Mapping Decline in Regional Diversity of English Dialects
May 28, 2016 2:46 AM Subscribe
Mod note: A couple of comments deleted. Yes, this is focusing on England, for those who are worried people won't see that in the bold description when clicking the link.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:06 AM on May 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:06 AM on May 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
As an American who grew up on the Beatles & BBC tv, I'm happy to report that the Liverpool accent still appears on a scale between strong & utterly indecipherable. I was actually quite shocked at how frequently I was utterly unable to parse what I was hearing. I seriously do almost as well with Mexican Spanish as Liverpuldian.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:20 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:20 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's a little puzzling that they're chalking this up to people moving around the country over the past seventy years without a mention of the explosion of televisions in homes over the past seventy years. I would think that would have a much larger impact on the entire population (especially children learning to speak) over generations than a few new neighbors. The percentages I can find with a quick google show only 15% of British homes had tv in 1955, and 95% last year.
posted by tzikeh at 6:04 AM on May 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 6:04 AM on May 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
The cool thing is it's based off an app you can download - you listen to various samples and pick the one closest to your own accent, and then it tries to guess where you're from.
It's good they're including all of Ireland as there are some interesting extreme changes of accent over small distances, plus many city accents are changing rapidly over time. On the other hand they had no option in a couple of cases that matched the vowel sound of my (fairly mild) accent, never mind some of the stronger Cork/Kerry/midlands/Donegal etc accents. The app does allow you to submit your own recordings, so that might change over time.
Even though my accent is considered flat and hard to place by other Irish people, the app did guess within 25-30 miles of where I'm from. It's obviously picking up something distinctive, even though there are two or three big accent changes within those 30 miles (flat suburban > rural Waterford/south Tipp > urban Waterford > rural south Kilkenny).
posted by kersplunk at 6:19 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's good they're including all of Ireland as there are some interesting extreme changes of accent over small distances, plus many city accents are changing rapidly over time. On the other hand they had no option in a couple of cases that matched the vowel sound of my (fairly mild) accent, never mind some of the stronger Cork/Kerry/midlands/Donegal etc accents. The app does allow you to submit your own recordings, so that might change over time.
Even though my accent is considered flat and hard to place by other Irish people, the app did guess within 25-30 miles of where I'm from. It's obviously picking up something distinctive, even though there are two or three big accent changes within those 30 miles (flat suburban > rural Waterford/south Tipp > urban Waterford > rural south Kilkenny).
posted by kersplunk at 6:19 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
> It's good they're including all of Ireland as there are some interesting extreme changes of accent over small distance
I remember an English friend of a housemate I had back in the late '90s telling us that there were different parts of London he couldn't go into without running the risk of getting beat up because of his accent.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:21 AM on May 28, 2016
I remember an English friend of a housemate I had back in the late '90s telling us that there were different parts of London he couldn't go into without running the risk of getting beat up because of his accent.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:21 AM on May 28, 2016
I spent 18 years in Dallas, Texas and when I moved up to Canada I was told that I barely had an accent. Not sure why it didn't stick with me. Certain words have a bit of an accent but for the most part, it just didn't stick. I've now lived in Canada for 17 years. So if anything, I probably have a bit of the Canadian 'Eh'.
Oddly enough it was more the types of slang and catch phrases that I used that elicited commentary and ridicule. The very first time I used the word ya'll was met with jeers. I'll still occasionally drop it into conversation.
posted by Fizz at 6:29 AM on May 28, 2016
Oddly enough it was more the types of slang and catch phrases that I used that elicited commentary and ridicule. The very first time I used the word ya'll was met with jeers. I'll still occasionally drop it into conversation.
posted by Fizz at 6:29 AM on May 28, 2016
As an American who grew up on the Beatles & BBC tv, I'm happy to report that the Liverpool accent still appears on a scale between strong & utterly indecipherable.
Well you'll love this and this then, kidddder.
If you want to hear some amazing scouse accents, go to the museum of Liverpool and look at the "interviews with locals" video on the second floor (cound not find it on line but worht the price of admission alone). Gobsmacked, laaaaa!
posted by lalochezia at 6:29 AM on May 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's a little puzzling that they're chalking this up to people moving around the country over the past seventy years without a mention of the explosion of televisions in homes over the past seventy years. I would think that would have a much larger impact on the entire population (especially children learning to speak) over generations than a few new neighbors. The percentages I can find with a quick google show only 15% of British homes had tv in 1955, and 95% last year.
