“They were two close friends, sitting alone together.”
May 31, 2016 8:49 AM Subscribe
oh no my heart is warmed
posted by poffin boffin at 9:06 AM on May 31, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:06 AM on May 31, 2016 [10 favorites]
Lobel’s daughter Adrianne Lobel, a painter and set designer who lives in Manhattan, told me that her father’s sense of humor was influenced by popular TV series—his favorites were “Bewitched” and “The Carol Burnett Show”
Not surprised. Obviously, Burnett was a masterful sketch comedy show, and Bewitched, well, I have long argued the show is a complicated metaphor for Jewish assimilation.
posted by maxsparber at 9:11 AM on May 31, 2016 [8 favorites]
Not surprised. Obviously, Burnett was a masterful sketch comedy show, and Bewitched, well, I have long argued the show is a complicated metaphor for Jewish assimilation.
posted by maxsparber at 9:11 AM on May 31, 2016 [8 favorites]
This makes a lot of sense.
It was touched upon a little bit in the essay, but one of the wonderful things about Lobel's Frog and Toad stories is they often don't have an overt moral lesson. When you read a contemporary children's book, the narrative may explicitly explain a lesson the characters have learned. Be nice to each other. Obey your parents. That kind of thing. But moral lessons in Frog and Toad stories are more ambiguous, and in them the act of being a good friend, or simply being kind to each other becomes its own reward. It's a lovely, almost Zen perspective.
posted by zarq at 9:27 AM on May 31, 2016 [27 favorites]
It was touched upon a little bit in the essay, but one of the wonderful things about Lobel's Frog and Toad stories is they often don't have an overt moral lesson. When you read a contemporary children's book, the narrative may explicitly explain a lesson the characters have learned. Be nice to each other. Obey your parents. That kind of thing. But moral lessons in Frog and Toad stories are more ambiguous, and in them the act of being a good friend, or simply being kind to each other becomes its own reward. It's a lovely, almost Zen perspective.
posted by zarq at 9:27 AM on May 31, 2016 [27 favorites]
How in the world did I not know that Arnold Lobel passed away in 1987? That makes me so sad. The Frog and Toad stories are so very sweet. And although I had started to write that the subtext discussed in the article went over my head as a kid, I'm not sure that's an accurate statement. Frog and Toad were one of the earliest "grown up" relationship models I can remember being introduced to, and they were clearly the best of friends and it was perfectly normal for them to spend so much time simply enjoying each other's company.
posted by usonian at 9:30 AM on May 31, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by usonian at 9:30 AM on May 31, 2016 [6 favorites]
Also: Gregory Griggs and Other Nursery Rhyme People was another Lobel favorite in our house.
posted by usonian at 9:32 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by usonian at 9:32 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
I loved his work so damn much as a kid - never occurred to me that (as the daughter points out) the Frog and Toad series were the only ones that feature a relationship. "Owl at Home," another personal fave, is in retrospect mostly about a miserable loner who is terrified of relationships, although he does finally decide the moon just wants to be friends and isn't actually stalking him.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:34 AM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 9:34 AM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
these were among my books as a child. I do miss reading them.
posted by rebent at 9:35 AM on May 31, 2016
posted by rebent at 9:35 AM on May 31, 2016
Related, I love this Yuletide fic that transforms the gay subtext from Frog and Toad into text while still keeping the sweetness and plain language of the originals.
Frog cleared his throat. "Toad," he said. "I have started to see you in a new light."
posted by ActionPopulated at 9:42 AM on May 31, 2016 [12 favorites]
Frog cleared his throat. "Toad," he said. "I have started to see you in a new light."
posted by ActionPopulated at 9:42 AM on May 31, 2016 [12 favorites]
Of all the books I read as a kid, these stayed with me the most, and they're the ones I give to my friends' kids. I was always more of a Toad than a Frog, but I have a lot of Frog friends (who are also my neighbors) and honestly these books gave me a roadmap to adult life other than "settling down and having kids" that isn't in a lot of other kids books.
posted by sallybrown at 9:53 AM on May 31, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:53 AM on May 31, 2016 [9 favorites]
Lobel was so, so good and Frog and Toad are true masterworks. They are as good as any great fiction and as any great illustration.
