Wacky DC Superteams, GO!
January 21, 2016 12:18 PM   Subscribe

FILM! The new Suicide Squad trailer has the grimy cheer of a ball of cotton candy set on fire. Trailer breakdown. Roll call: Deadshot shoots people, Killer Croc's the crocodile who eats people, El Diablo burns people, Enchantress is possessed by a witch, and Harley Quinn is just crazy. Plus friends Boomerang, THE WALL, Slipknot, Rick Flag, the Joker, and Katana.

TV! Tonight is the series premiere of Legends of Tomorrow, the Arrowverse's time-traveling crossover crew. Roll call: White Canary, Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Hawkgirl & Hawkman, Firestorm, Atom, and TIME LORD RORY WILLIAMS Rip Hunter. Saving the world by punching the timestream and getting in bar fights!
posted by nicebookrack (144 comments total) 15 users marked this as a favorite
 
I am all over Legends of Tomorrow, I tell you what.

As I said in the earlier thread about Leto's Joker, I am not very excite about Suicide Squad. It looks like it's trying too hard to be anti-hero fun and comes off as more "lookit! we're edgy!".
posted by Kitteh at 12:19 PM on January 21, 2016


The new Suicide Squad trailer yt

Well, it's better than the last one.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:21 PM on January 21, 2016


Harley Quinn was not always a 15-year-old's Malkavian character from 1995, was she? Or am I getting old? Yes, I think that's it.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [26 favorites]


I just wanted to take this opportunity to say I love how Leonard Snart just always wears a parka, no matter the occasion.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [12 favorites]


These came across one of my media feeds the other day and I closed YT as soon as the poorly choreographically aligned music came in, thinking it was a fan vid.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 12:26 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


I just wanted to take this opportunity to say I love how Leonard Snart just always wears a parka, no matter the occasion.

it is always COLD in his heart
posted by Kitteh at 12:27 PM on January 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


I had to pause the trailer to confirm that yes, there actually is a guy with a giant eyeball for a head shooting a machinegun.

I dunno, it looks fun! I have zero expectations and hate Zack Snyder's shit (which this is set in that world?) but I might check it out.

David Ayer seems like he's directed some OK movies.

Harley Quinn was not always a 15-year-old's Malkavian character from 1995, was she? Or am I getting old? Yes, I think that's it.


Well, no, she started out in the animated series as a much more interesting character but her out-of-comics depictions since seem to have simplified her to "kooky bad girl".
posted by selfnoise at 12:27 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


I've been skeptical, but that was a really fun trailer. This is a movie that doesn't take itself very seriously. I might actually have a good time!
posted by naju at 12:28 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wow it would be ironic if Suicide Squad were the movie where DC finally decides superhero movies can be fun and don't have to be dark angsty serious business all the time.
posted by straight at 12:31 PM on January 21, 2016 [27 favorites]


Too old....can't finish trailer.
posted by bonobothegreat at 12:31 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]




I am a snob cinephile. Only films by directors like Nic Roeg, Stan Brakhage, Kenneth Anger, Lynch, and Zulawski will sit prominently displayed on my shelf.

BUT I CAN'T STOP UNAPOLOGETICALLY WATCHING THESE SUPERHERO SHOWS

They are so much fun. I know they're goofy. I don't care. Is there something wrong with me? Is the film nerd in me broken? Has the comic nerd in me taken over? Can I be both?

Don't tell anyone I told you this.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 12:33 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]




Yeah I just want to chime in that I was going to completely ignore the Suicide Squad trailer but naju convinced me to watch it, and it seems like someone at DC was taking notes when they watched Guardians of the Galaxy. That looks great.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:36 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Zulawski... They are so much fun. I know they're goofy. I don't care.

Ah I see what you did there.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:36 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Suicide Squad at least looks like it has some potential, though it does feel Guardians of the Galaxy inspired with the song in the trailer. But still, it could be entertaining and at least it has some color in the film, unlike DC's recent trend of desaturating the hell out of everything in its movies. SS will probably be good if they keep the Batman and Joker appearance in it to a minimum. 'Cause really, we've seen quite enough of those two.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:38 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


One of my spin instructors is a dead ringer for Brandon Routh and it is very distracting.
posted by Kitteh at 12:38 PM on January 21, 2016


Yeah, the new Suicide Squad trailer is definitely trying to ride the coattails of Guardians of the Galaxy. On the other end of the spectrum, Berlanti and company have been doing a bang-up job with Arrow and Flash (KING SHARK!), and if they can keep the whole "not giving a fuck about how ridiculous comic book characters on TV look and sound" thing going, I'm down.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:39 PM on January 21, 2016


Don't care for the Joker's chav look, but I love Leto's laugh.

Also, speaking of Guardians of the Galaxy and superhero movies and tone, here's a recent Brian Singer quote on whether the success of GotG means the X-Men will finally embrace its inherent comic bookiness or keep on trucking with the black leather and motorcycle pads:
“That tonally automatically sets you up for a farce. You’ve got a raccoon with a machine gun. You’ve got a guy that’s like ‘Nothing gets over my head!’ You have a tone of that movie that is a tone, once you’ve got that tone you can do all kinds of stuff like that… Here, this universe is taken quite seriously so yeah we have our fun, we have side jokes, and we take the edge of certain scenes to lighten them up a bit but we certainly, I can’t alter the tone of the movie because a movie like that is successful.”
I hope I live to see a real X-Men movie.
posted by entropicamericana at 12:40 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I was at least mildly on board with the Suicide Squad trailer until Leto!Joker showed up as the visual equivalent of a loud fart in the middle of the (hypothetical) theater. None too happy about the direction they chose for Harley....well, about the direction DC has taken her as a whole since 2011, really...but Margot Robbie seems to be doing as well as she can with that particular garbage.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:43 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


i still maintain that the only harley story i ever want to see is her and poison ivy kill joker and drive off together to adventures, jokes, and cuddling, but i was pleasantly surprised at how good this looks! it seems to have the right amount of sense of humor about itself. of course, the mcu movie i like the most is guardians of the galaxy.
posted by nadawi at 12:44 PM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


They released some Wonder Woman footage, too, right? How come I haven't seen anybody, anywhere, talking about the Wonder Woman footage? Are they just waiting until I leave?

