The science of Resting Bitch Face
February 2, 2016 6:24 PM Subscribe
“We wanted this to be fun and kind of tongue-in-cheek, but also to have legitimate scientific data backing it up, "Why are some faces seen as truly expressionless, but others are inexplicably off-putting? What, exactly, makes us register a seemingly neutral expression as RBF?" (Washington Post link.)
So some scientists decided to look into the phenomenon of RBF, scanning "neutral" expressions. For those of you not wanting to read the Post, here's the actual study link. Boiling down their findings:
(a) What the computers detected was contempt, which seemed to bring the RBF face on.
(b) “Something in the neutral expression of the face is relaying contempt, both to the software and to us.”
(c) The FaceReader program determined RBF in both men and women equally.
The scientists invite you to submit your own "neutral" facial expressions to jason@noldus.com to receive an official verdict on your own face.
Related links:
Women with RBF are better communicators--because they have to be.
"Years ago my twin sister was sent to a conflict management course after a male employee was offended by her face—literally—and her direct communication style. Following an office disagreement my sister’s coworker filed a complaint to their superiors, calling her negative and aggressive. Human Resources suggested she attend a course on conflict management for women. Ironically, the course told participants they should aim to become more assertive. No training was suggested for the male employee.
So what did my sister learn from this experience? She learned that both men and women viewed her directness and her naturally serious-looking face as too aggressive. Since “one’s perception is their truth,” she forced herself to adapt.
I’m not saying that adopting an overly cheery persona will work for everyone. Slapping a silly smile on your face all day is exhausting, just as if we had to walk around with our arms above our heads all day."
When RBF is actually just another word for social anxiety.
"But it's hard to express just how tough it is to walk around with the knowledge that how you come off to the world is so much different than how you see yourself. There's the lingering sense that all the tangled feelings of self-loathing in your head are right, that there is something wrong with you that is palpable to everyone around you, and there's nothing you can do about it."
I'm Not Mad, It's Just My RBF. (NYT)
"Dr. Anthony Youn, a cosmetic surgeon in Detroit, said that as we age, the corners of our mouths droop, causing us to look a little more grumpy — a natural response to gravity and genetics."
22 Problems All People With Resting Bitchface Will Understand:
"The stress of an important meeting and knowing you’ll have to be extra peppy to compensate.
And the exhaustion that comes after faking a smile so people don’t assume you’re angry."
17 More Accurate Names for RBF:
"Resting “Nothing’s Wrong, I Promise” Face
Resting “Just Because I’m Not Grinning From Ear to Ear Doesn’t Mean I’m Sad” Face
Resting “Please Stop Asking What’s Wrong” Face
Resting “I Don’t Think You’ve Ever Seen Me Mad If This Is What You Think Mad Looks Like” Face
Resting “This Wouldn’t Bother You If I Was a Guy” Face"
So some scientists decided to look into the phenomenon of RBF, scanning "neutral" expressions. For those of you not wanting to read the Post, here's the actual study link. Boiling down their findings:
(a) What the computers detected was contempt, which seemed to bring the RBF face on.
(b) “Something in the neutral expression of the face is relaying contempt, both to the software and to us.”
(c) The FaceReader program determined RBF in both men and women equally.
The scientists invite you to submit your own "neutral" facial expressions to jason@noldus.com to receive an official verdict on your own face.
Related links:
Women with RBF are better communicators--because they have to be.
"Years ago my twin sister was sent to a conflict management course after a male employee was offended by her face—literally—and her direct communication style. Following an office disagreement my sister’s coworker filed a complaint to their superiors, calling her negative and aggressive. Human Resources suggested she attend a course on conflict management for women. Ironically, the course told participants they should aim to become more assertive. No training was suggested for the male employee.
So what did my sister learn from this experience? She learned that both men and women viewed her directness and her naturally serious-looking face as too aggressive. Since “one’s perception is their truth,” she forced herself to adapt.
I’m not saying that adopting an overly cheery persona will work for everyone. Slapping a silly smile on your face all day is exhausting, just as if we had to walk around with our arms above our heads all day."
When RBF is actually just another word for social anxiety.
"But it's hard to express just how tough it is to walk around with the knowledge that how you come off to the world is so much different than how you see yourself. There's the lingering sense that all the tangled feelings of self-loathing in your head are right, that there is something wrong with you that is palpable to everyone around you, and there's nothing you can do about it."
I'm Not Mad, It's Just My RBF. (NYT)
"Dr. Anthony Youn, a cosmetic surgeon in Detroit, said that as we age, the corners of our mouths droop, causing us to look a little more grumpy — a natural response to gravity and genetics."
22 Problems All People With Resting Bitchface Will Understand:
"The stress of an important meeting and knowing you’ll have to be extra peppy to compensate.
And the exhaustion that comes after faking a smile so people don’t assume you’re angry."
17 More Accurate Names for RBF:
"Resting “Nothing’s Wrong, I Promise” Face
Resting “Just Because I’m Not Grinning From Ear to Ear Doesn’t Mean I’m Sad” Face
Resting “Please Stop Asking What’s Wrong” Face
Resting “I Don’t Think You’ve Ever Seen Me Mad If This Is What You Think Mad Looks Like” Face
Resting “This Wouldn’t Bother You If I Was a Guy” Face"
It's telling that the classic male example of RBF is a black man.
posted by immlass at 6:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by immlass at 6:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [34 favorites]
With some of these celebrities (like Kanye West) I think at least part of it is a calculated effort to look cool. Some people (like Batman) quickly figure out that smiling in photos doesn't work with the image they're trying to project, or that they just look dorky.
I am the RBF queen, and it sucks. I'm very tall and I just look furious all the time. When I go out dressed as a boy, I terrify people. At least when you've got RBF and you're a girl, people don't assume you're a serial killer. (I can't say how many people later told me, "You were so intimidating when I met you..." But all I did was exist!) My soul is as pink and sparky as the next drag queen's, but early on in my clubbing days I figured out I pretty much had to go for scary goth vamp, every time. If I did, I got compliments, people understood that. If I tried to go for something lighter and more fun, I just seemed to baffle people. I looked too evil for pink.
Jaime Hernandez called it Mean Eyebrows.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:44 PM on February 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
I am the RBF queen, and it sucks. I'm very tall and I just look furious all the time. When I go out dressed as a boy, I terrify people. At least when you've got RBF and you're a girl, people don't assume you're a serial killer. (I can't say how many people later told me, "You were so intimidating when I met you..." But all I did was exist!) My soul is as pink and sparky as the next drag queen's, but early on in my clubbing days I figured out I pretty much had to go for scary goth vamp, every time. If I did, I got compliments, people understood that. If I tried to go for something lighter and more fun, I just seemed to baffle people. I looked too evil for pink.
Jaime Hernandez called it Mean Eyebrows.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:44 PM on February 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men? Do we not notice the contempt cues? Do we somehow think it's justified?
posted by anotherpanacea at 6:45 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by anotherpanacea at 6:45 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white menSee my profile pic. Nobody has ever accused me of having resting bitchface per se, perhaps because I'm a guy, but people have said things to me that made it clear I have it.
posted by adamrice at 6:53 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Alternatives to "Resting Bitch Face", by Susan Harlan
Also, The Onion in 2000: Seemingly Shy Woman Really Just Stuck-Up, Friends Say
posted by Ian A.T. at 6:55 PM on February 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also, The Onion in 2000: Seemingly Shy Woman Really Just Stuck-Up, Friends Say
posted by Ian A.T. at 6:55 PM on February 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
I have come to the conclusion that it may be a real thing, but, like up talking and vocal fry, it's so inconsequential that the real reason it is discussed is as an opportunity to put down women.
posted by maxsparber at 6:57 PM on February 2, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 6:57 PM on February 2, 2016 [41 favorites]
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?
