Think Defence Blog's Top 25 British War Films
April 2, 2016 2:13 PM Subscribe
British defence blog Think Defence presents an idiosyncratic list of the Top 25 British War Films.
As the article's introduction puts it:
We could argue all day about the definition of a British War Film and what the best means but for this entirely unscientific list, the definition of a British War Film is one that is largely British in character. They may have been directed by non-British directors, have non-British actors and may even have been made in Hollywood or elsewhere, but they retain that element of Britishness that we all understand. So no Das Boot, Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now or other such great films.
The judging criteria does not include historical accuracy, whether the correct buttons and rank insignia were worn, or whether the film is a ‘visceral and worthy portrayal of the realities of war’ or some other such artsy bollocks, instead, it is simply enjoyability for a wet Sunday afternoon in.
The article's list is in reverse order, with embedded excerpts or trailers. The suggested Top 25 are:
1 – Zulu (1964) Wikipedia, IMDB
2 – Guns at Batasi (1964) Wikipedia, IMDB
3 – Carry On... Up the Kyhber (1968) Wikipedia, IMDB
4 – Kajaki (2014) Wikipedia, IMDB
5 – A Bridge Too Far (1977) Wikipedia, IMDB
6 – Ice Cold in Alex (1958) Wikipedia, IMDB
7 – An Ungentlemanly Act (1992) Wikipedia, IMDB
8 – Warriors (1999) Wikipedia, IMDB
9 – Went the Day Well? (1942) Wikipedia, IMDB
10 – Who Dares Wins (1982) Wikipedia, IMDB
11 – Bridge over the River Kwai (1957) Wikipedia, IMDB
12 – Lawrence of Arabia (1962) Wikipedia, IMDB
13 – The Great Escape (1963) Wikipedia, IMDB
14 – The Wild Geese (1978) Wikipedia, IMDB
15 – The Way Ahead (1944) Wikipedia, IMDB
16 – Where Eagles Dare (1968) Wikipedia, IMDB
17 – The Cruel Sea (1953) Wikipedia, IMDB
18 – My Boy Jack (2007) Wikipedia, IMDB
19 – The Battle of Britain (1969) Wikipedia, IMDB
20 – Master and Commander (2003) Wikipedia, IMDB
21 – Hannibal Brooks (1969) Wikipedia, IMDB
22 – The Guns of Navarone (1961) Wikipedia, IMDB
23 – The Dam Busters (1955) Wikipedia, IMDB
24 – The Heroes of Telemark (1965) Wikipedia, IMDB
25 – Breaker Morant (1980) Wikipedia, IMDB
As the article's introduction puts it:
We could argue all day about the definition of a British War Film and what the best means but for this entirely unscientific list, the definition of a British War Film is one that is largely British in character. They may have been directed by non-British directors, have non-British actors and may even have been made in Hollywood or elsewhere, but they retain that element of Britishness that we all understand. So no Das Boot, Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now or other such great films.
The judging criteria does not include historical accuracy, whether the correct buttons and rank insignia were worn, or whether the film is a ‘visceral and worthy portrayal of the realities of war’ or some other such artsy bollocks, instead, it is simply enjoyability for a wet Sunday afternoon in.
The article's list is in reverse order, with embedded excerpts or trailers. The suggested Top 25 are:
1 – Zulu (1964) Wikipedia, IMDB
2 – Guns at Batasi (1964) Wikipedia, IMDB
3 – Carry On... Up the Kyhber (1968) Wikipedia, IMDB
4 – Kajaki (2014) Wikipedia, IMDB
5 – A Bridge Too Far (1977) Wikipedia, IMDB
6 – Ice Cold in Alex (1958) Wikipedia, IMDB
7 – An Ungentlemanly Act (1992) Wikipedia, IMDB
8 – Warriors (1999) Wikipedia, IMDB
9 – Went the Day Well? (1942) Wikipedia, IMDB
10 – Who Dares Wins (1982) Wikipedia, IMDB
11 – Bridge over the River Kwai (1957) Wikipedia, IMDB
12 – Lawrence of Arabia (1962) Wikipedia, IMDB
13 – The Great Escape (1963) Wikipedia, IMDB
14 – The Wild Geese (1978) Wikipedia, IMDB
15 – The Way Ahead (1944) Wikipedia, IMDB
16 – Where Eagles Dare (1968) Wikipedia, IMDB
17 – The Cruel Sea (1953) Wikipedia, IMDB
18 – My Boy Jack (2007) Wikipedia, IMDB
19 – The Battle of Britain (1969) Wikipedia, IMDB
20 – Master and Commander (2003) Wikipedia, IMDB
21 – Hannibal Brooks (1969) Wikipedia, IMDB
22 – The Guns of Navarone (1961) Wikipedia, IMDB
23 – The Dam Busters (1955) Wikipedia, IMDB
24 – The Heroes of Telemark (1965) Wikipedia, IMDB
25 – Breaker Morant (1980) Wikipedia, IMDB
Oh my oh my oh my. Yes, this is quite relevant to my interests.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 2:29 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 2:29 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I came in here to hoist the Powell and Pressburger flag, but I've been beaten to it. I'm a little sad that A Matter of Life and Death isn't here, because it exists on a far out spiral arm of its own war movie galaxy, yet is still incredibly British all the same.
