Haters gonna hate, baby.
April 3, 2016 12:13 PM Subscribe
"A hater can be anyone. A family member, a friend, a colleague, a teacher, a boss, or some random person you meet on the street or the Internet. People who were friends forever can suddenly be haters. You HAVE to have the tools to deal with it." The Ultimate Cheat Sheet for Dealing With Haters.
Very practical and helpful. Haters are getting so much attention that is taking away from so much good going on around us.
When all you do is “note” something to yourself, it at least separates it out from the non-stop chatter in the head. It lets you identify it and put it in it’s own special cage. This makes it easier to identify and deal with and maybe even learn something about yourself.
Rather than put it all on the hater, why not be a little inquisitive and ask myself why I'm so bothered. Scary but empowering. Redirect, redirect, redirect.
posted by waving at 12:28 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
When all you do is “note” something to yourself, it at least separates it out from the non-stop chatter in the head. It lets you identify it and put it in it’s own special cage. This makes it easier to identify and deal with and maybe even learn something about yourself.
Rather than put it all on the hater, why not be a little inquisitive and ask myself why I'm so bothered. Scary but empowering. Redirect, redirect, redirect.
posted by waving at 12:28 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Does this sound as smarmy to everybody as it does to me?
I had a few posts where I stole the same image of a woman doing yoga poses on a beach. I got some criticism for always using images of a sexy woman. I also got criticism for taking the images and not giving credit.
Then the woman in the images actually wrote me. I told her I was getting this criticism.
She told me her whole beautiful story which I included in my last book...
posted by signal at 12:38 PM on April 3, 2016 [46 favorites]
I had a few posts where I stole the same image of a woman doing yoga poses on a beach. I got some criticism for always using images of a sexy woman. I also got criticism for taking the images and not giving credit.
Then the woman in the images actually wrote me. I told her I was getting this criticism.
She told me her whole beautiful story which I included in my last book...
posted by signal at 12:38 PM on April 3, 2016 [46 favorites]
Do real people actually experience the world in this manner?
posted by yesster at 12:46 PM on April 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by yesster at 12:46 PM on April 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
The nice thing about writing an article about haters is that when anyone hates on it you get to seem clever. You may not want to hear that, but it's true, and if you disagree I have highly evolved coping mechanisms for dealing with it.
posted by phooky at 12:46 PM on April 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by phooky at 12:46 PM on April 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Just wanna say thanks for this FPP on "hater". For years I have been saying "sounds like you drank a 6 pack of Haterade this morning" to folks who got all up in my grill, but I didn't actually know what the term meant. Keep learning is my motto!
posted by todayandtomorrow at 12:50 PM on April 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by todayandtomorrow at 12:50 PM on April 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
I find that the best way to deal with haters is to never do anything ever.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:58 PM on April 3, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:58 PM on April 3, 2016 [19 favorites]
and what if he does have a "lazy, mumbling speech"? - it might be put rudely, or be rude to say so, but sometimes you learn things that way that your friends are too nice to tell you
unless, of course, you just call whoever says it a hater
posted by pyramid termite at 1:01 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
unless, of course, you just call whoever says it a hater
posted by pyramid termite at 1:01 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah well, mefites gonna mefite.
posted by happyroach at 1:03 PM on April 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 1:03 PM on April 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Someone tweeted awhile ago: “James Altucher = #humangarbage”. I don’t know why he tweeted it.
Altucher's name sounded familiar; this caused me to remember where I'd read about him. It was in this insightful and angry article about a little stunt he pulled.
I do not believe Altucher is human garbage for that reason or any other, but if he really had inquired into the cause of this hating of haters, perhaps he would have found something to think over.
Personally, I, well, hate the word "haters." Its use suggests the user thinks they're some kind of pop celebrity in the middle of a jealous melange of competitors. No. There are lots of people who will hate you for no reason, depending on who you are -- racists, bigots, misogynists, backbiters, more and more -- but "haters" is such an adolescent term. Using it earnestly is the verbal equivalent of a tattoo proclaiming that only God can judge you.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:04 PM on April 3, 2016 [47 favorites]
Altucher's name sounded familiar; this caused me to remember where I'd read about him. It was in this insightful and angry article about a little stunt he pulled.