Basically it's the look you see on serial killers, and geeky guys who can't get a date. Almost every guy who sat at the back of the class in high school has heard the serial killer thing, once or twice.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:03 PM on February 2, 2016 [15 favorites]
Basically it's the look you see on serial killers, and geeky guys who can't get a date. Almost every guy who sat at the back of the class in high school has heard the serial killer thing, once or twice.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:03 PM on February 2, 2016 [15 favorites]
I apparently have the opposite (people always tell me I look friendly and happy and approachable and so on) despite having terrible social anxiety and a desire not to talk to or interact with strangers, which is its own set of problems.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:04 PM on February 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 7:04 PM on February 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
I can't name a single person in my real life who I think has this affliction. I may just be really bad at seeing it, which would not be terribly surprising to me, but I also do think that it's a thing that gets talked up to make women feel self-conscious.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:04 PM on February 2, 2016
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:04 PM on February 2, 2016
I have this as well (or rather, PEOPLE READ THIS IN MY FACE) and also I apparently read as over-the-top angry when either calmly displeased or focused and serious. I've had people FREAK OUT at me for "yelling" when I was doing nothing of the sort. It really throws them off when I'm quick with a sincere apology so we can, you know, get to the business at hand.
I do generally assume it wouldn't happen (or at least not as often) if I were a man. Recently at work someone started yelling at ME to "calm down" and I'm still a little confused as to how that happened. I was unhappy but certainly calm. Sometimes I feel like a serious woman just upsets the world order and some people just don't know how to react.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 7:05 PM on February 2, 2016 [24 favorites]
I do generally assume it wouldn't happen (or at least not as often) if I were a man. Recently at work someone started yelling at ME to "calm down" and I'm still a little confused as to how that happened. I was unhappy but certainly calm. Sometimes I feel like a serious woman just upsets the world order and some people just don't know how to react.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 7:05 PM on February 2, 2016 [24 favorites]
Metafilter: too evil for pink
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:06 PM on February 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:06 PM on February 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
I don't think anyone would say that I have a resting bitch face, because I'm a dude and the patriarchy, etc. But, I think people would probably say that I look kind of mean or irritated when really I'm just thinking about nothing at all.
posted by RustyBrooks at 7:14 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by RustyBrooks at 7:14 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
I honestly don't know if I have RBF or am just a black male in America.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:16 PM on February 2, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:16 PM on February 2, 2016 [31 favorites]
I'm that guy that points out that grammatically it should be Bitchy Resting Face, 'cause otherwise you're describing a bitchy face at rest.
But yes, patriarchy and all that, I feel bad when my female friends lament that they have BRF, and I just want society to cut that shit out so my friends can just be.
posted by numaner at 7:24 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
But yes, patriarchy and all that, I feel bad when my female friends lament that they have BRF, and I just want society to cut that shit out so my friends can just be.
posted by numaner at 7:24 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?
David Lovering of Pixies always comes to mind.
posted by mykescipark at 7:24 PM on February 2, 2016
David Lovering of Pixies always comes to mind.
posted by mykescipark at 7:24 PM on February 2, 2016
My wife's default face is "I'm going to cut you" and one of the things I love about her is that she doesn't give a shit whether you're bothered by it or not. It is quite literally not her problem.
posted by jscalzi at 7:27 PM on February 2, 2016 [64 favorites]
posted by jscalzi at 7:27 PM on February 2, 2016 [64 favorites]
> So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?
I don't know if I have the male version of RBF or what, but for my entire adult life - long before I had a job where I dealt with the public - people have been asking me if I'm okay, if anything is wrong, etc.. The difference being (for one thing) that nobody has ever told me I'd look more handsome if I gave them a smile.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:29 PM on February 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't know if I have the male version of RBF or what, but for my entire adult life - long before I had a job where I dealt with the public - people have been asking me if I'm okay, if anything is wrong, etc.. The difference being (for one thing) that nobody has ever told me I'd look more handsome if I gave them a smile.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:29 PM on February 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Heh I went to GIS "resting bitch face men" to see if there were any good examples.
Guess what.
It was all women and Kanye West. And maybe like 1 or 2 John Snows in there.
posted by RustyBrooks at 7:29 PM on February 2, 2016
Guess what.
It was all women and Kanye West. And maybe like 1 or 2 John Snows in there.
posted by RustyBrooks at 7:29 PM on February 2, 2016
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men? Do we not notice the contempt cues? Do we somehow think it's justified?
I can't say if I have *resting* bitch face or not ... because the description from the article ( a look best described as vaguely annoyed, maybe a little judgy, perhaps slightly bored) pretty much describes how I actually feel a lot of the time.
The reaction I usually get as a white guy is "dude, cheer up" or "what's wrong?"
I have this as well (or rather, PEOPLE READ THIS IN MY FACE) and also I apparently read as over-the-top angry when either calmly displeased or focused and serious. I've had people FREAK OUT at me for "yelling" when I was doing nothing of the sort. It really throws them off when I'm quick with a sincere apology so we can, you know, get to the business at hand.
I get this too, and it throws me, because I rarely yell. One time I actually recorded a confrontation with a coworker just to do a reality check on myself. And I can't explain it at all - if it's my size, or my expression, or what have you - but on the recording I'm speaking so quietly you can barely hear me, and I continually checked in with how the other guy was doing, and yet he formally complained that all I did was scream at him for five minutes.
I have black male friends who have it far worse. No matter how soft spoken they are, they get reported as 'an angry black man' after even the slightest disagreement with someone.
posted by kanewai at 7:30 PM on February 2, 2016 [14 favorites]
I can't say if I have *resting* bitch face or not ... because the description from the article ( a look best described as vaguely annoyed, maybe a little judgy, perhaps slightly bored) pretty much describes how I actually feel a lot of the time.
The reaction I usually get as a white guy is "dude, cheer up" or "what's wrong?"
I have this as well (or rather, PEOPLE READ THIS IN MY FACE) and also I apparently read as over-the-top angry when either calmly displeased or focused and serious. I've had people FREAK OUT at me for "yelling" when I was doing nothing of the sort. It really throws them off when I'm quick with a sincere apology so we can, you know, get to the business at hand.
I get this too, and it throws me, because I rarely yell. One time I actually recorded a confrontation with a coworker just to do a reality check on myself. And I can't explain it at all - if it's my size, or my expression, or what have you - but on the recording I'm speaking so quietly you can barely hear me, and I continually checked in with how the other guy was doing, and yet he formally complained that all I did was scream at him for five minutes.
I have black male friends who have it far worse. No matter how soft spoken they are, they get reported as 'an angry black man' after even the slightest disagreement with someone.
posted by kanewai at 7:30 PM on February 2, 2016 [14 favorites]
I can't name a single person in my real life who I think has this affliction.
I can. They all held customer-facing jobs during critical developmental periods.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:30 PM on February 2, 2016 [21 favorites]
I can. They all held customer-facing jobs during critical developmental periods.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:30 PM on February 2, 2016 [21 favorites]
This is why I wear slightly wacky eyeglasses. People only see those and my actual expression doesn't matter. Like those bugs with a fake face on their butts.
posted by emjaybee at 7:36 PM on February 2, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:36 PM on February 2, 2016 [56 favorites]
These celeb photos? These people really are put off and contemptuous. You stand still while paparazzi ogle you. You either love it, you goddamned narcissist, or you're like meh, whatever, I'm gonna fire my agent.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:38 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:38 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?
I'm a white dude who has had been told on more than one occasion (by a number of different people) that I walk around the office looking like I'm going to kill someone.
It only happens at work, so I'm just debugging API responses in my head and getting real angry or something. So maybe it's more of a Resting "I will fucking murder you!" Face than Bitch.
I don't have any photographic evidence, unfortunately. My profile picture shows what I look like when I notice the camera and smile.
posted by sideshow at 7:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm a white dude who has had been told on more than one occasion (by a number of different people) that I walk around the office looking like I'm going to kill someone.
