16 year-old-me would probably be disappointed w/39 year-old me
June 22, 2016 9:40 AM Subscribe
The secret of taste: why we like what we like (slTheGuardianlongread)
37 year-old me would like to team up with 16 year-old me to hunt down 17 year-old me and 20 year-old me and kick their dumbshit asses. Then we'd totally rock out to some Mighty Mighty Bosstones together.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:01 AM on June 22, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:01 AM on June 22, 2016 [27 favorites]
We live in a time of ferocious technological and social change. Sixteen-year-old me had no tools to even speak about what preferences I have now, how I work, even how I spend much of my leisure time. New technology can bring new experiences, new sports, new forms of art and music, and so new opportunities to grow our interests. I don't think anyone can be expected to understand what our lives will be like even a couple of decades from now.
posted by bonehead at 10:03 AM on June 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 10:03 AM on June 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
16-year-old me would be happy with some of my life, meh about others, but then she was dealing with some shit at the time and wasn't really worrying about where she'd be in 30 years.
She and I would both agree that our love of ABBA is justified.
posted by emjaybee at 10:08 AM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
She and I would both agree that our love of ABBA is justified.
posted by emjaybee at 10:08 AM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
hmm
well, most of my leisure is still internet and video games. Star Wars has been replaced by Game of Thrones, and Lego by Pens and Leathercraft. Oh, and playing in a band has been replaced by riding my bike. School -> Work, but very similar atmosphere.
posted by rebent at 10:09 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
well, most of my leisure is still internet and video games. Star Wars has been replaced by Game of Thrones, and Lego by Pens and Leathercraft. Oh, and playing in a band has been replaced by riding my bike. School -> Work, but very similar atmosphere.
posted by rebent at 10:09 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
19-year-old me would've been mortified to discover that he would one day quite happily listen to Veruca Salt and Letters to Cleo (albeit by delivery mechanisms he would never have anticipated). Technology has allowed me to become such a sellout. The "hipster effect," mentioned in TFA, meanwhile reminded me of the classic King Missile take on the whole matter.
posted by Sonny Jim at 10:14 AM on June 22, 2016
posted by Sonny Jim at 10:14 AM on June 22, 2016
16-year old me would probably mostly think I suck but he'd be impressed that I can play the bass line to "Roundabout"
posted by thelonius at 10:19 AM on June 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 10:19 AM on June 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
5-year-old me tried a black olive and thought it was the most disgusting thing ever. My father told me that it was an acquired taste and that if I ate one every day I would enjoy them within a week. And so, each evening he fed me an olive and Dad was proven correct within about 5 days. That experience has served me well ever since, across a variety of art, music, food, people, etc. Look harder, go deeper.
posted by carmicha at 10:21 AM on June 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 10:21 AM on June 22, 2016 [40 favorites]
I'm 48, which is old enough not to give a shit what any 16-year-old thinks of me, even if that 16-year-old was me.
That being said, 16-year-old me would be thoroughly unsurprised at the current me. I'm very much just an older version of him.
posted by maxsparber at 10:23 AM on June 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
That being said, 16-year-old me would be thoroughly unsurprised at the current me. I'm very much just an older version of him.
posted by maxsparber at 10:23 AM on June 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
[Learning about acquired tastes] has served me well ever since, across a variety of art, music, food, people, etc.
Caveat: does not work vis-a-vis politics. Especially Trump.
posted by carmicha at 10:25 AM on June 22, 2016
Caveat: does not work vis-a-vis politics. Especially Trump.
posted by carmicha at 10:25 AM on June 22, 2016
16-year old me would be horrified that I have a minivan, a desk job, and a suburban house. Sigh.
posted by fimbulvetr at 10:30 AM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 10:30 AM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was a very Gothy teen and while I still wear a lot of black, there is so much more colour in my adult wardrobe from age 30 on that even I remain surprised by it now and again.
(Also, 16 year old me was a cutter and depressed; I hope she would be pleased that now me can afford therapy and has someone who loves me for who I am, instead of taking up with any asshole that paid her attention.)
posted by Kitteh at 10:38 AM on June 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
(Also, 16 year old me was a cutter and depressed; I hope she would be pleased that now me can afford therapy and has someone who loves me for who I am, instead of taking up with any asshole that paid her attention.)
posted by Kitteh at 10:38 AM on June 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh wow, 16 year-old me. I think 16 year-old me would defintely recognise me, be pleased I was still here, disappointed at how little I'd achieved (in the sense of personal goals, never in the eyes of the wider world), plus I'd definitely have to explain why I've read so many of The Books, yet somehow not All The Books. Worst of all, depending on which day we crossed paths there's a non-zero chance I'd have to answer the question "Dude... is that my T-shirt?"