posted by nangua at 2:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by nangua at 2:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
As I said, an idiosyncratic list. I certainly agree with Blimp as deserving a place; comments to the original article also suggest Battle of the River Plate, Threads and '71 as deserving of inclusion.
posted by Major Clanger at 2:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Major Clanger at 2:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sad that Overlord didn't make the list. (Found footage-heavy retelling of An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge set on D-Day should be a no-brainer even by this list's standards.)
posted by pxe2000 at 2:34 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pxe2000 at 2:34 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ice Cold in Alex.....brilliant stuff.
posted by C.A.S. at 2:38 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by C.A.S. at 2:38 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I kind of love them for defining "British" as things that seem British-y to them and defining quality as things that they think are enjoyable. More lists should be like that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:38 PM on April 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:38 PM on April 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
I thought when you said idiosyncratic you were probably talking about no.10 but then I kept reading...but really, who puts Who Dares Wins above The Cruel Sea?
posted by biffa at 2:39 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by biffa at 2:39 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Dambusters March is still a reasonably popular last tune at funerals. I would guess it's mostly men of a certain age, so it's probably in decline now.
posted by pipeski at 2:41 PM on April 2, 2016
posted by pipeski at 2:41 PM on April 2, 2016
The lack of anything contemporary is a bit telling. Still, I guess it would be hard trying to make something like Four Lions count.
posted by Artw at 2:43 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:43 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lawrence of Arabia and Bridge over the River Kwai under Who Dares Wins as well... which seems like an affront to Britishness. Are we sure these guys aren't Burgundian agents or French or something?
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Guardian: yoghurt knitting sandal munchers - perfect!
posted by marienbad at 2:55 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by marienbad at 2:55 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Its Bridge on the River Kwai, suggesting not all that much attention to detail has gone in to this.
posted by biffa at 2:58 PM on April 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by biffa at 2:58 PM on April 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm glad they put "Where Eagle's Dare" on the list, even though it's entirely fictional. It's one of my favorite WWII films since I was little. It wasn't until years later that I suddenly realized the incredible creepiness of Clint Eastwood's calm delivery of "Hello..." just before he shoots somebody.
This list also reminds me that I always wanted to see some good old-fashioned biting British satirical black comedy applied to the rather baffling, ridiculous, and complicated story of The War of Jenkin's Ear, sort of like an 18th century version of a mix of Dr. Strangelove, Our Man in Havana, and In the Loop. Realistically though, you need both a writing genius and a billionaire madman willing to make a film based on that war that would somehow manage to be both historically accurate and funny, while knowing full well the entire worldwide target audience for such a venture would probably comfortably fit inside the Northampton M1 services station.
posted by chambers at 2:58 PM on April 2, 2016 [11 favorites]
This list also reminds me that I always wanted to see some good old-fashioned biting British satirical black comedy applied to the rather baffling, ridiculous, and complicated story of The War of Jenkin's Ear, sort of like an 18th century version of a mix of Dr. Strangelove, Our Man in Havana, and In the Loop. Realistically though, you need both a writing genius and a billionaire madman willing to make a film based on that war that would somehow manage to be both historically accurate and funny, while knowing full well the entire worldwide target audience for such a venture would probably comfortably fit inside the Northampton M1 services station.
posted by chambers at 2:58 PM on April 2, 2016 [11 favorites]
Its Bridge on the River Kwai, suggesting not all that much attention to detail has gone in to this.