Studies have generally found a negligible effect of the media on language change. Jane Stuart-Smith's work on "Jockney" is the main exception; see article here, where an increased use of Southern features was happening faster in teenagers who watched East Enders. But it looked like this was mainly reinforcement of, e.g., contact they were already getting through friends that they actually knew in person.
posted by damayanti at 6:34 AM on May 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Studies have generally found a negligible effect of the media on language change. Jane Stuart-Smith's work on "Jockney" is the main exception; see article here, where an increased use of Southern features was happening faster in teenagers who watched East Enders. But it looked like this was mainly reinforcement of, e.g., contact they were already getting through friends that they actually knew in person.
posted by damayanti at 6:34 AM on May 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
> I've now lived in Canada for 17 years. So if anything, I probably have a bit of the Canadian 'Eh'.
Accents are crazy things. I have a friend from New Zealand who lived in Boston for several years while her husband did a PhD at Harvard (i.e. long enough to start picking up a Boston accent), and I am here to tell you the Kiwi/Boston hybrid accent was a wonder to behold.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:37 AM on May 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
Accents are crazy things. I have a friend from New Zealand who lived in Boston for several years while her husband did a PhD at Harvard (i.e. long enough to start picking up a Boston accent), and I am here to tell you the Kiwi/Boston hybrid accent was a wonder to behold.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:37 AM on May 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
The app was remarkably accurate for me. Really fascinating. Also turns out some people call a snail a dod-man or a hoddy-dod. Bizarre.
posted by knapah at 6:45 AM on May 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by knapah at 6:45 AM on May 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
the Liverpool accent still appears on a scale between strong & utterly indecipherable
20+ years ago when I was in college I (American) made a Liverpudlian friend on soc.penpals, with whom I kept up a regular correspondence via email and snail mail. The following year I went to Manchester for my junior year and the first thing I did after settling into my dorm was to go find a payphone and call my friend so we could speak for real for the first time. I was really excited when he picked up the phone, but our conversation probably lasted less than 30 seconds because I literally could not understand a thing out of his mouth. I ended up just apologizing and saying I'd write him later so we could arrange to meet up before quickly hanging up. When we met in person it was a lot better, because you get a lot more cues and clues to meaning than with a phone, but man was his speech impenetrable that first "conversation".
I eventually spent 4 more years in England and when I returned home (Mississippi at the time) I had strangers asking me if I was Australian or English or what-have-you for about 4 months before I guess that country's corrupting influence on my vowels finally wore off.
posted by Hal Mumkin at 7:25 AM on May 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
20+ years ago when I was in college I (American) made a Liverpudlian friend on soc.penpals, with whom I kept up a regular correspondence via email and snail mail. The following year I went to Manchester for my junior year and the first thing I did after settling into my dorm was to go find a payphone and call my friend so we could speak for real for the first time. I was really excited when he picked up the phone, but our conversation probably lasted less than 30 seconds because I literally could not understand a thing out of his mouth. I ended up just apologizing and saying I'd write him later so we could arrange to meet up before quickly hanging up. When we met in person it was a lot better, because you get a lot more cues and clues to meaning than with a phone, but man was his speech impenetrable that first "conversation".
I eventually spent 4 more years in England and when I returned home (Mississippi at the time) I had strangers asking me if I was Australian or English or what-have-you for about 4 months before I guess that country's corrupting influence on my vowels finally wore off.
posted by Hal Mumkin at 7:25 AM on May 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
If I were British, I'd be Welsh!
Which unfortunately means I can't pronounce the names of my suggested cities of origin.
posted by Superplin at 7:55 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Which unfortunately means I can't pronounce the names of my suggested cities of origin.
posted by Superplin at 7:55 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you want to hear some amazing scouse accents, go to the museum of Liverpool and look at the "interviews with locals" video on the second floor
I did, and I watched a couple of those! I like that they included the history of ordinary people instead of just industrial magnates/royalty.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:28 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I did, and I watched a couple of those! I like that they included the history of ordinary people instead of just industrial magnates/royalty.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:28 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I read another report about this app and their maps and one thing stood out. Supposedly, the foot-strut split is becoming much more common in the North. Which is odd because it is glaringly obvious whenever I hear it, which isn't all that often. Like the 'short A' in bath it is a strong marker of the Northern accent. I can't believe anybody uses it unless they're from the south or putting it on.