We could totally bond over how painting Warhammer figures properly is just too much effort though.
(I love you 16 yr-old me)
posted by comealongpole at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
We could totally bond over how painting Warhammer figures properly is just too much effort though.
(I love you 16 yr-old me)
posted by comealongpole at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
16-year-old me was just too self-conscious to really get into much - music, hobbies, any form of self-expression - out of fear of liking the wrong stuff and being seen as too weird or a social outcast. Sometimes I want to go back in time and give her a stack of mixtapes and tell her she's cool and interesting just as she is, just do whatever and have fun.
16-year-old me wouldn't listen, because she'd want to know how many bestsellers I'd written and if I would ever have a boyfriend, and she'd play one side of one tape and let the others gather dust and feel bad about it. Oh my god, get it together, 16-year-old me.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:47 AM on June 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
16-year-old me wouldn't listen, because she'd want to know how many bestsellers I'd written and if I would ever have a boyfriend, and she'd play one side of one tape and let the others gather dust and feel bad about it. Oh my god, get it together, 16-year-old me.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:47 AM on June 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
16-year-old me would definitely say to 40-year-old me "holy shit you live in France?! That is awesome!!!"
She would also approve of the cats, but ask why I haven't yet adopted a dog. (Work schedule.)
She would be delighted that the technology exists to easily keep in touch with friends across oceans.
As for career, whoa. I had no idea what I was going to do for a career growing up. My 16-year-old self would be fascinated by the career I eventually found in something that didn't formally exist until about a decade ago (functional testing). She would then be dubious that I went into management, run multi-department meetings and give hour-long presentations, because I was absolute rubbish at anything to do with public speaking well into university.
posted by fraula at 10:50 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
She would also approve of the cats, but ask why I haven't yet adopted a dog. (Work schedule.)
She would be delighted that the technology exists to easily keep in touch with friends across oceans.
As for career, whoa. I had no idea what I was going to do for a career growing up. My 16-year-old self would be fascinated by the career I eventually found in something that didn't formally exist until about a decade ago (functional testing). She would then be dubious that I went into management, run multi-department meetings and give hour-long presentations, because I was absolute rubbish at anything to do with public speaking well into university.
posted by fraula at 10:50 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, 16-year- old me totally believed she would have written a string of successful horror novels and be living in the French Quarter by now. And the interior design of her home would look as you can imagine a 16-year-old Goth would want it to look, because nothing about that never dates itself at all, no sirree.
posted by Kitteh at 10:51 AM on June 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 10:51 AM on June 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
The argument against things being 'acquired tastes' kind of threw me. What they describe is exactly how I would define an acquired taste. Something that requires some context and/or adjustment to fully appreciate.
That's been something that hits me over and over, how many of the things that I was put off by initially end up being some of my favorites, usually after I've had some time to let them sink in and understand them.
If that's not acquired taste, what is?
posted by ernielundquist at 10:51 AM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
That's been something that hits me over and over, how many of the things that I was put off by initially end up being some of my favorites, usually after I've had some time to let them sink in and understand them.
If that's not acquired taste, what is?
posted by ernielundquist at 10:51 AM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm in the same boat, ernielundquist.
We come to like beer, but it is arguably wrong to call beer an “acquired taste”, as the philosopher Daniel Dennett argues, because it is not that first taste that people are coming to like... In a New Yorker profile, the music producer Rick Rubin recounted that when he first heard Pretty Hate Machine, the album by Nine Inch Nails, he did not care for it. But it soon became his favourite... The album, like the beer, was not an acquired taste, because he was not hearing the same album.
This sounds like a situation in which the album (beer) hasn't changed, the person experiencing it has, through a change in experience, context, etc. Maybe I just need to go find out what Dennett is saying firsthand.
posted by schnellp at 11:00 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
We come to like beer, but it is arguably wrong to call beer an “acquired taste”, as the philosopher Daniel Dennett argues, because it is not that first taste that people are coming to like... In a New Yorker profile, the music producer Rick Rubin recounted that when he first heard Pretty Hate Machine, the album by Nine Inch Nails, he did not care for it. But it soon became his favourite... The album, like the beer, was not an acquired taste, because he was not hearing the same album.
