Backstab Machine
January 12, 2016 11:43 AM   Subscribe

Dark Souls (previously and previously) remains popular for its challenging single player, and dedicated PVP community. Github user Metal Crow has developed an AI for the PVP aspect of the game, and shows off its talents at this YouTube video. In the write-up.txt file at GitHub, he explains the process, capabilities, and difficulties of programming a bot for what is (ostensibly) a total black box of a game (Pastebinned version to add word wrap and improve readability). Especially interesting is the use of a neural network to train the bot to avoid backstabs.

A great deal of the knowledge required to create the hack comes from the debug mode of the game, leaked two years ago.

Bonus: Tumblr user Illusory Wall makes semi-frequent posts about cut content in the game using both Cheat Engine and the debug leak.
posted by codacorolla (27 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite
 
Can the AI figure out whether the player it is fighting is more likely to get salty at a "well, what is it?" or a "looks skyward" gesture after it beats them?
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:55 AM on January 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


Dark Souls PvP Invasion cue?

*unplugs network cable*


Take that devs.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:02 PM on January 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, sad I missed out on Dark Souls I. I only have 2.
posted by Samizdata at 1:21 PM on January 12, 2016


It's not really a black box if the AI reads the game state from memory. I would be more impressed if it played like it does and only had the input that a human player would have. Turing Souls.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 1:37 PM on January 12, 2016




DS I pops up in the Steam sales for super cheap on a regular basis Samizdata.
posted by pharm at 2:49 PM on January 12, 2016


Well that's weird. I'm just playing this. I don't want to look at my hour count. (or my cuss count)
posted by Trochanter at 3:28 PM on January 12, 2016


It's not really a black box if the AI reads the game state from memory. I would be more impressed if it played like it does and only had the input that a human player would have. Turing Souls.

That's a fair point. I more meant that the game itself isn't meant to be altered or understood at a machine level by players, unlike (say) an Elder's Scrolls Game.
posted by codacorolla at 3:35 PM on January 12, 2016


A fencing bot might be fun, but not a compulsive and perfect backstabber.
posted by Trochanter at 8:00 PM on January 12, 2016


*unplugs network cable*

I did this once on the run up to Orange+ Soda / Snorlax+Pikachu, and was almost immediately rewarded with a steam invite to a group called "you are a huge faggot".

It was from an early 20s "designer", with what looked like his real name. Meh.

I stalled on DS1 in the DLC, and didn't want to Finish the first run without that. That, and I didn't beat Dark Sun G, since for some reason I wanted to hear the voiceover you get from putting the lights out too early.

I Ragequit Demons Souls over an inventory thing, barely played 2, can't justify a ps4 with so much inplayed From Software.

I am CERTAIN that DS1 is a generationally transcendent game. Its NES Zelda, it's Fear Of a Black Planet, it's Robert Johnson at the crossroads, Slaughterhouse-Five, A Clockwork Orange, it's never going away, and everything before it looks crude, and everything after it looks derivative and somehow simplified.

And I still haven't beat the damn thing, and suck at PvP.
posted by lkc at 10:14 PM on January 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


those are great! I especially enjoyed the Brad Pitt one.
posted by Riton at 11:34 PM on January 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Riton, no you didn't. At least, not in this thread :)
posted by Captain Fetid at 12:48 AM on January 13, 2016


I just started DS 2, having given up on DS 1 (I got to the final boss, but never could defeat that beardy, fiery king). The DLC just got me stumped at the first boss (Artorias, iirc). I will finish it one day. I really will.

DS 2 has gotten to me again. I (again) am ready to sink in 100+ hours (I'm at 20 hours now), go through numerous frustrations and rage, dream of the game while sleeping and awake, resist from reading walkthroughs and help guides, only to be able to say (to myself, because no-one else really cares) I defeated all by myself.

During the last sale a lot of RPG's were recommended to me by Steam. It's strange, but none of them appeal to me. Does anyone know of a good analysis of Dark Souls, where it is explained what it is exactly about Dark Souls that makes it such an addictive experience? Why it is that people are happy to be clubbed to death, only to stand up again and get another beating?

posted by Captain Fetid at 12:57 AM on January 13, 2016


lkc: You’ll no doubt be pleased to hear that my 12 year old son just beat DS1.