I thought Wonder Woman was the single ray of light in the Batman Vs. Superman trailer, which has nothing in it otherwise that I want to see at all. But the standalone Wonder Woman stuff... if Wonder Woman can fly at super-speed, why is she on horseback? If she's a peer of Superman's in terms of strength, why is she dancing around using a shield and martial-arts moves on soldiers who can't possibly injure her in the slightest way no matter what they do?

One more or one fewer lackluster Superman movie isn't going to make a huge difference in the great scheme of things, but I really hope they don't louse up Wonder Woman.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:47 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


The trailer for Suicide Squad makes it look like the most tryhard garbage, and that Joker casting is almost as bad as Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. I've still got the man version of a ladyboner for Legends of Tomorrow, though. Leonard Snart <3
posted by Sternmeyer at 12:48 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


My biggest complaint about the Wonder Woman footage is I didn't see her invisible jet.
see what i did there?
posted by entropicamericana at 12:49 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Wow it would be ironic if Suicide Squad were the movie where DC finally decides superhero movies can be fun and don't have to be dark angsty serious business all the time.
posted by straight at 3:31 PM on January 21


As an unabashed fan of DC's "dark angsty" style (ever since Dark Knight Returns and the introduction of Vertigo line), I sure as shit hope not.

You want fun? Marvel's films are readily available for those looking for that. For my money, DC's "angst" is the bitter, black coffee that cleanses the palate after the tangy sweetness of Marvel. I like both, and both have their place.
posted by magstheaxe at 12:49 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


1970s Antihero: The fan reaction to Deadpool has been overwhelmingly positive, as it appears Fox got everything right .

At first I thought SS included Deadpool, but it's Deadshot, and I had to check again that Deadpool was Marvel, thanks to your comment.

Anyway, following this silly tangent, here's the Deadpool poster for comic geeks to show their significant others who don't like comics to convince them to see the movie on Valentines Day. (There was a good screenshot of someone tricking his wife into seeing Deadpool on Valentines Day thanks to that poster, but I can't find it at the moment.)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:49 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I am 110% on board already with LoT for going gung-ho full-on comic campy with enthusiasm and for being explicitly queer-friendly with the characters White Canary and Captain Cold. Sara / Canary is also my future assassin bride one of THE best superheroines who passes the Mako Mori test on TV.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:50 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


>I didn't see her invisible jet.

I wouldn't touch a straight line like that with a magic lasso.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:51 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


DC is Bat-Mite, Gorilla Month, and Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen. This grimdark schtick is getting really tiresome.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 12:53 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


batman v superman looks awful! but i actually liked the wonder woman stuff. the actress could be a little stronger in the jaw, but otherwise i think it looks good. the costuming is top notch.
posted by nadawi at 12:54 PM on January 21, 2016


I was reading about the Woman Wonder movie when I came across a quote that started with "Chris Pine, who plays Wonder Woman's love interest..." and I was like, "Fuck it, apparently there has to be romance or else a role in which a super strong female superhero is the lead isn't worth watching."

Not every female superhero needs to have a love interest. Having a love interest shouldn't be a defining character trait for a woman.
posted by Kitteh at 12:55 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


i know, there is no precedent for this character whatsoever and no male superheroes have love interests
posted by entropicamericana at 12:57 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


As an unabashed fan of DC's "dark angsty" style (ever since Dark Knight Returns and the introduction of Vertigo line), I sure as shit hope not.

You want fun? Marvel's films are readily available for those looking for that. For my money, DC's "angst" is the bitter, black coffee that cleanses the palate after the tangy sweetness of Marvel. I like both, and both have their place.


That's fair, although I hope you'd recognize that those of us who liked superheroes to be fun had Superman and Batman and the rest of the DC characters for a long time before Frank Miller swiped them from us and repurposed them for the kinds of stuff you like.
posted by straight at 12:58 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


What would be perfect is for DC to scrap their current movie universe and just move the TV universe (well, combining Supergirl into the Arrow/Flash universe) over into it. Add Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the rest of the Justice League in. Keep the tone of the TV series. Have dark and edgy, but have fun also.

The DC TV universe is great, just as the Marvel movie universe is starting to fray at the overstuffed seams. They already are doing it right, they just don't acknowledge it.
posted by Hactar at 12:59 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


Not every female superhero needs to have a love interest. Having a love interest shouldn't be a defining character trait for a woman.

How many male superheroes are allowed to have a movie without a love interest? I can't think of any.
posted by straight at 12:59 PM on January 21, 2016


Not every female superhero needs to have a love interest. Having a love interest shouldn't be a defining character trait for a woman.

i know, there is no precedent for this character whatsoever and no male superheroes have love interests


Steve Trevor is a relic of the times when every female superhero (such as there were) did have to have a love interest.

And "What about the menz?!?" is tired and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to sell it.
posted by Etrigan at 1:00 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]


I hope you'd recognize that those of us who liked superheroes to be fun had Superman and Batman and the rest of the DC characters for a long time before Frank Miller swiped them from us and repurposed them for the kinds of stuff you like.

BRIANDEFACEPALMA
posted by echocollate at 1:01 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I really enjoyed the trailer except for the things pointed out in the link Kitteh shared above. I really was put off by the lingering shot ass shot as Harley bent over to pick up whatever she was stealing there. I realized everything I like about the character started in Mad Love and that she's really not all that interesting to me anymore now that she's sex-doll-with-giant-hammer. Indeed, she's off-putting for the wrong reasons now.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:02 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


How many male superheroes are allowed to have a movie without a love interest? I can't think of any.

