White Privilege II
January 22, 2016 11:45 AM Subscribe
On Thursday, Macklemore released his new 8 minute long song White Privilege II, a sequel to White Privilege off his 2005 album. Lyrics to the new song with citations available on Genius.com and commentary from Slate.com.
how much more must we mackle
posted by poffin boffin at 12:01 PM on January 22, 2016 [68 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 12:01 PM on January 22, 2016 [68 favorites]
Until we have macklemosted.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:03 PM on January 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 12:03 PM on January 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
"Macklemore’s “White Privilege II” Isn’t a Great Song, But as a Think Piece It’s Not Terrible" is possibly the most Slate headline ever.
posted by schmod at 12:09 PM on January 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by schmod at 12:09 PM on January 22, 2016 [32 favorites]
I'm confused - has Macklemore said he's the first conscious white rapper, or he was "the only kind of rapper who would speak out against homophobia"? Rap is mad homophobic, and at the same time, saying so isn't novel.
In other words: it's still a Slate article.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:16 PM on January 22, 2016
In other words: it's still a Slate article.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:16 PM on January 22, 2016
God, I'm just trying to get people to stop liking 'Downtown' so goddamn much, because it's a horrible song, and this dude is NOT talented.
posted by gsh at 12:21 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by gsh at 12:21 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
You know, I like the song. And I'm glad it exists.
I think the only real criticism you can make of the song is meta-criticism: that Macklemore, as a white rapper, is getting publicity for it because he's white, while other (non-white rapper) voices are not. As kris ex points out in the Pitchfork link above: "due to very same white privilege he's wrestling with in this song—he's going to get an inordinate amount of attention for speaking out".
But awareness isn't a zero-sum game, and I think Macklemore is doing an admirable job being nuanced and honest and uncertain about what he says. He's (pre-emptively discouraging people for calling him a 'hero' for the song, describing well-meaning fans who make casually racist comments, doesn't claim to be an ally), etc.
As a (not black) POC, I'd rather have more Macklemores than naysayers, more white people willing to discuss these issues. Casual racism is hearing "Why does everything have to be about race?". Privilege is when white people veer away from these issues at all, in fear of getting something wrong and 'sounding racist'.
Macklemore may get some things wrong, but like the person he quotes at the end, at least he's speaking to other white people (his fans) about these issues.
To quote James Baldwin:
If I'm not a nigger here and you invented him, you, the white people, invented him, then you've got to find out why. And the future of the country depends on that. Whether or not it's able to ask that question.
posted by suedehead at 12:25 PM on January 22, 2016 [34 favorites]
I think the only real criticism you can make of the song is meta-criticism: that Macklemore, as a white rapper, is getting publicity for it because he's white, while other (non-white rapper) voices are not. As kris ex points out in the Pitchfork link above: "due to very same white privilege he's wrestling with in this song—he's going to get an inordinate amount of attention for speaking out".
But awareness isn't a zero-sum game, and I think Macklemore is doing an admirable job being nuanced and honest and uncertain about what he says. He's (pre-emptively discouraging people for calling him a 'hero' for the song, describing well-meaning fans who make casually racist comments, doesn't claim to be an ally), etc.
As a (not black) POC, I'd rather have more Macklemores than naysayers, more white people willing to discuss these issues. Casual racism is hearing "Why does everything have to be about race?". Privilege is when white people veer away from these issues at all, in fear of getting something wrong and 'sounding racist'.
Macklemore may get some things wrong, but like the person he quotes at the end, at least he's speaking to other white people (his fans) about these issues.
To quote James Baldwin:
If I'm not a nigger here and you invented him, you, the white people, invented him, then you've got to find out why. And the future of the country depends on that. Whether or not it's able to ask that question.
posted by suedehead at 12:25 PM on January 22, 2016 [34 favorites]
Talib Kweli on "White Male Privilege" & Eminem - Eminem was doing big things as an up-and-comer, but shot to the top of public coverage because he was white.
Which is doubly fitting here, because Talib talks about Eminem's personas, which come across very clearly. On the other side, I wouldn't have noticed the first shift in characters characters in White Privilege II if not for the Slate piece.
(Back to Slate: also hating on the lack of 1 for 1 rhymes is like nitpicking poetry for breaking specific rules - don't sweat the details, does it work over-all?)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:30 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Which is doubly fitting here, because Talib talks about Eminem's personas, which come across very clearly. On the other side, I wouldn't have noticed the first shift in characters characters in White Privilege II if not for the Slate piece.
(Back to Slate: also hating on the lack of 1 for 1 rhymes is like nitpicking poetry for breaking specific rules - don't sweat the details, does it work over-all?)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:30 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
You know that thing where MeFi overreacts to the earnest-yet-flawed-if-you-look-at-it-a-certain-way and tells you that not only is it wrong, it's offensive, it should know better, and it should be sent to its room without any dessert?
Yeah.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:32 PM on January 22, 2016 [37 favorites]
Yeah.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:32 PM on January 22, 2016 [37 favorites]
"Macklemore’s “White Privilege II” Isn’t a Great Song, But as a Think Piece It’s Not Terrible," says hot take on website
posted by dw at 12:33 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dw at 12:33 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ha. "the music the moment" you own it you better never let it go
posted by emelenjr at 12:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 12:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Macklemore sounds his barbaric yawp over the rooftops of the world
posted by NedKoppel at 12:36 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by NedKoppel at 12:36 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
He is large he contains multitudes
posted by NedKoppel at 12:37 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by NedKoppel at 12:37 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
does this one have a great melodic hook?
because I don't care for Macklemore at all, but he's great at hiring people to sing (compose?) great melodic hooks (Eg Mary Lambert's "She keeps me warm..." - and that hook "so we put our hands up, like the ceiling can't hold us")
I listen to his songs, tuning out the bad rap until I get to those bits. (actually, for "Can't Hold Us", I just listen to the PTX cover, because they are much better singers and rappers than Macklemore).
posted by jb at 12:39 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
because I don't care for Macklemore at all, but he's great at hiring people to sing (compose?) great melodic hooks (Eg Mary Lambert's "She keeps me warm..." - and that hook "so we put our hands up, like the ceiling can't hold us")
I listen to his songs, tuning out the bad rap until I get to those bits. (actually, for "Can't Hold Us", I just listen to the PTX cover, because they are much better singers and rappers than Macklemore).
posted by jb at 12:39 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have never searched out Macklemore's music but when I hear Downtown (my phone changed downtown to downton haha) or Can't Hold Us I smile. I hate Thrift Shop though.