It only happens at work, so I'm just debugging API responses in my head and getting real angry or something. So maybe it's more of a Resting "I will fucking murder you!" Face than Bitch.
I don't have any photographic evidence, unfortunately. My profile picture shows what I look like when I notice the camera and smile.
posted by sideshow at 7:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've had a number of friends tell me that they thought I was a scary bitch when they first met me, but the were surprised once they found out that my actual personality was nothing like that. So yea, I have a serious case of RBF. I think it often happens when a person's lower lip is fuller than the upper, the upper lip gets pushed up in the middle, and then it looks like the corners of the mouth are pointed down. Or at least that's how it manifests on my face.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 7:42 PM on February 2, 2016
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 7:42 PM on February 2, 2016
>So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?
>>Basically it's the look you see on serial killers, and geeky guys who can't get a date.
On some, maybe, but I am a 50 year old white man, and my resting expression, as it has been for at least 3 decades, is one that falls somewhere between mild exasperation, skepticism, and amused grumpiness. Which is to say, a mix, but not the most approachable mix one might imagine. But that's just the way my big beefslab of a face is made.
Thus far, I haven't gone on any murder sprees, although I will admit that I do display geeky tendencies and although happily married I have never been -- nor ever wanted to be -- on a date.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:51 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
>>Basically it's the look you see on serial killers, and geeky guys who can't get a date.
On some, maybe, but I am a 50 year old white man, and my resting expression, as it has been for at least 3 decades, is one that falls somewhere between mild exasperation, skepticism, and amused grumpiness. Which is to say, a mix, but not the most approachable mix one might imagine. But that's just the way my big beefslab of a face is made.
Thus far, I haven't gone on any murder sprees, although I will admit that I do display geeky tendencies and although happily married I have never been -- nor ever wanted to be -- on a date.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:51 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, and I guess the reason I can find it funny is one of those privilege things us old white men are having our noses rubbed in, and rightly so, these days, but I think it's amusing that so much of this thread is Guys talking about their Guy Faces.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:54 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:54 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I went to GIS "resting bitch face men" to see if there were any good examples. ... It was all women and Kanye West.
Really?? Because I got quite a cross-section of men besides Kanye. Admittedly, despite specifying "men" I did get a couple of women in the results, but it was mostly men.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:55 PM on February 2, 2016
Really?? Because I got quite a cross-section of men besides Kanye. Admittedly, despite specifying "men" I did get a couple of women in the results, but it was mostly men.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:55 PM on February 2, 2016
My sister-in-law once told me that in repose my face registers disappointment. RDF, then?
posted by misterbee at 7:58 PM on February 2, 2016
posted by misterbee at 7:58 PM on February 2, 2016
One time, I was eating a cookie before getting on the train after work. I was really into this cookie. Apparently so much so that when I made eye contact with someone walking towards me, they went "woah, sorry!" and made a big wide berth around me. But seriously, all I was thinking about was how great that cookie was in that moment.
That was how I learned I had this affliction.
My sister has it too. She appeared in a brochure for her school and thought it was hilarious that she looked like she was very angrily putting up with a group discussion.
Basically it's the look you see on serial killers, and geeky guys who can't get a date.
:(
posted by teponaztli at 7:59 PM on February 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
That was how I learned I had this affliction.
My sister has it too. She appeared in a brochure for her school and thought it was hilarious that she looked like she was very angrily putting up with a group discussion.
Basically it's the look you see on serial killers, and geeky guys who can't get a date.
:(
posted by teponaztli at 7:59 PM on February 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think I have the opposite of resting bitch face, I get approached a lot by strangers and am told I look friendly. (Not that I'm not, it's just most of the time when I'm out I'm trying to get from A-B and not really in the mood for socialising when I'm on public transport etc). Like kanewai though, I've still experienced being told I'm yelling at someone when I'm merely disagreeing with them or picking them up for insulting me - I know I can't be shouting because of where we are when these things happen (in a crowded restaurant or a library surely my 'yelling' would have garnered some attention?). Is it just a good way of playing on politeness conventions, which women are more pressured to follow, to tell a woman who's saying something you don't like they're being inappropriate?
posted by everydayanewday at 8:00 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by everydayanewday at 8:00 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's telling that the classic male example of RBF is a black man.
Not at all. I know next to nothing about Kanye West, happily, but come on -- have you seen his face? They have a little engraving of it in the dictionary for the full definition of 'meh'.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:01 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not at all. I know next to nothing about Kanye West, happily, but come on -- have you seen his face? They have a little engraving of it in the dictionary for the full definition of 'meh'.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:01 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Slapping a silly smile on your face all day is exhausting,
I have been coming to terms with this exhaustion in my own work. It is difficult and I don't know what to do with it.
posted by rebent at 8:01 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have been coming to terms with this exhaustion in my own work. It is difficult and I don't know what to do with it.
posted by rebent at 8:01 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Almost every guy who sat at the back of the class in high school has heard the serial killer thing, once or twice.
But yeah, seriously, I got that all the time. "I hear you're going to blow up the school!"
Aw, I was all primed to laugh about that, but it just reminded me of how shitty that was at the time.
:(
I mean
>:/
posted by teponaztli at 8:04 PM on February 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
But yeah, seriously, I got that all the time. "I hear you're going to blow up the school!"
Aw, I was all primed to laugh about that, but it just reminded me of how shitty that was at the time.
:(
I mean
>:/
posted by teponaztli at 8:04 PM on February 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Today is the day I must confront my resting asshole face privilege.
posted by idiopath at 8:06 PM on February 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 8:06 PM on February 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
The long-awaited poorly-subtitled sequel to Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:09 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:09 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ugh, God, and every family photo your mom is yelling at you "just smile! Make a normal expression for once!"
I am smiling, this is a normal expression for me.
>:/
posted by teponaztli at 8:10 PM on February 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
I am smiling, this is a normal expression for me.
>:/
posted by teponaztli at 8:10 PM on February 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
"I apparently have the opposite (people always tell me I look friendly and happy and approachable and so on)"
This is called "Farm Face," when absolute strangers strike up conversations with you because you look open and kind and friendly when you're thinking deep thoughts about global warming.
My husband has RBF, people are all the time asking me if he's grouchy today, and I'm like, "Oh, no, that's just his face." In his case he has kind of a naturally scowly forehead, I think that's 90% of why people read him as grouchy/angry/annoyed all the time.
I have a real farm face and I swear to God it's the eyebrows. Studies have shown that dogs and babies respond more to people with heavier eyebrows because it exaggerates the facial expressions, making them more clear, and helps direct focus to the eyes. I honestly think my face is just super-readable because of that and people interpret "readable" and "open and friendly." Again just genetics, no particular vice or virtue to it, just like RBF.
"Jaime Hernandez called it Mean Eyebrows."
Mean Eyebrows doesn't arrive until we're three whiskeys in.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:11 PM on February 2, 2016 [52 favorites]
This is called "Farm Face," when absolute strangers strike up conversations with you because you look open and kind and friendly when you're thinking deep thoughts about global warming.
My husband has RBF, people are all the time asking me if he's grouchy today, and I'm like, "Oh, no, that's just his face." In his case he has kind of a naturally scowly forehead, I think that's 90% of why people read him as grouchy/angry/annoyed all the time.
I have a real farm face and I swear to God it's the eyebrows. Studies have shown that dogs and babies respond more to people with heavier eyebrows because it exaggerates the facial expressions, making them more clear, and helps direct focus to the eyes. I honestly think my face is just super-readable because of that and people interpret "readable" and "open and friendly." Again just genetics, no particular vice or virtue to it, just like RBF.
"Jaime Hernandez called it Mean Eyebrows."