Yes, I corrected some of the mistakes in titling, but missed that one.
(And introduced one of my own, which of course I missed on proofing and was painfully apparent on posting.)
posted by Major Clanger at 3:15 PM on April 2, 2016
Yes, I corrected some of the mistakes in titling, but missed that one.
(And introduced one of my own, which of course I missed on proofing and was painfully apparent on posting.)
posted by Major Clanger at 3:15 PM on April 2, 2016
Dambusters March is still a reasonably popular last tune at funerals. I would guess it's mostly men of a certain age, so it's probably in decline now.
Except that my 12 year old nephew has the DVD of the film, watched with delight.
Then again another nephew once told me all about Nelson's victories and at which point Nelson lost which body part culminating in his heroic death at Trafalgar. That nephew was under 4 at the time.
posted by C.A.S. at 3:19 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Except that my 12 year old nephew has the DVD of the film, watched with delight.
Then again another nephew once told me all about Nelson's victories and at which point Nelson lost which body part culminating in his heroic death at Trafalgar. That nephew was under 4 at the time.
posted by C.A.S. at 3:19 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
beerperson: "WHERE THE FUCK IS LIFE AND DEATH OF COLONEL BLIMP"
I came here to say exactly that. Powell and Pressburger were so far ahead of their time but weirdly under represented in best of lists.
posted by octothorpe at 3:21 PM on April 2, 2016
I came here to say exactly that. Powell and Pressburger were so far ahead of their time but weirdly under represented in best of lists.
posted by octothorpe at 3:21 PM on April 2, 2016
The War of Jenkins Ear!
Ridiculous circumstances but pure power politics underneath it.
I learned about this at university while writing a paper based on a read of an original print of a book about Lord Anson's circumnavigation culminating in the capture of the Acapulco Galleon carrying all the gold/silver from the Philippines. Now THAT was a military adventure.
wiki George Anson voyage around the world
posted by C.A.S. at 3:24 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ridiculous circumstances but pure power politics underneath it.
I learned about this at university while writing a paper based on a read of an original print of a book about Lord Anson's circumnavigation culminating in the capture of the Acapulco Galleon carrying all the gold/silver from the Philippines. Now THAT was a military adventure.
wiki George Anson voyage around the world
posted by C.A.S. at 3:24 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm glad they put "Where Eagle's Dare" on the list, even though it's entirely fictional. It's one of my favorite WWII films since I was little. It wasn't until years later that I suddenly realized the incredible creepiness of Clint Eastwood's calm delivery of "Hello..." just before he shoots somebody.
It's on every single Christmas which means every single Christmas I understand about 3% more of the plot. It makes an enjoyable Eastwood war twofer with the excellent, but very different and not British, Kelly's Heroes.
posted by kersplunk at 3:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's on every single Christmas which means every single Christmas I understand about 3% more of the plot. It makes an enjoyable Eastwood war twofer with the excellent, but very different and not British, Kelly's Heroes.
posted by kersplunk at 3:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Where Eagle's Dare is bloody awful. It makes no sense at all. Besides A Matter of Life and Death the list also needs Let George Do It!
posted by biffa at 3:49 PM on April 2, 2016
posted by biffa at 3:49 PM on April 2, 2016
Fucking Wild Geese is in there - I think this is maybe not a great list.
posted by Artw at 3:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Missing The Patriot.
Seriously though, Master and Commander should be higher.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Seriously though, Master and Commander should be higher.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Should include 633 Squadron because OMG LOOKIT ALL THEM MOSQUITOS
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
A Carry On movie at #3 but no How I Won the War? This list can't even be taken NON-seriously.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:38 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:38 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, no The Wind That Shakes the Barley, then.
posted by oulipian at 4:40 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 4:40 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
Came for Where Eagles Dare - was not disappointed.
Richard Burton's suave Major Smith, Eastwood's continually bewildered Lieutenant Shaffer, Mary Ure in, sadly, her penultimate film, Hammer Queen Ingrid Pitt, and everyone's favourite sinister SS Thunderbird puppet Von Hapen (Derren Nesbitt)...
