You smell tomato, I smell a rat
March 26, 2016 12:19 PM Subscribe
The fight against food fraud : From meat to spices, is anything we eat what we think it is?
So what if it's soy as long as it's actually healthy and yummy
Well, apart from people with food sensitivities--
I'm fine eating soy, but I don't want to buy something that says "beef" and get soy. In other words, I don't want to be lied to and defrauded.
It's not really the company's place to say "it's just as good, so it doesn't matter and you don't even need to know." It's my money, and my right to make that choice.
There is also the issue of quality going down incrementally. It's not the case that ingredient switches must always be completely indistinguishable; they just need to be good enough for the majority of customers. It actually is a slippery slope, I think. As we become more accustomed to cost-saving adulterations and changes, companies can push even more of them on us. The line just keeps getting pushed more and more.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:33 PM on March 26, 2016 [53 favorites]
Well, apart from people with food sensitivities--
I'm fine eating soy, but I don't want to buy something that says "beef" and get soy. In other words, I don't want to be lied to and defrauded.
It's not really the company's place to say "it's just as good, so it doesn't matter and you don't even need to know." It's my money, and my right to make that choice.
There is also the issue of quality going down incrementally. It's not the case that ingredient switches must always be completely indistinguishable; they just need to be good enough for the majority of customers. It actually is a slippery slope, I think. As we become more accustomed to cost-saving adulterations and changes, companies can push even more of them on us. The line just keeps getting pushed more and more.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:33 PM on March 26, 2016 [53 favorites]
On reread, maybe I misread you and that's not what you're saying. If so, sorry, carry on.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:37 PM on March 26, 2016
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:37 PM on March 26, 2016
Lol, thanks, I agree with your thoughts. But even more we need to outlaw the crazy diet foods that screw with peoples metabolism with the fake sugars and other clever chemistry tricks. The example in the article was "is this fist real cod". Does that matter? Is is some valid healthy fish?
There's lawsuit in the local news about that dry fake "parmesan" cheese not actually being cheese. It may just be an issue of an inert "sawdust" added to keep the cheese from clumping up. Or there may not be any actual cheese in the cheese like products. And I know folks that prefer that, er, product to freshly grated.
posted by sammyo at 12:50 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's lawsuit in the local news about that dry fake "parmesan" cheese not actually being cheese. It may just be an issue of an inert "sawdust" added to keep the cheese from clumping up. Or there may not be any actual cheese in the cheese like products. And I know folks that prefer that, er, product to freshly grated.
posted by sammyo at 12:50 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The example in the article was "is this fist real cod". Does that matter? Is is some valid healthy fish?
If I was making a new recipe that demanded cod, I'd like to be sure it actually was.
posted by JHarris at 1:08 PM on March 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
If I was making a new recipe that demanded cod, I'd like to be sure it actually was.
posted by JHarris at 1:08 PM on March 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Does that matter?
Yes, of course it matters if it's being sold as cod. I might have a variety of reasons for preferring cod. It's not the company's right to decide that my reasons are invalid and that another fish is a close enough equivalent that it's alright to deceive me about what I'm buying.
Consumer health is a real concern, but it's not the only only reason that people have preferences and it's not the only reason that should be treated as valid. And I don't want other people deciding which of my reasons are valid--especially not the company whose financial interest it is to defraud me.
And I know folks that prefer that, er, product to freshly grated
So label it accurately and let them buy it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:14 PM on March 26, 2016 [43 favorites]
Yes, of course it matters if it's being sold as cod. I might have a variety of reasons for preferring cod. It's not the company's right to decide that my reasons are invalid and that another fish is a close enough equivalent that it's alright to deceive me about what I'm buying.
Consumer health is a real concern, but it's not the only only reason that people have preferences and it's not the only reason that should be treated as valid. And I don't want other people deciding which of my reasons are valid--especially not the company whose financial interest it is to defraud me.
And I know folks that prefer that, er, product to freshly grated
So label it accurately and let them buy it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:14 PM on March 26, 2016 [43 favorites]
You might care about the cod if you are 1) pregnant and avoiding mercury exposure, 2) choosing your fish based on the sustainability of the fishery, or 3) you are The Rock.
posted by peeedro at 1:16 PM on March 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 1:16 PM on March 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
Is there some problem with consumers knowing the truth?
I don't give a rat's ass what they want to sell. I do want to know what I'm paying for. If it isn't labeled clearly and truthfully as to what's in it and how it was produced and handled, it should be considered fraud.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:20 PM on March 26, 2016 [45 favorites]
I don't give a rat's ass what they want to sell. I do want to know what I'm paying for. If it isn't labeled clearly and truthfully as to what's in it and how it was produced and handled, it should be considered fraud.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:20 PM on March 26, 2016 [45 favorites]
I would always care about which fish I was buying. And every other product I was buying. While I was already really careful, now I don't even know how I will keep on buying products where I can't personally check the provenance. The example of cumin really hit hard, because I use a lot of cumin, on its own and in curries. What to do now??
posted by mumimor at 1:22 PM on March 26, 2016
posted by mumimor at 1:22 PM on March 26, 2016
And as the article points out, it's a supply chain issue. If they're not accurately identifying food that's going on the market, they can't track and recall tainted products.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:43 PM on March 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ernielundquist at 1:43 PM on March 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
"is this fist real cod". Does that matter? Is is some valid healthy fish?