I do not believe Altucher is human garbage for that reason or any other, but if he really had inquired into the cause of this hating of haters, perhaps he would have found something to think over.
Personally, I, well, hate the word "haters." Its use suggests the user thinks they're some kind of pop celebrity in the middle of a jealous melange of competitors. No. There are lots of people who will hate you for no reason, depending on who you are -- racists, bigots, misogynists, backbiters, more and more -- but "haters" is such an adolescent term. Using it earnestly is the verbal equivalent of a tattoo proclaiming that only God can judge you.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:04 PM on April 3, 2016 [47 favorites]
It's nice that we have this new word that can be used to dismiss any and all criticism.
Some "criticism" is delivered with a clear intent to hurt people rather than as a plain critique, which is something else entirely. I think that was the point of the article.
posted by waving at 1:09 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Some "criticism" is delivered with a clear intent to hurt people rather than as a plain critique, which is something else entirely. I think that was the point of the article.
posted by waving at 1:09 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am reeeeally confused by the stolen image anecdote. He says he was criticized for always using images of sexy women and for stealing the image without credit. But the moral of the story is...that the woman in the image wrote to him and told him people will love him, hate him, or not care about him??
So, where do those people who a) point out copyright infringement and b) critique the continual use of sexy images of women (and probably not even getting deep into the whole male gaze thing or the aspect of appropriation of yoga or that thing where people conflate yoga with sexiness or whatever IDK the context) fit? None of that's hating.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 1:10 PM on April 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
So, where do those people who a) point out copyright infringement and b) critique the continual use of sexy images of women (and probably not even getting deep into the whole male gaze thing or the aspect of appropriation of yoga or that thing where people conflate yoga with sexiness or whatever IDK the context) fit? None of that's hating.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 1:10 PM on April 3, 2016 [9 favorites]
I actually completely agree with this bit and as a result, I hope I can remember this anytime some rando pops into my Twitter mentions with his two cents about feminism/veganism, etc.:
People have said, “I am really glad I found out why that random stranger called me human garbage” on their death bed exactly zero times in the history of the universe.
I'm finally learning to not waste my time with assholes on the Internet, but I still let it get to me sometimes. I need to remember that these bums are not important in the grand scheme of my life.
posted by Kitteh at 1:19 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
People have said, “I am really glad I found out why that random stranger called me human garbage” on their death bed exactly zero times in the history of the universe.
I'm finally learning to not waste my time with assholes on the Internet, but I still let it get to me sometimes. I need to remember that these bums are not important in the grand scheme of my life.
posted by Kitteh at 1:19 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
> It was in this insightful and angry article about a little stunt he pulled.
Which was itself discussed on MetaFilter.
posted by postcommunism at 1:25 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Which was itself discussed on MetaFilter.
posted by postcommunism at 1:25 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Some "criticism" is delivered with a clear intent to hurt people rather than as a plain critique, which is something else entirely. I think that was the point of the article.
The problem is that "hater" is such a vague, meaningless term it's used to dismiss all critiques as just empty attacks. Especially online, I often see "fuck the haters" in response to almost any criticism of a movie, show, or song.
Even in the author's own example of someone criticizing his audiobook performance, is that "delivered with a clear intent to hurt people"? It's somewhat rudely put, but it's a valid point of critique that the author has bad delivery to the point that it hurt the listener's experience. I listen to a lot of podcasts and, unfortunately, find that many people just don't have a "voice for radio", or their delivery is poor, or if there are multiple hosts their chemistry/banter is poor. It does detract from what they're trying to present, however interesting the topic may be. I've stopped listening to podcasts for that reason.
pipeski, the term is just a lazy excuse to avoid having to address any criticism. It ends up hurting yourself, too, because if you refuse to engage with any criticism you're never going to get any better. Maybe the author could be a better reader for audio books, but he'll never become better if he ignores everyone who doesn't tell him he's great.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:28 PM on April 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
The problem is that "hater" is such a vague, meaningless term it's used to dismiss all critiques as just empty attacks. Especially online, I often see "fuck the haters" in response to almost any criticism of a movie, show, or song.
