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June 16, 2016 9:35 AM Subscribe
What it's like to work for the new on-demand economy.
"Deliveroo says riders engage with it flexibly as freelancers, saying when they want to work. This means they are responsible for their own insurance – but the company is looking into new approaches with insurers."
Right. "New approaches."
posted by blucevalo at 9:41 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Right. "New approaches."
posted by blucevalo at 9:41 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Any "Deliveroo says..." notation is either "Deliveroo says nuh-uh!" or "Deliveroo says fuck you, you'll take what we give you under the bare legal minimum that we have to, and you'll like it."
posted by Etrigan at 9:44 AM on June 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 9:44 AM on June 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
about a year ago I needed to go someplace where parking was terrible and I thought hey, why don't I try taking an Uber? so I downloaded the app and summoned a driver and watched on the map as his icon started moving toward my location and a little voice inside me said no, no, don't do it, this is wrong, once you start down this dark path forever will the new economy dominate your destiny, and I snapped out of my trance and cancelled the request and deleted the app and I have lived the righteous life ever since. If you too would like help resisting the dark pull of the new economy pls back the kickstarter for my new app Resistr, any time you feel like using one of these services just activate the app and some nice happy person who totally has a real job and is just doing this to supplement their income will text you with the number for Molly Maid or your local taxi company or whoever
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:55 AM on June 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:55 AM on June 16, 2016 [30 favorites]
Whenever I get a Seamless delivery I really want to engage the delivery people in friendly conversation but they seem so harried that I feel like I'd just be prolonging their misery.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:55 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:55 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was on the Tube the other day and noticed just how many companies there were advertising these kind of on-demand service. One that can hang your pictures or put together your flatpack furniture. One that will clean and handle your AirBnB property for you. Uber. Deliveroo. A cleaning service. Something to do with laundry. Car hire. Next to these, an advert for an estate agent with the strapline 'They made me £1m!' I just found it a bit depressing. Maybe there are many people here who are cash-rich and time poor, but it makes me uncomfortable to think of people being used as, well, human resources. (Mturk just opened up to people in the UK - albeit with payment only in Amazon.com gift vouchers - and I have no idea who is transcribing all those receipts for 1c a pop.)
There's a Deliveroo driver who hangs around on his bike near our building (which is nowhere near central London). Am I right in thinking that it's pay per delivery, not the time on call?
posted by mippy at 9:56 AM on June 16, 2016
There's a Deliveroo driver who hangs around on his bike near our building (which is nowhere near central London). Am I right in thinking that it's pay per delivery, not the time on call?
posted by mippy at 9:56 AM on June 16, 2016
This is what the Deliveroo drivers generally look like on the road. It seems really unsafe.
Mind you, when my workplace still had to have physical media delivered, we got tons of cycle couriers riding in and out. I would imagine many other formerly courier-reliant companies don't need to use them so much. A new starter here asked one day 'Who are all those people with bikes who hang around sometimes?' because they'd become so rare. Were those tattooed guys with Unamerican.com stickers all over their beat-up frames being exploited as well?
posted by mippy at 9:57 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mind you, when my workplace still had to have physical media delivered, we got tons of cycle couriers riding in and out. I would imagine many other formerly courier-reliant companies don't need to use them so much. A new starter here asked one day 'Who are all those people with bikes who hang around sometimes?' because they'd become so rare. Were those tattooed guys with Unamerican.com stickers all over their beat-up frames being exploited as well?
posted by mippy at 9:57 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
...or your local taxi company...
A-ha! I knew Resistr was just a cover operation to get people to use Uber.
posted by griphus at 9:58 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
A-ha! I knew Resistr was just a cover operation to get people to use Uber.
posted by griphus at 9:58 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
So... your new app will disrupt disruption, pbo? I like the cut of your jib!
Also, I think anyone associated with the management and especially the naming of Deliveroo should be sentenced to a decade of hard labor, to think about what they've done.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:58 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, I think anyone associated with the management and especially the naming of Deliveroo should be sentenced to a decade of hard labor, to think about what they've done.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:58 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Came here to say pbo is really disruptive, was beaten to the punch...
posted by randomkeystrike at 10:02 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by randomkeystrike at 10:02 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
And as usual, we all agree that as white collar workers we just can't afford not to employ exploited labor to bring us our dinners, etc, and that, in fact, it is faintly risible and embarrassing even to suggest trying to avoid these services as much as possible. Why, yes, only some kind of trustafarian punk rocker would possibly suggest such a thing.
