Flatware for those who can afford it!
February 5, 2016 4:41 AM   Subscribe

Despite the name games, airline food hasn't changed much. Economy class meals still come in a wrapper, and business or first-class meals come with real cutlery. This list shows the sometimes striking difference between what the different classes eat.
posted by heyho (63 comments total) 14 users marked this as a favorite
 
The last few times I've flow, the "food" was one tiny bag of crumbly pretzels. In comparison, even the economy meals here look pretty good.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:45 AM on February 5, 2016 [10 favorites]


Yeah, most of the economy meals here look palatable. I'd actually rather have Air France's or Emirates' economy meals over the Air China business one.

And Lufthansa is just. So. Very. German.
posted by brokkr at 4:47 AM on February 5, 2016 [5 favorites]


Were these first class meals just a first course? Was there more? It might be terrible tasting but the bowl of curry and rice looks more filling than the artfully arranged garnishes with a side of fish.
posted by Slackermagee at 4:48 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


What flights are you getting food like that in Economy Class? I fly on United fairly often on coast-to-coast flights and I've never seen anything like the picture in this article. It's usually dry turkey sandwiches and some pretzels for $10.
posted by octothorpe at 4:52 AM on February 5, 2016 [8 favorites]


Generally international flights more than a few hours long still have meals in economy class.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:53 AM on February 5, 2016 [11 favorites]


Emirates economy meal is some of the best food I've had, in the air or on the ground.
posted by Optamystic at 4:54 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Korean Airlines one is wrong from my recollection (3 years ago though). You can get bibimbap in economy (you have a choice between a western and traditional meal). It comes in one bowl with a little tube of gochujang. Always go for the bibimbap!
posted by like_neon at 4:55 AM on February 5, 2016 [5 favorites]


A few years ago on Lufthansa I had a hot dog and several beers in economy. My wife can't stand hot dogs, and certainly not the smell of my beer-propelled hot dog burps. She was pretty unhappy.

A lot of that economy food looks pretty good, actually. Better than most of what I've had on international flights.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:58 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maybe it's because of how many frozen dinners I ate as a kid, but I think, for most of them, I'd kinda prefer the economy class meal over the first/business class one.

If I saw Kenya Airlines' meals without the labels (and looking at the food alone), I would have guessed that the business class meal was the economy one.
posted by Maladroid at 5:02 AM on February 5, 2016


Flying is both an amazing feat and horrible experience. You get into the metal tube, hurtle through the air and emerge at the other side of the planet. In the meantime you get to suffer through cramped seating, noise, bad air, your fellow humans in general et cetera. The food is there mostly to keep you busy and placate you somewhat so you don't murder the air crew from sheer stress. I find it a little weird to be arguing quality.
posted by Dr Dracator at 5:02 AM on February 5, 2016 [9 favorites]


oh so many

Metafilter: you get to suffer through cramped seating, noise, bad air, your fellow humans in general et cetera
posted by lalochezia at 5:05 AM on February 5, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm a vegetarian and have been fairly happy with airline food since more airlines started discovering that curry flies well. I have been on Delta flights where they haven't had a separate vegetarian meal--you order a special meal, but they're just assuming the vegetarian option (which seems to be pasta, all the time) won't run out. They definitely get points for having a vegetarian option among the standard choices, but I like being sure I'll get to eat. (Delta to Japan had a separate vegetarian meal. But I think they had two standard choices (Japanese or western), rather than three.) Of course, being a vegetarian means that the food doesn't change should you end up in business class. It just has a fancier presentation.