Steve Rogers in The Winter Soldier and Matt Murdock in Daredevil S1 are two very recent examples.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:03 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


DC's best and funniest media property right now is Teen Titans Go! and I don't care who knows it!
posted by Small Dollar at 1:03 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


I have a rule that, if I know I'm going to see the movie no matter what -- as in this case, Warner Bros already has my money; I'm just holding it in escrow -- I refuse to watch trailers or pre-release assets.

IT IS KILLING ME RIGHT NOW because I want to see Margot Robbie and Jared Leto.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:03 PM on January 21, 2016


Oh what a roller-coaster on Suicide Squad.

At one point I would have been psyched as hell about it, then a bunch of grimdark bore fest DC movies happened and so it just seemed like it was going to be more but worse, then we get tattoo joker etc...

But that last trailer makes it seem like it might be worth giving it a chance?

It's got colors in at least.
posted by Artw at 1:04 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Steve Trevor is a relic of the times when every female superhero (such as there were) did have to have a love interest.

" storylines involving post-Marston Steve and Wonder Woman typically involved inversions of the damsel in distress trope, with Wonder Woman coming to Steve's rescue."

Such a relic, look how it reinforces the patriarchy!

And "What about the menz?!?" is tired and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to sell it.

Okay, name one superhero movie without a love interest. I'll wait.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:05 PM on January 21, 2016


Steve Rogers in The Winter Soldier

Poor old Bucky.
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on January 21, 2016 [25 favorites]


Okay, name one superhero movie without a love interest. I'll wait.

Unbreakable
posted by rhizome at 1:05 PM on January 21, 2016 [6 favorites]


Okay, name one superhero movie without a love interest. I'll wait.

Pacific Rim
Mad Max: Fury Road

Winter Soldier doesn't count because Steve is clearly trying to date, while letting go of Peggy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:07 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Unbreakable
I suggest you watch it again.

The others are not superhero films. Nice try, though.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:08 PM on January 21, 2016


Winter Soldier doesn't count because Steve is clearly trying to date

And also Bucky.
posted by bonehead at 1:09 PM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


Okay, name one superhero movie without a love interest. I'll wait.

I just named two Marvel properties, and you could probably add the eponymous Agent Carter to the list as well. Also: Blade (all three movies), Punisher: War Zone, and Snowpiercer.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:09 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


DC's best and funniest media property right now is Teen Titans Go! and I don't care who knows it!

Comment needs content warning; I will now have "The Night Begins To Shine" stuck in my head all day
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:11 PM on January 21, 2016


Matt Murdock had romantic teases with both Claire and Karen, and Winter Soldier was 100% a starcrossed Steve/Bucky romance.

I don't mind Steve Trevor's presence much in the Wonder Woman movie because I adore good superhero soap opera romance. But I would be equally pleased if Steve T. played for Diana the same role that Sam/Falcon did for Steve Rogers, AKA "platonic new BFF who hits all the 'new love interest' character beats except for the kissing."
posted by nicebookrack at 1:12 PM on January 21, 2016


Every Batman film ever made.

Bruce is only really ever in love with one thing. He fools around, sure. But he's never really loved anyone more than casually, especially in the films.
posted by bonehead at 1:13 PM on January 21, 2016


BTW Punisher: War Zone was directed by Lexi Alexander, who is also directing episodes of shows like Arrow and Supergirl. She's also a badass on Twitter, you should follow her and her work.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:13 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


I suggest you watch it again.

I feel like what you're thinking of is a MacGuffin. It's not like the other movie contexts for relationships here.
posted by rhizome at 1:13 PM on January 21, 2016


He has a much deeper relationship with Alfred, for example, than any of his supposed paramours.
posted by bonehead at 1:14 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I said movie, not TV series. Besides, there was clearly will-they-won't they going on with Night Nurse and Karen Paige, Elektra is on her way in Season 2 (and discussed in one episode), Sharon Carter appears briefly in TWS, and Agent Carter begins with her mourning Steve, finishing with her interested in Agent Sousa, and season two begins with a new love interest.

The Punisher I'll give you, but that's the grimdark MeFis love to hate, so should that count?
posted by entropicamericana at 1:14 PM on January 21, 2016


Harley Quinn was not always a 15-year-old's Malkavian character from 1995, was she? Or am I getting old? Yes, I think that's it.

I understood that reference, but it does make me wonder about the average age around here. Must be like late 30s, early 40s at this point, right?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:15 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


if you don't think women are more often relegated to needing a love interest to have a story, including inversions on popular tropes, i'm not sure what to tell you. people are allowed to be disappointed that the big huge name in the movie is wonder woman's love interest.
posted by nadawi at 1:15 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]


Winter Soldier? What madness is this? Steve Rogers holds his love interest's hand and fights back tears as she slips away from him.
posted by straight at 1:16 PM on January 21, 2016


The Punisher I'll give you, but that's the grimdark MeFis love to hate

Have you even watched it? Because if you did you'd realize it's far more similar to what the Suicide Squad trailer is promising compared to Bats v Supes.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:17 PM on January 21, 2016


Winter Soldier? What madness is this? Steve Rogers holds his love interest's hand and fights back tears as she slips away from him.

She's not his love interest in the movie by any stretch of the imagination.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:18 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Batman doesn't have a girlfriend because he's already married. TO LADY JUSTICE.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:19 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Punisher is what he is because of what happened to his love interest. It's a cliche refigerator deal, but you can't say Frank is without a wife (and kid).
posted by bonehead at 1:19 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Batman's truest loves are JUSTICE and his adopted Batfamily, which is why it KILLS me that we will likely never get the various Robins in live action. Just give me Dick & Jason & Tim & Damian (& Steph & Cass & Alfred) punching people onscreen together, DC, please oh please.
posted by nicebookrack at 1:20 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Let's not dig too deep into what Wonder Woman is really about, okay? I can guarantee no good will come of that.
posted by Naberius at 1:21 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


true. i always have pause when she's referred to as historically a feminist symbol. if anything, she has been wrestled away from spank material because we were starving for a good female character with depth.
posted by nadawi at 1:23 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


The Punisher is what he is because of what happened to his love interest. It's a cliche refigerator deal, but you can't say Frank is without a wife (and kid).