Even in the author's own example of someone criticizing his audiobook performance, is that "delivered with a clear intent to hurt people"? It's somewhat rudely put, but it's a valid point of critique that the author has bad delivery to the point that it hurt the listener's experience. I listen to a lot of podcasts and, unfortunately, find that many people just don't have a "voice for radio", or their delivery is poor, or if there are multiple hosts their chemistry/banter is poor. It does detract from what they're trying to present, however interesting the topic may be. I've stopped listening to podcasts for that reason.
pipeski, the term is just a lazy excuse to avoid having to address any criticism. It ends up hurting yourself, too, because if you refuse to engage with any criticism you're never going to get any better. Maybe the author could be a better reader for audio books, but he'll never become better if he ignores everyone who doesn't tell him he's great.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:28 PM on April 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
The thing about saying to myself: "These randos on the internet are not important". Is that the converse is true; to the wider world I am the rando on the internet, and I do not matter at all.
The thing about saying to myself: "what you do matters, what you do is special, and your thoughts are meaningful and special and deserve to be shared. " Is that the converse is true; what I get back is going to be from people who believe the same thing with the same justification.
However you choose to categorize everyone else, you are part of everyone else for everyone else. So choose categories carefully.
posted by Grimgrin at 1:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [18 favorites]
The thing about saying to myself: "what you do matters, what you do is special, and your thoughts are meaningful and special and deserve to be shared. " Is that the converse is true; what I get back is going to be from people who believe the same thing with the same justification.
However you choose to categorize everyone else, you are part of everyone else for everyone else. So choose categories carefully.
posted by Grimgrin at 1:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [18 favorites]
I am guessing that the author should not be reading his own audio books.
posted by LarryC at 1:48 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by LarryC at 1:48 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know it sounds adolescent, but I actually like the word "hater" - it helps me distinguish valid criticism, which I can use, from stuff that I should just tune out of my mind ASAP, ideally with the aid of Taylor Swift. Valid criticism is concrete, actionable, and targeted at something you are doing. "Your voice sounds monotone on that recording and it would be easier to listen to if you varied your pitch and tone more" is criticism. Haterism (?) is broad, doesn't propose any steps you can take to address it, and is targeted at something that you are. "Your voice is incredibly boring and listening to you talk makes me want to die" calls for the Taylor Swift treatment.
posted by Aravis76 at 1:52 PM on April 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Aravis76 at 1:52 PM on April 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
The thing is, the main points the author is saying are consistent with CBT. Now CBT may not have the concept of "hater", but the idea that anyone can engage in hate as a kind of fear reaction--and in turn, that providing a basis for empathic cognition--that theory is recognised in therapeutic contexts. For example, his point III, being attentive to your feelings (and more generally wherever the article says to "note" your own reactions to a situation)--these ideas are taught in CBT therapy and can be very helpful.
Anyways, its a casual article, so its presentation is problematic, but the ideas do find some support in psychology. Take-away: learn more about psychology!
posted by polymodus at 1:53 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anyways, its a casual article, so its presentation is problematic, but the ideas do find some support in psychology. Take-away: learn more about psychology!
posted by polymodus at 1:53 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
The thing about saying to myself: "These randos on the internet are not important". Is that the converse is true; to the wider world I am the rando on the internet, and I do not matter at all.
The thing about saying to myself: "what you do matters, what you do is special, and your thoughts are meaningful and special and deserve to be shared. " Is that the converse is true; what I get back is going to be from people who believe the same thing with the same justification.
However you choose to categorize everyone else, you are part of everyone else for everyone else. So choose categories carefully.
posted by Grimgrin at 1:33 PM on April 3
This comment sums up much of my own thinking on this subject, some many years ago when I first chose this username and paid my $5 to join metafilter.com
posted by some loser at 2:13 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
The thing about saying to myself: "what you do matters, what you do is special, and your thoughts are meaningful and special and deserve to be shared. " Is that the converse is true; what I get back is going to be from people who believe the same thing with the same justification.