"The whole system needs to be changed," we say. "I work fifty hour weeks, I have to hire a cleaner and I can't afford an expensive one, plus my partner and I fight about chores," we say. The system is broken, we say, so it's not incumbent on us to avoid exploiting labor. Somebody (~waves hands~) should make sure that everyone makes a living wage, that's the solution! Everything else is doomed to failure. *orders single crepe for lunch*
posted by Frowner at 10:03 AM on June 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
"The whole system needs to be changed," we say. "I work fifty hour weeks, I have to hire a cleaner and I can't afford an expensive one, plus my partner and I fight about chores," we say. The system is broken, we say, so it's not incumbent on us to avoid exploiting labor. Somebody (~waves hands~) should make sure that everyone makes a living wage, that's the solution! Everything else is doomed to failure. *orders single crepe for lunch*
posted by Frowner at 10:03 AM on June 16, 2016 [23 favorites]
There's a Deliveroo driver who hangs around on his bike near our building (which is nowhere near central London). Am I right in thinking that it's pay per delivery, not the time on call?
Deliveroo pay £7 an hour, and then £1 per delivery...posted by Etrigan at 10:03 AM on June 16, 2016
"I buy products made by exploited workers at the grocery store," we also say. "So it would be totally hypocritical not to get dinner from Bite Squad tonight."
posted by Frowner at 10:04 AM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 10:04 AM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I read that, Etrigan, but I didn't know if your paid hour starts once you start your motorcycle. Like a zero hours contract, but with the added exciting bonus of having to try and file your taxes yourself.
posted by mippy at 10:06 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by mippy at 10:06 AM on June 16, 2016
yeah but
be part of the Deliveroo movement
this isn't just a job, it's a movement! and it's very disappointingly old economy of you all to be talking about rates and hours
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:09 AM on June 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
be part of the Deliveroo movement
this isn't just a job, it's a movement! and it's very disappointingly old economy of you all to be talking about rates and hours
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:09 AM on June 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Deliveroo pay £7 an hour, and then £1 per delivery...
Yes, but you only get three-hour shifts. You have to sit around off the clock between three-hour shifts during the slack time. It's like restaurants that make the servers sit in the corner off the clock, without pay, when no customers are around.
posted by JackFlash at 10:13 AM on June 16, 2016
Yes, but you only get three-hour shifts. You have to sit around off the clock between three-hour shifts during the slack time. It's like restaurants that make the servers sit in the corner off the clock, without pay, when no customers are around.
posted by JackFlash at 10:13 AM on June 16, 2016
Is it possible to have services like this that charge/pay a fair amount and are competitive within the ecosystem established by the Ubers and so on?
I ask because I've started using Uber and Lyft almost exclusively over local car services because the local/traditional places are barely, if at all, trying to keep up. I can't blame the other cab companies; cab driving isn't exactly a high-margin biz (unless you're selling loans and leases) but at which point does convenience trump inconvenience when you're paying (often more) to be inconvenienced.
The moral calculus of this is ... more difficult than it appears. For me, at least.
posted by griphus at 10:16 AM on June 16, 2016
I ask because I've started using Uber and Lyft almost exclusively over local car services because the local/traditional places are barely, if at all, trying to keep up. I can't blame the other cab companies; cab driving isn't exactly a high-margin biz (unless you're selling loans and leases) but at which point does convenience trump inconvenience when you're paying (often more) to be inconvenienced.
The moral calculus of this is ... more difficult than it appears. For me, at least.
posted by griphus at 10:16 AM on June 16, 2016
Is it possible to have services like this that charge/pay a fair amount and are competitive within the ecosystem established by the Ubers and so on?
In general, in a fully employed economy, no. It simply makes no sense to waste human beings time doing unproductive work like delivering a crepe to a stockbrokers office. In a fully-employed economy people would be doing much more productive jobs.
But in a deliberately designed economy of under-employment, it means there are lots of desperate people around willing to do relatively unproductive work just to survive. Companies like Uber and Lyft could not exist in a functioning full-employment economy.
posted by JackFlash at 10:23 AM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
In general, in a fully employed economy, no. It simply makes no sense to waste human beings time doing unproductive work like delivering a crepe to a stockbrokers office. In a fully-employed economy people would be doing much more productive jobs.
But in a deliberately designed economy of under-employment, it means there are lots of desperate people around willing to do relatively unproductive work just to survive. Companies like Uber and Lyft could not exist in a functioning full-employment economy.
posted by JackFlash at 10:23 AM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Companies like Uber and Lyft could not exist in a functioning full-employment economy.