I get what you're saying on this, but I think it's part of different food matter: why are stores/industry/the media insistent on peddling one particular kind of anything at a time? This is the sort of thing that makes it difficult for small-scale operations (fishing, farming) to sell to businesses, whether stores or restaurants. Instead of creating a recipe that calls for a flaky white fish, they insist on saying it must be cod and no other. Why not have that flexibility to move with what the local market offers and just have your servers inform consumers what the flaky white fish is that day?
But for this--for items you are purchasing in the store, if they tell me it's cod, I want to be buying actual cod. Not because I'm following the Rock's diet, but because I'm making that choice.
posted by carrioncomfort at 1:44 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I get what you're saying on this, but I think it's part of different food matter: why are stores/industry/the media insistent on peddling one particular kind of anything at a time? This is the sort of thing that makes it difficult for small-scale operations (fishing, farming) to sell to businesses, whether stores or restaurants. Instead of creating a recipe that calls for a flaky white fish, they insist on saying it must be cod and no other. Why not have that flexibility to move with what the local market offers and just have your servers inform consumers what the flaky white fish is that day?
But for this--for items you are purchasing in the store, if they tell me it's cod, I want to be buying actual cod. Not because I'm following the Rock's diet, but because I'm making that choice.
posted by carrioncomfort at 1:44 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I won't eat anything from China, because there's no telling what it really is.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:06 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:06 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
To give an example, in Southeast Asia there was a failure of the cumin crop in the tail-end of 2014. Cumin is sold through very complex supply chains. It’s grown in different regions of Southeast Asia, places such as Vietnam and India, and it’s transported to big processing facilities in Turkey — a big processor of herbs and spices.
Wait, this was on Silicon Valley.
posted by kafziel at 2:07 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait, this was on Silicon Valley.
posted by kafziel at 2:07 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's a serious problem for many people. If you are allergic to hazelnuts you are advised not to eat anything that has olive oil in it, because hazelnut oil is one of the things that they adulterate olive oil with. Hazelnut allergy, like a peanut allergy can result in a quick death.
As well as that the problem is things like the melamine which was a protein added to baby formula and it only killed several babies, but for a great many more it destroyed their kidneys, so their life expectancy and prognosis for a healthy life is pretty grim.
The pure food laws in the States and Europe came about because people were getting seriously sick all the time from bad stuff being mixed in. For example lard was being mixed in with the butter, and people were getting trichinae because they were using the butter without heating it and worm eggs were staying alive. There was one interesting inquiry in the British parliament where they interviewed a girl who explained that her job at the raspberry jam factory was to grind up scrap lumber in order to make the raspberry seeds.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:08 PM on March 26, 2016 [35 favorites]
As well as that the problem is things like the melamine which was a protein added to baby formula and it only killed several babies, but for a great many more it destroyed their kidneys, so their life expectancy and prognosis for a healthy life is pretty grim.
The pure food laws in the States and Europe came about because people were getting seriously sick all the time from bad stuff being mixed in. For example lard was being mixed in with the butter, and people were getting trichinae because they were using the butter without heating it and worm eggs were staying alive. There was one interesting inquiry in the British parliament where they interviewed a girl who explained that her job at the raspberry jam factory was to grind up scrap lumber in order to make the raspberry seeds.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:08 PM on March 26, 2016 [35 favorites]
her job at the raspberry jam factory was to grind up scrap lumber in order to make the raspberry seeds
Things like this make me wish I could just live on soylent and sunlight.
posted by cynical pinnacle at 2:10 PM on March 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Things like this make me wish I could just live on soylent and sunlight.
posted by cynical pinnacle at 2:10 PM on March 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
I won't eat anything from China, because there's no telling what it really is.
A big issue that the article focuses on is that you often don't actually know when it's from China. The supply chain is extremely opaque to the end consumer.
And it's not only China, in any case.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:16 PM on March 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
A big issue that the article focuses on is that you often don't actually know when it's from China. The supply chain is extremely opaque to the end consumer.
