clowns were the creepiest of all
April 11, 2016 6:57 PM Subscribe
The fourth prediction was that things that make a person unpredictable also predict creepiness. One item among the ratings of creepy individuals (“I am uncomfortable because I cannot predict how he or she will behave”) and one item among the items assessing beliefs about creepy people (“Even though someone may seem creepy, I usually think that I understand his or her intentions”) allowed a direct test of this prediction.— McAndrew, F. T., & Koehnke, S. S. (2016). On the nature of creepiness. New Ideas in Psychology, 43, 10–15
Great paper. I'm really surprised nothing like this has been done before.
I have to admit though, that upon reading the descriptions of a creeper, I realized I should never talk to people on the bus again because I have unkempt hair, bags under my eyes, too pale of skin, and people have a hard time wrapping their mind around how I can have gratitude for everything (an inappropriate emotional reaction). Thanks McAndrew and cohorts, you did not help my social anxiety.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 7:24 PM on April 11, 2016
I have to admit though, that upon reading the descriptions of a creeper, I realized I should never talk to people on the bus again because I have unkempt hair, bags under my eyes, too pale of skin, and people have a hard time wrapping their mind around how I can have gratitude for everything (an inappropriate emotional reaction). Thanks McAndrew and cohorts, you did not help my social anxiety.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 7:24 PM on April 11, 2016
The second most frequently mentioned creepy hobby (listed by 108 participants) involved some variation of “watching.” Watching, following, or taking pictures of people (especially children) was thought to be creepy by many of our participants, and bird watchers were considered creepy by many as well.
Wait, what? That was all making sense until the bird watching part. Maybe it's the binoculars?
posted by isthmus at 7:30 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait, what? That was all making sense until the bird watching part. Maybe it's the binoculars?
posted by isthmus at 7:30 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe the focus group were all birds?
posted by nfalkner at 7:31 PM on April 11, 2016 [46 favorites]
posted by nfalkner at 7:31 PM on April 11, 2016 [46 favorites]
Creepy pretty much equals unappealing people who aren't shamed into ceding social space / forgoing social initiative in the way that the way most unappealing people are.
Which still leaves two major divisions -- those who don't know what is expected of them, and those who do but refuse to accept it out of pride or hostility.
posted by MattD at 8:05 PM on April 11, 2016 [7 favorites]
Which still leaves two major divisions -- those who don't know what is expected of them, and those who do but refuse to accept it out of pride or hostility.
posted by MattD at 8:05 PM on April 11, 2016 [7 favorites]
Anyone know the word for "creepy" in Spanish? I've never felt like I'm translating it properly.
posted by anshuman at 8:43 PM on April 11, 2016
posted by anshuman at 8:43 PM on April 11, 2016
The paper's authors attribute creepiness to "anxiety aroused by the ambiguity of whether there is something to fear or not and/or by the ambiguity of the precise nature of the threat."
As they describe it, it's where you feel that someone is acting oddly and might be a danger, but not in any actionable way. Being forced to potentially choose between being rude or cold to someone who may mean you no harm or ignoring your instincts about someone who might.
posted by justkevin at 8:50 PM on April 11, 2016 [32 favorites]
As they describe it, it's where you feel that someone is acting oddly and might be a danger, but not in any actionable way. Being forced to potentially choose between being rude or cold to someone who may mean you no harm or ignoring your instincts about someone who might.
posted by justkevin at 8:50 PM on April 11, 2016 [32 favorites]
3.4. Creepiness of hobbies
Just for fun, we asked our participants to list two hobbies that they thought of as creepy. Easily, the most frequently mentioned creepy hobbies involved collecting things (listed by 341 of our participants). Collecting dolls, insects, reptiles, or body parts such as teeth, bones, or fingernails was considered especially creepy.
The carefree intro to this section "Just for fun..." kind of stood out to me. "Oh, I know what would be fun! Let's ask about creepy hobbies!"
Maybe it's even a little creepy that they thought *this* would be fun
posted by jasper411 at 8:59 PM on April 11, 2016 [11 favorites]
Just for fun, we asked our participants to list two hobbies that they thought of as creepy. Easily, the most frequently mentioned creepy hobbies involved collecting things (listed by 341 of our participants). Collecting dolls, insects, reptiles, or body parts such as teeth, bones, or fingernails was considered especially creepy.
