How to market a budding industry
March 16, 2016 7:30 PM Subscribe
Pot businesses are, above all, businesses, and they’re responding as businesses do: with marketing aimed at convincing longtime pot users that their brand is better than the others—and, just as important, at increasing demand by encouraging curious nonusers to try their product first. --The Art of Marketing Marijuana [SLTheAtlantic]
I've got one:
Lucky Mike's
You're toasted!
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:16 PM on March 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Lucky Mike's
You're toasted!
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:16 PM on March 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
The weed stores I drive by mostly seem to have a person standing outside holding a sign and dancing, just like the tax preparation places. At least they don't seem to be required to wear costumes or funny hats.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:20 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by Dip Flash at 8:20 PM on March 16, 2016
Concur--interesting topic, article was a little thin. Would be interesting to see side-by-side examples of how product design evolves. "When Mannix and DeFalco design ads or logos for clients, they use a lot of white space and replace bright-green color schemes with cool grays and blues. “A lot of clients come to us saying they want to look like Apple,” Mannix told me." Does anybody have any more specifics along these lines?
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:20 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:20 PM on March 16, 2016
nthing the disappointment with an article that seemed to promise an in-depth look at these questions and then just kind of ended. I currently have some non-trivial association with the legal weed industry, and in previous lifetimes have worked in the luxury tobacco industry and the alcohol industry (going for the triple crown, I guess). This isn't the first time that the commonalities between the industries have struck me. Not just for the surface-level "commodified vice" thing, but for the reality that the industries are really about "differentiating" more-or-less identical products through branding and marketing. In the cigar business, it's an open secret that the probably thousand-plus premium cigar brands are all manufactured in one of about twenty factories--most premium cigar companies are, when all is said and done, actually cigar box companies who contract to marketers. Booze, to be fair, has a wider variety of flavor experiences to offer, but likewise when all is said and done are marketing nice bottles and packaging for ethanol and flavorings.
If my decade-plus of vice experience tells me anything, it's that the people who stand to profit in the cannabis boom are the packagers and the marketers, and I was kind of hoping for an article that started to really dig into that fact and its implications.
posted by Krawczak at 8:43 PM on March 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
If my decade-plus of vice experience tells me anything, it's that the people who stand to profit in the cannabis boom are the packagers and the marketers, and I was kind of hoping for an article that started to really dig into that fact and its implications.
posted by Krawczak at 8:43 PM on March 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Yeah, I was hoping it would explore more of the visual design. I can't track down many updates, but I know that in Oregon, they were working on some strict rules for graphics and packaging back in 2014.
The rules require child-proof and opaque packaging so the product isn't visible from the outside. If the product isn't meant to be consumed in a single serving, the package must be closable. The packaging also may not feature cartoons "or images other than the logo of the facility, unless the logo of the facility depicts the product or cartoons, in which case only the name of the facility is permitted.
posted by redsparkler at 8:45 PM on March 16, 2016
The rules require child-proof and opaque packaging so the product isn't visible from the outside. If the product isn't meant to be consumed in a single serving, the package must be closable. The packaging also may not feature cartoons "or images other than the logo of the facility, unless the logo of the facility depicts the product or cartoons, in which case only the name of the facility is permitted.
posted by redsparkler at 8:45 PM on March 16, 2016
Marijuanapackaging.com is not the design overview I was hoping for, either.
posted by redsparkler at 8:47 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by redsparkler at 8:47 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oregon has sprouted a million dispensaries overnight. The consistent branding seems to be mostly white or green buildings with "modern" fonts and kind of a ZoomCare feel to them.
There are also some ridiculous billboards decrying driving while stoned.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 8:50 PM on March 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
There are also some ridiculous billboards decrying driving while stoned.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 8:50 PM on March 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
From earlier today: Pa. medical marijuana supporters celebrate bill passage; Gov. Wolf hopes to soon sign it
I'd think that packaging/design/branding for medical purposes differs from that for recreational purposes--? And that it's on a state-by-state basis? (Makes me wonder whether Pennsylvania will adopt what has been proposed elsewhere, as in redsparkler's link to Oregon's rules.)
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:52 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd think that packaging/design/branding for medical purposes differs from that for recreational purposes--? And that it's on a state-by-state basis? (Makes me wonder whether Pennsylvania will adopt what has been proposed elsewhere, as in redsparkler's link to Oregon's rules.)
