One man's trash is another man's treasure

April 29, 2016 5:20 PM

In 2014, Provo, Utah-based rock band Neon Trees' lead singer Tyler Glenn's came out as gay and Mormon. At the time, he seemed optimistic in his ability to navigate both identities, reporting that he received positive messages from Mormon church leaders shortly after coming out. In 2015, he commented that the LDS church seemed to be changing for the better. But with the release of the single "Trash" from Tyler's new solo endeavor and Rolling Stone's related article, it appears that all has not been well in Zion.

In 2011, LDS-church owned magazine LDS Living described the band Neon Trees as "LDS band members shining light in a world of vice." Although the band did not create explicitly Mormon-themed music, each of the band's members were noted to have been raised in the LDS church (although even at the time of that report, not all were currently members). As such, the band was seen (along with Brandon Flowers of Las Vegas-based The Killers) as an example of how Mormons can achieve cultural success in fields often associated with very un-Mormon forms of behavior while maintaining church standards. As such, the LDS church highlighted individuals like Flowers (as well as Neon Trees' drummer Elaine Bradley) as part of its "I'm a Mormon" campaign. (And though the "I'm a Mormon" campaign isn't it avenue of preference in 2016, the church is still interested in working with popular LDS artists, such as Provo-based rapper JamesTheMormon, who recently hit no. 3 on the iTunes charts for hip hop and who has tweeted that he has been asked by the church to create a hip hop video).

Tyler is the subject of a latest 3-part episode from John Dehlin's (previously) popular podcast Mormon Stories. In addition to talking about his childhood and ascent to stardom with Neon Trees, Tyler discusses that a major turning point in his faith (and his ultimate plan to eventually marry and live in the church as a married gay man) was the November 2015 LDS church policy that those who entered same-sex marriage would be considered apostates to the faith, and children raised in same-sex households would be barred from baptism until they became 18 and renounced their parents' same-sex relationships (see previously).

Per the Rolling Stone article announcing the music video, Tyler's new single Trash was meant to denounce the LDS church for its restrictive, conservative view of same-sex relationships. The imagery within the video is provocative, featuring altered versions of iconic paintings of scenes from church history and figures (such as Joseph Smith) being spat upon, the incorporation of certain Mormon temple tokens that members covenant not to reveal, and near the conclusion, Tyler drawing an red "X" on his face (perhaps symbolizing excommunication, or perhaps even being a reference to a Book of Mormon culture who marked their foreheads with red to signal their rebellion from God). Tyler describes the single as part of a solo album that will be separate from his work with Neon Trees, but notes that he still plans to work with and tour with Neon Trees. Admittedly, he's "not sure if they totally support the content" of his latest single. (While guitarist Chris Allen of the band would likely continue to support Tyler, having left the church several years ago after its involvement in California's Prop 8, it's unknown whether Tyler's controversial visuals and message will prove too much for other band members.)

posted by subversiveasset (17 comments total)

Ex-Mormon here.

The LDS Church is communicating some mixed messages right now. They seem to want to make overtures toward appealing to a younger more diverse demographic, but they're unable to shake off their essentially autocratic nature, and then the two sides clash spectacularly, with awful consequences for the church's most marginalised members. It's probably the unintentional result of a lack of clarity in its leadership, but it makes the whole thing look like a bait-and-switch.

What did James say? "A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways."
posted by fontor at 5:47 PM on April 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

What a complex issue, and I am so glad that someone with as much of a spotlight is tackling it, even though my heart hurts for the war that must be boiling inside of him.
posted by xingcat at 5:56 PM on April 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

this is a wonderfully put together post, thank you so much for putting the effort in to it. i had somehow missed his mormon stories podcast and i'll have to listen to that.

i also loved this video (that i didn't see in the links, so forgive me if this is a double post) - tyler glenn responds to david bednar's comments on gay mormons (the comments from bednar, a high ranking leader, are first followed by glenn's response - skip to 1:04 in if you just want to see glenn's part).
posted by nadawi at 7:07 PM on April 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

i think the handbook update about the approach to gay mormons has been the single hardest thing for me to get over since i left the church*. there is something about their current stance on queer mormon families that is so awful and against the core beliefs that it's hard to wrap my head around. also they do it when they know they have a suicide problem which is having an outsized impact on the queer youth of their church.

you can't tell suicidal queer kids that being themselves is so evil that they in fact don't exist, that they can never have love or the blessings involved in marriage, that if they do look for that love outside of the church their children will be marked and forbidden from the blessings of membership unless their children disown them...and then tell them that their glory is waiting for them in heaven, they will be healed, fixed, whole, they will receive the love of the father and of the son. it's just...if it were written in a cop drama where an evil cult is the monster of the week behind a rash of teen deaths it would seem a tad overwrought and on the nose. as a queer ex-mormon who luckily left before killing myself, to me it's like they handed all those kids a loaded gun and urged them to 'do the right thing.' i am beside myself with grief and anger and bewilderment at what they're doing.


*i got pretty steamed recently at some bs they said about being the gold standard when it comes to dealing with child abuse, but that's the same old lie they've always told.
posted by nadawi at 7:34 PM on April 29, 2016 [20 favorites]

you can't tell suicidal queer kids that being themselves is so evil that they in fact don't exist

Well you can, if you claim to have a direct line to God's word. It's just that telling is the true evil.

I feel terrible for Tyler. It must be awful struggling between something you intrinsically are vs. something you were indoctrinated with growing up.
posted by Nelson at 8:29 PM on April 29, 2016

i also loved this video (that i didn't see in the links, so forgive me if this is a double post) - tyler glenn responds to david bednar's comments on gay mormons (the comments from bednar, a high ranking leader, are first followed by glenn's response - skip to 1:04 in if you just want to see glenn's part).

I'd strongly recommend watching the part before that 1:04, if you're not familiar with what Bednar said. Oof.

Of course, the rebuttal...

What was meant to be a loving, encouraging remark to homosexual members within the Church has quickly been twisted, pulled out of context, and cut up by members of the media, making it appear as if Elder Bednar and the other leaders of the Church are anything but loving and supportive of its members.

Yes, loving. As in "YOU DO NOT EXIST."

From the Rolling Stone piece linked in the FPP...

This happens a lot to Glenn in Provo. Neon Trees are the city's biggest export, a New Wave-pop powerhouse with two double-platinum singles, a Buick commercial and a couple of big Glee covers. At one point, a bespectacled young guy presses his face to Glenn's hands and reverently sighs, "I should be on my knees."

Then...

"I wonder how he'll feel in about a month," Glenn muses when we clear the throng. [...] He's gay, has known he's gay since he was six years old and has been living a closeted life for decades that choked his spirit and threatened his sanity.

I'm going to assume the writer is just letting that whole sequence stand, to the credit of the reader. If so...

To quote Buddy Cole, from his correspondence with Elizabeth Windsor: "Queen to queen, sometimes you can tell."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:44 PM on April 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, LDS Living is not published by the Church, although perhaps you meant "LDS-owned" to indicate that the company is owned by members of the LDS Church, in which case, yeah, I give you that. Other than that tiny detail, great post, and a lot to think about and digest.
posted by seasparrow at 8:53 PM on April 29, 2016

LDS Living is published by Deseret Book, which is owned by Deseret Management Corporation, which is the church's holding company for for-profit businesses.

But I agree that LDS Living is not at the same level as, say, Ensign, which is officially published directly by the church.

I'd be happy if the moderators want to update to add that clarification, but I think something being stocked by or published by Deseret Book (as LDS Living is) should be seen as having a level of institutional imprimatur.
posted by subversiveasset at 8:59 PM on April 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

The content that references Mormonism is so context specific that if I hadn't read the background pieces, I wouldn't have recognized any of them. So I'm grateful for the bacground, because the part where Tyler draws a red "X" on his face, , ,perhaps a reference to a Book of Mormon culture who marked their foreheads with red to signal their rebellion from God is so cool.

"Hey God. Fuck this shit."
posted by layceepee at 9:08 PM on April 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Elaine Flowers and I share a mutual friend. I've always heard that Typer is a nice guy, so I always root for him.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:43 PM on April 29, 2016

It's funny how a compromise with bigotry ends up only shining a light on it.

This zero acceptance of the gays, what does it mean in actual practice? I guess you're damned, and you cannot participate in church society, etc etc. Excommunication from the LDS church? That doesn't mean anything to me, really.

However, instead of excommunication, withholding sacraments from your children, and you have to give them a chance to denounce you when they're adults?! That's no longer run-of-the-mill prejudice. That one is a new idea.

A new idea I can consider on its own. I can look at it without the lens of lens of gay rights or politics or the church. I can look at it as a single relationship between a man and his church. Now it becomes utterly obvious that this is crazy. If a parent demanded this it would be abusive.

A compromise with bigotry only invents new ways to be bigoted.
posted by cotterpin at 12:41 AM on April 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

This post is making me want to go to church tomorrow. It's the Welcoming Congregation Committee's annual service about LGBTQ issues and what we can do as a congregation and as people to provide a welcoming atmosphere for queer people. My mother says there's going to be a performance by a transgender choir.