Music is weird and yeah Macklemore may not be the greatest ally ever but at least he's making a go of it and trying to be a "good" person.
posted by M Edward at 12:56 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Music is weird and yeah Macklemore may not be the greatest ally ever but at least he's making a go of it and trying to be a "good" person.
posted by M Edward at 12:56 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Macklemore is a guest lecturer for this semester of Introduction to Privilege 103 with this song, and while that might (rightly) annoy folks who are in the more advanced sessions or wish that other people were given the opportunity to make money doing this lecture, he also, due to his fame and the very privilege that he's talking about, has a very specific but very wide audience who, if they are interested in this course-track at all, are more than likely still in the 100 section as well.
I heard it once. I was surprised how much I didn't hate it. I'm glad he's doing it.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:57 PM on January 22, 2016 [37 favorites]
I heard it once. I was surprised how much I didn't hate it. I'm glad he's doing it.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:57 PM on January 22, 2016 [37 favorites]
Hah, that "ceiling can't hold us" song used by some casino company here is Mack Le More? It all makes a little more sense now than it did when I thought it was Akon or TI or whoever.
posted by rhizome at 1:17 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by rhizome at 1:17 PM on January 22, 2016
God, I'm just trying to get people to stop liking 'Downtown' so goddamn much, because it's a horrible song, and this dude is NOT talented.
You know I'm just gonna leave this here.
https://youtu.be/CZjOk2G80GM?t=2m15s
posted by innocentsabored at 1:19 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
You know I'm just gonna leave this here.
https://youtu.be/CZjOk2G80GM?t=2m15s
posted by innocentsabored at 1:19 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Casual racism is hearing "Why does everything have to be about race?". Privilege is when white people veer away from these issues at all, in fear of getting something wrong and 'sounding racist'.
To hear white people whine about it, to a liberal, everything sounds like racism.
To be fair, it's because all those things probably ARE racism. While in many ways the last year has been problematic, it's been a banner year for talking about racism and admitting it exists, even by the political class. Too bad it took ongoing awareness prompted by rising body counts. Still, the awareness is better to have than not, and if Macklemore gets people talking about it, the quality of the music is irrelevant to me.
Progress!
posted by Strudel at 1:31 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
To hear white people whine about it, to a liberal, everything sounds like racism.
To be fair, it's because all those things probably ARE racism. While in many ways the last year has been problematic, it's been a banner year for talking about racism and admitting it exists, even by the political class. Too bad it took ongoing awareness prompted by rising body counts. Still, the awareness is better to have than not, and if Macklemore gets people talking about it, the quality of the music is irrelevant to me.
Progress!
posted by Strudel at 1:31 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
gsh: God, I'm just trying to get people to stop liking 'Downtown' so goddamn much, because it's a horrible song, and this dude is NOT talented.
The song's not great, but the video is stupid fun, which is So Macklemore after Thrift Shop, except now he has a serious budget for the videos. But I can't see knocking him for one dumb song. Can't Hold Us has a ridiculous video, but it's catchy and hooky as hell, which is how I felt about a bunch of the stuff on The Heist (deluxe edition YT playlist).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:34 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
The song's not great, but the video is stupid fun, which is So Macklemore after Thrift Shop, except now he has a serious budget for the videos. But I can't see knocking him for one dumb song. Can't Hold Us has a ridiculous video, but it's catchy and hooky as hell, which is how I felt about a bunch of the stuff on The Heist (deluxe edition YT playlist).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:34 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
This morning I tweeted "Consolidated was the Macklemore of the 1990s."
Consolidated: Unity of Oppression (1991)
posted by larrybob at 1:45 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Consolidated: Unity of Oppression (1991)
posted by larrybob at 1:45 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I suppose I feel about this the same way I do about Patton Oswald's "rape jokes are bad" essay, which didn't seem to even have much effect on Oswald.
I mean, yeah, great, I'm glad you've come around on this, but you're simply saying what other people have been saying for decades, and yet you're presenting it like you thought it up yourself. The really heroic act would have been to amplify voices that don't have the megaphone that your privilege affords you.
And I didn't come up with that. Black people have been saying that for a while now.
posted by maxsparber at 1:47 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I mean, yeah, great, I'm glad you've come around on this, but you're simply saying what other people have been saying for decades, and yet you're presenting it like you thought it up yourself. The really heroic act would have been to amplify voices that don't have the megaphone that your privilege affords you.
And I didn't come up with that. Black people have been saying that for a while now.
posted by maxsparber at 1:47 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
This just feels like bizarro world given how often he has previously used bigotry for profit. Like his bullshit "hook nosed Jew" costume. Is he really going to get a pass because he churns out this piece mostly made up of other people's rhetoric?
posted by corb at 1:50 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 1:50 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I mean, yeah, great, I'm glad you've come around on this, but you're simply saying what other people have been saying for decades, and yet you're presenting it like you thought it up yourself.
read the text under the song link.
read the text under the song link.
SUPPORTING BLACK LED ORGANIZATIONSposted by twist my arm at 1:52 PM on January 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
As a company (Macklemore & Ryan Lewis LLC), we are committed to a long-term investment of our time, resources, finances and creative capacities towards supporting black-led organizing and anti-racist education & discourse.
We are engaging with four initial organizations and collectives whose work inspires and informs us: Black Lives Matter, People's Institute for Survival and Beyond, Youth Undoing Institutional Racism & Freedom School (a project of AFSC and The People's Institute), and Black Youth Project 100.
In dialogue with our community partners and advisers, we will continue to find ways in which we can leverage our platform and network towards strengthening the work of organizers and initiatives framed by genuine racial and social equity. We recognize that there are no easy answers, any one piece of legislation, or quick fix to undo institutional racism in our country. We wish to support direct organizing and be led by the expertise and experience of those on the front lines as we proceed.
alt link (YT) for others who can't play the main link above.
posted by andrewcooke at 1:53 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by andrewcooke at 1:53 PM on January 22, 2016
read the text under the song link.