And it's not only China, in any case.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:16 PM on March 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yo, if you just want a flaky white fish and don't care what the actual species is, buy scrod. That is literally what scrod is. Scrod is just whatever random whitefish turned up in the nets/lines/traps that day. There is no such thing as a scrod.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:16 PM on March 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:16 PM on March 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
I'd like to eat real food that also isn't produced by slaves, plz.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:26 PM on March 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:26 PM on March 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
I am an engineer of technology employed in food industry and I can tell you that you're eating replacments with better tastes, cheaper purchase price and of course without any nutritional value. There's not much to say about health issue - it's allowed for consumption by health authorities.
posted by korpe4r at 2:36 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by korpe4r at 2:36 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
OK, so what I'm giving you for the "cod" isn't strictly the money you asked for, but it's something else I judge to be OK for you.
posted by Segundus at 2:46 PM on March 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 2:46 PM on March 26, 2016 [22 favorites]
The example of cumin really hit hard, because I use a lot of cumin, on its own and in curries. What to do now??
You could buy whole cumin and grind it yourself, in a coffee grinder for example. Some people will use a separate grinder for spices so that they don't get cross-mojoed with the coffee.
posted by XMLicious at 2:48 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
I recall that congress repealed the country of origin food label laws, recently. This is especially scary for meat, specifically chicken. My mind just goes out the window contemplating chicken shipped across oceans for consumption.
posted by Oyéah at 2:48 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 2:48 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am an engineer of technology employed in food industry and I can tell you that you're eating replacments with better tastes, cheaper purchase price and of course without any nutritional value. There's not much to say about health issue - it's allowed for consumption by health authorities.
So even when companies are following the rules, they're treating "maximum X ppm of contaminant Y" as a target that could help them hit profit goals, rather than a contaminant limit that they're trying to stay well under?
Huh.
I picture the meetings going like, "So we're allowed to put how much wood chips in here? Let's see how we can make that happen."
posted by clawsoon at 2:49 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
So even when companies are following the rules, they're treating "maximum X ppm of contaminant Y" as a target that could help them hit profit goals, rather than a contaminant limit that they're trying to stay well under?
Huh.
I picture the meetings going like, "So we're allowed to put how much wood chips in here? Let's see how we can make that happen."
posted by clawsoon at 2:49 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Life is so much easier now that I just stroll over to the grocery store and get what I need, but I guess there was something to be said for all the planting and weeding my parents made me do, and all the deals my Dad made with local farmers to get a side of beef for the freezer and fresh milk from their cows. For 50-80% of what we ate, we knew exactly where it came from, since we had grown it ourselves, or bought it directly from neighbours who grew it themselves.
That's not really sustainable here in the big city, though.
posted by clawsoon at 2:55 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's not really sustainable here in the big city, though.
posted by clawsoon at 2:55 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
So even when companies are following the rules, they're treating "maximum X ppm of contaminant Y" as a target that could help them hit profit goals, rather than a contaminant limit that they're trying to stay well under?
Huh.
Thanks for playing...Capitalism™!
posted by threeants at 2:57 PM on March 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
Huh.
Thanks for playing...Capitalism™!
posted by threeants at 2:57 PM on March 26, 2016 [18 favorites]
I am an engineer of technology employed in food industry and I can tell you that you're eating replacments with better tastes, cheaper purchase price and of course without any nutritional value. There's not much to say about health issue - it's allowed for consumption by health authorities.
This amuses me because of how much anti-regulation folks decry the so-called "nanny state." But if a corporation literally takes away your ability to make your own choices about your food by deceiving you and claiming it's "better for you," then...
I'm not against engineered food at all. I'm against being lied to and not knowing what I'm actually buying.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:01 PM on March 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
This amuses me because of how much anti-regulation folks decry the so-called "nanny state." But if a corporation literally takes away your ability to make your own choices about your food by deceiving you and claiming it's "better for you," then...
I'm not against engineered food at all. I'm against being lied to and not knowing what I'm actually buying.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:01 PM on March 26, 2016 [23 favorites]
The deception happens legally, and right under our noses. The Langastino lobster restaurants often advertise for their dishes isn't a regional lobster as most people assume, it's not a lobster at all---it's an entirely different critter closely related to the hermit crab. That would be like Hardee's pushing a new burger featuring real ground Iowa Veal when "Iowa Veal" is just a marketing name for ground raccoon.
It's funny how much bitching and moaning McDonald's would have to put up with if they changed the sauce or bun on the Filet-O-Fish, but no one seems to mind that they have changed they actual species they serve in it several times.
posted by sourwookie at 3:04 PM on March 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's funny how much bitching and moaning McDonald's would have to put up with if they changed the sauce or bun on the Filet-O-Fish, but no one seems to mind that they have changed they actual species they serve in it several times.
posted by sourwookie at 3:04 PM on March 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
hotdogs : baseball :: meat pies : Australian football
Like hotdogs, meat pies are mass produced, and you don't want to think too much about how. Cut-me-own-throat Dibbler would be proud.
My school chum and I were eating pies for lunch, when he pulled something that looked like a gristly piece of spaghetti from his mouth. 'What is that?' he remarked. 'Dunno', I lied. I had a pet rat, so I knew exactly what it was.