...a classy and slightly incomprehensible script from Alistair MacLean...
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:42 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Richard Burton's suave Major Smith, Eastwood's continually bewildered Lieutenant Shaffer, Mary Ure in, sadly, her penultimate film, Hammer Queen Ingrid Pitt, and everyone's favourite sinister SS Thunderbird puppet Von Hapen (Derren Nesbitt)...
...a classy and slightly incomprehensible script from Alistair MacLean...
Major John Smith... and one of the reasons I'm here typing now - it was the film that my parents saw on their first date when they started courting.
Lieutenant, in the next 15 minutes we have to create enough confusion to get out of here alive.
Lt. Morris Schaffer
Major, right now you got me about as confused as I ever hope to be.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:42 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Where Eagles Dare, Guns of Navarone, Who Dares Wins. Good choices. I remember reading somewhere that Zulu was Mark Smith's favorite movie and that he watched on it on repeat for years. Maybe for good reason?
posted by destro at 4:56 PM on April 2, 2016
posted by destro at 4:56 PM on April 2, 2016
I'm moderately surprised not to see Brannagh's Henry V in the list.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 5:11 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by the duck by the oboe at 5:11 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
So, no The Wind That Shakes the Barley, then.
posted by oulipian at 4:40 PM on April 2 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Sorry, that's saved for the Irish list, as is presumably The Wild Geese. OH WAIT
Any list that ranks Lawrence (12? wtf) after Zulu is manifestly not about film. If Zulu rocks the house, one would hope The Man Who Would Be King might also feature, but no sweet love there.
No How I Won The War, no Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, no Zeppelin, no The Blue Max, no Empire of the Sun...
posted by mwhybark at 5:29 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 4:40 PM on April 2 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]
Sorry, that's saved for the Irish list, as is presumably The Wild Geese. OH WAIT
Any list that ranks Lawrence (12? wtf) after Zulu is manifestly not about film. If Zulu rocks the house, one would hope The Man Who Would Be King might also feature, but no sweet love there.
No How I Won The War, no Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, no Zeppelin, no The Blue Max, no Empire of the Sun...
posted by mwhybark at 5:29 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was hoping to see The Crying Game on this list!
posted by Pararrayos at 5:49 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Pararrayos at 5:49 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
So is there some reason no Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence?
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:11 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:11 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
a) I once heard the (probably made up) assertion that the Rebel X-wing attack through the 'canyon' on the Death Star was inspired by the fjord attack in 633 Squadron.
b) fuck yeah mosquitos
posted by j_curiouser at 6:13 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
b) fuck yeah mosquitos
posted by j_curiouser at 6:13 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am surprised that any Military history buffs could forget Waterloo
posted by adamvasco at 7:06 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by adamvasco at 7:06 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Threads, When The Wind Blows, The War Game?
Glad to see Up The Khyber high on the list - it's a real cultural document. Cruel Sea should be higher, because it is perfect, and Matter Of Life And Death should be rated well on any list where it has any sort of legitimate excuse whatsoever. And The Silent Enemy (with Sid James in a straight role) should be in the lower reaches, because it's a proper mix of fun and tension, bravado and bs.
One of my oldest friends and co-workers, with whom I shared an office in many different roles over more than two decades, had a running joke where we were British officers in a war movie where the enemy was the upper management, the readers, the advertisers, whoever was pissing in our jerry can that week. "Dammit, Carruthers, you've lost an arm!" "Dammit, Fortesque, so I have". We awarded each other medals for surviving each round of redundancies... but eventually, I copped it.
posted by Devonian at 7:10 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Glad to see Up The Khyber high on the list - it's a real cultural document. Cruel Sea should be higher, because it is perfect, and Matter Of Life And Death should be rated well on any list where it has any sort of legitimate excuse whatsoever. And The Silent Enemy (with Sid James in a straight role) should be in the lower reaches, because it's a proper mix of fun and tension, bravado and bs.
One of my oldest friends and co-workers, with whom I shared an office in many different roles over more than two decades, had a running joke where we were British officers in a war movie where the enemy was the upper management, the readers, the advertisers, whoever was pissing in our jerry can that week. "Dammit, Carruthers, you've lost an arm!" "Dammit, Fortesque, so I have". We awarded each other medals for surviving each round of redundancies... but eventually, I copped it.
posted by Devonian at 7:10 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Can't complain about Zulu.
posted by Max Power at 7:24 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Max Power at 7:24 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Damn I need real broadband, I only recognized 5 titles above The Great Escape.