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:52 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, seriously, I am not sure it is possible to open a new business in the Portland metro area without it being pot-related in some way. The dispensaries are everywhere, and the minute edibles become a thing I expect all the bakeries/chocolate shops/whatever to open up.
It's the Shoe Event Horizon but with pot. And there are guys holding signs saying "$25 grams" and all I can ask is, "Is that a good price?" I have no idea.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:30 PM on March 16, 2016
It's the Shoe Event Horizon but with pot. And there are guys holding signs saying "$25 grams" and all I can ask is, "Is that a good price?" I have no idea.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:30 PM on March 16, 2016
The "palate" stuff, this thin pretense that people smoke for the taste, is so ridiculous in the first place — it's so obviously born out of desperation for any differentiator at all. But all the dispensaries seem to adopt the same pretense, because it suits them to offer customers an illusion of sommelier-like expert guidance on a complex and sophisticated choice. Must be some universal law of sales.
posted by RogerB at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by RogerB at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are also some ridiculous billboards decrying driving while stoned.
Meaning the billboards themselves are ridiculous or the messaging is ridiculous? Because I'm pretty sure it's not a super-amazing idea to drive while stoned.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meaning the billboards themselves are ridiculous or the messaging is ridiculous? Because I'm pretty sure it's not a super-amazing idea to drive while stoned.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:31 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I'm actually waiting for (and slightly shocked I haven't seen yet, at least in my fairly limited experience), is "session" weed. The states with legal recreational use all seem to have testing and labeling requirements that are making potency into an arms-race selling point — the same kind of legal unintended consequences that once led to "ice beer" proof wars, etc. There's almost no one out there catering to the customer who'd rather pay for a mild, pleasant experience than Purple Brain Blaster AK-47 Dogshit Dank.
posted by RogerB at 9:42 PM on March 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by RogerB at 9:42 PM on March 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
The "Green Dot" near me has $10 grams and $20 grams. I'm not sure what differentiates them.
posted by Death and Gravity at 9:43 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by Death and Gravity at 9:43 PM on March 16, 2016
Yep literally every dispensary in Colorado seems hell-bent on seeking nuclear-powered mind melters
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:56 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:56 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I'm actually waiting for (and slightly shocked I haven't seen yet, at least in my fairly limited experience), is "session" weed.
It's already here the marketing just hasn't caught up. Strains that are high in CBD but low (relatively) in THC will be the "mom weed" or "weed for professionals" in a couple of years. Just wait. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the word "session" either, seems like the market for craft beer probably has a lot of overlap.
Not sure how it is in other states, but there is definitely a major aesthetic split in the California dispensaries. Half of them are like liquor stores - you order through a glass barrier, most of the strains are very, very heavy indicas with stupid names and the artwork on the walls looks like stupid 60s bullshit - the other half look like Apple stores and specialize in concentrates and sativa/CBD strains.
The nuclear powered mind melters will have their place, but it won't be in the mainstream of legal cannabis. The mom weed will be single origin vaporizer cartridges and strains grown for CBD instead of THC. The states that are newer to legalization (ie. Colorado) are selling to the stoner culture that existed pre-prohibition. That is a limited market, and one that will become increasingly irrelevant as prohibition continues to be eroded.
posted by bradbane at 10:09 PM on March 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's already here the marketing just hasn't caught up. Strains that are high in CBD but low (relatively) in THC will be the "mom weed" or "weed for professionals" in a couple of years. Just wait. I wouldn't be surprised if they use the word "session" either, seems like the market for craft beer probably has a lot of overlap.
Not sure how it is in other states, but there is definitely a major aesthetic split in the California dispensaries. Half of them are like liquor stores - you order through a glass barrier, most of the strains are very, very heavy indicas with stupid names and the artwork on the walls looks like stupid 60s bullshit - the other half look like Apple stores and specialize in concentrates and sativa/CBD strains.