However you choose to categorize everyone else, you are part of everyone else for everyone else. So choose categories carefully.
posted by Grimgrin at 1:33 PM on April 3
This comment sums up much of my own thinking on this subject, some many years ago when I first chose this username and paid my $5 to join metafilter.com
posted by some loser at 2:13 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Criticism can be paralyzing to some people -- any criticism. Such people find all negative criticisms to be destructive, because...well...to these people, they are. Even amazing success doesn't make them any better at dealing with critics. These people are fragile and are often bad news to have around. They feel attacked by critical voices -- which are sometimes voices that need to be heard -- and they will react as an attacked person would. I would advise caution in dealing with those too concerned with "the haters," always.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:18 PM on April 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:18 PM on April 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
I was getting a defensive, not-great vibe from the piece already, and then when I hit that bit about him being bummed about people criticizing him for stealing the image of the sexy yoga woman...yeah. I agree with mixed metaphors--he is clueless. Here's the whole anecdote:
Reading that Medium article about him that Countess Elena linked only confirmed my opinion.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:24 PM on April 3, 2016 [17 favorites]
I had a few posts where I stole the same image of a woman doing yoga poses on a beach. I got some criticism for always using images of a sexy woman. I also got criticism for taking the images and not giving credit.I mean, WTF? That's what he took away from that criticism? Nothing about stealing other people's images, nothing about objectifying women? He comes across as so unselfaware, I'm shaking my head.
Then the woman in the images actually wrote me. I told her I was getting this criticism.
She told me her whole beautiful story which I included in my last book. But one thing she said was that for every creative thing you do: 1/3 will love you, 1/3 will hate you, and 1/3 won’t care.
Which means you should do what you love. You should do the best you can. You should try to do the things that will help you improve every day. And when bad comments come, just put them in that 1/3 bucket where it belongs.
Reading that Medium article about him that Countess Elena linked only confirmed my opinion.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:24 PM on April 3, 2016 [17 favorites]
This author seems to lack any self awareness or reflective abilities at all. I mean for most people, the very first thing they do is ask themselves if their hater actually has a point? Of course, if he was reading this I'm sure he'd tell me it's all about me, delete my comment, imagine me having ugly sex and write an article about it with a stolen image. These aren't tools for haters, they're tools so you never have to do any work on yourself.
posted by Jubey at 2:31 PM on April 3, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 2:31 PM on April 3, 2016 [18 favorites]
Put me squarely in the 'haters' camp, because holy crap does Altucher come across as an asshole going through life with blinders on. I hope he enjoys ignoring and deleting me and imagining me fornicating.
posted by dazed_one at 3:04 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by dazed_one at 3:04 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's nice that we have this new word that can be used to dismiss any and all criticism.
Typical hater
posted by iamck at 3:15 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Typical hater
posted by iamck at 3:15 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
1/3 will hate, 1/3 will love, 1/3 won't care: Does it matter, really, the proportions?
I took that to mean that regardless of anything else, one can never please everyone, so some criticism/hate is unavoidable regardless of whether it's deserved.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:15 PM on April 3, 2016
I took that to mean that regardless of anything else, one can never please everyone, so some criticism/hate is unavoidable regardless of whether it's deserved.
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:15 PM on April 3, 2016
James Altucher has been sort of an anti-role model for me these past few years. When I can gather up the strength to read his writing without gagging, it gives me occasion to reflect on how I can live a better, more honest, more genuine life.
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 3:18 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 3:18 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Negative comments about Altucher tend to activate his sea lion defense squad; I wonder if they'll find this thread.
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 3:21 PM on April 3, 2016
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 3:21 PM on April 3, 2016
the converse is true; to the wider world I am the rando on the internet, and I do not matter at all
sonder, n. the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own—populated with their own ambitions, friends, routines, worries and inherited craziness—an epic story that continues invisibly around you like an anthill sprawling deep underground, with elaborate passageways to thousands of other lives that you’ll never know existed, in which you might appear only once, as an extra sipping coffee in the background, as a blur of traffic passing on the highway, as a lighted window at dusk.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [19 favorites]
sonder, n. the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own—populated with their own ambitions, friends, routines, worries and inherited craziness—an epic story that continues invisibly around you like an anthill sprawling deep underground, with elaborate passageways to thousands of other lives that you’ll never know existed, in which you might appear only once, as an extra sipping coffee in the background, as a blur of traffic passing on the highway, as a lighted window at dusk.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [19 favorites]
That's a good video to watch if you want to wash away the insipid dregs of the Altucher piece, BTW. More thought-provoking and far better-made.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:35 PM on April 3, 2016
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:35 PM on April 3, 2016
sonder yt , n. the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own
I wonder if there's a word for the realization that each random passerby is living a life as dull and simple as your own.