To any Mormons or ex-Mormons here, queer or otherwise, who are struggling to satisfy both your spiritual needs and your need to see queer people of all stripes treated equally in their communities: Unitarian Universalism is one option. They won't even ask you to renounce your Mormonism, if that's something that matters to you. As far as they're concerned it's perfectly fine to be both a Mormon and a UU.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:14 AM on April 30, 2016 [6 favorites]

as a queer ex-mormon who luckily left before killing myself

I'm not and was not mormon but I was a christian fundamentalist throughout childhood and adolescence. I can't tell you how much this resonates with me.
posted by treepour at 6:53 AM on April 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

However, instead of excommunication, withholding sacraments from your children, and you have to give them a chance to denounce you when they're adults?! That

to be clear, it's both. gay mormons who are in same-sex relationships, especially where there is is cohabitation/marriage are to be seen as on par with attempted murderers or "forced" rapists (their words, not mine). the policy about the kids goes above and beyond that. this change in the policy isn't a compromise, it's a line in the sand.
posted by nadawi at 7:03 AM on April 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

Of course, the rebuttal...

What was meant to be a loving, encouraging remark to homosexual members within the Church has quickly been twisted, pulled out of context, and cut up by members of the media, making it appear as if Elder Bednar and the other leaders of the Church are anything but loving and supportive of its members.

Yes, loving. As in "YOU DO NOT EXIST."

The rebuttal is at least partly correct. It's apparent that rather than saying "you do not exist" Bednar was attempting to channel Paul and the idea that other identities can fade (and perhaps should fade) in the context of fellowship and pale next to our identities as children of God.

And that idea can be pretty powerful, maybe even essential. The problem isn't that Bednar invoked it. The problem is the deep tension between this idea and the ways in which the church actually reinforces identity. For example, gender identity isn't going to fade in the LDS church anytime soon, because the church does things to reinforce those identities (some positive, some negative). Likewise, policies like last November's are part of a set of things which ensure that anyone who is gay and attempting to navigate their relationship with the church may never be able to let that aspect of their identity become a background thing. When you mediate your relationship to anyone primarily through characteristic X, it erodes the message that "characteristic X isn't the most important thing about who you really are." It could even drive a guy who's tried to live that message to write a big red X on his face.

I think rather than reading Bednar's statement as "you do not exist," it might be better to give him the Pauline reading and ask that the church take it more seriously.
posted by weston at 9:52 AM on April 30, 2016

i don't know if people who aren't queer can really understand just how crazy making hearing 'i just don't believe in it" or "homosexuality doesn't exist" can be and how no matter what the intentions are, it does really just get received as 'i don't believe in you - you don't exist - you don't get to determine your own identity'. when queer mormons (post or current) affirm that we exist, we aren't misunderstanding bednar's message, we're saying we disagree with it.

anyway - i got through tyler glenn's mormon stories and wow. like a lot of things from that podcast it can meander at times and dehlin is at times clunky/out of touch, but every time i hear a queer kid who really believed and tried to make being gay and being a mormon work, i just relate to so much of it. i was especially touched by how worried glenn was/is about influencing his family to lose their faith/break apart/leave the church - the choices the church is pushing on families over this are in no way inline with their families first/families are forever core beliefs. i can only hope the ship is righted before too much more damage is done.
posted by nadawi at 10:22 AM on April 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

Wow. Thank you for this extensive post. I'm not Mormon, but even I can tell how big of a deal this is to be using their sacred tokens against them in public. After I made it through these links, and the awful Rolling Stone comments, and the reddit, and hearing the emotion in his voice on the KUTV interview you can really feel how hard of a move this was for Tyler Glenn, and how he felt it was a move he had to make. Some have made arguments about he shouldn't have been surprised when LDS teachings have always been anti-gay, but there are Catholic gays too and you can only go so far in rationalizing something you grew up with, that you hold dear, believe in, and help shapes your worldview. This appears to be a last straw scenario that when his church enacted policy (from God) that said not only was he an apostate, he could not create a family with someone he loved, and that any children would be denied access to the church and proper salvation, it just broke every last fiber that he had been holding onto the church he thought he knew and loved.

I'm not terribly hopeful the church will listen, unless forced to via some other civil liberties pressure (like in the 70s), but I really do hope it inspires a little introspection for an extremely regimented religion that knows its fair share about persecution. And that while not an all-encompassing community they may be accustomed to, the LGBT community will be there when the LDS casts them out.
posted by sweetmarie at 9:23 AM on May 2, 2016 [1 favorite]