The carefree intro to this section "Just for fun..." kind of stood out to me. "Oh, I know what would be fun! Let's ask about creepy hobbies!"
Maybe it's even a little creepy that they thought *this* would be fun
posted by jasper411 at 8:59 PM on April 11, 2016 [11 favorites]
Creepy pretty much equals unappealing people who aren't shamed into ceding social space / forgoing social initiative in the way that the way most unappealing people are.
I didn't get this from the article, and certainly not from my own experiences of finding people creepy. The reason "unpredictable behavior" can be creepy is because it involves violating social boundaries, for example, the rule against accosting strangers to tell them your life story or your obsession with their blonde hair or sexual fantasies you have had. That is a big violation and someone who does that might do, well, anything, including assault. Thus, they are threatening and thus creepy.
"Unappealing" is a pretty vague term, here. Unless I am looking to meet someone for dating purposes, I don't care if people are physically appealing or not to me; I'm just going about my business and want not to be harassed. In a social situation, or a work situation, if someone bothers to be clean and groomed (social norm #1), and also talks to me in a relaxed way that doesn't involve inappropriate sexual commentary, lecturing diatribes, or leering at my boobs (social norm #2), we'll probably do fine regardless of their rank on the hotness scale.
posted by emjaybee at 9:05 PM on April 11, 2016 [35 favorites]
I didn't get this from the article, and certainly not from my own experiences of finding people creepy. The reason "unpredictable behavior" can be creepy is because it involves violating social boundaries, for example, the rule against accosting strangers to tell them your life story or your obsession with their blonde hair or sexual fantasies you have had. That is a big violation and someone who does that might do, well, anything, including assault. Thus, they are threatening and thus creepy.
"Unappealing" is a pretty vague term, here. Unless I am looking to meet someone for dating purposes, I don't care if people are physically appealing or not to me; I'm just going about my business and want not to be harassed. In a social situation, or a work situation, if someone bothers to be clean and groomed (social norm #1), and also talks to me in a relaxed way that doesn't involve inappropriate sexual commentary, lecturing diatribes, or leering at my boobs (social norm #2), we'll probably do fine regardless of their rank on the hotness scale.
posted by emjaybee at 9:05 PM on April 11, 2016 [35 favorites]
justkevin has a great way of describing it.
I've said around here before that a person who's creepy tends to ignore your no and keep on coming, but they also tend to do it in ambiguous circumstances so that you can't be 100% convinced they're an asshole and run or scream or something. You have to walk this super uncomfortable fine line between being courteous like they're a normal person/so you don't set them off, and being straight up afraid of them for reasons you may or may not be able to explain and trying to figure out some subtle means of escape so that you don't set off the crazy.
Another creepy thing to me are people who talk to themselves in public. People who are talking to themselves in public--loudly enough for me to hear it--generally don't have any social boundaries, probably aren't living in the same reality that we are, and you don't know what they're going to do, but they're making darned sure you pay attention to them.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:08 PM on April 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
I've said around here before that a person who's creepy tends to ignore your no and keep on coming, but they also tend to do it in ambiguous circumstances so that you can't be 100% convinced they're an asshole and run or scream or something. You have to walk this super uncomfortable fine line between being courteous like they're a normal person/so you don't set them off, and being straight up afraid of them for reasons you may or may not be able to explain and trying to figure out some subtle means of escape so that you don't set off the crazy.
Another creepy thing to me are people who talk to themselves in public. People who are talking to themselves in public--loudly enough for me to hear it--generally don't have any social boundaries, probably aren't living in the same reality that we are, and you don't know what they're going to do, but they're making darned sure you pay attention to them.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:08 PM on April 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
Wait, what? That was all making sense until the bird watching part. Maybe it's the binoculars?
&
The paper's authors attribute creepiness to "anxiety aroused by the ambiguity of whether there is something to fear or not and/or by the ambiguity of the precise nature of the threat."
Justkevin got to the core of it before I hit post, but I'd say the main two factors in why 'watchers' can sometimes be seen as creepy are:
One, unlike other jobs, hobbies, and activities such as surfing or car restoration, for example, the enjoyment process is very internalized. This makes it harder to relate to and imagine if you're not familiar with it. I'm not into surfing, but I can picture what it involves and why people dig it.