My only other comment on airline food is that the smell of those ham and cheese croissants American serves before landing in the US coming from Europe is forever burned in my brain. I'm not even sure they always have them any more--I seem to recall getting pizza coming from Germany once--but I occasionally recognise that smell somewhere (microwaved ham and american cheese?) and am always a little started with how strong an association I have with it.
posted by hoyland at 5:09 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


On certain Delta international flights in coach, there's a point where you get one of those shitty little ice cream cups that you eat with the flat paddle attached to the roof. It sucks and it's shitty and the worst part is I get excited for it, and this throws me into a Stockholm-syndrome-like shame spiral because in any other situation in life, if somebody handed me, a grown ass man, a shitty little cup of ice cream like that, I would tell them to shove it up their ass, but instead I'm sitting there scooping it into my mouth off that fucking paddle.
posted by ftm at 5:10 AM on February 5, 2016 [59 favorites]


I suspect the key with the Kenya Airlines one is that Economy is pre-prepared, but Business may have been cooked onboard?
posted by timdiggerm at 5:12 AM on February 5, 2016


I've been telling people since '09. Korean Air. Bibimap. That spicy toothpaste tube. Full stop. Maybe chase it with a 12 year Glenlivet.
posted by Sphinx at 5:18 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


Swissair connecting flights give you a chocolate square for a snack. It won't fill you up, but Swiss chocolate is nice.
posted by sukeban at 5:19 AM on February 5, 2016


The Korean meals Asiana serves in economy class are some of the better in-flight food I've had, even while considering some of it is all but literally instant (the flight attendant is pouring a kettle of hot water into a paper cup of dehydrated fish broth right in front of you). They also use metal utensils. Their Western meal alternatives seemed to uniformly be some variation on broiled chicken breast, though.

I have no chance of being a frequent enough flyer to qualify for cabin upgrades, I'm in the wrong profession for that. So I'll just have to stick with imagining how much better the food can get. To be honest I'm much more desirous of better legroom than better food, and I never feel like drinking when I fly so the comped booze is no enticement either. At least the food in economy never gave me back pain and leg cramps.
posted by ardgedee at 5:21 AM on February 5, 2016


Were these first class meals just a first course? Was there more? It might be terrible tasting but the bowl of curry and rice looks more filling than the artfully arranged garnishes with a side of fish.

You get 4 or 5 courses in 1st class.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:28 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


I remember thinking the food in economy class on Air France for a transatlantic flight was better than I've had at some restaurants. Plus, the stewardess gave us as much cognac as we wanted. Like I literally thought, "this time if I ask for cognac she'll say, no way you can have another glass of cognac, you're in coach!", but she kept saying yes. Maybe it was my bad french that made her take pity on me, but either way, decent food and all that cognac made for a bearable 8 hours.
posted by dis_integration at 5:30 AM on February 5, 2016 [2 favorites]


Air New Zealand's trans-Tasman economy option is to let you order something from the inflight entertainment screen. Pie and a cider, you beaut!
posted by raena at 5:30 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


On transcons, they feed everybody -- you're on that plane for 8+ hours. Also, its very airline dependent. US airlines are often horrid (though a couple of them have improved dramatically over the last five years) and if you're flying somebody who's sales pitch is "low cost", you'll get nothing and like it -- or pay for something. I'm not going to say food in AA Business is great, let's be honest, between the altitude and the reheat, nothing is *great*, but it wasn't bad.

Those flying business or first are often (almost always?) not spending their own money

True, that. It's either corporate or they're flying on upgrades. I have in fact purchased an international business class ticket on my own, it was remarkably cheap at the moment, so I said "hey...."

But yeah, that was the exception in my life, and the only reason I bought it was that it was upgrade eligible so I did get to fly international first at least once.
posted by eriko at 5:31 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've never had a meal like any depicted in the article. I did fly first class once (because Amtrak did us wrong around Thanksgiving), but Continental didn't have anything for a vegetarian diet. I don't recall them offering more than 3 courses.

Even if airlines in the US started providing vegetarian meals, I don't think they'll ever accommodate celiac disease for vegetarians. Lip service, sure, but unlikely that it will be made in a dedicated facility. I think getting glutened on a plane is about the worst thing that can happen to me, the crew, the rest of the passengers, and whatever bathroom I'm stuck in for the next few hours.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 5:34 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


That British Airways meal is Business Class, not First Class.

There's a whole next world of over-the-top posh for First Class.
posted by generichuman at 5:36 AM on February 5, 2016 [2 favorites]


I remember thinking the food in economy class on Air France for a transatlantic flight was better than I've had at some restaurants.

