neighborhood. As he imagines himself escaping in a surreal fashion, he catches a glimpse of his friend, Nate.
Nate has seventeen cartridges (sixteen residing in the pistol's magazine, with a solitary round placed in the chamber and ready to be fired) to expend on the group of robbers. Afterward, he generously shares the credit for neutralizing the situation with Warren, though it is clear that Nate did all of the difficult work. Putting congratulations aside, Nate quickly reminds himself that he has committed multiple homicides to save Warren before letting his friend know that there are females nearby if he wishes to fornicate with them.
Warren recalls that it was the promise of copulation that coaxed him away from his previous activities, and is thankful that Nate knows a way to satisfy these urges. Nate quickly finds the women who earlier crashed their car on Nate's account. He remarks to one that he is fond of her physical appeal. The woman, impressed by Nate's singing ability, asks that he and Warren allow her and her friends to share transportation. Soon, both friends are driving with automobiles full of women to the East Side Motel, presumably to consummate their flirtation in an orgy.
The third verse is more expository, with Warren and Nate explaining their G Funk musical style. Warren displays his bravado by daring anyone to approach the style. There follows a brief discussion of the genre's musicological features, with special care taken to point out that in said milieu the rhythm is not in fact the rhythm, as one might assume, but actually the bass. Similarly the bass serves a purpose closer to that which the treble would in more traditional musical forms. Nate displays his bravado by claiming that individuals with equivalent knowledge could not even attempt to approach his level of lyrical mastery. Nate goes on to note that if any third party smokes as he does, they would find themselves in a state of intoxication almost daily (from Nate's other works, it can be inferred that the substance referenced is marijuana). Nate concludes his delineation of the night by issuing a threat to "busters," suggesting that he and Warren will further "regulate" any potential incidents in the future.
posted by four panels at 1:31 PM on December 23, 2015 [68 favorites]
Nate Dogg, having just arrived in Long Beach, seeks Warren. Ironically, Nate passes a car full of women who are excited to see him. He insists to the women that there is no cause for excitement.
Warren makes a left at 21st Street and Lewis Ave, where he sees a group of young men enjoying a game of dice together. He parks his car and greets them. He is excited to find people to play with, but to his chagrin, he discovers they intend to relieve him of his material possessions. Once the hopeful thieves reveal their firearms, Warren realizes he is in a considerable predicament.
Meanwhile, Nate passes the women, as they are low on his list of priorities. His primary concern is locating Warren. After curtly casting away the strumpets (whose interest in Nate was such that they crashed their automobile), he serendipitously stumbles upon his friend, Warren G, being held up by the young miscreants.
Warren, unaware that Nate is surreptitiously observing the scene unfold, is in disbelief that he's being robbed. The perpetrators have taken jewelry and a name brand designer watch from Warren, who is so incredulous that he asks what else the robbers intend to steal. This is most likely a rhetorical question.
Observing these unfortunate proceedings, Nate realizes that he may have to use his firearm to deliver his friend from harm.
The tension crescendos as the robbers point their guns to Warren's head. Warren senses the gravity of his situation. He cannot believe the events unfolding could happen in his own neighborhood. As he imagines himself escaping in a surreal fashion, he catches a glimpse of his friend, Nate.
Nate has seventeen cartridges (sixteen residing in the pistol's magazine, with a solitary round placed in the chamber and ready to be fired) to expend on the group of robbers. Afterward, he generously shares the credit for neutralizing the situation with Warren, though it is clear that Nate did all of the difficult work. Putting congratulations aside, Nate quickly reminds himself that he has committed multiple homicides to save Warren before letting his friend know that there are females nearby if he wishes to fornicate with them.
Warren recalls that it was the promise of copulation that coaxed him away from his previous activities, and is thankful that Nate knows a way to satisfy these urges. Nate quickly finds the women who earlier crashed their car on Nate's account. He remarks to one that he is fond of her physical appeal. The woman, impressed by Nate's singing ability, asks that he and Warren allow her and her friends to share transportation. Soon, both friends are driving with automobiles full of women to the East Side Motel, presumably to consummate their flirtation in an orgy.
The third verse is more expository, with Warren and Nate explaining their G Funk musical style. Warren displays his bravado by daring anyone to approach the style. There follows a brief discussion of the genre's musicological features, with special care taken to point out that in said milieu the rhythm is not in fact the rhythm, as one might assume, but actually the bass. Similarly the bass serves a purpose closer to that which the treble would in more traditional musical forms. Nate displays his bravado by claiming that individuals with equivalent knowledge could not even attempt to approach his level of lyrical mastery. Nate goes on to note that if any third party smokes as he does, they would find themselves in a state of intoxication almost daily (from Nate's other works, it can be inferred that the substance referenced is marijuana). Nate concludes his delineation of the night by issuing a threat to "busters," suggesting that he and Warren will further "regulate" any potential incidents in the future.
posted by four panels at 1:31 PM on December 23, 2015 [68 favorites]
Magic Mansion isn't a hoax, duh. They used to air reruns of it right after Candle Cove on KTVU in the 80s.
I remember that. Used to watch that programming block with my good friend Joe Slendermann.
posted by drezdn at 1:32 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
I remember that. Used to watch that programming block with my good friend Joe Slendermann.
posted by drezdn at 1:32 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
I am kind of sad this wasn't a more serious examination of the biases that go into some of the more genuinely questionable or borderline deletions, but it was pretty damn fun nevertheless.
Yeah - I also feel very mixed about an article that invokes the specter of the over-representation of men in Wikipedia’s editorship and then mentions a bunch of random-ass articles that, while interesting, appear to have nothing to do with gender. Again, it's a joke, but that's a pretty dumb level of joke.
Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius
Wikipedia is not your Codex Seraphinianus
posted by Going To Maine at 1:34 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yeah - I also feel very mixed about an article that invokes the specter of the over-representation of men in Wikipedia’s editorship and then mentions a bunch of random-ass articles that, while interesting, appear to have nothing to do with gender. Again, it's a joke, but that's a pretty dumb level of joke.
Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius
Wikipedia is not your Codex Seraphinianus
posted by Going To Maine at 1:34 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
You can become an editor or start your own Wikipedia.
This is an extremely facile suggestion.
posted by kenko at 1:42 PM on December 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
This is an extremely facile suggestion.
posted by kenko at 1:42 PM on December 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that there is no such thing as “Easy Listening Satanic.”
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:44 PM on December 23, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:44 PM on December 23, 2015 [30 favorites]
Yeah - I also feel very mixed about an article that invokes the specter of the over-representation of men in Wikipedia’s editorship and then mentions a bunch of random-ass articles that, while interesting, appear to have nothing to do with gender. Again, it's a joke, but that's a pretty dumb level of joke.
