— the punctuation equivalent of stagehands

June 14, 2016 7:18 PM

Period. Full Stop. Point. Whatever It’s Called, It’s Going Out of Style by Dan Bilefsky [The New York Times] The period — the full-stop signal we all learn as children, whose use stretches back at least to the Middle Ages — is gradually being felled in the barrage of instant messaging that has become synonymous with the digital age So says David Crystal, who has written more than 100 books on language and is a former master of original pronunciation at Shakespeare’s Globe theater in London — a man who understands the power of tradition in language The conspicuous omission of the period in text messages and in instant messaging on social media, he says, is a product of the punctuation-free staccato sentences favored by millennials — and increasingly their elders — a trend fueled by the freewheeling style of Facebook, WhatsApp and Twitter
posted by Fizz (171 comments total)

what
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:21 PM on June 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

.
posted by Otherwise at 7:22 PM on June 14, 2016 [74 favorites]

And death shall have no dominion.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:23 PM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

No. I say no until my dying breath. I will also hold fast to two spaces after each period, even if html strips them out.
posted by humanfont at 7:24 PM on June 14, 2016 [42 favorites]

Old man shouts at the Cloud
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:24 PM on June 14, 2016 [55 favorites]

I have no problem with putting a period per se, but if I put a period on the end of my text messages everyone is going to think I'm mad at them, so
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 7:27 PM on June 14, 2016 [25 favorites]

I still take pains to type virtually everything that isn't an emoji in complete, grammatically (to the best of my ability) correct sentences, which is probably the most obvious non-visual signifier that I'm old. I am fine with this.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:28 PM on June 14, 2016 [77 favorites]

Riddley Walker hav to say
picters on the wind
heddid my way
thas my tel
an now yors as wel
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:28 PM on June 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

i use it to register my affected sense of ironic millenial detachment. don't @ me
posted by naju at 7:30 PM on June 14, 2016 [20 favorites]

Note that this doesn't translate to every format. Even within something like Twitter, if you're tweeting multiple sentences, you'll still punctuate the first sentence; you just omit the final period. Source: a millenial
posted by jsnlxndrlv at 7:31 PM on June 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

OK, we get it, NYT. You are capable of writing a bullshit trend piece about anything. No need to weaponize it.
posted by phooky at 7:33 PM on June 14, 2016 [62 favorites]

No. No, no, no, no, no. Periods --- also commas. colons and semicolons, hyphens, brackets, apostrophes and quotation marks and all the rest of the punctuation crew --- will not die, at least as long as we geezers are still more-or-less compos mentos and available to fight for them.

After we geezers are gone, of course, y'all can be as confusing as you want. But not yet!
posted by easily confused at 7:36 PM on June 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

So, my mom always uses a period on Google Hangouts or in texts. Our conversations look like this:

Me: can you watch [my son] tomorrow morning?
Mom: Yes.

If it was my contemporary, that "." would mean "I'll do it but I don't want to." With my mom, I know it's just a period... but it really does look very angry.
posted by gatorae at 7:36 PM on June 14, 2016 [41 favorites]

The New York Times: Where every sentence is a paragraph.
posted by I-baLL at 7:39 PM on June 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

"DON'T TAKE OUR PERIODS" is sure going to be a confusing bumper sticker.
posted by ArmandoAkimbo at 7:40 PM on June 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

at least as long as we geezers are still more-or-less compos mentos and available to fight for them.

In other news, kids today and their te-le-graphs and their Morse code. People don't use grammar anymore. It costs too much money.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:42 PM on June 14, 2016 [5 favorites]

No. No, no, no, no, no. Periods --- also commas. colons and semicolons, hyphens, brackets, apostrophes and quotation marks and all the rest of the punctuation crew --- will not die, at least as long as we geezers are still more-or-less compos mentos and available to fight for them.

Apparently the emdash already has.
posted by indubitable at 7:42 PM on June 14, 2016 [33 favorites]

This is like those trendpieces about "Millennials won't be able to spell because lol txt speak!!" Newsflash: people are capable of writing differently in different contexts. We know what a fucking period is. jesus christ you assholes go sit on a duck

emdash
tell me how to make an emdash with my keyboard man it ain't there
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 7:44 PM on June 14, 2016 [52 favorites]

Whoops, maybe not, this post is lousy with 'em.
posted by indubitable at 7:45 PM on June 14, 2016

ampersand mdash semicolon
posted by infinitewindow at 7:46 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Wow. I must come across as such a grumpy old git in text messages.

*does the grumpy old git dance*

Yay :)

*frowns*
posted by motty at 7:46 PM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

the formatting of the nyt article is correct

each unperioded sentence goes on its own line or in its own paragraph

however the formatting of this post is INCORRECT AND I AM ANGERED
posted by poffin boffin at 7:46 PM on June 14, 2016 [18 favorites]

good day sir
posted by poffin boffin at 7:46 PM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

—
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:46 PM on June 14, 2016

Oh my god, I'm not even old and I had no idea. I wonder if all my friends think I'm always angry at them, or if they think it's an amusing quirk of mine, or if they don't know about this either?
posted by lollusc at 7:49 PM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

*came for the ferocious waving of canes, and was not disappointed*
posted by frumiousb at 7:50 PM on June 14, 2016 [30 favorites]

— 'em.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 7:51 PM on June 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

i can't really hate on them for spamming the em dashes as i'm guilty of overusing semicolons myself, but don't most young people already eschew the question mark /bornin88
posted by ceterum at 7:56 PM on June 14, 2016

Washington Post on Medium (huh?) on the same subject.

Don't our leading newspapers have anything better to write about? Oh.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:57 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

If it was my contemporary, that "." would mean "I'll do it but I don't want to." With my mom, I know it's just a period... but it really does look very angry.

Oh wow. At my last job, the one person who was always prickly and unpleasant to deal with did exactly this over the internal chat system, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was until just now.
posted by indubitable at 7:58 PM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

I actually went and looked at my texts, and I notice that I use correct punctuation for any long or complex sentence, right down to the period, but for shorter sentences I too leave it off. Huh.

Still, though, in any more formal setting, an unpunctuated sentence looks barbarous to me. And honestly, the lack of punctuation deprives me of the pleasure of reading the sentence because it omits the customary cues for pacing and emphasis. In a short text message, there really isn't that much sentence-level pleasure to be gained, but in any other format I do like a nicely paced sentence.
posted by Frowner at 8:07 PM on June 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

tell me how to make an emdash with my keyboard man it ain't there

Not sure on Linux or Windows, but on macOS it's Option-Shift-dash. Also endash is Option-dash.
posted by smammy at 8:08 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

and on iOS just hold down the hyphen
posted by Lorin at 8:10 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rather fond of the ellipsis myself...
posted by jim in austin at 8:11 PM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

At work, I still perform dictations where I speak into a phone dialed in to a transcription line. Someone listens to it, then transcribes. It's like magic.

What I say includes punctuation. I'm not sure it has to, but it makes for accurate transcriptions.

The worst, though, is when I find myself saying punctuation in casual conversation.