I don't understand, would the entire taxi industry collapse in a fully-employed economy? My question was whether you could have a company that has the customer-oriented features of Uber and Lyft -- features that make them much, much better and simpler to use that traditional cab companies and car services -- while at the same time treating their employees (or "employees" or whatever) in a non-exploitative manner.
posted by griphus at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't understand, would the entire taxi industry collapse in a fully-employed economy? My question was whether you could have a company that has the customer-oriented features of Uber and Lyft -- features that make them much, much better and simpler to use that traditional cab companies and car services -- while at the same time treating their employees (or "employees" or whatever) in a non-exploitative manner.
posted by griphus at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Is there any reason that traditional cab companies can't have app-based cab-summoning and PayPal-based payment? I don't want to use Uber because I don't think my convenience outweighs the other considerations, but it sounds like there is some good stuff about the Uber model that is completely independent of the sharing economy bullshit.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Jinx
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's a local hire-a-taskdoer startup that decided to advertise by spray-painting their logo all over a local bike trail. This happened a few months ago and, from what I've seen, they're still being assholes about it.
posted by SillyShepherd at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by SillyShepherd at 10:26 AM on June 16, 2016
Is there any reason that traditional cab companies can't have app-based cab-summoning and PayPal-based payment?
Some are starting to around here, but cab companies here are generally fly-by-night businesses that have not a lot of capital hanging around to Go Digital. Most dispatches I've been inside don't even have computers; just phone banks and a big map.
posted by griphus at 10:27 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Some are starting to around here, but cab companies here are generally fly-by-night businesses that have not a lot of capital hanging around to Go Digital. Most dispatches I've been inside don't even have computers; just phone banks and a big map.
posted by griphus at 10:27 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The other thing is that Uber has a vehicle maintenance and cleanliness requirement that would absolutely doom a whole lot of car service agencies if it became somehow universal. The reason a lot of them can stay afloat is that they do the exact bare minimum of vehicle maintenance.
posted by griphus at 10:29 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 10:29 AM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The thing to remember is that Uber has those requirements because they're not the ones paying for them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:31 AM on June 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:31 AM on June 16, 2016 [24 favorites]
Right yes, that's why my original question was whether a company that provides the standard of service Uber provides in a conscientious/fair/non-exploitative way is capable of competing with companies like Uber. Can the hypothetical Good Guy win or are we stuck with rattletraps that show up a half hour after they're called on the one hand and the Lex Luthor Cab Co. on the other.
posted by griphus at 10:34 AM on June 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by griphus at 10:34 AM on June 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm juuuust old enough to remember when the primary push for online service was "removing the middleman" and not placing a thousand new wealth extracting middlemen in the way reliant on indentured servitude with no hope of escape.
posted by The Whelk at 10:35 AM on June 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 10:35 AM on June 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
Maybe there are many people here who are cash-rich and time poor
Not many people truly fit that description, but marketers would like everyone to be in that bracket, so they ruthlessly promote it as a condition to aspire to. I worked for Nokia 20 years ago and they put the phrase in every presentation.
If you're a middle class person with a decent income and you really believe you have no time, then you feel less guilt about consuming more and more disposable and unsustainable products or services. The next really big thing (billion-dollar tech companies) is boxes containing your food for the week, all measured out in little plastic bags containing a single basil leaf or whatever, because we're all cash-rich and time-poor and can't possibly shop for food any more (like we used to do only last week).
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:36 AM on June 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Not many people truly fit that description, but marketers would like everyone to be in that bracket, so they ruthlessly promote it as a condition to aspire to. I worked for Nokia 20 years ago and they put the phrase in every presentation.
If you're a middle class person with a decent income and you really believe you have no time, then you feel less guilt about consuming more and more disposable and unsustainable products or services. The next really big thing (billion-dollar tech companies) is boxes containing your food for the week, all measured out in little plastic bags containing a single basil leaf or whatever, because we're all cash-rich and time-poor and can't possibly shop for food any more (like we used to do only last week).