posted by Emma May Smith at 9:05 AM on May 28, 2016
posted by Emma May Smith at 9:05 AM on May 28, 2016
tbh the distinction between lancashire, scouse, and manchester accents is clearer to me than the nyc/nj/boston distinction
posted by poffin boffin at 9:21 AM on May 28, 2016
posted by poffin boffin at 9:21 AM on May 28, 2016
Greater manchester-merseyside-liverpool = 2000 square miles
NYC-NJ-BOSTON area (tristate+area, greater boston) = 22,000 square miles (this is a conservative estimate, ignoring all of the connecting land between ct and bos)
1/10 the area, 10x moar different accents 100x the win
gettiin my son!
posted by lalochezia at 9:41 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
NYC-NJ-BOSTON area (tristate+area, greater boston) = 22,000 square miles (this is a conservative estimate, ignoring all of the connecting land between ct and bos)
1/10 the area, 10x moar different accents 100x the win
gettiin my son!
posted by lalochezia at 9:41 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I lived in Birmingham for 7 years. I never did figure out a polite way to tell someone from Wolverhampton that I spoke English but not their version of English.
posted by srboisvert at 10:09 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by srboisvert at 10:09 AM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Once upon a time, a long time ago, we went across that invisible border that separates north Birmingham from West Bromwich.
Gatecrashed a party. One Saturday night.
Met a fair maiden. It didn't go well.
At one point she told me her brother ("our kid") "wuz a chen meker".
"You wot?" sed I.
"A chen meker", she sed, with some exasperation in her tone. "Yu know, he mekes chens".
The penny dropped. Chains, he makes chains. (It's the kind of thing they used to do in West Brom). After she told me she never went to Birmingham because it "were full o spivs", I wandered off in search of another beer.
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:14 AM on May 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Gatecrashed a party. One Saturday night.
Met a fair maiden. It didn't go well.
At one point she told me her brother ("our kid") "wuz a chen meker".
"You wot?" sed I.
"A chen meker", she sed, with some exasperation in her tone. "Yu know, he mekes chens".
The penny dropped. Chains, he makes chains. (It's the kind of thing they used to do in West Brom). After she told me she never went to Birmingham because it "were full o spivs", I wandered off in search of another beer.
posted by Mister Bijou at 11:14 AM on May 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
The History of English Podcast is collecting voice samples for when they get to the modern English section so they can show the development of various accents if you'd like to show yours off. Link.
posted by poxandplague at 3:29 PM on May 28, 2016
posted by poxandplague at 3:29 PM on May 28, 2016
I grew up in Newcastle upon Tyne, although I haven't lived there for 15 years. The only word I'm aware of where I go to the Geordie word and not the standard english is Spelk - so I found the map for that (small pieces of wood under the skin) very interesting.
The other thing is that people from the rest of the British Isles find the way I say "book" hilarious, but I have no idea why. Sounds normal to me!
posted by sarahdal at 2:17 AM on May 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
The other thing is that people from the rest of the British Isles find the way I say "book" hilarious, but I have no idea why. Sounds normal to me!
posted by sarahdal at 2:17 AM on May 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just had a trip that took me back and forth across Britain and I was surprised by the general lack of regional diversity that I had been expecting. Notably, I missed Sunderland and Newcastle-upon-Tyne (waved at their signs as I went by them). There were a couple times I had a little trouble understanding someone, but I was suffering from a head congestion so couldn't really hear well, either.
One thing that wasn't addressed in the article, did they take into a count the likely age of people who would be technologically savvy or inclined to download a phone app in the first place? Are the results skewed a smidge by generational differences than just simply mobility of the population?
posted by Atreides at 7:10 AM on May 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
One thing that wasn't addressed in the article, did they take into a count the likely age of people who would be technologically savvy or inclined to download a phone app in the first place? Are the results skewed a smidge by generational differences than just simply mobility of the population?
posted by Atreides at 7:10 AM on May 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
On the Liverpool theme, I always smile when I hear the recently sacked manager Roberto Martinez. His own (very) peculiar mix of Scouse and Spanish is a wonder.
posted by Myeral at 5:41 AM on May 31, 2016
posted by Myeral at 5:41 AM on May 31, 2016
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