GOMI
January 21, 2016 9:47 AM   Subscribe

 
If you want to take your blog metacommentary to the next level, r/blogsnark tends to have big picture discussions about GOMI as well as the bloggers that GOMI covers, and often points out when the GOMI coverage gets a little too "BEC". Neither of these are my proudest reads, but sometimes I just need to wallow in this kind of stuff.
posted by redsparkler at 10:04 AM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Asked about her motivations, she says: “I can’t speak for all the GOMI-ers and I realize there are some people who are a bit in that category of ‘let’s take this person down’, and ‘let’s take them down a peg, and show them’ – that’s not where I’m coming from at all. I’m just very much ‘Oh my gosh, did you see what they posted? How crazy is that?’ and then talk about it.”
...
“It’s like the new way to get together with your neighbor for coffee to talk about your other neighbor you both hate,” she says. “I am most interested in the blogging and vlogging people, because to me, I think they are the reality stars of the 21st century. They are putting their whole lives out there for public consumption, very much like Bravo reality show stars.”
Except when you talk shit with your neighbor about that other neighbor you hate, you generally don't shout at that awful neighbor "you don't deserve to have any children and your husband hates you!" Because it's hard to be that shitty in person.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:07 AM on January 21, 2016 [21 favorites]


I guess I really don't get out and around the Internet much because this is the first I've heard of GOMI. I understand why for some folks it may be cathartic to snark on the lifestyle/mommyblogs etc but it really does sound like being unpleasant for the sake of knowing you can be and others have your back. I also must say it makes me scared about attempting any of my own female-oriented online endeavours if this is what might be waiting for me if it gains any sort of traction.
posted by Kitteh at 10:11 AM on January 21, 2016 [13 favorites]


Previously
posted by Mchelly at 10:11 AM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


“It’s like the new way to get together with your neighbor for coffee to talk about your other neighbor you both hate,” she says.

People . . . do this? Yikes.
posted by chainsofreedom at 10:17 AM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


And to be fair, everything I've heard about Jenna Anderson (That Wife) shows a remarkable lack of good judgement from somebody posting about her life on the internet.

For Jenna Andersen, the low was getting an email from a stranger who said they’d reported her to Child Protective Services for letting her baby sleep in the bathroom because it was quiet.

To clarify, this wasn't just a one time thing. They actually used the bathroom as his bedroom for at least the first couple years of his life, since their offices were in the spare bedroom.
posted by redsparkler at 10:18 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Every once in a while I'll become aware of GOMI again, usually when they've started viciously attacking some blogger or another and the whole fracas goes viral or becomes a trending topic on facebook or whatever, and it just makes me want to get off the internet forever. There's a pretty significant difference between snarking privately over someone's blog post and actually trying to fuck up the life of the person who made that blog post because you don't like them, and I honestly wonder about the character of GOMI founder Alice Wright. What kind of person do you have to be to make your living that way?
posted by palomar at 10:18 AM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


I understand why for some folks it may be cathartic to snark on the lifestyle/mommyblogs etc but it really does sound like being unpleasant for the sake of knowing you can be and others have your back.

I agree with the catharsis of snark, but this is not snark, this is, as identified in your pullquote, a hate blog. And it's big enough that there's a virtual angry mob you can join, so you're not shouting at internet strangers alone.

I also must say it makes me scared about attempting any of my own female-oriented online endeavours if this is what might be waiting for me if it gains any sort of traction.

This is the worst part - it's not snark, and it's definitely not criticism, it's just hate towards a specific field of blogs. The internet is nigh infinitely large, make your own thing, don't shit upon others.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:19 AM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


To clarify, this wasn't just a one time thing. They actually used the bathroom as his bedroom for at least the first couple years of his life, since their offices were in the spare bedroom.

Can you point to the part of that that justifies involving child protective services, from a distance of several hundred miles away?
posted by palomar at 10:19 AM on January 21, 2016 [21 favorites]


it just makes me want to get off the internet forever

Don't give these people the satisfaction of achieving their stated aim. Get them off your internet instead.

Adblock Plus: it's not just good against advertising.
posted by flabdablet at 10:21 AM on January 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


I recently became kinda obsessed with a new hobby. In researching something very specific about a project, followed a link onto GOMI not knowing what it was. Then I read page after page of people slamming the site I loved. Totally took the wind out of my sails. I went from really loving the source of the project to -- well, not. I just can't see it in the same way anymore. Because the GOMI attack on the project site felt like a personal attack - like what kind of idiot am I for being a "fangirl."

Just so much ick. That kind of thing makes my stomach hurt. I hate people.
posted by slipthought at 10:27 AM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


It's like a bad combination of "man, ya'll need a hobby" and Atwater's southern strategy..
posted by k5.user at 10:28 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can you point to the part of that that justifies involving child protective services, from a distance of several hundred miles away?

Nope! But I felt that the language used in the article underplayed the event; That Wife has had a few questionable parenting situations come up over time. That's no excuse for meanness, but I'm not surprised that somebody felt concerned.
posted by redsparkler at 10:30 AM on January 21, 2016


Heather Armstrong invited Alice Wright out for coffee recently. Alice declined.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 10:33 AM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Exactly what business is it of anybody which room a baby sleeps in? Why should they be "concerned"?
posted by tavella at 10:34 AM on January 21, 2016 [15 favorites]


Don't give these people the satisfaction of achieving their stated aim.

Well, since I'm not one of the mommy bloggers they go after, I'm not part of their stated aim. I'm just a person who doesn't really see why spewing that much vitriol about strangers is a fun way to spend time. And I really hate that we live in a world where the solution to seeing a group of people spewing senseless hate is just to close my eyes to it and pretend it's not happening.

That Wife has had a few questionable parenting situations come up over time. That's no excuse for meanness, but I'm not surprised that somebody felt concerned.