This sounds like a situation in which the album (beer) hasn't changed, the person experiencing it has, through a change in experience, context, etc. Maybe I just need to go find out what Dennett is saying firsthand.
posted by schnellp at 11:00 AM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh jeez. I'm trans and 41, and 16 year old me would be ecstatic for me. I'm getting choked up thinking about it.
posted by AFABulous at 11:22 AM on June 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 11:22 AM on June 22, 2016 [30 favorites]
I looked it up and the expanded quote doesn't really clear much up for me. And I don't want to read this whole thing because it looks educational.
The only thing that makes hot take sense to me is that it's some sort of postmodernist argument, along the lines of Ramses II couldn't have died from tuberculosis because tuberculosis hadn't been described yet. It just strikes me as a strange question to beg for that article.
And that would argue against the existence of acquired tastes as a whole. So it's not just wrong to describe beer and Pretty Hate Machine as acquired tastes, but to describe anything that way.
posted by ernielundquist at 11:33 AM on June 22, 2016
The only thing that makes hot take sense to me is that it's some sort of postmodernist argument, along the lines of Ramses II couldn't have died from tuberculosis because tuberculosis hadn't been described yet. It just strikes me as a strange question to beg for that article.
And that would argue against the existence of acquired tastes as a whole. So it's not just wrong to describe beer and Pretty Hate Machine as acquired tastes, but to describe anything that way.
posted by ernielundquist at 11:33 AM on June 22, 2016
(16-year-old me to 42-year-old me):
"WAIT YOU LISTEN TO MUSIC RECORDED BEFORE 1978??! WHAT A PUTZ!"
posted by saintjoe at 11:54 AM on June 22, 2016
"WAIT YOU LISTEN TO MUSIC RECORDED BEFORE 1978??! WHAT A PUTZ!"
posted by saintjoe at 11:54 AM on June 22, 2016
17-year-old me would be appalled that 47-year-old me has decided his younger sister was pretty much right about every disagreement they had about music.
posted by straight at 12:02 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 12:02 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
16 year old me would be thrilled to see that 48 year old me still attends metal concerts. 16 year old me might be shocked that it's mostly the same bands though.
Also, just this morning Van Halen I popped up on random album play on my commute - released in 1978, so 38 years ago. 38 years prior to 1978 was 1940 and Bing Crosby and Glenn Miller dominated the charts. That seems like a much bigger shift in tastes (1940 to 1978) than we've seen from 78 to today. But maybe I can't be objective.
posted by COD at 12:03 PM on June 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, just this morning Van Halen I popped up on random album play on my commute - released in 1978, so 38 years ago. 38 years prior to 1978 was 1940 and Bing Crosby and Glenn Miller dominated the charts. That seems like a much bigger shift in tastes (1940 to 1978) than we've seen from 78 to today. But maybe I can't be objective.
posted by COD at 12:03 PM on June 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have said many times over the past few years that my present self is living the exact life my 16-year-old self would have imagined.
And that my 16-year-old self was an idiot.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:14 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
And that my 16-year-old self was an idiot.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:14 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure that my tastes have changed a whole lot since 1980. The computer games I'm playing are a lot fancier and I'm listening to The Clash on Google Play instead of vinyl but other than that, I'm still the same geek.
posted by octothorpe at 12:15 PM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:15 PM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think I like the same things I would like if I were 16 right now, in 2016. I think 2016 16-year-old me would be less interested in comics than I was, but obsessed with shows like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Luther, Gotham, etc. He might be more attuned to popular music than I am now; the genres that spoke to me most as a teen are moribund now, but I could see being a kid and being really into Run the Jewels or something...stuff I like now, but am not super into. That "into" quality I think may itself be a condition of youth.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:17 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:17 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
When I think about these things I think about these "old guy" DJs or tastemakers and musicians and I don't get scared. Brian Eno and David Byrne and Bowie all had taste even as they got older. Prince did too. John Peel? I mean, Kanye West isn't "old" (he's 39) but he's older than most of the people I know and when I see him sampling stuff like Arthur Russell I'm like "damn that's what's up that's a really fresh take."