The nuclear powered mind melters will have their place, but it won't be in the mainstream of legal cannabis. The mom weed will be single origin vaporizer cartridges and strains grown for CBD instead of THC. The states that are newer to legalization (ie. Colorado) are selling to the stoner culture that existed pre-prohibition. That is a limited market, and one that will become increasingly irrelevant as prohibition continues to be eroded.
posted by bradbane at 10:09 PM on March 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
The future is edibles and lozenges.
posted by humanfont at 10:16 PM on March 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 10:16 PM on March 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm waiting for someone to get Tommy Chong's permission to name their product "Chong's Choice" with his picture on the package. (If there's a more famous stoner, I don't know who it might be.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:21 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:21 PM on March 16, 2016
Meanwhile: How black people are being shut out of Americas Weed Boom
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:22 PM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:22 PM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Your wait is over, Chocolate Pickle.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 10:23 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 10:23 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm waiting for someone to get Tommy Chong's permission
You mean Ashley Roachclip's permission, right?
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:32 PM on March 16, 2016
You mean Ashley Roachclip's permission, right?
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:32 PM on March 16, 2016
What is happening with the thc concentration; 20-25% now, imagine if every beer was all of a sudden 20-25% alcohol. Like the taste of your beer? Enjoy a nice drink? Too bad, few sips and nighty night, hello couch.
I miss the 80's.
posted by buzzman at 10:32 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I miss the 80's.
posted by buzzman at 10:32 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Purple Brain Blaster AK-47 Dogshit Dank
Sign me up!
posted by XhaustedProphet at 10:35 PM on March 16, 2016
Sign me up!
posted by XhaustedProphet at 10:35 PM on March 16, 2016
Purple Brain Blaster AK-47 Dogshit Dank
Is this true, though? In CO (where I'm living), the pot industry gained a major foot in the door, because of medicinals. I'm guessing there's a fair share of people who got their medical marijuana card for legitimate reasons, like chronic (no pun intended) pain, sleep aids, depression, etc. They don't want to stoned out of their gourd, they just want to feel a little more functional - certainly not high at all.
I'm going to guess strains that do specific things are already a Thing. I know nothing of this, as I'm such a teetotaler of the green sticky, but the interest is there for those long, insomnia sessions I have, where Sleepy Time tea just ain't enough. Barring, the odd Black Mountain show I want to have an Uber ride already booked back to my house and an interest of really having no recollection of feeling that I actually touched the ground that night, I really would like something that's not alchohol (bad family history), not an opiate, that will just get me through those existential crisises without hurting myself.
And nice dreams are OK, too.
$25 a gram sounds like a bargain.
Anyways, hand up for the grandma, low THC content doses.
posted by alex_skazat at 10:58 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is this true, though? In CO (where I'm living), the pot industry gained a major foot in the door, because of medicinals. I'm guessing there's a fair share of people who got their medical marijuana card for legitimate reasons, like chronic (no pun intended) pain, sleep aids, depression, etc. They don't want to stoned out of their gourd, they just want to feel a little more functional - certainly not high at all.
I'm going to guess strains that do specific things are already a Thing. I know nothing of this, as I'm such a teetotaler of the green sticky, but the interest is there for those long, insomnia sessions I have, where Sleepy Time tea just ain't enough. Barring, the odd Black Mountain show I want to have an Uber ride already booked back to my house and an interest of really having no recollection of feeling that I actually touched the ground that night, I really would like something that's not alchohol (bad family history), not an opiate, that will just get me through those existential crisises without hurting myself.
And nice dreams are OK, too.
$25 a gram sounds like a bargain.
Anyways, hand up for the grandma, low THC content doses.
posted by alex_skazat at 10:58 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
And if the whole medicinal thing is a big joke we all played on the State Gov. of CO - well played. But I don't think that's what I had actually cast my vote for.
posted by alex_skazat at 10:59 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by alex_skazat at 10:59 PM on March 16, 2016
I'm waiting for someone to get Tommy Chong's permission to name their product "Chong's Choice" with his picture on the package. (If there's a more famous stoner, I don't know who it might be.
Probably not quite at Chong's level, but we've already got Khalifa Kush.
posted by invitapriore at 11:00 PM on March 16, 2016
Probably not quite at Chong's level, but we've already got Khalifa Kush.
posted by invitapriore at 11:00 PM on March 16, 2016
$25 a gram is damned expensive traditionally (this is CA so YMMV). Talking about street prices for reasonable but not top-end here.
