The Perfect, Perfect Corned Beef
June 21, 2016 6:36 PM Subscribe
How to make corned beef.
Salt inhibits microbial growth by plasmolysis. In other words, water is drawn out of the microbial cell by osmosis due to the higher concentration of salt outside the cell. A cell loses water until it reaches a state first where it cannot grow and cannot survive any longer... Dry salting, also called corning originated in Anglo-Saxon cultures. Meat was dry-cured with coarse "corns" or pellets of salt. Corned beef of Irish fame is made from a beef brisket, although any cut of meat can be corned. Salt brine curing involves the creation of brine containing salt, water and other ingredients such as sugar, erythorbate, or nitrites.
Nitrite is consumed in the diet, through vegetables and drinking water. It is also added to meat products as a preservative.The potential risks (pdf) of this practice are balanced against the unique protective effect against toxin-forming bacteria such as Clostridium botulinum.
Take it a step further and turn that corned beef into pastrami.
Salt inhibits microbial growth by plasmolysis. In other words, water is drawn out of the microbial cell by osmosis due to the higher concentration of salt outside the cell. A cell loses water until it reaches a state first where it cannot grow and cannot survive any longer... Dry salting, also called corning originated in Anglo-Saxon cultures. Meat was dry-cured with coarse "corns" or pellets of salt. Corned beef of Irish fame is made from a beef brisket, although any cut of meat can be corned. Salt brine curing involves the creation of brine containing salt, water and other ingredients such as sugar, erythorbate, or nitrites.
Nitrite is consumed in the diet, through vegetables and drinking water. It is also added to meat products as a preservative.The potential risks (pdf) of this practice are balanced against the unique protective effect against toxin-forming bacteria such as Clostridium botulinum.
Take it a step further and turn that corned beef into pastrami.
In this range, I submit, from ChefSteps:
Their impressive-to-watch 120 pound pastrami & (Video)
One Reuben to Rule Them All (Corned Beef recipe & reuben challenge)
Sous-vide Pastrami
posted by CrystalDave at 7:10 PM on June 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Their impressive-to-watch 120 pound pastrami & (Video)
One Reuben to Rule Them All (Corned Beef recipe & reuben challenge)
Sous-vide Pastrami
posted by CrystalDave at 7:10 PM on June 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
... turn that corned beef into pastrami.
"The Pastrami article demonstrates how to dry cure, season, and smoke a fresh beef brisket flat to create this deli classic. But is there a way to shortcut the long dry curing process?"
NO THERE IS NOT. Smoked corned beef is not the same thing as pastrami, dammit!
also, grilling is not "barbecue" but don't get me goddamn started
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:12 PM on June 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
"The Pastrami article demonstrates how to dry cure, season, and smoke a fresh beef brisket flat to create this deli classic. But is there a way to shortcut the long dry curing process?"
NO THERE IS NOT. Smoked corned beef is not the same thing as pastrami, dammit!
also, grilling is not "barbecue" but don't get me goddamn started
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:12 PM on June 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
We made some barbecue on the grill today.
posted by Max Power at 7:31 PM on June 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Max Power at 7:31 PM on June 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
also, grilling is not "barbecue" but don't get me goddamn started
'Course it is mate. Chuck a few chops on a grill, crack a slab, it's a barbie.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 7:32 PM on June 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
'Course it is mate. Chuck a few chops on a grill, crack a slab, it's a barbie.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 7:32 PM on June 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Smoked corned beef is not the same thing as pastrami, dammit!
Actually, it is (assuming you've added the the rub during smoking, of course). That's precisely what pastrami is.
posted by Michael Tellurian at 8:06 PM on June 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Actually, it is (assuming you've added the the rub during smoking, of course). That's precisely what pastrami is.
posted by Michael Tellurian at 8:06 PM on June 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
My wife loves corned beef hash. I may have to try this. I loved this presentation, and this guy was so compelling. Count me in!
posted by Chuffy at 8:14 PM on June 21, 2016
posted by Chuffy at 8:14 PM on June 21, 2016
I audibly gasped when he cut into it while it was still hot. I just need to figure out where in Orlando I can get salt peter.
posted by synthetik at 8:47 PM on June 21, 2016
posted by synthetik at 8:47 PM on June 21, 2016
What was that song he sang?
Corn Me by Tuna Quark.
posted by Thella at 8:53 PM on June 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Corn Me by Tuna Quark.
posted by Thella at 8:53 PM on June 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't use saltpeter, use Prague Powder Number 1 which is the name given to a pink-dyed mix of salt and sodium nitrate; it's a lot more pure and consistent than saltpeter. You can buy it on Amazon for cheap.