Punisher: War Zone is a completely separate movie from both the Dolph Lundgren and Thomas Jane movies.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:23 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd love to see WW's relationship to Trevor be just Fun Times by the way. DC haven't treated it as important since, what, the 1970s? The early 80s, maybe? It's certainly not central to the modern character at all. I do hope that translates to the screen.
posted by bonehead at 1:24 PM on January 21, 2016


Yeah, I have to say, after the original Legends of Tomorrow trailer, I looked at my wife and said, "So, Arthur Darvill is playing Rory Williams cosplaying as the more serious parts of the Doctor and calling himself Rip Hunter."

And we agreed, yeah, basically that, and yet, it works.
posted by mephron at 1:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


The Punisher is what he is because of what happened to his love interest.

But he doesn't get a new one. You might as well say that Blade is what he is because of what happened to his mother, so that doesn't count either.
posted by Etrigan at 1:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Mod note: Couple of comments deleted. Maybe we can step back from the "but what about men and love interests??" thing, it's looking like a pretty big derail?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:26 PM on January 21, 2016


Punisher: War Zone is a completely separate movie from both the Dolph Lundgren and Thomas Jane movies.

Punisher: War Zone is a completely separate movie from any common-sense notions of decency or restraint and is the best movie ever.
posted by Shepherd at 1:27 PM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]


But he doesn't get a new one.

Sure he does. She's classy and high-caliber. A real pistol, you might say.
posted by bonehead at 1:30 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Suicide Squad looks like Ed Hardy: The Movie. If I say that enough, will someone put it on the poster?
posted by pxe2000 at 1:31 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


i get more hot topic clearance sale from the costuming and make up.
posted by nadawi at 1:38 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Teen Titans Go!

That was running on a TV where we were eating breakfast on Saturday and my wife (not knowing the title) called it "Junior League," which I thought was an inspired name.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:41 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've still got the man version of a ladyboner for Legends of Tomorrow, though.

The English language must've taken weird turn when I wasn't paying attention.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:42 PM on January 21, 2016 [16 favorites]


It does that.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:45 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Another Legends of Tomorrow fight scene sneak peek! Tiny Ray!

FYI, they've already cast Jonah Hex for a future LoT episode. Legends of Tomorrow wearing COWBOY HATS!
posted by nicebookrack at 1:47 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Nthing the amazingness of War Zone. Basically a live action Ennis comic.
posted by Artw at 1:50 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Suicide Squad looks a lot better than the Batman vs. Superman thing.
posted by octothorpe at 1:56 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


> i always have pause when she's referred to as historically a feminist symbol

But she's fighting for our rights! In her satin tights!
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:59 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Batman doesn't have a girlfriend because he's already married. TO LADY JUSTICE.

That's a totally different universe.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:03 PM on January 21, 2016


Wonder Woman has always been a symbol of feminist spanking.
posted by Artw at 2:05 PM on January 21, 2016


Shepherd: "Punisher: War Zone is a completely separate movie from any common-sense notions of decency or restraint and is the best movie ever."

DREDD disagrees.
posted by boo_radley at 2:08 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


I had to pause the trailer to confirm that yes, there actually is a guy with a giant eyeball for a head shooting a machinegun.

Mmm, not quite. That's just Deadsh--ZOMG, they did put The Residents in the film! Let me rescind at least some of my previous reservations.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:08 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Huh. Legends of Tomorrow has both Prison Break brothers, Alias's dad, and the Superman who wasn't Nicolas Cage? Might have to check it out.
posted by mhum at 2:09 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]




Man., I was really hoping Will Smith would try to play John Ostrander's Deadshot, but it looks like they told him to go all "Will Smith, Action Star!" wth it instead.
posted by kewb at 2:14 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'd love to see a movie about this Batman character who only has time for Justice, but the Nolan Batman movies have each totally had love interests. Depending on how you interpret the ending of the last one, the series arguably ends with Bruce Wayne ditching Batman and Justice to live happily ever after with Catwoman.
posted by straight at 2:15 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm no fan of Steve Trevor, but I'm hoping Chris Pine manages to make us like him, because the alternative is probably Superman ♡ Wonder Woman.
posted by straight at 2:19 PM on January 21, 2016


Eh Bohemian Rhapsody was a decent choice, but I feel they there's an even darker, more important, and groundbreaking song they should have used.
posted by FJT at 3:00 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]


mhum: Apparently once Wentworth Miller was cast (flawlessly) as Captain Cold, they asked him if he had actor suggestions for Cold's right-hand rogue Heat Wave, and Miller immediately nominated Dominic Purcell, because they are BFF4LIFE❤️. I'm happy we're getting more of that relationship in LoT, since even though Heat Wave got the least amount of development on The Flash, Miller/Purcell still play off each other so well.

Really the Arrowverse is like the perfect center of overlapping Venn diagrams of actors from Prison Break / Spartacus / Doctor Who. And now Jewel Staite is guest-starring on LoT, so throw Firefly / the Jossverse in the mix as well!
posted by nicebookrack at 3:13 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


FJT your song selection is an excellent complement to this thoughtful character study of Oliver Queen
posted by nicebookrack at 3:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


Shepherd: "Punisher: War Zone is a completely separate movie from any common-sense notions of decency or restraint and is the best movie ever."

DREDD disagrees.


Guys, let's not fight. They are both the best movie ever. Also Fury Road and Robocop.
posted by Artw at 3:38 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


I really like how they're downplaying Boomerang as a pure schlub in the trailers. He was the comedic sidekick in the comics, true, and also one of their heaviest hitters. I hope when he really gets going in the thick of it, it will wind up being one of those stand-up-and-cheer audience surprises.