Within the dispensary system - dunno about under legal regimes - it's far from unheard of though probably above average (price and hopefully correspondingly quality).
posted by atoxyl at 1:03 AM on March 17, 2016
Within the dispensary system - dunno about under legal regimes - it's far from unheard of though probably above average (price and hopefully correspondingly quality).
posted by atoxyl at 1:03 AM on March 17, 2016
The Booming Marijuana Industry Is Still Too White
Nice Day for a Weed Wedding: We Went to Colorado's First Cannabis Wedding Expo
posted by divabat at 1:32 AM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nice Day for a Weed Wedding: We Went to Colorado's First Cannabis Wedding Expo
posted by divabat at 1:32 AM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also reading this thread (as well as a lot of updates from my US friends) is quite a trip now that I'm in a country where there's a mandatory death sentence for marijuana trafficking.
posted by divabat at 1:40 AM on March 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by divabat at 1:40 AM on March 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
As glad as I am that prohibition, and the inexcusable wrongs that come with it, are ending - putting the weed industry on a track towards a future more like alcohol than tobacco like this can't be the right answer. Somehow the beverage industry has gotten us all to forget how deeply fucking evil it inherently is.
The beverage industry knows exactly what they're really selling with the brand marketing that they use to set themselves apart, and the product they're aiming for is not a healthy relationship with alcohol. At least in the US, while most people do have a healthy relationship with alcohol, the top ten percent of drinkers account for way more than half of all alcohol consumed, which is more than half of all alcohol purchased. That is 24 million Americans drinking the equivalent of more than four bottles of vodka a week, or 18 bottles of wine, or three cases of beer. The goal of alcohol branding is to push more people towards the maintenance phase of alcoholism - its where the money comes from. Every adult they can turn into a connoisseur, or a party animal, or a lone drunk with a problem means an enormous amount of cash, if that top decide were to find a way to join even just the still heavily drinking 9th decile, the whole industry would collapse overnight with sales dropping by 60%. What we have now, as the afterglow of alcohol prohibition continues to slowly wear off, is a rapidly global industry serving a market worth 1.2 trillion dollars in 2014 that makes its profit from promoting extraordinary harm.
As the weed industry corporatizes, drives down prices enough to compete even better with the illegal market for super users, and realizes how much money there is to be made in bad habits like the alcohol and tobacco industries have - it will need liberal push back. We can't keep stubbornly pretending that weed is totally harmless to heavy users because the moment the weed industry has the power of the man behind it, it will use that power to fuck us up.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:19 AM on March 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
The beverage industry knows exactly what they're really selling with the brand marketing that they use to set themselves apart, and the product they're aiming for is not a healthy relationship with alcohol. At least in the US, while most people do have a healthy relationship with alcohol, the top ten percent of drinkers account for way more than half of all alcohol consumed, which is more than half of all alcohol purchased. That is 24 million Americans drinking the equivalent of more than four bottles of vodka a week, or 18 bottles of wine, or three cases of beer. The goal of alcohol branding is to push more people towards the maintenance phase of alcoholism - its where the money comes from. Every adult they can turn into a connoisseur, or a party animal, or a lone drunk with a problem means an enormous amount of cash, if that top decide were to find a way to join even just the still heavily drinking 9th decile, the whole industry would collapse overnight with sales dropping by 60%. What we have now, as the afterglow of alcohol prohibition continues to slowly wear off, is a rapidly global industry serving a market worth 1.2 trillion dollars in 2014 that makes its profit from promoting extraordinary harm.
As the weed industry corporatizes, drives down prices enough to compete even better with the illegal market for super users, and realizes how much money there is to be made in bad habits like the alcohol and tobacco industries have - it will need liberal push back. We can't keep stubbornly pretending that weed is totally harmless to heavy users because the moment the weed industry has the power of the man behind it, it will use that power to fuck us up.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:19 AM on March 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
How to make pot seem as all-American as an ice-cold beer
This Bud's For You!
(imagine three frogs.)
Bud's
High
Eerrrrrr.
posted by eriko at 4:20 AM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
This Bud's For You!
(imagine three frogs.)
Bud's
High
Eerrrrrr.
posted by eriko at 4:20 AM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't be surprised if they use the word "session" either, seems like the market for craft beer probably has a lot of overlap.
I love that you said that because 5 years ago "session" was only known in the US to beer nerds who'd been to the UK. The fact that both the beer style and word are becoming well established make me happy, because I don't need to drink a bunch of 8.5% ABV beers.