Mean Eyebrows doesn't arrive until we're three whiskeys in.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:11 PM on February 2, 2016 [52 favorites]
uhhhh does anyone else have resting existential crisis face?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:19 PM on February 2, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:19 PM on February 2, 2016 [29 favorites]
Yes, but people tend to avoid me when I'm openly grimacing.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:25 PM on February 2, 2016
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:25 PM on February 2, 2016
I was so glad when I discovered a few years ago that this was a "thing" and it had a name, and I was not alone. From when I started high school up until I finished college, I was asked at least once near the start of the semester "why was I so angry?". By the end of the term people kinda got that my face was just like that. My angry face is not easily mistaken.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:31 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:31 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
My sister has it too. She appeared in a brochure for her school and thought it was hilarious that she looked like she was very angrily putting up with a group discussion.
Yep, I'm in a presentation deck that has a screenshot of a bunch of people on a video call, and I look totally annoyed, but it's just how I look. If I'd known anyone was going to take a screenshot at that moment I would've made an effort to look different. Heh. I'm sure my default expression has affected how people perceive me. Like most people, from the earliest pictures of me, I have basically the same characteristic expression I always have, in my case just this intense, intent, kind of interested, kind of blasé look.
I will say that it's a complete blessing to work for a company now where much of the work takes place in text, whether in chat, in tickets, or in email. I'm just so much better at conveying what I mean without misunderstanding that way, to the point that the summer I was 16, I experimented with writing out a conversation in a notebook with a guy I was just getting to know, sitting there in the grass on the quad. What's nice is that when I'm in meetings now for work, it's largely in video calls, where I can continually monitor and modulate my expression. I think it's actually helping me develop a better biofeedback loop of how my face looks during conversation with people and retrain my expressions to some extent.
At least I don't have it as bad as this one girl I knew in elementary school, who just has a resting totally frowning and pissed off face. I saw her once again years later in high school, when my team played hers in soccer, and yep, she still had precisely the same expression then. Then there's my significant other; I actually have to actively ignore his expressions sometimes when we're having an intense discussion, because he often looks completely, disproportionately upset and grimacing mad when he's really just mildly annoyed. His microexpressions are just off the charts sometimes. He truly wears his heart on his sleeve. In fact, the first time I recall interacting with him, he glared at me—though as he told me later, he actually was glaring at me. So you know, sometimes it's real. Heh.
posted by limeonaire at 8:32 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yep, I'm in a presentation deck that has a screenshot of a bunch of people on a video call, and I look totally annoyed, but it's just how I look. If I'd known anyone was going to take a screenshot at that moment I would've made an effort to look different. Heh. I'm sure my default expression has affected how people perceive me. Like most people, from the earliest pictures of me, I have basically the same characteristic expression I always have, in my case just this intense, intent, kind of interested, kind of blasé look.
I will say that it's a complete blessing to work for a company now where much of the work takes place in text, whether in chat, in tickets, or in email. I'm just so much better at conveying what I mean without misunderstanding that way, to the point that the summer I was 16, I experimented with writing out a conversation in a notebook with a guy I was just getting to know, sitting there in the grass on the quad. What's nice is that when I'm in meetings now for work, it's largely in video calls, where I can continually monitor and modulate my expression. I think it's actually helping me develop a better biofeedback loop of how my face looks during conversation with people and retrain my expressions to some extent.
At least I don't have it as bad as this one girl I knew in elementary school, who just has a resting totally frowning and pissed off face. I saw her once again years later in high school, when my team played hers in soccer, and yep, she still had precisely the same expression then. Then there's my significant other; I actually have to actively ignore his expressions sometimes when we're having an intense discussion, because he often looks completely, disproportionately upset and grimacing mad when he's really just mildly annoyed. His microexpressions are just off the charts sometimes. He truly wears his heart on his sleeve. In fact, the first time I recall interacting with him, he glared at me—though as he told me later, he actually was glaring at me. So you know, sometimes it's real. Heh.
posted by limeonaire at 8:32 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, I'm interested. I have asked women (and men) who I only know semi well "are you alright". "I'm fine" is the normal response, but occasionally I get an explanation of RBF or similar.
Of course it is never OK to ask someone to smile. (smiling is a sign of weakness), but is it OK to ask those of you with RBF "are you alright" at least until I know that you have this characteristic?
I'd like to show compassion for those around me, and it seems hard to split this difference.
posted by poe at 8:38 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Of course it is never OK to ask someone to smile. (smiling is a sign of weakness), but is it OK to ask those of you with RBF "are you alright" at least until I know that you have this characteristic?
I'd like to show compassion for those around me, and it seems hard to split this difference.
posted by poe at 8:38 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hmm. "How's it going?" or "How ya doing?" might be more neutral ways to assess this.
posted by limeonaire at 8:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 8:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Did I miss something? Humans made the software and labeled these data points as "sad" and "comtempt." Why is it surprising that a computer shares an opinion with its creator?
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:43 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:43 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fair. "How's it going" from now on.
posted by poe at 8:45 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by poe at 8:45 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?
Apparently it looks like I’m mean, scary, angry, all of the above. I’ve been told this my whole life.
The difference being (for one thing) that nobody has ever told me I'd look more handsome if I gave them a smile.
Ah, was actually going to say something about this. I have heard this my whole life as well from random people just walking up to me. Apparently those are the ones that didn’t think I was too scary or mean. I heard it a lot more when I was younger, it seemed like every time I left the house, and I’m pretty sure it was mostly women so there was often probably flirting involved that I wasn’t picking up on or in the mood for. I could never figure out why people were always telling other people to smile, but I tried to not be a dick about it, even though it was annoying as hell. Especially when you really are pissed off and depressed.
I've never minded people asking me if I was alright, still annoying, but I knew it was a honest question. I’ve been asked if I was alright back when I was very not alright, and it was helpful.
posted by bongo_x at 8:46 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Apparently it looks like I’m mean, scary, angry, all of the above. I’ve been told this my whole life.
The difference being (for one thing) that nobody has ever told me I'd look more handsome if I gave them a smile.
Ah, was actually going to say something about this. I have heard this my whole life as well from random people just walking up to me. Apparently those are the ones that didn’t think I was too scary or mean. I heard it a lot more when I was younger, it seemed like every time I left the house, and I’m pretty sure it was mostly women so there was often probably flirting involved that I wasn’t picking up on or in the mood for. I could never figure out why people were always telling other people to smile, but I tried to not be a dick about it, even though it was annoying as hell. Especially when you really are pissed off and depressed.
I've never minded people asking me if I was alright, still annoying, but I knew it was a honest question. I’ve been asked if I was alright back when I was very not alright, and it was helpful.
posted by bongo_x at 8:46 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Part of the problem is that people would rather think they are mind-readers and can detect gaslighting when people say they are just fine, rather than give people the benefit of the doubt regarding their expression in the first place or take them at their word. If we can practice doing a lot more of the latter than the former, the world would be a happier place in more ways than one. A lot of pushback from people against this particular "affliction" reveals that it makes them feel insecure, which I think is telling.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:58 PM on February 2, 2016
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:58 PM on February 2, 2016
Kanye explains:
“Back when I was working on ‘Yeezus,’ I saw this book from the 1800s and it was velvet-covered with brass and everything. I looked at all these people’s photos and they look so real and their outfits were incredible and they weren’t smiling and people – you know, the paparazzi – always come up to me, ‘Why you not smiling?’ and I think, not smiling makes me smile… When you see paintings in an old castle, people are not smiling ’cause it just wouldn’t look as cool.”
posted by gngstrMNKY at 9:07 PM on February 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
“Back when I was working on ‘Yeezus,’ I saw this book from the 1800s and it was velvet-covered with brass and everything. I looked at all these people’s photos and they look so real and their outfits were incredible and they weren’t smiling and people – you know, the paparazzi – always come up to me, ‘Why you not smiling?’ and I think, not smiling makes me smile… When you see paintings in an old castle, people are not smiling ’cause it just wouldn’t look as cool.”
posted by gngstrMNKY at 9:07 PM on February 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?