Two, the skills and equipment required do not obviously indicate their intent. While there is nothing creepy in itself about bird watching, the methods and equipment used - a certain amount of stealth, surveillance equipment like binoculars, cameras, and even long-range microphones, recording the activities, number, type, and behavior of their subject - are nearly identical to those who would use those same things for creepy and illegal activities, like peeping, stalking, and such.
At a glance, you can tell what the person with a surfboard and swimming trunks is into, or the person with a wrench, an oil filter, and wearing a ratty shirt with grease and oil stains might be doing. However, a glance at a person with a camera with a zoom lens, binoculars, and a notepad, slowly and silently wandering about, maybe with mud on their shoes and their trouser legs is doing isn't so clear and obvious.
posted by chambers at 9:10 PM on April 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
&
The paper's authors attribute creepiness to "anxiety aroused by the ambiguity of whether there is something to fear or not and/or by the ambiguity of the precise nature of the threat."
Justkevin got to the core of it before I hit post, but I'd say the main two factors in why 'watchers' can sometimes be seen as creepy are:
One, unlike other jobs, hobbies, and activities such as surfing or car restoration, for example, the enjoyment process is very internalized. This makes it harder to relate to and imagine if you're not familiar with it. I'm not into surfing, but I can picture what it involves and why people dig it.
Two, the skills and equipment required do not obviously indicate their intent. While there is nothing creepy in itself about bird watching, the methods and equipment used - a certain amount of stealth, surveillance equipment like binoculars, cameras, and even long-range microphones, recording the activities, number, type, and behavior of their subject - are nearly identical to those who would use those same things for creepy and illegal activities, like peeping, stalking, and such.
At a glance, you can tell what the person with a surfboard and swimming trunks is into, or the person with a wrench, an oil filter, and wearing a ratty shirt with grease and oil stains might be doing. However, a glance at a person with a camera with a zoom lens, binoculars, and a notepad, slowly and silently wandering about, maybe with mud on their shoes and their trouser legs is doing isn't so clear and obvious.
posted by chambers at 9:10 PM on April 11, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think this is the same reason photographers often run into trouble with the police. "Creepy" is very much a social construct, and the boundaries can shift over time, even within the same culture.
posted by Kevin Street at 9:25 PM on April 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Kevin Street at 9:25 PM on April 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
I wonder why they chose "asked to take a picture of friend" as one of the criteria. It seems to me that it's far more creepy to take someone's picture without asking, or even (as happened once to my sister) take someone's picture without asking and then walk up and show them. He also asked her if I was her brother, which ticks another box. If it's more creepy to ask (because it creates ambiguity), then that's interesting.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 9:35 PM on April 11, 2016
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 9:35 PM on April 11, 2016
Can I just say that it's a unique challenge to be an anxiety-prone person out and about with someone suffering from medical issues that cause others to judge them as "creepy". (The "creepy" person doesn't GAF)
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:51 PM on April 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:51 PM on April 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
“I am uncomfortable because I cannot predict how he or she will behave”
I read somewhere that being tickled is a similar situation - the victim doesn't know where the perpetrator's next touch will land. And that's why you can't tickle yourself - you know where your fingers are going. I loath being tickled.
posted by Beti at 10:03 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I read somewhere that being tickled is a similar situation - the victim doesn't know where the perpetrator's next touch will land. And that's why you can't tickle yourself - you know where your fingers are going. I loath being tickled.
posted by Beti at 10:03 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm always paranoid that others think I am creepy. Perhaps the resulting anxiety makes me look wily and unpredictable.
posted by constantinescharity at 10:31 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by constantinescharity at 10:31 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
If it's more creepy to ask (because it creates ambiguity), then that's interesting.