(Founder's All Day IPA is a work of art, though calling some that's at 4.7ABV a session beer is really a stretch. But compared to most American IPAs? It also allows the English to get into a lather about how Us Americans are Doing It Wrong, which makes them happy, and I'm all for more happiness in the world.)
(Also, my English friends, if you get a chance, try All Day IPA. Nice beer.)
(Also also, my English friends, yeah, we are doing it wrong by calling a 4.7% session. I get that. Baby steps first.)
posted by eriko at 4:25 AM on March 17, 2016
I love that you said that because 5 years ago "session" was only known in the US to beer nerds who'd been to the UK. The fact that both the beer style and word are becoming well established make me happy, because I don't need to drink a bunch of 8.5% ABV beers.
(Founder's All Day IPA is a work of art, though calling some that's at 4.7ABV a session beer is really a stretch. But compared to most American IPAs? It also allows the English to get into a lather about how Us Americans are Doing It Wrong, which makes them happy, and I'm all for more happiness in the world.)
(Also, my English friends, if you get a chance, try All Day IPA. Nice beer.)
(Also also, my English friends, yeah, we are doing it wrong by calling a 4.7% session. I get that. Baby steps first.)
posted by eriko at 4:25 AM on March 17, 2016
Calling an IPA a session is inherently wrong - IPAs are definitionally stronger than session beers. That said, it's not like the British don't fuck it up spectacularly themselves - witness Greene King IPA which is not an IPA, is not even pale, and is a tasteless session beer.
posted by Dysk at 4:43 AM on March 17, 2016
posted by Dysk at 4:43 AM on March 17, 2016
Not sure how it is in other states, but there is definitely a major aesthetic split in the California dispensaries. Half of them are like liquor stores - you order through a glass barrier, most of the strains are very, very heavy indicas with stupid names and the artwork on the walls looks like stupid 60s bullshit - the other half look like Apple stores and specialize in concentrates and sativa/CBD strains.
I have never been into a weed store, but I see them all the time in Oregon and Washington. Aesthetically, it looks the same as the split in tattoo shops -- some that are high end with a clean and careful visual aesthetic, and lots that are more like a cross between a payday lender and a motorcycle repair shop. Those are where I always see a guy dancing outside holding a sign advertising a sale or with some kind of crazy weed variety name on it.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:51 AM on March 17, 2016
I have never been into a weed store, but I see them all the time in Oregon and Washington. Aesthetically, it looks the same as the split in tattoo shops -- some that are high end with a clean and careful visual aesthetic, and lots that are more like a cross between a payday lender and a motorcycle repair shop. Those are where I always see a guy dancing outside holding a sign advertising a sale or with some kind of crazy weed variety name on it.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:51 AM on March 17, 2016
I'm waiting for someone to get Tommy Chong's permission to name their product "Chong's Choice" with his picture on the package. (If there's a more famous stoner, I don't know who it might be.
See also: Snoop Dogg's new enterprise.
posted by carmicha at 7:29 AM on March 17, 2016
See also: Snoop Dogg's new enterprise.
posted by carmicha at 7:29 AM on March 17, 2016
When you start a company like this, it's important that you look like a couple of dumbfucks from Vermont.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:31 AM on March 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 7:31 AM on March 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
What we have now, as the afterglow of alcohol prohibition continues to slowly wear off, is a rapidly global industry serving a market worth 1.2 trillion dollars in 2014 that makes its profit from promoting extraordinary harm.
I've found this Heineken commercial interesting lately - it specifically markets to "moderate drinkers". Is that a reaction to other brands that openly market a sort of alcoholism? I've never perceived, say, Bud Light commercials that way but I wonder if I'm just that naive.
posted by R a c h e l at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've found this Heineken commercial interesting lately - it specifically markets to "moderate drinkers". Is that a reaction to other brands that openly market a sort of alcoholism? I've never perceived, say, Bud Light commercials that way but I wonder if I'm just that naive.
posted by R a c h e l at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
The hipster pot stores here in Seattle are a weird experience. It feels like choosing a bottle of wine with dinner at a fancy restaurant -- the staff are all, "this blend of strains comes from the North and will give you an intellectual high, or you could try out X strain which is more of a body high with a faint closing note of pineapple".
posted by jess at 9:35 AM on March 17, 2016
posted by jess at 9:35 AM on March 17, 2016
What is happening with the thc concentration; 20-25% now, imagine if every beer was all of a sudden 20-25% alcohol. Like the taste of your beer? Enjoy a nice drink? Too bad, few sips and nighty night, hello couch.