CEO?
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 9:13 PM on February 2, 2016
CEO?
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 9:13 PM on February 2, 2016
When you see paintings in an old castle, people are not smiling ’cause it just wouldn’t look as cool.
Resting I ate the plums you were saving for breakfast face.
posted by bukvich at 9:14 PM on February 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
Resting I ate the plums you were saving for breakfast face.
posted by bukvich at 9:14 PM on February 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'm surprised the authors didn't talk about the concept of overfitting - the human brain is hyper-attuned to reading faces. To the point where we see faces in everything. But to quote the wikipedia page:
Overfitting generally occurs when a model is excessively complex, such as having too many parameters relative to the number of observations. A model that has been overfit will generally have poor predictive performance, as it can exaggerate minor fluctuations in the data.
We read in so many data points and have such limited training data that we inevitably come to wrong conclusions.
Personally I think realizing that RBF is a phenomenon that exists is actually a pretty big deal. Like I literally think about coworkers - especially women - completely differently if I just say "well, maybe it's RBF honestly I have no idea what they're thinking" because I really do look at coworkers and wonder why they're so uptight. And then I realize it's just this narrative I assigned to them based on their facial expression and then I move along.
posted by GuyZero at 9:49 PM on February 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Overfitting generally occurs when a model is excessively complex, such as having too many parameters relative to the number of observations. A model that has been overfit will generally have poor predictive performance, as it can exaggerate minor fluctuations in the data.
We read in so many data points and have such limited training data that we inevitably come to wrong conclusions.
Personally I think realizing that RBF is a phenomenon that exists is actually a pretty big deal. Like I literally think about coworkers - especially women - completely differently if I just say "well, maybe it's RBF honestly I have no idea what they're thinking" because I really do look at coworkers and wonder why they're so uptight. And then I realize it's just this narrative I assigned to them based on their facial expression and then I move along.
posted by GuyZero at 9:49 PM on February 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Metafilter: Like those bugs with a fake face on their butts.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 10:04 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 10:04 PM on February 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well...I guess it's better than having Resting O Face.
-o-
posted by sexyrobot at 10:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
-o-
posted by sexyrobot at 10:40 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm super short-sighted and avoided wearing my glasses for a long time and even when I did wear them, and eventually contact lenses, I was always a bit squinty so consequently I've got a super deep wrinkle between my eyes from squinting. Then I had a really bad time for about 10 years which made me cry a lot so I developed the muscles around my squint line to the point where it's almost Klingon-ish (which I quite like, actually).
All this is to say that I have a spectacular RBF, which doesn't really bother me except when people presume that I'm an unpleasant person and even then people are always presuming things based on false evidence so eh, what am I going to do about it? Squint harder, probably.
posted by h00py at 10:52 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
All this is to say that I have a spectacular RBF, which doesn't really bother me except when people presume that I'm an unpleasant person and even then people are always presuming things based on false evidence so eh, what am I going to do about it? Squint harder, probably.
posted by h00py at 10:52 PM on February 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you're going to use computers to analyze RBF the least you could do would be to use radial basis functions to do it.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:22 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:22 PM on February 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also, and I guess the reason I can find it funny is one of those privilege things us old white men are having our noses rubbed in, and rightly so, these days, but I think it's amusing that so much of this thread is Guys talking about their Guy Faces.To be fair, one of the many privileges of RDF (Resting Dad Face) is that people just ask for your fucking opinion all the time. Like looking slightly exasperated makes you some sort of genius.
So, what does this facial tendency look like on white men?As I said above, I call it Dad Face. It's Easy mode if you're in any position of leadership. So considering you said white men it's Easy mode within Easy mode.
Would i prefer not to have Dad Face? Fuck no. I've had to go back like 20 years to find a situation where I've regretted having it. So compared to RBF it's another entry in the Great Big Book of How Do You Women Put Up With This Shit
Now on to the woe is me me me me me bit :)
Once I had a girlfriend who was the sweetest, kindest most generous human I've ever met.
We were lying in bed one morning and she said she had something to tell me.
So there's the sinking feeling as even at that young age I knew what that meant.
She explains that she ran into her ex and when he asked what she was doing she didn't say I was her boyfriend but a friend and this has made her guilty and it was eating her up.
I'm like woah, don't feel bad we've only just got together and you were with him for ages it's ok. I was mortified she was feeling guilty and asked if she wants to cool off or step back and maybe we should have the talk about what this is.
Can you leave please, she says.
Ummm, of course. I'm starting to get a bit weirded out now.
Please leave.
So I get dressed and go home with a young head full of wtf just happened, I assume she was just breaking up with me in a slightly immature way and left her to do her thing.
So later that day she comes to my place as "we need to talk" and it's over at this point but with this weird confused air like it was a game or something. We split up and she doesn't leave which is just frying my brain and she seems as confused as I am.
So I ask, what was this morning all about? We went from making love to "Leave now" in like 10 minutes. I told her I totally get she's not over her ex and it's cool but the ending was just weird.
She said "When we were talking the look on your face terrified me"
I cried for a week over that.
posted by fullerine at 11:58 PM on February 2, 2016 [21 favorites]
Yeah, I have male grouchy resting face too. I've heard the whole "cheer up" and "what are you angry about" thing my whole life.
It sucks that it has to be that way, but my solution has been to make a habit of smiling more when at rest. Again, this shouldn't be my responsibility, and I totally understand people who say "fuck that", but it's done wonders for me, with how people treat me, first impressions, approaching women, professional relationships, etc.
Note that I'm generally comfortable giving this advice to men who have RBF, not women, though. Women with RBF read as "bitches", but men with RBF read as "serial killers" or "introverts getting ready for a workplace shooting", and, well, I don't really want to go around projecting an image that I'm a potential murderer.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:36 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
It sucks that it has to be that way, but my solution has been to make a habit of smiling more when at rest. Again, this shouldn't be my responsibility, and I totally understand people who say "fuck that", but it's done wonders for me, with how people treat me, first impressions, approaching women, professional relationships, etc.
Note that I'm generally comfortable giving this advice to men who have RBF, not women, though. Women with RBF read as "bitches", but men with RBF read as "serial killers" or "introverts getting ready for a workplace shooting", and, well, I don't really want to go around projecting an image that I'm a potential murderer.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:36 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
She said "When we were talking the look on your face terrified me"
Story of my life, both when I was living as a guy and vote that in living as a woman. It's probably the most common cause of arguments in my life, people assuming I have nothing but utter contempt for them because that's just how my face looks a lot of the time and I have no idea how to not do that, really.
I used to work in a supermarket, and had guys approach me and try to start a fight or tell me to off myself or threaten me with violence several times when I was just minding my own business stacking shelves. No idea if they read me as male or female in most cases, but there were at least a couple of both.
posted by Dysk at 2:30 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Story of my life, both when I was living as a guy and vote that in living as a woman. It's probably the most common cause of arguments in my life, people assuming I have nothing but utter contempt for them because that's just how my face looks a lot of the time and I have no idea how to not do that, really.
I used to work in a supermarket, and had guys approach me and try to start a fight or tell me to off myself or threaten me with violence several times when I was just minding my own business stacking shelves. No idea if they read me as male or female in most cases, but there were at least a couple of both.
posted by Dysk at 2:30 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
As an aside, what the hell is up with this line in the article: "FaceReader, being a piece of software and therefore immune to gender bias"?
