Shame!
May 19, 2016 6:44 PM Subscribe
Today, Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives took to the floor, shouting "Shame!" at their Republican colleagues, after the Republican members of Congress used an unusual method to defeat a bill that appeared to have passed and would have protected LGBT workers from discrimination by government contractors.
On Wednesday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill, the National Defense Authorization Act, buried within which was a provision introduced by Rep. Steve Russell (R-Okla) permitting government contractors (whether religious organizations or not) to fire employees for being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender on the basis of religious belief.
This morning, Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney (D-NY) introduced an amendment (as part of a military spending bill) to nullify Russell's provision. At the time the clock ran out, the bill appeared to have 217 votes -- enough to pass. And then...as the chair held off bringing the gavel down, Republicans flipped their votes, defeating the measure.
According to Minority Whip Steny Hoyer, the vote flippers included Republicans Darrell Issa (Calif.), David Valadao (Calif.), Jeff Denham (Calif.), Greg Walden (Ore.), Mimi Walters (Calif.), David Yong (Iowa) and Bruce Poliquin (Maine).
On Wednesday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill, the National Defense Authorization Act, buried within which was a provision introduced by Rep. Steve Russell (R-Okla) permitting government contractors (whether religious organizations or not) to fire employees for being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender on the basis of religious belief.
This morning, Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney (D-NY) introduced an amendment (as part of a military spending bill) to nullify Russell's provision. At the time the clock ran out, the bill appeared to have 217 votes -- enough to pass. And then...as the chair held off bringing the gavel down, Republicans flipped their votes, defeating the measure.
According to Minority Whip Steny Hoyer, the vote flippers included Republicans Darrell Issa (Calif.), David Valadao (Calif.), Jeff Denham (Calif.), Greg Walden (Ore.), Mimi Walters (Calif.), David Yong (Iowa) and Bruce Poliquin (Maine).
Mutatis Mutandis.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:51 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 6:51 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
The foundation continues to crack.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 6:57 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 6:57 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Should I pretend to be surprised? The GOP are all looking at Trump's poll numbers in their districts and wondering how far right they need to push in order to not get swept out, this primary or next.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:00 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:00 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
How the fuck are Log Cabin Republicans still a thing?
posted by schmod at 7:14 PM on May 19, 2016 [40 favorites]
posted by schmod at 7:14 PM on May 19, 2016 [40 favorites]
But both parties are the same.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:16 PM on May 19, 2016 [68 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:16 PM on May 19, 2016 [68 favorites]
Just to note: changing your vote on a roll call vote isn't unusual. It happens in many or, probably, most nontrivial votes. You can watch this happen on cspan -- watch the vote totals, and as soon as one side or the other is slightly but safely above 218, several people on the losing side will defect to the winning side. Members can change their vote as often as they like, just by reinserting their card into one of the readers around the chamber and pushing a different button than they had previously pressed.
Likewise, holding a vote open longer than it was scheduled for is unusual, but only like being blond or being from California is unusual.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:17 PM on May 19, 2016 [14 favorites]
Likewise, holding a vote open longer than it was scheduled for is unusual, but only like being blond or being from California is unusual.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:17 PM on May 19, 2016 [14 favorites]
Get off your asses and vote. My little New England seaside town is trying to stave off a complete collapse of public services, including the fire department and library, no I am not kidding, by raising taxes so we pay a larger percentage on property tax, but much lower actual tax, as our property values are shit because the drown-it-in-a-bathtub conservatives want Fury Road in my town.
This voting for a tax increase, which means I am still paying less in taxes than neighboring towns in terms of actual dollars out of my wallet but I get to have a library and a professional fire department, this happens in November, right?
WRONG. Happening this Tuesday, early voting at the town hall day after tomorrow. The only ones who seem to know are the librarians and the movement-conservatives trying to pull a whammy on the elected town council. The librarians and their supporters have much nicer yard signs, and they're also "option 1" on the ballot, but still. I'm gonna be knocking on all kinds of doors the next few days.
Yes. The taxes will go up. No, we are not paying more taxes than neighboring communities. Yes, their tax rate is lower. So is your house value. Guess what happens to that once there's no professional fire dept.?
The fucker orchestrating this full-time on the Koch Brothers' dime does have a very slick web blog, tho, and an active social media presence.
Understand your community's elections schedule, and then, get your ass out to vote, because the stakes for you personally are MUCH LARGER than Hill or Drumpf.
Vote. These. Fuckers. Out. Dismantle the machine beneath them at the local and state level.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:17 PM on May 19, 2016 [125 favorites]
This voting for a tax increase, which means I am still paying less in taxes than neighboring towns in terms of actual dollars out of my wallet but I get to have a library and a professional fire department, this happens in November, right?
WRONG. Happening this Tuesday, early voting at the town hall day after tomorrow. The only ones who seem to know are the librarians and the movement-conservatives trying to pull a whammy on the elected town council. The librarians and their supporters have much nicer yard signs, and they're also "option 1" on the ballot, but still. I'm gonna be knocking on all kinds of doors the next few days.
Yes. The taxes will go up. No, we are not paying more taxes than neighboring communities. Yes, their tax rate is lower. So is your house value. Guess what happens to that once there's no professional fire dept.?
The fucker orchestrating this full-time on the Koch Brothers' dime does have a very slick web blog, tho, and an active social media presence.