There's a remarkable amount of variety I've found at my local shops. Those 20-25% THC varieties out there, but there's also some 4% THC options; the whole gamut is present (at least around here in Portland). The interplay between THC and CBD percentages is also really important. This is why I really, really value the folks that work at the couple shops I go to. I overheard a guy at my local shop, who it was his first time smoking weed since the 70s or something. He wanted to try something, and the dudes working the counter were so stoked to help him find something really mellow that had a lower THC count; these strains still exist, but they're a bit of a niche. They're not always available at the shops I frequent, but I really expect that to change over time.
With alcohol and coffee, you're really only looking at a couple chemicals that do relatively the same thing. I mean, I'm a coffee roaster and we talk about varietals and flavors all the time, but no one is asking 'how is this caffeine going to wake me up?' Because it all operates roughly the same. Same thing with beer; no one is looking at anything other than the ABV for its chemical effects. With weed, you actually do have a pretty wide swath of experience.
I've mentioned this on askme threads, but I've found a really pleasant higher CBD strain that is the best. I can go ride a stationary bike for an hour, or clean the house, or pay my bills after having some. It doesn't wreck me, and it is fantastic. Other strains out there have phenomenally different characteristics and effects.
And as far as flavor goes? I mean, I don't know if anyone is arguing that they're picking their weed out solely by flavor, but it is given the choice to between two relatively equal selections and one tastes like licking the bottom of a VW bus, or one that tastes like oranges, which have I bought? There's some nasty tasting stuff out there, but there's also weed that tastes like candy and hops.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:55 AM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's a remarkable amount of variety I've found at my local shops. Those 20-25% THC varieties out there, but there's also some 4% THC options; the whole gamut is present (at least around here in Portland). The interplay between THC and CBD percentages is also really important. This is why I really, really value the folks that work at the couple shops I go to. I overheard a guy at my local shop, who it was his first time smoking weed since the 70s or something. He wanted to try something, and the dudes working the counter were so stoked to help him find something really mellow that had a lower THC count; these strains still exist, but they're a bit of a niche. They're not always available at the shops I frequent, but I really expect that to change over time.
With alcohol and coffee, you're really only looking at a couple chemicals that do relatively the same thing. I mean, I'm a coffee roaster and we talk about varietals and flavors all the time, but no one is asking 'how is this caffeine going to wake me up?' Because it all operates roughly the same. Same thing with beer; no one is looking at anything other than the ABV for its chemical effects. With weed, you actually do have a pretty wide swath of experience.
I've mentioned this on askme threads, but I've found a really pleasant higher CBD strain that is the best. I can go ride a stationary bike for an hour, or clean the house, or pay my bills after having some. It doesn't wreck me, and it is fantastic. Other strains out there have phenomenally different characteristics and effects.
And as far as flavor goes? I mean, I don't know if anyone is arguing that they're picking their weed out solely by flavor, but it is given the choice to between two relatively equal selections and one tastes like licking the bottom of a VW bus, or one that tastes like oranges, which have I bought? There's some nasty tasting stuff out there, but there's also weed that tastes like candy and hops.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:55 AM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
R a c h e l: "I've found this Heineken commercial interesting lately - it specifically markets to "moderate drinkers". Is that a reaction to other brands that openly market a sort of alcoholism? I've never perceived, say, Bud Light commercials that way but I wonder if I'm just that naive."That is a really interesting commercial!
I think though that there are still important ways in which it subtly promotes themes that encourage problematic excess in a “There’s no such thing as an anti-war film” kind of way, suffused into the medium of the message. There is a non-intuitive effect where if you surreptitiously give alcohol to undergrads in an experimental setting without their knowledge, all they really report is unpleasant flu like symptoms including a headache and vague grumpiness. That is all alcohol really is without the culture or the chemical dependence. However, if you give undergrads liquid that they think is alcohol but isn't in a mock up experimental bar, they get hilarious, start stumbling around, laughing loudly, and awkwardly hitting on each other - all without any more real alcohol in them than a ripe peach would provide. Even while ostensibly promoting moderation, the commercial still promotes alcohol as a solution to loneliness, it still associates alcohol with male heroism and female sexual availability, it still associates alcohol with the kind of goal orientation that is so dangerous even if the goal is ostensibly moderation, the stumbly drunk dudes who are ostensibly being denigrated are all still impeccably dressed and attractive, it still valorizes that hot dude drinking alone at the bar even if he stops drinking, and it still presents a train of thought for justifying a first drink.