posted by Sangermaine at 4:09 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
I wonder if there's a word for the realization that each random passerby is living a life as dull and simple as your own.
posted by Sangermaine at 4:09 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
"lupépiphany"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:23 PM on April 3, 2016
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:23 PM on April 3, 2016
What works for me is not imagining people having ugly sex, but imagining them doing the dishes. Imagining wrinkly hands in dirty soapy water, putting away damp dishes, after a disappointing dinner where the steak came out more well-done than they planned.
posted by monospace at 4:26 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by monospace at 4:26 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Reading that article certainly made me understand why he has to spend so much time thinking about haters.
posted by KateViolet at 4:32 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by KateViolet at 4:32 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I kind of hate this guy.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 4:53 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 4:53 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
10. Time Heals All Wounds:
True - we'll all be dead soon.
The older I get the more I find myself transitioning from cynicism to some form of existential nihilism. By all means listen to people in your life you love and/or respect but don't waste too much time fretting over what the other 99.999% of people think because your time is running out.
posted by MikeMc at 5:10 PM on April 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
True - we'll all be dead soon.
The older I get the more I find myself transitioning from cynicism to some form of existential nihilism. By all means listen to people in your life you love and/or respect but don't waste too much time fretting over what the other 99.999% of people think because your time is running out.
posted by MikeMc at 5:10 PM on April 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Call me a hater, but "30/30/30" is not the same thing as "⅓ /⅓ /⅓." Grrrr.
posted by Charity Garfein at 5:13 PM on April 3, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Charity Garfein at 5:13 PM on April 3, 2016 [14 favorites]
I read this piece as another way of looking for cooperative, rather than combative communication. Haters are combative communicators - they're saying something to provoke, to step through your boundaries.
What he said about friends of 20 years ... wow that rang so close to home. I just had a friend of 7 years pull this shit, and I cut her abruptly out of my life.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 5:54 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
What he said about friends of 20 years ... wow that rang so close to home. I just had a friend of 7 years pull this shit, and I cut her abruptly out of my life.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 5:54 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
The hatee has become the hater.
posted by ostranenie at 6:12 PM on April 3, 2016
posted by ostranenie at 6:12 PM on April 3, 2016
For instance, in the above review, the reviewer said, “the poor miserable audience”. Maybe her fear is of being poor and miserable and so she hears someone saying that to her no matter who is talking. This is her problem in life right now.I'm pretty sure that's not her problem. I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe that's her problem.
posted by eotvos at 6:24 PM on April 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
The whole "anger = fear" thing always struck me as a little too pat.
posted by rhizome at 6:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 6:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
His point #2, the idea that basically if you just ignore people they will leave you alone, proves that he's yet again talking about white/male/whatever privilege rather than any wider way the world works.
Because, ask Zoe Quinn, if you ignore people they won't just go away and leave you alone.
posted by sotonohito at 7:06 PM on April 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
Because, ask Zoe Quinn, if you ignore people they won't just go away and leave you alone.
posted by sotonohito at 7:06 PM on April 3, 2016 [10 favorites]
Anger is not always fear so from the get go I was feeling a bit weird. Not everyone who is mad is afraid. Usually when I'm mad I'm confident, bold and believe in whatever I'm saying.
Yes, there are plenty of people who do random things for random reasons, and sometimes that is fear.
I also pomise anyone who has had a 20 year relationship with a person put some thought into whatever went down. It may not make sense, it might or may not be fear but it wasn't a just cuz and the followup should not be immediate dismissal of the relationship ending.