Oh, really? What kind of questionable parenting situations? Has the child been in physical danger? Do they not feed him? Change him? Bathe him? Do they leave him unattended in unsafe locations? Or is it more like, sometimes he's up until late because he just won't go to sleep, or he was photographed playing with blind cords during a diaper change? I mean, emailing someone and telling them that you've contacted a government agency with the specific intent of having their child taken away from them... that's a little bit beyond "meanness" in my eyes when the level of concern is "I saw in this lady's blog post that her infant sleeps in a bathroom".
posted by palomar at 10:35 AM on January 21, 2016 [18 favorites]


I don't think we really should be directing traffic to this site. I know it's a guardian article, not the site itself linked but still.
posted by typecloud at 10:37 AM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm sort of surprised that the person who runs this site is a woman. I'd always assumed it was a guy.

On the other hand, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, since all the worst bullying behavior I've personally experienced (both in person and online) has come from other women.
posted by anastasiav at 10:44 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


That Wife has had a few questionable parenting situations come up over time.

Such as? Near as I can see, little dude looks happy, healthy, and well-loved.

Jesus fuck, people. Every time you sic CPS on someone because you're a Nosy Nellie with "concerns" about nonsense (like a child sleeping in a clean spare bathroom because it's quiet and dark), you're taking those resources away from children who ACTUALLY are being abused or neglected.

CPS is not your personal goon squad to use against parents who are merely not conforming to your notions of parenting. Call them for the kid being beaten with a chain, not the kid happily crashed out in a dark, quiet room.
posted by MissySedai at 10:46 AM on January 21, 2016 [49 favorites]


Funny. Gomi means trash in Japanese.
posted by Splunge at 10:51 AM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


I've been linked to GOMI a few times before and I always have the same repulsed reaction to it.

It reminds me so much of highschool the social cliques that you were either a part of or were not but amplified because people on the internet on these kinds of sites are horrible. Some blogs, I won't name which, have threads that are mostly heaped in praise because they do "the right things" whereas others are torn down time and time and time again.

I read through for some of the blogs I followed and while they weren't necessarily vicious I found the whole thing really distasteful.
posted by Neronomius at 10:52 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


If putting my child in a bathroom would have gotten him to go to sleep as an infant, I would happily have hauled his crib in there myself.

There doesn't seem to be any redeeming features to this site.
posted by emjaybee at 10:53 AM on January 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


There have been snark sites for years and years now. (Remember Trainwrecks.net? Or TWOPSucks?)

The old-school Trainwrecks and TWOPSucks seem positively toothless compared to GOMI; we've gotten the Gamergate-era snark site now. But snark sites do tend to flame out after a while; all that vitriol is exhausting and it's no basis for a rewarding relationship with other people.
posted by sobell at 10:59 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I am all for pointing out that most lifestyle bloggers are full of shit and creates unreasonable expectations that end up making a lot of people feel really bad about themselves. I'm all for pointing and laughing at images of toddlers who are always neat and clean and beautifully dressed, and at people who pretend they live in showhomes.

But once you start picking apart someone's every little thing, you're creating exactly the same type of expectation. That there's no such thing as a small mistake or a good enough. Everything has to be picture perfect, according to whatever you think that is. (I really don't see the problem with putting a child's crib in a second bathroom.)

And good grief, yes the CPS thing. Calling the authorities about someone's parenting choices is a nuclear option. That sort of thing can get completely out of control, into situations that are right up there in the top five, probably, of worst things you can do to a family.

Sometimes, it needs to be done, sure, but it's not just some casual threat to toss out at someone whose choices you disagree with.
posted by ernielundquist at 11:13 AM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


This site seems like a GIANT waste of time.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:16 AM on January 21, 2016


The CPS thing isn't cool but otherwise I don't see that much different than the kind of snark people use here. It's odd to have a SITE dedicated to it but there's a lot of out of context dislike for people who write things on internets here and elsewhere. It's not the best in our nature but it's something people just, like, do.

I see that this site has an xoJane section, which I didn't look into but I probably would agree with a lot of what's written there.
posted by sweetkid at 11:17 AM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Metafilter: This site seems like a GIANT waste of time.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:24 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm not surprised that somebody felt concerned.

Well, except that literally nobody thinks anyone involved was legitimately concerned about the welfare of the baby sleeping in the bathroom. That was no more and no less than a penny ante version of swatting.
posted by Naberius at 11:25 AM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


I think it hinges on the difference between celebrities and non-celebrities and the way that the internet blurs the distinction between the two. I don't really feel bad about sites that snark about people who are making millions and millions of dollars a year off of their public personas, but random bloggers feel more like ordinary people who didn't really sign on for that.

But I'm not sure that I can morally justify that distinction. All I know is that I've seen really mean things on GOMI about bloggers who seem like normal, flawed human beings, and it makes me a little sad.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:27 AM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wish there was a site that did the things that GOMI does without the cruelty of the commenters. As it is, I basically limit myself to the front page posts and don't read the comments or forums anymore. Still, I would rather read somebody else's discussion about multiple blogs than follow the blogs myself.
posted by redsparkler at 11:32 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


but I'm not surprised that somebody felt concerned.

"Concern" was only half the applicable term.
posted by Etrigan at 11:34 AM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


So I'll come out as someone who is rather fond of GOMI. I obviously I can't vouch for every post/poster on there and I've definitely seen some go too far but I feel like the criticism in general is aimed at bloggers putting themselves out there as arbiters of the way women (and others) should parent, dress, eat and lives their lives. The blogs themselves are usually forbidden zone for any kind of critical thinking so GOMI becomes the place to push back. And yeah you can say "if you don't like it, don't read it" but prescriptive lifestyle blogs are a cultural force of vacuousness from which there is no escape. I see it as a place where women can have honest opinions without the tyranny of forced positivity that rules every other aspect of our lives.

That said, I spend most of my time on the GOMI "Members Only Forums", which is probably one of the more intelligent, civilized and supportive communities on the internet, Metafilter included. I find it's the perfect place to take my chatfilter.
posted by Jess the Mess at 11:34 AM on January 21, 2016 [19 favorites]


Previously.