Understand your community's elections schedule, and then, get your ass out to vote, because the stakes for you personally are MUCH LARGER than Hill or Drumpf.
Vote. These. Fuckers. Out. Dismantle the machine beneath them at the local and state level.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:17 PM on May 19, 2016 [125 favorites]
This is my favorite part:
posted by sallybrown at 7:18 PM on May 19, 2016 [138 favorites]
“There will be order in this chamber,” the chair said.Sometimes you just run out of fucks to give.
“No there will not be!” yelled Rep. Gwen Moore (D-Wis.), who stood at the base of the podium. She pounded her fists on the table in front of her.
posted by sallybrown at 7:18 PM on May 19, 2016 [138 favorites]
"Let us palaver a bit," indeed.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 7:23 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 7:23 PM on May 19, 2016
As has been said here, whether Republicans or Democrats win all these congressional, state, and local elections makes a huge difference in the real lives of millions of people.
For all the disappointments people have about the Democratic Party, many of them quite legitimate, one party broadly speaking wants to go in the right direction too slowly... and the other one wants to barrel headlong in the wrong direction as fast as humanly possible. Take your pick. (Or stay home and let someone else pick for you.)
posted by bcamarda at 7:25 PM on May 19, 2016 [75 favorites]
For all the disappointments people have about the Democratic Party, many of them quite legitimate, one party broadly speaking wants to go in the right direction too slowly... and the other one wants to barrel headlong in the wrong direction as fast as humanly possible. Take your pick. (Or stay home and let someone else pick for you.)
posted by bcamarda at 7:25 PM on May 19, 2016 [75 favorites]
Vote. These. Fuckers. Out.
Without compromise, on every level. There is no such thing as a moderate republican and not a one of them can be trusted near any form of government.
posted by Artw at 7:26 PM on May 19, 2016 [76 favorites]
Without compromise, on every level. There is no such thing as a moderate republican and not a one of them can be trusted near any form of government.
posted by Artw at 7:26 PM on May 19, 2016 [76 favorites]
A vote for Republicans is a vote for the Republic of Gilead.
posted by JohnFromGR at 7:34 PM on May 19, 2016 [52 favorites]
posted by JohnFromGR at 7:34 PM on May 19, 2016 [52 favorites]
The GOP are all looking at Trump's poll numbers in their districts and wondering how far right they need to push
I don't think successful politicians are under some delusion that Trump's success is reflective of "rightward" desire on the part of the voting public. Trump is as pure an expression of "nonideological" populism as we've had in this country for a long time. That's what makes him scary.
posted by Slothrup at 8:02 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't think successful politicians are under some delusion that Trump's success is reflective of "rightward" desire on the part of the voting public. Trump is as pure an expression of "nonideological" populism as we've had in this country for a long time. That's what makes him scary.
posted by Slothrup at 8:02 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oklahoma’s Bold Anti-Abortion Activists Are Depending on Donald Trump
posted by Artw at 8:08 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by Artw at 8:08 PM on May 19, 2016
Republicans are saying privately that if the amendment had passed, it would have killed the appropriations bill because Republicans would no longer vote for it.1.) There were enough Republicans ready to vote for the amendment itself, so this seems a little shifty.
"Our veterans and troops were prioritized over a political messaging amendment that could have jeopardized the final passage of the appropriations bill," said Speaker Paul Ryan's spokeswoman AshLee Strong in a statement.
2.) When your argument is that you would have had to kill the appropriations bill because of this, that's not prioritizing the troops. That is, in fact, the opposite. That is publically stating that you prioritize discrimination over the troops.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:13 PM on May 19, 2016 [46 favorites]
Rep. Gwen Moore is my hero of the day.
posted by biogeo at 8:20 PM on May 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 8:20 PM on May 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
At least the Democrats didn't shear off the Republicans beautiful long locks and make them parade through the narrow, mucky, cobbled streets of King's Landing while thousands of disgusted constituents jeered and lobbed trash at them and bared their genitals.
I totally vote we do that to them next time, though.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:23 PM on May 19, 2016 [29 favorites]
I totally vote we do that to them next time, though.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:23 PM on May 19, 2016 [29 favorites]
Totally not surprised Darrell Issa was involved in this, he of the "burn it all down THEN collect on the fire insurance".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:24 PM on May 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:24 PM on May 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
3.) When accusing Dems of prioritizing LGBT people over veterans and soldiers, maybe stop for the three seconds it would take to recognize that THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE.
posted by koeselitz at 8:48 PM on May 19, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 8:48 PM on May 19, 2016 [56 favorites]
What was the intended strategy of the flippers, though? "This vote will not pass, so I will pretend to be on the side of principle - oops, it's passing! Principle out the window!"?
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:49 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:49 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
JohnFromGR: A vote for Republicans is a vote for the Republic of Gilead.
Does the G in GOP actually stand for Gilead? Shit, it all makes so much sense now!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:55 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Does the G in GOP actually stand for Gilead? Shit, it all makes so much sense now!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:55 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
A vote for Republicans is a vote for the Republic of Gilead.