"Hey yeah I'd like colon paragraph number a lemon paragraph number a kumquat paragraph number five double A batteries period paragraph end dictation thanks"
posted by herrdoktor at 8:11 PM on June 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

At the same time, he said he found that British teenagers were increasingly eschewing emoticons and abbreviations such as “LOL” (laughing out loud) or “ROTF” (rolling on the floor) in text messages because they had been adopted by their parents

WE INVENTED THEM. At least, those of them that hadn't been invented more than a century ago.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:12 PM on June 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

so i'mma remember the emdash thing but man it seems like hella work when i could just type two regular dashes like "--"

So funny story, most people I talk to will read a sentence like that, and find it to be properly paced and just fine reading. They can tell where the commas would go and just mentally insert them. Later on, they might even remember commas being there when they actually weren't. Internet linguistics is fun!!
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:14 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Saying "delete your account" with a full stop just looks like you care too much you know?
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:19 PM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]

the thing about being grammatically correct in text messages is that as much as it appeals to those of us who've spent a lifetime writing, there is an entire new realm of expression and metaphor that is encompassed within how you present via text that not many of those of us who did not grow up with smartphones comprehend.

lack of capitalization is not so much lazy, per se - it's more the internet/chat equivalent of business casual. it indicates you're comfortable enough and friendly enough with your audience to not be Corporate Formal.

and yeah the lack of final periods is a mood indicator - adding one in chat/text usually indicates ire. the young converse in metaphor, and a lot of it is astonishingly subtle.
posted by lonefrontranger at 8:20 PM on June 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

and on iOS just hold down the hyphen

Now I'm not just going to be the guy who punctuates his texts, but I'm going to be That Guy who uses hyphens and en and em dashes appropriately in texts.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:31 PM on June 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

The thing is is that period-optional writing is strictly more expressive than standard written English. I can see how this would be difficult to accept for those whose sense of self-worth is still founded on the hypothetical approval of their second grade teacher, though
posted by invitapriore at 8:38 PM on June 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

So funny story, most people I talk to will read a sentence like that, and find it to be properly paced and just fine reading. They can tell where the commas would go and just mentally insert them

It's not that people can't pace an unpunctuated sentence, it's that there's actual pleasure (for me at least) in reading a sentence that uses punctuation for pace and emphasis. It's like the sentence does a little dance. It's a poetic quality.

Like, when I read this sentence to myself, the punctuation cues me to read it one way:

"I looked across the room - the cat was gazing seriously at me, paw raised in a tiny salute"

but if it's unpunctuated it feels different.

"I looked across the room and the cat was staring at me paw raised in a tiny salute".

Like, the tone is different and the feel is different because nothing arrests the eye as it progresses along the line. I might, in fact, want to write a sentence where nothing arrests the eye because I want that rushing effect specifically. (I wonder if some of the standard pacing of internet writing derives from punctuation habits instead of the other way around - an awful lot of tumblr-ism is very much "two Very Serious sentences. Paragraph break. One short declarative sentence that starts with 'and'".)

There's all kinds of effects you can attain with and without punctuation. (I myself am addicted to italics because of reading too much Samuel Delany.) I just like punctuation, what can I say.

I plan to stick to my habits. For the next ten years or so I will be a boring, embarrassing fuddy-duddy, but IME being old-fashioned pays off by your mid-fifties in bohemian circles and people start to think of you as unique, principled, etc.
posted by Frowner at 8:42 PM on June 14, 2016 [25 favorites]

Soon the old people who don't get why ALL CAPS = YELLING will die off and be replaced by a new generation of old people who don't get why . = angry.

/hums "Circle of Life."
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:43 PM on June 14, 2016 [21 favorites]

To me this seems analogous to saying that non-contracted verbs (will not, is not, etc) are going out of style because everyone uses contractions when they're talking to their friends. Text messaging is the equivalent of an informal, in-person chat with a peer. There are different conventions in these mediums that don't translate to more formal writing. Just like I use different phrasing in a job interview compared to when I'm hanging out with my friends.

Not that I expect a NYT trend piece to have any bearing on reality.*

*Or you could say full sentences are going out of style because I sometimes use sentence fragments in non-academic writing.
posted by litera scripta manet at 8:48 PM on June 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

The other thing is, while on the one hand one does not wish to totally ignore cultural changes, on the other it gets sort of pathetic and depressing to spend your entire adult life chasing little trends out of fear that you won't seem with it enough. At some point I feel like an adult needs to own that they're a person of a particular generation and set of experiences, formed by their past. I've got habits and ideas and ways of being that come from how I grew up and when I grew up - it's sort of my terroir, if you will. I like how I text, my friends don't seem to misread me and I am adroit enough to adhere to changing professional norms when I text for work.
posted by Frowner at 8:50 PM on June 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

Soon the old people who don't get why ALL CAPS = YELLING will die off and be replaced by a new generation of old people who don't get why . = angry.

When my mother was first learning to text, she wrote exclusively in all caps, and it drove me crazy. (She claims that she did it so she didn't have to worry about proper capitalization since she still wasn't very comfortable with texting; this was on a flip phone that used T9 or whatever.)

Even now she sometimes uses all caps to get my attention for something important. She just doesn't seem to understand that it's like picking up the phone and yelling at me, no matter how many times I've tried to explain it.

Actually, now that I think about it, she often does the single word followed by a period thing. Like:

Okay.

Thanks.

That doesn't really bother me in the same way all caps does, though. She is an English professor, so I guess that kind of comes with the territory to a certain extent.
posted by litera scripta manet at 8:54 PM on June 14, 2016

lack of capitalization is not so much lazy, per se

i dunno, man, have you met me? my l/c can be seen or said as l/z
posted by mwhybark at 8:55 PM on June 14, 2016

No. Just, no.
posted by drklahn at 9:02 PM on June 14, 2016

Oh, prescriptivist panic. When will you learn that new and different ways of writing and speaking != decreasing intelligence/increasing laziness

Turn and face the strange ch ch changes! Don't tell them to grow up and out of it
posted by a strong female character at 9:11 PM on June 14, 2016 [15 favorites]

If I'm at work it goes something like this in chat:

Boss: hey can you call me?
Me: sure thing
Boss: It's about the RFP
Me: cool, I'll call you in 3 mins

Emails? Now those, those are written in damn nigh oxford english perfection. But chat and text and whatnot, I pay no mind to little dots.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:14 PM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

David Crystal writes in his blog:

As John Humphreys once said, in the Spectator, the job of a journalist is to simplify and exaggerate. And that's what happened. My point got reported on the front page of the Telegraph - front page, no less - and the online site had the headline 'Full stop falling out of fashion thanks to instant messaging'. Note the generalization. Whereas I was saying that the full-stop was changing in instant messaging (and the like), the paper reports it as changing everywhere because of instant messaging.

...When it got to the New York Times - the front page again - the headline read 'A Full Stop for Periods?' and the opening paragraph made a summary that then spread all over the globe: 'One of the oldest forms of punctuation may be dying'. And the writer went on:

The period ... is gradually being felled in the barrange of instant messaging that has become synonymous with the digital age

He used no full-stop at the end of his paragraph, or elsewhere in the article. It was a clever trope, but it went well beyond what I was saying, for there is no evidence at all that the full-stop is being less used in conventional writing, such as in newspaper articles.