Of course the article featured the absolute worst of GOMI, and found the loudest bloggers to give their side. Most of GOMI is snarking at incomprehensible Sponsored Posts, parentbloggers who post full-frontals of their kids on public Instagram, and fashion/design bloggers who all wear the same "courtesy of" outfits. The snark there is on par with the snark I see on MetaFilter every day. And the GOMI member only forums are one of the best communities I've been a part of since MetaFilter.

Some bloggers have made good money putting their lives and their kids' lives on the internet. Sponsorships with Disney, Alamo, West Elm, Target, etc. All successful writers have critics. Why should popular bloggers -- some of whom have gone on national talk and news shows as *experts* for goodness' sake -- be above criticism? Why is bagging on Guy Fieri or Kris Jenner different from bagging on a woman who blogs (and gets a book deal from) the 300 sandwiches it took to get her boyfriend to propose?

Now, I am NOT saying harassment is cool, or that CPS calls about sleeping arrangements were justified. And Alice absolutely, positively does NOT want GOMI people trying to contact or sabotage bloggers. It's in the comment policy and she will delete comments and ban people who don't adhere. Some of the crap posted on there is downright cruel, the community itself comes down hard on those commenters.
posted by kimberussell at 11:37 AM on January 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


But the thing about the carefully curated blogger life is that we all know it's fake. How many reposted blog posts or thinky op-ed pieces from traditional media do you see per month on your Facebook feed about remembering that everything we see on social media is chosen in order to portray a specific image? I mean... it's not in any way revolutionary, this conversation. It's 2016, mommy blogs and lifestyle blogs have been around for maybe a decade at this point, which means we've been having the "omg it's all so fake how very dare someone show me such a fake life on the internet where everything must be 100% real at all times" conversation for that same time frame minus like six months or so.
posted by palomar at 11:39 AM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


I left a comment on that article (diff screen name tho). I don't go on the blogs that are most hateread there, so the tone may well be different on those threads, but I do follow a few specific threads. Oddly enough, one of those is based on criticising Vogue Patterns - given how saccharine the craft/diy blogging community can be, it is really refreshing to have a space where you can discuss things like monetisation, poor drafting, bandwagons and sponsored posts. Another are users' experiences being targeted by MLM schemes, which is an odd fascination of mine.

I don't know who ThatWife is mind. I don't read the Healthy Living forum because those blogs aren't for me, but on threads I have been on, stuff like bodysnarking is smacked down fast - something you don't see on non-internet sleb sited like ONTD. If you do want to see a vile cyberbullying snark forum, look at the ForeverKailyn section of GuruGossiper - or indeed any if GG.

I once had the police called to my house after an internet stranger in another country thought I was a danger to myself. So yeah, the CPS thing is odd, but perhaps from a place of genuine concern? Like I said, I don't follow the blog so I don't know if it was some kind of mommyblogger swatting.
posted by mippy at 11:42 AM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is a thing we don't need any more of on the internet, or anywhere else.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:44 AM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


And yes, the MembersOnly forum is quite chatfilter. As are some of the general threads in other sub-forums - when I wanted to find something particular for my hobby, I posted on the craft blogger forum and got really good advice.

To add to what kimberrussell said, I think I found the site via XOJane. Am in a phone so can't link, but I found that site via a Metafilter post on the woman who used Plan B as contraception. As the site became more exploitative of young women with difficult stories to tell, posting articles that were potentially damaging to have linked to your name in the posterity of the internet for the sake of the pageviews it would get when the commenters tore it apart, I was glad to find a thread full of people sharing my frustrations.
posted by mippy at 11:50 AM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I feel like the criticism in general is aimed at bloggers putting themselves out there as arbiters of the way women (and others) should parent, dress, eat and lives their lives

Not so much? For instance, the GOMI forum posters really hate Sal from Already Pretty, who is a nice-seeming lady who posts a lot about body positivity, sustainably sourced clothing, and other harmless things. They don't like her hair or her style, so they think it's okay to be beastly about her. It's like kicking a kitten. You might be right that the kitten has unflattering hair, but you're still the jerk who kicks kittens.
posted by Squeak Attack at 12:12 PM on January 21, 2016 [20 favorites]


Right. I hear from 8-chan members that it's really just a chatty support and hobby site as well.
posted by happyroach at 12:13 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I found the site in looking for more information about two particular mommybloggers, in two very different situations. One of them had claimed that her toddler son got threatened by a redneck at Wal-Mart for wearing a bow in his hair (which appears to have been fabricated from whole cloth). The other attempted to kill her autistic daughter.

So, if you want information about horrible things that women on the internet are doing, you can certainly find a lot of it at GOMI. But perhaps you (by which I mean I) should just get up and stretch your legs. Pet a dog, maybe.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:16 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Just went over to the GOMI forums and looked up a dad-blogger who writes about his experiences as an advocate for his disabled kid... wow. They sure love to insinuate that parents don't love their children over there, don't they. I mean, it's a pretty dim and addled mind that reads a blog post by a dad of a disabled kid talking about how hard it is sometimes to reconcile that kid's real life future with the future he'd imagined for them before they were born, and spins that into "omg obviously this father cannot accept who his child really is, how awful for that child to be so unloved and unwanted". Come the fuck on.
posted by palomar at 12:21 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


I used to frequent (to read, never to post) GOMI. Then came the message board insinuations that a blogger and her husband were faking his cancer diagnosis and treatment, during which Alice made a post about it. The blogger showed up on the message boards to defend her family, but was shot down by the majority of posters. Eventually, the Warrior Eli hoax investigating person made a post on her own blog -- that this was not at all a hoax.

The pettiness and mean-spiritedness of the whole thing on GOMI, especially in light of such a terrible situation, made me reassess what the hell I was doing giving this place traffic.
posted by Miss Scarlet with the Candlestick in the Lounge at 12:32 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


mippy: I don't read the Healthy Living forum because those blogs aren't for me, but on threads I have been on, stuff like bodysnarking is smacked down fast

Have you seen the threads for Cecily Kellogg/Uppercase Woman? They Photoshop her face onto Grimace -- the large-bottomed purple critter of McD's. Bodysnarking tolerance must vary by thread.
posted by Miss Scarlet with the Candlestick in the Lounge at 12:45 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd never heard of the That Wife person but they hate her at the GOMI thing and the reddit thing and what hole is this I fell in
posted by sweetkid at 12:53 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Not so much? For instance, the GOMI forum posters really hate Sal from Already Pretty, who is a nice-seeming lady who posts a lot about body positivity, sustainably sourced clothing, and other harmless things. They don't like her hair or her style, so they think it's okay to be beastly about her. It's like kicking a kitten. You might be right that the kitten has unflattering hair, but you're still the jerk who kicks kittens.