Obviously they see The Handmaid's Tale as a how-to guide rather than a cautionary tale...
posted by SisterHavana at 9:59 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
Obviously they see The Handmaid's Tale as a how-to guide rather than a cautionary tale...
posted by SisterHavana at 9:59 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
So this is Oregon -- tolerant Oregon?
posted by klausman at 10:40 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by klausman at 10:40 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oregon, like Washington and California, is a couple sizable blue cities in a sea of red.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:42 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:42 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Just how racist, homophobic, and xenophobic do I need to be to get on that Trump gravy train?"
posted by benzenedream at 11:20 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 11:20 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah anywhere in Oregon not on the coast or along Interstate 5 is very rural outdoorsy republican. Mostly the same for Washington too.
posted by JauntyFedora at 11:51 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by JauntyFedora at 11:51 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
What was the intended strategy of the flippers, though?
Eh, they probably genuinely feel that LGBT discrimination is a bad thing, but on balance not quite as bad for them personally as retaliation from their own party so intense that the crater would be visible from space (a possibility they hadn't considered until someone cordially brought it to their attention when it looked like the bill would pass). Cowards unwilling to stand up for what they know is right, in other words, not crafty House of Cards type with a genuine strategy as such.
posted by No-sword at 11:58 PM on May 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
Eh, they probably genuinely feel that LGBT discrimination is a bad thing, but on balance not quite as bad for them personally as retaliation from their own party so intense that the crater would be visible from space (a possibility they hadn't considered until someone cordially brought it to their attention when it looked like the bill would pass). Cowards unwilling to stand up for what they know is right, in other words, not crafty House of Cards type with a genuine strategy as such.
posted by No-sword at 11:58 PM on May 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
But both parties are the same.
Yes, but when one hears that and scoffs, remember that there is a pro-business core that extends across both parties that ensures that it gets to do what it wants to in order to Keep America Running, regardless of the circus sideshow topics that glue eyes and ears to media like talk radio, cable news, Facebook, TPB, Metafilter, etc. Getting us to focus on the sideshow, yell at each other, and give less energy and attention to all the other corrupt shit going on — all of that is fairly intentional.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:01 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes, but when one hears that and scoffs, remember that there is a pro-business core that extends across both parties that ensures that it gets to do what it wants to in order to Keep America Running, regardless of the circus sideshow topics that glue eyes and ears to media like talk radio, cable news, Facebook, TPB, Metafilter, etc. Getting us to focus on the sideshow, yell at each other, and give less energy and attention to all the other corrupt shit going on — all of that is fairly intentional.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:01 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
So are you saying LGBT rights are a sideshow? Are you saying abortion is a diversion from the IMPORTANT matters of the day?
posted by happyroach at 12:56 AM on May 20, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 12:56 AM on May 20, 2016 [30 favorites]
Well, I'm not a lungful of dragon but I tend to agree with them that the real issue that needs to be fixed is money in politics and their corrupting influence, from campaign finance reform to lobbying. If everyone is stuck on Morality Issue With Religious Implications Of The Week no one is thinking about the serious problems with American political infrastructure or how their local candidates contribute to that overall picture. Congress has the lowest approval rating and yet everyone is voting their guy back in because their guy isn't the problem. It's the rest of Congress. Right? Yeah, no.
posted by xyzzy at 1:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 1:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
If everyone is stuck on Morality Issue With Religious Implications Of The Week no one is thinking about the serious problems with American political infrastructure or how their local candidates contribute to that overall picture.
LGBT rights are a fucking serious issue, the continual legal fuckery to remove and limit them is one of the serious problems with American politics. This is not any less fucking important.
posted by Dysk at 3:54 AM on May 20, 2016 [34 favorites]
LGBT rights are a fucking serious issue, the continual legal fuckery to remove and limit them is one of the serious problems with American politics. This is not any less fucking important.
posted by Dysk at 3:54 AM on May 20, 2016 [34 favorites]
Ah, yes. The party of people that can only hold one thought at a time. Glad to have your input.
Really sick of individuals who say there is only one important cause or "real issue" that must be fixed first before ANY movement can be made on any other front. It usually means that's the only issue they're interested in fixing, the only one that affects them at all, and if they ever achieved it they would quickly decide that everything's fine so there's nothing else to do.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:56 AM on May 20, 2016 [21 favorites]
Really sick of individuals who say there is only one important cause or "real issue" that must be fixed first before ANY movement can be made on any other front. It usually means that's the only issue they're interested in fixing, the only one that affects them at all, and if they ever achieved it they would quickly decide that everything's fine so there's nothing else to do.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:56 AM on May 20, 2016 [21 favorites]
Rep. Gwen Moore is my hero of the day.
That's my rep. (I'm so proud)
posted by drezdn at 4:38 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's my rep. (I'm so proud)
posted by drezdn at 4:38 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Please. Stop with the malicious, presumptive, and hyperbolic vitriol. The recent regressions on issues like abortion rights (which do directly affect me, thank you very much) and attempts to legalize and codify discrimination against minorities are sideshows to the people doing this shit. Not to me, not to you (presumably), but TO THEM. They do this to appeal to their base, keep their opponents occupied, and get people like you and me to go crazy with anger and horror. The moment they lose (like with same sex marriage), they mostly shut up about that topic and pick a new thing. It's a never ending cycle. And it continues because the system is broken. We can keep plugging leaks in the sinking ship, sure. We can plug 20 or 50 at once. But the ship's design is crap.
posted by xyzzy at 5:22 AM on May 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 5:22 AM on May 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
Hey everyone! Just popping into this thread about civil rights to say: Wake Up Sheeple. Hope you're having a good morning and that I didn't flip your wig to hard.