Emphases mine. There's more at the link.

('ware journalism about linguistics: most journalists know as much about linguistics as they do about quantum mechanics.)
posted by wintersweet at 9:14 PM on June 14, 2016 [14 favorites]

Fine.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:16 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

the thing is, in the context of text messages/chat/IM each exchange is neatly enclosed in its own visual bubble. you don't actually need a period to end a sentence in that context because the chat GUI has already done it for you with the bubble enclosure.

so in that context that period is literally superfluous, thus including it, by inference, carries meaning.

Frowner none of the very intelligent young folks I regularly exchange conversation with use run-on sentences like that; in fact that actually tends to be looked down on. it's a bit of a class signifier tbh, or indicates you maybe talking to someone very young (tweenage).

to be very clear: we are not talking about formal writing here. this is the internet analog of casual slang and Millenials are genuinely good at codeswitching.

I'm also an enthusiastic fan of the current use of a single ellipsis to indicate anything from shock to contempt, disbelief, indecision or mere speechlessness, depending on context.

language is fun, and I love watching it evolve throughout the 47 years I've been around to witness it!
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:19 PM on June 14, 2016 [12 favorites]

Reading millennial assignment of meaning to punctuation markers is crazy. Haven't you guys ever heard of BOLD or ITALICS or S P A C E D O U T? Where is the digital equivalent of the Super Buffet early bird specials so that you know I'm old enough to not get their dialect?
posted by Nanukthedog at 9:28 PM on June 14, 2016

archy was ahead of his time i guess

as a representative
of the insect world
i have often wondered
on what man bases his claims
to superiority
everything he knows he has had
to learn whereas we insects are born
knowing everything we need to know
a louse i
used to know
told me that
millionaires and
bums tasted
about alike
to him
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:31 PM on June 14, 2016 [17 favorites]

The English language is evolving. It's something that all living languages do. The only languages where the rules stay the same for all time are dead languages. It always has happened and it always will. Deal with it, prescriptivists.

If you have a new means of communication, it's obvious that language is going to evolve in ways influenced by it. A language that didn't do that would become less and less useful.

Of course, bemoaning the ways of "kids these days" is something that's been going on for a long time, too...
posted by Anne Neville at 9:35 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

Use or disuse of the sentence-final period is indeed a codeswitching mechanism.

So period-omission actually relies on shared assumptions around period use in standard written English and subverts or plays with the convention in order to mark a switch to a jocular, tongue-in-cheek or informal tone.

If you think about it, this actually requires a fairly sophisticated level of literacy. It's using punctuation in a novel way, to mark register.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:36 PM on June 14, 2016 [16 favorites]

The thing is is that period-optional writing is strictly more expressive than standard written English. I can see how this would be difficult to accept for those whose sense of self-worth is still founded on the hypothetical approval of their second grade teacher, though

Yes. Also, I'm sure if grammar were easier to execute properly, we would use it more frequently. Let's not kid ourselves: no one would bother trying for 100% correct spelling if our phones weren't doing all the heavy lifting for us. The amount of effort required to execute a "correct" text message sends one of many negative signals, and also puts up a wall of formality that is not conducive to effective communication in text form. You're texting them (rather than emailing, letter-writing, etc) because you want to hear their off-the-cuff remarks, complete with humor that doesn't have a place in formal communication. Getting all proper with your grammar is a sure way to close that avenue off (sometimes intentionally, if you are being messaged by someone you don't wish to engage with).
posted by mantecol at 9:39 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Let's not kid ourselves: no one would bother trying for 100% correct spelling if our phones weren't doing all the heavy lifting for us

sez u.*

*I disagree with your premise.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:45 PM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]

text/chat messaging evolves these metaphorical signifiers for a very explicit and useful reason: it's a social platform and in that context, lacking the visual cues of a face to face interaction, nuanced codifiers are really important.

if you don't interact with a lot of people via IM/slack/chat/text, then this entire discussion is probably academic.
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:45 PM on June 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

another day, another demonstration that Roast Beef Kazenzakis of Achewood was a good 15 years ahead of his time
posted by jsnlxndrlv at 9:54 PM on June 14, 2016 [9 favorites]

Huh, I just checked my texts and I only omitted the period very occasionally, maybe in a tenth or so of the sentences. (Except for single-word responses.)

Also: beside texts with my husband and with my team lead at work, I have only sent six texts in the last six weeks.

where do I go to turn in my millenial card
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 PM on June 14, 2016

and yeah the lack of final periods is a mood indicator - adding one in chat/text usually indicates ire. the young converse in metaphor, and a lot of it is astonishingly subtle language.

fixed that for you
posted by Sebmojo at 10:00 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am altering the deal, pray I do not alter it further

I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.

Sad devotion to ancient grammatical rules? I'd say the full stop is necessary if only to leave an old man time enough to wheeze
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:05 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

Haven't you guys ever heard of BOLD or ITALICS or S P A C E D O U T?

Dude why are you so angry we're having a civil conversation
posted by naju at 10:16 PM on June 14, 2016 [11 favorites]

.
posted by mazola at 10:26 PM on June 14, 2016

See also Stone-hearted ice witch forgoes exclamation point
An article which spoke to me personally

I too omit periods in casual communication because I think it matches the run on sentence style that people really talk in. The intent of the message should match the delivery.
posted by bleep at 10:37 PM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

There are languages which are closely associated with a single nation, and usually the government of that nation has a ministry responsible for that language which can, when necessary, implement changes to the language, especially spelling reforms.

The nation of Japan pretty much owns the Japanese language, and 150 years ago they added a character to hiragana: ん (pronounced "n" or sometimes "m")

I heard once that the Dutch language had three or four spelling reforms in the 20th Century.

English is long overdue for a spelling reform but no one controls the language. If it came to a vote, the largest number of English speakers live in India, but that nation makes no pretensions to controlling the English language.

The last time there was any attempt at a spelling reform was in the middle of the 19th Century when American dictionary authors tried to clean up some of the worst of the language (like changing "plough" into "plow", and "colour" into "color").

Some people have thought that technology would do it. Radio and Television, for instance, would eradicate regional accents and dialects -- but it didn't happen.

However, Cell Phone messaging has actually started doing it, for practical reasons, and changes being implemented by users of cell phone messaging (and Twitter) have begun filtering out into the rest of the language proper.

For instance, "through" was just as bad as "plough" but Webster didn't fix it. However, modern cell phone users have changed it to "thru", which really makes more sense as a spelling.

(But being an old fart and stuck in my ways, I still stick to the traditional horrible spelling, in part because I don't use phone messaging or Twitter. My apologies for standing in the way of progress.)
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:14 PM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Huh. I text/message with relatively few people these days, and I always use a period and regular grammar when texting. It never occurred to me that people might somehow think using basic punctuation was a sign of something, rather than just.... how you are supposed to write.