I'm not necessarily pointing this out to encourage tee-totaling with either pot or booze, but we should be careful to fight destructive corporate control over our culture, identity, and health. We've got that now with booze, and we're only beginning to beat back tobacco, but fuck gaining it with pot.
posted by Blasdelb at 10:02 AM on March 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Just as a data point, I haven't paid more than $17/g since prohibition ended here in Oregon, and I usually end up paying around 11-12/g. No real idea prices are like in WA/CO/AK. The fact that taxes are being rolled into it we should see a bump, but not by much. It depends on the shop how they're handling that.
And as far as actually finding lower THC strains, I've found Leafly really helpful not only because it will help you find similar strains to what you enjoy, but most shops around here are really good about updating their stocks on that site. If you like the medihaze I linked to above, you can just click on who has it in stock (again, at least in Portland, no real experience outside this market). Yeah, at this point it might mean driving across town to get exactly what you want, but its a small hassle if you find something that you like.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:17 AM on March 17, 2016
And as far as actually finding lower THC strains, I've found Leafly really helpful not only because it will help you find similar strains to what you enjoy, but most shops around here are really good about updating their stocks on that site. If you like the medihaze I linked to above, you can just click on who has it in stock (again, at least in Portland, no real experience outside this market). Yeah, at this point it might mean driving across town to get exactly what you want, but its a small hassle if you find something that you like.
posted by furnace.heart at 10:17 AM on March 17, 2016
Honestly for taste, the differences in strains are more obvious to me than wine or coffee (and I drink a lot of fancy hipster coffee!). And those two products are very, very heavily marketed on their "terroir".
posted by bradbane at 1:19 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bradbane at 1:19 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not necessarily pointing this out to encourage tee-totaling with either pot or booze, but we should be careful to fight destructive corporate control over our culture, identity, and health. We've got that now with booze, and we're only beginning to beat back tobacco, but fuck gaining it with pot.
I see that. As a non-smoker from WA, I've definitely had thought-provoking conversations about how the conversation around legalization also becomes a conversation around only the upsides and increased ignorance of the legitimate non-scaremongery downsides. For instance, people sometimes laugh off driving while high - and while I'm convinced it's not as bad as driving drunk (where I think the stigma is as much a dissuasion as the legal consequences), hell if I want it to be something considered generally ok to do.
posted by R a c h e l at 1:23 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I see that. As a non-smoker from WA, I've definitely had thought-provoking conversations about how the conversation around legalization also becomes a conversation around only the upsides and increased ignorance of the legitimate non-scaremongery downsides. For instance, people sometimes laugh off driving while high - and while I'm convinced it's not as bad as driving drunk (where I think the stigma is as much a dissuasion as the legal consequences), hell if I want it to be something considered generally ok to do.
posted by R a c h e l at 1:23 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
The "palate" stuff, this thin pretense that people smoke for the taste, is so ridiculous in the first place — it's so obviously born out of desperation for any differentiator at all.
Maybe I'm just a ridiculous person, but here's my anecdata: I'm in my late thirties, and had never bought weed until it was legalized in my state last summer. If my only choice at the store was "smells like dead skunk, but will fuck you up", I'd still be abstaining. Believe it or not, pot smokers aren't a monolithic (and conveniently stupid) demographic, and many of us actually do enjoy the fact that we can buy a plant that does all sorts of neat pharmacological stuff, smells like Douglas firs and cotton candy, and tastes like sage and pineapple or whatever. If you factor in the rise in popularity of vaporizing over the last decade, it becomes really hard to defend the idea that no one cares about flavor.