I had a very similar experience back in the mid-80s on a Sabena flight to Belgium—asparagus crepes for dinner. Seemed like an odd choice for airline fare, but man was it delicious. Like remember-it-30-years-later delicious.
posted by heyho at 5:44 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


A little trick I learned years ago, I'm sure just by not paying close enough attention when I was clicking on things booking my ticket: Order the Kosher meal. Everyone with their stale-bread sandwich will be glowering at you while you eat your salmon.
posted by Cyrano at 5:47 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


I once flew (on points) business class to Europe, and it was amazing and also the food was in fact completely delicious.
posted by jeather at 5:48 AM on February 5, 2016


"If I were spending my money, I'd take the extra grand and book a very fine restaurant on arrival."

I appreciate the sentiment, but keep in mind you won't be spending eight hours in that restaurant. If you're an even slightly large person -- probably even if you're just average-sized, to be honest -- the mere inches of extra leg room you get to experience for the length of time you're trapped in the metal tube are well worth the added expense, if you can spare it.

Also, the liquor is included in the ticket price. Even very fine restaurants won't give you a bottomless G&T.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:50 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


My wife and I once got mysteriously moved to the front of the plane (business I think) on a transatlantic flight, but sadly it did not come with any crazy good meals, just lots of extra leg room. It was pretty nice, though, considering that it happened at random when were in college and had definitely not paid extra for it.

Our last transatlantic flight (economy) was on the short side as these things go (Lisbon to Philadelphia) and I was mostly struck by how much food we got. A meal and then ice cream and then a snack and then another thing. By the end I just wanted to be left alone.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:54 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


most people who regularly fly in the front of the plane aren't doing it for the food. You are doing it for the ability to sleep and the access to an arrivals lounge where you can shower and get your suit and shirt pressed before attacking the day.

These days I don't even eat on the transatlantic fights. The incremental cost of NYC-LON in J is enough to fund several very high end meals in either city.

I have paid for premium economy tickets when travelling for pleasure to Asia, but I wouldn't ever pay for J.
posted by JPD at 6:09 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


Funny, I was thinking to myself "Well, economy looks like enough food, but business/first does look nicer. But I'd be hungry afterwards." So I guess that's why first class also gets snacks.
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:11 AM on February 5, 2016


Order the Kosher meal. Everyone with their stale-bread sandwich will be glowering at you while you eat your salmon.

Better yet - stop by a good deli before heading to the airport.
posted by BWA at 6:11 AM on February 5, 2016


Being vegan, I have been able to score very decent meals on flights between MTL/TO to London each way. Sometimes it's curry (yay!), other times it's pasta (fine), but it looks better than most of what my seatmates are eating.
posted by Kitteh at 6:14 AM on February 5, 2016


Honestly in first if you asked for every choice they would give it to you. Probably with a full bottle of Bollinger as well.

My wife and I flew NYC-HK in F and at one point I had to sort of tell her it was OK to say no to the flight attendent.
posted by JPD at 6:15 AM on February 5, 2016


I remember thinking the food in economy class on Air France for a transatlantic flight was better than I've had at some restaurants. Plus, the stewardess gave us as much cognac as we wanted

I was on a flight from Singapore to Paris last summer and after finishing my economy-class meal, which had come with a copious amount of red wine, the flight attendant came by and asked, "Would you like brownie?"

Slightly bemused that I was being offered a brownie on Air France of all places (and chalking up the omission of "a" to a shaky command of English), I decided that yes of course I would like a fudge-tastic dessert.

Turns out she was asking if I wanted some brandy. Which I happily accepted instead.
posted by andrewesque at 6:16 AM on February 5, 2016 [6 favorites]


An interesting comparison, but as others have said, the food is just the perk of first/business, not the reason anyone who pick one or the other. It's all about the space - more room in all directions. I've only flown business class once but my god what a difference. Who can afford it, though? My first class = ativan before take off + noise cancelling headphones + a beer or two before the flight.
posted by DrLickies at 6:21 AM on February 5, 2016


It's usually dry turkey sandwiches and some pretzels for $10.