At work I suppose I use IM more (by force/convention rather than choice) and definitely use periods and such there too.

no one would bother trying for 100% correct spelling if our phones weren't doing all the heavy lifting for us

This is definitely not true (as I remember from worrying about spelling even way back in the T9 days). However, I am willing to accept I might be a member of a small minority. :)

(And on the other end of all this, I spent so much of my youth on BBS chats and Usenet/IRC that I still use ASCII "emoji" like that rather than real emoji. Except on LINE which is full of cute stickers).
posted by thefoxgod at 11:18 PM on June 14, 2016

I speak mostly in text. Being verbal doesn't suit me quite as well for a variety of reasons. As such I'm glad there is a wealth of various codifiers based around prescription/non-prescription of grammar because I'd lose half my communicative possibilities if wrong grammar was out of the question.
posted by solarion at 12:53 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

So how do you pronounce lol anyway
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:56 AM on June 15, 2016

Any written form off the page and the line begs for change. Graffiti is a wonderful monster. Another poster mentioned registers and all younger people play with those conventions because those conventions are shoved down our (prior) throats...

I've watched for the death/change of full stops since I first saw advertising agencies use them for phrases and fragments in suspended, inky space. Off a line...they're a lie.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 1:21 AM on June 15, 2016

> "I am altering the deal, pray I do not alter it further"

LOL i am ur father search ur feelings u no it 2b tru
posted by kyrademon at 1:46 AM on June 15, 2016 [5 favorites]

Full stops used to be routinely used in signage and also book titles---even on the spines. That went away in the early 20th century.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 1:51 AM on June 15, 2016

I. AM. A. HAPPY. BUNNY. LOL.
posted by Segundus at 2:38 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Quick request:

Please do not use the phrase "code switching" in this context.

I wrote a practice thesis on the Harlem Renaissance and have read a lot of WEB DuBois. The phrase "code switching" has a very specific meaning among DuBois scholars, as it refers to the experiences of POCs in predominantly White spaces as opposed to spaces where they spend time with people from their background. Seeing the phrase "code switching" in this context is close to cultural appropriation.

Words and phrases have meaning. Context matters.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:28 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Metafilter: addicted to italics because of reading too much Samuel Delany.
posted by sammyo at 3:32 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I didn't know the Shibe was posting in this thread.

In all seriousness, most of the sources I have for this are from dead-tree resources. I'll see what I can find.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:49 AM on June 15, 2016

smammy: "tell me how to make an emdash with my keyboard man it ain't there

Not sure on Linux or Windows, but on macOS it's Option-Shift-dash. Also endash is Option-dash."

on windows it's ALT 0151 —
posted by Red Loop at 3:54 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think 'code switching' has a broader use in linguistics than that....words do mean things, but you don't just get to stipulate what they mean
posted by thelonius at 4:01 AM on June 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

Then what's the point of words?
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:18 AM on June 15, 2016

The phrase "code switching" has a very specific meaning among DuBois scholars

Ok, but it's not unique to DuBois scholarship is it?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:44 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Code switching is a linguistics term for switching between two languages. While it is used in discussions of AAVE, it is not specific to that and is used in reference to any bilingual code switching, and from extension from that has become a term for any kind of switching between performance of two or more cultures. It is not a term limited to DuBois scholars, and I find it kind of offensive to use feeble authority to try to claim it so.
posted by tavella at 4:53 AM on June 15, 2016 [16 favorites]

I am altering the deal, pray I do not alter it further

Strangely, the comma splice bothers me more than the lack of a period. Long live the semicolon!
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:55 AM on June 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

I thought this was going to be about how we were finally seeing an end to the annoying habit of writing "Full stop." at the end of something that the writer really wants to emphasize.
posted by Ralston McTodd at 5:05 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

yup "code-switching" is a pretty common linguistic term

also "I have read a lot of WEB DuBois" is now my favorite appeal to authority ever and I will be stealing that from you kthxbye
posted by aspersioncast at 5:09 AM on June 15, 2016 [9 favorites]

As someone who has studied DuBois, I find using the phrase "code-switching" over the use of punctuation in text messages insulting. I have my own skepticism towards the present state of sociolinguistics, but discussing those here would be a massive derail.

Be aware of the connotations of the words you use. That's all I ask.

Bowing out now. MeMail me if you have any further questions.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:11 AM on June 15, 2016

I guess it's an age thing, but I don't see the period as aggressive other than in the pointed single-word reply.

Yes.

No.

My daughter is farting on her stuffed Rainbow Dash and cackling like a loon.

Only two of these sentences have that doom-finality to the period. I leave which two as an exercise to the reader.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:19 AM on June 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Also, if our solution is going to be making our sentences happier with exclamation points or separating them with dashes and tildes, I am going to burn everything.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:20 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

also "I have read a lot of WEB DuBois" is now my favorite appeal to authority ever

Mine is "I wrote a practice thesis"
posted by thelonius at 5:28 AM on June 15, 2016 [15 favorites]

I suspect you may be confusing discussion of the DuBoisian 'double consciousness', using the widely used linguistics term code switching, with it being a DuBois term. It's not.
posted by tavella at 5:39 AM on June 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

Certainly not trying to cause offense. If codeswitching isn't applicable to this kind of navigating textual signifiers, is there a better term? I've read my share of sociolinguistics too, and unless I've radically misunderstood something this seems like an accepted use.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:50 AM on June 15, 2016

*~-I'm so happy we're finally getting to talk about this-~*
posted by Night_owl at 5:52 AM on June 15, 2016

jim in austin: "Rather fond of the ellipsis myself..."

Then you might want to learn to use the proper glyph?

No 3 dots: ... blech.
Yes …
posted by signal at 5:52 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

If codeswitching isn't applicable to this kind of navigating textual signifiers, is there a better term?

It is fine. I don't want to throw shade because I do think pxe2000 is speaking in good faith, but I think their reading of the connotations of the phrase "code switching" is limited at best.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:58 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

pxe2000: "Words and phrases have meaning. Context matters."

Yes. And this thread has nothing to do with DuBois. Context matters, and you're on the wrong side of the context wall.

It's like jumping into a discussion about weightlifting saying "Hey, guys, the word 'iron' refers to something you use to get wrinkles out of shirts, so don't use the phrase 'pumping iron' when talking about working out. Context matters."
posted by Bugbread at 6:04 AM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

As a medium-old (early 40s) I was all set to get bothered about this, except that 1) as has been pointed out, this is just bad journalism being bad, and the full stop isn't going away, it's just going away from texting, and 2) looking through my own texts, it looks like I use it about half the time and skip it about half the time.

Interestingly (to me) it doesn't look like it has much to do with content or sentence length. I've got short sentences with periods (which I don't think sound angry), like:
Sounds good.
and long sentences without periods, like:
There are apparently people who are really emotionally attached to their Aibos
The only consistent pattern I've noticed is if there are multiple sentences in a single text, they all get a period. Changing punctuation formatting within a single text seems to be something up with which I will not put.
posted by Bugbread at 6:10 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wonder if there's also an element of negotiating whose turn it is to 'speak'. I saw a series of texts in which I hadn't quite finished a full set of thoughts and each text was an unperioded sentence, with the final text getting a period as if to say, "I'm done, you have the floor."
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:20 AM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm a technical writer, so I tend to assume that everything that I write will be judged for professional competence. Though I tend to leave off closing periods when texting.