I am currently binge-watching The Flash, and it reminds me of the Batman animated series of the '90s, where they spent some real money on character actors for supporting roles - the villains generally act up a storm, and are engaging and easy to root for and against, at the same time.

LoT seems to be taking more time to develop Heatwave as a character, and he's finally the counterpart Captain Cold truly deserves - you get why Snart likes teaming up with him. The Hawkman helmet is pretty awful, I much preferred the Smallville one, tho the costume overall is better.

Steve Trevor is a relic of the times when every female superhero (such as there were) did have to have a love interest.

I'm not certain that's true, unless you count Satan as a love interest. (And the other Black Widow of the time, published by Holyoke, has an origin where her husband is killed, prompting her to pull on a mask and kick ass for justice. And Miss Fury has a number of love interests, one of whom dumped her for a supervillain, who's son she adopted as a single mother. She would fight crime in a black catsuit and sometimes a bikini, and was created by a woman artist, June Tarpé Mills.)

Steve Trevor is a love interest, but in the same way Lois Lane is Superman's love interest - a supporting character to add human interest to a superhuman, and because romance comics were big sellers at the time, rather than shoe-horned in because she needs a man outside of her own motivations as a character. There are some non-feminist tropes in his inception - she follows her love interest away from home and into the outside world - but they make sense as normal romantic/adventure tropes.

Wonder Woman has had the good(?) fortune of being long-lived enough to have been through a number of anti-feminist backlashes and regressive periods, some of which undoubtedly painted Steve Trevor in the Essential Man role, and that may be where the idea he's holding her back comes from - at some points, he did.

He's also boring. He's the guy your friend is seeing and when she brings him to a party, he just smiles insincerely the whole time while making only non-committal smalltalk, and then your friend says he was having the time of his life when you see her next.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:05 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I kinda sorta desperately wanna see Captain Boomerang II (Owen Mercer) on CW's The Flash, purely because unless it got retconned again, Boomerang II is both Boomerang I's son AND a direct descendant of Reverse Flash AND Barry's grandson's chronologically older time-shifted younger half-brother, and I would loooove to see how CW Flash pulls that off. Because they WOULD pull it off.
posted by nicebookrack at 4:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Steve Trevor is a relic of the times when every female superhero (such as there were) did have to have a love interest.

I'm not certain that's true, unless you count Satan as a love interest.
The Black Widow makes five appearances during the period fans and historians call the Golden Age of comic books, all five written by George Kapitan. These short comics stories (the longest is eight pages, the shortest five) are spread among three different Timely anthology titles over a three-year period from 1940 to 1943.
I don't think that she's a particularly good example of what female superheroes were allowed to get away with (by publishers or audiences). Jimmy Olsen spent more time as a woman in comics than Black Widow did.
posted by Etrigan at 4:25 PM on January 21, 2016


Jimmy Olsen spent more time as a woman in comics than Black Widow did.

In the 50's, when the industry had solidified into something mostly mainstream and driven by an editorial heirarchy, sure. In the early Golden Age of the '40s, the "cambrian explosion" of superheroes, there were a number of memorable, if not long-lived, heroines without love interests - some of them overtly anti-sexist.(And a few who explicitly used the notion of "every woman needs a man" to trick the villains by playing to their vanity, but they were more common in the pulps.)

It's a long, long way from "every female superhero ... did have to have a love interest."
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:48 PM on January 21, 2016


I was a big DC reader in my comics days but I'm pretty much done with their grimdark movies. I'm considering Wonder Woman. I can't even make myself watch the new Suicide Squad trailer. But I am going to be all over Legends of Tomorrow when it shows up in iTunes tomorrow.

(And I'm not a stan for the Marvel movies either. I liked Winter Soldier a lot, was meh on Age of Ultron, and couldn't even be arsed to watch Ant-Man. I think GOTG may have been peak Marvel, or really just over the top, and that they're going to have trouble maintaining the quality, such as it is, of their films going forward.)
posted by immlass at 4:57 PM on January 21, 2016


Skipping Ultron for Ant-Man is absolutely the way to go.
posted by Artw at 5:04 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


if you're done with their grimdark movies you should really give the suicide squad trailer a watch.
posted by nadawi at 5:05 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Historically Suicide Squad was the black humor offshoot of the light but fairly self-serious DCU, I was worried it might not be able to contrast itself against the none-more-dark-and-gritty DC movie style, but black humor might be a good contrast against utter humorlessness as well.
posted by Artw at 5:14 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]




I... I have no other place to discuss this. Deadpool. Australia Day.

He references the first time I got into a fist fight in elementary school (I live across the street from the kid who punched me in the face. His daughters and mine are great friends. I'm sure he's forgotten about it. I haven't. I was a weird, weird kid. My entire life is an arc going from "Awful, incomprehensible weirdness" to "Mildly irritating noncomformity." I tower over this dude. He weighs less than my thigh, and I am no longer obese. I am afraid he will remember because I had it coming, and if asked, I'd let him punch me in the face again. I really did deserve it. Also, he has a 12' tall galvanized sheetmetal Abe Lincoln in his yard, with spraypainted grafiti on it. On a cul de sac. In rural Rhode island. That also has an octagonal house. I haven't inquired as to why its there, because I don't want another punch. He did make me use his backpack leaf blower, as mine was puny and I let him use my snowblower the winter prior. )

Well! I liked Spiderman and His Amazing Friends long after my classmates had moved on from cartoons to wrestling, dirt-bike racing and "Creature Double Features" on Saturday. My folks did not approve at all of comic books. Especially the one time my Dad picked up one of my "Epic Illustrated" issues. All comics banned! So, I was jonesing for superheroics, I watched every episode, and my favorite was the episode where the Juggernaut tries to kill the X-Men.