I'll only eat a pie from a bakery now. The basic rule of thumb with pies and indeed most fast food: if it started the day frozen solid, good luck.
posted by adept256 at 3:06 PM on March 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Like hotdogs, meat pies are mass produced, and you don't want to think too much about how. Cut-me-own-throat Dibbler would be proud.
My school chum and I were eating pies for lunch, when he pulled something that looked like a gristly piece of spaghetti from his mouth. 'What is that?' he remarked. 'Dunno', I lied. I had a pet rat, so I knew exactly what it was.
I'll only eat a pie from a bakery now. The basic rule of thumb with pies and indeed most fast food: if it started the day frozen solid, good luck.
posted by adept256 at 3:06 PM on March 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
But what we really really need is for one of those clever startups to repackage that "refrigerator sized computer" and "disrupt" food with a handheld tricorder food analyzer.
There might be more than one company going for this (random link below). I don't know what the fundamental physical limitations are on how far it could go:
https://www.consumerphysics.com/myscio/
posted by zeek321 at 3:08 PM on March 26, 2016
There might be more than one company going for this (random link below). I don't know what the fundamental physical limitations are on how far it could go:
https://www.consumerphysics.com/myscio/
posted by zeek321 at 3:08 PM on March 26, 2016
That would be like Hardee's pushing a new burger featuring real ground Iowa Veal when "Iowa Veal" is just a marketing name for ground raccoon.
Wait until people find out about the switcheroo involved in Rocky Mountain oysters...
posted by peeedro at 3:19 PM on March 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wait until people find out about the switcheroo involved in Rocky Mountain oysters...
posted by peeedro at 3:19 PM on March 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wait until people find out about the switcheroo involved in Rocky Mountain oysters...
Pig rectum calamari.
posted by adept256 at 3:28 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Pig rectum calamari.
posted by adept256 at 3:28 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maybe it's time for a reminder: Soylent green is people!
posted by Twang at 3:48 PM on March 26, 2016
posted by Twang at 3:48 PM on March 26, 2016
As well as that the problem is things like the melamine which was a protein added to baby formula and it only killed several babies, but for a great many more it destroyed their kidneys, so their life expectancy and prognosis for a healthy life is pretty grim.
I've told this anecdote about a million times here before, but it's still important enough to me to bear repeating: our family dog arrow got poisoned by a batch of this stuff. Poor little guy was incontinent and in slow decline for years, though mostly pretty happy still. It put a big extra burden on us as care givers, though. This stuff matters and affects real people's lives.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:21 PM on March 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
I've told this anecdote about a million times here before, but it's still important enough to me to bear repeating: our family dog arrow got poisoned by a batch of this stuff. Poor little guy was incontinent and in slow decline for years, though mostly pretty happy still. It put a big extra burden on us as care givers, though. This stuff matters and affects real people's lives.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:21 PM on March 26, 2016 [13 favorites]
Appears Dr. Scrote's Circumcision Wagon and Calamari Hut was back at Burning Man last year.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:38 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 4:38 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Man I miss Iowa veal.
posted by benzenedream at 4:44 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by benzenedream at 4:44 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Iowa veal and cheese are the things vegans miss the most, according to Breitbart.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:08 PM on March 26, 2016
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:08 PM on March 26, 2016
> My school chum and I were eating pies for lunch, when he pulled something that looked like a gristly piece of spaghetti from his mouth. 'What is that?' he remarked. 'Dunno', I lied. I had a pet rat, so I knew exactly what it was.
Wait. Are you saying it was a piece of rat, or something else disgusting which is in some way associated with rats?
posted by brennen at 5:17 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wait. Are you saying it was a piece of rat, or something else disgusting which is in some way associated with rats?
posted by brennen at 5:17 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have a pet cat, but it's not like I could look at a piece of gristle and be like "oh yeah, that definitely came from a cat."
posted by teponaztli at 5:19 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 5:19 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, I think the implication is that it was a rat tail.
posted by teponaztli at 5:20 PM on March 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 5:20 PM on March 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Ok, right, got it. 🐀
posted by brennen at 5:31 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by brennen at 5:31 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Maybe it's time for a reminder: Soylent green is people!
Man, Soylent being people would be a step up. As far as I can tell, its two main ingredients are lead and mold.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:41 PM on March 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Man, Soylent being people would be a step up. As far as I can tell, its two main ingredients are lead and mold.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:41 PM on March 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fry: What if the secret ingredient is... people!?
Leela: Oh, there's already a soda like that. Soylent Cola.
Fry: Oh, how is it?
Leela: It varies from person to person.
posted by teponaztli at 5:43 PM on March 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
Leela: Oh, there's already a soda like that. Soylent Cola.
Fry: Oh, how is it?