That's kinda Gawker's MO: any time an article touches on something they've discussed before, no matter how tangentially, they'll throw a link to the earlier post in at the beginning with a semi-provocative title. It's less a joke and more an attempt to turn one sweet, sweet ad impression in to two.
posted by Itaxpica at 1:45 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's kinda Gawker's MO: any time an article touches on something they've discussed before, no matter how tangentially, they'll throw a link to the earlier post in at the beginning with a semi-provocative title. It's less a joke and more an attempt to turn one sweet, sweet ad impression in to two.
posted by Itaxpica at 1:45 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh god it's a memetic hazard
Call in the Glass Teat, they'll take care of it. It's Christmas and AI gotta The Giver Of Presents duty.
posted by The Whelk at 1:50 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Call in the Glass Teat, they'll take care of it. It's Christmas and AI gotta The Giver Of Presents duty.
posted by The Whelk at 1:50 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, they are actually doing a pretty good job?
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:51 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:51 PM on December 23, 2015
I hope against hope that the Magic Mansion hoaxers have nothing to do with Gawker and that the timing of this article is just an amazing coincidence. I'm sure I'm wrong but like the existance of Magic Mansion itself, I want to believe.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:55 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:55 PM on December 23, 2015
You can become an editor or start your own Wikipedia.
This is an extremely facile suggestion
No, it is not. The only possible way for Wikipedia to have more women editors is for more women to become editors.
And the only way to have a wiki with differing editorial policies is to make your own.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:56 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is an extremely facile suggestion
No, it is not. The only possible way for Wikipedia to have more women editors is for more women to become editors.
And the only way to have a wiki with differing editorial policies is to make your own.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:56 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is an extremely facile suggestion.
Way back in 1994, you could create your own directory of the web. There were so many of them. It was pretty awesome.
On preview: No, it is not. The only possible way for Wikipedia to have more women editors is for more women to become editors.
This kind of gets back to one of the many things we women keep saying – we're already doing this thing, and we're being silenced.
Did I mention I'm a woman who made her own web directory in 1994? Have you heard of it? No. Is it archived? No. Was my university account deleted before I finished my degree and was I laughed at by the male sysadmin in charge of archives, when I asked for the archive? Yes. Multiply by thousands, millions, etc. Obligatory addendum of the word "systemic" being used for a reason.
posted by fraula at 2:02 PM on December 23, 2015 [84 favorites]
Way back in 1994, you could create your own directory of the web. There were so many of them. It was pretty awesome.
On preview: No, it is not. The only possible way for Wikipedia to have more women editors is for more women to become editors.
This kind of gets back to one of the many things we women keep saying – we're already doing this thing, and we're being silenced.
Did I mention I'm a woman who made her own web directory in 1994? Have you heard of it? No. Is it archived? No. Was my university account deleted before I finished my degree and was I laughed at by the male sysadmin in charge of archives, when I asked for the archive? Yes. Multiply by thousands, millions, etc. Obligatory addendum of the word "systemic" being used for a reason.
posted by fraula at 2:02 PM on December 23, 2015 [84 favorites]
(and if you check my mefi profile, you will also see that yes, I am a wikipedia editor since its inception and was even in contact with one of the founders, a woman.)
posted by fraula at 2:03 PM on December 23, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by fraula at 2:03 PM on December 23, 2015 [11 favorites]
> Wikipedia is not your Codex Seraphinianus
posted by Going To Maine at 1:34 PM on December 23 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Says you. I'd talk about what I've been up to lately, but the last time I talked in any detail on metafilter about what I was up to on wikipedia, some joykilling wikipedian saw it and all the subtle stuff I had done to pages about Borges got fixed.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:04 PM on December 23, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:34 PM on December 23 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Says you. I'd talk about what I've been up to lately, but the last time I talked in any detail on metafilter about what I was up to on wikipedia, some joykilling wikipedian saw it and all the subtle stuff I had done to pages about Borges got fixed.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:04 PM on December 23, 2015 [12 favorites]
No, it is not. The only possible way for Wikipedia to have more women editors is for more women to become editors.
And the only way to have a wiki with differing editorial policies is to make your own.
You're right. Certainly, past history has shown us that, simply by adding women to an oppressive male-centric culture, that culture can be easily changed. Alert the academy! We've solved the leaky pipeline!
posted by Existential Dread at 2:06 PM on December 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
And the only way to have a wiki with differing editorial policies is to make your own.
You're right. Certainly, past history has shown us that, simply by adding women to an oppressive male-centric culture, that culture can be easily changed. Alert the academy! We've solved the leaky pipeline!
posted by Existential Dread at 2:06 PM on December 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
Says you. I'd talk about what I've been up to lately, but the last time I talked in any detail on metafilter about what I was up to on wikipedia, some joykilling wikipedian saw it and all the subtle stuff I had done to pages about Borges got fixed.
As someone who considers deliberately inserting false information into Wikipedia to be akin to peeing in the public water supply, I suggest you find a better way to spend your time…
posted by Going To Maine at 2:14 PM on December 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
As someone who considers deliberately inserting false information into Wikipedia to be akin to peeing in the public water supply, I suggest you find a better way to spend your time…
posted by Going To Maine at 2:14 PM on December 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
And the only way to have a wiki with differing editorial policies is to make your own.
Even by your own logic, this is not true. Wikipedia's editorial policies can be changed by its leaders and to a lesser extent, editors.
posted by Dysk at 2:14 PM on December 23, 2015
Even by your own logic, this is not true. Wikipedia's editorial policies can be changed by its leaders and to a lesser extent, editors.
posted by Dysk at 2:14 PM on December 23, 2015
(Also in an extremely I used to work at a movie and TV photo records place, those magic mansion pics are way too nice looking for what they say they are)
posted by The Whelk at 2:16 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:16 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
We've solved the leaky pipeline!
Actually maybe the leaky pipeline isn’t the problem but this is a derail so go about your day.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:19 PM on December 23, 2015
Actually maybe the leaky pipeline isn’t the problem but this is a derail so go about your day.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:19 PM on December 23, 2015
MetaFilter: Inherently non-notable. The work of a child.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:21 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:21 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Magic Mansion is clearly a relic from an alternate dimension that got tied up in some spooky internet entanglement. Someone on Earth B was just trying to update thier world's Wikipedia and the packet got sent to the wrong place.
A few episodes were penned by Stan & Jan Berenstein
posted by splen at 2:22 PM on December 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
A few episodes were penned by Stan & Jan Berenstein
posted by splen at 2:22 PM on December 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
And the only way to have a wiki with differing editorial policies is to make your own.
Sure, making your own wiki is, in fact, quite easy; you can just start one on wikia in a trice if you don't mind their ads or whatever it is they do. But saying "start your own Wikipedia" is like saying "don't like Linus's attitude on LKML? Just write your own operating system."
Indeed, if you do that, you can set the policies on its associated mailing lists! And those policies will likely be exceptionally easy to enforce.
posted by kenko at 2:25 PM on December 23, 2015
Sure, making your own wiki is, in fact, quite easy; you can just start one on wikia in a trice if you don't mind their ads or whatever it is they do. But saying "start your own Wikipedia" is like saying "don't like Linus's attitude on LKML? Just write your own operating system."