It never occurred to me that the period character could be used to indicate anger. But I'm 56, so that might explain why.

English has always been an evolving language. As long as the sender and receiver understand one another, everything is fine. "Correct" English is only useful because it ensures that the largest number of people will accurately interpret what you meant to say. Does anyone still care that "hopefully" is not being used correctly, or that "data" is supposed to be used exclusively as a plural? (On the other hand, I get annoyed when people use "criteria" as a singular noun - it's "criterion" if there is only one of them, dammit.)
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 6:23 AM on June 15, 2016

does this mean i no longer need to say "ahoy-hoy" when receiving a call on my telephone machine?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:32 AM on June 15, 2016 [8 favorites]

As a proud millennial I always use periods in text messages. I have noticed that I will replace it with an exclamation point if I think the sentence might otherwise come off as terse.

I've also been trying to not use lol as much. It totally makes me seem like an old.
posted by mayonnaises at 6:34 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

does this mean i no longer need to say "ahoy-hoy" when receiving a call on my telephone machine?

no that is still required we are not animals
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:35 AM on June 15, 2016 [18 favorites]

“In an instant message, it is pretty obvious a sentence has come to an end, and none will have a full stop,” he added “So why use it?”

Because instant messaging is not the ultimate form of the written word.
posted by Splunge at 6:36 AM on June 15, 2016

I went back to look at the last text messages I traded with the youngsters of the house to refresh myself on how The Youth of Today uses or omits punctuation. A few nights ago I asked if they would be home for dinner and one responded "I'm home rn?" so I gather that uptalking is okay to signal in text?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:46 AM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

ultimate form of the written word.
🚀 🚽 ☯ ❄❄❄ ☎❤Ӝ

(I do hope that is perfectly clear and unambiguous.)
posted by sammyo at 6:54 AM on June 15, 2016

Ha, I've been doing the "angry period" thing for years, but I had no idea anybody else did, or would correctly parse my righteous marker of indignation... Knowing that my wrath actually came across makes me feel all warm and fuzzy
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 7:01 AM on June 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

YOU FORGOT THE PERFECTLY COILED UP TURD
posted by indubitable at 7:11 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I (early 40's) do a LOT of instant messaging (several hours a day, every weekday) with my sister, who's a few years older than I. We tend to stick with full sentences and proper grammar (including expressing horror when we accidentally type "your" instead of "you're" or whatever) but never use periods. (We do fall into ZOMFGWTFBBQ occasionally though)

My husband (a few years older than I) uses periods with every single text he sends. It makes me think like he's annoyed any time I talk to him.

My father (70) types the same way that I do, except he says "u" instead of "you".

My son (15) writes in full-ish sentences and doesn't really abbreviate, but doesn't use capital letters that often (which takes work, as he has an iPhone which usually capitalizes the first word of each text)
posted by Lucinda at 7:13 AM on June 15, 2016

Lucinda you can turn off initial caps on the iPhone, and just let the predictive text handle the rest.

(I'm using an iPhone to type this comment and haven't once used shift or switched keyboards)
posted by lonefrontranger at 7:19 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

a former master of original pronunciation at Shakespeare’s Globe theater in London

I know this post is about punctuation - can we talk about misplaced modifiers?
posted by Billiken at 7:28 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Perhaps an age thing, but clearly worth noting, though habit and use will ultimately determine as is usually the case. I note, additionally, that titles once Never used a number to begin the title, ie,
" Ten Moments I Will Always Cherish" but that now it is always: "10 Moments I Will Always Cherish."
posted by Postroad at 7:28 AM on June 15, 2016

oh right and yes if you're the sort who types a wall of text into a chat bubble, rather than just the conversational one-bubble-per thought/declaration then of course you use punctuation marks in the internal sentences. but generally in those kinds of exchanges you're not doing that because chat generally has a much looser flow. if you're sending me a damn novel in a text window, pls just either call me or send an email (giving you the side-eye hard MOM)...

it's like having an irl conversation, there's a bit of a flow to it, and social signifiers that maybe germane to one user group might not be noticed or important to others. but it does give your online communication an "accent", and sometimes tone that you may or may not intend, is all.
posted by lonefrontranger at 7:29 AM on June 15, 2016

Perhaps an age thing, but clearly worth noting, though habit and use will ultimately determine as is usually the case. I note, additionally, that titles once Never used a number to begin the title, ie,
" Ten Moments I Will Always Cherish" but that now it is always: "10 Moments I Will Always Cherish."

I find it distracting when numbers appear as numerals in text. Not a specific figure ("To repair the hot water heater will cost $272") but as a general amount ("State officials have found that 1000s of eligible voters were left off the rolls.") What is gained by this jarring usage?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:49 AM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

I am seeing commas dropped far more frequently than periods. My twitter timeline has many tweets with multiple sentences, and there are periods to separate them (as opposed to line-breaks, etc). I do notice that in multiple-sentence tweets that the terminal sentence, often as not, drops its period.

I tend to read the author's or character's voice in the style of their writing. Thus, I read the voice of low-punctuation sentences as informal, intimate, but most interestingly to having a dry, ironic tone: someone who usually uses full punctuation/capitalization will drop into no-caps, no punctuation mode if they're gently mocking something. Or exhausted.

We're usually very familiar with our friends' in-person speaking style, so we don't necessarily need the cues of punctuation to "hear" their message with their voice (given sufficient context).

Because of that handing off of the burden, lower levels of punctuation could be read as low-level hostility instead. I can think of at least two ways: One could be the reader's assumption that the writer eschewing convension out of disrespect. Another way hostility could be read into low-punctuation styles lies in the volume of addition labor the reader must perform in order to successfully interpret the tone. When an infrequent-punctuator addresses someone who expects conventional punctuation, they are (un)consciously projecting an indifference whether their written tone is properly interpreted.

I do tend find that those who most frequently drop punctuation altogether have perfect command of it when they do use it, but then, I don't text or tweet with too many non-well spoken people in general (hmm that sounds unbearably snotty as I phrased it so let's just say that those who don't have command of punctuation are those that try to call me before texting or I speak to them face-to-face more frequently than through textual means). The truly talented can write sentences without punctuation, and with careful word choice, phrasing, and pacing, will never be misunderstood. Reference: greg nog, Cormac McCarthy, @beehivesy (nsfw timeline)

The ability to hear a writer's voice in a sentence that is near or completely devoid of punctuation speaks to a greater level of reading comprehension. One must look farther to word choice, context (both the immediate conversation's context, as well as the context brought by the conversation's technological medium), the recipient's relationship to the writer, the context all party's relationship to wider trends within their social circle and society... It's a lot more factors to consider, and the burden of perceiving these factors is handed to the reader.