... while you are travelling in near-perfect safety at 600KPH on a chair in the sky.
posted by mhoye at 6:23 AM on February 5, 2016 [13 favorites]


Flying out of London, an excellent hack for getting edible food is to take the asian vegetarian meal (AVL), which is lacto but not ovo, and basically guaranteed to be a nicely spicy dahl, some kind of vegetable dish (saag paneer, or something similar) and rice.

Flying back from the US is a different story: the AVL meal is a bland mush. Given the recent rise in palatable vegan food stateside, maybe that's the way to go...

(Also, awful as United are, there is no way that this is their First Class meal. I could believe that it's the Business Class meal though. In which case, well done United for serving something to Business Class passengers that wouldn't look out of place in Economy. )
posted by Omission at 6:28 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


I am currently looking at a United Airlines magazine ad from 1976. The headline is "United Serves" and it lists the following special meals:

Bland (for ulcers)
Low sugar
Low carbohydrate
Low cholesterol
Soul
Vegetarian (pure)
Baby food
Hindu
Muslim
Gluten free
Low calorie
Low fat
Oriental
Hot-dog-type kid food
Kosher
Lactose restricted
Vegetarian (lacto/ovo)
Low sodium

I am genuinely sad at the disappearance of the "Soul" special mean option because I would be all over that.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 6:28 AM on February 5, 2016 [5 favorites]


... while you are travelling in near-perfect safety at 600KPH on a chair in the sky.

I wasn't really complaining, just curious where all that fancy food was being served as I've never seen that in decades of flying. But I've never left the U.S. and the answer seems to be that you see food like this on non-domestic flights.
posted by octothorpe at 6:28 AM on February 5, 2016


FWIW, I've flown many times in first class internationally and often don't pay anythingn at all. It's one of the best ways to use your frequent flier miles. Often, the meal is just a lot more courses of fairly bland poorly cooked stuff, although the Korean Air bibimap is indeed delicious. I honestly don't much care about the food, but for this 6'4" 225# dude, the bed makes all the difference in the world on those 12 hour flights.
posted by Lame_username at 6:57 AM on February 5, 2016 [2 favorites]


On domestic food: in my first year of post-college work, the one thing that has come up surprisingly often with friends who (like myself) actually have a little extra money for the first time is that the one luxury we all started allowing ourselves (and never did before) is buying food and drink on the plane.

I regret not doing it earlier, because really, that $8 cheese and cracker selection really isn't any more expensive than airport food anyways. And it's never seemed *that* bad to me, given the limitations they're working with...
posted by R a c h e l at 7:17 AM on February 5, 2016 [2 favorites]


I flew a few times during the brief period when US Airways decided to charge for soft drinks. It turned out nobody really wanted them enough to buy them. I'm also old enough to remember when the US airlines served hot meals to everybody, even on short domestic flights. The food was, as correctly diagnosed by comedians everywhere, unrelentingly abysmal. We all ate it, though, less as a form of sustenance and more a way to pass the time. Really, a cellophane-wrapped sandwich or even a packet of salted nuts is more edible than the US domestic airplane food of yore.
posted by Daily Alice at 7:33 AM on February 5, 2016


Air New Zealand's trans-Tasman economy option is to let you order something from the inflight entertainment screen. Pie and a cider, you beaut!

My first flight on Air NZ was about an hour long and they handed out popsicles, delicious popsicles. I can't even remember what flavor. It was also the last leg of 36 hours of travel, so I was a bit loopy, but: definitely one of my top five popsicle experiences.

There was also a full meal in economy on Bangkok Airways, it was such a short flight (BKK-CNX) they barely had time to serve everyone. The food was not that bad! Bangkok Airways is a really snack-happy airline, though - they have a lounge for their passengers of any class with snacks and drinks and comfortable chairs.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 7:38 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


Air China economy food is solidly decent. Can't recommend transiting through the Beijing airport to another country, but other than that, they deliver a perfectly adequate travel experience, no worse (except for crap beer and perhaps simply decent instead of good food) than you'd find on another airline in economy.
posted by Hactar at 7:42 AM on February 5, 2016


Economy class food on Air France will always have a place in my heart, if only for the fact that it always contains a little wedge of brie for me to gobble down after months of no cheese while doing fieldwork.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:43 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


I flew Midwest Express between Boston and Milwaukee with some frequency in the late 1980s. This was back when they charged coach-class prices but offered a business/first-class experience. On several occasions, the in-flight meal was Lobster Thermidor. Sadly, those days are long gone.