Indeed, if you do that, you can set the policies on its associated mailing lists! And those policies will likely be exceptionally easy to enforce.
posted by kenko at 2:25 PM on December 23, 2015
i'm making my own metafilter and guess who isn't invited
posted by poffin boffin at 2:27 PM on December 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:27 PM on December 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
> As someone who considers deliberately inserting false information into Wikipedia to be akin to peeing in the public water supply, I suggest you find a better way to spend your time…
Hey man if you want to have an epistemology throwdown, I'm ready. Any place, any time. Your rules... my interpretation.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:32 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
Hey man if you want to have an epistemology throwdown, I'm ready. Any place, any time. Your rules... my interpretation.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:32 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
From the notable Jews of New York link:
Mark Zuckerberg, Founder of Facebook, 16th richest person in the World; 2nd richest Jew in the World.
Who's the richest Jew in the world?
posted by subdee at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2015
Mark Zuckerberg, Founder of Facebook, 16th richest person in the World; 2nd richest Jew in the World.
Who's the richest Jew in the world?
posted by subdee at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2015
Subtly inserting false information into wikipedia on purpose is a total dick move even if it already contains a bunch of crap.
Peeing into the public water supply is probably not a huge deal, though, so I'm not sure what that comparison was supposed to do.
posted by kenko at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Peeing into the public water supply is probably not a huge deal, though, so I'm not sure what that comparison was supposed to do.
posted by kenko at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seconding that it seems weird for this post to conflate the very real problem of Wikipedia's gender imbalance and the bias that ensues, with these pretty neutral-seeming, and not particularly gender-related deletions.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:36 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:36 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
nvm, Forbes has me covered: http://www.jpost.com/Business/Business-Features/Forbes-ranking-The-worlds-richest-Jews-310104
posted by subdee at 2:36 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by subdee at 2:36 PM on December 23, 2015
But saying "start your own Wikipedia" is like saying "don't like Linus's attitude on LKML? Just write your own operating system."
It isn't even - it's like saying "write your own Linux kernel". 'Start your own wiki-based encyclopaedia' would be like what you're saying.
"Start your own Wikipedia" doesn't even make sense as a sentiment.
posted by Dysk at 2:37 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
It isn't even - it's like saying "write your own Linux kernel". 'Start your own wiki-based encyclopaedia' would be like what you're saying.
"Start your own Wikipedia" doesn't even make sense as a sentiment.
posted by Dysk at 2:37 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Start your own Wikipedia" doesn't even make sense as a sentiment.
Of course it does.
When someone says, for instance, "Trieste is no Vienna", they aren't saying that Trieste is not identical to the city of Vienna, they're saying that Trieste is, say, not cosmopolitan. They're invoking Vienna as a concept. The same is going on with "start your own Wikipedia".
posted by kenko at 2:40 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Of course it does.
When someone says, for instance, "Trieste is no Vienna", they aren't saying that Trieste is not identical to the city of Vienna, they're saying that Trieste is, say, not cosmopolitan. They're invoking Vienna as a concept. The same is going on with "start your own Wikipedia".
posted by kenko at 2:40 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Count Chocula scandal may prove that Wikipedia administrators are cheerless buttplugs, but Citizendium is still difficult to say without spitting on the screen.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:41 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:41 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The only possible way for [x] to have more women is for women to make their own [y].Substituting for [x] and [y]:
Boards of directors; corporations.
Scientists; universities.
Congress; governments.
Hmm...
posted by klanawa at 2:43 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Okay fine serious-hatting for a second, wikipedia as a cultural memory practice or whatever is tremendously valuable up to the moment that it becomes trustable as a single-source clearinghouse for a general overview of all meaningful information, at which point it becomes impossible to extricate from a particular difficult-to-work-with type of power, that manifests through the POV that inevitably arises from attempts to enforce NPOV, a POV that tends to be (like most encyclopedians) white, metropolitan, educated, rich, male, fussy, and incredibly literal minded.
I legit think the best version of wikipedia was the earliest one, where content similar in form to the current wikipedia was mixed fairly indiscriminately with content that reads more like stuff from Everything 2 — the version of wikipedia before wikipedians started demanding of themselves that they pretend they're not in large part there to talk about their favorite television shows.
Regardless of whether or not it was right for me to spend that evening meticulously forging evidence of the existence of the Alameda-Weehawken Burrito Tunnel in the wikipedia pages for small middle american towns that would be directly over its route if it existed, I nevertheless continue to feel a glorious lack of shame.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:55 PM on December 23, 2015 [27 favorites]
I legit think the best version of wikipedia was the earliest one, where content similar in form to the current wikipedia was mixed fairly indiscriminately with content that reads more like stuff from Everything 2 — the version of wikipedia before wikipedians started demanding of themselves that they pretend they're not in large part there to talk about their favorite television shows.
Regardless of whether or not it was right for me to spend that evening meticulously forging evidence of the existence of the Alameda-Weehawken Burrito Tunnel in the wikipedia pages for small middle american towns that would be directly over its route if it existed, I nevertheless continue to feel a glorious lack of shame.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:55 PM on December 23, 2015 [27 favorites]
The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that there is no such thing as “Easy Listening Satanic.”
I once found a CD of Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan, playing various standards on the home organ (which apparently was what he enjoyed doing when he wasn't busy with his duties as a Satanic high priest). It may have been "easy listening" in genre, but wasn't particularly listenable, sounding more like someone's home recordings (which it may well have been). My impression was that, were it not for the performer's notoriety, it is unlikely that it would have seen the light of day.
posted by acb at 2:56 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
I once found a CD of Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan, playing various standards on the home organ (which apparently was what he enjoyed doing when he wasn't busy with his duties as a Satanic high priest). It may have been "easy listening" in genre, but wasn't particularly listenable, sounding more like someone's home recordings (which it may well have been). My impression was that, were it not for the performer's notoriety, it is unlikely that it would have seen the light of day.
posted by acb at 2:56 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
If "Magic Mansion" is a hoax, it goes pretty deep. The IMDb page lists Warren Chaney as the star. Chaney has a full bio on IMDb that includes not only his screen credits as an actor, producer and director but also his accomplishments as a businessman and author. If you check Amazon, you find a couple of his books on sale, with an author's bio that details Chaney's show business work, including "Magic Mansion." Best of all, he's got a Facebook page where he favorites "Ventriloquist Central."
posted by layceepee at 2:57 PM on December 23, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by layceepee at 2:57 PM on December 23, 2015 [11 favorites]
the version of wikipedia before wikipedians started demanding of themselves that they pretend they're not in large part there to talk about their favorite television shows.