I do look forward to capitalization being abandoned altogether. I've always felt that capitalizing anything but proper names is unnecessarily formal and stiff. Then again, I'm the kind of person who's never cared when I see people in public in pajamas -- it's not my body, the grocery store is not a courtroom or a board room. If I did have a problem with it, it would be my problem, not the problem of those for whom the world is a living room.

I've never felt that inserting periods into text messages was an indication of anger, but I'm on the cusp of gen-x and millennials, and don't have that much experience texting with the younger end of the new generation.
posted by wires at 7:53 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

WESHOULDJUSTGOBACKTOWRITINGLIKETHEANCIENTGREEKSonlymaybenotincaps
posted by uosuaq at 7:53 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

brevity. we live in the age of Twitter and tl;dr.

I'm a technical writer myself and it bugs me but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by lonefrontranger at 7:53 AM on June 15, 2016

bleh, sorry should have previewed - that last was for ricochet biscuit.
posted by lonefrontranger at 7:54 AM on June 15, 2016

When texting, I use punctuation, spacing, and capitalization to express varying meanings and modulations in my speech. I only noticed the degree to which I do this one recent, ill-fated occasion; suddenly all the nuance was gone, and it was very difficult not to read everything I wrote as being extremely hostile, which nearly resulted in a fight.

Dropping the period is a conscious aesthetic choice. It conveys a variety of meanings, depending on the context:

What? means something different from what

That said, I have been abusing the living shit out of semicolons lately; a woman on the bus was ranting about how much she hated them and I feel compelled to defend their honor.
posted by louche mustachio at 8:04 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I generally try to use standard spelling and grammar of whatever language I'm typing in, but don't stress too much if I miss a comma or apostrophe.
Except when trolling fascist and/or homophobic trolls on Disqus: then I make sure to dot every i, cross every t and triple check spelling, usage and grammar before hitting post. Just to set up a contrast with their Troglodyte-like writing style.
posted by signal at 8:18 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Okay so this MIGHT be an obnoxious young person thing to say BUUUUUT...

Kids today don't get enough credit for the way they play with language and syntax.

I highly doubt that the period will ever actually die out. It's entirely too useful in the "real world." (IDGAF that John Mayer thinks there's no such thing; there totally, TOTALLY is and it is why I can misuse punctuation on metafilter, but not when I slack my boss)

But all of the little ways that this text based social media age group slightly alters their writing to better convey an exact emotion?

It's a little bit brilliant....

My parents and teachers SHUDDER at the thought of changing syntax and playing with grammar.

(Like, even as I write this post, somewhere in Boca Raton, Florida a retired high school english teacher named Yvonne Burton just choked on her mint julep and stared angrily at the sky, sensing a disturbance in the force.)

But, for my friends and I... we see it as just another toy. Something to be muddled around with on the internet. A tool for telling a more effective joke or making a point in an argument or expressing a tactile sense of emotion or illuminating our acceptance of the disgruntled millennial V O I D. (<- see what I did there? You read the word "void" in a different voice in your head. DAMN SYNTAX IS FUN AS HELL, SON.)
posted by Deeleybopper at 8:25 AM on June 15, 2016 [13 favorites]

Yeah; I took to heart that off-putting rant wherein Vonnegut bashed the semicolon as being useless except to "show you've been to college"

I love the suckers though; think I'll keep 'em
posted by aspersioncast at 8:29 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Anticipatory schadenfreude: there will be a thing the millennials keep doing like it's 2015 and their kids deride them for it 20 years from now. ("When you eye-blink too slowly in your VR goggle message heads-up neuro interface, it makes it seem like you're grumpy and angry! That's so super-annoying, we can't stand it! So blink faster, you oldsters, you're freaking us out! If you can't maybe just stay off the VR NeuroWeb and stick to stupid web pages. Also, when you have to resort to text, Dad, your old fashioned no-caps and no punctuation thing is so freaking ancient and stupid - please use your periods and caps like a non-weirdo!")
posted by aught at 8:32 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

the semicolon as being useless except to "show you've been to college"

Because having a college education is a bad thing. Or being capable of a certain subtlety of thought, anyhow? Sigh. Another thing that's passé.
posted by aught at 8:36 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I really enjoy the omitted period as an informal, stylistic quirk. I think of it along the same lines as "like" used as an intensifier: there's not much place for it in serious writing, but it's just fine in a conversational context.

I also hate comma splices in "real" writing, but I'll sometimes deliberately use them in conversational writing. They add a bit of nuance that's hard to describe.

Also sometimes I don't even, but sometimes I do.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:38 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I have run out of evens to cannot.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:48 AM on June 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

I will not give up my use of punctuation. Period.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:52 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

A tool for telling a more effective joke or making a point in an argument or expressing a tactile sense of emotion or illuminating our acceptance of the disgruntled millennial V O I D.

YES ABSOLUTELY. and that is why I have such utter disdain for the ZOMG KIDS THESE DAYS thesis of the article in the OP. to me it just totally smacks of Olds being Old (and come on, I'm saying this as a genuine Old myself - I'm almost 50!)

thank you, Deeleybopper, that was extremely articulate. I feel like the demographic equivalent of a snorkeler in the millennial seas of online discourse, so I can only report on stuff I've actually noticed.

also, come on - any of my fellow GenXers ever read comics/graphic novels? Or hey, Boomers - going straight back to the post WWII era when comics got super popular?? Those don't exactly use the AP Style Guide, do they? They use a combo of idiom/slang and visuals to convey emotion in text...

speaking of which, one of my favorite and more hilarious evolutions of discourse in online platforms such as slack/MMS is entire conversations held via stuff like emoji and gif keyboard memes.

because if you can't arse about with your colleagues/friends online like this, then what's the point, really?
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:07 AM on June 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

periods are the pins you stick in your sentences to affix them dead and complete to the page

a sentence without a period is in motion, alive, perpetually unfinished; that which is not punctuated can never die

anyway I look forward to the children of millennials bringing back the ¶ in informal writing just so they have some new ground to cover
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:28 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

For the most part, I still utilize proper punctuation when I tweet. Occasionally, I'll drop a comma or an apostrophe because of the 140 character limit, but as someone who holds a degree in English Literature, proper punctuation is too ingrained in me to completely drop from day to day use. The same goes for texting. I'm sure that it's also because of my age. Millennials can do whatever they want to do. I'll keep on tweeting and texting my way.
posted by Fizz at 9:35 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

but as someone who holds a degree in English Literature, proper punctuation is too ingrained in me to completely drop from day to day use.

see now I had a descriptivist teaching my required advanced grammar class
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:40 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

the semicolon as being useless except to "show you've been to college"

Because having a college education is a bad thing. Or being capable of a certain subtlety of thought, anyhow? Sigh. Another thing that's passé.

So, uh, I may have missed your point here, but are you honestly accusing Kurt Vonnegut of anti-intellectualism?
posted by Itaxpica at 10:02 AM on June 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

I was a descriptivist for most of my adult life, until quite recently when I saw this and now I am wavering.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:04 AM on June 15, 2016

So how do you pronounce lol anyway?