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:36 AM on June 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
I actually have never had a problem with cabs being dirty, although I recognize that I have pretty low standards. The attractive features of Uber are:
1. Really easy to call a cab, and you don't have to draw attention to the fact that you're doing it.
2. You don't have to fiddle with money or worry about whether you have enough cash, except for the tip.
3. You have a record of who picked you up. Unfortunately, a while back there was a string of sexual assaults by a cab driver in my area, and it was hard for the cops to figure out who was responsible.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:39 AM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
1. Really easy to call a cab, and you don't have to draw attention to the fact that you're doing it.
2. You don't have to fiddle with money or worry about whether you have enough cash, except for the tip.
3. You have a record of who picked you up. Unfortunately, a while back there was a string of sexual assaults by a cab driver in my area, and it was hard for the cops to figure out who was responsible.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:39 AM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
At rush hour, I see a shitload of Luxe on-demand parking valets hanging out on the street corner outside my office building in downtown Austin. I also see them hanging out in various places around town during the day, between the busy times. They sit in the lobby of the hotel attached to my building and use the hotel's bathrooms. The hotel/building staff actively shoos off homeless people who do either of those things. Why should the hotel allow people who essentially work for a company using their resources? Of course, it appears a significant number of their parking clients work in my building, so I guess the staff has somewhat of an interest in their success. Besides, you know, the Luxe parkers don't act, look and smell like icky homeless people. Not sure what my point is.
posted by tippiedog at 10:40 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by tippiedog at 10:40 AM on June 16, 2016
My question was whether you could have a company that has the customer-oriented features of Uber and Lyft.
Only if you are willing to pay let's say 50% to 100% more for that service.
my original question was whether a company that provides the standard of service Uber provides in a conscientious/fair/non-exploitative way is capable of competing with companies like Uber.
Well of course not. A company that pays decent wages and benefits cannot compete with a company that does neither.
posted by JackFlash at 10:40 AM on June 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Only if you are willing to pay let's say 50% to 100% more for that service.
my original question was whether a company that provides the standard of service Uber provides in a conscientious/fair/non-exploitative way is capable of competing with companies like Uber.
Well of course not. A company that pays decent wages and benefits cannot compete with a company that does neither.
posted by JackFlash at 10:40 AM on June 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Am I the only one who thought that the AirBnB story felt wildly out of place next to the other three? The first three were all about "the hours aren't that flexible and there aren't any benefits" and then the last one is "you might miss a soccer game."
posted by Johnny Assay at 10:41 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Assay at 10:41 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The attractive features of Uber are:
4. It costs less than half what a black cab costs.
5. No racist lecture from the driver.
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:41 AM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
4. It costs less than half what a black cab costs.
5. No racist lecture from the driver.
posted by Coda Tronca at 10:41 AM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Right yes, that's why my original question was whether a company that provides the standard of service Uber provides in a conscientious/fair/non-exploitative way is capable of competing with companies like Uber. Can the hypothetical Good Guy win or are we stuck with rattletraps that show up a half hour after they're called on the one hand and the Lex Luthor Cab Co. on the other.
I don't think so, because an intrinsic element of the gig economy is privatization of profit, socialization of risk. Take the ability of Uber to send you a driver almost immediately. They can do that, because they've set their system up to maintain a certain amount of slack. And they can do that, because they're making sure that they get a cut of the rides, regardless of who provides them. They don't care about drivers cannibalizing each other, because that's not their problem.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:44 AM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I don't think so, because an intrinsic element of the gig economy is privatization of profit, socialization of risk. Take the ability of Uber to send you a driver almost immediately. They can do that, because they've set their system up to maintain a certain amount of slack. And they can do that, because they're making sure that they get a cut of the rides, regardless of who provides them. They don't care about drivers cannibalizing each other, because that's not their problem.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:44 AM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm juuuust old enough to remember when the primary push for online service was "removing the middleman" and not placing a thousand new wealth extracting middlemen in the way reliant on indentured servitude with no hope of escape.
Oh, they did. That was the middle class. Now the wealth-extracting goes directly to the top, while simultaneously creating tons of new indentured servants! Genius.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:47 AM on June 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh, they did. That was the middle class. Now the wealth-extracting goes directly to the top, while simultaneously creating tons of new indentured servants! Genius.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:47 AM on June 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Any "Deliveroo says..." notation is either "Deliveroo says nuh-uh!" or "Deliveroo says fuck you, you'll take what we give you under the bare legal minimum that we have to, and you'll like it."
Deliveroo says pick up a crepe. Deliveroo says become an independent contractor. Organize for health insurance and higher wages. OOPS, Deliveroo didn't say!
posted by en forme de poire at 10:58 AM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Deliveroo says pick up a crepe. Deliveroo says become an independent contractor. Organize for health insurance and higher wages. OOPS, Deliveroo didn't say!
posted by en forme de poire at 10:58 AM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Is there any reason that traditional cab companies can't have app-based cab-summoning and PayPal-based payment?
Thats what Flywheel is for. Basically an Uber-style app/interface for actual licensed taxi services.
posted by thefoxgod at 11:04 AM on June 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well of course not. A company that pays decent wages and benefits cannot compete with a company that does neither.