Articles about tv shows are still pretty hilariously revelatory of the shows' audiences, often.
posted by kenko at 2:57 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Articles about tv shows are still pretty hilariously revelatory of the shows' audiences, often.
posted by kenko at 2:57 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
(also, thanks to the wikipedians who, after the most recent metafilter post that linked to serious critiques of the wikipedia project, reached out to metafilter to discuss wikipedia's ongoing attempts to control/mitigate the damage caused by its POV problems and flawed evidentiary standards.)
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:59 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:59 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Who's the richest Jew in the world?
posted by subdee at 5:35 PM on December 23
Michael Bloomberg.
i'm making my own metafilter and guess who isn't invited
posted by poffin boffin at 5:27 PM on December 23
Everyone you blame for every dream you left behind.
posted by four panels at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by subdee at 5:35 PM on December 23
Michael Bloomberg.
i'm making my own metafilter and guess who isn't invited
posted by poffin boffin at 5:27 PM on December 23
Everyone you blame for every dream you left behind.
posted by four panels at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
> Everyone you blame for every dream you left behind.
well that's a great sockpuppet name, is what that is.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:02 PM on December 23, 2015 [18 favorites]
well that's a great sockpuppet name, is what that is.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:02 PM on December 23, 2015 [18 favorites]
If that IMDb page isn't real someone has been working on this since at least 2011.
posted by dilaudid at 3:09 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by dilaudid at 3:09 PM on December 23, 2015
ugh deep down I'm really Edward Nygma, aren't I?
Okay: the ongoing project actually does not violate wikipedia rules, as far as I can tell. Your clues, if you want to try to unravel it, are flash fiction and acrostic. Your first two guesses are wrong. Good luck!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Okay: the ongoing project actually does not violate wikipedia rules, as far as I can tell. Your clues, if you want to try to unravel it, are flash fiction and acrostic. Your first two guesses are wrong. Good luck!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
We're through the looking glass here people
posted by The Whelk at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
The IMDb page lists Warren Chaney as the star. Chaney has a full bio on IMDb that includes not only his screen credits as an actor, producer and director but also his accomplishments as a businessman and author.
Yes, but only one of his two bios on the IMDB page mentions Magic Mansion.
Although, I searched for his co-star, Harriet Zorich, and found this...
posted by nubs at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, but only one of his two bios on the IMDB page mentions Magic Mansion.
Although, I searched for his co-star, Harriet Zorich, and found this...
posted by nubs at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
cheerless buttplugs
Surely an oxymoron.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:15 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
Surely an oxymoron.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:15 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
Here's an interesting look at Warren Chaney on wikipedia. I wonder if he was doing all this himself?
posted by dilaudid at 3:16 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 3:16 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
You can't be the world's encyclopedia if you're excluding the Wellywoman.
*Rushes to check Xylophone Man is still there...* Phew
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:17 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
*Rushes to check Xylophone Man is still there...* Phew
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:17 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The 1913 edition of Wikipedia was the last one you could trust.
posted by Chitownfats at 3:19 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Chitownfats at 3:19 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
Guys what if this whole Magic Mansion thing is just a test of some kind to see which us internet detectives is good enough to help STEAL THE DECLARAION OF INDEPENDENCE?!
posted by The Whelk at 3:20 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 3:20 PM on December 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
OK, this lends some credibility to the Magic Mansion story.
And it sounds like Dr. Chaney married Harriet.
posted by nubs at 3:21 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
And it sounds like Dr. Chaney married Harriet.
posted by nubs at 3:21 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
Maybe Magic Mansion was the show with that paint roller gag in the credits
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:25 PM on December 23, 2015 [24 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:25 PM on December 23, 2015 [24 favorites]
> Guys what if this whole Magic Mansion thing is just a test of some kind to see which us internet detectives is good enough to help STEAL THE DECLARAION OF INDEPENDENCE?!
nah it's a test run by an alien species that needs a commander for their star fleet. the only reason why we don't see how Magic Mansion and being an alien star fleet commander are connected is because we haven't solved the mystery yet.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:25 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
nah it's a test run by an alien species that needs a commander for their star fleet. the only reason why we don't see how Magic Mansion and being an alien star fleet commander are connected is because we haven't solved the mystery yet.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:25 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
okay but seriously, remember that Marginal Revolution thread about what we should as a civilization unlearn? It turns out that they realized that we needed to unlearn Magic Mansion. What appears to us to be a meticulous hoax is just what the process of unlearning looks like in practice.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:27 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:27 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
How deep does this go
We can't handle the truth
posted by nubs at 3:28 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
We can't handle the truth
posted by nubs at 3:28 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
But then what is New Zealand?
posted by indubitable at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by indubitable at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2015
We find a relic in the desert, made from advanced materials but seemingly anicent, it says, in painstaking mathematical code THERE IS NO HONOR HERE. WE CONSIDERED OURSELVES A POWERFUL CULTURE. THE OBJECT INSIDE WILL DESTORY. ITS EFFECTS ARE ON THE MIND. DO NOT REVIVE MAGIC MANSION.
posted by The Whelk at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [11 favorites]
New Zealand is a hoax perpetrated by Milky Edwards and the Chamberlings, the band that David Bowie covered on Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
THE OBJECT INSIDE WILL DESTORY
De-Story? Are we talking about the device that physically adapts books into movies?
posted by nubs at 3:34 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
De-Story? Are we talking about the device that physically adapts books into movies?
posted by nubs at 3:34 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Does Magic Mansion have an entry on SCP Wiki yet?
posted by indubitable at 3:34 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 3:34 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
No special procedure can contain Magic Mansion.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:40 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:40 PM on December 23, 2015
Magic Mansion is Frog Fractions 2
posted by oulipian at 3:47 PM on December 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 3:47 PM on December 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
The idea of a world without that funny feeling at the base of my spine that a mystery like Magic Mansion always seems to inspire is a dour and joyless one, Wikipedia's integrity be damned.
posted by graymouser at 4:08 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by graymouser at 4:08 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
THE OBJECT INSIDE WILL DESTORY
STEPHEN? STEPHEN RATLIFF? WELCOME TO METAFILTER, STEPHEN!
posted by Wolfdog at 4:27 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
STEPHEN? STEPHEN RATLIFF? WELCOME TO METAFILTER, STEPHEN!
posted by Wolfdog at 4:27 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
“The great tragedy of Wikipedia - the slaying of a beautiful Magic Mansion by a boring discussion and vote.” – Thomas Huxley, Wikiquote.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
ACTUALLY, Plato said that.
posted by Wolfdog at 4:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 4:30 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Deletionpedia has existed for awhile and if you ask an admin for the XML output of most any deleted article, you can get it. Why is this framed as an issue related to men?
posted by koavf at 4:37 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by koavf at 4:37 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Because Gawker hearts clickbait.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:41 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:41 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Deletionpedia has existed for awhile and if you ask an admin for the XML output of most any deleted article, you can get it. Why is this framed as an issue related to men?