This is the very early 80's. Australia was popular in the USA for a variety of cultural reasons, including tennis players and yachtsmen, and Canada was boring and cold. Wolverine in the Spidey and his Amazing Friends cartoon?

Australian. Accent.

Kids at school who have comics and race dirt-bikes instead of watch cartoons on Saturday morning tell me he's Canadian of all things. I know better, I am smug and sneering in my smugness, and dare them to do something about it.

So, yeah.

DEADPOOL!

I can actually prove all of this, if asked. Amazing.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:22 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I had hopes that DC was moving out of its grimdark phase by allowing actual jokes in the SvB trailer, but this week's The Flash showed that hope to be false - the grimdark has infected the Most Hopeful of DC media by turning The Turtle into a wife murdering serial killer. I mean, The Turtle! He was one of Barry Allen's first Silver Age foes! He took it slow! Sure, there were some other powered versions of the character, but the Rogues don't get that dark, neh? That's why you can break out Snart for his own show - because you did not make him some trophy collecting serial murderer.

I skipped Legends tonight partially because of that and partially because I'm mad at the CW for wasting so much time with crossovers and partially because I dislike their Hawkbro.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:27 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also, by the way, I acquired the entire run of Claremont X-Men and Bill Sienkiewicz New Mutants for just two of my carefully hoarded Epic Illustrated issues in middle school. Go in with two magazine-length sci-fi anthology comics, come home with three milk crates full of brand-name mutant soap-opera! Score.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:32 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I hate everything about the trailers for Suicide Squad. I don't know why. But I do. I had a little interest first hearing about it and now after 2 trailers and a bunch of speculation it will be lucky to get my redbox interest.

I think it hits the same notes as Gotham for me. My mind will not accept a Bat movie without the Bat. It's like sacrilege. SS could be the greatest movie ever but if it's not Bat vs Joker I don't care. Gotham could be the greatest TV show ever but the Bat isn't the Bat he's a sniveling little kid who can't even figure out his name is the password (isn't bruce supposed to be a genius?).

I know Bats is in SS for a bit but still, it's not the same.
posted by M Edward at 7:50 PM on January 21, 2016


If you need a Bat on your team, I feel bad for you, son
We got 99 great lineups but a Bat ain't one
posted by nicebookrack at 8:14 PM on January 21, 2016


Good to see Michael Scofield and Lincoln Burrows back together in LoT.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:26 PM on January 21, 2016


Wonder Woman is cool and all, but where's the Fantomah movie we've all been clamoring for..
posted by FatherDagon at 9:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I miscommunicated. I like the Suicide Squad as a group and idea. I dislike them going against Joker. Only Bats can/should take on Joker. Unless I am misreading the trailers it looks like SS is going against some sort of Joker army. Maybe it's possible the entire Joker storyline is him "creating" Harley and then there's some other big bad for the SS but I don't get that impression.

I like new heroes/antiheroes and have always liked Harley in TAS but they should be going after some new villain. I feel like it's pretty pointless to go after Joker. (although i read a theory that Leto's Joker is not the real Joker but actually Robin who went mad and that Batfleck will be fighting a different Joker and oh I would really enjoy that but I doubt DC has the courage).

That is why I compared Gotham to SS. Gordon cannot (really) win against the Bat villains so it's a study of ineffectiveness until Bats arrives. I feel like SS is setting up to do that too. I mean at best they capture him and put him in Arkham right?

I love the voices in my head scene with Harley and hate the break a window because bad guy scene. A wonder of contrasts in such a small sample size.

also, the only true Joker is Ledger in Dark Knight with Hamil dubbing all his lines.
posted by M Edward at 10:20 PM on January 21, 2016


The problem with Wonder Woman having a love interest isn't that it's sexist or misogynist or a double-standard that male superheroes don't have to conform to. The problem is that love interests are almost always boring. Even when they're not boring people (like Black Widow and the Hulk), the love interest aspect itself is boring. Quick, who thinks the interactions between Clark Kent and Lois Lane are the interesting part of a Superman movie? Who thinks Peter Parker and Mary Jane and/or Gwen Stacey were the interesting parts of a Spiderman movie? Pretty much the only hero love interest people are actually excited about is Steve Rogers and Bucky.

More than anything, giving Wonder Woman a love interest is an example of adding boring shit to a movie because of tradition. It's like the 1980s cartoon trend of putting annoying sidekicks in cartoons (Snarf in Thundercats, Orko in He-Man). Nobody actually likes it, but media creators do it because it's Something That One Does.
posted by Bugbread at 10:40 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


I just wanted to take this opportunity to say I love how Leonard Snart just always wears a parka, no matter the occasion.

it is always COLD in his heart
He's a Cubs fan after all.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:05 PM on January 21, 2016


The Suicide Squad trailer is a good trailer in that it's well edited to good music, but it's hard to tell if the film behind it is any good (which means it's probably not).
I do hope Deadpool is funnier than its trailer suggests, because "Negasonic Teenage Warhead" is just THE best X-Man (X-Person?) name, and I have really enjoyed the majority of the X-Men films.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:27 AM on January 22, 2016


>The problem is that love interests are almost always boring.

In the context of a superhero story, yeah. But in order for the movie to really do well, it has to bring in people who don't particularly care about superheroes. And most people like to see attractive people attracting one another, so having stuff like that in your movie is a good bet if you want a general audience.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:39 AM on January 22, 2016


It's like the 1980s cartoon trend of putting annoying sidekicks in cartoons (Snarf in Thundercats, Orko in He-Man).

It was not until this moment that I consciously realized those are two different shows.
posted by shakespeherian at 5:57 AM on January 22, 2016


Quick, who thinks the interactions between Clark Kent and Lois Lane are the interesting part of a Superman movie?

I love the love story between Clark/Superman and Lois as played by Reeve and Kidder. It drives the whole second half of Donner's film and provides the character arc for Superman.
posted by octothorpe at 6:19 AM on January 22, 2016


where's the Fantomah movie we've all been clamoring for..

