March 29, 2002

10:38 AM

Anti-immigrant parties gain support in Europeas they tap long-standing fears about security and the dilution of national identity. The deep running concern, as in Israel, is that their countries are involuntarily becoming multicultural as guest workers and refugees, mostly Muslim, establish themselves in residence. There are about 15 million Muslims in Europe, making Islam the the continent's largest non-Christian religion. How important is national identity? What would become of democratic values in a Europeann country with Muslim population explosion? How would it affect their economy, as the immigrants are largely unskilled, heavily relying on the welfare system?
posted by semmi (9 comments total)

What does the fact that many of the immigrants are muslim have to do with "democratic values"?
posted by aramaic at 10:48 AM on March 29, 2002

What would become of democratic values in a European country with Muslim population explosion?

Hopefully multicultural.

How would it affect their economy, as the immigrants are largely unskilled, heavily relying on the welfare system?

No doubt eating steaks and driving Cadillacs, too. I think they'd be filling the jobs white Europeans don't want, and supplementing a population close to ZPG.
posted by rschram at 10:51 AM on March 29, 2002

Not all immigrants are "unskilled", many of there are here on work permits and contracts. I don't have any employment statistics in Europe handy, but I'm sure that a sifnificant chunk of their workforce are people hired from other countries. Equivocating "guest workers" with refugees in terms of their effects on the economy doesn't work very well, as one obviously is a contributor to the economy, while the latter is there for essentially political or social reasons.
posted by margaretlam at 11:12 AM on March 29, 2002

must... not ... respond .... gah.

Ok, I can't help it. I've watched the newspapers in Denmark suddenly start reporting crimes and stating that they were "commited by a danish citizen", and other
creepy attitude changes in the general media, before the election that succeded in putting one of the most racist parties in power.
Their new suggestions are to raise the marrying age of "danish citizens" to prevent the "import brides" and the media constantly churns out numbers on how many
were orginally let in as refugees, and how many more their are here thanks to "family members importing more family". Their numbers seem to jump with several
hundred percent (im not repeating them because churning numbers is not the point, besides, I find them very misleading).

In sweden the media attitude has changed from the "don't offend the other guys"-gag that could kill any normal communication between "us and them" and perhaps
break down some stereotype barries - to a full out media circus regarding the "Honor Murders" commited by insane men from [insert any islamic country here] on
their own sisters and mother for "dishonering their family". Cases like Jasmine's who was shot by her brother six weeks after being raped by a family member in Jordania, and Fadima, who was shot by her father for dating a swedish boy. (The swedish boyfriend was killed in a mysterious car accident two years
earlier).

In the US, any individual who arrives (how many refugees do the US take a year? How many do germany take? How many do sweden take? Anyone know where we can find numbers compared to population?) will eventually pledge to the flag and be a something-american, fully embracing their new home, and not having to let go of the old one they fled from. Knowing full well that people who move between cultures gain an extra
culture - there is no risk of loosing ones roots.

In Sweden schools are banned from the traditional singing of the national Anthem at graduation. It could offend "those guys not originally from Sweden". If we can't open the channels and speak to each other - and in here - how can we find the answers to prevent racism from marching forward, how can we kill stereotypes, how can we be friends? Inflamed
gag-masks will only open for the ones screaming out hate. The "dont say anything racist - HUSH!" attitude was spread so thick that it actually *became* racist! This is the breeding ground for the hate in europe. Perfect soil.

Oh, and lately in the news, Sweden suggests a new law that anyone who wants to bring family home needs to "prove ability to support and house" said family member for the next two years. Also DNA testing of children is suggested and deemed "inhumane". Reason for suggestion - a man had brought over seven children that were not his to serve as underage prostitutes. (oh that makes me sick, how could the social services not notice this?). I'm noticing that stories about random crimes are pointing at "a swedish citizen".. and I'm getting genuinly worried.

Don't put the gag on. Talk. Dont let the racists march all over europe. I apologise for not being able to find english links, maybe these are interesting to somereaders.