Then cook Ruhlman's pastrami recipe, and thank me when you awake from your food coma.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:55 PM on June 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Then cook Ruhlman's pastrami recipe, and thank me when you awake from your food coma.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:55 PM on June 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
(That's exactly what I did for my birthday three weeks ago, and it was pretty much my best birthday ever. Homemade pastrami on rye with good mustard and cel-ray, god damn)
posted by Itaxpica at 8:56 PM on June 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 8:56 PM on June 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also buying Sodium Nitrate instead of Potassium Nitrate won't get you on who knows what watch list (Potassium Nitrate is one of the three ingredients in black gun powder).
posted by Mitheral at 9:51 PM on June 21, 2016
posted by Mitheral at 9:51 PM on June 21, 2016
Actually, it is (assuming you've added the the rub during smoking, of course). That's precisely what pastrami is.
Pretty sure it's not, based on what I've read (and tasted) of each so far in my life.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:53 PM on June 21, 2016
Pretty sure it's not, based on what I've read (and tasted) of each so far in my life.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:53 PM on June 21, 2016
We made some barbecue on the grill today.
Chuck a few chops on a grill, crack a slab, it's a barbie.
You are sorely testing me, and I will not have it.
*shakes finger in righteous indignation
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:57 PM on June 21, 2016
Chuck a few chops on a grill, crack a slab, it's a barbie.
You are sorely testing me, and I will not have it.
*shakes finger in righteous indignation
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:57 PM on June 21, 2016
It's good with pig meat too. Porkstrami is amazing stuff.
posted by peeedro at 10:06 PM on June 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 10:06 PM on June 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fascinating. I only have a vague concept of corned beef, and it's something cheap and not regarded very well by, well, anyone. This looks amazing, though a lot of work and time is involved.
posted by zardoz at 10:08 PM on June 21, 2016
posted by zardoz at 10:08 PM on June 21, 2016
Greg_Ace, I've made both. The process is exactly the same - both are brisket brined in a sodium nitrate solution. Corned beef is then steamed as is, while pastrami is rubbed with coriander and black pepper and smoked. The spice rub and smoking makes a huge difference in flavor. The seasonings in the brine may also vary (seasonings in pastrami brine tend towards the spicier side), which can affect final flavor, but they don't necessarily have to and often aren't.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:13 PM on June 21, 2016
posted by Itaxpica at 10:13 PM on June 21, 2016
I've made both.
So have I - once starting with beef treated with a typical corned beef brine then dry-rubbed and smoked, and once dry-rubbed with no prior brining. They weren't even in the same ballpark; the dry-rubbed version tasted like real pastrami from a proper NY deli, whereas the meat that was brined first emphatically did not even come close (though it was better than the boiled/steamed version). Personal research and experience trumps the tale of an Internet stranger for me, at least in this case.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:40 PM on June 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
So have I - once starting with beef treated with a typical corned beef brine then dry-rubbed and smoked, and once dry-rubbed with no prior brining. They weren't even in the same ballpark; the dry-rubbed version tasted like real pastrami from a proper NY deli, whereas the meat that was brined first emphatically did not even come close (though it was better than the boiled/steamed version). Personal research and experience trumps the tale of an Internet stranger for me, at least in this case.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:40 PM on June 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Itaxpica, Greg_Ace, I can solve this for you. You both just need to make your versions of pastrami and corned beef and send them to me and I'll let you know. Trust me.
posted by dazed_one at 11:55 PM on June 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by dazed_one at 11:55 PM on June 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
Real pastrami is pink/red the whole way through is not? Therefore it is cured.
posted by JPD at 3:43 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by JPD at 3:43 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
You are sorely testing me, and I will not have it.
Ha hahaha classic Greg he's funny as ay. Oi, you want onions on this sanga?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:35 AM on June 22, 2016
Ha hahaha classic Greg he's funny as ay. Oi, you want onions on this sanga?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:35 AM on June 22, 2016
I have made corned beef and pastrami numerous times using various modernist techniques. Here are a few examples: ChefSteps Pastrami and ChefSteps Corned Beef. In my experience, a pastrami brine is not quite the same as a corned beef brine, and of course the smoking and spice rub further differentiate pastrami from corned beef.
Some tips and tricks:
1. For those who don't have a smoker but want to make pastrami, a hefty glug of high quality liquid smoke in the brine will give your pastrami a nice smoky flavor.
2. Especially for larger cuts, injection brining can really speed up the process.
3. Vacuum sealing the meat with the brine, or even just sealing it in an extra-large ziplock, makes it easy to store in the refrigerator and also eliminates the need to weigh the meet down to keep it fully submerged.