What is to hate Sal for? She lives a very ordinary middle class South Minneapolis life with what is obviously a very ordinary though stable income, she doesn't do all the things that people tend to assume are hateful (artfully photoshopped photos of your kale, etc), she doesn't actually harvest a lot of freebies and she's worked hard to recruit recurring guest posters of color, trans guest posters, posters with different body types, posters who write about age and class, etc etc. I've actually read her blog intermittently for years even though we're quite, quite different in terms of fashion, lifestyle, etc, because I enjoy the S.MPLSness of it.

This makes me skeptical that this GOMI blog is as innocent as is claimed, because I think the worst Sal is ever guilty of is perhaps overusing the word "badass". But who among us doesn't have a similar language tic?
posted by Frowner at 1:03 PM on January 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


If you do want to see a vile cyberbullying snark forum, look at the ForeverKailyn section of GuruGossiper - or indeed any if GG.

I stumbled onto a thread there about Temptalia once, and dear god. It's got to be hell to be that kind of person.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 1:09 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


They're talking about the Guardian article over at r/blogsnark, and a fair number of people seem pretty mystified at the notion that children are off-limits for snark at GOMI and the stark contrast between the way Alice Wright presented herself to the journalist vs. how she is on the site. Most common opinion is that little to no research was done for the article.

digging through r/blogsnark is a massive bummer, btw. I'm going back to the Best of Tumblr account on Facebook, at least there I get puppy pix.
posted by palomar at 1:12 PM on January 21, 2016


I fell down a GOMI rabbit hole for a week or so, after it being mentioned here on the Blue (or perhaps the Green), actually. I initially got excited because I do like me some online discussion forums. But, wow, I have never read so much nastiness in my life. Over what? A vapid lifestyle blog? This is what you choose to spend your time doing? Gross.
posted by medeine at 1:21 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think I first encountered GOMI while accidentally following links in the wake of the Sundry implosion. It was fun for about...I don't know, five, ten minutes? And then I started to feel gross. And then just now, reading palomar's comment, I did what I assume is the same search for that blogger and...wow. If they have an anti-bodysnarking policy, somebody needs to spread the word. Also lots of Internet Diagnoses of Munchausen-by-Proxy. No bueno.
posted by PussKillian at 1:26 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


"bloggers putting themselves out there as arbiters of the way women (and others) should parent, dress, eat and lives their lives"

So it's better for snarky commenters to put themselves out there as arbiters instead?
posted by kevinbelt at 2:04 PM on January 21, 2016


Great, now I've fallen down the rabbit hole of r/blogsnark, mostly because I found a post by someone asking why That Wife (Jenna in the Guardian article, the blogger whose infant son slept in a bathroom) is so hated... and not surprisingly, most people's beef with her is that she "hates" her children. How can you tell she hates her children? Well, apparently, you can tell because she sometimes posts about how hard it is to have kids. Ties right into that recent FPP on maternal ambivalence -- women aren't allowed to talk about their children in any terms but glowing adoration, to acknowledge that parenting is hard and that many parents enjoy time away from their children is to be a horrible, evil monster in the eyes of the mommy blogger hater. That Wife also has paid help and at least one of her kids attends preschool and oh god does that make her haters insane with rage, because in their eyes, if you're a mom and you're not doing everything all by yourself with absolutely zero help then you're "outsourcing" your family duties and should basically be put up against a wall and shot.

I wonder how many other mommy/lifestyle bloggers are treated like That Wife because they're perceived as not performing their societal role properly by the people who are hate-reading them.
posted by palomar at 2:07 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


I guess it' like Reddit - some subs are interesting discussion, some are just pointlessly vile. I have to admit I have liked coming across threads about bloggers who entirely irritated me - Single Dad Laughing, for example, whose Chicken Soup For The Soul writing style made me feel stabby.
posted by mippy at 2:07 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


"bloggers putting themselves out there as arbiters of the way women (and others) should parent, dress, eat and lives their lives"

So it's better for snarky commenters to put themselves out there as arbiters instead?


An aspirational lifestyle blogger telling everyone pineapples are the thing to wear this season is way different from someone stating that they think wearing pineapples looks stupid in an online conversation. Both are actually a-okay but the former can't demand that the latter not happen.

Now criticizing someone for something they aren't positioning themselves as an expert on or have no control over all together is another thing entirely.
posted by Jess the Mess at 2:20 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


How gendered is much of this criticism? Like, god forbid a woman on the internet "position herself as an expert" on something. We better smack her down before her head gets too big.
posted by Squeak Attack at 2:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


"the former can't demand that the latter not happen"

But the latter could just decide that the former is really pretty insignificant and not care, right? I don't know. I mean, I get critical commenting (obviously; that's what I'm doing now). But... doesn't it get boring after a while? Aren't there better ways to spend time?
posted by kevinbelt at 2:34 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I mean, it's a blog where people Meow instead of post. That is kind of hilariously stupid. I feel like most of them are fairly harmless and also a little obsessed.
posted by sweetkid at 2:36 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't know...it's fun to have opinions and discuss them with likeminded others. Isn't that what people come to Metafilter to do?