It could still happen. Fantomah has been showing up in some strange places lately.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:49 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sing Or Swim: "But in order for the movie to really do well, it has to bring in people who don't particularly care about superheroes. And most people like to see attractive people attracting one another, so having stuff like that in your movie is a good bet if you want a general audience."

That's the intent, but I don't think it actually accomplishes that goal. The little annoying characters in cartoons were supposed to be comic relief and characters for little kids to identify with, therefore making them like the shows better, but in reality even little kids hated those characters. And while I doubt a lot of people hate Vicki Vale or Lois Lane, I can't really imagine a lot of conversations like "Hey, you want to see the new Superman movie? He rescues Metropolis." "I dunno, I'm not really into superhero movies." "He rescues Lois Lane, too." "Oh, I like that! Let's go see it!" The love interest angle doesn't keep anyone away from superhero movies, but I can't see it as ever really drawing anyone to the movies, either, with the possible exception of love interests who are also superheroes (Bucky and Steve seem to draw a lot of interest, though that's largely among comic book fans, and I remember Catwoman and Batman also drawing a lot of interest, even among non-comic-book fans)
posted by Bugbread at 8:19 AM on January 22, 2016


Along with the Clark and Lois arc mentioned by octothorpe above, I have to add that I found the teasing romantic subplot between Bats and Wondy in the Justice League cartoons almost ridiculously compelling. I forgot just how good that ongoing story line was until recently when somebody asked me for some Vandal Savage recommendations before the LoT build-up on Flash and Arrow. Rather than digging back issues out of storage, I passed along the Savage episodes, and before I did that I took a quick look at them myself, and damn, I was hooked again. Bruce saving Diana from an awkward social situation by whisking her out to the dance floor in Paris--it was perfect. And so was the way the entire relationship played out (from the rescue attempt at Gorilla City onward).

If you had asked me before being exposed to the cartoon (or even before my recent re-exposure to it), I would have never thought to pair those two characters together, but because the writing is smart and the characterizations well done they work together, and so does the whole love interest angle. So in theory I have no problem with Diana being given a love interest in the movie. In fact, it's probably kind of necessary if the plot involves her becoming aware of all that Man's World has to offer--both the good and the bad. Whether they're able to make either of the Steve Trevors (WW1 Sr. or current day descendant) a compelling character and a viable love interest is the big question.

As for the DC movies, it's funny. I was always more of a DC person than a Marvel fan by a wide margin, but the movies hold basically no interest for me. I was saying to somebody the other day, that it should be a slam dunk for DC to have my money in its pockets on every opening weekend, but that just doesn't happen, and I don't seen anything changing in the future. I have no plans to see either Suicide Squad or Batman vs. Superman. I'll keep an open mind about Wonder Woman, but I wasn't impressed by the footage (and especially the narration that went with the footage) that was released this week. Instead, it seems likely that Marvel will keep getting my movie-going dollars, or at least some of them (assuming reviews are decent for the next Captain America installment and the upcoming Deadpool release).
posted by sardonyx at 8:21 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


FYI, the first episode of Legends of Tomorrow is currently free on U.S. iTunes and Google Play.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:45 AM on January 22, 2016


entropicamericana: "My biggest complaint about the Wonder Woman footage is I didn't see her invisible jet.
see what i did there?
"

No, no I didn't.
posted by Samizdata at 10:12 AM on January 22, 2016


nicebookrack: "I am 110% on board already with LoT for going gung-ho full-on comic campy with enthusiasm and for being explicitly queer-friendly with the characters White Canary and Captain Cold. Sara / Canary is also my future assassin bride one of THE best superheroines who passes the Mako Mori test on TV."

Wow. I didn't really get a queer vibe off Cold, and I am non-het (I just read evil and snarky as hell). Loved the episode last night though.
posted by Samizdata at 10:16 AM on January 22, 2016


zombieflanders: "Okay, name one superhero movie without a love interest. I'll wait.

I just named two Marvel properties, and you could probably add the eponymous Agent Carter to the list as well. Also: Blade (all three movies), Punisher: War Zone, and Snowpiercer.
"

Look, man, Castle loved his wife, and his guns.
posted by Samizdata at 10:17 AM on January 22, 2016


nicebookrack: "Another Legends of Tomorrow fight scene sneak peek! Tiny Ray!

FYI, they've already cast Jonah Hex for a future LoT episode. Legends of Tomorrow wearing COWBOY HATS!
"

Nice. Vastly under-appreciated character I fanboy for there.
posted by Samizdata at 10:20 AM on January 22, 2016


The chemistry between Reeve & Kidder, RDJ & Paltrow, and Andrew Garfield & Emma Stone are some of the best parts of the first two Superman movies, the Iron Man movies, and the Amazing Spider-Man movies (respectively). The Paul Rudd & Evangeline Lilly relationship isn't the best part of Ant-Man, but it adds to rather than subtracts from the movie. Same goes for Chris Evans and Hayley Atwell in First Avenger.
posted by straight at 11:21 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


My biggest complaint about the Wonder Woman footage is I didn't see her invisible jet.

If you go to the Museum of Flight in Seattle, you can not see it there, too.
posted by mephron at 11:24 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've mostly been enjoying the DC TV-verse and I lurv Brandon Routh as Ray Palmer and Wentworth Miller as Leonard Snart, and have been looking forward to Legends of Tomorrow. I liked some of the Suicide Squad stuff on Arrow, and give it a shot.

If you want to make me really happy, give Katrina Law as Nyssa Al Ghul her own show where she works on taking over the world with cheerful ruthlessness.
posted by Zed at 12:05 PM on January 22, 2016


Wow. I didn't really get a queer vibe off Cold, and I am non-het (I just read evil and snarky as hell)

Well, Cold technically hasn't shown explicit romantic attraction to anyone (except his cold gun) yet. So even though Wentworth Miller plays him as pansexual, it's subtext unless (until!) the story makes it text. Miller has said he doesn't read the Captain Cold comics and bases everything on what the scriptwriters give him, sooo…? Fingers crossed.