Well Wikipedia's contributors skew very heavily male, and there are serious conversations people are having about that, and somebody from Gawker threw in a link on the subject either because they just thought it was something people should read or to establish a humorous initial false gravity as the intro to their own silly article?
posted by atoxyl at 4:45 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
What I want to know is why there's so little on the web anymore on Furnitures, The Great Brown Oaf!
posted by JHarris at 4:49 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 4:49 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
okay here's what we do: we photoshop up some obviously photoshopped images related to an obscure early television show that actually existed — ideally one of the ones for which most of the footage is lost, maybe one of the shows that the BBC erased that time they made a stupid in the 70s. Then we slowly, carefully establish a web presence for that show that prominently features these photoshopped images mixed in with real images from the show, and that describes the show mostly correctly, but with some details that are not just wrong but actually upon further examination impossible.
And then we see if we can get the (actual existing) show removed from wikipedia.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:59 PM on December 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
And then we see if we can get the (actual existing) show removed from wikipedia.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:59 PM on December 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
nubs: OK, this lends some credibility to the Magic Mansion story.
And a list of productions that check out independently from Chaney and IMDB:
http://www.spokeo.com/Warren+Chaney+1
For one example, A Call to Greatness is a patriotic piece that lists Cheney in the trailer credits at 4:43, uploaded in 2011. Obviously this could be faked for some experiment, but the production itself is less notable than the alleged hoax, so there's that.
And here's a history from Chaney himself, which sounds like a retired guy with lots of wholesome memories of live performance TV, which oddly may have become unbelievable in the internet age:
http://www.swapsale.com/television1.htm
Harriett Zorich was the magician’s in resident assistant and much better organized than the rest of us. She was delightful to work with, the kids loved her and it did not hurt that she was easy on the eyes. She had been classically trained on the piano, had been a concert performer and was classy. Somehow, I felt that deep down she always wondered what she was dong – doing these shows. She was an Army nurse and frequently became the set’s first aid personnel.
Private David Kerne has played our Leprechaun with the invisible band and at Christmas time, moonlighted as our Santa Claus.
posted by Brian B. at 5:08 PM on December 23, 2015
And a list of productions that check out independently from Chaney and IMDB:
http://www.spokeo.com/Warren+Chaney+1
For one example, A Call to Greatness is a patriotic piece that lists Cheney in the trailer credits at 4:43, uploaded in 2011. Obviously this could be faked for some experiment, but the production itself is less notable than the alleged hoax, so there's that.
And here's a history from Chaney himself, which sounds like a retired guy with lots of wholesome memories of live performance TV, which oddly may have become unbelievable in the internet age:
http://www.swapsale.com/television1.htm
Harriett Zorich was the magician’s in resident assistant and much better organized than the rest of us. She was delightful to work with, the kids loved her and it did not hurt that she was easy on the eyes. She had been classically trained on the piano, had been a concert performer and was classy. Somehow, I felt that deep down she always wondered what she was dong – doing these shows. She was an Army nurse and frequently became the set’s first aid personnel.
Private David Kerne has played our Leprechaun with the invisible band and at Christmas time, moonlighted as our Santa Claus.
posted by Brian B. at 5:08 PM on December 23, 2015
Wikipedia is fooled again - this time the Metafilter Internet Detective Squad solves the mystery of the Magic Mansion. Take that, Scooby Doo!
posted by marienbad at 5:44 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by marienbad at 5:44 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
we photoshop up some obviously photoshopped images related to an obscure early television show that actually existed
or there's this
posted by poffin boffin at 5:44 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
or there's this
posted by poffin boffin at 5:44 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
You can't tip a Buick:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/30968/11-great-television-shows-are-lost-forever
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2010/nov/03/lost-bbc-drama-missing-believed-wiped
I'm in, as you can probably tell.
posted by marienbad at 5:51 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
http://mentalfloss.com/article/30968/11-great-television-shows-are-lost-forever
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2010/nov/03/lost-bbc-drama-missing-believed-wiped
I'm in, as you can probably tell.
posted by marienbad at 5:51 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
nubs' link seems pretty conclusive. Unless this is a hoax that Warren Chaney has been running for 40 years, it was a real show. It's definitely not some internet-era fake, at least, though some photos could be.
posted by tavella at 6:11 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 6:11 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the deletion talk page, one user claims that the newspaper that mentioned Magic Mansion is "extremely dubious", as if someone set up a hoax in 1978 so they could make a fake wikipedia page about it in 2015.
That said, I think there's no way those images are really from the alleged show. This is my favorite mystery ever.
posted by kiltedtaco at 6:53 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
That said, I think there's no way those images are really from the alleged show. This is my favorite mystery ever.
posted by kiltedtaco at 6:53 PM on December 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think maybe the proper response is not to delete the page but instead to flag it as like ontologically unstable.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:00 PM on December 23, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:00 PM on December 23, 2015 [16 favorites]
On the deletion talk page, one user claims that the newspaper that mentioned Magic Mansion is "extremely dubious", as if someone set up a hoax in 1978 so they could make a fake wikipedia page about it in 2015.
Or perhaps they were making the same extreme exaggerations about the show in 1978 that they repeated in the Wikipedia entry.
I found two versions of the America--A Call to Greatness trailer. One says it was a feature film released in 1995 and "maintained continuous screenings for fifteen years." The other one says it was a "highly patriotic television special broadcast in 1994."
The version that says it was a movie says there was a home video release in 2011, but I can't find any record of a full-length version offered for sale. I've got a suspicion that the trailer is all the ever existed and that the actual existence of Magic Mansion is similarly hyped.
But it's been a lot of fun spending an evening with Warren Chaney.
posted by layceepee at 7:17 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Or perhaps they were making the same extreme exaggerations about the show in 1978 that they repeated in the Wikipedia entry.
I found two versions of the America--A Call to Greatness trailer. One says it was a feature film released in 1995 and "maintained continuous screenings for fifteen years." The other one says it was a "highly patriotic television special broadcast in 1994."
The version that says it was a movie says there was a home video release in 2011, but I can't find any record of a full-length version offered for sale. I've got a suspicion that the trailer is all the ever existed and that the actual existence of Magic Mansion is similarly hyped.
But it's been a lot of fun spending an evening with Warren Chaney.
posted by layceepee at 7:17 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
okay here's what we do: we photoshop up some obviously photoshopped images related to an obscure early television show that actually existed — ideally one of the ones for which most of the footage is lost, maybe one of the shows that the BBC erased that time they made a stupid in the 70s. Then we slowly, carefully establish a web presence for that show that prominently features these photoshopped images mixed in with real images from the show, and that describes the show mostly correctly, but with some details that are not just wrong but actually upon further examination impossible.