Is that read aloud at the very end of the song? Because the song itself doesn't credit anyone but the rapper, and presents the story as a first-person, POV narrative.
Also, naming organizations that you are working in collaboration with isn't the same as crediting specific people who have already expressed what you are expressing.
posted by maxsparber at 1:55 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is that read aloud at the very end of the song? Because the song itself doesn't credit anyone but the rapper, and presents the story as a first-person, POV narrative.
Also, naming organizations that you are working in collaboration with isn't the same as crediting specific people who have already expressed what you are expressing.
posted by maxsparber at 1:55 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I mean, yeah, great, I'm glad you've come around on this, but you're simply saying what other people have been saying for decades, and yet you're presenting it like you thought it up yourself.
"Macklemore didn't discover white privilege, y'all. & in this song he isn't purporting to say he did."
"Macklemore is not a hero, a savior, or a prophet for discussing white privilege. & he is not saying he is. & you shouldn't either."
posted by suedehead at 1:56 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Macklemore didn't discover white privilege, y'all. & in this song he isn't purporting to say he did."
"Macklemore is not a hero, a savior, or a prophet for discussing white privilege. & he is not saying he is. & you shouldn't either."
posted by suedehead at 1:56 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
"White Privilege II" is too messy to be ploy; too unruly to be calculated; too all over the place to be a chess move—unless the endgame is to piss off the "Same Thrift Shop Love Can’t Hold Us” demographic to appeal to a Black audience that seems unlikely to ever fully accept him.goodness me. does that mean, possibly, it could be, what's that word again? authentic?
posted by andrewcooke at 1:56 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Maybe he just needs to
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Mackle less
YEEEEAAAAAAH
posted by slogger at 1:57 PM on January 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Mackle less
YEEEEAAAAAAH
posted by slogger at 1:57 PM on January 22, 2016 [19 favorites]
I hope this song wins him another rap Grammy.
posted by themanwho at 2:19 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by themanwho at 2:19 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Cheezus Tappdancing Christ, mefites.
You do realize that out there in the real world most white people COMPLETELY REFUTE the very concept of privilege?
How is continuing to try to start the conversation on the subject ever a bad move for someone as high profile as this?
You don't get to control progress, but you can foster and encourage where you find it.
posted by butterstick at 2:21 PM on January 22, 2016 [36 favorites]
You do realize that out there in the real world most white people COMPLETELY REFUTE the very concept of privilege?
How is continuing to try to start the conversation on the subject ever a bad move for someone as high profile as this?
You don't get to control progress, but you can foster and encourage where you find it.
posted by butterstick at 2:21 PM on January 22, 2016 [36 favorites]
It's not even the first song entitled White Privilege he did - he did the first one more than a decade ago so I guess you can stop worrying that he thinks he invented it this year.
The guy is remarkably sincere, and people shitting on that is dismaying.
posted by taterpie at 2:22 PM on January 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
The guy is remarkably sincere, and people shitting on that is dismaying.
posted by taterpie at 2:22 PM on January 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
We can be mildly critical of people without it meaning that we're sabotaging the possibility of discussing race. He's a big boy, and certainly can handle a discussion about the nuances of how white people address racism.
posted by maxsparber at 2:25 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 2:25 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Is that read aloud at the very end of the song?
Are you joking? I don't think you're going to get much purchase on a No True Scotsman argument that requires announcements and disclaimers about do-goodery behind pop songs.
But do tell, what nuance is missing?
posted by rhizome at 2:28 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are you joking? I don't think you're going to get much purchase on a No True Scotsman argument that requires announcements and disclaimers about do-goodery behind pop songs.
But do tell, what nuance is missing?
posted by rhizome at 2:28 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
All of this Mackling is tearing us apart, Mefites.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 2:28 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 2:28 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
The name "Macklemore" itself implies there is no upper limit, no LD50, to Mackling.
posted by rhizome at 2:29 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 2:29 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I mean, yeah, great, I'm glad you've come around on this, but you're simply saying what other people have been saying for decades, and yet you're presenting it like you thought it up yourself. The really heroic act would have been to amplify voices that don't have the megaphone that your privilege affords you.
I'm not sure this is really something he's just coming around on - his first "White Privilege" track was from before he got famous - or why you think he's presenting it like it's something he's thought up by himself. He's acknowledging and rebroadcasting critiques other people have made, calling out his own fans, and just generally restating that white people in hip-hop need to do better. I find the guy's music pretty corny so I don't follow him closely enough to know if there were specific opportunities to be an ally that he screwed up, and obviously writing a song about this stuff doesn't, in itself, change anything. But I don't think he said it does so I'm not sure exactly what's supposed to be wrong with writing the song.
posted by atoxyl at 2:31 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure this is really something he's just coming around on - his first "White Privilege" track was from before he got famous - or why you think he's presenting it like it's something he's thought up by himself. He's acknowledging and rebroadcasting critiques other people have made, calling out his own fans, and just generally restating that white people in hip-hop need to do better. I find the guy's music pretty corny so I don't follow him closely enough to know if there were specific opportunities to be an ally that he screwed up, and obviously writing a song about this stuff doesn't, in itself, change anything. But I don't think he said it does so I'm not sure exactly what's supposed to be wrong with writing the song.
posted by atoxyl at 2:31 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Note: In addition to the main text on whiteprivilege2.com, you can click on the pictures of the collaborators to read more by each of them. One of them, Nikkita Oliver, also wrote about the song at the Stranger.
posted by mbrubeck at 2:47 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 2:47 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Like yeah it would have meant more to throw in for Kendrick at the Grammies (or decline it!) than to text him to apologize later. But I'm not sure how this song could be more on-the-nose than it already is. Well okay, he could have shouted out specific writers. Given how earnest and didactic and uncool the song already is that... might actually be cool?
posted by atoxyl at 2:54 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 2:54 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
let's be mad at the average white American for not listening to what we've already been saying,
not at Macklemore for saying it again
posted by redsparkler at 2:57 PM on January 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
not at Macklemore for saying it again
posted by redsparkler at 2:57 PM on January 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
You do realize that out there in the real world most white people COMPLETELY REFUTE the very concept of privilege?