I think that a lot of the hysteria about the >25% THC monsters has just been the death throes of prohibitionist scare mongering. Is it somehow impossible for people to imagine that sometime folks might want a little bit of something strong and flavorful, like port, but must instead be mindlessly sucking down the equivalent of malt liquor to get obliterated? It's a really insidious idea which has been influential in recent legislation (like this) as well as arbitrary THC limits being set in newer medical states like NJ. In addition to the legal implications, this view of high THC weed is also willfully dismissive of medical users (and all health conscious users, really) who have really sound incentive to minimize their inhalation of smoke while still benefitting from the cannabinoids in weed.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 2:22 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe I'm just a ridiculous person, but here's my anecdata: I'm in my late thirties, and had never bought weed until it was legalized in my state last summer. If my only choice at the store was "smells like dead skunk, but will fuck you up", I'd still be abstaining. Believe it or not, pot smokers aren't a monolithic (and conveniently stupid) demographic, and many of us actually do enjoy the fact that we can buy a plant that does all sorts of neat pharmacological stuff, smells like Douglas firs and cotton candy, and tastes like sage and pineapple or whatever. If you factor in the rise in popularity of vaporizing over the last decade, it becomes really hard to defend the idea that no one cares about flavor.
I think that a lot of the hysteria about the >25% THC monsters has just been the death throes of prohibitionist scare mongering. Is it somehow impossible for people to imagine that sometime folks might want a little bit of something strong and flavorful, like port, but must instead be mindlessly sucking down the equivalent of malt liquor to get obliterated? It's a really insidious idea which has been influential in recent legislation (like this) as well as arbitrary THC limits being set in newer medical states like NJ. In addition to the legal implications, this view of high THC weed is also willfully dismissive of medical users (and all health conscious users, really) who have really sound incentive to minimize their inhalation of smoke while still benefitting from the cannabinoids in weed.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 2:22 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
For me, it absolutely is about the palate…I don't notice much difference, in the subjective high that various strains are purported to have on review sites like Leafly, nor do I notice much difference between marijuana at super-high potency levels, vs. not-so-high, or high-CBD vs. regular.
What I can differentiate, however, is the nose of the smoke…how it smells before, during and after you smoke it, how it burns, how it smells while burning, how acrid the smoke is, or isn't, and what the half-burned weed in the bowl smells like.
The other thing my palate is sensitive to, is bullshit, and I detect it in abundance in the florid descriptions of the effects attributed to any given strain that you are likely to read about on Leaflly, and the like...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 3:37 PM on March 17, 2016
What I can differentiate, however, is the nose of the smoke…how it smells before, during and after you smoke it, how it burns, how it smells while burning, how acrid the smoke is, or isn't, and what the half-burned weed in the bowl smells like.
The other thing my palate is sensitive to, is bullshit, and I detect it in abundance in the florid descriptions of the effects attributed to any given strain that you are likely to read about on Leaflly, and the like...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 3:37 PM on March 17, 2016
Tommy Chong already tried using his name to market paraphernalia (Chong's Bongs) and ended up in a mess of trouble with the feds during the Ashcroft era and long afterward. I'd forgive him if he wanted to stay out of that game until it's actually legalized nationwide.
posted by mubba at 6:27 PM on March 17, 2016
posted by mubba at 6:27 PM on March 17, 2016
Chong, Snoop, Willie, Melissa Etheridge, Jacob Bob Marley's ghost, and a number of other celebs are very much in the game already.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:19 PM on March 17, 2016
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:19 PM on March 17, 2016
There are also some ridiculous billboards decrying driving while stoned.
Meaning the messaging is ridiculous- it basically tells you "don't drive high!" Um- DUH??? Then again the last time I was at the airport , there was also a message at security telling people that you can't bring weed to states where it's not legal. If ever there was a time for a "full faith and credit" clause it would be now.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 9:06 PM on March 17, 2016
Meaning the messaging is ridiculous- it basically tells you "don't drive high!" Um- DUH??? Then again the last time I was at the airport , there was also a message at security telling people that you can't bring weed to states where it's not legal. If ever there was a time for a "full faith and credit" clause it would be now.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 9:06 PM on March 17, 2016
I follow Tommy Chong on FB. His posts run towards "hot young babes" and never cannabis. I imagine his release included words that forbade his mentioning the weed in public contexts. So I humor his posts and wait for a better day.
posted by telstar at 9:29 PM on March 17, 2016
posted by telstar at 9:29 PM on March 17, 2016
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Okay, sorry for the short-term memory joke. This isn't a bad article, but it read like the start of a long-form think piece and then it just ended. There's a lot to be said about what legalization might mean, and this was just too little. (I'm criticizing The Atlantic here, not you, MoonOrb.)
posted by uosuaq at 8:02 PM on March 16, 2016