What a deprived childhood I had.
posted by ridgerunner at 7:31 PM on April 2, 2016
What a deprived childhood I had.
posted by ridgerunner at 7:31 PM on April 2, 2016
I would have thought there would be more recent movies than what they listed. The few movies on the list that I have seen were very good, though, so their taste looks good from here.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:51 PM on April 2, 2016
posted by Dip Flash at 7:51 PM on April 2, 2016
The Guns of Navarone is too low for no other reason than the fabulous theme song.
posted by N-stoff at 7:54 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by N-stoff at 7:54 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you haven't seen it yet, I very much recommend Kajaki (Kilo Two Bravo is the American title). It's a superb film.
posted by dazed_one at 8:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dazed_one at 8:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Fucking Wild Geese is in there - I think this is maybe not a great list.
At least Wild Geese 2 isn't.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 11:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
At least Wild Geese 2 isn't.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 11:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, Kajaki. The rest could have been My Litttle Mermaid and 23 poor quality sequels drawn in crayon and the presence of Kajaki would make it a worthwhile list.
posted by vbfg at 12:59 AM on April 3, 2016
posted by vbfg at 12:59 AM on April 3, 2016
I just finished watching Kajaki. Holy $@%balls is that ever an intense film. The only film I can think of that compares in terms of suspense is The Wages of Fear, or Sorceror. Warning: Kajaki is not a film for the faint of heart whatsoever.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 2:31 AM on April 3, 2016
posted by LeRoienJaune at 2:31 AM on April 3, 2016
Another one missing would be The Last of the Mohicans.
j_curiouser: I once heard the (probably made up) assertion that the Rebel X-wing attack through the 'canyon' on the Death Star was inspired by the fjord attack in 633 Squadron.
Have a look at this, comparing the SW trench run with the Dam attack from Dambusters (rather than 633).
posted by biffa at 3:59 AM on April 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
j_curiouser: I once heard the (probably made up) assertion that the Rebel X-wing attack through the 'canyon' on the Death Star was inspired by the fjord attack in 633 Squadron.
Have a look at this, comparing the SW trench run with the Dam attack from Dambusters (rather than 633).
posted by biffa at 3:59 AM on April 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you haven't seen it yet, I very much recommend Kajaki (Kilo Two Bravo is the American title). It's a superb film.
But available on US Netflix as Kajaki, very confusing.
posted by octothorpe at 4:07 AM on April 3, 2016
But available on US Netflix as Kajaki, very confusing.
posted by octothorpe at 4:07 AM on April 3, 2016
I'm going to join in the Powell & Pressburger flag waving, but I want to put a good word in for One Of Our Aircraft Is Missing. It's much more of a 'straight' war film than Colonel Blimp or A Matter of Life and Death, and not as wonderful, but it has such lovely aspects to it - my favourite being that the the aircrew basically need to be saved by women and children. Some great filming inside the aircraft as well.
While I wouldn't put Went the day well above The Cruel Sea I think that it deserves to be more widely known (for nothing else, for the fact that a very young Thora Hird shoots Nazis).
posted by Vortisaur at 10:08 AM on April 3, 2016
While I wouldn't put Went the day well above The Cruel Sea I think that it deserves to be more widely known (for nothing else, for the fact that a very young Thora Hird shoots Nazis).
posted by Vortisaur at 10:08 AM on April 3, 2016
These two comments got me thinking.
It's on every single Christmas which means every single Christmas I understand about 3% more of the plot.
and
Where Eagle's Dare is bloody awful. It makes no sense at all.
Burton's performance is fantastic in that film, especially if you look at each scene in reverse order, and consider that everything his character does, including what he says and how he says it during the film is for a specific reason, and is able to keep the continuity of the character's motives seamless throughout. His character's behavior changes and adapts based on who is around him - at all times, he manages multiple layers of lies and deception so that even if two of them share their independent interactions with him, none of his lies conflict with each other, or would at least be easily explained if there was one.