And then we see if we can get the (actual existing) show removed from wikipedia.
you know
i think someone might've beaten you to the punch
can you guess who
posted by solarion at 7:26 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
And then we see if we can get the (actual existing) show removed from wikipedia.
you know
i think someone might've beaten you to the punch
can you guess who
posted by solarion at 7:26 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
Everything about Magic Mansion pushes all my buttons and is the kind of thing I love. Add in the fact that I lived in Okinawa in the early 70’s as a child and watched AFRTS all the time and I couldn’t be happier that this story is being told now. Now I’ll have to share my knowledge of this on the internet.
posted by bongo_x at 7:32 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bongo_x at 7:32 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
http://mentalfloss.com/article/30968/11-great-television-shows-are-lost-forever
I don’t see Adam Adamant on that list.
posted by bongo_x at 7:34 PM on December 23, 2015
I don’t see Adam Adamant on that list.
posted by bongo_x at 7:34 PM on December 23, 2015
On the deletion talk page, one user claims that the newspaper that mentioned Magic Mansion is "extremely dubious"
The New Era newspaper archive goes back to 1874, the paper has an extensive online edition, and if you check google maps, you can streetview the New Era building in Hopkinsville.
I would gather that person does not actually know the definition of dubious.
posted by tavella at 7:48 PM on December 23, 2015
The New Era newspaper archive goes back to 1874, the paper has an extensive online edition, and if you check google maps, you can streetview the New Era building in Hopkinsville.
I would gather that person does not actually know the definition of dubious.
posted by tavella at 7:48 PM on December 23, 2015
anyway we should start adding all the stuff from this thread to wikipedia first thing in the morning on friday when no one is looking
posted by poffin boffin at 8:00 PM on December 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:00 PM on December 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would gather that person does not actually know the definition of dubious.
I think the reason they say it is dubious is that it isn't exactly clear where the statements about the show originate in that article; given that it's a nice profile of Dr. Chaney, the argument could be made that Dr. Chaney made the statements about Magic Mansion and the paper ran them without doing any checking.
To me, it would be odd that Dr. Chaney has been talking up a fake, non-existent TV show for that long. It just doesn't seem like something that would be worth doing, because it certainly hasn't lead to anything other than a bunch of strangers on the Internet arguing about whether or not the show ever existed.
posted by nubs at 8:04 PM on December 23, 2015
I think the reason they say it is dubious is that it isn't exactly clear where the statements about the show originate in that article; given that it's a nice profile of Dr. Chaney, the argument could be made that Dr. Chaney made the statements about Magic Mansion and the paper ran them without doing any checking.
To me, it would be odd that Dr. Chaney has been talking up a fake, non-existent TV show for that long. It just doesn't seem like something that would be worth doing, because it certainly hasn't lead to anything other than a bunch of strangers on the Internet arguing about whether or not the show ever existed.
posted by nubs at 8:04 PM on December 23, 2015
> To me, it would be odd that Dr. Chaney has been talking up a fake, non-existent TV show for that long.
if you do a quick s/odd/super\ rad/g on that, I'd agree.
> It just doesn't seem like something that would be worth doing, because it certainly hasn't lead to anything other than a bunch of strangers on the Internet arguing about whether or not the show ever existed.
no i'd have to say that seems like something extremely worth doing. "People of the 21st century will use a futuristic omnipresent computer communications network that allows them to gather on worldwide digital message boards, and argue about whether your show exists and is thus worthy of inclusion in the popular authoritative volunteer-written multilingual universal encyclopedia and television show reference" sounds like an extremely good reason for someone in 1978 to do something.
If that's what went down, Warren Chaney's a pretty cool guy in my book. He's no Psalmanazar or anything, but he's still pretty cool.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:26 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
if you do a quick s/odd/super\ rad/g on that, I'd agree.
> It just doesn't seem like something that would be worth doing, because it certainly hasn't lead to anything other than a bunch of strangers on the Internet arguing about whether or not the show ever existed.
no i'd have to say that seems like something extremely worth doing. "People of the 21st century will use a futuristic omnipresent computer communications network that allows them to gather on worldwide digital message boards, and argue about whether your show exists and is thus worthy of inclusion in the popular authoritative volunteer-written multilingual universal encyclopedia and television show reference" sounds like an extremely good reason for someone in 1978 to do something.
If that's what went down, Warren Chaney's a pretty cool guy in my book. He's no Psalmanazar or anything, but he's still pretty cool.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:26 PM on December 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
From the wikipedia comments favoring deletion of the article:
For one thing, the article says that Magic Mansion was an original production of the Armed Forces Radio & Television Service (AFRTS). I’ve been looking into that angle and it seems extremely unlikely that in the 1960’s, AFRTS was creating original TV sitcoms that aired on an ongoing basis for 3 years and were written, acted, filmed and produced by servicemen in Okinawa.
So this is presumed to be photoshopped. That's interesting too. I propose that where the TV cameras are, there were previously a pair of recoiless rifles.
posted by Brian B. at 8:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
For one thing, the article says that Magic Mansion was an original production of the Armed Forces Radio & Television Service (AFRTS). I’ve been looking into that angle and it seems extremely unlikely that in the 1960’s, AFRTS was creating original TV sitcoms that aired on an ongoing basis for 3 years and were written, acted, filmed and produced by servicemen in Okinawa.
So this is presumed to be photoshopped. That's interesting too. I propose that where the TV cameras are, there were previously a pair of recoiless rifles.
posted by Brian B. at 8:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've totally known one or two people who would keep up an epic hoax for decades just for laughs.
posted by indubitable at 8:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by indubitable at 8:29 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd like to remind people younger than me that we had photoshopping in the pre-PC days; we just did it with such things as cutting one image out, pasting it on top of another, and taking a new photo of the result. Fancier people did it with negatives and more sophisticated tools. Something being photoshopped doesn't mean it is fake, compositing people onto more glamorous backgrounds was a staple.
Basically, there's three possibilities: that a guy (who genuinely was an army guy stationed in Okinawa in the 60s with a ventriloquist act) dressed that up with a story of a low-end tv show on the local military network and has stuck with that for 40 years. Not the craziest thing a person has ever done, but seems kind of pointless.
Second, that he indeed had the show and then a couple of years ago he or perhaps a younger relative decided it should be recorded in the various places that old tv shows get recorded, with a certain amount of ego, and the professional paranoids of the deletionist tendency mistook that and the cheesy 60s promo as a fake-up of said cheesiness.
Or third, someone found out about the show and decided to do Wikipedia/Internet performance art with it, as described above.
I'm inclined to think it's possibility two, myself.
posted by tavella at 8:51 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Basically, there's three possibilities: that a guy (who genuinely was an army guy stationed in Okinawa in the 60s with a ventriloquist act) dressed that up with a story of a low-end tv show on the local military network and has stuck with that for 40 years. Not the craziest thing a person has ever done, but seems kind of pointless.
Second, that he indeed had the show and then a couple of years ago he or perhaps a younger relative decided it should be recorded in the various places that old tv shows get recorded, with a certain amount of ego, and the professional paranoids of the deletionist tendency mistook that and the cheesy 60s promo as a fake-up of said cheesiness.
Or third, someone found out about the show and decided to do Wikipedia/Internet performance art with it, as described above.