Like gif but with more l-s and o-s.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:19 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I get Vonnegut's aversion to the semicolon but there is a nuance to it that I very much like and it has nothing to do with showing people that I'm smart. I take the tone of my writing very seriously, at the risk of sounding like a self-inflated windbag. I'd like you to hear it in your head how I'd speak it out loud, and there are subtleties of rhythm, pacing and inflection that you straight will not get with only commas and periods.

I love English partly because English is a big mess of fine hair-splitting, and the semicolon is the perfect symbol to represent that. It ain't exactly a comma, and it ain't exactly a period. It is the perineum of punctuation, and I don't give a good goddamn who rolls their eyes, I'm going to keep using it.
posted by middleclasstool at 10:40 AM on June 15, 2016 [6 favorites]

the sense I've been getting from my current online cohort/network is that "hahahaha" (with or without exclamation points as intensifiers) signifies genuine "you just made me laugh irl", and "lol" and/or "lolz" reads more snarky/dismissive or "yeah it wasn't THAT funny". there is a definite demographic age gap between those using LOL (caps) with sincerity and lol/lolz/lawl (no caps) as snark/derision tho.
posted by lonefrontranger at 11:06 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

Red Loop: smammy: "tell me how to make an emdash with my keyboard man it ain't there

Not sure on Linux or Windows, but on macOS it's Option-Shift-dash. Also endash is Option-dash."

on windows it's ALT 0151 —

On Linux, it's [Compose] ---

—

I love the Caps Lock key on keyboards because it's so completely and utterly worthless but always there, so a perfect thing to map the Compose key to. Then I can type ♥ with [Compose] < 3 and ≠ with [Compose] = / and Ĝ with [Compose] ^ G and…
posted by fader at 11:28 AM on June 15, 2016

Just came across this:

[P]unctuation is cold notation; it is not frustrated speech; it is typographic code.
- Robert Bringhurst, "The Elements of Typographic Style," 2004

Does anyone else read the emphatic use of punctuation here as both prissy and annoyed at everybody else's stupidity?
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 12:14 PM on June 15, 2016

Almost as prissy and annoyed as the deliberate lack of punctuation by other people. Me, I'm laughing at hardliners on both sides of the* debate.

*I accidentally typed "teh" there, and almost left it in just to annoy...whoever that sort of thing annoys
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:19 PM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

> I still utilize proper punctuation... as someone who holds a degree in English Literature, proper punctuation is too ingrained in me

Sorry, personal pet peeve/bugbear and not intending to be fight-ey; utilize and utilization implies "using up" something. For example, "nutrient substrate utilization." For everything else, use "use." Otherwise, it comes across to me as someone who's trying to show off using a supposed $20 college word - incorrectly. Not that you or anyone else cares.
posted by porpoise at 12:20 PM on June 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

Fine.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:30 PM on June 15, 2016

another benefit of being a descriptivist is the singular joy of watching prescriptivists go at it with each other
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:31 PM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Almost as prissy and annoyed as the deliberate lack of punctuation by other people.

Sure; I was just amused by the apparent argument to use punctuation in one way while actually using it in another... Also by the way in which the archaic use of "frustrated" conveys frustration (the regular kind). If both of those are on purpose, which, dunno.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 12:31 PM on June 15, 2016

I guess how you send your texts/IM/etc matters a lot too. For me, 90%+ of texts, IMs, and message-app conversations are done by PC (via web interfaces). So I have a full keyboard and using full words and punctuation is easy. If you're mostly using a phone, I could understand being a little more slack with it (which is where I assume a lot of this originated). Of course, phones now will do a lot of spelling and punctuation automatically, so that's less necessary these days.

Even if I get a message on my phone, most of the time I'm near enough to a keyboard that I will wait until I have one to respond, and only use the phone if necessary. I still use full punctuation and spelling on a phone, because then it would make my texts look weird if they're mostly correct but occasionally not.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:46 PM on June 15, 2016

YOU FORGOT THE PERFECTLY COILED UP TURD

hey that's not as easy as it looks


also can we have a Du Boisian double consciousness thread?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:46 PM on June 15, 2016

I dunno... I'm not sure the period is dying out, per se... I mean... sometimes they're not there... sure... but... I think... maybe... it's just because... there's a few people... using them all up...
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 1:03 PM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'd like you to hear it in your head how I'd speak it out loud, and there are subtleties of rhythm, pacing and inflection that you straight will not get with only commas and periods.

Semicolon use pretty easily descends into performative eloquence, but there is a really great Jay Hopler poem where the line steadily accelerates from period through semicolon to comma and then halts on an em dash ("Ruined. Magnificent; ferocious, gorgeous—") and I think it's one of my favorite poetic-rhythmic feats ever.
posted by invitapriore at 1:24 PM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

So, uh, I may have missed your point here, but are you honestly accusing Kurt Vonnegut of anti-intellectualism?

Not exactly. I'm a great fan of much of his work too, but like many satirists he often just said foolish things to get a rise out of people.
posted by aught at 1:51 PM on June 15, 2016

What's the point???
posted by Burn_IT at 1:57 PM on June 15, 2016

It's a sharp or tapering end, as of a dagger - but that's not important right now.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:05 PM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]

Also, it's a charming movie from 1971.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:07 PM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

And an equally charming soundtrack album.

And I think we're losing the point. Got to be careful or we'll be banished to the Pointless Forest.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 2:13 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

It ain't exactly a comma, and it ain't exactly a period. It is the perineum of punctuation...

middleclasstool, dare I ask what sex is represented by a semicolon?

, ; .

Not exactly sure here...
posted by BlueHorse at 3:27 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wrote a practice thesis on the Harlem Renaissance and have read a lot of WEB DuBois. The phrase "code switching" has a very specific meaning among DuBois scholars, as it refers to the experiences of POCs in predominantly White spaces as opposed to spaces where they spend time with people from their background. Seeing the phrase "code switching" in this context is close to cultural appropriation.

lol
posted by Sebmojo at 3:36 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]

Deeleybopper: "My parents and teachers SHUDDER at the thought of changing syntax and playing with grammar."

I promise you this is because they are your parents and teachers. Grown-ass adults also play with syntax and grammar, but they want kids to have the ability to code switch, not to be locked into terrible grammar as their only setting, so adults who are in positions where they are expected to be role models (parents, teachers, bosses, etc.) will be much more straight-laced than someone who doesn't give a fuck what influence they might have on the young impressionable mind they're talking to.

(I jaywalk like a motherfucker, but I never jaywalk when there are little kids around. I live across the street from a nursery school, and I've noticed that adults almost never jaywalk here, but they jaywalk plenty just a few blocks away.)

porpoise: "Sorry, personal pet peeve/bugbear and not intending to be fight-ey; utilize and utilization implies "using up" something."

I was under the impression "utilize" was to make good use of something for which it was not intended. Googling that topic came up with this example of the difference between "use" and "utilize":
The teachers were unable to use the new computers. (They couldn't use them at all)
The teachers were unable to utilize the new computers. (They could use them, but couldn't make good use of them)

aught: "Not exactly. I'm a great fan of much of his work too, but like many satirists he often just said foolish things to get a rise out of people."