When you consider Burton's performance and the character he plays that builds up to the climactic scene in the castle with the German commanders and the American prisoner, and then take a moment and compare that to the incredibly convincing "Lying by the Seat of Your Pants" skills Kevin Spacey's Keyser Söze demonstrates in The Usual Suspects, it seems to me that Major Smith's mastery of creative manipulation makes Söze's handling of the detective in the police station seem just a tad less impressive.
I'm not trying to compare the films, only the mental gymnastics and skills of Major Smith and Keyser Söze characters. With those two films being of entirely different eras and genres, I never made the connection between them until reading these two comments.
Perhaps that's why some find Where Eagles Dare irritatingly confusing - the film doesn't attempt to make the layered subterfuge of a mastermind a core part of the dramatic narrative like The Usual Suspects does. The film just expects the audience to be a bit confused and uncertain as to what's really going on from scene to scene and act to act, rather than being directly misled with a single (for the most part) narrative as in TUS, and offers all sorts of action, explosions, chases, and taking out as many of the Wehrmacht and Nazis as possible to not give you enough time to consider it and keep you guessing, so that only at the end do you see the final reveal and then are left to put the whole thing together on your own.
posted by chambers at 12:24 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's on every single Christmas which means every single Christmas I understand about 3% more of the plot.
and
Where Eagle's Dare is bloody awful. It makes no sense at all.
Burton's performance is fantastic in that film, especially if you look at each scene in reverse order, and consider that everything his character does, including what he says and how he says it during the film is for a specific reason, and is able to keep the continuity of the character's motives seamless throughout. His character's behavior changes and adapts based on who is around him - at all times, he manages multiple layers of lies and deception so that even if two of them share their independent interactions with him, none of his lies conflict with each other, or would at least be easily explained if there was one.
When you consider Burton's performance and the character he plays that builds up to the climactic scene in the castle with the German commanders and the American prisoner, and then take a moment and compare that to the incredibly convincing "Lying by the Seat of Your Pants" skills Kevin Spacey's Keyser Söze demonstrates in The Usual Suspects, it seems to me that Major Smith's mastery of creative manipulation makes Söze's handling of the detective in the police station seem just a tad less impressive.
I'm not trying to compare the films, only the mental gymnastics and skills of Major Smith and Keyser Söze characters. With those two films being of entirely different eras and genres, I never made the connection between them until reading these two comments.
Perhaps that's why some find Where Eagles Dare irritatingly confusing - the film doesn't attempt to make the layered subterfuge of a mastermind a core part of the dramatic narrative like The Usual Suspects does. The film just expects the audience to be a bit confused and uncertain as to what's really going on from scene to scene and act to act, rather than being directly misled with a single (for the most part) narrative as in TUS, and offers all sorts of action, explosions, chases, and taking out as many of the Wehrmacht and Nazis as possible to not give you enough time to consider it and keep you guessing, so that only at the end do you see the final reveal and then are left to put the whole thing together on your own.
posted by chambers at 12:24 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Hill: Connery sweats swellishy.
posted by mule98J at 2:10 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by mule98J at 2:10 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yet another who came in specifically to shout "BLIMP?!"
Though I love A Matter of Life and Death, it is not a war film but a film that happens to be set during a war. There is a Powell & Pressburger that appears to be bucolic but is entirely about WWII: A Canterbury Tale.
posted by Hogshead at 2:20 PM on April 3, 2016
Though I love A Matter of Life and Death, it is not a war film but a film that happens to be set during a war. There is a Powell & Pressburger that appears to be bucolic but is entirely about WWII: A Canterbury Tale.
posted by Hogshead at 2:20 PM on April 3, 2016
A Bridge Too Far is a great movie, with a ridiculously stacked cast: "Starring Dirk Bogarde, James Caan, Michael Caine, Sean Connery, Edward Fox, Elliott Gould, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Hardy Krüger, Laurence Olivier, Ryan O'Neal, Robert Redford, Maximilian Schell, Liv Ullman." I started counting Academy Award nominations and wins but couldn't keep track.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:32 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:32 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm moderately surprised not to see Brannagh's Henry V in the list.
It's both more British and better than most of the movies on the list.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:34 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Good to see Master and Commander in there: watching the film got me into Patrick O'Brian's marvellous Aubrey / Maturin series of books. If you have any interest at all in historical fiction, please, please pick up the first one (which is "Master and Commander"), and be prepared for the best few months of your life as you immerse yourself in the remaining 20 or so.