Sure they can, but only if the economy is healthy enough where workers have the freedom to say "fuck you" to the latter.
posted by ODiV at 11:13 AM on June 16, 2016
Sure they can, but only if the economy is healthy enough where workers have the freedom to say "fuck you" to the latter.
posted by ODiV at 11:13 AM on June 16, 2016
Sounds like I'm trying to rebut you there, when really it was more meant to expand on it (and maybe provide a path to hope?). Of course if a company is able to employ people with shitty wages and no benefits it's going to be impossible for a company doing the opposite to compete.
posted by ODiV at 11:21 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by ODiV at 11:21 AM on June 16, 2016
Is there any reason that traditional cab companies can't have app-based cab-summoning and PayPal-based payment?
Some do, Austin has a couple good ones. But I remember talking to a company that was trying to provide this service to established cab companies (before Uber) and the drivers resisted it hard. IIRC one of the phones used in the trial was returned covered in piss.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:32 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some do, Austin has a couple good ones. But I remember talking to a company that was trying to provide this service to established cab companies (before Uber) and the drivers resisted it hard. IIRC one of the phones used in the trial was returned covered in piss.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:32 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean were they honestly expecting anything different after handing someone a device and telling them it's to nominally make their life easier and oh by the way it tracks your every movement and makes it a lot easier for people to complain about you.
posted by griphus at 11:39 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by griphus at 11:39 AM on June 16, 2016
Is there any reason that traditional cab companies can't have app-based cab-summoning and PayPal-based payment?
Flywheel does this (but maybe with Google Wallet or their own payment system?). They are somewhat more expensive, but not like 2x.
I have to admit that while I try to bike and take transit whenever possible, I still use Uber and Lyft kind of regularly. I think there's kind of a Walmart effect going on; they depress prices so much that people soon come to depend on them. Their ride-sharing services in particular seem to have improved a lot recently, probably because more people are using them; the last couple of times I've used them it's been only a couple of bucks more than transit but more than twice as fast (which is a lot, when the same trip by transit would take an hour and ten minutes). Of course, I would way rather have access to reliable, fast mass transit for a ton of reasons, but that's never going to happen in my lifetime because America lol.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:08 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Flywheel does this (but maybe with Google Wallet or their own payment system?). They are somewhat more expensive, but not like 2x.
I have to admit that while I try to bike and take transit whenever possible, I still use Uber and Lyft kind of regularly. I think there's kind of a Walmart effect going on; they depress prices so much that people soon come to depend on them. Their ride-sharing services in particular seem to have improved a lot recently, probably because more people are using them; the last couple of times I've used them it's been only a couple of bucks more than transit but more than twice as fast (which is a lot, when the same trip by transit would take an hour and ten minutes). Of course, I would way rather have access to reliable, fast mass transit for a ton of reasons, but that's never going to happen in my lifetime because America lol.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:08 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also can we talk about how the name "Deliveroo" sounds like it's straight out of Oryx and Crake
posted by en forme de poire at 12:09 PM on June 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 12:09 PM on June 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
The next really big thing (billion-dollar tech companies) is boxes containing your food for the week, all measured out in little plastic bags containing a single basil leaf or whatever, because we're all cash-rich and time-poor and can't possibly shop for food any more (like we used to do only last week)
These already exist in the UK - there's one called HelloFresh and a few others. How do I know about them? Because on my way to work there are people handing out about a dozen leaflets, free magazines or coupons, and they are amongst them.
posted by mippy at 12:15 PM on June 16, 2016
These already exist in the UK - there's one called HelloFresh and a few others. How do I know about them? Because on my way to work there are people handing out about a dozen leaflets, free magazines or coupons, and they are amongst them.
posted by mippy at 12:15 PM on June 16, 2016
I've quit using Uber in favor of Lyft because I realize how underpaid drivers are but also I don't want to have to worry about having a correct denomination of cash (or any at all) to tip. But really I just wish that these services would pay/charge fair rates because the app-based model is otherwise so much more enjoyable and efficient than a cab. And it's not like cab drivers were enjoying company health insurance and sizeable hourly rates before this went down, anyways (in any US city that I know).
To that end, so much delivery and home cleaning work has always been done by people with poor pay, benefits, and security. Is there just more being delivered now? Or it's more visible, because the companies are larger?
posted by R a c h e l at 12:28 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
To that end, so much delivery and home cleaning work has always been done by people with poor pay, benefits, and security. Is there just more being delivered now? Or it's more visible, because the companies are larger?
posted by R a c h e l at 12:28 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
These already exist in the UK - there's one called HelloFresh and a few others. How do I know about them? Because on my way to work there are people handing out about a dozen leaflets, free magazines or coupons, and they are amongst them.
Previously, still-open thread
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:35 PM on June 16, 2016
Previously, still-open thread
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:35 PM on June 16, 2016
If I had a dollar for every podcast ad I heard about Blue Apron, I would be able to afford Blue Apron. jk not even then.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:37 PM on June 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 12:37 PM on June 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
"Deliveroo" is seriously the worst name for anything I have heard ever. Seriously, was everything else taken?
posted by Slinga at 12:51 PM on June 16, 2016
posted by Slinga at 12:51 PM on June 16, 2016
everything except www.clownpenis.fart
posted by en forme de poire at 12:52 PM on June 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 12:52 PM on June 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
If I had a dollar for every podcast ad I heard about Blue Apron, I would be able to afford Blue Apron. jk not even then.
buddy don't waste your time; I got one of those male chimps they're always advertising and unless you count feces thrown at my head, he hasn't sent out a single fuckin' letter
posted by griphus at 1:04 PM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
buddy don't waste your time; I got one of those male chimps they're always advertising and unless you count feces thrown at my head, he hasn't sent out a single fuckin' letter
posted by griphus at 1:04 PM on June 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
you ordered a knockoff product; you want Mail Kimp-uh
source: murder podcast
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:06 PM on June 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
source: murder podcast
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:06 PM on June 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
be part of the Deliveroo movement
brb, gotta deliveroo a movement
posted by Existential Dread at 1:41 PM on June 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
brb, gotta deliveroo a movement
posted by Existential Dread at 1:41 PM on June 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
It's like restaurants that make the servers sit in the corner off the clock, without pay, when no customers are around.
So, illegal?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:49 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, illegal?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:49 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
In New York, there's Arro, which calls a Yellow or Green cab for you. I try to use it first and only resort to Lyft if I can't get a real cab. And I really haven't noticed a difference between the rates for Lyft and a regular cab here.
posted by Hactar at 2:03 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Hactar at 2:03 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's like restaurants that make the servers sit in the corner off the clock, without pay, when no customers are around.
So, illegal?
In the case of restaurant workers it is now illegal thanks to years of effort fighting for the rights of employees. But companies like Uber and Deliveroo are creating a whole new category of worker that is exempt from the hard fought rules for employees. They talk about "creative" destruction, but the only thing they are destroying are the rights and benefits of traditional employees. That's the innovation and its not really that novel.
posted by JackFlash at 2:30 PM on June 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
So, illegal?
In the case of restaurant workers it is now illegal thanks to years of effort fighting for the rights of employees. But companies like Uber and Deliveroo are creating a whole new category of worker that is exempt from the hard fought rules for employees. They talk about "creative" destruction, but the only thing they are destroying are the rights and benefits of traditional employees. That's the innovation and its not really that novel.
posted by JackFlash at 2:30 PM on June 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Is it just me, or does the handy.com section really, really sounds like it was written by a pimp?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:44 PM on June 16, 2016
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:44 PM on June 16, 2016
Hell, handy.com sounds like a porn site catering to a certain type of consumer.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:21 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 3:21 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The next really big thing (billion-dollar tech companies) is boxes containing your food for the week, all measured out in little plastic bags containing a single basil leaf or whatever,
Without rehashing the time-as-a-feminist-issue and self-care threads, that sounds pretty great (provided they don't attempt to imitate Uber working conditions). Sign me up!
posted by Ralston McTodd at 3:36 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Without rehashing the time-as-a-feminist-issue and self-care threads, that sounds pretty great (provided they don't attempt to imitate Uber working conditions). Sign me up!
posted by Ralston McTodd at 3:36 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
It seems to be everywhere. Check out the piecemeal tech work people are doing on peopleperhour.com, where your profile gets dinged if you're not doing enough jobs or replying fast enough, or this employee finder app with the not so subtle "Could you start in 3 hours?"
There's so much freedom. Forget worrying about replying to work emails during out of office hours, worry about replying to hypothetical work emails from jobs you don't even have yet!
posted by lucidium at 3:43 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's so much freedom. Forget worrying about replying to work emails during out of office hours, worry about replying to hypothetical work emails from jobs you don't even have yet!
posted by lucidium at 3:43 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I haaaate car services because the dispatchers always lie about when the car will be there. Since I basically only use car services to take my cat to the vet (because I use the subway otherwise and hate wasting my money) it stresses me out enormously not to know when the car will arrive. I used Uber for the first time last week for this very reason and it was great. And I felt guilty. I gave him a cash tip. Stupid car services.
posted by Mavri at 4:10 PM on June 16, 2016
posted by Mavri at 4:10 PM on June 16, 2016
It's like restaurants that make the servers sit in the corner off the clock, without pay, when no customers are around.
Illegal? If you're a bartender you get around $2/hr plus tips, and if your manager wants you to stick around "just in case it picks up" you're going to make $2/hr. Not off the clock, but close.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:42 PM on June 16, 2016
Illegal? If you're a bartender you get around $2/hr plus tips, and if your manager wants you to stick around "just in case it picks up" you're going to make $2/hr. Not off the clock, but close.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:42 PM on June 16, 2016
i really like it when a company makes it easier for me not to use their service by giving themselves a name as embarrassing as deliveroo.
posted by palomar at 7:55 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by palomar at 7:55 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The reality is most of the decacorns are basically doing their disrupting in a way that is more or less designed at externalizing almost all of the costs of doing business onto the provider and the consumer.
While that's not necessarily a bad thing because I think you could make a pretty compelling business model just handling the arranging for a service and handling the transaction part of the service. Basically a decent UI front end backed up with a good credit card or digital wallet processing function. Add in some decent analytics tools and referral system and you could be offering a pretty compelling service even if it probably should be relatively low margin.
The dangerous aspect of services like Uber is that they are more or less offering discount services because the actual cost of the service is being pushed back onto the provider and because of Uber's relatively large economic power they can more or less dictate rates for all providers creating downward pressure on overall wages much of which is extracted in the form of increased profits.
That's where the primary value to investors is coming from. The reality is that acting as an electronic brokerage should be a relatively low overhead service but that doesn't drive massive market capitalization. Nope the real value of these disruptive services is that they are basically reducing the overall cost by actually getting drivers (or whoever) to compete against themselves in a race to the bottom.
Of course the reason why Uber is able to basically act in such a predatory manner is the absolute shit show that most taxi systems are in for most of the US (and presumably Canada).
Unlicensed cabs,
basically no guarantee of prompt pick up or drop off
all sorts of grifter scams being played on tourists
sketchy drivers
poor quality cabs
etc, etc
Basically all the cab horror stories are the best advertisement for Uber that there is. But the reality is that improving the cab system in most cities isn't done by pushing costs back on to independent contractors but doing a lot better job of requiring licensed quality cabs with good electronic front ends.
posted by vuron at 11:20 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
While that's not necessarily a bad thing because I think you could make a pretty compelling business model just handling the arranging for a service and handling the transaction part of the service. Basically a decent UI front end backed up with a good credit card or digital wallet processing function. Add in some decent analytics tools and referral system and you could be offering a pretty compelling service even if it probably should be relatively low margin.
The dangerous aspect of services like Uber is that they are more or less offering discount services because the actual cost of the service is being pushed back onto the provider and because of Uber's relatively large economic power they can more or less dictate rates for all providers creating downward pressure on overall wages much of which is extracted in the form of increased profits.
That's where the primary value to investors is coming from. The reality is that acting as an electronic brokerage should be a relatively low overhead service but that doesn't drive massive market capitalization. Nope the real value of these disruptive services is that they are basically reducing the overall cost by actually getting drivers (or whoever) to compete against themselves in a race to the bottom.
Of course the reason why Uber is able to basically act in such a predatory manner is the absolute shit show that most taxi systems are in for most of the US (and presumably Canada).
Unlicensed cabs,
basically no guarantee of prompt pick up or drop off
all sorts of grifter scams being played on tourists
sketchy drivers
poor quality cabs
etc, etc
Basically all the cab horror stories are the best advertisement for Uber that there is. But the reality is that improving the cab system in most cities isn't done by pushing costs back on to independent contractors but doing a lot better job of requiring licensed quality cabs with good electronic front ends.
posted by vuron at 11:20 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Illegal? If you're a bartender you get around $2/hr plus tips, and if your manager wants you to stick around "just in case it picks up" you're going to make $2/hr. Not off the clock, but close.You're still required to be paid minimum wage. If not via tips + base then your employer owes the difference.
posted by -1 at 11:49 PM on June 16, 2016
I only just realised that clownpenis.fart is not a joke that originated from Metafilter.
posted by mippy at 3:07 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mippy at 3:07 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
My business partner and I travel extensively for our small company, he more than I. He's down with all the in-demand services partly because they work the same way nearly everywhere. Figuring out the bizarre rules and other intricacies of foreign taxi services can be daunting, and sometimes carries the risk of being carted around by an incompetent or conniving driver who is better at getting "lost" and costing money than anything else.