It's funny and sad how so many economy-class meals look better than the business- and first-class meals offered by other airlines (I'm looking at you, United).
posted by slkinsey at 7:47 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


A favorite airline food story of my parents was when they were on an Aeroflot flight to a scientific conference in Moscow in the 1970s and were given what they could only describe as "sour banana candy" (aka butyl acetate, citric acid and sugar). They described it as equally perplexing and awful.
posted by slkinsey at 7:54 AM on February 5, 2016


Safi Airways has a pretty good meal (a really pleasing egg and maple hot dog [its not really a sausage? idk] for breakfast), but the flight attendants hand out hard candy before take off and landing, which is such a small, nice gesture. I'm surprised more airlines don't do it.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 7:54 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


British airways used to hand out lollys to people who needed to such during landing.

For some reason got upgraded from economy to first on an internal air china flight. Hallo Chongqing noodles in spicy sauce with so much pig I cannot usually get it at landside restaurant.

Also a gluten free on Swiss was incredible. The most delicious white fish I have ever had. So much so I actually wrote to tell them.

I think the word was a rice cake on southen airlines, for shed wtf?
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 8:17 AM on February 5, 2016


Yes, I recognize that Singapore Economy meal, I'm looking at the menu now. You get a choice. This is the Western entree: Pan Fried Chicken in Herb Gravy served with sauteed veg and mashed potatoes. I had the other option, Stir-fried Beef with Ginger and Spring Onion with seasonal veg and fried noodles. The dessert isn't shown for some reason, it was Marble Cheesecake.

Always pick the Asian option.

God, I flew Bangkok Airways just three days ago, CMX to BKK, and I can't even remember if they served meal.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:04 AM on February 5, 2016


I never get to fly up front, but the most extraordinary thing I've ever had was in Economy on All Nippon Airways Shanghai-Tokyo (maybe 70 minutes?) flight, which was a little sushi bento with some cold noodles.

My eardrum ruptured a few minutes after I got done eating, and even in excruciating pain I cleaned my plate.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:08 AM on February 5, 2016


Not surprised that most of the economy meals look better than the first-class offering on Air Canada.

I think the best meal I've ever had on a plane was on a regional flight from Bangkok to Chiang Mai. I have flown business class once -- from Toronto to Sydney -- but it's not the food I remember, it's the legroom.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 9:11 AM on February 5, 2016


Bangkok Airways is so amazing -- their lounge at Suvarnabhumi (Bangkok's larger airport) is chock full of delicious Thai sweets and goodies and I so highly recommend them.
posted by andrewesque at 9:15 AM on February 5, 2016


On a Sunwing flight from Portugal to Toronto a few years ago they brought me this sad sandwich and it made me laugh. It's vegetarian!
posted by chococat at 10:12 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


There was an occasion 15, maybe 18 years ago when I flew economy class and had ordered the vegetarian meal. I was legitimately vegetarian at the time, but by the time they got to my seat they had run out of vegetarian meals so I couldn't eat anything. The flight attendant, without saying a word that she would (I thought that was the end of it), showed up at my seat about 15 minutes later with a bowl of the most delicious mushroom soup I ever had, in a real bowl with a real spoon. And a yummy, warm roll too, and a real cloth napkin. I guess it was what they were serving in first class! It's possible that the mushroom soup was made with chicken stock or something but I didn't ask because it was so nice of her to bring it out to me and frankly I was hungry.