Inconceivable!
Though actually I would love to see a survey
posted by Going To Maine at 3:01 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Inconceivable!
Though actually I would love to see a survey
posted by Going To Maine at 3:01 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
oh shit thanks mbrubeck. i was just hovering like a jackass, but click! guess we might have to trust the black artists involved that they weren't unaware of the nuances:
jamila woods (top left)
jamila woods (top left)
I participated in this record because I believe strongly in the mission behind it. I was honestly wary at first because of what it sounds like: “Macklemore doing a song about Black Lives Matter...” When you hear that for the first time, it’s only natural to give it a side eye.posted by twist my arm at 3:01 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the most challenging parts of the creative process was knowing that the song was being created with a white audience in mind. I always approach writing from a place of love, not a passive love but an active love – an I’m-gonna-tell-you-when-you’re-messing-up-because-I-love-you kinda love. That’s how James Baldwin talks about his relationship to America. That’s how I feel about my relationship to my white audience.
The Nikkita OIiver piece that mbrubeck posted is really great:
This song is a product of the System; which means it is neither a solution nor comprehensive. It is undeniably emblematic of the problem it purports to articulate.
That said, I can tell most white people about white supremacy till I am blue in the face and they won't hear me. Conversation is not enough. Yet every white person I know who is now a part of undoing white supremacy was first moved to do so by dialogue and study.
This song is inherently flawed It exists only because the system of oppression, patriarchy and white supremacy exist.
I've got all kind of shit to talk about Macklemore, but that this is is a discussion being had by about something who is basically a pop star isn't gonna get me to shit on it just because it's him. In some ways I may judge it more harshly, but I'm definitely going to let him get out of the gate.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:03 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
This song is a product of the System; which means it is neither a solution nor comprehensive. It is undeniably emblematic of the problem it purports to articulate.
That said, I can tell most white people about white supremacy till I am blue in the face and they won't hear me. Conversation is not enough. Yet every white person I know who is now a part of undoing white supremacy was first moved to do so by dialogue and study.
This song is inherently flawed It exists only because the system of oppression, patriarchy and white supremacy exist.
I've got all kind of shit to talk about Macklemore, but that this is is a discussion being had by about something who is basically a pop star isn't gonna get me to shit on it just because it's him. In some ways I may judge it more harshly, but I'm definitely going to let him get out of the gate.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:03 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Can anybody tell me if he acknowledges how he won best rap artist over Kendrick Lamar?
I figure that should be in a song called "white privilege".
More or less. He really did text Kendrick to apologize for not bringing it up in his speech - which obviously isn't worth half as much as actually saying it onstage but hey
posted by atoxyl at 3:20 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I figure that should be in a song called "white privilege".
More or less. He really did text Kendrick to apologize for not bringing it up in his speech - which obviously isn't worth half as much as actually saying it onstage but hey
posted by atoxyl at 3:20 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
This critique I kinda buy though I mean I don't think he's primarily trying to make us feel bad for him but he's kind of positioned at the center of the narrative. And then you end up with people like me feeling compelled to stick up for what he's trying to do even though I don't think he's a very good rapper. So that's probably enough to say about Macklemore for right now.
posted by atoxyl at 3:43 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 3:43 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can anybody tell me if he acknowledges how he won best rap artist over Kendrick Lamar?
Why do we keep playing this game?
Macklemore: 6 nominations, 4 awards
Kendrick Lamar: 20 nominations (12 pending), 2 awards
This beef is ridiculous. It's like how we complain about Jethro Tull winning that first Best Metal Grammy over Metallica while forgetting they received 16 nominations and won 8 AFTER that.
The Grammys are a trailing, not a leading indicator.
posted by dw at 4:00 PM on January 22, 2016
Why do we keep playing this game?
Macklemore: 6 nominations, 4 awards
Kendrick Lamar: 20 nominations (12 pending), 2 awards
This beef is ridiculous. It's like how we complain about Jethro Tull winning that first Best Metal Grammy over Metallica while forgetting they received 16 nominations and won 8 AFTER that.
The Grammys are a trailing, not a leading indicator.
posted by dw at 4:00 PM on January 22, 2016
Jamila Woods, whose vocals are featured at the end of the track, also released her own single blk girl soldier this week.
posted by mbrubeck at 4:18 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 4:18 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
i'd rather macklemore get back to making fun bops about remembered parties and introspective music about addiction. although, i'd take a million over earnest privilege pieces from him over any of iggy's sad attempts to revive her not very good career.
posted by nadawi at 4:50 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:50 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
good for him. if this gets one person (who otherwise wouldn't do so) to think about systemic racism, that's awesome.
(but, i'm going to be honest here... in my personal experience, the intended audience rarely has a good track record wrt appropriation and understanding the collaborative nature of race. but that isn't on macklemore.)
from a strictly musical standpoint, the track does feel like a watered down version of some of the more amazing moments from Kendrick's "To Pimp A Butterfly"...
I guess that makes "White Privilege 2" the musical equivalent of the text message macklemore sent kendrick after the grammys.
posted by raihan_ at 4:58 PM on January 22, 2016
(but, i'm going to be honest here... in my personal experience, the intended audience rarely has a good track record wrt appropriation and understanding the collaborative nature of race. but that isn't on macklemore.)
from a strictly musical standpoint, the track does feel like a watered down version of some of the more amazing moments from Kendrick's "To Pimp A Butterfly"...
I guess that makes "White Privilege 2" the musical equivalent of the text message macklemore sent kendrick after the grammys.
posted by raihan_ at 4:58 PM on January 22, 2016
All I know is Goodwill was noticeably more expensive and crowded after that song came out. Value Village FTW people.
posted by 3urypteris at 5:17 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by 3urypteris at 5:17 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
well if nothing else, we get another round of talib kweli trying to educate iggy azalea over on his twitter. hopefully we'll get a storify soon.
posted by nadawi at 5:18 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by nadawi at 5:18 PM on January 22, 2016
from a strictly musical standpoint, the track does feel like a watered down version of some of the more amazing moments from Kendrick’s “To Pimp A Butterfly”...
I was pleased the other day to finally meet someone else who also didn’t like TUPAB! We formed a small club and made two T-shirts.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:20 PM on January 22, 2016
I was pleased the other day to finally meet someone else who also didn’t like TUPAB! We formed a small club and made two T-shirts.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:20 PM on January 22, 2016
You do realize that out there in the real world most white people COMPLETELY REFUTE the very concept of privilege?
For a moment, I thought you meant that (A) most white people aren't actually the slightest bit privileged. But I think what you mean is (B) that when told that they have this privilege, most white people respond with a verbal refutation of the concept? Did I converge on the correct interpretation?
posted by theorique at 5:27 PM on January 22, 2016
For a moment, I thought you meant that (A) most white people aren't actually the slightest bit privileged. But I think what you mean is (B) that when told that they have this privilege, most white people respond with a verbal refutation of the concept? Did I converge on the correct interpretation?
posted by theorique at 5:27 PM on January 22, 2016
"Repudiate" was a good word until people decided they didn't need it anymore. :(
posted by howfar at 5:32 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by howfar at 5:32 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
We formed a small club and made two T-shirts.
Did they say "Wrongtarians, Local Chapter"?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 7:16 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Did they say "Wrongtarians, Local Chapter"?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 7:16 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can we all do better to amplify black voices? Yes.
Should we silence the white voices that are talking about it, because it's not as perfect of a situation as it could be? No.
Making the perfect the enemy of the good is a great way to get nothing at all done.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 7:38 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Should we silence the white voices that are talking about it, because it's not as perfect of a situation as it could be? No.
Making the perfect the enemy of the good is a great way to get nothing at all done.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 7:38 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
...who here has the power to silence macklemore? and even if any of us had that power, critique is not the same as silencing.
posted by nadawi at 7:42 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 7:42 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I find him insufferable, and this song isn't making me change my feelings at all.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:52 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by Dip Flash at 7:52 PM on January 22, 2016
I am just glad that he is following the lead of esteemed rapper Lil Dicky (slVimeo) . . .
posted by auggy at 8:04 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by auggy at 8:04 PM on January 22, 2016
We formed a small club and made two T-shirts.
Did they say "Wrongtarians, Local Chapter"?
“Keep that butterfly off the street!” on the top front, “No Thanks, Obama!” on the bottom of the front, “Keep 70s-style funk jazziness back in the 70s!” on the top back, “Kamasi Washington is pretty good but not great” on the middle back, “More like Dying Lotus, amirite?” and “BLUNDERCAT” on the bottom back, and “Yeezus: less astute but better listening” running up the sides. (It’s quite a shirt.)
posted by Going To Maine at 8:04 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Did they say "Wrongtarians, Local Chapter"?
“Keep that butterfly off the street!” on the top front, “No Thanks, Obama!” on the bottom of the front, “Keep 70s-style funk jazziness back in the 70s!” on the top back, “Kamasi Washington is pretty good but not great” on the middle back, “More like Dying Lotus, amirite?” and “BLUNDERCAT” on the bottom back, and “Yeezus: less astute but better listening” running up the sides. (It’s quite a shirt.)
posted by Going To Maine at 8:04 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
My reaction to TPAB:
first listen - holy shit
then - enough with the gimmicky voices I can't knock the ambition but
eventually - okay it's a good album with several fantastic songs
posted by atoxyl at 8:35 PM on January 22, 2016
first listen - holy shit
then - enough with the gimmicky voices I can't knock the ambition but
eventually - okay it's a good album with several fantastic songs
posted by atoxyl at 8:35 PM on January 22, 2016
Metafilter: Silencing Macklemore since 2016
posted by corb at 9:12 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 9:12 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
ALL MY LIFE
posted by rhizome at 11:18 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:18 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I hate that this song is all about Macklemore. It's his grand defense of himself as a white artist in hip-hop. His acknowledgment of his privilege being the major reason for his success, and how him being conscious of and outspoken about that privilege makes him one of the good guys, because he's using his art for good.
EXCEPT BLACK LIVES MATTER IS NOT ABOUT YOU, MACKLEMORE. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR CAREER AND WHETHER YOU BELONG IN HIP-HOP OR WHETHER YOU BELONG AT A PROTEST. IT'S JUST NOT ABOUT YOU, PERIOD. No one in BLM and no one protesting for their freedom is sitting around thinking about Macklemore and his career. That's not an important topic in comparison to what they're concerned about - black people getting shot dead in the streets, fearing for their lives, cover-ups that go all the way to the heads of government, systemic devaluing and erasing of black lives by police and by court systems.
You can't use these issues to talk about yourself and why you're okay because you get it. You can't center yourself as the subject in a topic that is not about you. If you do, expect to be called out for it.
The second verse where someone is criticizing him contains the line: "Is this about you, well, then what's your intention?" He has not answered that question when it comes to this song. The song itself is incredibly self-centered and offensive for how it's trojan horsing "Is Macklemore good for hip-hop" into a much more important topic. And it's pre-emptively bringing up those criticisms as a defense (rapping "is this about you" means that it can't be about you, right?), which seems more nauseating.
I think that white privilege is an important topic. If this turns a lot of people on to the concept, great! That's the ultimate trump card, I guess, so my comments are moot. There's no way to criticize the song from that perspective. Fine. But I personally don't have to like this song or what Macklemore is daring to do in it, and I don't think he deserves any cookies for diverting the attention about Laquan McDonald and a dozen other topics into attention toward himself as a down white guy.
posted by naju at 12:07 AM on January 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
EXCEPT BLACK LIVES MATTER IS NOT ABOUT YOU, MACKLEMORE. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR CAREER AND WHETHER YOU BELONG IN HIP-HOP OR WHETHER YOU BELONG AT A PROTEST. IT'S JUST NOT ABOUT YOU, PERIOD. No one in BLM and no one protesting for their freedom is sitting around thinking about Macklemore and his career. That's not an important topic in comparison to what they're concerned about - black people getting shot dead in the streets, fearing for their lives, cover-ups that go all the way to the heads of government, systemic devaluing and erasing of black lives by police and by court systems.
You can't use these issues to talk about yourself and why you're okay because you get it. You can't center yourself as the subject in a topic that is not about you. If you do, expect to be called out for it.
The second verse where someone is criticizing him contains the line: "Is this about you, well, then what's your intention?" He has not answered that question when it comes to this song. The song itself is incredibly self-centered and offensive for how it's trojan horsing "Is Macklemore good for hip-hop" into a much more important topic. And it's pre-emptively bringing up those criticisms as a defense (rapping "is this about you" means that it can't be about you, right?), which seems more nauseating.
I think that white privilege is an important topic. If this turns a lot of people on to the concept, great! That's the ultimate trump card, I guess, so my comments are moot. There's no way to criticize the song from that perspective. Fine. But I personally don't have to like this song or what Macklemore is daring to do in it, and I don't think he deserves any cookies for diverting the attention about Laquan McDonald and a dozen other topics into attention toward himself as a down white guy.
posted by naju at 12:07 AM on January 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
Kendrick Lamar: "We're in dark times, we're barely hanging on, but we will persevere because we have to"
Macklemore: "Validate me"
posted by naju at 12:15 AM on January 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Macklemore: "Validate me"
posted by naju at 12:15 AM on January 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
Marlon James: Are you a non-racist or an anti-racist? (direct video link)
posted by XMLicious at 12:23 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 12:23 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are so many great potential rhymes for 'Mackling' and 'Mackle more', I can only hope they feature prominently in a future track by of about him. Perhaps something about metaphorically smoothing over cracks and 'Spackle more', sports and 'tackle more' or gleeful laughing and 'cackle more'.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 3:36 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 3:36 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
But perhaps these disputes arise because we, in our imperfect selves and with our imperfect faculties, are each only apprehending a small facet of the whole, and not capable of perceiving the one platonic Mackle.
posted by ardgedee at 6:15 AM on January 23, 2016
posted by ardgedee at 6:15 AM on January 23, 2016
There are so many great potential rhymes for 'Mackling' and 'Mackle more', I can only hope they feature prominently in a future track by of about him. Perhaps something about metaphorically smoothing over cracks and 'Spackle more', sports and 'tackle more' or gleeful laughing and 'cackle more'.
Mackerel-more. Add lots of those healthy, anti-inflammatory, Omega-3 fatty acids in your diet.
posted by theorique at 6:19 AM on January 23, 2016
Mackerel-more. Add lots of those healthy, anti-inflammatory, Omega-3 fatty acids in your diet.
posted by theorique at 6:19 AM on January 23, 2016
So first of all, speaking as a 30something ginger who grew up in Seattle, I appreciate that I am now required to apologise on behalf of my people for Macklemore. We did our best to police our community, but as you all know we have an Innate Wackness that is nearly impossible to overcome.
Secondly, I've tried to read lots of articles about this track. I haven't listened to it yet, but it seems like half the coverage is "This is maybe encouraging I guess, but holy shit awwwwwkwaaaaard!!" and the other half is "YOU INSUFFERABLE WHITE KNIGHT THEY WON'T LOVE YOU FOR THIS!!!!"
I liked the one summary (I closed all the tabs already, soz.) that said "White Privilege II is too targeted to be accidental, but too much of a mess to be a calculated move."
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 6:36 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Secondly, I've tried to read lots of articles about this track. I haven't listened to it yet, but it seems like half the coverage is "This is maybe encouraging I guess, but holy shit awwwwwkwaaaaard!!" and the other half is "YOU INSUFFERABLE WHITE KNIGHT THEY WON'T LOVE YOU FOR THIS!!!!"
I liked the one summary (I closed all the tabs already, soz.) that said "White Privilege II is too targeted to be accidental, but too much of a mess to be a calculated move."
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 6:36 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
hey hey. Macklemore's main audience are cishet white people. Which I mean, go right ahead, macklemore, cause I got nothin' to say that crowd with my art.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:28 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:28 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have no reason to doubt his intentions, or his awareness, and I don't care about the quality of his work.
But one fucking #BLM tweet. (search URL link)
How can I not fault him *methodically* for being essentially absent from twitter on the same topic over a period of years. Obviously the song release is making a big splash, but I can't imagine the argument required to convince me that a consistent, relevant presence on the platform that grew the very hashtag given prominence in the song would not have been a worthwhile use of time. I don't mean to critique his character, or his intent, but it's *crazy* to me that he includes "The best thing white people can do is talk to each other" in the 4th spoken interlude, and yet he's not been part of the conversation during a crucial period, when many of his fans might be confused, and looking for advice, reading, and direction. Not asking for 24/7 social media presence, but signal-boosting at the very least.
I'm still not judging him personally, and I hope great things come of these partnerships he mentions.
posted by Jack Karaoke at 12:14 PM on January 23, 2016
But one fucking #BLM tweet. (search URL link)
How can I not fault him *methodically* for being essentially absent from twitter on the same topic over a period of years. Obviously the song release is making a big splash, but I can't imagine the argument required to convince me that a consistent, relevant presence on the platform that grew the very hashtag given prominence in the song would not have been a worthwhile use of time. I don't mean to critique his character, or his intent, but it's *crazy* to me that he includes "The best thing white people can do is talk to each other" in the 4th spoken interlude, and yet he's not been part of the conversation during a crucial period, when many of his fans might be confused, and looking for advice, reading, and direction. Not asking for 24/7 social media presence, but signal-boosting at the very least.
I'm still not judging him personally, and I hope great things come of these partnerships he mentions.
posted by Jack Karaoke at 12:14 PM on January 23, 2016
i do wonder where his addiction relapse fit with all of this...it's not an excuse for being absent in the conversation or bad behavior (for instance, the nose incident) but it does add some context...
posted by nadawi at 12:39 PM on January 23, 2016
posted by nadawi at 12:39 PM on January 23, 2016
From the statement by Ahamefule J. Oluo on the webpage for the song (with links added):
I think that this song is obviously aimed at a white audience, and that, as someone else noted above, it's meeting that intended audience where they are at at the intro 101 level and has the potential to bring them along a step farther, and I think there's a role and a place for that. Many of the questions that the song brings up may get that audience thinking about the effects of their actions, not just their intentions. But it sounds like Macklemore himself is still mid-step in learning to focus on the effects of his actions rather than his intentions. So personal intention is still a major verbal focus of the song, and unfortunately this detracts from the effectiveness of the rest of its questioning. Someone else posted a link to the video on the difference between being non-racist and being anti-racist above (here's another link), which I strongly recommend, which is in the same framework: a person who focuses on their own intentions can be non-racist, and one can be non-racist and have only good intentions while lying in bed asleep at night. Being anti-racist, on the other hand, requires going out of your way to check on the effects of your actions to make sure that you have not led to racist effects despite good intentions, or going out of your way to find out what else you can do to help undo systemic inequities (even beyond not further adding to them, which your good intentions will mostly though not always lead to).