Everyone has a piece and of course Random internet haters are random Internet haters. But not all of it is about fear and not all of it should be dusmissed. Pay attention and you can learn something, then shake it off.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:23 PM on April 3, 2016
Yes, there are plenty of people who do random things for random reasons, and sometimes that is fear.
I also pomise anyone who has had a 20 year relationship with a person put some thought into whatever went down. It may not make sense, it might or may not be fear but it wasn't a just cuz and the followup should not be immediate dismissal of the relationship ending.
Everyone has a piece and of course Random internet haters are random Internet haters. But not all of it is about fear and not all of it should be dusmissed. Pay attention and you can learn something, then shake it off.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:23 PM on April 3, 2016
Do real people actually experience the world in this manner?
Are self-promoters real people?
posted by sneebler at 7:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are self-promoters real people?
posted by sneebler at 7:33 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Self promoters are sentient blobs of Marketing.
posted by benzenedream at 7:48 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 7:48 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
This guy pukes up a constant flow of dreck directed at the self help crowd. His shtick is that he is a successful (whatever) and he fails and then has success and fails and- well, you get the idea. Reductivist claptrap seems to be his stock in trade.
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 8:00 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 8:00 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, I give him credit for admitting to getting death threats. I can't remember hearing any guys admitting to such. But I would have liked to have heard how the hell he deals with that stuff. Like, it's one thing to have "haters" and QUITE ANOTHER THING to say, get the GamerGate treatment. It's one thing to "shake it off" and ignore the haters, but it's quite another when the haters are actively trying to stalk/attack/ruin your life and you literally cannot ignore it.
But maybe he's too white and privileged to have to deal with that problem.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:03 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
But maybe he's too white and privileged to have to deal with that problem.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:03 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm taken aback by Altucher which is likely his appeal for me, a shy person. Taking a piece of what he's espoused has HELPED MY LIFE:
1. YEARS AGO shy step-son: giving him $2 bills for the waitresses...hair-cut people he frequents. the kid was 10, they all remembered him AND WELCOMED HIM. at 12 he folded them into origami hearts for Valentine's Day. a complicated task, "just wait, they'll have a smile on their face when they SEE THIS." yes. they did. no one found it weird or creepy.
2. Some of us can't stand up to our parents; be they Living or Dead. Altucher helped me say, "NO!" then "Hell NO!" to a parent who had never parented me/my husband (we were both in similar circumstance.)
for this there is no end to my gratitude.
otherwise he's M. Scott Peck without the credentials. 9/10's of his stuff reflects entitled culture.
THE OTHER 10% helped people like me, my step-son, our family.
posted by Twist at 9:35 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
1. YEARS AGO shy step-son: giving him $2 bills for the waitresses...hair-cut people he frequents. the kid was 10, they all remembered him AND WELCOMED HIM. at 12 he folded them into origami hearts for Valentine's Day. a complicated task, "just wait, they'll have a smile on their face when they SEE THIS." yes. they did. no one found it weird or creepy.
2. Some of us can't stand up to our parents; be they Living or Dead. Altucher helped me say, "NO!" then "Hell NO!" to a parent who had never parented me/my husband (we were both in similar circumstance.)
for this there is no end to my gratitude.
otherwise he's M. Scott Peck without the credentials. 9/10's of his stuff reflects entitled culture.
THE OTHER 10% helped people like me, my step-son, our family.
posted by Twist at 9:35 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well, I give him credit for admitting to getting death threats.
I've always kind of wondered about this. I'm sure it is important to take every death treat seriously, but I sure don't. I've been threatened with death or mortal trauma in bars, online, as a meat slicer in the Kroger deli, as an EMT, on the road, on the street. "I'm gonna kill you!" is just as natural as rain back in the hills of West Virginia. Here in San Francisco where I live now sometimes people do take it seriously, I guess. I've never found it fruitful to threaten people. It sure will interfere with killing them if you do. Sometimes I think threatening someone with death is a way of saying you are pissed off, but you won't kill them.
posted by poe at 12:26 AM on April 4, 2016
I've always kind of wondered about this. I'm sure it is important to take every death treat seriously, but I sure don't. I've been threatened with death or mortal trauma in bars, online, as a meat slicer in the Kroger deli, as an EMT, on the road, on the street. "I'm gonna kill you!" is just as natural as rain back in the hills of West Virginia. Here in San Francisco where I live now sometimes people do take it seriously, I guess. I've never found it fruitful to threaten people. It sure will interfere with killing them if you do. Sometimes I think threatening someone with death is a way of saying you are pissed off, but you won't kill them.
posted by poe at 12:26 AM on April 4, 2016
I'd never heard of this guy and can think of many, many writers I think who have better things to teach me simply based on the my perception of his competence and "unreliable narrator" clues he sprinkled about in this piece.