Right now a lot of people my age (27) are coming to terms with the hilarity of the music a lot of us listened to in our youth. We liked it back then, and we still like it now. The only difference is who we are now vs. who we were then, and how we dressed and who our friends were and what was going on in our lives. Like the girl who use to wear all black with a bunch of colorful bracelets around her wrists, dyed black hair and tons of black eye makeup that'd blast Simple Plan and Good Charlotte on the bus home from school. That girl is now a woman and she's pursuing a microbiology masters degree and I just saw her at emo night where we yelled My Chemical Romance lyrics at the top of our lungs. I definitely look back at being 16, 17, etc. and think "damn wtf was I thinking?" but I still unabashedly love the music. My tastes have evolved but they didn't necessarily change. And as much as there is a nostalgic aspect to it that doesn't mean I don't like it. When I'm 40 if I have kids one of the things I'm most excited about is to talk music with them. A lot of people may roll their eyes at that but so many of my friends have been influenced by the music their parents liked, me included. It's exciting.
Mostly I can't wait to show my kids Future ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by gucci mane at 12:21 PM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Right now a lot of people my age (27) are coming to terms with the hilarity of the music a lot of us listened to in our youth. We liked it back then, and we still like it now. The only difference is who we are now vs. who we were then, and how we dressed and who our friends were and what was going on in our lives. Like the girl who use to wear all black with a bunch of colorful bracelets around her wrists, dyed black hair and tons of black eye makeup that'd blast Simple Plan and Good Charlotte on the bus home from school. That girl is now a woman and she's pursuing a microbiology masters degree and I just saw her at emo night where we yelled My Chemical Romance lyrics at the top of our lungs. I definitely look back at being 16, 17, etc. and think "damn wtf was I thinking?" but I still unabashedly love the music. My tastes have evolved but they didn't necessarily change. And as much as there is a nostalgic aspect to it that doesn't mean I don't like it. When I'm 40 if I have kids one of the things I'm most excited about is to talk music with them. A lot of people may roll their eyes at that but so many of my friends have been influenced by the music their parents liked, me included. It's exciting.
Mostly I can't wait to show my kids Future ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by gucci mane at 12:21 PM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
A couple years ago, I got a letter forwarded to me by my parents. It was from me, 15 years prior. I'd forgotten that we had a health class in high school that made us do one of those silly "Dear Future Me" projects. Amongst a general sense of agreement over musical taste (though 16-year-old me probably could have done with less 80's hair metal), I was shocked to learn that 16-year-old me had accurately predicted my college major, occupation, and city of residence.
16-year-old me was also clinically depressed and as-yet-unmedicated, and probably saw this as a horrible but inevitable outcome. Hell if I remember. Either way, high-five for making it through high school, 16-year-old me. That wretched teacher you hate so much will be dead before 32-year-old you reads the letter.
posted by Mayor West at 12:21 PM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
16-year-old me was also clinically depressed and as-yet-unmedicated, and probably saw this as a horrible but inevitable outcome. Hell if I remember. Either way, high-five for making it through high school, 16-year-old me. That wretched teacher you hate so much will be dead before 32-year-old you reads the letter.
posted by Mayor West at 12:21 PM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Would love to go back to 16 (1954) and do it all again.
But it could never happen in today's USA.
Instead of hugely successful (relatively), I would probably be one of today's homeless.
posted by notreally at 12:53 PM on June 22, 2016
But it could never happen in today's USA.
Instead of hugely successful (relatively), I would probably be one of today's homeless.
posted by notreally at 12:53 PM on June 22, 2016
16-year-old me would be envious of my current car. So I guess my tastes haven't changed much, only my income.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:58 PM on June 22, 2016
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:58 PM on June 22, 2016
Also, I still listen to the same music genres (plus a couple more), and he'd be envious of my current easy access to such a huge variety of music.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:04 PM on June 22, 2016
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:04 PM on June 22, 2016
I still like just about everything I liked as a kid. I just like a whole lot of other stuff now, too.
posted by jonmc at 1:37 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 1:37 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
My tastes were pretty similar, but I'd have been appalled that I wasn't partaking in them more.
"There are superhero movies all over the place, and more than half a dozen superhero TV shows and you're only watching a few of the movies and none of the shows? And you're not reading any comics? And there are dozens of new F/SF novels out every month and you're only reading a few a year? And there are TV shows based on F/SF novel series that you're not watching either? What did you find to watch/read/play instead?"
"...not much, to be honest."