In the situations where strangers ask to take pictures of me, it's more of a power-play than an ambiguity. Someone just took a random picture? Whatever, it might not be me. Asking to take a picture of me specifically? That's a power play. I get to say no, and then what? I get to say yes, and then what? The creepiness isn't located in what I'll do -- it's in what they'll do.
posted by E. Whitehall at 11:41 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
In the situations where strangers ask to take pictures of me, it's more of a power-play than an ambiguity. Someone just took a random picture? Whatever, it might not be me. Asking to take a picture of me specifically? That's a power play. I get to say no, and then what? I get to say yes, and then what? The creepiness isn't located in what I'll do -- it's in what they'll do.
posted by E. Whitehall at 11:41 PM on April 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anyone know the word for "creepy" in Spanish? I've never felt like I'm translating it properly.
AFAIK there is no direct translation. Creepy-scary could be inquietante, a creeper hitting on you and ignoring boundaries would be a baboso (as in he's "drooling over you"), an old person creeping on young girls or boys is a viejo/a verde ("perverted geezer"), an unkempt person talking to themselves in the street would be a tío raro/ tía rara ("weird dude/tte"), and so on.
posted by sukeban at 11:54 PM on April 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
AFAIK there is no direct translation. Creepy-scary could be inquietante, a creeper hitting on you and ignoring boundaries would be a baboso (as in he's "drooling over you"), an old person creeping on young girls or boys is a viejo/a verde ("perverted geezer"), an unkempt person talking to themselves in the street would be a tío raro/ tía rara ("weird dude/tte"), and so on.
posted by sukeban at 11:54 PM on April 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh, and that weirdo with a fascination for gruesome or macabre things like murders or corpses is a morboso/a.
posted by sukeban at 12:05 AM on April 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sukeban at 12:05 AM on April 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
To what Sukeban said, one addition:
A violent creep is a "chungo". This is in Spain, I bet South American countries have different slang for this.
posted by kandinski at 2:42 AM on April 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
A violent creep is a "chungo". This is in Spain, I bet South American countries have different slang for this.
posted by kandinski at 2:42 AM on April 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
For instance, Billy Bob Thornton in Bad Santa es un Papá Noel chungo.
posted by kandinski at 2:55 AM on April 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kandinski at 2:55 AM on April 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
It did not come in a form I could read, PDF with tiny print. Any way to see this better?
posted by mermayd at 3:27 AM on April 12, 2016
posted by mermayd at 3:27 AM on April 12, 2016
mermayd: I'm not sure if this is better or worse, but here it is as a paste.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 3:56 AM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 3:56 AM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Much better, thanks hatecraft! I would not want to miss out on all that creepiness.
posted by mermayd at 4:10 AM on April 12, 2016
posted by mermayd at 4:10 AM on April 12, 2016
Another creepy thing to me are people who talk to themselves in public. People who are talking to themselves in public--loudly enough for me to hear it--generally don't have any social boundaries, probably aren't living in the same reality that we are, and you don't know what they're going to do, but they're making darned sure you pay attention to them.
Or they're using a Bluetooth headset, which is just as bad.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:47 AM on April 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Or they're using a Bluetooth headset, which is just as bad.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:47 AM on April 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
This research could be repackaged as "How to get a seat by yourself on the bus".
posted by srboisvert at 5:18 AM on April 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:18 AM on April 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
A lot of stats in that piece, but I'm left wondering just how "creepiness" is distinguished from simple fear on the one hand and from das Unheimliche on the other. Maybe Tom Servo put it best:
"Oh, "C" is for that feeling of uncertainty for not quite knowing what ethnic group you're from. "R" is for the gifts you give me every time you smile. The first "E" is for--uh, well, I don't really know. But the second "E" is really a grammatical thing 'cause otherwise it would be "Crepy Girl," and where would that leave us? The "P" is definitely not for "platonic." And "Y?" Because I love you!"posted by octobersurprise at 5:45 AM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Some thoughts on male vs. female creeps (I am female). I have encountered creepy men who were also scary, the kind you do not want to get into an elevator with at a conference. This based on wild eyes and things the person had said in a group setting, but otherwise normal appearance. The unpredictability factor is a big thing.
Female creeps I do not perceive as frightening but annoying. An example, a woman at my gym who is universally regarded as creepy, both for her appearance and for her manner and actions. I do not generally find homeless people creepy, just sad, and some a bit scary who are aggressive and obviously mentally ill. This woman looks like a homeless woman, she is dirty, smells bad, and her clothes are old, ragged and filthy. But she owns a home, has a more or less normal husband who comes with her, they have a very nice car and from her conversation, are not wanting for money. A large part of her creepiness is how incongruous it is. This a very friendly gym with mostly retired people in the morning, ranging from the very fit to those who are working hard despite some disability. It is not a place where everyone is young and buff and dresses well by any means, but this woman stands out by being so dirty and unkempt.
She talks endlessly and inappropriately to anyone who will listen, including details of her sex life and other personal information to people she does not know, and she tries to draw others into disclosing private information in response to her. She is totally unaware of cues that other people are ignoring her, just babbles on and on, and mostly she sits on the exercise bike or in the lobby and tries to discourage others from working out; she is there because her husband swims. Nobody is mean to her, people including me try to be polite, but she is really the creepiest person I have encountered in a long time, and she is utterly unaware of how others see her.
posted by mermayd at 5:49 AM on April 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Female creeps I do not perceive as frightening but annoying. An example, a woman at my gym who is universally regarded as creepy, both for her appearance and for her manner and actions. I do not generally find homeless people creepy, just sad, and some a bit scary who are aggressive and obviously mentally ill. This woman looks like a homeless woman, she is dirty, smells bad, and her clothes are old, ragged and filthy. But she owns a home, has a more or less normal husband who comes with her, they have a very nice car and from her conversation, are not wanting for money. A large part of her creepiness is how incongruous it is. This a very friendly gym with mostly retired people in the morning, ranging from the very fit to those who are working hard despite some disability. It is not a place where everyone is young and buff and dresses well by any means, but this woman stands out by being so dirty and unkempt.
She talks endlessly and inappropriately to anyone who will listen, including details of her sex life and other personal information to people she does not know, and she tries to draw others into disclosing private information in response to her. She is totally unaware of cues that other people are ignoring her, just babbles on and on, and mostly she sits on the exercise bike or in the lobby and tries to discourage others from working out; she is there because her husband swims. Nobody is mean to her, people including me try to be polite, but she is really the creepiest person I have encountered in a long time, and she is utterly unaware of how others see her.
posted by mermayd at 5:49 AM on April 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
AFAIK there is no direct translation.
I like the varied Spanish vocabulary that you've described. TFA notwithstanding, the comments here indicate that the English word "creepy" is overloaded: it's definitely a linguistic failure that the same word denotes, for example, both the baboso/chungo and the tío raro/ tía rara. It's very unhelpful to have the same word, "creepy", used in different contexts to express either a reasonable perception of a threat (as from a baboso) or disturbing intolerance of the mentally ill.
posted by busted_crayons at 6:01 AM on April 12, 2016
I like the varied Spanish vocabulary that you've described. TFA notwithstanding, the comments here indicate that the English word "creepy" is overloaded: it's definitely a linguistic failure that the same word denotes, for example, both the baboso/chungo and the tío raro/ tía rara. It's very unhelpful to have the same word, "creepy", used in different contexts to express either a reasonable perception of a threat (as from a baboso) or disturbing intolerance of the mentally ill.
posted by busted_crayons at 6:01 AM on April 12, 2016
Another creepy thing to me are people who talk to themselves in public. People who are talking to themselves in public--loudly enough for me to hear it--generally don't have any social boundaries, probably aren't living in the same reality that we are, and you don't know what they're going to do, but they're making darned sure you pay attention to them.
As someone who will occasionally absent mindedly mutter to herself when lost in thought, you can be damn sure I'm not doing it to make sure you or anyone else pays attention to me. If I didn't have to speak to - or interact at all with - people outside of my partner and friends at all, that'd be perfect.
posted by Dysk at 6:06 AM on April 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
As someone who will occasionally absent mindedly mutter to herself when lost in thought, you can be damn sure I'm not doing it to make sure you or anyone else pays attention to me. If I didn't have to speak to - or interact at all with - people outside of my partner and friends at all, that'd be perfect.
posted by Dysk at 6:06 AM on April 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I tick a few boxes on the creepy checklist. I'm not defensive about this, nor does it instill empathy in me for others who display the same creepy traits I do. Instead, it only makes me fear and distrust myself. I don't want to hurt anybody, and I have no intention of hurting anybody, but I know I'm capable of hurting somebody, so what if someday my desires and intentions suddenly change? Other people who are similar to me do horrifying things, so what's stopping me? A few micrograms of brain chemicals and some electrical impulses, nothing more. I live in constant fear of myself.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:56 AM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:56 AM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
As someone who will occasionally absent mindedly mutter to herself when lost in thought, you can be damn sure I'm not doing it to make sure you or anyone else pays attention to me.
I doubt people are really hearing you when you do that. The ones that freak me out are talking loudly on the street or bus.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:23 AM on April 12, 2016
I doubt people are really hearing you when you do that. The ones that freak me out are talking loudly on the street or bus.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:23 AM on April 12, 2016
With the "talking to oneself in public" thing:
1. I always remember that somewhere the great, great Samuel Delany wrote that over the course of a lifetime, everyone makes a disastrous mess of themselves in public at least three times. I think that at least some of the time, what we read as 'creepy' is really someone having a total collapse - death in the family, personal disaster of some kind, etc.
2. I admit that when people are talking "to themselves" but clearly are in some other world, it's a bit eerie. And when people are angrily ranting to themselves it can be frightening, because you don't know whether you should help them in some way, and if you do help them, are they just going to turn the anger on you? I will always remember the first time I ever saw a mentally ill homeless person - I was pretty small, and Reagan had gotten rid of most of the mental health facilities. I'd never even seen a homeless person, and there was this little old woman walking behind my mother and me, ranting angrily about something that wasn't real. It was pretty scary to me as a kid. I remember my mother explaining that now people had nowhere to go.
But I don't really equate "eerie" and "scary" with "creepy". To me, "creepy" has to carry some active intent of interaction with it - it's creepy if someone gloms onto you and won't leave you alone. In fact, for me, realizing that a person absolutely can't help it because they aren't aware of it removes the feeling of creepiness. It doesn't always remove the annoyance, of course.
3. All of this is different from just doing a little self-mumbling in public, on the "goddamn am I tired, and now I forgot the shopping list" or "but clearly Hopkinson is a utopian writer..." variety.
4. Distress and creepiness, a thing that worries me. I feel like there ought to be a grey area between "good boundaries" and "bad boundaries" that encompasses temporary and/or overwhelming distress. That is, it's bad boundaries for someone to tell you random things about their sexual history out of the blue, but it's not bad boundaries for someone who is in immediate distress to tell you that someone sexually harassed them just now, even if they are a stranger. And yet I feel like very little slack is cut for this.
posted by Frowner at 7:29 AM on April 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
1. I always remember that somewhere the great, great Samuel Delany wrote that over the course of a lifetime, everyone makes a disastrous mess of themselves in public at least three times. I think that at least some of the time, what we read as 'creepy' is really someone having a total collapse - death in the family, personal disaster of some kind, etc.
2. I admit that when people are talking "to themselves" but clearly are in some other world, it's a bit eerie. And when people are angrily ranting to themselves it can be frightening, because you don't know whether you should help them in some way, and if you do help them, are they just going to turn the anger on you? I will always remember the first time I ever saw a mentally ill homeless person - I was pretty small, and Reagan had gotten rid of most of the mental health facilities. I'd never even seen a homeless person, and there was this little old woman walking behind my mother and me, ranting angrily about something that wasn't real. It was pretty scary to me as a kid. I remember my mother explaining that now people had nowhere to go.
But I don't really equate "eerie" and "scary" with "creepy". To me, "creepy" has to carry some active intent of interaction with it - it's creepy if someone gloms onto you and won't leave you alone. In fact, for me, realizing that a person absolutely can't help it because they aren't aware of it removes the feeling of creepiness. It doesn't always remove the annoyance, of course.
3. All of this is different from just doing a little self-mumbling in public, on the "goddamn am I tired, and now I forgot the shopping list" or "but clearly Hopkinson is a utopian writer..." variety.
4. Distress and creepiness, a thing that worries me. I feel like there ought to be a grey area between "good boundaries" and "bad boundaries" that encompasses temporary and/or overwhelming distress. That is, it's bad boundaries for someone to tell you random things about their sexual history out of the blue, but it's not bad boundaries for someone who is in immediate distress to tell you that someone sexually harassed them just now, even if they are a stranger. And yet I feel like very little slack is cut for this.
posted by Frowner at 7:29 AM on April 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
It would be fascinating to see a cross-cultural study of this. Do the factors that make someone creepy at a "liberal arts college in the American Midwest" translate to other contexts? The TTC #75 Sherbourne bus, say?
posted by clawsoon at 7:41 AM on April 12, 2016
posted by clawsoon at 7:41 AM on April 12, 2016
What word would men put on the collection of behaviours that the "predominantly female sample" identified as creepy, if they saw a woman doing them?
If you're a man, a woman who is characterized as "being extremely thin, not looking the interaction partner in the eye, asking to take a picture of the interaction partner, watching people before interacting with them, asking about details of one's personal life, having a mental illness, talking about his/her own personal life, displaying too much or too little emotion, being older, and steering the conversation toward sex" is ___________?
What if they're also a funeral director who collects dolls?
posted by clawsoon at 7:53 AM on April 12, 2016
If you're a man, a woman who is characterized as "being extremely thin, not looking the interaction partner in the eye, asking to take a picture of the interaction partner, watching people before interacting with them, asking about details of one's personal life, having a mental illness, talking about his/her own personal life, displaying too much or too little emotion, being older, and steering the conversation toward sex" is ___________?
What if they're also a funeral director who collects dolls?
posted by clawsoon at 7:53 AM on April 12, 2016
I doubt people are really hearing you when you do that. The ones that freak me out are talking loudly on the street or bus.
My experiences suggest otherwise.
posted by Dysk at 8:09 AM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
My experiences suggest otherwise.
posted by Dysk at 8:09 AM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you're a man, a woman who is characterized as "being extremely thin, not looking the interaction partner in the eye, asking to take a picture of the interaction partner, watching people before interacting with them, asking about details of one's personal life, having a mental illness, talking about his/her own personal life, displaying too much or too little emotion, being older, and steering the conversation toward sex" is ___________?
Definitely still creepy. Watch the horror film May for a good, albeit fictional, example of a woman who fulfills many of these stipulations.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:26 AM on April 12, 2016
Definitely still creepy. Watch the horror film May for a good, albeit fictional, example of a woman who fulfills many of these stipulations.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:26 AM on April 12, 2016
I shuddered at the funeral director who collects dolls. Ugh!
posted by annsunny at 12:14 PM on April 12, 2016
posted by annsunny at 12:14 PM on April 12, 2016
I had a woman living in my apartment complex a while back who fit many of these characteristics, and creepy was always the word that came to mind. But there was no element of fear- I think if I was a woman and a man was obviously watching for me to come home so he could rush out and talk to me it would scare the hell out of me. But I never felt in any real danger, so it was just annoying.
posted by InfidelZombie at 12:47 PM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by InfidelZombie at 12:47 PM on April 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meteorologist?
posted by staggering termagant at 5:43 PM on April 12, 2016
posted by staggering termagant at 5:43 PM on April 12, 2016
"If you're a man, a woman who is characterized as "being extremely thin, not looking the interaction partner in the eye, asking to take a picture of the interaction partner, watching people before interacting with them, asking about details of one's personal life, having a mental illness, talking about his/her own personal life, displaying too much or too little emotion, being older, and steering the conversation toward sex"
Picture this: a girl who is/was a model. But she's shy (maybe because she's young, maybe because she's older and has never gotten herself out there). She sees a guy she takes an interest in. She observes him from across the room, too shy to talk. Finally she gathers the courage to interact with him, under the guise of saying she thinks he looks great and has dressed very well and could she take a picture of him for her 'well dressed people' blog.
She show interest in teh guy, asks him about himself. She's shy, but enthousiastic that she finally has gathered up the courage and is talking to this guy she finds attractive. She asks him about him, talks about herself. During the conversation she tries to steer it in a direction meant to hint at availability, at the fact that she wants him. Although she does mention a bout of boulimia she had during her modeling career.
This poor hot girl who likes a guy is creepy? Or reverse the gender and this thin model guy is creepy?