But seriously, Leonard Snart would marry the cold gun in any state where it's legal.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:17 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


give Katrina Law as Nyssa Al Ghul her own show where she works on taking over the world with cheerful ruthlessness

I AM ALSO ON BOARD FOR THIS

I need an entire series of Nyssa VS Modern Civilization: stabbing fuckboy jerkasses by day, discovering the wonders of gay bars and Phish Food ice cream by night.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:23 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah I just want to chime in that I was going to completely ignore the Suicide Squad trailer but naju convinced me to watch it, and it seems like someone at DC was taking notes when they watched Guardians of the Galaxy. That looks great.

I think they also took note of Marvel's problem with uninspiring villains in Phase 2 and decided to go a different route. That could be a smart move, assuming these characters actually return as antagonists in future super hero stories instead of becoming heroes themselves or simply being killed off.
posted by homunculus at 5:46 PM on January 22, 2016


But she's fighting for our rights! In her satin tights!

Why is that song so damn catchy?!

(I didn't realize that Adrianne Palicki did a Wonder Woman pilot.)
posted by homunculus at 5:50 PM on January 22, 2016


give Katrina Law as Nyssa Al Ghul her own show where she works on taking over the world with cheerful ruthlessness

It's not the same, but: "Arrow's" Nyssa al Ghul Returns to Star City in February

They should do a Spartacus reunion episode with Manu Bennett and Liam McIntyre.
posted by homunculus at 6:00 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


I can't watch any of these trailers, 'cause my internet speed is straight outta 1994 right now, but all of a sudden I am more optimistic for the DC films that aren't BvS.

So, help me out, I've heard bits and pieces about Flash and Cyborg and Aquaman and Green Lantern being in the DC special. How does it look like they are doing with that? Because, aside from Aquaman, I am struggling to imagine them being good.

(Also, Nthing the love for Punisher: War Zone. But, you know kids, stay way from the earlier film with Hat Cop. Because that was so bland).
posted by Mezentian at 6:54 PM on January 22, 2016


The pilot is only available in 480p on Teh Goobles.

I watched it on my big-screen, regardless, and it was amazing. There is a DCU equivalent of a Time Lord, and he's maybe the fourth smartest member of the team... also British, no less dumb, despite his origin and accent.

The two overt villains were the most human and humane characters, apart from Ray. You know. The Atom, who is literally taller than anyone else in the show at normal size.

Ray demonstrates why we love Snart so much. Snart can be made to listen to reason, Snart is never cruel when cruelty has no purpose. Snart will be a goddamn legend. Also, he and Mick really like fighting and hurting people. They kick ass with evil intent, and it may just save us all...
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:39 PM on January 22, 2016


Also, I am completely not cool with Firestorm being there by way of date-rape-drug. The professor needs to atone for his crime.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:41 PM on January 22, 2016


Regarding the "nobody goes to see superhero movies because of the love interest" thing, back in the day I remember reading an article attributing the blockbuster cross-demographic success of the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies to the Peter/MJ romance. If there's any truth to that at all then everyone who enjoys today's superhero films and tv shows owes a tip of the hat to Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane Watson for helping to pave the way.

For all the rightful criticism the trilogy gets for repeatedly damseling MJ, it's worth pointing out that she's the deuteragonist and her perspective has the kind of narrative weight we don't see again from a love interest character until Peggy Carter gets her TV show.
posted by bettafish at 9:46 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Stan Lee and his three-way romance, Gwen, MJ and Peter, balancing beautifully as he was getting his tuccus kicked by the Villain Of The Week, is what really made Spiderman great. Yes, you had these insane super-brawls, but once they were sorted, he had to deal with his emotions, and that was always the larger battle. Raimi understood this instinctively. He also understood that Randy "The Macho Man" Savage would look incredible with the beard of an Assyrian emperor.

Good romantic interests play into this dynamic. Terrible ones are kinda boring and just there. Original Steve Trevor? Good Romantic interest, dynamic and volatile, causing change. Since Marston was no longer allowed to write the comic? Wayyyyy dull, bordering on regressive, and often going over the line.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:21 PM on January 23, 2016


I still haven't gotten to Legends. I gave up on Arrow this season, watching only Haunted (ep. 5) for the John Constantine appearance and Legends of Yesterday (ep. 8) for the second half of the Vandal Savage crossover with the Flash. Should I watch any of the return of the Atom stuff that I'm given to understand occurs in the other Arrow episodes before I watch Legends?
posted by Zed at 12:43 PM on January 25, 2016


Zed,

I wouldn't bother, unless you want to watch a full season of the show. I doubt much of his backstory will be relevant to LoT. And if something does become important, you'll be given flashbacks.

If you need his backstory, here's the condensed version: Ray came into town, took over Oliver's company, stalked/courted Felicity, developed some helpful technology (nanites), built the Atom suit, lost out in the love triangle, ended up supposedly dying in a lab accident, left Felicity as his corporate heir, was captured in his tiny state by the current Arrow bad guy, was rescued by Team Arrow, and decided that there was no reason to return to the land of the living and take up his old life. There, now you're caught up.
posted by sardonyx at 7:26 AM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


The professor needs to atone for his crime.

For the moment, I'm assuming that Martin Stein is in fact a Jack Bristow cover identity for his retirement. He's clearly having issues transitioning back to the idea that morality isn't just something to manipulate people with.

If they really wanted to fuck with us, Jennifer Garner should turn up in a neon wig in a scene or two.
posted by bonehead at 2:54 PM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you need his backstory, here's the condensed version:

Ray's also part Blue Beetle, part Iron Man, and he's had his shrinking powers for... three episodes?
posted by Mezentian at 5:38 AM on February 1, 2016




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