Love,
A woke bro
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:30 AM on May 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
Love,
A woke bro
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:30 AM on May 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
The moment they lose (like with same sex marriage), they mostly shut up about that topic and pick a new thing.
That explains why it's so easy for women to get abortions 43 years after Roe.
posted by Etrigan at 5:45 AM on May 20, 2016 [44 favorites]
That explains why it's so easy for women to get abortions 43 years after Roe.
posted by Etrigan at 5:45 AM on May 20, 2016 [44 favorites]
permitting government contractors (whether religious organizations or not) to fire employees for being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender
The amendment is linked in the HuffPo article and applies to religious: orgs, corps, educational institutions, societies.
(The language is identical to that in the ADA)
posted by jpe at 5:53 AM on May 20, 2016
The amendment is linked in the HuffPo article and applies to religious: orgs, corps, educational institutions, societies.
(The language is identical to that in the ADA)
posted by jpe at 5:53 AM on May 20, 2016
But the ship's design is crap.
We're not disagreeing about that. But the problem with a leaky ship isn't that it needs to be scrapped and replaced with a shiny new ship. The problem is the leaky ship is carrying a ton of people on it and it's in the middle of the ocean. If you want to spend all your time building a new ship and sending it out to offload all the passengers from the leaky one, you're still going to have to put some effort into keeping the damn thing afloat until you can reach it. Otherwise you've just spent all your time building a nice shiny boat to collect the bodies.
Patch the problems, build a new solution. Do both. If you fixate on the former, nothing improves. If you fixate on the latter, the majority are seriously damaged. It's not either/or.
Do both.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:59 AM on May 20, 2016 [25 favorites]
We're not disagreeing about that. But the problem with a leaky ship isn't that it needs to be scrapped and replaced with a shiny new ship. The problem is the leaky ship is carrying a ton of people on it and it's in the middle of the ocean. If you want to spend all your time building a new ship and sending it out to offload all the passengers from the leaky one, you're still going to have to put some effort into keeping the damn thing afloat until you can reach it. Otherwise you've just spent all your time building a nice shiny boat to collect the bodies.
Patch the problems, build a new solution. Do both. If you fixate on the former, nothing improves. If you fixate on the latter, the majority are seriously damaged. It's not either/or.
Do both.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:59 AM on May 20, 2016 [25 favorites]
The moment they lose (like with same sex marriage), they mostly shut up about that topic and pick a new thing.
You realize you're posting this in a thread about how the House just passed legislation permitting LGBT discrimination by government contractors, right?
posted by sallybrown at 6:44 AM on May 20, 2016 [16 favorites]
You realize you're posting this in a thread about how the House just passed legislation permitting LGBT discrimination by government contractors, right?
posted by sallybrown at 6:44 AM on May 20, 2016 [16 favorites]
JohnFromGR: "A vote for Republicans is a vote for the Republic of Gilead."
But... but... Isn't there balm in Gilead?
posted by Splunge at 6:50 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
But... but... Isn't there balm in Gilead?
posted by Splunge at 6:50 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I totally understand being upset about this being defeated, but vote changing is not an unusual process at all. This is just business as usual - votes being whipped, people being pressured to get in line.
posted by corb at 6:57 AM on May 20, 2016
posted by corb at 6:57 AM on May 20, 2016
Ho hum then.
posted by agregoli at 7:00 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 7:00 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
Obviously they see The Handmaid's Tale as a how-to guide rather than a cautionary tale...
On the shelf next to Plumbing for Dummies, The Turner Diaries, and The Beer Can Cookbook.
posted by JohnFromGR at 7:03 AM on May 20, 2016
On the shelf next to Plumbing for Dummies, The Turner Diaries, and The Beer Can Cookbook.
posted by JohnFromGR at 7:03 AM on May 20, 2016
These antics seem to becoming broadly unpopular, but it doesn't matter.
The right-wing can always fall back on abortion, or any other number of hot-button issues to draw attention away from the fact that they're continuing to fight unpopular battles that they lost a long time ago.
It's not quite the same thing, but the House did something with the military here. The Republicans are masters of this sort of politics, and nobody ever calls them out on it.
posted by schmod at 7:17 AM on May 20, 2016
The right-wing can always fall back on abortion, or any other number of hot-button issues to draw attention away from the fact that they're continuing to fight unpopular battles that they lost a long time ago.
It's not quite the same thing, but the House did something with the military here. The Republicans are masters of this sort of politics, and nobody ever calls them out on it.
posted by schmod at 7:17 AM on May 20, 2016
The moment they lose (like with same sex marriage), they mostly shut up about that topic and pick a new thing.
That explains why it's so easy for women to get abortions 43 years after Roe.
And speaking of mostly shutting up about abortion, Oklahoma is straight-up flipping off Roe as of fucking today.
posted by Etrigan at 7:19 AM on May 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
That explains why it's so easy for women to get abortions 43 years after Roe.
And speaking of mostly shutting up about abortion, Oklahoma is straight-up flipping off Roe as of fucking today.
posted by Etrigan at 7:19 AM on May 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
> LGBT rights are a fucking serious issue
The Democrats and Republicans have focused their public face toward gender and reproductive issues and the Second Amendment for decades now - and they are important, yes - but when they talk about this time a century from now, are they going to talk about a bill to protect LGBT* people working for government contractors - or talk about the ruinous foreign wars, the massive grab of trillions of dollars from the bottom 70% of America, the onset of systematic universal surveillance by the government, and the failure of the largest and most powerful government in the history of the planet to respond to climate change in any substantive way until it was too late?