I'm inclined to think it's possibility two, myself.
posted by tavella at 8:51 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
The fonts that are used in the images were not available in the pre-photoshopping days.
posted by dilaudid at 8:54 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by dilaudid at 8:54 PM on December 23, 2015
So I started to look up wikipedia's policy on meta-articles. What got me thinking about this is trying to figure out whether wikipedia would consider a wikipedia page about the Magic Mansion hoax as being valid. I assume anything like that would have to be on meta.wikimedia.org rather than on wikipedia itself — although there's pages that in large part are devoted to analysis of events that happened on wikipedia (c.f. the Cultural impact of The Colbert Report article), these pages are about broader things that also happened to touch on wikipedia, rather than being solely devoted to events on wikipedia.
but then I got distracted, because I got to thinking about how disputes related to the management of meta.wikimedia.org are managed, and ended up finding this page for a meta-meta project to reform meta.wikimedia.org to remove unnecessary articles and make meta more inviting to newcomers, a project that was first started in 2006.
So I guess now questions I have are:
but then I got distracted, because I got to thinking about how disputes related to the management of meta.wikimedia.org are managed, and ended up finding this page for a meta-meta project to reform meta.wikimedia.org to remove unnecessary articles and make meta more inviting to newcomers, a project that was first started in 2006.
So I guess now questions I have are:
- How deep does the meta go? Is the Meta Metaproject to overhaul Meta as meta as it gets, or do they have an internal meta we could investigate?
- The way that wikimedia tries to avoid self-reference by constructing multiple orders of wikis wherein events on one order of wikis can only be directly discussed on the set of wikis one order up from them reminds me of Russell and Whitehead's attempt to resolve Russell's paradox through doing something similar. As such, is it possible to not just vandalize but actually gödelize wikipedia by constructing a wiki page that's true but unprovable within wikipedia? Can we construct a formal proof that wikipedia cannot be both complete and consistent?
The title card fonts are Hobo and Helvetica and Times, which have all existed for a long time, but 1960s TV shows didn't use them like that.
posted by enf at 8:58 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by enf at 8:58 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The title card fonts are Hobo and Helvetica and Times, which have all existed for a long time, but 1960s TV shows didn't use them like that.
The MM over the door looks like it's shaded with a photoshop bevel.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:04 PM on December 23, 2015
The MM over the door looks like it's shaded with a photoshop bevel.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:04 PM on December 23, 2015
Note that the 'title card' photo was uploaded on Dec 11, and the deletion arguments start Dec 10. I suspect anything recent is people playing games, but I don't think it means that the 2011-era stuff is necessarily fake.
posted by tavella at 9:09 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 9:09 PM on December 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
That title card image also dates from 2011 (or earlier)
posted by Awkward Philip at 9:23 PM on December 23, 2015
posted by Awkward Philip at 9:23 PM on December 23, 2015
I haven't really gone deep on this, but Googling "Harriet Chaney RN" immediately surfaces a hyperaccomplished healthcare professional with a PhD and a professorship. She does indeed appear to have been running the show. Warren is clearly a man of perspicacity.
posted by mwhybark at 10:21 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mwhybark at 10:21 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I admire an ambitious hoax, but I can't believe that's a 1960s title card. The fuzzy shadows on the lettering, and the very subtle bevel on "Magic Mansion", are things you can do in about two seconds in Photoshop, and for that era they are not only non-characteristic, but they're absurdly overdone.
The Wikipedia image is provided at 3840x3155 resolution (and you have to magnify it to maximum to see the bevel on the main title). 1960s TV had 480 lines vertically.
posted by zompist at 10:53 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
The Wikipedia image is provided at 3840x3155 resolution (and you have to magnify it to maximum to see the bevel on the main title). 1960s TV had 480 lines vertically.
posted by zompist at 10:53 PM on December 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
I don't think anyone is arguing the title cards or collages are period-authentic artifacts. If I had to guess, I'd say Dr. Chaney has very much enjoyed trying to reporduce his recollection of the show's material using a mix of production stills, shop, and Times New Roman Bold with warp effects.
I note he does claim some of the shows remain extant; it surely is possible to, you know, call him and Harriett and do journalism on this matter. I wonder, does the New Era still exist, and would they take a pitch?
posted by mwhybark at 11:03 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I note he does claim some of the shows remain extant; it surely is possible to, you know, call him and Harriett and do journalism on this matter. I wonder, does the New Era still exist, and would they take a pitch?
posted by mwhybark at 11:03 PM on December 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
After following all the links so far, I am still don't know what to think about the veracity of "Magic Mountain". But the idea that either:
1) Somebody made the whole thing up and kept up the ruse for 27 years.
or
2)The series existed as described but (not entirely implausibly) has vanished from the cultural RADAR to the extent that nobody can properly verify it.
Are both a lot more interesting stories than the Gawker article in the FPP.
posted by rongorongo at 2:07 AM on December 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
1) Somebody made the whole thing up and kept up the ruse for 27 years.
or
2)The series existed as described but (not entirely implausibly) has vanished from the cultural RADAR to the extent that nobody can properly verify it.
Are both a lot more interesting stories than the Gawker article in the FPP.
posted by rongorongo at 2:07 AM on December 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Holy crap, who wrote the Wikiargumentbot and unleashed it on MeFi last night? This is uncanny.
posted by Spatch at 3:09 AM on December 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Spatch at 3:09 AM on December 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
On LinkedIn here is Warren H Chaney's page, and - he would be 73. Here is Harriet Chaney's (and a photo of her from 2009). She would be the same age.
(it makes me smile that the series, gets a 6.1 viewer rating on IMDB, a listing on somebody's "John Wayne films still to see" list on the same site - and even a page on this Czech site).
posted by rongorongo at 3:29 AM on December 24, 2015
(it makes me smile that the series, gets a 6.1 viewer rating on IMDB, a listing on somebody's "John Wayne films still to see" list on the same site - and even a page on this Czech site).
posted by rongorongo at 3:29 AM on December 24, 2015
1) Somebody made the whole thing up and kept up the ruse for 27 years.
or
2)The series existed as described but (not entirely implausibly) has vanished from the cultural RADAR to the extent that nobody can properly verify it.
For context, I can tell you that variety shows like Magic Mansion were common in the early days of broadcast, as local productions in every major market, before videotape. Local television came into its own around the time of MM, and besides news and weather, they were typically children's shows, with magicians, clowns, people like Mister Rogers reading stories, doing all kinds of stuff. It is how people entertained themselves before television. Little if any of it survived. I can safely assert that young people have been seriously brainwashed about technology if they insist to doubt Chaney, and especially if they doubt the US military's ability and inevitability to supply a local children's show through volunteer assignments. There are dozens more like Chaney that didn't have the still photos on file, or didn't have the success to brag about, but instead simply went on the air with their puppets and costumes and then died before the internet tried to erase them again.
posted by Brian B. at 6:58 AM on December 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
or
2)The series existed as described but (not entirely implausibly) has vanished from the cultural RADAR to the extent that nobody can properly verify it.