Is Bloodbourne likely to ever hit PC or is it going to be a total PS exclusive forever?
posted by pharm at 1:14 AM on January 13, 2016


Captain Fetid: I recommend the podcast Bonfireside Chat, that has examined and discussed all of the Souls games in extreme detail. (And not just because I was a guest for the episode on DS2's No-Man's Wharf.) They recently did a talk at a game developer conference on what makes the Souls games good, the episode is called "Special: Lessons From Lordran".

Pharm: Sony fronted a bunch of the money for Bloordborne's development, so it will almost certainly be a PS4 exclusive for as long as PS4s are being sold.
posted by rifflesby at 1:31 AM on January 13, 2016


Captain Fetid: Some people like a single player game to actually be a *challenge*. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
posted by pharm at 1:39 AM on January 13, 2016


Pharm: I wouldn't think it's just the challenge factor. I like my games challenging too (today that's Dark Souls, but I'm also an avid iRacer, which is all about challenges naturally). This doesn't mean however I like all challenging games. By which I mean to say that there's more to the attraction of Dark Souls than the mere challenge.

Rifflesby: Thanks, I will definitely look into that! It could help me understand the games' attraction (Update: 81 episodes, whoa!)
posted by Captain Fetid at 1:58 AM on January 13, 2016


I want to see bot on bot action. That would be awesome.
posted by Samizdata at 2:54 AM on January 13, 2016


pharm: "DS I pops up in the Steam sales for super cheap on a regular basis Samizdata."

Best Steam sale in the world doesn't help if you don't have any plastic any more to pay with.
posted by Samizdata at 3:02 AM on January 13, 2016


Does anyone know of a good analysis of Dark Souls

Worlds Worth Believing In: On Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls (warning: spoilers for environments in Demon's and Dark Souls)
posted by Bangaioh at 7:53 AM on January 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Thanks Bangaioh. The essay is a bit convoluted, but if there's one word that gave me a twang of "yes, that's it!" it's permutations.

Great videogames explain without explaining, and by evolving on the base set of rules it has unspokenly established for you, you instinctively feel there's a certain consistency to whatever the game is throwing at you. (Now I think of it: it is similar to the design philosophy found in the Mario games.)

That is exactly why Dark Souls has never felt unfair, however frustratingly hard it may be on the player.
posted by Captain Fetid at 9:10 AM on January 13, 2016


That is exactly why Dark Souls has never felt unfair, however frustratingly hard it may be on the player.

I've never really felt that to be true. The game rubs your face in its bad camera mechanics a lot. The fight with the Capra Demon is really rough that way. And the lock-on thing.

I agree with pretty much everything in this Honest Game Trailer, but in spite of that, these are easily some of the best games ever.

I should say, though, that if I couldn't save scum, I'd have quit a long time ago. I have paid my dues.

Also the internet walkthroughs and tips and all have made gaming a lot better for me in all games. The communities are just great. I hear X-Com 2 is going to be wide open for modders which should be really good.
posted by Trochanter at 9:29 AM on January 13, 2016


Worlds Worth Believing In: On Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls

This nails it pretty well, although it doesn't even touch on the appeal of the PvP aspects of the game, which kept me playing long after I'd explored every last corner of the game and thoroughly soaked up the atmosphere.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:51 AM on January 13, 2016


Samizdata: "Best Steam sale in the world doesn't help if you don't have any plastic any more to pay with."

check your memail
posted by drumcorpse at 1:12 PM on January 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I was going to say I'll buy it for you.
posted by Trochanter at 1:18 PM on January 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Beat Smough and Ornstein. You do NOT want to know how many times it took me to do it.
posted by Trochanter at 12:21 PM on January 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Dark Souls: It's like an NES Game!
Dark Souls isn't a nostalgic aping of the NES era - throw in some "chiptune" music and some "pixel-art" graphics and claim to have throwback sensibilities. Dark Souls doesn't have a throwback aesthetic, it has a throwback design aesthetic. It exists on a largely unexplored alternate evolutionary path that rejects much of what has become conventional design wisdom.
posted by Bangaioh at 12:13 PM on February 7, 2016 [2 favorites]


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