You know the joke about how you can tell a Harvard alum because they'll tell you they went to Harvard within the first five minutes of conversation? That's what he's getting at. Going to Harvard is not bad. Making it a point to tell people "I went to Harvard!" is annoying. He's saying that using a semicolon is not a thing that people do that shows they've been to college, it's a thing that people do to show they've been to college.

Disclaimer: I love semicolons and will continue to use them. I think Vonnegut is wrong. I just don't think that his criticism of semi-colon use was anti-intellectual.
posted by Bugbread at 4:24 PM on June 15, 2016 [4 favorites]

(Sorry, should have broken that up into "make good use of something" and "use something for which it was not intended", two separate meanings)
posted by Bugbread at 5:42 PM on June 15, 2016

I had a conversation recently with a friend (we're both mid-20s and well-educated) about the different ways of indicating laughter over text. For us: 'hahaha' is your standard 'that was funny'. 'Haha' can be the same but a little sharper, or can mean a forced laugh. 'Ha' pretty well corresponds to the sound "ha", in all its multiplicity of meanings -- the same way it does in most writing, I think. 'Hahahaha' indicates intense laughter, or that the writer is sloppy.

More than four 'ha's is just gauche...

I've had the urge lately to try to bring back 'lol' as a general purpose sign for laughter, as sort of a retro thing, probably to try to distinguish myself from the kids. Unfortunately lol has become freighted with so much sarcasm and snark (or was it always that way on the web and I just didn't notice as a teenager on AIM?) that it's hard to use it to just mean laughter.

There is no short way to indicate that something is so funny I actually burst out laughing; I would probably just say something like, 'omg!!! that's funny'. But this is not even trying to represent laughter itself, it's what you say after you've calmed down enough to stop laughing. Sometimes text seems tragically impersonal.
posted by gold-in-green at 6:18 PM on June 15, 2016

gold-in-green: "Unfortunately lol has become freighted with so much sarcasm and snark (or was it always that way on the web and I just didn't notice as a teenager on AIM?) that it's hard to use it to just mean laughter."

(For the purpose of this comment, "young" = "at an age where you're probably single", "middle-aged" means "at an age where you're probably a parent", and "old" means "at an age where you are probably a grandparent")

I'd vote for "always that way", but in the sense of "the whole time", not "in every instance". When "lol" first started gaining steam among young folks, some middle-aged folks really started adopting it to seem "hip", other middle-aged folks didn't use it at all, and some young folks just used it like l33t speak as a sarcastic way to caricature idiots. So there were always people using it sincerely and always people using it as ridicule.

The middle-aged folks who used it to seem "hip" are now old folks, and they still use it.
The middle-aged folks who didn't use it at all still don't use it.
The young folks who used it sincerely are now middle-aged folks who use it sincerely.
The young folks who used it sarcastically are now middle-aged folks who won the descriptivist battle, shaping the young people of today.
posted by Bugbread at 6:55 PM on June 15, 2016

This Key & Peele skit might be relevant.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:57 PM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]

who currently think they've won the descriptivist battle

FTFY.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:09 PM on June 15, 2016

This NYTimes article is going to be one of those things people dig up in a hundred years to prove that people have been wringing their hands over unimportant stuff for a really long time.
posted by teponaztli at 8:36 AM on June 16, 2016

oh dear good FSM that series of XKCD quotes... and we thought privilege slant in the media was bad today, ugh. That whole thing reads like a bunch of high class landed gentry lamenting the "demise" of something (time to play/read/write long letters / sit on one's arse reading the news) that has only ever existed for the .0001% throughout history ... and that only because they offload the actual hard work that takes up that time to those less fortunate.
posted by lonefrontranger at 8:51 AM on June 16, 2016

Unfortunately lol has become freighted with so much sarcasm and snark (or was it always that way on the web and I just didn't notice as a teenager on AIM?) that it's hard to use it to just mean laughter.

My first encounters with "lol" were on IRC (and some CompuServe fora) in the mid 1990's, and back then it was used almost exclusively to mean that you were, right at that second, literally laughing out loud at the witty thing someone had just typed. It was great to see some lol's in response to something you had said. Now it feels like it's been years since I've seen it used that way. Now it's either snarky or a sort of punctuation mark used by my parents' generation to show that they intended the previous sentence to be humorous.

Sentences that end in lol have never, not even once, made me lol.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:53 AM on June 16, 2016

My mom doesn't text much, but when she does she always uses proper grammar and punctuation. I sent her a text letting her know that a gift I ordered for my grandmother had shipped and she replied:

Thanks.

I panicked for a second because from anyone else that . would mean the sender was angry. I always have to remind myself that she is not mad at me every time she sends a text.
posted by elvissa at 8:54 AM on June 16, 2016

also can we have a Du Boisian double consciousness thread?

It'd actually be a great FPP, but I don't know if I'm the person to do it. Though I do have The Souls of Black Folk prepped on my tablet for a reread sometime soon.
posted by tavella at 9:27 AM on June 16, 2016

> I still utilize proper punctuation... as someone who holds a degree in English Literature, proper punctuation is too ingrained in me

Sorry, personal pet peeve/bugbear and not intending to be fight-ey; utilize and utilization implies "using up" something. For example, "nutrient substrate utilization." For everything else, use "use." Otherwise, it comes across to me as someone who's trying to show off using a supposed $20 college word - incorrectly. Not that you or anyone else cares.

Ha. Love that you proofread and made note of all of my lazy grammatical errors. Never change MetaFilter.
posted by Fizz at 1:37 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fizz: "Never change MetaFilter."

I don't think he's in a position to change MetaFilter.

Oh, wait, I get it! You meant "Never change, MetaFilter"!

Boy, an italicized and bolded comma looks pretty much exactly like a normal comma, huh.
posted by Bugbread at 3:40 PM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Also, just an anecdotal aside, last year my fiancee got chewed out by a fairly well-known Beat-generation writer for using what he decided was improper grammar. He was actually wrong, which made her only that much more annoyed. He kept saying how important it is that we maintain the beauty and strength of the English language, but you'd think those qualities are held together by more than little Strunk/White technicalities (besides that, as I said, he was wrong). But what do I know. "English was such a pretty language before period usage changed," they'll say.
posted by teponaztli at 6:01 PM on June 16, 2016

Bugbread,

*sets fire to English Lit. diploma*

“I give up. You win.”
posted by Fizz at 2:57 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

gatorae: "If it was my contemporary, that "." would mean "I'll do it but I don't want to." With my mom, I know it's just a period... but it really does look very angry."

Great. Now I have to try and guess the recipient of any particular text thinks I'm angry at them for terminal periods or things I'm an ill educated product of poor schooling for not punctuating properly. Thanks to social anxiety I may never text again.
posted by Mitheral at 7:30 AM on June 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

Now I have to try and guess [if] the recipient of any particular text thinks I'm angry at them for terminal periods or thingsthinks I'm an ill[-]educated product of poor schooling for not punctuating properly.

FTFY.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:50 AM on June 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

And now I can't comment on Metafilter.
posted by Mitheral at 9:59 PM on June 21, 2016