So yes - I think this is at least in part a smokescreen to distract people while our society is looted, absolutely.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 7:26 AM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
The Democrats and Republicans have focused their public face toward gender and reproductive issues and the Second Amendment for decades now - and they are important, yes - but when they talk about this time a century from now, are they going to talk about a bill to protect LGBT* people working for government contractors - or talk about the ruinous foreign wars, the massive grab of trillions of dollars from the bottom 70% of America, the onset of systematic universal surveillance by the government, and the failure of the largest and most powerful government in the history of the planet to respond to climate change in any substantive way until it was too late?
So yes - I think this is at least in part a smokescreen to distract people while our society is looted, absolutely.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 7:26 AM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
Politically speaking, I have come to reject the idea that there are "social issues" vs. "economic issues."
They are the same issues.
People being denied a job/livelihood due to orientation is an economic problem AND a social problem.
People being sold subprime loans due to their race is an economic problem AND a social problem.
The lost potential and productivity that stems from forcing whole sections of humanity into substandard living, schooling and career opportunities (not to mention the costs of homelessness and prison) hurt our country's bottom line and our ability to innovate, and suck up many of our resources, yet we do it anyway.
Contraception costs far less than enforced childbirth, and helps the economy far more (in terms of lost productivity and welfare claims and so on), but people who claim to be concerned with lowering costs also oppose it vehemently in the teeth of facts and logic.
You can't disentangle economics from social justice.
posted by emjaybee at 7:26 AM on May 20, 2016 [46 favorites]
They are the same issues.
People being denied a job/livelihood due to orientation is an economic problem AND a social problem.
People being sold subprime loans due to their race is an economic problem AND a social problem.
The lost potential and productivity that stems from forcing whole sections of humanity into substandard living, schooling and career opportunities (not to mention the costs of homelessness and prison) hurt our country's bottom line and our ability to innovate, and suck up many of our resources, yet we do it anyway.
Contraception costs far less than enforced childbirth, and helps the economy far more (in terms of lost productivity and welfare claims and so on), but people who claim to be concerned with lowering costs also oppose it vehemently in the teeth of facts and logic.
You can't disentangle economics from social justice.
posted by emjaybee at 7:26 AM on May 20, 2016 [46 favorites]
Vote changing is not unusual, holding floor votes open in an obvious attempt to change the outcome is. It's not unprecedented, but it's not business as usual, either.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:34 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:34 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
This isn't 'upset' that the amendment didn't pass, this is OUTRAGED RIGHTEOUS ANGER that discrimination is being enshrined in law.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:41 AM on May 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:41 AM on May 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
but when they talk about this time a century from now, are they going to talk about...
They are going to talk about the tragic disaster of global warming that we just let happen.
Since we've got that established, can we please not derail this thread anymore with "but x issue is THE REAL ISSUE".
Thanks.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:53 AM on May 20, 2016 [16 favorites]
They are going to talk about the tragic disaster of global warming that we just let happen.
Since we've got that established, can we please not derail this thread anymore with "but x issue is THE REAL ISSUE".
Thanks.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:53 AM on May 20, 2016 [16 favorites]
This isn't 'upset' that the amendment didn't pass, this is OUTRAGED RIGHTEOUS ANGER that discrimination is being enshrined in law.
It's not enshrined in law yet. Worst case the Senate will be "fuck you and the horse you rode in on" or Obama will veto it.
posted by Talez at 7:54 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's not enshrined in law yet. Worst case the Senate will be "fuck you and the horse you rode in on" or Obama will veto it.
posted by Talez at 7:54 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Land of the Free and Home of the Brave... unless you are gay, black, trans, pregnant...
Honestly, when I hear the prez referred to as "Leader of the Free World" I just laugh nowadays. America, you are a joke, the rest of the world looks on in amazement at how awful your country has become.
posted by marienbad at 8:03 AM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
Honestly, when I hear the prez referred to as "Leader of the Free World" I just laugh nowadays. America, you are a joke, the rest of the world looks on in amazement at how awful your country has become.
posted by marienbad at 8:03 AM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
and they are important, yes - but when they talk about this time a century from now
Who. The hell. Cares. This bill is aiming to cause problems right here and right now by forcing us all back into the closet.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:04 AM on May 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
Who. The hell. Cares. This bill is aiming to cause problems right here and right now by forcing us all back into the closet.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:04 AM on May 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
Meanwhile, back at the ranch in Oklahoma, there's an "emergency" brewin'...
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:13 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:13 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
If somebody sets me on fire to distract from the men stealing my life savings, I'm still on fire.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on May 20, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on May 20, 2016 [26 favorites]
I think this is at least in part a smokescreen to distract people while our society is looted, absolutely.