The problem is that "assimilation" doesn't translate to "multicultural". And multicultural means respecting *everyones* dang culture. Including the host land. I
want to sing my national anthem. I want my friends who live next to me not be offended by it. My friends aren't of course. I don't hang with dimwits.
posted by dabitch at 12:01 PM on March 29, 2002

None of you seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to immigration or cultures, or countries.

A country is for the citizens of that country. Those citizens determine the course of that country.
If they want to kick out non citizens, then that is their prerogative.

If the citizens feel a certain way, then the media of that country should pick up on that feeling, and make sure that the govt addresses that feeling.

What a concept!

You people are so propagandized by the American media that you don't have any conception of a media that actually takes its cues from the populace in general, instead of from the monied classes.
posted by username at 8:48 PM on March 29, 2002

What about the citizens of said country who utter more culturally level headed remarks such as:

"Denmark is such a rich country with so many economic and human resources that I fail to see the threat that the [People's Party] is talking about," said Peter Sloth, a 27-year-old student. "If one of the richest countries in the world can't make an extraordinary effort for the world's poorest, then I don't see who should."

"The paradox is that the majority of the [People's Party] voters are located in the countryside with very little contact with the new inhabitants," Sloth said. "I want to apologize to world society on behalf of my ignorant fellow citizens."

You see it's their country too. There will always be minorities of one sort or the other. With the rabid right's getting only 12% of the vote, that hardly ushers a way for their will to be that of Denmark's on the whole.

Therefore username, I think this little flame should be turned back on you:

. . .you (don't) seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to immigration or cultures, or countries.
posted by crasspastor at 9:10 PM on March 29, 2002

I raise a glass to the day that all my descendants are brown-skinned and almond-eyed. Let the miscegenation begin! "Race" is an outdated 19th century concept that one would think had been shown the door by now -- since human DNA is only 6% different from an earthworm, how different do you think Danes and Turks are anyway?
A country is for the citizens of that country. Those citizens determine the course of that country.
If they want to kick out non citizens, then that is their prerogative. Where can I get one of those brown shirts?
posted by fellorwaspushed at 11:03 AM on March 30, 2002

>>>>>
I raise a glass to the day that all my descendants are brown-skinned and almond-eyed. Let the miscegenation begin! "Race" is an outdated 19th century concept that one would think had been shown the door by now -- since human DNA is only 6% different from an earthworm, how different do you think Danes and Turks are anyway?
A country is for the citizens of that country. Those citizens determine the course of that country.
If they want to kick out non citizens, then that is their prerogative. Where can I get one of those brown shirts?
>>>>>


Isn't that nice and politically correct! They really did a job on you didn't they? And you since brought up the subject first, I feel compelled to address your "concerns":
You definitely would have been wearing one of those shirts along with every other conformists and "good little Bundists". And as for myself, and all the other nasty non conformists, we were doing just what I am now doing--lancing the pustulent boils on the rump of society.

(PS: You "think" (scare quotes mean you really don't think at all, just output programs) you are talking to some lily white aryan supremist; well, I am one the "Mud People" myself, and my wife has NO aryan blood.)
posted by username at 1:21 PM on March 30, 2002

Username -- what a nasty little person you are, mud coloured or not (wtf that means). Glad to hear I got under your skin, your last post makes even less sense than the one earlier, and serves only to show how your really feel about 'minorities' -- that they are pustulent boils on the rump of society. Truly creepy.

Thusfar, you have used "mud people" and "pustulent boils" to describe non-white folks. This is veering very close to what civilized people call hate speech, (What the hell -- it is hate speech) and is about as non-conformist as a Klan rally. I sincerely hope you lose your reproductive abilities in a painful way. Keep your low self esteem to yourself.
PS -- love the way you put 'concerns' and 'think' in quotes, as if you were quoting me-- you're hilarious.
posted by fellorwaspushed at 12:30 PM on April 2, 2002