On the other hand downloading an app and setting it up with a card has always remaining too much work for me somehow, so I generally parasite off my business partner's accounts.
Then I found myself in Chicago by myself, and had to organize my own transportation. The first cabbie I had was a young white man from Eastern Europe who, against my advice, drove us into the midst of a large outdoor demonstration that clogged the streets. While we sat hemmed in by a sea of chanting people watching the fare climb the driver gave me, and the crowd outside his window, a running monologue on which women looked best for fucking. He would ask the women to take a free ride with him, and when they ignored him, he would shout after them that they were bitches with smelly genitals. Truly, whatever nation he had come from had lost a national treasure when he came to America.
That night I had to use a taxi again. This time by driver was an elderly white man with a shockingly rotund belly squeezed into the steering wheel, a beard that looked afflicted with mange, and a personal body odour of fetid cheese and industrial-grade yeast so strong I had never encountered its equal, even among the homeless.
I rolled down the window to escape the gag-inducing cheese/yeast smell. As he drove he regaled me with a detailed narrative about the genetic shortcomings of people of colour. As our ride drew to a close it turned out he wasn't so hot on the Jews, either.
He honked with his belly and hollered with his whole head.
Upon exiting the vehicle I downloaded the damn Uber app and set up my account. Chicago finished me for taxis forever.
posted by Construction Concern at 4:29 AM on June 17, 2016
On the other hand downloading an app and setting it up with a card has always remaining too much work for me somehow, so I generally parasite off my business partner's accounts.
Then I found myself in Chicago by myself, and had to organize my own transportation. The first cabbie I had was a young white man from Eastern Europe who, against my advice, drove us into the midst of a large outdoor demonstration that clogged the streets. While we sat hemmed in by a sea of chanting people watching the fare climb the driver gave me, and the crowd outside his window, a running monologue on which women looked best for fucking. He would ask the women to take a free ride with him, and when they ignored him, he would shout after them that they were bitches with smelly genitals. Truly, whatever nation he had come from had lost a national treasure when he came to America.
That night I had to use a taxi again. This time by driver was an elderly white man with a shockingly rotund belly squeezed into the steering wheel, a beard that looked afflicted with mange, and a personal body odour of fetid cheese and industrial-grade yeast so strong I had never encountered its equal, even among the homeless.
I rolled down the window to escape the gag-inducing cheese/yeast smell. As he drove he regaled me with a detailed narrative about the genetic shortcomings of people of colour. As our ride drew to a close it turned out he wasn't so hot on the Jews, either.
He honked with his belly and hollered with his whole head.
Upon exiting the vehicle I downloaded the damn Uber app and set up my account. Chicago finished me for taxis forever.
posted by Construction Concern at 4:29 AM on June 17, 2016
I can't tell-- are we pretending that the traditional taxi drivers who are required to rent their cars from the taxi company, where a large chunk of their pay goes straight into the pocket of the medallion owner, who can actually lose money while working if they don't manage to hustle enough, are not being exploited?
posted by alexei at 7:05 PM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by alexei at 7:05 PM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
No, but Uber offers subprime auto leases to its drivers through a third party and deducts payments from their fares automatically, so they're hardly better on that front.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:06 PM on June 17, 2016
posted by en forme de poire at 9:06 PM on June 17, 2016
To expand slightly most people who drive for Uber or Lyft end up buying, leasing, or renting a car specifically for that purpose. Uber vehicles have to meet certain standards for appearance (<10yo, 4 doors, no major wear and tear/dents/etc); if you don't have a car that satisfies those criteria, you need to get one somehow, and since most people can't afford to buy a new car full-on they end up making some kind of monthly/weekly payment. Plus you pay for your own maintenance, gas, insurance, and tolls. So Uber drivers can absolutely get into debt if they don't manage to hustle enough. And that's all before you get into the employee/contractor thing, which is the real pernicious difference from traditional cab drivers.
(This is the subprime lending thing I was talking about above btw.)
posted by en forme de poire at 1:29 AM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
(This is the subprime lending thing I was talking about above btw.)
posted by en forme de poire at 1:29 AM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Illegal? If even a fraction of the illegal stuff that goes on in a day in the restaurant business was actually addressed in the courts, the legal system would be brought to its knees so hard it would shatter the floor. It's possibly the best example of de facto/de jure in the U.S.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:14 AM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:14 AM on June 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
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