I had no idea that Lobel was gay or that he died of AIDS. This article made me tear up.
posted by latkes at 9:55 AM on May 31, 2016 [6 favorites]
I had no idea that Lobel was gay or that he died of AIDS. This article made me tear up.
posted by latkes at 9:55 AM on May 31, 2016 [6 favorites]
I just started reading these to my daughter last night and was so happy to be enjoying them again and sharing them with her. Thank you so much for this!
posted by Bacon Bit at 9:59 AM on May 31, 2016
posted by Bacon Bit at 9:59 AM on May 31, 2016
Yeah, this article also made me think of Ernie and Bert growing old together and now I'm a little verklempt.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:30 AM on May 31, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:30 AM on May 31, 2016 [11 favorites]
Frog and Toad are More Than Friends
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:31 AM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:31 AM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was born just a bit too early, and in slightly the wrong household, to have had these as a child. I am going to enjoy the hell out of giving them to my friends' children.
posted by allthinky at 10:37 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by allthinky at 10:37 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have nothing to add to this except the wonderful stop motion versions of Frog and Toad that I remember from childhood. (I also remember a behind the scenes video that ended with James Earl Jones with a tiny clay version of himself that he was going to animate so he could take a break from the show, but I cannot find that online.)
posted by Hactar at 11:05 AM on May 31, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Hactar at 11:05 AM on May 31, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's a lovely, almost Zen perspective
The first story described in the FPP, “The Surprise,” just knocks me out every time I read it. (I’ve long thought it feels like a Buddhist teaching; looking it up again just now, I found a Buddhist reading of it at Lion’s Roar.)
Something about these books captures for me growing up in the early ‘70s. It’s partly the green-and-brown palette (and the bell bottoms F&T wear!)—but more the earnest seriousness with which they address kids. They acknowledge—with humor but not with sugarcoating—that the world can be dark and weird and surprising. I didn't know Lobel, but I like to think of him as one of the good grownups at my parents’ parties--one of the recently tidied-up hippies who were idealistic enough (or high enough) to acknowledge I was a kid but still speak to me interestedly and seriously. His books strike me as less pat & less patronizing than most of the newer books I read to my kid now.
posted by miles per flower at 11:09 AM on May 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
The first story described in the FPP, “The Surprise,” just knocks me out every time I read it. (I’ve long thought it feels like a Buddhist teaching; looking it up again just now, I found a Buddhist reading of it at Lion’s Roar.)
Something about these books captures for me growing up in the early ‘70s. It’s partly the green-and-brown palette (and the bell bottoms F&T wear!)—but more the earnest seriousness with which they address kids. They acknowledge—with humor but not with sugarcoating—that the world can be dark and weird and surprising. I didn't know Lobel, but I like to think of him as one of the good grownups at my parents’ parties--one of the recently tidied-up hippies who were idealistic enough (or high enough) to acknowledge I was a kid but still speak to me interestedly and seriously. His books strike me as less pat & less patronizing than most of the newer books I read to my kid now.
posted by miles per flower at 11:09 AM on May 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
that whole drama that’s kind of the precursor to the hell of romance later in life—who is best friends with whom and who likes who when, and this person doesn’t like me now—... Frog and Toad go through these dramas every dayI love this so much about F&T. Their relationship feels so genuine, and doesn't flinch from ugly feelings, yet the stories have a lightness and are always brought to a safe and satisfying end. Frog and Toad are still my models for healthy, honest friendship. WWF&TD?
posted by apparently at 11:09 AM on May 31, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's so hard to pick a favorite Frog and Toad story! They're all so great!
posted by newdaddy at 11:14 AM on May 31, 2016
posted by newdaddy at 11:14 AM on May 31, 2016
I read a lot of books to my kids as they were growing up, but I don't think I enjoyed anything more than reading the Frog and Toad stories. They are so gentle.
posted by straight at 11:14 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 11:14 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
apparently: I love this so much about F&T. Their relationship feels so genuine, and doesn't flinch from ugly feelings, yet the stories have a lightness and are always brought to a safe and satisfying end. Frog and Toad are still my models for healthy, honest friendship. WWF&TD?