Are there better things we could be doing. Sure. There almost always are!
posted by Jess the Mess at 2:37 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't know...it's fun to have opinions and discuss them with likeminded others. Isn't that what people come to Metafilter to do?
I think that, for me, likeminded others will typically not be people whose most-common opinions are "that woman doesn't look the way I think women should look" or "that woman is a terrible mother." YMMV.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:40 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


To be fair we have a lot of "Terrible parents" opinions on MeFi.
posted by sweetkid at 2:43 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


I loved this:
Lyon says she visits the site daily but comments infrequently. “Some bloggers are so incredibly narcissistic,” she says. “I think there are a lot of people who saw bloggers making money, who thought, ‘Oh, this is a really easy thing I can do,’ and just went with it, without any real thought to what the repercussions would be for their families and their children and their futures, instead of really thinking about the damage that sort of public scrutiny could do.”
"Don't these people know they're exposing themselves and their families to assholes like me?!"
posted by Sangermaine at 2:43 PM on January 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


Speaking as someone who once enjoyed Already Pretty, I can say that SOME of the criticism Sally has gotten on GOMI is understandable. Though she positions herself as a style expert, she frequently offers questionable advice about fit and figure flattery, and wears some clothes that don't fit her well, are not well taken care of, or are cheaply made. She also seems to have a weird relationship with shopping. (I don't want to call it an addiction, since I'm not a mental health professional.) GOMI has crossed a line with their criticism of her (saying, for example, that she's having anxiety about her sexual identity and/or orientation), but there's room for criticism and skepticism of her work.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:03 PM on January 21, 2016


I don't know...it's fun to have opinions and discuss them with likeminded others. Isn't that what people come to Metafilter to do?

When I come here for a discussion, it's generally a discussion centered around an article someone wrote or an idea that's been examined. It's not to bash specific people day after day while using the argument " what did they expect," having the nerve to want to create something, put it out on the public marketplace of ideas, and maybe get compensated for their time and effort! The brazen gall!

I think that's what I find off-putting about GOMI in general. The "if they didn't want to be insulted online, they shouldn't have put anything out there!" rhetoric is too close to "if that bitch didn't want to get raped, what was she doing out at that hour?" for my liking.
posted by sobell at 5:10 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Though she positions herself as a style expert

That's really close to the phrasing Jess the Mess has used in this topic. That's . . . a little strange.

she frequently offers questionable advice about fit and figure flattery, and wears some clothes that don't fit her well, are not well taken care of, or are cheaply made.

Meh, opinions. It's a logical trap. GOMI decides as a group that they don't like someone's content, then use that to justify sneering about how the bloggers is only masquerading as an expert, then gets really concern troll-y about other adults possibly reading the supposedly bad advice.
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:34 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


Who's Jess the Mess?
posted by pxe2000 at 5:51 PM on January 21, 2016


GOMI decides as a group that they don't like someone's content, then use that to justify sneering

It's the "bitches eating crackers" thing that redsparkler mentioned in the first comment.
posted by palomar at 5:53 PM on January 21, 2016


Because the GOMI attack on the project site felt like a personal attack - like what kind of idiot am I for being a "fangirl."

I've been to that emotional place a lot. There are a lot of corners of the Internet devoted to asking what kind of an idiot would like this thing, and it's hard not to take it personally when you happen to like it.
posted by thesmallmachine at 5:58 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


pxe2000, another Metafilter poster in this topic. Control-F.
posted by Squeak Attack at 6:00 PM on January 21, 2016


(I think we Americans have a big thing about the Con. The highest compliment is that you're wise to the Con, whatever it happens to be today; the worst insult is that you're a sucker. It's an attitude that's caused a lot of anxiety and humiliation.)
posted by thesmallmachine at 6:01 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Well, I wish there was a chewable tablet that people could nibble that would give the same bitter pleasure to be had from tearing people down, without actually requiring that any people be verbally torn and trampled.
posted by puddledork at 6:03 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


"“They left a bad taste in my mouth because they were pimping their children out on social media for likes and page clicks, which brings in sponsors and brings in money, and it is a vicious cycle,” Lyon says. “I find it really offensive, these are children … it takes out any semblance of autonomy or privacy these kids have. And I find that really distasteful.”
. . . .
“It is pretty damn fun sometimes to make fun of these idiots. Sometimes they are just so dumb in the things they do you can’t help but to laugh,” she says."

That was the quickest descent from the moral high ground that I've ever witnessed.

Between GOMI and Camilla Long from the grief policing thread, I'm amazed that people can decide to channel so much energy into crapping all over other people just . . . because. Like, there is no legitimate reason they need to be so horrible. There are several steps between minor annoyance and "FUCK YOU" that they might want to explore.
posted by bibliowench at 6:58 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I actually found GOMI because someone recommended Already Pretty in an answer on the green, and I subscribed to the blog for a while. After reading it for a few weeks I had one of those "am I crazy or is this a really terrible blog" moments, found GOMI and discovered that indeed I was not the only one to think that... by a longshot. But after reading a few pages it gets pretty repetitive, OK, the clothes are no good, it's not just me, cool.

The really salient criticism of Sally I think is not about her personal style but about the body positivity stuff she posts. I know I've come away from some of her posts feeling more self-conscious about my body, not less, because of the way she fixates on certain insecurities under the guise of building women back up. She'll post stuff like "I know you're probably worried about the length of your neck, but stop! You're beautiful!" and my reaction is, I wasn't thinking about my neck until I read this, but now I am! Or when she recommends standing naked in front of a full-length mirror and scrutinizing your body:
Which bits are markedly large, small, or relatively out of proportion? Do you have a prominent stomach, long neck, tiny feet? Do your arms seem short, your shoulders broad, your breasts small? Does your torso seem much longer than your legs, or vice versa? Look at everything, not just the major areas like hips, midsection, and bust. Examine your wrists and ankles, leg and arm length, calf circumference. Try not to judge yourself ...
I don't think she has any kind of education or training in social work/body dysmorphia/eating disorders/etc. so I do think there's an argument that it's pretty irresponsible to put stuff like this out to a vulnerable audience. And yeah, I don't read her any more, so maybe this is concern trolling, but people asked what there is to criticize her for and this is what I find kind of insidious about her blog, long after I got over the fashion stuff.