If we're concerned about the effects of our actions rather than our own intentions, then we're focusing on the less-heard and systematically oppressed by default. What were Macklemore's intentions in making this song? Was he, intentionally or unintentionally, using his white privilege to refocus the narrative on himself? I don't care. What I care about is: what effect is the song having? If it has no helpful, anti-racist effect, then I'm not going to have spent a lot of time thinking about a politically useless political song. If it does lead to more white people interrogating their (our) whiteness and becoming more anti-racist, then we can commend the song for it's role and usefulness, but we won't have contributed to any possible effect of replacing rather than amplifying black voices.
(On a side note: I disagree with the Pitchfork article that asserted there was no artistic merit or cohesiveness to it: what I heard was a conscious breaking of pop or modern pop-hip hop structural rules to lyrical effect. Artistically, the song is perhaps better understood within the context of spoken word poetry/lyrics or beebop. There is quite a lot of historical and current overlap between spoken word poetry and rap/hip hop, and other ways of combining words and music (see, for example, John Legend, Erykah Badu on Def Poetry Jam, Benjamin Zephaniah, etc.).)
posted by eviemath at 12:39 PM on January 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I live in Seattle, play trumpet in the Stranger Genius Award-winning jazz group Industrial Revelation, and I write for various local and national publications. I was recently featured on This American Life and the musical I wrote, directed, and star in, NOW I'M FINE, just had its New York debut at the Public Theater in January of 2016.The repetition of "What's you're/the intention?" stood out to me as well, though I had a less positive reaction to it. When we're talking about systemic oppression, the point is the cumulative effect, not so much whether there was or was not some individual ill intention behind individual actions that add up to systemic problems. But that seems to be a hard idea for many people to grapple with. I think that the Angry Jack videos (made re: gamergate) made a good point in that, in North America at least and likely many other parts of the Western world, the dominant cultural and religious ideas around good and bad and culpability and responsibility relate to intention, and that gets in the way of reasoning about the effects of our actions.
Much of my work relates to race, class, gender, bodies, and the various inequalities that surround us. I am the father of two teenage girls and I would like to do what I can to make the world a little bit better for them.
When Ben and Ryan asked me to come in and talk about what they were working on, and as I began to understand the content, scope and gravity of the statement they were attempting to make, my first thought was, "What's the intention?" So, only minutes later, when they played for me the work-in-progress demo of the piece and I heard them asking themselves that same question, in plain English, out loud, on the track, I knew I wanted to work on this.
I think that this song is obviously aimed at a white audience, and that, as someone else noted above, it's meeting that intended audience where they are at at the intro 101 level and has the potential to bring them along a step farther, and I think there's a role and a place for that. Many of the questions that the song brings up may get that audience thinking about the effects of their actions, not just their intentions. But it sounds like Macklemore himself is still mid-step in learning to focus on the effects of his actions rather than his intentions. So personal intention is still a major verbal focus of the song, and unfortunately this detracts from the effectiveness of the rest of its questioning. Someone else posted a link to the video on the difference between being non-racist and being anti-racist above (here's another link), which I strongly recommend, which is in the same framework: a person who focuses on their own intentions can be non-racist, and one can be non-racist and have only good intentions while lying in bed asleep at night. Being anti-racist, on the other hand, requires going out of your way to check on the effects of your actions to make sure that you have not led to racist effects despite good intentions, or going out of your way to find out what else you can do to help undo systemic inequities (even beyond not further adding to them, which your good intentions will mostly though not always lead to).
If we're concerned about the effects of our actions rather than our own intentions, then we're focusing on the less-heard and systematically oppressed by default. What were Macklemore's intentions in making this song? Was he, intentionally or unintentionally, using his white privilege to refocus the narrative on himself? I don't care. What I care about is: what effect is the song having? If it has no helpful, anti-racist effect, then I'm not going to have spent a lot of time thinking about a politically useless political song. If it does lead to more white people interrogating their (our) whiteness and becoming more anti-racist, then we can commend the song for it's role and usefulness, but we won't have contributed to any possible effect of replacing rather than amplifying black voices.
(On a side note: I disagree with the Pitchfork article that asserted there was no artistic merit or cohesiveness to it: what I heard was a conscious breaking of pop or modern pop-hip hop structural rules to lyrical effect. Artistically, the song is perhaps better understood within the context of spoken word poetry/lyrics or beebop. There is quite a lot of historical and current overlap between spoken word poetry and rap/hip hop, and other ways of combining words and music (see, for example, John Legend, Erykah Badu on Def Poetry Jam, Benjamin Zephaniah, etc.).)
posted by eviemath at 12:39 PM on January 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think that the Angry Jack videos (made re: gamergate) made a good point in that, in North America at least and likely many other parts of the Western world, the dominant cultural and religious ideas around good and bad and culpability and responsibility relate to intention, and that gets in the way of reasoning about the effects of our actions.
This is a really good video, thanks for the link.
posted by naju at 2:16 PM on January 23, 2016
This is a really good video, thanks for the link.
posted by naju at 2:16 PM on January 23, 2016
I hate that this discussion is turning into all about Macklemore instead of about White Privilege. 1 or 2 I don't care.