Must be nice to have the level of privilege where economics is the big issue, and being made into a second class citizen is not.
would love to see people rooming to Martin Luther Mind how his marches are a smokescreen.
posted by happyroach at 8:35 AM on May 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
Must be nice to have the level of privilege where economics is the big issue, and being made into a second class citizen is not.
would love to see people rooming to Martin Luther Mind how his marches are a smokescreen.
posted by happyroach at 8:35 AM on May 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
Some prime grade Well, Actually going on in this thread.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:01 AM on May 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:01 AM on May 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
lol that we're having a "But what about economic justice!!!" derail in a thread about Republicans using procedural chicanery to pass a bill which is undoubtedly bigoted against L.G.B.T. people, but also deeply anti-labor.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:03 AM on May 20, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:03 AM on May 20, 2016 [20 favorites]
if people want to talk about campaign finance reform or whatever the fuck so badly, maybe go make your own thread about that issue and stop shitting up this one.
posted by nadawi at 9:06 AM on May 20, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:06 AM on May 20, 2016 [14 favorites]
You can't disentangle economics from social justice.
You can't and it's interesting that a lot of these bills end up being riders to other laws or which include legal components that also punish poor people. Like North Carolina's HB2, which included a provision to keep municipalities from raising the minimum wage. That part didn't get talked about much because of the identity politics in the rest of the bill — so that's one reason why focusing on the divisiveness is good for people in power. For the NDAA, one goal is to leverage hate for LGBT people to be able to fire people at will. (Another important reason is to fire up a voting base over a divisive social issue during an election year.) One serious way to attack these bills that gets results is to make partnerships with labor unions. Marsha Botzer who founded and runs the Ingersoll Gender Center here in Seattle does that very thing, for example, because a lot of anti-LGBT discrimination has a real economic component, and she has found that building alliances with people who share a common struggle can lead to real systemic progress.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:17 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
You can't and it's interesting that a lot of these bills end up being riders to other laws or which include legal components that also punish poor people. Like North Carolina's HB2, which included a provision to keep municipalities from raising the minimum wage. That part didn't get talked about much because of the identity politics in the rest of the bill — so that's one reason why focusing on the divisiveness is good for people in power. For the NDAA, one goal is to leverage hate for LGBT people to be able to fire people at will. (Another important reason is to fire up a voting base over a divisive social issue during an election year.) One serious way to attack these bills that gets results is to make partnerships with labor unions. Marsha Botzer who founded and runs the Ingersoll Gender Center here in Seattle does that very thing, for example, because a lot of anti-LGBT discrimination has a real economic component, and she has found that building alliances with people who share a common struggle can lead to real systemic progress.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:17 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
For the economy is in the shitter that's when all the fascists come out anyway, so yeah, they're highly linked.
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
she has found that building alliances with people who share a common struggle can lead to real systemic progress.
You do that my finding the right frame and speaking from there. The DOJ pitched up the *perfect* response to HB2 that speaks to heart of the matter, nullifies the weapon at the tip of their phalanx of attack and shuts their whole operation down.
Follow the DOJ, people. It's seriously the freshest message in a long damn time and one that I can't see a legal way around for the opposition parties.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:21 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
You do that my finding the right frame and speaking from there. The DOJ pitched up the *perfect* response to HB2 that speaks to heart of the matter, nullifies the weapon at the tip of their phalanx of attack and shuts their whole operation down.
Follow the DOJ, people. It's seriously the freshest message in a long damn time and one that I can't see a legal way around for the opposition parties.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:21 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
...their "weapon at the tip of the phalanx" being to stir up a nationwide wave of disgust and fear against trans women.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile, back at the ranch in Oklahoma, there's an "emergency" brewin'...
That just means the law takes effect immediately, not subject to a 90 day waiting period.
posted by jpe at 9:55 AM on May 20, 2016
That just means the law takes effect immediately, not subject to a 90 day waiting period.
posted by jpe at 9:55 AM on May 20, 2016
I'm just using the language they use for lawyerin' their lawin', whatever the word "emergency" means for them, I'm good! I don't really wanna get into too many details about what exactly their "emergency" looks like you know, it's their business and all and we all got a life to live... and I'd expect them to return the same favor to me in regards to my gender.
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:06 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:06 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Exactly; the emergency law is supposed to be used in case of a situation so dire it can't wait out the review period. I think a rational person would find that a bit of a stretch in this particular case and as a serious subversion of the emergency law as intended when enacted.
posted by Mitheral at 10:07 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 10:07 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm just using the language they use for lawyerin' their lawin', whatever the word "emergency" means for them
I know. And I'm telling you what they mean by it.
the emergency law is supposed to be used in case of a situation so dire it can't wait out the review period.
That's not how it's used. It's used routinely and not just for emergencies.
A nice law review article on the subject is here.
posted by jpe at 10:13 AM on May 20, 2016
I know. And I'm telling you what they mean by it.
the emergency law is supposed to be used in case of a situation so dire it can't wait out the review period.
That's not how it's used. It's used routinely and not just for emergencies.
A nice law review article on the subject is here.
posted by jpe at 10:13 AM on May 20, 2016
EMERGENCY! WE NEED THE WORLD TO KNOW WE ARE SHITTY BIGOTS RIGHT NOW!
I assume the state is an economic ruin and everything is thoroughly mismanaged, because that shit is just a given.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I assume the state is an economic ruin and everything is thoroughly mismanaged, because that shit is just a given.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
The public education system is figuratively collapsing and the big news yesterday was that a highway overpass literally collapsed, so.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:22 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:22 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know. And I'm telling you what they mean by it.
Could you maybe not? It's not relevant to the topic at hand, and reads as boring pedantry, not to mention dismissive.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:25 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah anywhere in Oregon not on the coast or along Interstate 5 is very rural outdoorsy republican. Mostly the same for Washington too.