GOMI certainly can be pretty nasty, and (to snark on the snarker) I don't find Alice clever or funny in the slightest. I don't go there much any more and when I do I try to avoid the threads about individual bloggers, but the "worst fashion blogging photos" thread is my guilty pleasure. I don't know who any of the bloggers are and so when I see the picture it's not anything personal, it's just about the fact that the blogger is posing on top of a landfill or wearing a low-cut cardigan with just a bra underneath or looks like she's levitating due to an unfortunate camera angle. It's really about how silly fashion blogging can be in general, not any one person in particular.
posted by mama casserole at 7:42 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


The criticism of AP isn't just because people don't like her style - she does style consultations for a living. She blogs full-time, appears on TV as a 'style expert', and charges for wardrobe consultations.
posted by mippy at 10:18 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Here's a wild idea. Is it possible that fashion and personal style are actually subjective, not objective? And maybe people who like Sal's blog should read it and pay her to be on tv and consult for them? And people who don't like her blog should not?
posted by hydropsyche at 2:56 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Good point well made.

I think it's a similar idea to Regretsy - that started snarking not on terrible crafts, but on terrible crafts that people expected others to pay money for. (That's why I've never got on board with CraftFail - god knows I can't get a seam straight.) Then it widened its sights to people pretending to be artisans but working with a factory, 'vintage' items that are actually mass-produced in China, and tragi-crafters making a buck off of disasters and celebrity deaths. I like GOMI - some of it - for the same reasons. (Not specific to Sal's blog, I should say - she always seemed like a nice lady and I liked her coloured tights.) Once you start charging money for something - or getting sponsorship and c/o - it becomes a different thing.

My friend used to be a beauty blogger, and we have talked about this a lot. I liked it when beauty blogs started out, as they were essentially reviews and writing about products without an advertiser's coin influencing what was written. This has changed a LOT over the years. Temptalia is the exception. I want to read about whether the entirely superfluous thing I'm going to spend my money on is any good, not see pictures of your last press trip.
posted by mippy at 4:41 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Speaking as someone who once enjoyed Already Pretty, I can say that SOME of the criticism Sally has gotten on GOMI is understandable. Though she positions herself as a style expert, she frequently offers questionable advice about fit and figure flattery, and wears some clothes that don't fit her well, are not well taken care of, or are cheaply made.

But this kind of thing is slightly more subjective than it appears - there are several fashion bloggers who literally are "style experts" in that they have taken some trainings or have a relevant degree, and I look at their stuff and think "my god, that's hideous, why on earth would you wear that" or "why would you spend your money on that shoddy-looking bag" or " that's 'flattering' for some value of flattering with which I do not concur".

And then there's a favorite blogger of mine, the Male Pattern Boldness guy, whose style and fit choices sometimes seem Not At All What I'd Do And Oh Why, and yet he makes part of his income sewing custom clothes, has taken classes at FIT, etc. (And I want to clarify - his blog is wonderful, he seems charming and genuinely kind, I always enjoy seeing what he sews, and he seems to maintain a very pleasant commenting community.)

(To tell the truth, my favorite fashions tend to appear on blogs run by awful, awful men who aspire to be commodities brokers or insider traders or start-up gazillionaires and who seem to have genuinely bad values; my favorite fashion bloggers tend to wear stuff I don't like at all.)

In re "expertise" and fashion blogging: First, what exactly is the "expertise" required? It seems like most style/fashion programs are either very history-dense (and tend to generate history-dense blogs, another great love but not so much about the What I Wore) or very technical a la FIT or else...a little sketchy, maybe? Like, in the sense that they seem to teach very dubious/subjective ideas about beauty and style. I'm not convinced that being an "expert" really indicates expertise.

And then, to me there's the gatekeeping aspect - lots of people whose fashion blogging I want to read simply aren't going to have access to any formal expertise, because they're broke, have too many other responsibilities, literally don't live anywhere where they have access, etc. Or there simply may be no relevant "expertise" - like, where is the plus size middle aged lady going to go for "expertise" in her issues? She's already in an oppositional situation because plus sized middle aged women are supposed to shroud themselves in sub fusc sacks and keep their mouths shut (and I think Sally is also in a bit of an oppositional situation.)

Honestly, the quote about looking very carefully at your body so as to catalogue all its "flaws" etc seems pretty messed up to me, and I hope that commenters pushed back on that. I don't feel like that's in line with what she usually writes currently, but maybe I'm mistaken.

But then, okay, so she wrote (or maybe recurringly writes) some dumb stuff. She's also one of very few older-than-twentyish cis fashion bloggers to really try to include trans women both as writers and in her audience. She does her best to write in a trans-inclusive fashion, and I like how the posts by trans women are so much in line with the fashion on the rest of the blog. (I feel like I see a lot of tumblrs with really great queer and independent trans fashion, where people are really working to challenge fashion norms, and as a fashion weirdo I enjoy those; but I also like how the posters on Sally's blog are doing what all the other posters do, seeking out fashionable, creative but more everyday styles.)

So I feel like singling her out for hate (and for homophobic insults, apparently?) is not that great - I don't think I'd be super into it anyway but I feel like she's someone who maybe isn't as good on body stuff as some other bloggers but who is better t han a lot of cis bloggers on trans stuff, and that sort of averages out to.....at least fairly good?

(Also, what is up with homophobia in the fashion blogosphere? I have had to drop several blogs because they were hateful to gay men, and the whole "you have short hair and started wearing pants [or whatever] therefore you must not be admitting to yourself that you are LOL QUESTIONING YOUR SEXUAL IDENTITY" stuff that folks are describing - that is homophobic, because it assumes that queer people are defined by, like, our hair. And no one is ever saying "hey, maybe she is really a lesbian, wouldn't that be awesome?" It's always positioned as a gotcha.
posted by Frowner at 6:01 AM on January 22, 2016 [10 favorites]


I've spent way too much time thinking about this but...really the rise of GOMI sits at the intersection of time when blogs were moving from women authentically putting their experiences online to "monetization" -- in quotes because so many bloggers effectively sell their editorial for swag, not cash, and for companies that are then able to get basically advertising for the cost of PR this has been a huge boon.