But this list needs a bit more Royal Navy:-
Sink the Bismark (Best final line ever:- "Four stripes on his arm and he don't even know what time of day it is")
In which we serve (no upper lips have ever been stiffer)
A bit more Royal Air Force:-
Reach for the sky. (Lose both your legs and still want to fly Spitfires? No problem.)
... And a bit more PoW escaperdom:-
The Wooden Horse (one of the most remarkable escapes of WWII)
posted by genesta at 4:49 AM on April 4, 2016
But this list needs a bit more Royal Navy:-
Sink the Bismark (Best final line ever:- "Four stripes on his arm and he don't even know what time of day it is")
In which we serve (no upper lips have ever been stiffer)
A bit more Royal Air Force:-
Reach for the sky. (Lose both your legs and still want to fly Spitfires? No problem.)
... And a bit more PoW escaperdom:-
The Wooden Horse (one of the most remarkable escapes of WWII)
posted by genesta at 4:49 AM on April 4, 2016
Is The Longest Day not British enough? Also agreed on In Which We Serve. And Threads.
This list could have gone to 35, for sure.
posted by bonaldi at 9:32 AM on April 4, 2016
This list could have gone to 35, for sure.
posted by bonaldi at 9:32 AM on April 4, 2016
As a back-to-back film night complement to "A Bridge Too Far", "Theirs Is The Glory" (IMDB) shows a re-enactment of Operation Market Garden using some of the troops who were actually in that battle - truly, the faces of that fight.
Also, for the other side of the "An Ungentlemanly Act" coin, there's "Blessed by Fire" (IMDB), showing the Argentinian side of the war, including how harshly the conscripts were treated - the Brits weren't the only enemy of the Argentinian rank & file.
Thanks for sharing!
posted by milnews.ca at 1:10 PM on April 4, 2016
Also, for the other side of the "An Ungentlemanly Act" coin, there's "Blessed by Fire" (IMDB), showing the Argentinian side of the war, including how harshly the conscripts were treated - the Brits weren't the only enemy of the Argentinian rank & file.
Thanks for sharing!
posted by milnews.ca at 1:10 PM on April 4, 2016
P.S.: Curious - why the hate on for Wild Geese?
posted by milnews.ca at 1:14 PM on April 4, 2016
posted by milnews.ca at 1:14 PM on April 4, 2016
Have a look at this, comparing the SW trench run with the Dam attack from Dambusters (rather than 633).
This is great, and I want a version of the Death Star attack entirely dubbed over with British RAF pilots. "Look at the size of that thing!" vs "My goodness, it's big, isn't it?"
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:20 AM on April 5, 2016
This is great, and I want a version of the Death Star attack entirely dubbed over with British RAF pilots. "Look at the size of that thing!" vs "My goodness, it's big, isn't it?"
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:20 AM on April 5, 2016
Funny, I remember watching Dam Busters in the late seventies because I had read about it's influence on Star Wars and remember thinking how ancient it looked but it was only a little over twenty years old at the time. Now Star Wars is twice that old.
posted by octothorpe at 4:49 AM on April 5, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 4:49 AM on April 5, 2016
EndsOfInvention, ask and you shall receive...
Star Wars a la Dambusters (SLYT)
posted by Major Clanger at 7:05 AM on April 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Star Wars a la Dambusters (SLYT)
posted by Major Clanger at 7:05 AM on April 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nice!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 10:01 AM on April 5, 2016
posted by EndsOfInvention at 10:01 AM on April 5, 2016
P.S.: Curious - why the hate on for Wild Geese?
No hate, the film's great. We're joking about Irish versus British identity; the mercenaries in the film are named after an Irish mercenary force, so pretending to be upset that the film's included as a British film is a way of mocking British imperialism (the film is unambiguously a British film).
posted by mwhybark at 11:20 AM on April 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
No hate, the film's great. We're joking about Irish versus British identity; the mercenaries in the film are named after an Irish mercenary force, so pretending to be upset that the film's included as a British film is a way of mocking British imperialism (the film is unambiguously a British film).
posted by mwhybark at 11:20 AM on April 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
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