My seatmates were quite jealous.
posted by misskaz at 11:19 AM on February 5, 2016 [3 favorites]


TWinbrook8: "God, I flew Bangkok Airways just three days ago, CMX to BKK, and I can't even remember if they served meal."
I hope they did - it must be quite the long haul from Houghton County, Michigan to Bangkok.
posted by brokkr at 11:27 AM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


Omission: (Also, awful as United are, there is no way that this is their First Class meal. I could believe that it's the Business Class meal though. In which case, well done United for serving something to Business Class passengers that wouldn't look out of place in Economy. )

I flew United first class cross country at Christmas this year. The second picture looks about right. It was perfectly decent food, especially if you have been taking advantage of the endless booze properly.
posted by tavella at 2:12 PM on February 5, 2016


My worst ever meal was a United lacto-ovo vegetarian meal: two Ryvita, buttered in advance to make them soggy, and half a baby sweetcorn. That was it, on an eleven hour transatlantic flight. It wasn't even on a tray, it was just a clingfilm-wrapped plate. I asked if I could have the sides and dessert from the meat option (bread, cheese, salad and a brownie) and was aggressively told no I could not. So I am willing to believe anything about United's terrible food.
posted by tinkletown at 2:19 PM on February 5, 2016


I flew Air China two summers ago and their vegetarian meals were pretty bad (the regular meals didn't look too good either). The meal from PEK to BKK was a selection of limp vegetables and white rice, no flavoring or sauces for either. I'm sure it sufficed for a variety of meal options (vegans, kosher/halal, low fat, etc) but lord was it hard to choke down.

United didn't offer me a meal option on my most recent international flight with them, and it was a short hop so I wasn't expecting a meal. Annoying surprise to discover they were serving meals and there were no vegetarian options (salad with beef or broiled chicken, as I recall). Totally typical of United.

Also? The nice advantage to ordering a special meal is that you tend to get yours first, before anyone else in economy.
posted by librarylis at 2:37 PM on February 5, 2016


Flew Air France last summer and my gluten free meal hadn't been loaded. The flight attendant made me a huge salad from extra stuff for first class. Best airline meal ever - with lots of decent wine too. Flying back to the states it was KLM and they brought me multiple incredibly vile gluten free meals. I don't remember what they were besides inedible. Wasn't optimistic about being fed and we were 6 hours late so had eaten - thank goodness.
posted by leslies at 3:42 PM on February 5, 2016


I've had Korean Air economy bibimap with the spicy tube and honestly I think the chicken alternative is better. I agree the beef alternative is pretty mediocre.

One thing I've found that improves airline meals is to take the little single serving butter pat and stir it into the main course.
posted by zymil at 5:02 PM on February 5, 2016


I flew from LAX to Seoul, Seoul-Bangkok round trip, back to LAX. All economy, the LAX-Seoul trip was on Korean Air and the Seoul-Bangkok trip was on a Thai airline. I was so excited when I selected Korean-vegetarian as the meal options on Korean Air as we'd be on it for a lunch, dinner, breakfast, and lunch; I love Korean food but it is hard to find veggie and I was so excited about what I would get. The Thai airline didn't have an online meal selection method so I had to call my travel agent and make him make the request. The Thai airline only had Western vegetarian, so he picked that...and then noticed I'd picked Korean food for the Korean Air part and CHANGED IT TO WESTERN FOOD WITHOUT TELLING ME. The Korean Air western vegetarian meal is the same thing for breakfast, lunch, and dinner: cold hard roll, pat of butter, 1 cups overcooked pasta in 1 tablespoon tomato sauce, limp green salad, ice water, orange slice. Meanwhile the people in the seats around us are enjoying their (meat) Korean food that looked really delicious.

So what I am saying is, please, please stop talking about delicious economy bibimbap.
posted by holyrood at 6:49 PM on February 5, 2016


I've had a number of "long flight" meals. When dealing with all the crap of traveling in a confined space, you really don't give a crap about presentation. It comes down to the question: How does it taste?
If it tastes really good, you honestly don't care if it is served to you mashed up in a black garbage bag.
posted by Muncle at 6:58 PM on February 5, 2016 [1 favorite]


« Older That's the Way of the World   |   Why, Why, Why? Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments