Enter the Sorcerer Supreme
April 12, 2016 11:37 PM   Subscribe

 
as a small kid, maybe ten years old in 1969, long before I'd ever smoke a joint or drop a hit of acid, my favorite song was Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds and my favorite superhero was Doctor Strange. I don't know what this is supposed to indicate, except that maybe, assuming I don't hear a bunch of horrible stuff about it, this may be the first MARVEL movie I actually bother to see.
posted by philip-random at 12:23 AM on April 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


That's some sharp animation.

But is Balthazar Climbatize really doing that Hugh Laurie-as-Dr. House accent?
posted by sixswitch at 12:25 AM on April 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


I'm not a comics freak, but I do have time for Dr Strange, and am looking forward to this. Hoping they nail the woozy, bubbly, lysergic vibe of the original.

(I'm reading Sandman at the moment, and loving it. The feel is not unlike Dr Strange, when I think about it)
posted by misterbee at 12:31 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


I was already on board for a Doctor Strange movie, but add in Tilda Swinton and Chiwetel Ejiofor and I'm even more excited.

Ocarina of Time corridor twist!
posted by Mister Moofoo at 12:36 AM on April 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


I have to admit, this is the first Marvel movie that I have actually wanted to see. I've seen several, but usually someone else made the choice. I might actually pay to see this in the theater.
posted by hippybear at 12:48 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I thought the appearance of the intertitle "This Fall" after the montage of shots from Strange's accident and rehabilitation was almost poetic before I realised it just meant "In the Autumn".

I do appreciate the way that Marvel have built in these idiosyncratic stories between the juggernauts, and I hope that it will not only be entertaining and not stupid but also successful enough that they might be encouraged to continue.

Though I hope people aren't too disappointed to discover that Tibetan monasteries are actually just a network of pleasant, chanting, bald people with a penchant for maroon, who can't distort reality much but have a winning way with coloured sand.
posted by Grangousier at 12:56 AM on April 13, 2016 [25 favorites]


Oh cool an origin story, that's what I like in a superhero film, yep.
posted by Sternmeyer at 12:59 AM on April 13, 2016 [10 favorites]


As origin stories go, though, it's one of the better ones. He wasn't just bitten by a radioactive owl.
posted by Grangousier at 1:01 AM on April 13, 2016 [22 favorites]


Great. Now I want a radioactive owl.
posted by sexyrobot at 1:02 AM on April 13, 2016 [48 favorites]


I've had a radioactive owl for a long time, but I can't get it to bite me.
posted by hippybear at 1:03 AM on April 13, 2016 [18 favorites]


Perhaps you should bite it.
posted by nubs at 1:07 AM on April 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


He wasn't just bitten by a radioactive owl.

That would be a hoot.
posted by Pendragon at 1:07 AM on April 13, 2016 [35 favorites]


> "Perhaps you should bite it."

That'll just turn it into Man-Owl.
posted by kyrademon at 1:08 AM on April 13, 2016 [25 favorites]


I should have possibly not read the comments before I watched the trailer. Guys, you led me to expect something really awesome and magical and trippy and Lucy-in-the-sky-with-diamonds-esque! Instead it's... a just Marvel movie with heavy Inception influence. Okay.

I just want the movie in my head now...
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 1:09 AM on April 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


I wouldn't mind seeing the Man-Owl movie.
posted by nubs at 1:09 AM on April 13, 2016 [14 favorites]


What's creepy is when you are sneaking up on Man-Owl from behind, and then his head rotates 180º and he just stares at you. With those eyes... *shudder*
posted by hippybear at 1:11 AM on April 13, 2016 [29 favorites]


For God's sake why didn't they just let him have a British accent?
posted by smoke at 1:12 AM on April 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


smoke: to be fair, Man-Owl only had a British accent during the Grant Morrison 'Ultimate Man-Owl' run.... originally, Jack Kirby just had Man-Owl speaking with a thick rural Maine accent.

I'm glad to see Marvel's choosing some deep cuts with films about lesser known characters like the Man-Owl. Maybe we'll get to see his classic enemy, Volemax? The love interest/ enemy Strix? I doubt we'll get his sidekick Bubo, though. Maybe in Man-Owl 3.....
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:17 AM on April 13, 2016 [51 favorites]


Swinton, Mikkelsen, Cumberbatch and Ejiofor ??

::faints::
posted by Faintdreams at 1:19 AM on April 13, 2016 [13 favorites]


Put like that, it sounds like an accountancy firm.
posted by Grangousier at 1:26 AM on April 13, 2016 [51 favorites]


Okay, I've watched it two times now and I just can't get over this constant and serious marveling going on. Seemed like the trailer itself was amazed at what it made visible.
posted by sapagan at 1:28 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yay, I'm not the only one who heard it as Hugh-Laurie-House!

This movie looks way way better than the leaked and paparazzi photos led me to believe. The Swinton, yays! Cumbersnatch! I'm a fan of Sherlock but am always surprised when Cumberbund pulls off other roles...which is weird because I've only seen him in a few things and he's not been bad in anything I've seen that he was in but it's that damn name.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 1:36 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Cumberbatch is a good actor, he's very good, but he always to me seems to be held in far higher regard than his (entirely decent) talent would suggest.

I think it's that he's quite posh, has a fancy name and is very {shakesperian voice} AACCCTOOORLY!
So, he gets a CBE etc. etc. where other equally talented actors who don't have such privileged voice/name/background wouldn't.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 1:43 AM on April 13, 2016 [11 favorites]


I won't be satisfied until Strange walks through an arch made of gaping jaws on path that floats, unsupported, through a starry void.

Is that so much to ask?
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:46 AM on April 13, 2016 [20 favorites]


Suburbanbeatnik, I did the opposite. I watched the trailer, then sped back here thinking that was just a bunch of clichés strung together oh man they're gonna hate this ...

But you all liked it?
posted by kanewai at 1:47 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Seriously? I'd like to see the other reality where they cast it with Asian actors.

Tilda Swinton with a shaved head in robes in a temple in mystic Asia is just monumentally disappointing.

This is giving me Last Airbender flashbacks.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 1:48 AM on April 13, 2016 [59 favorites]


Oh God, it's worse than I thought.

Aside from my general irritation over Cumberbatch (and, seriously, if he's going to do Hugh Laurie as House, then why not just get Hugh Laurie?), Tilda Swinton is making me cringe so hard that I've actually retracted all my limbs into my torso like a snail and I'm just sitting in the corner, pretending that this is not in the same universe as Luke Cage and Winter Soldier.

God, like the ninjas in Daredevil weren't bad enough.
posted by Katemonkey at 2:21 AM on April 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Chris Rock made fun of Asian kids at the Oscars. Iron Fist is gonna be a white guy. Daredevil and its evil Asian ninjas. Psylocke is one of the Horsemen in X-Men Apocalypse so she's gonna start off as another evil Asian ninja.

But whatever. Enjoy your movie about a white guy showing up in foreign locations so he can be the best mystic sorcerer ever. Where you can film in Nepal but Asians only appear either as a manservant or background scenery (imdb cast list). Where Tibetan characters are clearly overrepresented in Hollywood so it's totes okay for a white woman to be cast instead. Those behind-the-scene pictures of folks jumping? Where are the Asian people? Why does the guy on the left's face not match the rest of his skin tone?

I hope this shitshow flops hard.
posted by zix at 2:22 AM on April 13, 2016 [46 favorites]


I find it rather disappointed what is considered great movie making and storytelling is these days.

"Teach me." Meh.
posted by rmmcclay at 2:26 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I am not a big fan of superheroes, and find that as the Marvelverse (is that the term) expands, it gets less and less interesting. But...Benny Cumberbatch? Tilda Swinton? Mysterious monks, alternate universes? Yes and yes and yes! I have only heard the name Doctor Strange, and know nothing of the character. I shall give it a try.
posted by zardoz at 2:40 AM on April 13, 2016


Racism is a really good reason why the should have not begun a Dr. Strange movie at the beginning. Once the character gets rolling, he's in a weird sort-of-psychedelic atmosphere fighting creatures and interacting with beings who often sound sort of "the Mystic East via Theosophy and Robert E. Howard" and sort of "Western Occultism Overheard on the Bus" and sort of "I Was Mildly Stoned and Listening to Prog Rock" and it's kind of silly but also kind of cool, and there are crazy Steve Ditko and Jim Starlin backgrounds, so, hey.

The origin story is pretty racist in that "white guy goes to the East and learns stuff and comes back and is white, maybe with a mysterious manservant" sort of way. And I am not sure there is any way to do that right -- sure, you could give Asian actors more work, but that isn't really going to change the fact that it's a story about a white guy summoning things from the lyrics of early Blue Öyster Cult albums. (which is awesome enough, but...). I think they might have been wiser to ditch the whole "goes to a Tibetan monastery" angle and had him stumble into a not-of-this Earth temple where maybe there was some hint of Eastern mysticism, but also Western, and song lyrics, and then you could have had anyone (and let's hire some Asian, Black, and Hispanic actors while we are at it), and that temple could be anywhere because it's not like it will matter outside of the origin story, and even there it's only with an eyeroll and "we've seen this a million times before" way.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:58 AM on April 13, 2016 [44 favorites]


It's not like a significant chunk of America is super attached to Dr. Strange's origin story. You could just start with him being a wizard already, like in the Edward Norton Hulk, and get to awesome magic stuff.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:03 AM on April 13, 2016 [13 favorites]


I've had a radioactive owl for a long time, but I can't get it to bite me.

The owl figured out you're a bear who was previously bitten by a radioactive hippy. Why try to improve on perfection?
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:07 AM on April 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


Racism is a really good reason why the should have not begun a Dr. Strange movie at the beginning.

I thought the same way about the Mandarin in Iron Man 3, but they managed to lampshade that quite nicely (although the rest of the movie is not without its problems).

That said, this looks sadly dull and predictable. If Bendybeans Camberwell wasn't bad enough, the whole thing seems like they've gone down the "pummel the audience with pseudo Eastern philosophy and turning the camera upside-down" rather than the sparkly magical whimsy that the MCU needs. I wanted Fin Fang Foom and a badass Night Nurse, damn it.
posted by fight or flight at 3:15 AM on April 13, 2016


> "The owl figured out you're a bear who was previously bitten by a radioactive hippy."

Do you want owlbears?

Because that's how you get owlbears.
posted by kyrademon at 3:16 AM on April 13, 2016 [37 favorites]


I'll take two owlbears to go.
posted by fight or flight at 3:16 AM on April 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


Doesn't make me go "wow," but doesn't look terrible at all. So we'll see. Doesn't look particularly racist either, hope that's true.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:26 AM on April 13, 2016


2016 Dr. Strange shoulda gone to Miskatonic University or some shit and be fighting Cthulu. Forget that seven rings of raggaddor stuff. innsmouth would be better than tibet.
posted by valkane at 3:28 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think this thread needs a reference to the owlabear
posted by melisande at 3:33 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Directed by Scott Derrickson, director of Sinister, Deliver us from Evil, and the Exorcism of Emily Rose. Expect this to not be your standard Marvel fare.
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:44 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've ranted about this before (to anyone who will listen -- it's surprising I still have friends) but my read on Steven Strange was that he was more Mediterranean or Middle Eastern at the very least -- Greek or Turkish, say, in his background. So maybe still white, but not like the so-white-almost-transparent that Cumberbatch is.

So I basically checked out of the one Marvel movie I was going to be somewhat interested in once he got the lead. He's fine as an actor, but he's just such an obvious choice for this role that it feels boring. Nothing in this trailer really said this movie was going to be anything I didn't expect.

But I hope it works for the people who are excited about it. I liked the Jessica Jones series and I loved Agent Carter, but beyond those, the MCU just really isn't for me. Oh well
posted by darksong at 3:45 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Directed by Scott Derrickson, director of Sinister, Deliver us from Evil, and the Exorcism of Emily Rose. Expect this to not be your standard Marvel fare.

As much as one could hope, can't see this happening. Usually things take a different - more conventional - turn when (indie) directors are confronted with a big studio. It is the latter that ends up making the films, not the directors. Unfortunately. There will be some signs of the director's style, sure, but this will still be a Marvel film.
posted by sapagan at 4:04 AM on April 13, 2016


It's a low bar, but I hope this is better than the 80s (?) version I have on VHS, which IMDB seems to have overlooked.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:04 AM on April 13, 2016


So is this a bad moment to mention that Oscar Isaac was in the running?

Think of what we could have had!
posted by Katemonkey at 4:05 AM on April 13, 2016 [13 favorites]


This was my #2 Marvel comic growing up (after Daredevil) in the 70's so it's a good time to be me. I'm very happy with the trailer and the look in general, even Cumberbatch's American accent sounds okay.

I can't wait to see DITKO HANDS!
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 4:08 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


So as someone who has never read the source material, this looks like a cinematic combination of The Matrix and Inception. I'm in.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:17 AM on April 13, 2016


I'm glad to see Marvel's choosing some deep cuts with films about lesser known characters like the Man-Owl. Maybe we'll get to see his classic enemy, Volemax? The love interest/ enemy Strix?

Strix, you say?
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:37 AM on April 13, 2016


I know nothing about Dr Strange, but I know Mads and Tilda and Benedryl Candysnatch and any movie with all three of them in it already has my money.
posted by Windigo at 4:42 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


I have mixed feelings... I like the idea of this, but the trailer makes it look exactly the same as Batman Begins, only with a dead surgical career instead of dead parents, and magic instead of punching. And Tilda Swinton instead of Liam Neeson.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:50 AM on April 13, 2016 [10 favorites]


It's a low bar, but I hope this is better than the 80s (?) version I have on VHS, which IMDB seems to have overlooked.

Wait is it this one with Jessica Walter as Morgan le Fay? That's amazing.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:06 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]




So is this a bad moment to mention that Oscar Isaac was in the running?

That would be great, but I was really hoping for Pedro Pascal (Oberyn from Game of Thrones).

Also, Rachel McAdams is playing a character named "Christine Palmer, a.k.a. Night Nurse". But, isn't that the role of Rosario Dawson played in Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage on Netflix. SO CONFUSED.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:36 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wait is it this one with Jessica Walter as Morgan le Fay?

Yes, that's it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:37 AM on April 13, 2016


Doctor Strange, Doctor Strange
Occupies a reality that's deranged
Has the Eye of Agamatto
Can turn your water into moscato
Look out
Here comes the Doctor Strange
posted by middleclasstool at 5:39 AM on April 13, 2016 [16 favorites]


My husband was super excited about the House accent because he keeps on describing Doctor Strange as 'House with demons instead of lupus'.

The racial dynamics was pretty uncomfortable to watch, especially after finishing season 2 of Daredevil (when your least evil Asian character in a ninja story is Electra, you've got some work to do) and knowing what's in store for the Iron Fist. But, otherwise, it does look pretty good for a first trailer.
posted by dinty_moore at 5:41 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


2016 Dr. Strange shoulda gone to Miskatonic University or some shit and be fighting Cthulu.

Oh right. Lovecraft would TOTALLY take care of any racism problem.
posted by happyroach at 5:42 AM on April 13, 2016 [41 favorites]


Yeah, no, Lovecraft would have him fighting Dormammjew or something equally horrifying.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:44 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Is there any way we could get Steven Rattazzi to do the voice?
posted by whuppy at 5:45 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm slightly disappointed they went with an origin story to start. It would have been appropriate for them to skip it with Strange, to just jump into the story with no reference to his background. Oh well.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:49 AM on April 13, 2016


::gets back up from the floor:

Look, I'm not saying this is not highly problematic in the race/whitewashing stakes because it oh-so-very-much-is, BUT I can demand better and yet still squee over what is can't I?

Can't I?

Not being a White Male, means I get to lead an ahem *complicated* Geek life by default ::sigh::
posted by Faintdreams at 5:51 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


I feel like this is perfectly in keeping with the 1963 Strange Tales origin story and its reboot a couple of years later. In the original, the Ancient One is in China; in the reboot he's in India because it sounds more exotic to white people :P In both versions the doctor is a rich, white, narcissistic, greedy asshole of a highly skilled surgeon, until he gets his hands and career ruined in an accident, goes kind of apeshit, and then the combination of mystical training and people trying to murder him gives him some much-needed perspective.

I kind of think jumping in without an origin story might have been more difficult, in terms of understanding the stuff that he actually does.

It would have been nice to have actual Tibetan actors but... I can't not love Tilda Swinton. I'm conflicted :P
posted by Foosnark at 5:56 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Tilda Swinton is an interesting actor, but c'mon now. They couldn't cast an Asian actor? It's yellowface. On the other hand, I also hate this because even if it were an Asian person in the role, they'd be stuck playing the same mystical bullshit stereotype role of Ancient Chinese Secret.

Garbage.
posted by hooray at 6:06 AM on April 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


It would have been nice to have actual Tibetan actors but... I can't not love Tilda Swinton. I'm conflicted

Yeah, a cast containing Rachel McAdams, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Tilda Swinton & Mads Mikkelsen pretty much has carte blanche to do whatever and I'll show up just to see what's happening.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:09 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Forget everything ... that you think you know".

Aw, c'mon! Here let me help:

"He traveled to the ends of the earth to find salvation ... instead he found a source of unlimited power!"

"The body of a man ... the power of a god!"

"In a world ... where magic reigns supreme ... 'Strange' is the new normal."

Can I be a scriptwriter yet?
posted by freecellwizard at 6:13 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


I am likely going to go see it despite preferring an actor of colour to play Strange (because he's never been a white guy in my head; at the very least, I've always felt he was a Spaniard) and not being a huge fan of Benny Crumbles. I mean, yay Mads Mikkelsen!
posted by Kitteh at 6:19 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


So is this a bad moment to mention that Oscar Isaac was in the running?

there was a pretty big (completely unofficial) push for Oded Fehr too which is something i was totally into

i dunno i'm so burnt out on Cumberbatch (not that i was huge into him in the first place and others have gotten a little into why but i digress) but that in combo with the other completely white casting choices (except for minority background characters... of course.....) has really put me off this movie. movies have taken enough heat for this lately that I guess I wish they'd have been a little bit more... considerate?

we'll see but unless the reviews are amazing i def won't be seeing it in theaters and I might not bother at all. they did make cumberbatch look reasonably cool tho.
posted by suddenly, and without warning, at 6:23 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah, they're pretty much damned whichever way they go, given that the original story is rife with Orientalism and the white guy co-opting the role of hero. Pedro Pascal would have been nice, and Isaac is the new hotness because of TFA, but he's already doing Apocalypse in the upcoming X-Men movie and it would probably be crossing the streams to have him in this. I think that the optics of Bumbershoot Calabash doing this are especially bad simply because he did the whitewashed Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness, but I think he'll be fine here. (I still think that they should have gone with an Asian Iron Fist, instead of the pretty boy from Game of Thrones, though. Shit, they had a bunch of alternate ways that they could have gone, based off of Brubaker and Fraction's Immortal Iron Fist series. Oh, well.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:26 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


This looks really silly, but oh man... that cast. I would probably watch any movie with both Benedict Cumberbatch and Tilda Swinton in it. And then you throw in Mads Mikkelsen and Chiwetel Ejiofor?
posted by 256 at 6:34 AM on April 13, 2016


Also, Rachel McAdams is playing a character named "Christine Palmer, a.k.a. Night Nurse". But, isn't that the role of Rosario Dawson played in Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage on Netflix. SO CONFUSED.

There was more than one Night Nurse in the comic universe if I recall, and I think some of them were in existence simultaneously? But I would definitely prefer them only keeping it to one in the MCU, though Dawson's character is never actually called Night Nurse.
posted by skycrashesdown at 6:36 AM on April 13, 2016


Wait is it this one with Jessica Walter as Morgan le Fay? That's amazing.

There was a rash of Marvel TV movies around that time - and my god were they horrible. Artifacts of a time before we had CGI. And budgets. (Though that was the swamp the Bixby/Ferrigno Incredible Hulk series crawled out of.)

But I remember Dr. Strange as the one that was actually really cool. Of course I haven't seen it since then, so it may be not nearly as awesome as I remember it being. But I remember it as awesome and have had kind of a sneaking fondness for Dr. Strange since then solely because of it. I'm kind of afraid to look.

My blatant fondness for Captain America, on the other hand is despite the best efforts of that version to make the character ridiculous.
posted by Naberius at 6:39 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well clearly there's a Night Nurses corps whick needs its own Netflic series.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:40 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Boy I hope he saves the world at the end
posted by beerperson at 6:48 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


Metafilter's conflicted response (ooooh, they racebended The Ancient One, baaaad, but they racebended Mordo: gooood) is amusing.

And yet no one questions the veracity of the Strange hand-casts... or mentions The Pitch-Perfect Ditko Bowtie?

And no one mentions the Hoary Hosts of (Jenni) Hoggarth?
posted by Mezentian at 6:48 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


the original story is rife with Orientalism

In the Wikipedia article, there's a bunch of quotes about how they decided that the "ancient one" would be one in a long row of ancients, "carrying a mantel", and how that allowed them to "cast in interesting ways", so they went with a highly androgynous character (the character's gender is "all in the eye of the beholder"), which felt like they maybe were trying to get away from the lazy orientalism that was old and lazy when the original story was written (cf 1930:s Mandrake) and that would feel old no matter what actor they used, but then you notice how they were filming in Nepal and how Cumberbatch babbles about how he just love eastern mysticism and how his time teaching English in a tibetan school in India changed his life and inspired his work on this film, so maybe only Swinton got the "let's skip the lazy orientalism" memo.

But at least the sidekick Wong is played by someone name Wong, so at least they got that right :facepalm:

(nothing wrong with Swinton and Wong, they're both solid actors, and actors gotta work, etc.)
posted by effbot at 6:48 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Really looking forward to Cumberbatch's reading of "By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth!"
posted by entropicamericana at 6:49 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Boy I hope he saves the world at the end

You fool, he was mentioned in The Winter Soldier.
The world had already been saved!

(And the world seems to be an alley in Asia somewhere.... probably China).
posted by Mezentian at 6:49 AM on April 13, 2016


Benedict Timothy Cumberbatch, Sorcerer,
wields mystic powers from
far-off Tibet.
Not unpredictably
racist and whitewashed, but
still it's the best film we're
likely to get.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:54 AM on April 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


wields mystic powers from
far-off Tibet.


They need Chinese box office.
It's "somewhere in Central Asia with mountains", not Tibet.
posted by Mezentian at 6:57 AM on April 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


Just make up a country, no one can tell those places apart anyway, right?
posted by beerperson at 6:58 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


That doesn't rhyme.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:59 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


No, that was Arnim Zola's super-AI predicting that someday an asshole surgeon would save the world in a manner not advantageous to Hydra (they're totally down for a Deal with Dormmamu) if the hella-pwned-carriers don't take him out first.
posted by straight at 7:01 AM on April 13, 2016


Just make up a country, no one can tell those places apart anyway, right?

Teth-Adam is glaring at you so hard from Khandaq right now.

Khandaq. Not Iraq.
Khandaq.
posted by Mezentian at 7:03 AM on April 13, 2016


They couldn't cast an Asian actor? It's yellowface.

And if they do it's Orientalism.

I'm curious to see what they actually did here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:06 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]




Metafilter's conflicted response (ooooh, they racebended The Ancient One, baaaad, but they racebended Mordo: gooood) is amusing.

In a film industry (and culture) awash in white faces as the Default Race, where people of color have shit representation both as characters and as cast/crew, whitewashing a traditionally non-white character is not the same thing as giving a traditionally-white role to a non-white actor. You may find that point amusing, but it's been discussed on this site about a thousand times and isn't a particularly difficult distinction to grasp.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:23 AM on April 13, 2016 [27 favorites]


Metafilter's conflicted response (ooooh, they racebended The Ancient One, baaaad, but they racebended Mordo: gooood) is amusing.

i mean... yeah i guess it's pretty hilarious when people critically examine the intersection of race and power structures in the whole hero/villain role assignment and the availability and/or stereotypical-ness of roles for minorities in media and how that can often be a double-edged sword. oh metafilter you silly entity with your contradictory views. or was this a dig at people offering criticism, because that's what it seems like? forgive me if wrong.

that said i don't think there's a single comment that expresses the example you've given (has mordo even been metioned in this thread?). maybe in aggregate but even then this example is nonexistent. it's almost like metafilter is made up of a variety of individuals with unique world views and opinions
posted by suddenly, and without warning, at 7:26 AM on April 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


The more I think about it, the more my internal conflict grows. I mean, I like that Marvel is kinda going semi-deep cut with MCU movies, but Doctor Strange is one that probably should have more thought put into the concept before execution. Benny Crumbles wasn't cast because he was the perfect Doctor Strange (*makes call me fingers at Oscar Isaac and Oded Fehr*) but because he is bankable. I get that that's how Hollywood rolls but this could have been cast so much better. It could have been a great flagship POC Marvelverse movie, paving the way for more inclusion in the MCU.
posted by Kitteh at 7:27 AM on April 13, 2016 [7 favorites]


This trailer feels a lot like that "The Shadow" film from the 90s.
posted by I-baLL at 7:33 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


What's with all the Buddhist imagery in the trailer? Very 'Oriental.'
posted by My Dad at 7:35 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Truthfully, I don't think Marvel could have "won" either way. I realize that Strange's origin story is rooted Eastern mysticism (or rather a white guy's version of it) but again, with a really good screenwriter you could re-imagine that to something less cliche and offensive. Remove the problematic aspects of his origin story and come up with something fresher and you would still have Stephen Strange, just updated for today.
posted by Kitteh at 7:44 AM on April 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


They should go ahead and keep making these trailers and when fans get into the theater the actual movie is The Holy Mountain with a Marvel logo tacked on at the beginning
posted by beerperson at 7:46 AM on April 13, 2016 [16 favorites]


Yeah, other than the obvious racial issues here (it just seems to be incredibly tin-eared for this moment) I want to say that this looks nothing like the style of illustrations that I remember from the actual DS comics. It seems instead like just a mishmash of special effects that CGI has made to work recently (e.g. Inception). If it actually looked like Doctor Strange, I'd be more interested in coming out to see it.
posted by newdaddy at 7:55 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I hope Doctor Strange shows up at an Avengers meeting all "Hi, I wield the power cosmic against ancient gods / interdimensional abominations beyond mortal ken, and no I'm not crazy, stop giving me that look." Then Moon Knight drops out of the ceiling saying, "Hi, I'm the avatar of a cosmic abomination / ancient god and I'm genuinely crazy."

Then Doctor Strange and Moon Knight punch ghosts for justice. (As the Avengers tiptoe hastily out the back door.)

Seriously, what a great cosmic buddy-cop combo. "As the Sorcerer Supreme, I thank you, Moon Knight, for your invaluable assistance as my colleague in the supernatural; as a medical doctor, may I suggest you consider a course of psychiatric medication?"
posted by nicebookrack at 7:58 AM on April 13, 2016 [21 favorites]


Oh man I can't wait until 2027 when Marvel gets around to making a Moon Knight movie.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:02 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


It'll still be before a Black Widow movie though.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:03 AM on April 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


Meanwhile Ghost Rider is just parked in a corner eating the Avenger meeting's last chocolate croissant, which he intimidated Tony Stark into handing over with a little flash of Penance Stare.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:05 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


When does the Moodshadow movie come out then?
posted by numbskeleton at 8:06 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


The lack of familiarity with film industry customs is surprising. The reason Laurie and Cumberbatch's accents are non-British is because in Hollywood males with upper-class English accents are generally the villains, have you ever noticed ... They must be trying not to confuse the audience.
posted by epo at 8:08 AM on April 13, 2016


When does the Moodshadow movie come out then?

Eh, imagine it came out in '96, so we can cherish the nostalgia.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:08 AM on April 13, 2016


NO KIRBY DOTS, NO SALE, GODDAMMIT.
What does a man have to do to get his motherfucking Kirby dots in his motherfucking cosmic and/or magical Marvel movies?
*weeps bitterly*

On preview: Imagining the usefulness of Penance Stare in all sorts of office circumstances: that coworker who doesn't make another pot of coffee, the coworker who leaves dirty dishes in the sink, the coworker who eats your yogurt....
posted by entropicamericana at 8:09 AM on April 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


Meanwhile Ghost Rider is just parked in a corner eating the Avenger meeting's last chocolate croissant, which he intimidated Tony Stark into handing over with a little flash of Penance Stare.

This single sentence is 100% more interesting to me than most of what the MCU is making right now.

C'mooon Squirrel Girl/Hellcat teamup movie.
posted by fight or flight at 8:10 AM on April 13, 2016 [10 favorites]


I await the film adaptation of the 100% legit forthcoming graphic novel The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Beats Up the Marvel Universe.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:13 AM on April 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


If the Vision has enough soul to be worthy of picking up Thor's hammer, is that enough soul to be intimidated by the Penance Stare into handing over his croissant? Does it matter that he's an android who doesn't need to eat croissants anyway?
posted by nicebookrack at 8:18 AM on April 13, 2016


>It'll still be before a Black Widow movie though.

Make one with Katheryn Winnick (Lagertha from Vikings)!

I was getting a vibe that this trailer was using leftover shots from Inception. I'm really not a fan of Burritofarts Chumperthwacks, he's one of those actors (like Jesse Eisenberg) who has gotten famous for stereotyping smart people as assholes.
posted by Catblack at 8:18 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I doubt that this will be more enjoyable than Doctor Mordrid.
posted by heatvision at 8:19 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm glad I'm not the only one here who watched this trailer and was concerned about the kind of subtle and not so subtle Orientalism/othering that is on display.

I consider myself well-read in the comics-verse but Dr. Strange is one of those characters that I just never found myself picking up. So I'm not sure what his back-story is. That being said, based on the few images and what little I know about him, I never thought of him as "white". Maybe I'm completely wrong. I want to see this, but I'm a bit worried....

This trailer reminded me so much of Alec Baldwin's portrayal of The Shadow
posted by Fizz at 8:44 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'll add my voice to the chorus of people ruing the missed opportunity here. In addition to the dubious orientalism and miscasting, Dr. Strange ought to be a lot more fun in my book, I'd like the effects to be more stylised and psychedelic. This all seems a bit too serious.

I guess the Marvel plan is to have 'A' films like the Avengers and then churn out loads of 'B' films in the hopes that they have the right combination of stars, story and general appeal to get a hit. But it would be neat if they did more low budget, story driven films without loads of action. I would love an Animal Man film. It would be a challenge obviously, but it could be really well done and he must be the most lovable character in the entire Marvel universe. With more comic films coming out than ever before it's the right time for a film examining our obsession with them. Was that what Birdman and Deadpool were? I don't watch recent films all that much. (But would definitely watch Animal Man, obviously.)

Also hoping that Disney does a film of Obi-won in the desert, meditating with the force and having a temptation of St. Antony type of experience.

Also since it seems like people just don't like Green Lantern, why not do Green Lantern/Green Arrow where they travel across the country together exploring social problems? There have just been way too many interesting comic books to keep doing origins. God that first issue of Namor where he just goes around punching innocent bystanders. I'd watch that. I think the thing about comic films is the audience has proved they are willing to suspend a lot of disbelief so you have license to take massive risks. I hope they start doing that. I think people would really like it.
posted by Cassettevetes at 8:45 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Just realised Animal Man is DC. I feel so ashamed.
posted by Cassettevetes at 8:47 AM on April 13, 2016 [8 favorites]


For any true aficionados of the Strange universe out there, Cat Yronwode has compiled a ridonkulously encyclopedic account of the magic of Doctor Strange in THE LESSER BOOK OF THE VISHANTI!
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 8:50 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'd like a Ms. Marvel/Squirrel Girl movie where they are college roommates (assigned to live with each other by a still running subroutine of Zola's Algorithm - it was supposed to group targets for more efficient killing, but now just ends up making sure main characters meet conveniently.) who spend the first part of the movie becoming friends while trying to hide their secret identities from each other. It turns out the mysteries they each are working on intersect so they team up to stop... I dunno... MODOK who is coming online in a forgotten AIM lab on campus. While they stop MODOK's plan to create a robot army, MODOK does get away. Still, through a combination of banter, sass, and punching they do manage to turn MODOK's chief henchman, Machine Man, into a good guy.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:56 AM on April 13, 2016 [11 favorites]


[...] Dr. Strange ought to be a lot more fun in my book, I'd like the effects to be more stylised and psychedelic. This all seems a bit too serious.

thanks for saying this, this is one of the other reasons I'm so 'meh' about the film and what I've seen so far. I mean maybe that's in there and they're pushing the serious side for trailers but I don't know if I've ever seen Benny do 'fun' which was part of my dismay when he was cast. but hey, maybe they'll incorporate some fun into the film and he'll pull it off, who knows
posted by suddenly, and without warning, at 8:56 AM on April 13, 2016


Green Lantern / Green Arrow are also DC, Cassettevettes.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:59 AM on April 13, 2016


robocop is bleeding: Perhaps you jest, but Squirrel Girl has already defused/befriended a villainous nihilist Hydra henchman robot and it was amazing.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:04 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


but I don't know if I've ever seen Benny do 'fun' which was part of my dismay when he was cast.

For my money, the only time Bandersnatch Cumberbund was hilarious was playing Martin Crieff in the BBC radio comedy series Cabin Pressure. (It was also the first time I was aware of him before Sherlock blew up.)
posted by Kitteh at 9:04 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


So, I guess they didn't get Mightygodking to write it, then?
posted by ckape at 9:09 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah I had been beginning to get my hopes up after they were dashed by the casting of Benedict Cumberbatch instead of Oded Fehr, but this trailer knocked them riiiiight back down again.

Like everyone else is saying, I was hoping for more psychedelic Ditko gibberish, and less Dark Knight and Inception-ish portentous thumping. I've also always hoped the trailer would be set to the bridge of Al Stewart's Nostradamus (the figure on the US album jacket in that video is supposed to be Dr. Strange), but if anything that would have been less likely than casting Oded Fehr.
posted by branduno at 9:09 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, nicebookrack, I'm just head canon building towards a MCU version of Next Wave with Ms. Marvel, Squirrel Girl, Machine Man, and Jessica Jones.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:12 AM on April 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


I doubt that this will be more enjoyable than Doctor Mordrid.

If you had told me going into this thread that I would learn there was a Doctor Strange movie with the serial numbers (and mustache) filed off, starring universally-beloved Lovecraftian character actor Jeffrey Combs, I wouldn't have believed you. I have to find and watch that right now.
posted by branduno at 9:12 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


I would love an Animal Man film. It would be a challenge obviously, but it could be really well done and he must be the most lovable character in the entire Marvel universe.

I am wistful for a Vertigo line of films that would really dig deep into the psychological/symbolic territory that DC Vertigo did so amazingly well. Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol. Culminating likely in Sandman.

But then I look at what Hellblazer and Lucifer have become, and despair.
posted by bonehead at 9:13 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


> "Devonian Giant Owl Threat."
> "Devonian Radioactivity Threat."
> "posted by Devonian"

This is blatant supervillain self-promotion.
posted by kyrademon at 9:14 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


But who's playing the Blackula hunter and the monk with alchemical powers?
posted by ckape at 9:15 AM on April 13, 2016 [11 favorites]


Metafilter's own Doctor Strange expert mightygodking (his series of "Why I should write Doctor Strange" pitches are almost certainly more entertaining than this movie will be even if it's quite good), has a few thoughts about the trailer. (high-five to ckape on preview)
posted by straight at 9:15 AM on April 13, 2016 [12 favorites]


As any defensive BATMAN V SUPERMAN fan will rush to tell you, the Marvel house style is generally pretty light in tone. Netflix shows aside. I doubt the final film will be too self-serious, even if there isn't any humor in this teaser.
posted by brundlefly at 9:17 AM on April 13, 2016


There must be a magical fuck-up scene with the cosmic equivalent to Tony Stark spiking himself into a wall like a volleyball. Perhaps Strange accidentally turns himself into a bedraggled owl.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:23 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


OR Strange accidentally turns himself into a squirrel, a girl squirrel falls in love with him a la The Sword in the Stone, and then she follows him back into humanity, thus giving us the BEST Disneyfied Doreen Green origin story ever!
posted by nicebookrack at 9:28 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Meanwhile Ghost Rider is just parked in a corner eating the Avenger meeting's last chocolate croissant, which he intimidated Tony Stark into handing over with a little flash of Penance Stare.

"Dude, it's just falling out the bottom of your skull, why bother?"

"Not the point, man. Now, where does Tony hide the beer in this place?"
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:31 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


Anyone who's negative on this trailer, I will just say that the 2015 Doctor Strange relaunch has good writing, great art, and a single-page backstory montage. I'm only a few issues in but digging it a lot so far!
posted by majuju at 9:37 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


I was hoping for more psychedelic Ditko gibberish, and less Dark Knight and Inception-ish portentous thumping.

Seeing this and similar complaints here a lot, and I'm a little surprised. It's the first trailer. All it's doing is setting up the premise - he's a surgeon looking to heal after an accident, and he discovers there's more to the world than he realizes. That's it. The entire point of the trailer is to tell Strange (and the audience) that you haven't seen anything yet.

Seriously, there's one bit of magic in the trailer. One. And a little bit of perception bending. Do you honestly believe that a movie about the Master of the Mystic Arts isn't going to have a hell of a lot more magic at some point? That maybe, just maybe, they're holding back some of that wow for later promotion? Hell, they don't even show him in his garb until the final shot, from behind, in the dark. It looks like ninety percent of this trailer happens in the first 15-20 minutes of the movie.

They're not going to make a Dr. Strange movie without going Ditko. Just wait.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 9:43 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Just wait.

I applaud your optimism, but I gave up hope for big budget superhero movies three X-Men franchises ago. Just. Just go on without me.
posted by fight or flight at 9:46 AM on April 13, 2016


All it's doing is setting up the premise... It looks like ninety percent of this trailer happens in the first 15-20 minutes of the movie.

I got my hopes up when the movie was announced, they dropped when Cumberbatch was cast, rose with some of the leaked costume photos, dropped with this trailer, and now you're building my hopes back up again. I don't know if I can handle this roller coaster anymore.
posted by branduno at 9:48 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


While it's true that any Doctor Strange adaptation would have to pass through the Scylla of Orientalism and the Charybdis of whitewashing, what they seem to have done here is keep the Orientalism and get rid of the Asians. So you get "Asia is the home of supersecret and exotic magic! Except white people are better at it than the natives!"

That does not strike me as a good solution to the problem of Doctor Strange.
posted by tavella at 9:50 AM on April 13, 2016 [20 favorites]


I would like to read some Dr. Strange, what should I read? Feel free to memail suggestions if this would derail the thread.
posted by pseudodionysus at 9:51 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I remember what my feelings about Ant-Man were after the first trailer, and how the Ant-Man movie wound up being close to sheer delight, so I'm cautiously optimistic, still.
posted by Shepherd at 9:53 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Pretty sure they can do whitewashing AND Orientalism, and that they did.
posted by allthinky at 9:56 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Doctor Strange & Doctor Doom: Triumph & Torment, with art by Mike Mignola (!‼), so you too can mourn that Doctor Doom is beyond the reach of the MCU forever.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:57 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


The whiteness of this trailer bothers me, too. I mean you only see a handful of faces, so there's that, but when half this trailer takes place in the "Far East" or wherever and you literally never see a single Asian face, I can't really fail to notice that.

I am 100% down with casting the Ancient One as a woman and I get wanting a big Hollywood name, but I just...was Michelle Yeoh busy? Not interested? They at least asked her first, right?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:13 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Dr. Strange ought to be a lot more fun in my book, I'd like the effects to be more stylised and psychedelic. This all seems a bit too serious.

You mean like Dr. Orpheus.
posted by My Dad at 10:15 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


As one of the few people who doesn't have a history with Marvel characters but is still curious about MetaFilter's conversation about them, I have to tell you that my reaction was "So it's the serious version of Dr. Orpheus?"
posted by benito.strauss at 10:20 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


You say that as if Dr. Orpheus wasn't always deadly serious.
posted by ckape at 10:22 AM on April 13, 2016 [13 favorites]


It's not like a significant chunk of America is super attached to Dr. Strange's origin story. You could just start with him being a wizard already, like in the Edward Norton Hulk, and get to awesome magic stuff.

I'm actually shocked this didn't happen. Isn't this company all about prequels? That's such an easy cash grab.
posted by emptythought at 10:24 AM on April 13, 2016


pseudodionysus: Matt Fraction's self-contained Defenders run is Strange-centric and delightfully bonkers.
posted by HeroZero at 10:24 AM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


I know nothing about any of these characters - but it is a handful of great actors.
The time it was written in was almost - to compare to today - hilariously/deliriously racist. Also bare in mind that it is decidedly commercial product from its inception. That is, you're not going to get very sophisticated fare if you insist on eating at Dennys.
That said I'll hold judgement about crazy whitewashing (a la 'Last Airbender' movie). There are some people with brains working in the movie industry - look at the latest Star Wars movies. There is a chance they resolve in some way the Orientalism of the source text.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:27 AM on April 13, 2016


Just jumping in to second kitteh's recommendation of Cabin Pressure for supremely silly and very effectively goofy Benedict Cumberbatch, for those who fear he can't do lightness/comedy. Martin Crieff is a work of sad-sack anxiety genius.
posted by chonus at 10:32 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


All through the trailer I kept thinking that it looked a lot like "Batman Begins." It kind of seems like it's hitting a lot of the same story beats as well:
1) Successful westerner has a life-changing event
2) Said westerner journeys to the far east (in search of enlightenment?)
3) studies under a mysterious mentor / is enlightened
4) returns to fight crime, while wearing a cape
5) ????
6) PROFIT!
posted by wabbittwax at 10:43 AM on April 13, 2016


5) Make Disney/Marvel film.
posted by hippybear at 10:45 AM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


A Doctor Strange who gets bitten by a Radioactive Owl would clearly be a Doctor Who and I am very disappointed in all of you for not knowing this already.
posted by idiopath at 10:51 AM on April 13, 2016 [31 favorites]


You say that as if Dr. Orpheus wasn't always deadly serious.

He's probably my favourite Venture Bros. character. He's one of the few normal characters. He's the father of a teenage daughter!
posted by My Dad at 10:54 AM on April 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Greg Nog: I didn't pay to see it in the theater, and ended up watching it because a friend was visiting and picked it to watch off my satellite service.

I have never yet actually chosen to see any Marvel movie. I have watched many, and have found some entertaining but not engaging (if that makes any sense). They are stories well told using all the tools available to make the fantastical real.

I am more the documentary or small but intense drama or screwball comedy type, really. The special effects movies I enjoyed in the 80s were partly about the story but also partly about the "how the fuck did that film that???" aspect to watching the movie. These days, when anyone with a mouse and a computer and $100million can make anything appear on film, that second aspect of thrill and wonder about watching a special effects movie has disappeared. If the story doesn't connect with me enough for me to give a fuck about watching the film without having that added component of "how the fuck did that do that???" to keep me interested, then generally I won't seek the movie out.

I am not saying any of this to somehow put down people who enjoy these movies. It is just how I engage with them, and I know I am an odd duck. Like I said, I have found them entertaining when I have watched them.

The proto-hippie "envision a different reality, make it real" sort of stuff that I saw in this trailer is right in my wheelhouse. It's not like I actually believe any of that stuff on a literal level, but it feeds some part of the Jungian, LSD-taking, dance-myself-into-a-trance, wow I can hear smells sort of person that I continue to be even while I approach 50. That's my main interest in seeing this movie. I liked a lot of the trippy reality shifting stuff, but I did find myself yawning at the folding city bit of the trailer just as much as I did when I saw it in Inception.

If they'd done that in the 80s, I would have totally lost my shit.
posted by hippybear at 10:56 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


idiopath: I gift you 1000 favorites. I will be laughing about that all day.
posted by hippybear at 10:56 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]




The comicbook vampire hunter Blade was supposed to be rebooted with a teenage daughter, though that book has been postponed indefinitely; but I would loooove to see an Orpheus homage/ripoff with awkward comic Strange with a sudden teenage daughter instead of / in addition to Blade.

Rebellious teenage daughters for everyone‼ (major ANAD Avengers #9 spoilers)
posted by nicebookrack at 11:03 AM on April 13, 2016


Not helping, Kevin Feige. You're pretty much saying, "Eh, it's all the same, isn't it?"
posted by Kitteh at 11:04 AM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


generically 'eastern mysticism'

BLEH. Okay, Marvel, I'll just assume Stephen Strange joins Aum Shinrikyo based on that info.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:10 AM on April 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


I would like to read some Dr. Strange, what should I read?

The current run in the comics is only a few issues in and is very well done so far. There's a good element of humor to it.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:36 AM on April 13, 2016


My major problem with Strange's origin story is that it's boring as hell - this looks, from the trailer, like it's essentially a remake of the (not very good) animated Dr. Strange film from a few years back, which was 75% faffing about in The Mystic East and 25% Rings of Raggador and Eye of Agamotto.

Like, the things I want from a Dr. Strange movie are pretty clear and they involve: badass cape, Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth, lots of magic, very few adventures with Lobsang in a monastery somewhere learning the secrets of oneness by washing dishes or whatever.

I hope at least this will bode well for the production chances of the Justice League: Dark film and the (who am I kidding it will never happen) Sandman film. "People like magic now? OK."
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:51 AM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


generically 'eastern mysticism'

Shingon-shu is kinda sorta like what I saw in the trailer.

Dr. Strange could also have studied and practiced shugendo (that's where ninjas come from). The shugendo practitioners were not exactly Buddhist or Shinto but were kinda sorta similar to Tom Bombadil from LotR.
posted by My Dad at 12:59 PM on April 13, 2016


I would have preferred Dormammu and Clea, but I'm in. The Ancient One looks appropriately Ancient-One-y, and the astral form looked really cool.
posted by wittgenstein at 1:11 PM on April 13, 2016


Doctor Orpheus is the best, and yeah, my basic reference point for Dr. Strange as well. [supercut - "sleeeeeeeep!"]

I love Tilda Swinton, but that was just off, horribly, terribly off.

I'll probably eventually watch this at home, but probably not make any particular effort to see it.
posted by epersonae at 1:11 PM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


i dunno i'm so burnt out on Cumberbatch

He's one of those actors who, through the vagaries of Tumblr et al, develops an overwhelming meme-presence on the Internet. I got sick of him for the same reason I got sick of the Minions.
posted by AdamCSnider at 1:37 PM on April 13, 2016 [3 favorites]


...at least DC portrayed Katana as Asian in Suicide Squad.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:12 PM on April 13, 2016


I love Doctor Strange. The Essential Doctor Strange, Vol. 1, is one of the few omnibus graphic novels I own. He's ridiculous and weird and so far out there compared to the rest of the Marvel universe, it's tons of fun to see what kind of wacky shit he's going to end up doing next. It's kind of a toss-up between Doctor Strange and Nightcrawler for my favorite Marvel character.

I am saying all of this so that you understand where I'm coming from when I say that this trailer is unmitigated Orientalist trash drenched in yellowface. I can't believe I actually defended the casting of Tilda Swinton against my peeps correctly calling racefuckery. I'm such an idiot. Just wait for trailer #2, and the inevitable tiny dick joke featuring Wong's wang as the lighthearted sting. And of course I'm still going to see this shitshow, because see paragraph 1. God damn it.
posted by Errant at 2:39 PM on April 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


I think the thread consensus is that we'd prefer a Man-Owl movie.
posted by nubs at 3:10 PM on April 13, 2016 [9 favorites]


That'd be a hoot!

I'll see myself out.
posted by wabbittwax at 3:52 PM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


From another site: "Actually, Cumberbatch and Swinton sounds like a hip bar that I would probably enjoy."
posted by epersonae at 3:53 PM on April 13, 2016


I applaud your optimism, but I gave up hope for big budget superhero movies three X-Men franchises ago. Just. Just go on without me.

Seems like you could maybe be posting in anywhere that's not this thread, then. Seriously, why is it that every time we have a thread about a superhero movie a bunch of people feel the need to come in and tell us all about how they don't even like superheroes? What's the gain in that?

On-topic: I love Doctor Strange a lot, but I have to agree that this trailer is pretty unimpressive, and I was already a little nervous due to the director and writers not having produced anything good (the fact that two of them worked on Sinister is especially not encouraging, since that movie is a rickety structure built entirely out of cliches (and lo and behold we got a trailer that's pretty cliche-heavy)). We're not getting the magic yet, though. I would have gone pretty heavy on the weird for the first trailer, personally, but they wanted to start with how this is similar to other superhero stuff, it seems, which maybe suggests that it's not going to be that weird at all but could also just be suggesting that the studio is a little nervous about how the weird will be received. Hopefully the next trailer is a little more illuminating (and weird).
posted by IAmUnaware at 4:45 PM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not that worried about special effects yet, since IIRC shooting on the movie wrapped like last week. If we hit summer trailers and there's still little SFX trippiness on view, then I'll be concerned.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:18 PM on April 13, 2016


Yeah, that trailer probably has all the SFX that are finished in it. Here's hoping!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:39 PM on April 13, 2016


They should have him get his "mystical" training at that rage yoga bar in Canada.
posted by themanwho at 6:44 PM on April 13, 2016 [2 favorites]


I have been hearing that this film is going to be way more psychedelic than previous MCU movies, and there's a hint of that here. But you probably don't start out full Ditko hands and Kirby dots.

Kurt Busiek wrote a bit on Twitter a while back about how Doctor Strange was originally Asian in his first appearance in July 1963, and was later retconned to be a white dude later on. I really like the way he spins that out into what could have been a better movie in later tweets, too.

Speaking of the Defenders, can somebody convince me they weren't created on a dare? "I bet you can't make a team out of... let's see... Namor, Hulk, Silver Surfer, and Doctor Strange. GO!"
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:55 PM on April 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


Someone called my name?
posted by strixus at 8:24 PM on April 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was really hoping for Pedro Pascal (Oberyn from Game of Thrones).

Me too, I think he could have been great.
posted by homunculus at 8:34 PM on April 13, 2016


I wonder if he sews his own outfit with his fucked-up hands.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:57 PM on April 13, 2016


This movie is a commercial product cunningly designed to satisfy a large cross section of people -- not satisfy completely, but enough to drive box office and maintain its mix of die hard and casual fans.

Tilda Swinton is the Ancient One for three reasons. First, concern that an Asian Ancient One would be on the nose racism. Second, because the PRC market will not tolerate a Himalayan Asian spiritual leader as a pivotal positive character. Third, because selecting Tilda Swinton in particular satisfies enough liberal fans to at least create a wedge against anything like the ATLA movie movement. The Ancient One and journey stick around because Marvel movies are marketed by hardcore thought leaders who know the character's origins.

The same target audience will watch Benedict Cumberbatch in anything, which is why, despite a bad American accent, an inability to grow facial hair and an overall lack of suitability due to a mien that defies meaningful character arcs (indeed, Sherlock is pretty much about him Not Really Changing! Right At You! They know his strengths) he is your Doctor Strange.

This was a creative decision in the same way as the creation of Poochie in that episode of the Simpsons was, except Marvel is better at it, and better than Warner, though not as much better than you think. Warner has identified a right-leaning target audience and its movies edge that way. They only look worse if you're not the apolitical right-leaning young demographic that grew up on Nolan Batman movies.
posted by mobunited at 3:38 AM on April 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Charybdis of whitewashing

Stealing this for a chain of laundromats.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:28 AM on April 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The podcast Overinvested did a delightful minisode of their WTF response to the trailer.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:54 AM on April 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


What if- Doctor Strange was an Asian American character who travels to Tilda Swinton's not-Tibet?
posted by Apocryphon at 9:37 AM on April 14, 2016


They only look worse if you're not the apolitical right-leaning young demographic that grew up on Nolan Batman movies.

I don't know about that. I think that most of the Marvel films are a lot better written (and just about everything else) than what we have of the DCCU so far. Not that that's a high bar to clear, but Marvel's put out some rock solid genre movies.
posted by brundlefly at 10:07 AM on April 14, 2016


What if- Doctor Strange was an Asian American character who travels to Tilda Swinton's not-Tibet?

THIS FALL: The Narnia books get really fucked up and racist so we just made one up!
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 1:18 PM on April 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


The screenwriter on the politics behind the casting:

"The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place. He originates from Tibet. So if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people who think that that’s bullshit and risk the Chinese government going, ‘Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We’re not going to show your movie because you decided to get political.’ If we decide to go the other way and cater to China in particular and have him be in Tibet… If you think it’s a good idea to cast a Chinese actress as a Tibetan character, you are out of your damn fool mind and have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about."
posted by effbot at 11:26 AM on April 25, 2016


So "blunt, yet difficult" is the new code for "I'm not being racist but..."

They ruled out replacing Tibet with another actual Asian country (Bhutan?), went for a mashup with explicit Asian aesthetics that is explicitly Not Asian and it still goes back to the core fault of white guy learning Asian mystical powers. This is pretty much wanting to have your cake and eat it, without getting called racist because damn it, it's all the Chinese government's fault.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:32 PM on April 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


running tally of ideas I've seen here, elsewhere, just made up on the spot, etc (and this is just about setting and casting of the Ancient One, not even touching the casting of Strange MY GOD YOU COULDN'T EVEN DEIGN TO GIVE US DANNY RAND FOR THE LOVE OF--)

--the Ancient One lives in some trippy magical plane
--the Ancient One is played by Tilda Swinton and all of the kewl mystic imagery is drawn from Celtic tradition
--hey did you know that Tibet is not the only place in the Himalayas? I guess maybe C. Robert Cargill has only seen one map of Asia?

like sure, each of these ideas come with their own problems, but at least they imply some thought went into the decision, instead of "oh we must keep this ONE SPECIFIC ASPECT (Tibet), but we're not even going to really do that because Reasons, but anyway we can still cram the sets with banners with characters and red-lantern lit cityscapes and temples that are a complete architectural hodgepodge". Because Asia (why even bother differentiating?) is seen as an aesthetic, and Hollywood seems to have no damned clue why anyone would have a problem with that, which is why you get wrong-headed attempts at "rectifying" Orientalism and whitewashing via, e.g, putting digital yellowface on Scarlett Johansson
posted by Krom Tatman at 10:09 PM on April 25, 2016 [3 favorites]


I would loooove to see an Orpheus homage/ripoff with awkward comic Strange with a sudden teenage daughter instead of / in addition to Blade.

if you haven't read it, you should hunt down the Waid/Rios 4-part Strange mini
posted by Krom Tatman at 1:22 AM on April 26, 2016


It's like the screenwriters aren't even aware of the existence of Bhutan.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:32 AM on April 27, 2016


Or the Marvel tradition of making up countries as stand ins, like they did twice in Age of Ultron.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:52 PM on April 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't think it's impossible to do a non-racist "mystic Orient" or any fictional culture based on stock archetypes, so long as there's care and consideration to it. The Avatar series created multiple fantasy nations based on non-western cultures and did it without exoticizing or trivializing the cultures they were based upon. It might not look like the Marvel canon, but neither was the Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

The point is, they should try.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:09 AM on April 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


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