Sounds like the age old (and I do not like this one):
1)be atractive
2)don't be unatractive
to me.
posted by MacD at 2:24 PM on April 13, 2016
Picture this: a girl who is/was a model. But she's shy (maybe because she's young, maybe because she's older and has never gotten herself out there). She sees a guy she takes an interest in. She observes him from across the room, too shy to talk. Finally she gathers the courage to interact with him, under the guise of saying she thinks he looks great and has dressed very well and could she take a picture of him for her 'well dressed people' blog.
She show interest in teh guy, asks him about himself. She's shy, but enthousiastic that she finally has gathered up the courage and is talking to this guy she finds attractive. She asks him about him, talks about herself. During the conversation she tries to steer it in a direction meant to hint at availability, at the fact that she wants him. Although she does mention a bout of boulimia she had during her modeling career.
This poor hot girl who likes a guy is creepy? Or reverse the gender and this thin model guy is creepy?
Sounds like the age old (and I do not like this one):
1)be atractive
2)don't be unatractive
to me.
posted by MacD at 2:24 PM on April 13, 2016
Picture this: a girl who is/was a model. But she's shy (maybe because she's young, maybe because she's older and has never gotten herself out there). She sees a guy she takes an interest in. She observes him from across the room, too shy to talk. Finally she gathers the courage to interact with him, under the guise of saying she thinks he looks great and has dressed very well and could she take a picture of him for her 'well dressed people' blog.
She show interest in teh guy, asks him about himself. She's shy, but enthousiastic that she finally has gathered up the courage and is talking to this guy she finds attractive. She asks him about him, talks about herself. During the conversation she tries to steer it in a direction meant to hint at availability, at the fact that she wants him. Although she does mention a bout of boulimia she had during her modeling career.
But did sempai finally notice the protagonist of this shoujo manga???
posted by sukeban at 2:33 PM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
She show interest in teh guy, asks him about himself. She's shy, but enthousiastic that she finally has gathered up the courage and is talking to this guy she finds attractive. She asks him about him, talks about herself. During the conversation she tries to steer it in a direction meant to hint at availability, at the fact that she wants him. Although she does mention a bout of boulimia she had during her modeling career.
But did sempai finally notice the protagonist of this shoujo manga???
posted by sukeban at 2:33 PM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Although she does mention a bout of boulimia she had during her modeling career.
I would never have guessed that you wrote Mary Gaitskill fanfic.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:41 PM on April 13, 2016
I would never have guessed that you wrote Mary Gaitskill fanfic.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:41 PM on April 13, 2016
The details matter a lot in these situations. Is observing from across the room short glances or an intense stare? Is the conversation two way, or is one person pushing and the other one showing disinterest? Just how much detail about that eating disorder are we talking about here?*
Also, creepiness is a personal judgment so the past experiences of the person being approached make a big difference. It probably take more for me to see someone as a creep than it would for many women, because my privilege means I'm not approached by as many strangers looking to hit on me.
*The woman I mentioned above once said to me "Sorry I haven't talked to you lately, (reaches back and scratches butt) I've had some really bad diarrhea the past few days."
posted by InfidelZombie at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, creepiness is a personal judgment so the past experiences of the person being approached make a big difference. It probably take more for me to see someone as a creep than it would for many women, because my privilege means I'm not approached by as many strangers looking to hit on me.
*The woman I mentioned above once said to me "Sorry I haven't talked to you lately, (reaches back and scratches butt) I've had some really bad diarrhea the past few days."
posted by InfidelZombie at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
an old person creeping on young girls or boys is a viejo
Well, this is certainly going to change the way I think about Mission Viejo.
posted by malocchio at 12:30 PM on April 15, 2016
Well, this is certainly going to change the way I think about Mission Viejo.
posted by malocchio at 12:30 PM on April 15, 2016
Viejo means "old". "Un viejo" is an old man. Viejo is also a surname which I guess is the origin of the name because Misión has a feminine grammatical gender and "The Old Mission" would be "La Misión Vieja". "Viejo verde" is a dirty old man. Verde usually means green but here it means unseasonally sprightly, so to say. tl;dr: colloquial languages are complicated.
posted by sukeban at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2016
posted by sukeban at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2016
« Older The Wonderful World of Livermush | Imma Boss Ass (Animated) Bitch Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:03 PM on April 11, 2016 [5 favorites]