I think that this is one of the essential problems with someone like Macklemore attempting to tackle this issue, really.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 4:02 PM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think that this is one of the essential problems with someone like Macklemore attempting to tackle this issue, really.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 4:02 PM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
What I've pretty much learned from MeFi is that the safest bet is to not even touch any issues. Macklemore has gotten a lot more criticism for talking about white privilege or homosexuality than MeFi favorites like OK Go get for not talking about those subjects.
posted by Bugbread at 3:26 AM on January 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Bugbread at 3:26 AM on January 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry this shit is difficult and nothing is convenient and safe. I wish it weren't that way.
posted by naju at 4:05 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by naju at 4:05 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think that this song is obviously aimed at a white audience, and that, as someone else noted above, it's meeting that intended audience where they are at at the intro 101 level and has the potential to bring them along a step farther, and I think there's a role and a place for that. Many of the questions that the song brings up may get that audience thinking about the effects of their actions, not just their intentions. But it sounds like Macklemore himself is still mid-step in learning to focus on the effects of his actions rather than his intentions
maybe that's through necessity? i get the impression that people who are "further along" don't want to put the time or effort into addressing that audience (in fact, there's at least one post above celebrating the fact that they exclude them).
i wonder to what extent this is because there seems to be a pecking order. a cultural competitiveness to show yourself more aware than whoever you are humiliating. from outside - and mefi is a strong argument to remain outside - it all seems rather unpleasant.
or maybe this is just the natural way of things. each stratum learns from those (only slightly) above, and helps those (only slightly) below? but i don't think this is universal, and i'm not sure why it should be so here.
posted by andrewcooke at 6:46 AM on January 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
maybe that's through necessity? i get the impression that people who are "further along" don't want to put the time or effort into addressing that audience (in fact, there's at least one post above celebrating the fact that they exclude them).
i wonder to what extent this is because there seems to be a pecking order. a cultural competitiveness to show yourself more aware than whoever you are humiliating. from outside - and mefi is a strong argument to remain outside - it all seems rather unpleasant.
or maybe this is just the natural way of things. each stratum learns from those (only slightly) above, and helps those (only slightly) below? but i don't think this is universal, and i'm not sure why it should be so here.
posted by andrewcooke at 6:46 AM on January 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
What I've pretty much learned from MeFi is that the safest bet is to not even touch any issues. Macklemore has gotten a lot more criticism for talking about white privilege or homosexuality than MeFi favorites like OK Go get for not talking about those subjects.
It's a pretty common reaction among white people of my acquaintance. You could blame it on ignorance or whatever, but the funny thing is that they don't seem to be ignorant, exactly. (These are well-educated people who are broadly aware of movements like "Black Lives Matter" and world events in general.)
There seems to a be consensus that subjects like race are "high-risk" for white people to talk about: even if you do your best to say and signal the right things, you could still be in for a difficult or unpleasant conversation. And that goes double for situations with tangible ($) consequences for university, the workplace, and so forth. So they avoid the subject wherever possible.
posted by theorique at 7:04 AM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's a pretty common reaction among white people of my acquaintance. You could blame it on ignorance or whatever, but the funny thing is that they don't seem to be ignorant, exactly. (These are well-educated people who are broadly aware of movements like "Black Lives Matter" and world events in general.)
There seems to a be consensus that subjects like race are "high-risk" for white people to talk about: even if you do your best to say and signal the right things, you could still be in for a difficult or unpleasant conversation. And that goes double for situations with tangible ($) consequences for university, the workplace, and so forth. So they avoid the subject wherever possible.
posted by theorique at 7:04 AM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I've pretty much learned from MeFi is that the safest bet is to not even touch any issues
Or another lesson is that certain issues can be hard to address and you'll get feedback. As far as I can tell, nobody is saying this song shouldn't have happened. They are saying that there may have been other ways of approaching it.
posted by maxsparber at 7:08 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Or another lesson is that certain issues can be hard to address and you'll get feedback. As far as I can tell, nobody is saying this song shouldn't have happened. They are saying that there may have been other ways of approaching it.
posted by maxsparber at 7:08 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
maxsparber: "Or another lesson is that certain issues can be hard to address and you'll get feedback. As far as I can tell, nobody is saying this song shouldn't have happened. They are saying that there may have been other ways of approaching it."
I'm suspecting I just misread the tone in your original comment, which is actually the one that prompted my comment. (I interpreted your "great" as a sarcastic "great", not an actual "great") Sorry.
posted by Bugbread at 3:07 PM on January 24, 2016
I'm suspecting I just misread the tone in your original comment, which is actually the one that prompted my comment. (I interpreted your "great" as a sarcastic "great", not an actual "great") Sorry.
posted by Bugbread at 3:07 PM on January 24, 2016
I'm all for white artists addressing the issue of race -- in fact I think they must. And I don't fit a second believe there was anything disingenuous about this recording. I just think that one of the problems with privilege is that it leads to whites being heard when people of color aren't, and receiving credit for the work of people of color. And one of the best ways to address this, as has been suggested in innumerable writing by people of color, is to amplify their voices when you have the chance, which a first-person narrative like this one is going to have a hard time doing.
But it can be done. The Beastie Boys dropped so many references to their influences that sometimes it felt like their songs were simply a catalog of other artists that were worth listening to.
posted by maxsparber at 4:57 PM on January 24, 2016
But it can be done. The Beastie Boys dropped so many references to their influences that sometimes it felt like their songs were simply a catalog of other artists that were worth listening to.
posted by maxsparber at 4:57 PM on January 24, 2016
If only someone of Macklemore's visibility could release a song and video as powerful as Ty Money's "United Center", which is 2 minutes and change and leaves me speechless. "We ain't even got a trauma unit on the south side."
posted by naju at 5:13 PM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by naju at 5:13 PM on January 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Whatever, I like the guy. I think he's talented and sincere enough to address topics that are sure to get him criticized no mater what he says.
Besides... "I wear your grandpa's clothes, I look incredible!"
In your face haters! : )
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:00 AM on January 25, 2016
Besides... "I wear your grandpa's clothes, I look incredible!"
In your face haters! : )
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:00 AM on January 25, 2016
I didn't see this in here yet--statement from #BlackLivesMatter.
posted by tofu_crouton at 10:54 AM on January 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by tofu_crouton at 10:54 AM on January 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Macklemore, Ryan Lewis, & Jamila Woods in conversation with Colorlines
Macklemore & Jamila Woods talk to Audie Cornish - the (very) extended transcript is worth reading, I think - I particularly liked what Macklemore had to say about accountability.
posted by naoko at 5:51 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Macklemore & Jamila Woods talk to Audie Cornish - the (very) extended transcript is worth reading, I think - I particularly liked what Macklemore had to say about accountability.
posted by naoko at 5:51 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by Going To Maine at 11:56 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]