Leela: It varies from person to person.
posted by teponaztli at 5:43 PM on March 26, 2016 [25 favorites]
Fascinating article. And now I want to vomit (although I just had a bowl of cheetos and feel that it would be hard to make them more fake so maybe they should become the delicious cornerstone of my eating habits)
posted by biggreenplant at 5:46 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by biggreenplant at 5:46 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
melamine which was a protein added to baby formula . . .
Melamine is not a protein, but it does cause certain tests for protein content to come out higher:
Melamine is not a protein, but it does cause certain tests for protein content to come out higher:
Melamine use as non-protein nitrogen (NPN) for cattle was described in a 1958 patent.[10] In 1978, however, a study concluded that melamine "may not be an acceptable non-protein N source for ruminants" because its hydrolysis in cattle is slower and less complete than other nitrogen sources such as cottonseed meal and urea.[11]posted by jamjam at 5:49 PM on March 26, 2016 [7 favorites]
Melamine is sometimes illegally added to food products in order to increase the apparent protein content. Standard tests, such as the Kjeldahl and Dumas tests, estimate protein levels by measuring the nitrogen content, so they can be misled by adding nitrogen-rich compounds such as melamine.
The Jungle remains disappointingly relevant.
posted by TedW at 6:50 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:50 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It was a rat's tail. A piece of rat, yeah, but not Domino's twitchy pink nose or buck teeth. I didn't explore his interior, I solemnly put him in a shoebox and buried him in the garden.
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned horse meat lasagne yet. Rodents are clever vermin that will find a way. Horses aren't as well know for wandering into meat grinders. I'll add another rule of thumb to my previous: don't eat anything from Ikea. Not their meatballs, not their Tröllen bookshelf that caused our divorce.
posted by adept256 at 6:51 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned horse meat lasagne yet. Rodents are clever vermin that will find a way. Horses aren't as well know for wandering into meat grinders. I'll add another rule of thumb to my previous: don't eat anything from Ikea. Not their meatballs, not their Tröllen bookshelf that caused our divorce.
posted by adept256 at 6:51 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I doubt it was actually rat. The old arguments against there being worm meat in burgers still apply; worms/rats are not farmed industrially, so they would probably be more expensive than beef to get in any quantity. That doesn't really mean that one couldn't ever get in by accident, but it's doesn't make sense as an official ingredient someone would deliberately add. It would be easier and cheaper to get grade Z beef.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:06 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:06 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Iowa veal and cheese are the things vegans miss the most, according to Breitbart.
imagine my surprise to find that I could've been eating the prepackaged "parmesan cheese" all along, sawdust being vegan and all
posted by Gymnopedist at 7:38 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
imagine my surprise to find that I could've been eating the prepackaged "parmesan cheese" all along, sawdust being vegan and all
posted by Gymnopedist at 7:38 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
One of my FB folks recently posted a video of strawberries being sprayed with red dye, then packed for shipping. It looked like this was happening in a SE Asian country, and the man shown doing the spraying was surrounded by seriously unripe strawberries - and trash. I couldn't tell what country it could've been, but I was both repulsed by what was happening and sad for the man having to do this work in such horrid conditions.
Where I live, the fruit and vegetable markets have been selling strawberries all this winter for as little as $1.99 for a container, and just knowing that they're well out of season right now to be at such a small price point made me look askance at them. The packages all said that they were products of Florida, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were a lie.
It's like when I go to a shop and see a suspiciously cheap pair of Italian shoes that were actually made elsewhere, but sent to Italy for finishing and a label that's not legally false, but is near as dammit. Even Trader Joe's $5.99 olive oil bottles say packed in Italy. It's not actual Italian olive oil!
posted by droplet at 7:55 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Where I live, the fruit and vegetable markets have been selling strawberries all this winter for as little as $1.99 for a container, and just knowing that they're well out of season right now to be at such a small price point made me look askance at them. The packages all said that they were products of Florida, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were a lie.
It's like when I go to a shop and see a suspiciously cheap pair of Italian shoes that were actually made elsewhere, but sent to Italy for finishing and a label that's not legally false, but is near as dammit. Even Trader Joe's $5.99 olive oil bottles say packed in Italy. It's not actual Italian olive oil!
posted by droplet at 7:55 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is why I have been making my pets' food at home for the last decade. If fraud is this bad in human food, how much worse is it in pet food? The only reason it came to light was because of the number of pets who died. I feel pretty confident that there is plenty of non-lethal but non-healthful fraud being perpetrated in pet food ingredients.
posted by HotToddy at 7:57 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 7:57 PM on March 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Even Trader Joe's $5.99 olive oil bottles say packed in Italy. It's not actual Italian olive oil!