Having worked in women's magazines, where there are equal pressures at higher dollar costs, and brands with good, solid ad/edit guidelines and reporting structures for swag to track editor bias, as well as brands that don't have them, I was saddened to see how cheaply many many bloggers are willing to give away their voice and their audience's time. Lots of blogs are the Tupperware parties and Avon ladies of the internet where there are a few rockstar earners (ironically, Heather Armstrong actually is the daughter of an Avon sales leader) and the rest get what used to be called pin money and a cupboard full of product and an influx of professionally crafted PR praise "we here at P&G moms admire your authentic voice..." Sure, women are at the party, put the pitch is coming and the cost of hors d'oeuvres has been run through a business model.

Also some of the parties, like BlogHer, were reportedly so bizarre, like downmarket Wolf of Wall Street with unicorn cake. And then you have the dramas like the Heather and Jon Armstrong smack down of Jenny Lawson who I happen to think is one of the bright shining lights in the whole thing.

And yet, really, why not? If that's what they want to do. But as that tide was washing in, disaffected audiences who wanted something other than a repeat of the rise of Woman's Day, got together to complain and then it degraded into microscopic bitching because really, the blogger-reader contract broke pretty fast. Because being authentic online for no pay is tiring. Even people who succeed tend to be the in thing for a fairly short 2-4 year cycle. Because doing the equivalent of a magazine is hard and unfun after a point, but also because brands burn through audiences and then move their dollars elsewhere. In a way it's the rock radio issue too, do you move with your audience and find new ads, or keep acquiring the young.

Also I suspect some GOMI loyalists are PR types venting anyway. I read it now and then but in small doses, like certain discussions here and elsewhere.

I find some of the characters fascinating -- especially the ones who have gone bankrupt because swag doesn't pay the mortgage -- but the villains to me aren't the bloggers as they are for GOMI readers, or the GOMI commenters, it's the acquisition of editorial generally in a world where self-publishing is cheap enough to be almost free and the people largely benefitting from the creators' labour and the audience's eyeballs are the same old corporations.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:11 AM on January 22, 2016 [13 favorites]


Also, let me make it clear what these women are selling because if they had access to (and, I suppose, social supports for) the boys' club golf course stuff, we would recognize it better. It is delivering purchasing influence, not just through their actual editorial, but through their social media and networks. I, jeans company, need 300 people to line up in front of a store for a new collection, who when the local news picks it up won't talk about sweatshop labour, well I get this blogger to talk about it to her "friends" and lo, here come the local fashion lovers. But that blogger has cultivated those relationships over time, and often very, very strategically so that, like deals in big industry, they can call on or curry favors from their ilk to deliver results for a campaign (at least where results = spreadsheets depicting buzz). But instead of delivering contracts for snow plows and deals on packaging, their skills at building those networks are at a much lower capital (social, political, economic) end.

And again, why not, except the ghetto aspect of it -- and my own perception that it's a ghetto partly because then they also get to show up as free labour, sorry, engaged parents at school, etc. -- bugs the crap out of me. Also, no benefits, stability, policies, etc.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:31 AM on January 22, 2016


Very interesting analysis, warriorqueen.

From the standpoint of a non-PR GOMI loyalist, here's where I think the disconnect is: the bloggers being talked about aren't ordinary people with LiveJournals or personal blogs. They're people, usually in positions of great privilege (i.e. don't have to work for a living) who willingly turn their lives or some aspect of their lives into a brand for money. Of course, it's not a true picture of their lives but a sanitised, glamourized version designed to sell shit. Like warriorqueen suggest it's basically the 21st century version of women's magazines - and any woman with a brain can tell you how reading women's magazines can do a number on you. Like women's magazines, monetized lifestyle blogs invite and deserve criticism. Some of it is petty to be sure and people can be mean but people are mean as hell here too (and usually to fellow posters which is something you don't see as much of on GOMI). But overall, it's a good thing and a very feminist thing to analyze the crap we're being sold. Reducing it to women hating on women is dismissing it without bothering to see the whole picture because after all it's just women and they should play nicer with each other.
posted by Jess the Mess at 9:04 AM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


You like a problematic thing. That's okay. We all like problematic things. I still watch police procedurals, even while recognizing that they contribute to a glorification of cops and horrible cop culture in the middle of a national discussion of police violence. I turn them off when they get too bad. I stop watching shows once cops torture people. And I don't watch them around my spousal dude because they make him miserable. I recognize that they are problematic, I notice when they go over line, and I don't argue with people who find them too problematic to engage with.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:33 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


For me, personally, I'd just shrug at Sally if she were only posting pictures of herself in her outfits. Her style, particularly as she's gone in the badass/moto/asymmetrical direction, is not one I'm into. The fact that she's presenting herself as a stylist and body image expert, and the body issues she's espoused, go beyond a difference in aesthetic and into some potentially harmful areas.
posted by pxe2000 at 9:41 AM on January 22, 2016


Nobody's saying it isn't problematic - but many are saying it is entirely problematic, which I think is disingenuous.

I did follow a very popular lifestyle blog here, which had a team of paid staff and was the editor's full-time gig. She closed the site because, she said, it just wasn't fun anymore. I think this is happening with a lot of the earlier blogs - they don't want to be content generators.
posted by mippy at 9:54 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


"it's a good thing and a very feminist thing to analyze the crap we're being sold"

Absolutely agree. But is name-calling and involving CPS the best way to analyze that?
posted by kevinbelt at 11:42 AM on January 22, 2016


Of course not...but GOMI did not tell that person to call CPS and as for name calling, that happens just about everywhere. It's not like those kind of things are the raison d'etre de GOMI.
posted by Jess the Mess at 11:54 AM on January 22, 2016


It is funny to me that MetaFilter, usually so critical of the advertising industry and the shady practices of the corporate world, is so against criticism of fashion/lifestyle/mommy blogging/vlogging, which is essentially corporate advertising at its most manipulative. Add in the fact that these bloggers make their living selling unrealistic images and stoking insecurities in women and especially young girls, and it's even weirder that more MeFites aren't also on GOMI. While sometimes some people on GOMI are too judgmental for my taste, the vast majority of the "hate" I've seen there is directed towards unethical actions of bloggers and the lack of disclosure in a new and largely unregulated industry. Then there's the additional aspect of what some call jealousy or hating, i.e. expressing outrage that people with no education and no experience or expertise, not to mention sub-par writing and photography skills, are making more money in a year creating lazy and often offensive content than many skilled hard-working people could earn in decades. I have no problem with someone who trained and works her ass of as, say, a teacher, venting on a forum that she'd have to save for five years to afford the car or vacation that a blogger gets for free (plus a hefty paycheck) to write two ungrammatical sentences about the car/hotel brand and snap some pictures of her cute kids.