4. The curing salt you're looking for is called Instacure #1, also sometimes called Prague Powder #1.
5. If you have the capability of doing sous vide cooking, you can get an amazing result by cold smoking the pastrami for several hours without really cooking it, and then bagging it and cooking it sous vide for 48 hours.
6. Short ribs make amazing corned beef and pastrami. Get a whole plate and pull out the bones.
posted by slkinsey at 5:24 AM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some tips and tricks:
1. For those who don't have a smoker but want to make pastrami, a hefty glug of high quality liquid smoke in the brine will give your pastrami a nice smoky flavor.
2. Especially for larger cuts, injection brining can really speed up the process.
3. Vacuum sealing the meat with the brine, or even just sealing it in an extra-large ziplock, makes it easy to store in the refrigerator and also eliminates the need to weigh the meet down to keep it fully submerged.
4. The curing salt you're looking for is called Instacure #1, also sometimes called Prague Powder #1.
5. If you have the capability of doing sous vide cooking, you can get an amazing result by cold smoking the pastrami for several hours without really cooking it, and then bagging it and cooking it sous vide for 48 hours.
6. Short ribs make amazing corned beef and pastrami. Get a whole plate and pull out the bones.
posted by slkinsey at 5:24 AM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
the dry-rubbed version tasted like real pastrami from a proper NY deli, whereas the meat that was brined first emphatically did not even come close (though it was better than the boiled/steamed version). Personal research and experience trumps the tale of an Internet stranger for me, at least in this case.
As a 25 year regular at Katz's, I'm going to land in the camp that says the dry-rubbed version that wasn't brined may have been delicious, and you may have preferred it over the brined version, but it wasn't echte pastrami. Pastrami is a product that is cured by brining, and this isn't even a particularly strict or orthodox criterion (I'm not suggesting it isn't pastrami unless it's made with beef navel, for example). Some people may be confused, however, by your terminology of "dry rub." I gather that your pastrami is dry cured, not dry rubbed. Most people would take the latter to mean that you simply applied a spice crust and went to the smoker.
posted by slkinsey at 5:33 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
As a 25 year regular at Katz's, I'm going to land in the camp that says the dry-rubbed version that wasn't brined may have been delicious, and you may have preferred it over the brined version, but it wasn't echte pastrami. Pastrami is a product that is cured by brining, and this isn't even a particularly strict or orthodox criterion (I'm not suggesting it isn't pastrami unless it's made with beef navel, for example). Some people may be confused, however, by your terminology of "dry rub." I gather that your pastrami is dry cured, not dry rubbed. Most people would take the latter to mean that you simply applied a spice crust and went to the smoker.
posted by slkinsey at 5:33 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you want to make some corned beef at home, Morton salt makes a product called "Tender Quick", which is a mix of salt, and the necessary nitrates in a reasonable premix. Despite the name, there are no tenderizing agents in the mix.
It comes in a blue paper bag and is usually on the bottom shelf of the spice aisle, with the other specialty salts. Directions for corned beef are available on Morton's web site.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 5:36 AM on June 22, 2016
It comes in a blue paper bag and is usually on the bottom shelf of the spice aisle, with the other specialty salts. Directions for corned beef are available on Morton's web site.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 5:36 AM on June 22, 2016
I've yet to figure out why the budget corned beef at the supermarket is more expensive than the cheap ham or chicken slices despite the fact that decades of successive horse/BSE scares have pushed down the price of beef. Have my suspicions (woo capitalism!) but don't mean to dead goat the thread.
posted by comealongpole at 5:38 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by comealongpole at 5:38 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
grilling is not "barbecue"
It is if you put the lid down.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 5:49 AM on June 22, 2016
It is if you put the lid down.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 5:49 AM on June 22, 2016
Just n'thing the suggestions to use Instacure #1/Prague Powder Number #1; way easier to work with and is typically far more reliable in its outcomes. It's easy to get online (I mean, I guess saltpeter is too?) but it's usually pretty easy to find if you live somewhere with a smokehouse or butcher shop that makes their own bacon. If you have a halfway decent relationship with your butcher, they'll either give or sell you some at a laughingly low price compared to internet retailers.
My butcher is awesome.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:35 AM on June 22, 2016
My butcher is awesome.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:35 AM on June 22, 2016
grilling is not "barbecue"
It is if you put the lid down.
And lower the heat. Barbecue = "low and slow".
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:14 AM on June 22, 2016
It is if you put the lid down.
And lower the heat. Barbecue = "low and slow".