Seriously?
posted by vernondalhart at 2:49 AM on February 3, 2016 [28 favorites]
Seriously?
posted by vernondalhart at 2:49 AM on February 3, 2016 [28 favorites]
I’m sure I remember reading an article about RBF being associated with depression / anxiety, but I can’t find it now. (Not social anxiety specifically, but anxiety in general.)
posted by pharm at 3:29 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by pharm at 3:29 AM on February 3, 2016
I only wish I had Resting Bitch Face. I have Crazy Involuntary Blinks and Eyebrow Waggles face. It makes people think I'm purposely giving them a wacky look. I know this because they do it back at me, matching wacky look to wacky look, which horrifies me and forces me to then scowl back at them as I try to rein in my lids and brows. Arghh. I'm tempted to Botox everything.
posted by pracowity at 4:19 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 4:19 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm a white dude who has had been told on more than one occasion (by a number of different people) that I walk around the office looking like I'm going to kill someone.
Oh god, this. Apparently when I'm deep in thought about software design or that movie I watched last night or kittens or whatever, my neutral expression broadcasts "if you talk to me, I will cut you".
My wife, meanwhile, has "what a friendly store employee" face. She can be standing at a checkout line with a cart full of groceries, waiting to pay, and people still walk up to her and assume she works there and can tell them what aisle the batteries are in.
posted by tocts at 4:25 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh god, this. Apparently when I'm deep in thought about software design or that movie I watched last night or kittens or whatever, my neutral expression broadcasts "if you talk to me, I will cut you".
My wife, meanwhile, has "what a friendly store employee" face. She can be standing at a checkout line with a cart full of groceries, waiting to pay, and people still walk up to her and assume she works there and can tell them what aisle the batteries are in.
posted by tocts at 4:25 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Part of the problem is that people would rather think they are mind-readers and can detect gaslighting when people say they are just fine, rather than give people the benefit of the doubt regarding their expression in the first place or take them at their word.
I never know how much to take people at their word about this.
I've never had RBF, but I have had the opposite, where I look so friendly that people will regularly come up and talk to me in public (I was always surprised!). That lasted a few years but is no longer the case, and I think it had to do with my overall emotional tenor at the time: I mostly was feeling happy and open and friendly, and all that stayed on my face even on bad days.
So I guess I'm often tempted to read other people this way too, that someone's resting face has some information about what's going on with them, maybe on the scale of months or years. (Of course, unless they're a close friend, whatever it is is probably none of my business.)
Reading this thread is making me less confident in this interpretation though.
posted by gold-in-green at 4:29 AM on February 3, 2016
I never know how much to take people at their word about this.
I've never had RBF, but I have had the opposite, where I look so friendly that people will regularly come up and talk to me in public (I was always surprised!). That lasted a few years but is no longer the case, and I think it had to do with my overall emotional tenor at the time: I mostly was feeling happy and open and friendly, and all that stayed on my face even on bad days.
So I guess I'm often tempted to read other people this way too, that someone's resting face has some information about what's going on with them, maybe on the scale of months or years. (Of course, unless they're a close friend, whatever it is is probably none of my business.)
Reading this thread is making me less confident in this interpretation though.
posted by gold-in-green at 4:29 AM on February 3, 2016
That social anxiety article is the bomb. Thanks for posting this.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 4:38 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by Sheydem-tants at 4:38 AM on February 3, 2016
I don't think I have RBF, but I do have the opposite where I look nice and approachable, but all it does is mask the social anxiety and shyness I have. I wish I were as confident as my nice face appears but I really just use it to feel normal.
posted by Kitteh at 4:39 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by Kitteh at 4:39 AM on February 3, 2016
I have the weird combination of RBF (resting bored face--not good for an academic who listens to a lot of boring talks) and making eye contact with strangers on the street. I always get asked for directions or approached by crazy people.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:44 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:44 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's an episode of Deep Space Nine in which Quark refers to Worf as a "walking frown", and I'm like, yep, that's me. (In a past library job, I had a patron actually demand that I smile before they would ask a question, and I honestly replied, "Why?")
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:53 AM on February 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:53 AM on February 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have a real farm face and I swear to God it's the eyebrows.
I wonder! I have pretty strong "farm face" too (love that term, I've been calling it resting beam face), but I also have a slightly lopsided face. One eye & eyebrow are just a touch higher than the other, giving me a sort of off-kilter look. I've never made the connection but it makes sense.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 5:02 AM on February 3, 2016
I wonder! I have pretty strong "farm face" too (love that term, I've been calling it resting beam face), but I also have a slightly lopsided face. One eye & eyebrow are just a touch higher than the other, giving me a sort of off-kilter look. I've never made the connection but it makes sense.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 5:02 AM on February 3, 2016
Another thing I've notice with my husband's RBF is that while his habitual scowl hasn't changed, when he was in his early 20s, people constantly thought he was angry and ready to take a swing at someone. Now that he's almost 40, people read the same scowl as "stern." They still think he's unreasonably grouchy, but a grouchy 20-year-old man is apparently far more threatening than a 40-year-old one, which is its own interesting set of social assumptions.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:07 AM on February 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:07 AM on February 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
I know a couple of people (one female, one male) with whatever the opposite of RBF is; they both always look unremittingly cheerful. The guy in particular probably sprains his face if he tries to frown.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:14 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:14 AM on February 3, 2016
This is why I wear slightly wacky eyeglasses. People only see those and my actual expression doesn't matter. Like those bugs with a fake face on their butts.
I know it's not what you meant, but now I am picturing someone going around with a big pair of colorful glasses frames on their butt to confuse office predators.
I had a girlfriend who had a quintessential RBF. In her case it went along with being slightly standoffish, so from what the article says people were likely reading contempt both in her face and in her body language. We broke up for other reasons, but people's reactions to her made all kinds of interactions more difficult, and I can see how this is something that could shadow and affect a person's life.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:28 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know it's not what you meant, but now I am picturing someone going around with a big pair of colorful glasses frames on their butt to confuse office predators.
I had a girlfriend who had a quintessential RBF. In her case it went along with being slightly standoffish, so from what the article says people were likely reading contempt both in her face and in her body language. We broke up for other reasons, but people's reactions to her made all kinds of interactions more difficult, and I can see how this is something that could shadow and affect a person's life.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:28 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
When I see my own reflection I'm often surprised at how grumpy I look. Sometimes even when I think I'm smiling, I just look like I think the world is being ridiculous and needs to stop. It takes a conscious effort and maybe a mirror to make sure I'm doing it correctly.
And my face turns red(der) when I laugh, which also doesn't help.
posted by Foosnark at 5:35 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
And my face turns red(der) when I laugh, which also doesn't help.
posted by Foosnark at 5:35 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
RBF, cishet woman, over 40 on a 30something team, and remote worker here. I have had comments made about my "sour face" in (alleged) business meetings after laughing and smiling frequently during said meetings. The irony here is that the person making the comments has a lot of not so well repressed anger.
Finally I delivered on my face's promise a while back, in a small, essentially harmless, but noticeable way. Nothing like living down to expectations. I'm still at the company for now. :-)
A lot of people need to turn off the projector.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 5:39 AM on February 3, 2016
Finally I delivered on my face's promise a while back, in a small, essentially harmless, but noticeable way. Nothing like living down to expectations. I'm still at the company for now. :-)
A lot of people need to turn off the projector.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 5:39 AM on February 3, 2016
.. I know I can't be shouting because of where we are when these things happen (in a crowded restaurant or a library surely my 'yelling' would have garnered some attention?).Is it just a good way of playing on politeness conventions, which women are more pressured to follow, to tell a woman who's saying something you don't like they're being inappropriate?
Yes most definitely.
It's also good to realize that people don't necessarily use the word "yelling" meaning that you're talking loudly or shouting. It has more that tone changes, talking speed is escalated, and there's a forcefulness behind the pronunciations. A perceived anger, disrespect, or contempt is generally the "emotional tone" of the speech.