It's probably not even olive oil. I've heard that olive oil is so heavily substituted / adulterated that most consumers in the US have never had actual olive oil, to the point where they have a completely wrong idea of what it tastes like and will reject actual olive oil as tasting wrong.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:57 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's probably not even olive oil. I've heard that olive oil is so heavily substituted / adulterated that most consumers in the US have never had actual olive oil, to the point where they have a completely wrong idea of what it tastes like and will reject actual olive oil as tasting wrong.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:57 PM on March 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
mumimor and XMLicious, buying whole cumin and either using it whole or grinding it myself was exactly what I started doing so as not to kill my peanut-allergic son after recalls for peanut contamination of cumin started pouring in. But it was so much more complicated than just that. U.S. labeling law calls for the top 8 allergens (peanuts, tree nuts, dairy, eggs, soy, wheat, fish and shellfish) to be labeled in plain language on the nutrition labels of packaged foods when those allergens are INTENTIONAL ingredients -- but there is no requirement to label for the potential for accidental contamination with allergens (even when that risk is obvious and known to the manufacturer due to shared lines or sourcing issues), nor do companies have to list any other food ingredients using "plain language"-- so cumin can be listed under "natural flavoring" or "spices," which meant that I had to start calling the companies that produced every sort of packaged food that might reasonably contain cumin-- sausage, pre-formed burgers, any other kind of spiced meat, chili, salsa, barbecue sauce, spiced chips and crackers, etc., etc.-- and begging them to tell me what spices were in their food (which not every company will even actually do), or avoiding those foods altogether. And just try asking a restaurant whether they season their food with ground cumin!
Also the FDA still hasn't actually officially issued the all-clear on cumin for people with peanut allergies, even though a new harvest season has passed; my husband emailed them recently to ask whether the concern was over yet and their response basically boiled down to "It might be okay now? Probably? Maybe?"
So I've tentatively started letting my child eat sausage on restaurant pizza again but I hold my breath every time.
(I can say at least that I've had a number of good conversations with McCormick about how they source and grind their cumin and I'm pretty sure their ground cumin is the real thing. They import only whole cumin seeds, and then grind them in the U.S. So if anyone with a peanut allergy would like to not die of curry and/or if anyone who just generally likes getting the food they are paying for wants a trustworthy ground cumin source without having to home grind, I'd recommend McCormick.)
posted by BlueJae at 8:25 PM on March 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also the FDA still hasn't actually officially issued the all-clear on cumin for people with peanut allergies, even though a new harvest season has passed; my husband emailed them recently to ask whether the concern was over yet and their response basically boiled down to "It might be okay now? Probably? Maybe?"
So I've tentatively started letting my child eat sausage on restaurant pizza again but I hold my breath every time.
(I can say at least that I've had a number of good conversations with McCormick about how they source and grind their cumin and I'm pretty sure their ground cumin is the real thing. They import only whole cumin seeds, and then grind them in the U.S. So if anyone with a peanut allergy would like to not die of curry and/or if anyone who just generally likes getting the food they are paying for wants a trustworthy ground cumin source without having to home grind, I'd recommend McCormick.)
posted by BlueJae at 8:25 PM on March 26, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also, if you want real olive oil, word on the street in the food allergy community is, buy olive oil made in California. No oil from Italy is trustworthy at all, basically. And if you want to double-check that your olive oil is the real deal, put it in the fridge and see if it starts to solidify (olive oil will solidify but many fake oils won't).
posted by BlueJae at 8:28 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by BlueJae at 8:28 PM on March 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's probably not even olive oil. I've heard that olive oil is so heavily substituted / adulterated that most consumers in the US have never had actual olive oil, to the point where they have a completely wrong idea of what it tastes like and will reject actual olive oil as tasting wrong.
Yes. Grew up in Oregon, thought I knew what olive oil tasted like. Kind of sweetish-butterish-heavy with a hint of bitter.
Came to France, grandparents-not-quite-in-law had a summer home in Nyons, which is where some of the most famous French olive oil comes from. They were friends with a local lady who had an orchard and press. Entirely different universe of taste. Bittersweet, rich with no heaviness. A few years later I lived in Nice, where Bellet olive oil is made. Differing soils means different taste, but the base remains the same – Bellet olive oil is more like drinking sunlight. Neither sweet nor bitter while still being both, and a light-rich texture like nothing else I've ever had.
I was spoiled for true olive oil forever after that. I only buy stuff from local orchards now. Costs a small fortune (20 euros/liter minimum, 25-30 on average), but it's worth it. Soooo worth it. Dishes cooked with genuine olive oil are nothing like ones made in other oils.
posted by fraula at 2:56 AM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yes. Grew up in Oregon, thought I knew what olive oil tasted like. Kind of sweetish-butterish-heavy with a hint of bitter.
Came to France, grandparents-not-quite-in-law had a summer home in Nyons, which is where some of the most famous French olive oil comes from. They were friends with a local lady who had an orchard and press. Entirely different universe of taste. Bittersweet, rich with no heaviness. A few years later I lived in Nice, where Bellet olive oil is made. Differing soils means different taste, but the base remains the same – Bellet olive oil is more like drinking sunlight. Neither sweet nor bitter while still being both, and a light-rich texture like nothing else I've ever had.