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:14 AM on June 22, 2016
Greg, I'm with you all the way, but I'm afraid there are some folks here who are either jerking your chain or are just philistines. On the internet it can be hard to tell.
posted by TedW at 9:37 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by TedW at 9:37 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, I know. I was just feeling puckish and decided to tweak back.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
smoked brisket covered in spices isn't pastrami. Full stop. Its like calling the sky green.
posted by JPD at 11:15 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by JPD at 11:15 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
When I lived in Malawi, I found myself craving corned beef hash. I went to a shop in town that carried a great many obscure goods that were pleasing to Westerners' palates. There, on the shelf, was a tin of imported corned beef, costing about $15--this at a time when I had very little money to spare. Right next to it was a local product with the dubious appellation "corned meat"; the ingredients list was equally vague, but the price was right.
To this day I regret not turning to Metafilter's "Can I eat this?" subsite for advice.
posted by duffell at 11:46 AM on June 22, 2016
To this day I regret not turning to Metafilter's "Can I eat this?" subsite for advice.
posted by duffell at 11:46 AM on June 22, 2016
We need to get Scott Rea to shake hands with Donald Trump and use the photographs of the event to drive the short-fingered one to collapse.
posted by howfar at 4:13 PM on June 22, 2016
posted by howfar at 4:13 PM on June 22, 2016
I think the Reuben is the closest thing to sandwich perfection there is. Sometimes I end up browsing pictures of them online without realising it. One Sunday evening last year I had a serious Reuben craving, but being in Ireland late on a Sunday I felt I had no options but to make one from scratch. This extended to the bread - there's an amazing type of bread in Waterford where I grew up called a blaa, which was brought over by French Huguenots (along with their goats) which again, is unavailable in Dublin on a Sunday evening. I can't remember whether I used Comté or Emmental, but I definitely put in some Taleggio for some salty, extra-creamy bite.
Here's how I got on.
The bread was literally straight out of the oven and tasted amazingly fresh, warm, dense, and doughy. The pictures can't capture anything like how good this sandwich was. It was all about the journey.
I presume there's some kind of compound German word to describe having an inbuilt skill due to your ancestry, for example the first time I ever tried to make Irish stew it was perfect and tasted exactly like my grandmother's, even though I was a lousy cook at the time. This was only my second or third time making blaas (which maked it the second or third time I baked anything ever), and every time they were baker quality.
When I lived in Berkeley I had a Reuben in Saul's but in true California hippy fashion they ruined the Reuben by making it small and lean and organic and healthy.
I read this great article a few days ago about New York pastrami vs Montreal smoked meat that goes into a lot of detail. One day I'll complete a pilgrimage of the whole Hudson-St Lawrence area, devouring as I go.
posted by kersplunk at 3:32 AM on June 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's how I got on.
The bread was literally straight out of the oven and tasted amazingly fresh, warm, dense, and doughy. The pictures can't capture anything like how good this sandwich was. It was all about the journey.
I presume there's some kind of compound German word to describe having an inbuilt skill due to your ancestry, for example the first time I ever tried to make Irish stew it was perfect and tasted exactly like my grandmother's, even though I was a lousy cook at the time. This was only my second or third time making blaas (which maked it the second or third time I baked anything ever), and every time they were baker quality.
When I lived in Berkeley I had a Reuben in Saul's but in true California hippy fashion they ruined the Reuben by making it small and lean and organic and healthy.
I read this great article a few days ago about New York pastrami vs Montreal smoked meat that goes into a lot of detail. One day I'll complete a pilgrimage of the whole Hudson-St Lawrence area, devouring as I go.
posted by kersplunk at 3:32 AM on June 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm afraid there are some folks here who are either jerking your chain or are just philistines
Your tears make a delicious salty-sweet marinade for this chicken, which I'm going to barbecue, by which I mean throw on a hot plate over a gas fire for a few minutes on each side.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 5:35 PM on June 23, 2016
Your tears make a delicious salty-sweet marinade for this chicken, which I'm going to barbecue, by which I mean throw on a hot plate over a gas fire for a few minutes on each side.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 5:35 PM on June 23, 2016
I think the Reuben is the closest thing to sandwich perfection there is.
I realize it is an asymptotic curve, but a pastrami Reuben gets you a smidge closer to sandwich nirvana.
posted by TedW at 9:02 PM on June 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I realize it is an asymptotic curve, but a pastrami Reuben gets you a smidge closer to sandwich nirvana.
posted by TedW at 9:02 PM on June 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
which I'm going to barbecue, by which I mean throw on a hot plate over a gas fire for a few minutes on each side.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:50 AM on June 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:50 AM on June 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
« Older The Satoshi Affair | Help has arrived Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by shockingbluamp at 6:48 PM on June 21, 2016