Very few problems cannot be overcome by putting things in a box, tying them with string, and placing them on a high shelf.
Protip: After being compelled to read Cookies at bedtime at least a thousand times, the story gets ten times better if you mentally find-and-replace "cookies" with "dicks".
posted by dr_dank at 11:40 AM on May 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
Very few problems cannot be overcome by putting things in a box, tying them with string, and placing them on a high shelf.
Protip: After being compelled to read Cookies at bedtime at least a thousand times, the story gets ten times better if you mentally find-and-replace "cookies" with "dicks".
posted by dr_dank at 11:40 AM on May 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am eternally grateful of jessamyn for introducing me to Frog and Toad in order to quell a pony request. I bought the collection when my son was a toddler and they are now our favourite stories, read nightly.
posted by furtive at 11:56 AM on May 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by furtive at 11:56 AM on May 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
Grasshopper on the Road is another great Lobel book, but Frog and Toad were so important to me as a child and a father that they have more resonance than any scripture.
posted by rikschell at 1:07 PM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rikschell at 1:07 PM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Came here to recommend Lobel's 'The Great Blueness and other Predicaments'.
posted by jonathanbell at 1:17 PM on May 31, 2016
posted by jonathanbell at 1:17 PM on May 31, 2016
And here I mistook their relationship for a strictly professional arrangement.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:22 PM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:22 PM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
I hadn't experienced real snowy winter weather before grad school, and I hadn't encountered F&T until even later, when I started reading them to my kids. My first experience with sledding was, in retrospect, straight out of F&T, where Toad is proud of how well he and Frog are managing the sled until he finds out that Frog has fallen off a while ago...
The stories are also utterly wonderful when acted out by 4 year olds and their stuffed toys. If you haven't seen them performed that way, I recommend it!
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:23 PM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
The stories are also utterly wonderful when acted out by 4 year olds and their stuffed toys. If you haven't seen them performed that way, I recommend it!
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:23 PM on May 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
(Wait, The Great Blueness is also an Arnold Lobel book? I didn't know that!)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:24 PM on May 31, 2016
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:24 PM on May 31, 2016
I never heard of these until I saw a copy of Sapo y Sepo in Venezuela.
posted by MtDewd at 1:36 PM on May 31, 2016
posted by MtDewd at 1:36 PM on May 31, 2016
(I'm reeling from the news about Frog and Toad in San Francisco. Nooooooooo! Apologies for the derail.) I loved reading these books to my daughter when she was young. I just picked up a couple for my grandson, not yet 2, whom I will be visiting shortly. These are wonderful books; knowing the back story makes me an even bigger fan.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:32 PM on May 31, 2016
posted by Bella Donna at 3:32 PM on May 31, 2016
My sister and I grew up with Frog & Toad as children. She's a Hebrew school teacher, and I was lucky enough to find copies of all the books translated into Hebrew for her fortieth birthday.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:51 AM on June 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ghidorah at 5:51 AM on June 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I love Frog and Toad, and Lobel's other books (Owl at Home is my favorite!) but just because Lobel was gay doesn't mean Frog and Toad has gay subtext. They are a frog and a toad. They don't appear to have any romantic or sexual feelings toward each other or anybody else. It's not uncommon to see depictions of close, caring friendships in children's books.
posted by chickenmagazine at 11:02 AM on June 1, 2016
posted by chickenmagazine at 11:02 AM on June 1, 2016
to quote from the article :
posted by nadawi at 1:07 PM on June 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
“I think ‘Frog and Toad’ really was the beginning of him coming out,” Adrianne [his daughter] told me. Lobel never publicly discussed a connection between the series and his sexuality, but he did comment on the ways in which personal material made its way into his stories. In a 1977 interview with the children’s-book journal The Lion and the Unicorn, he said:maybe none of that subtext is there, but i don't think there's anything wrong with considering how lobel might have been struggling with his identity as the book was being created and how that might have ended up in the pages.
You know, if an adult has an unhappy love affair, he writes about it. He exorcises it out of himself, perhaps, by writing a novel about it. Well, if I have an unhappy love affair, I have to somehow use all that pain and suffering but turn it into a work for children.
posted by nadawi at 1:07 PM on June 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
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