Number 1 clue was the superficial bit about "everyone who says anything negative is just self hating and insecure." This seems such a common cliche and I've never seen it demonstrated to be s true fact and really anything more than a cliche. It's like the "most people use 10% of their brains" nugget. Or the "if you roll your eyes back like that they'll stick that way forever." It gets repeated, but if it's true I'd really like to see the evidence.
Maybe in some circumstances it is true, but I'd be surprised if invariably.
I've also known d-bags with big egos who believed that people hated them because those other people were insecure, but really it was because those other people didn't like the d-bag doing things like stealing their work or taking credit for things they hadn't worked on. This seems similar to the story about posting someone else's photos of pretty girls doing yoga. Hmm, clue #2.
I thought about saying something snarky when I saw the dude's picture since I thought he somewhat resembled a certain former child actor movie star. But that probably is really just being a "hater" since he presumably only has limited control over how he looks. It is rather tempting to snark, though, since my dislike for many aspects of the piece bled over into my perception of his appearance.
posted by clickingmongrel at 12:45 AM on April 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Number 1 clue was the superficial bit about "everyone who says anything negative is just self hating and insecure." This seems such a common cliche and I've never seen it demonstrated to be s true fact and really anything more than a cliche. It's like the "most people use 10% of their brains" nugget. Or the "if you roll your eyes back like that they'll stick that way forever." It gets repeated, but if it's true I'd really like to see the evidence.
Maybe in some circumstances it is true, but I'd be surprised if invariably.
I've also known d-bags with big egos who believed that people hated them because those other people were insecure, but really it was because those other people didn't like the d-bag doing things like stealing their work or taking credit for things they hadn't worked on. This seems similar to the story about posting someone else's photos of pretty girls doing yoga. Hmm, clue #2.
I thought about saying something snarky when I saw the dude's picture since I thought he somewhat resembled a certain former child actor movie star. But that probably is really just being a "hater" since he presumably only has limited control over how he looks. It is rather tempting to snark, though, since my dislike for many aspects of the piece bled over into my perception of his appearance.
posted by clickingmongrel at 12:45 AM on April 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
I got to the example of relatives being haters for telling you to bathe and thought... Nope I'm in the side of all the moms in the world, here.
If your family won't tell you it's time to bathe because they think that's being a hater, you will grow up to have no friends because you stink.
I'm also on the side of the carers (mostly women) who end up in charge of elderly relatives... Same problem sometimes.
posted by chapps at 6:52 AM on April 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
If your family won't tell you it's time to bathe because they think that's being a hater, you will grow up to have no friends because you stink.
I'm also on the side of the carers (mostly women) who end up in charge of elderly relatives... Same problem sometimes.
posted by chapps at 6:52 AM on April 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Many moons ago, on the advice of a trusted friend, I read one of this guy's books: Choosing Yourself. Most of the book was a lot of the same self-help platitudes I'd seen elsewhere. Bland, inoffensive pablum, really. The part that made my blood boil was when he described a business a friend of his had created and made $300,000 off of: rent-to-own Laptops. $20 a week to rent a laptop for a year that cost $200.
That this is the sort of exploitive behavior a guy like James Altucher would choose to promote in a self-help book is bad enough. It's clear that this guy doesn't give a shit who he hurts, as long as he does well for himself. It taints even the parts of his advice that are valid.
posted by SansPoint at 7:43 AM on April 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
That this is the sort of exploitive behavior a guy like James Altucher would choose to promote in a self-help book is bad enough. It's clear that this guy doesn't give a shit who he hurts, as long as he does well for himself. It taints even the parts of his advice that are valid.
posted by SansPoint at 7:43 AM on April 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
He reminds me a bit of Penelope Trunk (hope I have this name right), in that his writing combines self-help platitudes with self-destructive and anti-social behavior.