For context, I can tell you that variety shows like Magic Mansion were common in the early days of broadcast, as local productions in every major market, before videotape. Local television came into its own around the time of MM, and besides news and weather, they were typically children's shows, with magicians, clowns, people like Mister Rogers reading stories, doing all kinds of stuff. It is how people entertained themselves before television. Little if any of it survived. I can safely assert that young people have been seriously brainwashed about technology if they insist to doubt Chaney, and especially if they doubt the US military's ability and inevitability to supply a local children's show through volunteer assignments. There are dozens more like Chaney that didn't have the still photos on file, or didn't have the success to brag about, but instead simply went on the air with their puppets and costumes and then died before the internet tried to erase them again.
posted by Brian B. at 6:58 AM on December 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
Guys, the Magic Chef Mansion is real! Clearly the image used in the title card of the show.
I'm really fascinated by this hoaxster and want to meet them badly, and find out their motivation, and what made them want to go so deep?
Maybe it's a part of some elaborate scam they are pulling on someone?
posted by mayonnaises at 7:44 AM on December 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm really fascinated by this hoaxster and want to meet them badly, and find out their motivation, and what made them want to go so deep?
Maybe it's a part of some elaborate scam they are pulling on someone?
posted by mayonnaises at 7:44 AM on December 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are dozens more like Chaney that didn't have the still photos on file, or didn't have the success to brag about, but instead simply went on the air with their puppets and costumes and then died before the internet tried to erase them again.
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Magic puppet shows on the Armed Forces Network. I watched Lounsberry clown in black and white on Okinawa. All these moments lost in time, like tears in rain. Should....have....digitized.
posted by nubs at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Magic puppet shows on the Armed Forces Network. I watched Lounsberry clown in black and white on Okinawa. All these moments lost in time, like tears in rain. Should....have....digitized.
posted by nubs at 8:14 AM on December 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
On the archive.org link that shows the title card existing in 2011, there's also this picture of a scene that was later photoshopped to add a new background. Why??
And the live show photo looks like it could be anything, with the name Magic Manson photoshopped in, but then these photos from on-stage appear to show the same venue and event, so these seem a little bit closer to being real? (minus the banner text.)
posted by kiltedtaco at 9:08 AM on December 24, 2015
.jpg){kind=link}
And the live show photo looks like it could be anything, with the name Magic Manson photoshopped in, but then these photos from on-stage appear to show the same venue and event, so these seem a little bit closer to being real? (minus the banner text.)
posted by kiltedtaco at 9:08 AM on December 24, 2015
other than a bunch of strangers on the Internet arguing about whether or not the show ever existed.
And you call that not worth doing??
posted by oheso at 3:09 PM on December 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
And you call that not worth doing??
posted by oheso at 3:09 PM on December 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
I've got a newspapers.com subscription and did a quick search for Warren Chaney. I didn't see any references to the Magic Mansion show, but I did find two short articles about him. Doesn't say much beyond him being a captain, a ventriloquist and magician.
posted by ymgve at 6:32 PM on December 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ymgve at 6:32 PM on December 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
As someone who considers deliberately inserting false information into Wikipedia to be akin to peeing in the public water supply,
I consider it closer to peeing into the water supply for Evian.
Early in my period as The Web's Wendell (a semi-hoax by itself) I inserted a hoax-y article into epinions.com that they didn't delete until almost 10 years later. I saved a copy for myself of my 'Travel' piece: "The Incredible Truth About Minneapolis". I also wrote a hoax-y article that was published by a "major mainstream media news website" in 2003: an 'Interview' with Opus the Penguin (the editors decided to cover their asses by labeling it "Parody", even though I pointed out that 51% of what the fictional penguin said was factually accurate and fully researched).
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:03 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I consider it closer to peeing into the water supply for Evian.
Early in my period as The Web's Wendell (a semi-hoax by itself) I inserted a hoax-y article into epinions.com that they didn't delete until almost 10 years later. I saved a copy for myself of my 'Travel' piece: "The Incredible Truth About Minneapolis". I also wrote a hoax-y article that was published by a "major mainstream media news website" in 2003: an 'Interview' with Opus the Penguin (the editors decided to cover their asses by labeling it "Parody", even though I pointed out that 51% of what the fictional penguin said was factually accurate and fully researched).
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:03 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
So we have Warren and Harriet Chaney - who appear to exist and to be quite prominent health professionals with reputations vulnerable to damage by a pulling a hoax.
Then, from various sources (the creator's backgrounds known backgrounds and the historical context) - we also have a plausible case that "Magic Mansion" - just might have really existed.
However we then have a flurry of activity on IMDB, Wikipedia and elsewhere - stemming from 2011, which looks obviously fraudulent: photoshopped images and a raft of non-existent films which appear to have been positively reviewed by the same sock puppet.
Pretty strange. If its a hoax then it is one which would be more credible with less supporting media.
posted by rongorongo at 5:57 AM on December 28, 2015
Then, from various sources (the creator's backgrounds known backgrounds and the historical context) - we also have a plausible case that "Magic Mansion" - just might have really existed.
However we then have a flurry of activity on IMDB, Wikipedia and elsewhere - stemming from 2011, which looks obviously fraudulent: photoshopped images and a raft of non-existent films which appear to have been positively reviewed by the same sock puppet.
Pretty strange. If its a hoax then it is one which would be more credible with less supporting media.
posted by rongorongo at 5:57 AM on December 28, 2015
I just read the (soon to be deleted) story of Little Ottie Powell, and it sort of hit me right, and I'm both fascinated and a little blue as a result.
posted by maxsparber at 1:32 PM on December 30, 2015
posted by maxsparber at 1:32 PM on December 30, 2015
Just in case anyone's still following this MeFi post and is too lazy to hunt for them: Magic Mantion WikiPedia deletion talk page, User talk:Rhododendrites/Chaney.
posted by christopherious at 10:12 AM on January 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by christopherious at 10:12 AM on January 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
The "reasons for deletion" discussion page christopherious linked to is pretty interesting - and a good counter argument to those claiming that Wikipedia deletions happen by some opaque and mysterious process. They also talk about the notion of "TNTing" a page. This emphasizes that a deletion need not be final - merely a method of clearing up something so flawed as to be un-fixable. The Magic Mansion page - or several of the others listed in the FPP article - could live again if somebody happens to come along with credible sources.
posted by rongorongo at 11:03 AM on January 4, 2016
posted by rongorongo at 11:03 AM on January 4, 2016
The Ottie Powell delete seems kind of stupid to me. There's a physical memorial at a popular hiking destination, which is exactly the sort of thing where someone might google for more information. You might as well delete all biographical or plane crash pages by the 'not a memorial' rubric.
posted by tavella at 11:04 AM on January 4, 2016
posted by tavella at 11:04 AM on January 4, 2016
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
The place it went was awesome, by the way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:11 PM on December 23, 2015 [7 favorites]