Hi yeah this is so true it's sadly hilarious, as in I grew up in Springfield (look at a map, it's right next to Eugene, and thus... not on I5, while liberal Eugene is). Anyone who recognizes my handle and posting history will know I grew up with a fundamentalist Evangelical family. Oregon, people. The same Oregon with one senator and three representatives, one of them from Springfield, who voted against the Iraq war.
FWIW this dude Walden is the only Republican congressman Oregon has, and yeah.
Shouldn't flipping votes be disallowed? It seems, at the very least, a supremely dishonest practice.
posted by fraula at 10:26 AM on May 20, 2016
Hi yeah this is so true it's sadly hilarious, as in I grew up in Springfield (look at a map, it's right next to Eugene, and thus... not on I5, while liberal Eugene is). Anyone who recognizes my handle and posting history will know I grew up with a fundamentalist Evangelical family. Oregon, people. The same Oregon with one senator and three representatives, one of them from Springfield, who voted against the Iraq war.
FWIW this dude Walden is the only Republican congressman Oregon has, and yeah.
Shouldn't flipping votes be disallowed? It seems, at the very least, a supremely dishonest practice.
posted by fraula at 10:26 AM on May 20, 2016
So what in the damn tarnation hell is this world coming to when emergencies are non-emergencies and women with willies are foulin' up our ladies room's all across this god-forsaked country?!?!?
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:27 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:27 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know, that lawyer words sometimes mean something different than what they normally mean sure is crazy.
What a world!
posted by jpe at 10:29 AM on May 20, 2016
What a world!
posted by jpe at 10:29 AM on May 20, 2016
If you all will excuse me I have an emergency to take care of that requires me to briefly retire to the ladies room.
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:31 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:31 AM on May 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
I assume the state is an economic ruin and everything is thoroughly mismanaged, because that shit is just a given.
He shoots he scores!
posted by Navelgazer at 10:55 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
He shoots he scores!
posted by Navelgazer at 10:55 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
all this fighting over LGBT is extremely convenient.
Those folks at Bohemian Grove I'm sure are rubbing elbows and chortling about their abilities to abscond with the world's wealth at my expense, whilst sipping the blood of virgins from silver chalices handed down to their Masonic order from the direct descendants of the Rosicrucian Knights.
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:59 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Those folks at Bohemian Grove I'm sure are rubbing elbows and chortling about their abilities to abscond with the world's wealth at my expense, whilst sipping the blood of virgins from silver chalices handed down to their Masonic order from the direct descendants of the Rosicrucian Knights.
posted by Annika Cicada at 10:59 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
He shoots he scores!
posted by Etrigan at 11:00 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
the national firestorm over how organic your junk should be to poop in a bathroom of your choice.I need one of those browser extensions that replaces "bathroom bill" with this.
posted by Etrigan at 11:00 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
One of the frustrating things about being a Blue person in a Blue state is that my Senators and Congresspeople are, by and large, doing the right thing and fighting the good fight.
I have exactly zero ability to vote out Darrell Fucking Issa and his compatriots. So, "vote the bastards out" is a fine thing to say in theory, but...
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:43 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have exactly zero ability to vote out Darrell Fucking Issa and his compatriots. So, "vote the bastards out" is a fine thing to say in theory, but...
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:43 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Patch the problems, build a new solution. Do both. If you fixate on the former, nothing improves. If you fixate on the latter, the majority are seriously damaged. It's not either/or.
The thing that concerns me is that the narrower we make the argument the more difficult it is to patch these leaks over time. Almost all of this TRAP garbage is based on a single phrase choice ("undue burden") in Roe v Wade. Same sex marriage is broadly legal, but it's still possible to use suspect procedure to enshrine discrimination in just the way the OP describes. No one is writing about the Supreme Court nomination abomination because there's no movement that's exciting enough to write about. And when it comes to state stuff, I can't do anything here in NY about N. Carolina, California, or Oklahoma. Four of the flippers in this very instance were from California, a state that has been reliably blue for Presidential elections since 1992 but seems to be Republican in every other way. I guess I can only hope that the concerned folks in California have enough voting power to punish these people in the next election. If they can even remember that they need punishing and haven't been distracted by some other leak in the meantime.
posted by xyzzy at 11:59 AM on May 20, 2016
The thing that concerns me is that the narrower we make the argument the more difficult it is to patch these leaks over time. Almost all of this TRAP garbage is based on a single phrase choice ("undue burden") in Roe v Wade. Same sex marriage is broadly legal, but it's still possible to use suspect procedure to enshrine discrimination in just the way the OP describes. No one is writing about the Supreme Court nomination abomination because there's no movement that's exciting enough to write about. And when it comes to state stuff, I can't do anything here in NY about N. Carolina, California, or Oklahoma. Four of the flippers in this very instance were from California, a state that has been reliably blue for Presidential elections since 1992 but seems to be Republican in every other way. I guess I can only hope that the concerned folks in California have enough voting power to punish these people in the next election. If they can even remember that they need punishing and haven't been distracted by some other leak in the meantime.
posted by xyzzy at 11:59 AM on May 20, 2016
Or an understanding that legislative words have precise, layered meanings?
I am literally taking a second afternoon off work to go to court at this literal moment to deal with a gender marker change petition where the judge yesterday took issue with the word "correct" and required me to change it to "amend" before she'll sign it.
All because the dept. of vital stats here requires a super nuanced wording in order to change and seal a birth certificate.