Why critique Sally of Already Pretty? For one, in her position as a "fashion expert," she promotes irresponsible--borderline unhealthy/addictive--levels of shopping. For another, she presents her style advice as the solution to an absurdly long list of obscure body insecurities she claims all women possess. And finally, she simply dresses very badly, and has no concept of style, fashion, fit, color, quality, or design. As an individual she has every right to dress and spend however she likes, of course, but she's not just some Midwestern housewife. She's making money and getting speaking and writing gigs by claiming she can help other women dress better. You might say who cares, it's just clothes, but women can be penalized in real-life ways if they show up to a job interview looking like they just scored a bag full of unflattering deals at the thrift shop in 1993. If a boutique owner or women's magazine editor told me I needed to buy multiple pairs of almost identical black boots, or to wear certain pants if I worry about having too-large labia (I wish I was making that up), or that sloppy leisure clothes were appropriate for work, I'd be pissed. If another type of professional, the owner of a fashion advice blog, told me the same thing, why should I be fine with it?

tl;dr: MetaFilter has a big blind spot with professional bloggers, it's hypocritical and weird.
posted by ocksay_uppetpay at 11:57 AM on January 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


As noted above, I personally rate spending hours of time griping about professional bloggers as right up there with spending hours of time watching police procedurals. So I guess I'm a big, hypocritical weirdo?
posted by hydropsyche at 1:13 PM on January 22, 2016


What's the hypocritical part? I'm pretty consistent in being suspicious of credentialism and gatekeeping on this site.

And I guess I'm not convinced that professional blogger is, in every case, a terrible, terrible poser career to have.
posted by Squeak Attack at 1:43 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's not like those kind of things are the raison d'etre de GOMI.

Yeah, except the creator of the site, in the linked article, literally said: “It’s like the new way to get together with your neighbor for coffee to talk about your other neighbor you both hate”.

I would totally want to join a site that analyzed and criticized the intersection of advertising and blogging. As a matter of fact, that is what most of the comments on this very thread are doing, calling out fashion bloggers for the problematic things that they have done. However, here on Metafilter and despite the large amount of snark we display, not one person has called a name or threatened CPS. If you could assure me that GOMI's discussion of these bloggers was 100% like the discussion here and 100% not calling anyone fat, stupid, etc., I'd be all about it.

I assume that isn't the case, since the very point of GOMI is to get together with your neighbor for coffee to talk about your other neighbor you both hate.
posted by chainsofreedom at 8:00 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, except the creator of the site, in the linked article, literally said: “It’s like the new way to get together with your neighbor for coffee to talk about your other neighbor you both hate”.

I would totally want to join a site that analyzed and criticized the intersection of advertising and blogging. As a matter of fact, that is what most of the comments on this very thread are doing, calling out fashion bloggers for the problematic things that they have done. However, here on Metafilter and despite the large amount of snark we display, not one person has called a name or threatened CPS. If you could assure me that GOMI's discussion of these bloggers was 100% like the discussion here and 100% not calling anyone fat, stupid, etc., I'd be all about it.


In the Metafilter thread linked by internet fraud detective squad above, you only have to go about four comments down before the namecalling starts. Why do you hang out here even you're so opposed to that behavior? As to the CPS thing - I have to admit I don't follow That Wife so I'm not apprised of the situation but maybe someone was truly worried that the kids were in danger. I mean if I saw someone blogging about putting their cat in the dryer or something, I'd call the local ASPCA on them.
posted by Jess the Mess at 9:47 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


They're people, usually in positions of great privilege (i.e. don't have to work for a living) who willingly turn their lives or some aspect of their lives into a brand for money.

Right, I think what they do is called "working for a living"?
posted by listen, lady at 4:14 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


for the record, actually yes That Wife was putting her child in danger, physical and emotional

There is literally no way for you to know that unless you are actually some kind of trained professional who has gone out to That Mom's house and done an evaluation.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:49 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


In the Metafilter thread linked by internet fraud detective squad above, you only have to go about four comments down before the namecalling starts.

Has mathowie ever said "MetaFilter is a great place to get together and call people names"?
posted by Etrigan at 5:50 AM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have to admit I don't follow That Wife so I'm not apprised of the situation but maybe someone was truly worried that the kids were in danger. I mean if I saw someone blogging about putting their cat in the dryer or something, I'd call the local ASPCA on them.

Right, if you were really concerned for the welfare of the cat, you would call the ASPCA. However, if you were concerned about tearing down your neighbor, you would threaten to call the ASPCA.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 6:28 AM on January 24, 2016


To be fair we have a lot of "Terrible parents" opinions on MeFi.

Remember that post about the dad who built a tree in his daughter's room? I wonder how many of the posters who spewed bitter, bitter hate in that thread, were Gomi members.


I get this whole not-judging-parents-ever thing, but I firmly believe that there's a point where you have to acknowledge that some parenting is simply not adequate.

So I take it you're saying it's actually all about, say, "ethics in childraising"?
posted by happyroach at 4:08 PM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


metafilter snarks people so hard

Honestly, it's a relief when my work DOESN'T show up on Metafilter; when it has, someone (or multiple people) has invariably trashed it. ("I don't get the point of this story" was a real charmer.) In fact, someone trashing something is pretty much . . . what happens 75% of the time here. Which is fine, in its way. GOMI's worse, but mostly by degrees.
posted by listen, lady at 5:20 PM on February 1, 2016


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