It's an interesting niche.
posted by grobstein at 9:33 AM on April 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's an interesting niche.
posted by grobstein at 9:33 AM on April 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
I also like the idea of "unreliable narrator clues" in the text. Yeah! It almost reads as though it is deliberately creating the impression of un-self-awareness, as perhaps it is.
Not that a more typical presentation of these ideas would be more self-aware, but that this one chooses it's examples as though to push that particular envelope. The bit about family hatering you to bathe!
I guess the razor explanation is just that dude really is that unreflective, but he reads like a character written to be unreflective -- as you say, an unreliable narrator.
A danger of working as a writer like this, building a brand of constant engagement, maybe is that you turn yourself into a chat bot. You're producing text rather than communicating. Is this a game, a put-on -- or is it just that James Altucher wouldn't pass a Turing test?
posted by grobstein at 9:43 AM on April 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not that a more typical presentation of these ideas would be more self-aware, but that this one chooses it's examples as though to push that particular envelope. The bit about family hatering you to bathe!
I guess the razor explanation is just that dude really is that unreflective, but he reads like a character written to be unreflective -- as you say, an unreliable narrator.
A danger of working as a writer like this, building a brand of constant engagement, maybe is that you turn yourself into a chat bot. You're producing text rather than communicating. Is this a game, a put-on -- or is it just that James Altucher wouldn't pass a Turing test?
posted by grobstein at 9:43 AM on April 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
The most useful thing about this topic I've ever come across in life is, I'm somewhat ashamed to admit, derives from a bit of dialog from the old tv show "The White Shadow":
25 percent of the people you meet in life will like you for the right reasons, 25 percent will like you for the wrong reasons, 25 percent will dislike you for the wrong reasons, but the group you have to pay attention to are the 25 percent who will dislike you for the right reasons.
posted by Chitownfats at 11:06 AM on April 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
25 percent of the people you meet in life will like you for the right reasons, 25 percent will like you for the wrong reasons, 25 percent will dislike you for the wrong reasons, but the group you have to pay attention to are the 25 percent who will dislike you for the right reasons.
posted by Chitownfats at 11:06 AM on April 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
I do have quite strong feelings about Altucher, and that's mainly because of my own shame, or maybe it's not something I need feel shame about.
Anyway, I saw him linked to at a time when I was unaware that my own sets of rules on how not to be an asshole were a prison around me, and I thought "hey, that's great, look at all that effort I need not be expending", and I read through his back catalogue excitedly, but felt too constrained to really see it as anything but proof of how much of a pompous stuck-up windbag I was. I didn't really carry on reading, because I didn't get much from it. Then I looked back at him a year or two later and thought "hey, I did unbutton myself a little, and it was good". I suspect he's actually just as un-self-aware as he presents, though, and gets away with it through all the kind of NLP tricks that un-self-aware assholes who become successful pick up along the way because they find it's the only way to stop people hating them.
posted by ambrosen at 2:44 PM on April 4, 2016
Anyway, I saw him linked to at a time when I was unaware that my own sets of rules on how not to be an asshole were a prison around me, and I thought "hey, that's great, look at all that effort I need not be expending", and I read through his back catalogue excitedly, but felt too constrained to really see it as anything but proof of how much of a pompous stuck-up windbag I was. I didn't really carry on reading, because I didn't get much from it. Then I looked back at him a year or two later and thought "hey, I did unbutton myself a little, and it was good". I suspect he's actually just as un-self-aware as he presents, though, and gets away with it through all the kind of NLP tricks that un-self-aware assholes who become successful pick up along the way because they find it's the only way to stop people hating them.
posted by ambrosen at 2:44 PM on April 4, 2016
Self promoters are sentient blobs of Marketing.
Hey, woah, let's be honest here: Very few would probably qualify as sentient.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:42 PM on April 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hey, woah, let's be honest here: Very few would probably qualify as sentient.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:42 PM on April 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by pipeski at 12:26 PM on April 3, 2016 [29 favorites]