I was spoiled for true olive oil forever after that. I only buy stuff from local orchards now. Costs a small fortune (20 euros/liter minimum, 25-30 on average), but it's worth it. Soooo worth it. Dishes cooked with genuine olive oil are nothing like ones made in other oils.
posted by fraula at 2:56 AM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
I remember the first time I bought California olive oil (after reading about how heavily adulterated imported oil is). I was trying to figure out what the taste reminded me of, and then I thought oh, maybe it reminds me of olives.
posted by teponaztli at 3:18 AM on March 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 3:18 AM on March 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
I buy the Californian olive oil because of those articles a few years ago, but I am sure it is only a matter of time before it is just as adulterated as the imported variety.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:00 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Dip Flash at 5:00 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
And it's not only China, in any case.
No, but China is especially bad. When I first moved to Hong Kong I scoffed at the local Hong Kong people who literally would avoid anything which came from China. The grocery stores here are full of imported produce from USA and Australia. However, given food scandal after food scandal I've come to do as the locals do and avoid Chinese products at pretty much any cost.
(My personal favourite this last year was the "organic dairy" from the Pearl River Delta which turned out not to have any cows. They were mixing water with milk powder which they bought on the open market. )
posted by frumiousb at 6:01 AM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
No, but China is especially bad. When I first moved to Hong Kong I scoffed at the local Hong Kong people who literally would avoid anything which came from China. The grocery stores here are full of imported produce from USA and Australia. However, given food scandal after food scandal I've come to do as the locals do and avoid Chinese products at pretty much any cost.
(My personal favourite this last year was the "organic dairy" from the Pearl River Delta which turned out not to have any cows. They were mixing water with milk powder which they bought on the open market. )
posted by frumiousb at 6:01 AM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's not really the company's place to say "it's just as good, so it doesn't matter and you don't even need to know." It's my money, and my right to make that choice.
But companies make those choices all the time, and it's often based on a previous choice like, "We need more money, so we're going to keep the unit price the same, but make the package smaller" Or, "we need to show growth, so we're going to raise our fees" or "our competitors are doing it, so we have to". It doesn't really matter what the rationalization is, it's all part of the race to the bottom. Pesky regulations? Don't need 'em!
posted by sneebler at 6:40 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
But companies make those choices all the time, and it's often based on a previous choice like, "We need more money, so we're going to keep the unit price the same, but make the package smaller" Or, "we need to show growth, so we're going to raise our fees" or "our competitors are doing it, so we have to". It doesn't really matter what the rationalization is, it's all part of the race to the bottom. Pesky regulations? Don't need 'em!
posted by sneebler at 6:40 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
When business complains about over-regulation, or, for that matter, any regulation at all, this is the stuff to keep in mind. Listening to the CBS Sunday Morning show just now, a General Mills representative said they make about 1/3 of the organic food sold in the US. I have no specific knowledge of GM's current level of quality, but I'm not inspired to buy their organic food. Years of news of the food industry fighting to keep information from consumers makes me incredibly untrusting.
Underlying all of it is the assumption that consumers are really stupid, that we can't be trusted to decide for ourselves. Your steak is glued together from meat parts, because did you really think Steakhouse Chain can afford a steak meal for 10 bucks? Sometimes I want a cheap fast steak-ish meal and the garlic mashed potatoes and green beans are tasty too, so I'm okay with it. I'm not okay with feeding my kid milk from cows treated with growth hormone, so I buy from the dairy that had to go to court to keep the right to say so on the label. But a lot of people won't care and will buy the cheaper brand.
And I seem to recall reading on MeFi that slaughterhouse regulations were rewritten in a way that forced small operations out of business, without really improving safety or quality, so many small meat producers are screwed. The meat processing industry has steadily screwed unions and the safety of workers and quality of meat have declined significantly. So support unions. You really think a company that screws its workers will take good care of your food? Support policy makers who will make things more open and honest, like Bernie Sanders. Vote out the House Reps who are beholden to big industries. This is an area where politics affects you very directly. Preaching to the choir here, but, jeez, I'd like to feel better about the food I eat.
posted by theora55 at 8:58 AM on March 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
Underlying all of it is the assumption that consumers are really stupid, that we can't be trusted to decide for ourselves. Your steak is glued together from meat parts, because did you really think Steakhouse Chain can afford a steak meal for 10 bucks? Sometimes I want a cheap fast steak-ish meal and the garlic mashed potatoes and green beans are tasty too, so I'm okay with it. I'm not okay with feeding my kid milk from cows treated with growth hormone, so I buy from the dairy that had to go to court to keep the right to say so on the label. But a lot of people won't care and will buy the cheaper brand.