My anecdotal evidence: I've had quite a few friends who get the "stop yelling", and a lot of them are actually "yellers" without realizing it. I had one male friend for many years who would literally shout and didn't think he did. But again, like most things in the world, women get the short end of the stick and I've seen many more false accusations of this against women then men.
posted by mayonnaises at 5:55 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes most definitely.
It's also good to realize that people don't necessarily use the word "yelling" meaning that you're talking loudly or shouting. It has more that tone changes, talking speed is escalated, and there's a forcefulness behind the pronunciations. A perceived anger, disrespect, or contempt is generally the "emotional tone" of the speech.
My anecdotal evidence: I've had quite a few friends who get the "stop yelling", and a lot of them are actually "yellers" without realizing it. I had one male friend for many years who would literally shout and didn't think he did. But again, like most things in the world, women get the short end of the stick and I've seen many more false accusations of this against women then men.
posted by mayonnaises at 5:55 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've always thought of this byline picture as the prime example.
When we lived in the UK my wife and I liked to joke that any media figure who was able to project warmth on camera - or at least suppress the baleful glare or the more prevalent vaguely uncomfortable look - was immediately given a panel show.
posted by theory at 6:03 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
When we lived in the UK my wife and I liked to joke that any media figure who was able to project warmth on camera - or at least suppress the baleful glare or the more prevalent vaguely uncomfortable look - was immediately given a panel show.
posted by theory at 6:03 AM on February 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Got more than a touch of this myself, and I am a white guy. Apparently I look impatient and bored. I have learned to counteract it to some degree, but before I did -- when still in my twenties -- I got canned from a band or two and at least one more conventional job because I was "always looking at my watch." I hadn't worn a watch in years, but people attributed the watch and then my resigned glances at it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:19 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:19 AM on February 3, 2016
I've come to love my RBF; I have photographic evidence proving that as early as age 4, I've had that look.
On a work trip to Birmingham Alabama about 15 years ago; every person I had contact with, from the restaurant hostess to the clerk ringing up my magazine purchase, asked me quite sincerely what was wrong. That was amusing and more than a little weird.
posted by xena at 6:57 AM on February 3, 2016
On a work trip to Birmingham Alabama about 15 years ago; every person I had contact with, from the restaurant hostess to the clerk ringing up my magazine purchase, asked me quite sincerely what was wrong. That was amusing and more than a little weird.
posted by xena at 6:57 AM on February 3, 2016
I'm happy to have discovered that there is at least one other person besides myself who is happily married and has never been on a date. (although the date part might be a result of my resting face)
This is so my tribe.
posted by MtDewd at 7:04 AM on February 3, 2016
This is so my tribe.
posted by MtDewd at 7:04 AM on February 3, 2016
My high school senior portrait has been described as "only missing your middle finger" which I found delightful then and now.
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:07 AM on February 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:07 AM on February 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm a white guy. In my twenties, I had pretty much the exact opposite of RBF - I had Resting Naive Gullible Person Face. Beggars used to hit me up for spare change all the time. I used to get way more respect on the telephone than in person.
As I've gotten older, I no longer look as naive, for which I am grateful.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 7:08 AM on February 3, 2016
As I've gotten older, I no longer look as naive, for which I am grateful.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 7:08 AM on February 3, 2016
My dad is/was a photographer, and since I pointed it out, my mom has become famous (in my family) for the RBF. The RBF + smoke was over the top. The RBF with another RBF (her sister in law/my aunt) in the shot with six or seven empty wine glasses was totally epic.
The older I get the more I appreciate Dad's eye for the ludicrous. In the picture I'm mentioning, there are two people and four lit cigarettes. 1978 for the win.
posted by Sphinx at 7:10 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
The older I get the more I appreciate Dad's eye for the ludicrous. In the picture I'm mentioning, there are two people and four lit cigarettes. 1978 for the win.
posted by Sphinx at 7:10 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Eyebrows McGee: "Another thing I've notice with my husband's RBF is that while his habitual scowl hasn't changed, when he was in his early 20s, people constantly thought he was angry and ready to take a swing at someone. Now that he's almost 40, people read the same scowl as "stern.""
The same with my dad. His RBF comes from a brow furrow more than a downturned mouth, so he went from looking angry when I was a kid to looking deep in contemplation now.
posted by Bugbread at 7:22 AM on February 3, 2016
The same with my dad. His RBF comes from a brow furrow more than a downturned mouth, so he went from looking angry when I was a kid to looking deep in contemplation now.
posted by Bugbread at 7:22 AM on February 3, 2016
The first white guy with RBF that comes to mind is Tom Hardy.
But because he's a white dude it reads more as tough and cool and badass, of course.
posted by Windigo at 7:34 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
But because he's a white dude it reads more as tough and cool and badass, of course.
posted by Windigo at 7:34 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Another thing I've notice with my husband's RBF is that while his habitual scowl hasn't changed, when he was in his early 20s, people constantly thought he was angry and ready to take a swing at someone. Now that he's almost 40, people read the same scowl as "stern.""
I'm just realizing that this describes me as well, though I think to a lesser degree. It's never been described as RBF which I should chalk up to being male/patriarchy, sorry about that.
Sometime in my later 20's I realized that I was furrowing my brow most of the time and I needed to relax a bit and my expression looked a lot more neutral. So now I don't look like I'm walking around scowling all the time. But it DOES come in handy now that it's a thing that I'm aware of and can control. I'm usually a pretty pleasant guy but if someone starts to test my patience, I can fold my arms and furrow my brow and that usually puts an end to whatever nonsense is happening (usually a customer service rep with their head up their ass).
A stern look and a purposeful stride will usually keep people from bugging you when navigating through a crowd.
posted by VTX at 8:20 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm just realizing that this describes me as well, though I think to a lesser degree. It's never been described as RBF which I should chalk up to being male/patriarchy, sorry about that.
Sometime in my later 20's I realized that I was furrowing my brow most of the time and I needed to relax a bit and my expression looked a lot more neutral. So now I don't look like I'm walking around scowling all the time. But it DOES come in handy now that it's a thing that I'm aware of and can control. I'm usually a pretty pleasant guy but if someone starts to test my patience, I can fold my arms and furrow my brow and that usually puts an end to whatever nonsense is happening (usually a customer service rep with their head up their ass).
A stern look and a purposeful stride will usually keep people from bugging you when navigating through a crowd.
posted by VTX at 8:20 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is RBF avoidance why Hillary always has that insipid, occasionally inappropriate grin on her face during debates? It's odd as hell to hear Bernie assailing her ties to Wall Street and see her smiling away like he's telling a hilarious story. Alternatively, it looks super condescending, like "Oh, aren't you cute, trying to express ideas and everything!" But it mainly looks as if she's trying to deny hostile photographers a chance to snap a gotcha! pic of her as a Scowling Woman.
posted by the sobsister at 10:10 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by the sobsister at 10:10 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd not heard of RBF, but now that I think of
it, Ron Swanson. Ron Swanson all the time he isn't drunk at the Snakehole Lounge or shopping at Food 'n Stuff.
posted by zippy at 10:22 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
it, Ron Swanson. Ron Swanson all the time he isn't drunk at the Snakehole Lounge or shopping at Food 'n Stuff.
posted by zippy at 10:22 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Long before RBF was a Thing, I looked at a series of candid photos of me and said OMG, I look "mean in repose". I think people take it as standoffish, which is exacerbated by social anxiety. Oh well.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 10:29 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 10:29 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have Overthinking a Plate of Bean Face (OPBF) so this really hits home.
posted by SageLeVoid at 10:46 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by SageLeVoid at 10:46 AM on February 3, 2016
uhhhh does anyone else have resting existential crisis face?