So yeah I know about how this shit goes.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:00 PM on May 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
I am literally taking a second afternoon off work to go to court at this literal moment to deal with a gender marker change petition where the judge yesterday took issue with the word "correct" and required me to change it to "amend" before she'll sign it.
All because the dept. of vital stats here requires a super nuanced wording in order to change and seal a birth certificate.
So yeah I know about how this shit goes.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:00 PM on May 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
From our point of view civil rights and corruption are equally important. But to the people looting everything in sight all this fighting over LGBT is extremely convenient.
You know, it really doesn't matter what the people with legislative power and their backers are finding convenient or not. What matters is their actions that are actively hurting people I love. And that people are coming into this thread to say that no, it's actually economics that are the important thing.
So maybe, just maybe, people could stop Leftsplaining long enough to consider that their little digressions about What's r
Really Important in politics are actively making things more painful here.
posted by happyroach at 1:37 PM on May 20, 2016 [11 favorites]
You know, it really doesn't matter what the people with legislative power and their backers are finding convenient or not. What matters is their actions that are actively hurting people I love. And that people are coming into this thread to say that no, it's actually economics that are the important thing.
So maybe, just maybe, people could stop Leftsplaining long enough to consider that their little digressions about What's r
Really Important in politics are actively making things more painful here.
posted by happyroach at 1:37 PM on May 20, 2016 [11 favorites]
In a shocking display of Sooner State sanity, Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin (R) has vetoed the bill to make abortion a felony.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:03 PM on May 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:03 PM on May 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
Only because she thinks it won't stick and she doesn't want a challenge to it to confirm Roe.
posted by gingerest at 5:17 PM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by gingerest at 5:17 PM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
On likes to think she's avoiding costly and doomed legal action because it would cost her state and drag its name through the mud, but that sounds more likely, yes.
posted by Artw at 5:24 PM on May 20, 2016
posted by Artw at 5:24 PM on May 20, 2016
On likes to think she's avoiding costly and doomed legal action because it would cost her state and drag its name through the mud
any amount of reading about governor fallin will clear this right up. i'm of the mind that she gets a particular joy in seeing oklahoma mocked and makes it an easy target when every possible. for instance, she had her offspring pull a trailer up on the governor mansion grounds to get around rules about who could reside there.
posted by nadawi at 6:00 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
any amount of reading about governor fallin will clear this right up. i'm of the mind that she gets a particular joy in seeing oklahoma mocked and makes it an easy target when every possible. for instance, she had her offspring pull a trailer up on the governor mansion grounds to get around rules about who could reside there.
posted by nadawi at 6:00 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Democrats and Republicans have focused their public face toward gender and reproductive issues and the Second Amendment for decades now - and they are important, yes - but when they talk about this time a century from now, are they going to talk about a bill to protect LGBT* people working for government contractors - or talk about the ruinous foreign wars, the massive grab of trillions of dollars from the bottom 70% of America, the onset of systematic universal surveillance by the government, and the failure of the largest and most powerful government in the history of the planet to respond to climate change in any substantive way until it was too late?
I dunno mate, we manage to talk about WWII, the Korean War, Vietnam and still get a mention for the civil rights movements and the symbolic impact of the way Turing was treated when we talk mid-twentieth century, I'd not assume this shit will just wash with time.
posted by Dysk at 9:41 PM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
I dunno mate, we manage to talk about WWII, the Korean War, Vietnam and still get a mention for the civil rights movements and the symbolic impact of the way Turing was treated when we talk mid-twentieth century, I'd not assume this shit will just wash with time.
posted by Dysk at 9:41 PM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
Mod note: For people who want to talk about campaign finance or the economy, there are a couple of open threads (1, 2), not to mention the election threads. For those who want to talk about the Oklahoma bill and abortion law, there are at least a couple of open threads (1, 2). This thread is about the bill that that would have protected LGBT workers from discrimination by government contractors and how it was defeated, as it says very very clearly, right up there in the post. Please stop derailing.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:30 AM on May 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:30 AM on May 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Well, so we lost. Gummo, the third Koch Brother, had 1200 votes... but the Good Guys had 1100 votes. We are awake and alert, we just had a slow start because we did not realize the money arrayed against good governance.
O I forgot, actual voting was cancelled at the last minute, only early voting on Saturday counted, thanks for playing!
The budget that explicitly killed the library and FD was handily defeated, thank Christ. The budget that implicitly killed the library and FD now has to save the library and FD, as they did a shit-ton of last-minute campaigning. So, no roads repaved this year! Hooray! Shiny and chrome!
Trump is now ahead of Hillary in the polls. Let that sink in a bit. He's so far behind Sanders, he'd need binoculars to see a horse race. That's OK, Sanders is going to lose, and now Trump is on track to be our next president.
This is fine.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:43 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
O I forgot, actual voting was cancelled at the last minute, only early voting on Saturday counted, thanks for playing!
The budget that explicitly killed the library and FD was handily defeated, thank Christ. The budget that implicitly killed the library and FD now has to save the library and FD, as they did a shit-ton of last-minute campaigning. So, no roads repaved this year! Hooray! Shiny and chrome!
Trump is now ahead of Hillary in the polls. Let that sink in a bit. He's so far behind Sanders, he'd need binoculars to see a horse race. That's OK, Sanders is going to lose, and now Trump is on track to be our next president.
This is fine.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:43 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
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