And I seem to recall reading on MeFi that slaughterhouse regulations were rewritten in a way that forced small operations out of business, without really improving safety or quality, so many small meat producers are screwed. The meat processing industry has steadily screwed unions and the safety of workers and quality of meat have declined significantly. So support unions. You really think a company that screws its workers will take good care of your food? Support policy makers who will make things more open and honest, like Bernie Sanders. Vote out the House Reps who are beholden to big industries. This is an area where politics affects you very directly. Preaching to the choir here, but, jeez, I'd like to feel better about the food I eat.
posted by theora55 at 8:58 AM on March 27, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's probably not even olive oil. I've heard that olive oil is so heavily substituted / adulterated that most consumers in the US have never had actual olive oil, to the point where they have a completely wrong idea of what it tastes like and will reject actual olive oil as tasting wrong.
Heh. Local farm near us recently had a maple syrup taste testing. One batch Aunt Jemima, one real maple from their trees. I knew instantly, but my husband was sure that the Aunt Jemima was the real stuff because the actual syrup tasted so strong and different.
(Like a tree, basically. The real syrup tasted like sweet water with a hint of damp wood.)
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:25 AM on March 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Heh. Local farm near us recently had a maple syrup taste testing. One batch Aunt Jemima, one real maple from their trees. I knew instantly, but my husband was sure that the Aunt Jemima was the real stuff because the actual syrup tasted so strong and different.
(Like a tree, basically. The real syrup tasted like sweet water with a hint of damp wood.)
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:25 AM on March 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
What I've heard is that many brands of olive oil are completely unreliable, but oddly enough the Costco store brand, Kirkwood, has 100% legit olive oil.
posted by kafziel at 10:12 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kafziel at 10:12 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
For an embarrassingly long time, I did not realize that the olive oil we see on the shelves is almost always a mixture of oil from the flesh of the fruit and from the pit -- and that it is often pretty pit-heavy, in fact.
The rationale for this seems to be that oil from the flesh alone goes rancid too easily for it to withstand the rigors of shipping and packaging, and have the kind of shelf life consumers demand, not to mention its unsuitability for most frying.
I wonder whether the kind of experience fraula reports:
Because if you think about it, in a world of gizzards a plant which entices an animal to disperse its seeds with relatively energetically expensive fats might need more than a hard shell to make sure the bargain it offers is kept.
posted by jamjam at 11:36 AM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
The rationale for this seems to be that oil from the flesh alone goes rancid too easily for it to withstand the rigors of shipping and packaging, and have the kind of shelf life consumers demand, not to mention its unsuitability for most frying.
I wonder whether the kind of experience fraula reports:
Came to France, grandparents-not-quite-in-law had a summer home in Nyons, which is where some of the most famous French olive oil comes from. They were friends with a local lady who had an orchard and press. Entirely different universe of taste. Bittersweet, rich with no heaviness. A few years later I lived in Nice, where Bellet olive oil is made. Differing soils means different taste, but the base remains the same – Bellet olive oil is more like drinking sunlight. Neither sweet nor bitter while still being both, and a light-rich texture like nothing else I've ever had.reflects the superior flavoring of oil from the flesh alone.
Because if you think about it, in a world of gizzards a plant which entices an animal to disperse its seeds with relatively energetically expensive fats might need more than a hard shell to make sure the bargain it offers is kept.
posted by jamjam at 11:36 AM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
On google, making olive oil without the pits happens but the oil doesn't seem to be of notably higher quality or better flavor, and it's only been a reasonable thing to do with modern industrial equipment that separates oil centrifugally instead of by pressing layers of olive-mush between hemp mats.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:55 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:55 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Btws, hasn't anyone watched The Great British Bake Off (the actual British version with the little historical interludes)? People have died from companies swapping out ingredients for cheaper ones (e.g. Bradford sweets poisoning). It's more than just a corporate responsibility/transparency thing--it can be life or death.
posted by too bad you're not me at 2:28 PM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by too bad you're not me at 2:28 PM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the advantages of moving back to Greece is that I can get my olive oil once more like it's meant to be consumed. It tastes so good.
posted by ersatz at 3:58 AM on March 28, 2016
posted by ersatz at 3:58 AM on March 28, 2016
Reading up on the history of food adulteration you very swiftly get to the point where the answer to "Is any level of intentional food adulteration acceptable?" is "No!". Candy coloured with copper, red and white lead, and mercury. Milk was thinned with a lot of different things, too.
posted by caphector at 2:46 PM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by caphector at 2:46 PM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's more than just a corporate responsibility/transparency thing--it can be life or death.
On the contrary, it is a good example of exactly why corporate transparency is so goddamn important.
posted by JHarris at 4:49 PM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
On the contrary, it is a good example of exactly why corporate transparency is so goddamn important.
posted by JHarris at 4:49 PM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
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But what we really really need is for one of those clever startups to repackage that "refrigerator sized computer" and "disrupt" food with a handheld tricorder food analyzer.
posted by sammyo at 12:26 PM on March 26, 2016 [2 favorites]