Kind of-- my genetics mean that no matter how much I try to make my eyebrows arch correctly, by the end of the day they are inevitably shaped like this. Sometimes I furiously try to shove them into a less plaintive shape multiple times a day, to no avail.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:56 AM on February 3, 2016
Kind of-- my genetics mean that no matter how much I try to make my eyebrows arch correctly, by the end of the day they are inevitably shaped like this. Sometimes I furiously try to shove them into a less plaintive shape multiple times a day, to no avail.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:56 AM on February 3, 2016
RBF is such a fundamental part of my life (see profile photo) that people who know me well are amused (or spooked) when I'm actively trying to *not* have it. Or, as my kid calls it, "that thing you do with your face when you don't know people very well."
I'm also one of the apparently relatively few female Mefites who has never gotten much unwanted attention in public places, ever. I haven't always been old and fat...but I've always had RBF.
posted by gnomeloaf at 10:58 AM on February 3, 2016
I'm also one of the apparently relatively few female Mefites who has never gotten much unwanted attention in public places, ever. I haven't always been old and fat...but I've always had RBF.
posted by gnomeloaf at 10:58 AM on February 3, 2016
The reaction I usually get as a white guy is "dude, cheer up" or "what's wrong?"
Ditto, though as proof that this is so often a power thing I can say that I hear a lot less about it at 45 than I did at 15. At 15 it was all the time reassuring people, no, not pissed or upset and nothing is wrong. The more I got into adulthood the less this happened. Some of that is learning I can't interact or be present with other people without flexing my smile muscles up just a hint, but I it's mostly that people stopped feeling they had the right to demand knowledge of my mood or insist I change it.
Which is why it is a topic of conversation about grown women way more than it is grown men: culturally we have decided we all have a say in their bodies. Now that I'm a work-from-home borderline hermit I don't have conversations much with people who don't know better, but I have had in the past to say "if you know that's just how her face is, why are you saying judgy things about it?" Why is talking about someone's RBF okay to some people who wouldn't call someone a "pizza face?"
posted by phearlez at 10:58 AM on February 3, 2016
Ditto, though as proof that this is so often a power thing I can say that I hear a lot less about it at 45 than I did at 15. At 15 it was all the time reassuring people, no, not pissed or upset and nothing is wrong. The more I got into adulthood the less this happened. Some of that is learning I can't interact or be present with other people without flexing my smile muscles up just a hint, but I it's mostly that people stopped feeling they had the right to demand knowledge of my mood or insist I change it.
Which is why it is a topic of conversation about grown women way more than it is grown men: culturally we have decided we all have a say in their bodies. Now that I'm a work-from-home borderline hermit I don't have conversations much with people who don't know better, but I have had in the past to say "if you know that's just how her face is, why are you saying judgy things about it?" Why is talking about someone's RBF okay to some people who wouldn't call someone a "pizza face?"
posted by phearlez at 10:58 AM on February 3, 2016
Wow, Kanye is stupid...the reason people didn't smile in old photographs is because the exposure took a long time, not because they were trying to look cool.
Don't be offended by people's faces, and definitely don't tell them, especially women, to smile.
posted by agregoli at 11:10 AM on February 3, 2016
Don't be offended by people's faces, and definitely don't tell them, especially women, to smile.
posted by agregoli at 11:10 AM on February 3, 2016
Wow, Kanye is stupid...the reason people didn't smile in old photographs is because the exposure took a long time, not because they were trying to look cool.
Don't be offended by people's faces, and definitely don't tell them, especially women, to smile.
posted by agregoli
Actually he's right, and exposure times for photographs were less than a minute by the 1840s, and shorter as time went on.
posted by annieb at 11:44 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't be offended by people's faces, and definitely don't tell them, especially women, to smile.
posted by agregoli
Actually he's right, and exposure times for photographs were less than a minute by the 1840s, and shorter as time went on.
posted by annieb at 11:44 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
But because he's a white dude it reads more as tough and cool and badass, of course.
A stern look and a purposeful stride will usually keep people from bugging you when navigating through a crowd.
I'd bet there are a substantial number of guys who cultivate this to some degree to deal with perceived threatening environments. I think mine started in middle school.
posted by sapere aude at 11:47 AM on February 3, 2016
A stern look and a purposeful stride will usually keep people from bugging you when navigating through a crowd.
I'd bet there are a substantial number of guys who cultivate this to some degree to deal with perceived threatening environments. I think mine started in middle school.
posted by sapere aude at 11:47 AM on February 3, 2016
Late to the party, but I think I have the most epic RBF, and it's genetic!
Hopefully that link works, can't load Imgur pages at work. That's me and my mom on my wedding day. I only remember being SUPER happy all day, but evidently RBF can strike anywhere, at anytime!
posted by sharp pointy objects at 11:53 AM on February 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Hopefully that link works, can't load Imgur pages at work. That's me and my mom on my wedding day. I only remember being SUPER happy all day, but evidently RBF can strike anywhere, at anytime!
posted by sharp pointy objects at 11:53 AM on February 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'd bet there are a substantial number of guys who cultivate this to some degree to deal with perceived threatening environments. I think mine started in middle school.
You're not wrong but I picked it up (as did my wife) working retail in our late teens/early twenties during Christmas season. It's either that or you end up taking two hours to walk across the store (either helping customers or explaining that you can't help them right now) while trying to help someone or otherwise take care of something that can't wait.
So in my personal experience at least, this one aspect is not at all gendered in this one specific context.
posted by VTX at 12:02 PM on February 3, 2016
You're not wrong but I picked it up (as did my wife) working retail in our late teens/early twenties during Christmas season. It's either that or you end up taking two hours to walk across the store (either helping customers or explaining that you can't help them right now) while trying to help someone or otherwise take care of something that can't wait.
So in my personal experience at least, this one aspect is not at all gendered in this one specific context.
posted by VTX at 12:02 PM on February 3, 2016
I wonder to what degree this is mitigated in men by the ability to grow a beard. Women would still get it more anyway, of course -- why is it called resting *bitch* face? well you see it's nothing personal we just hate women -- but it seems to me like a full beard allows men to cover up some of the slight tics and crinkles and corners that communicate barely-concealed contempt, kind of the same way that men use beards to conceal baby faces.
posted by Errant at 12:49 PM on February 3, 2016
posted by Errant at 12:49 PM on February 3, 2016
guilty on both counts, when beardless I am basically an angry infant
posted by idiopath at 12:57 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by idiopath at 12:57 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
My resting bitch face surfaced at eight months. As you can see from my profile photo, nothing's changed since.
posted by culfinglin at 1:24 PM on February 3, 2016
posted by culfinglin at 1:24 PM on February 3, 2016
The first white guy with RBF that comes to mind is Tom Hardy.
The problem with his face in those pictures is there are no dogs in the picture with him. So he has less of a RBF and more of a "I could be petting a dog right now but I'm not" face.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:59 PM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
The problem with his face in those pictures is there are no dogs in the picture with him. So he has less of a RBF and more of a "I could be petting a dog right now but I'm not" face.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:59 PM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have the male version of this and have worked quite hard to raise the sides of my eyes, gently smile, and generally soften my face in public to the point where it's pretty much automatic. Maybe the "proper" response is to ignore it and say, "Not my problem." But that's not the choice I've made because I have no desire to live my life making the people around me uncomfortable.
I think the response I get from people around me has made the effort worth it.
posted by bswinburn at 4:53 PM on February 3, 2016
I think the response I get from people around me has made the effort worth it.
posted by bswinburn at 4:53 PM on February 3, 2016
With how good Russian people are at this RBF thing (really), I have to assume there's a cultural component to the prevalence and thus to the interpretation of RBF. (If you're in New York, you might still be able to get a dose of it on Brighton Beach Ave.)
posted by parudox at 10:06 PM on February 3, 2016
posted by parudox at 10:06 PM on February 3, 2016
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From the first link: "RBF isn’t necessarily something that occurs more in women, but we’re more attuned to notice it in women because women have more pressure on them to be happy and smiley and to get along with others.”
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 6:39 PM on February 2, 2016 [20 favorites]