I'd probably wonder if I'd turned into my dad, who doesn't have much use for this "fiction" idea, and isn't that interested in most non-fiction either.
posted by Four Ds at 1:55 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
"There are superhero movies all over the place, and more than half a dozen superhero TV shows and you're only watching a few of the movies and none of the shows? And you're not reading any comics? And there are dozens of new F/SF novels out every month and you're only reading a few a year? And there are TV shows based on F/SF novel series that you're not watching either? What did you find to watch/read/play instead?"
"...not much, to be honest."
I'd probably wonder if I'd turned into my dad, who doesn't have much use for this "fiction" idea, and isn't that interested in most non-fiction either.
posted by Four Ds at 1:55 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
16-year-old me would be horrified to see that I had only aged lightly, shattering that youthful hope that I would age not at all. (Other than that, 16-year-old me would be very pleased)
posted by anonymisc at 1:58 PM on June 22, 2016
posted by anonymisc at 1:58 PM on June 22, 2016
16 year old me is surprised and impressed by the fact I'm alive, safe, happy and loved.
Sense of foreshortened future is a real thing.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:17 PM on June 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Sense of foreshortened future is a real thing.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:17 PM on June 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
16 year old me [“16yom”] is secretly pleased that 46 year old me [“46yom”] can still remember all those Z80 opcodes that 16yom spent his evenings learning. Meanwhile, 46yom is gesticulating at 16yom and yelling something about ADHD, but 16yom found something shiny and wandered off.
46yom stands bereft, and would have swapped even those precious opcodes for decades of feeling less stupid and alone.
posted by A Friend of Dug [sock] at 2:35 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
46yom stands bereft, and would have swapped even those precious opcodes for decades of feeling less stupid and alone.
posted by A Friend of Dug [sock] at 2:35 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
My 16 year old self would probably like the music I listen to. He would, however, be pretty surprised I'm alive.
posted by poe at 2:51 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by poe at 2:51 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
16 year old me would have liked how his hair turned out 30 years later. Anything's better than the "half-melted Donald Trump polyester fright-wig" look I had back then.
posted by scruss at 2:54 PM on June 22, 2016
posted by scruss at 2:54 PM on June 22, 2016
16 year old me would be pretty OK with 41 year old me, actually. Maybe a little surprised at some of the genres of music I've gotten into in the meantime, but even then I was able to grudgingly admit to myself (even if not to anyone else) that I liked a pop/rap/hiphop song that wasn't in the prescribed stable of 1970s rock, Beatles, jazz, or classical that I grew up on. Late 30s/early 40s me finally grew into the old-fashioned/overdressed/occasional dandy fashion sense that I wasn't quite able to articulate (much less pull off) in high school, and 16 year old me would definitely have been glad to know that.
posted by usonian at 4:53 PM on June 22, 2016
posted by usonian at 4:53 PM on June 22, 2016
My tastes haven't changed, I've just been adding things because there's so much more out there to love/like.
However, 16-self would be surprised that Oasis definitely won the Britpop War and 18-self would be completely and utterly shocked to find herself at a Belle and Sebastian 20th anniversary show. Belle and Sebastian could barely play their instruments or sing, so how could they last so long?
posted by betweenthebars at 4:56 PM on June 22, 2016
However, 16-self would be surprised that Oasis definitely won the Britpop War and 18-self would be completely and utterly shocked to find herself at a Belle and Sebastian 20th anniversary show. Belle and Sebastian could barely play their instruments or sing, so how could they last so long?
posted by betweenthebars at 4:56 PM on June 22, 2016
16 y.o. me would not even recognize the person that is now 57 y.o. me, who doesn't even believe that 57 y.o. me isn't still 30 y.o. me. Eventually, the regression in acknowledged years will coalesce into a brief stasis when the past and present me's are in the same/not same temporal mode and all will be revealed to be true/untrue as it always/never was/is.
posted by mightshould at 5:07 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mightshould at 5:07 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
33 year old me thinks there's a lot of interesting stuff in the article that no one's discussing here in the comments because everyone is typically self-absorbed
speaking of, the distinction drawn of what is or isn't an "acquired taste" is fascinating, but at first blush, i don't know if there's any practical difference between tastes you come to enjoy which are truly novel and ones where you genuinely have a change of heart. i feel like context is a powerful enough influence that you really can witness an experience with an effectively "new" perspective.
posted by blue t-shirt at 5:29 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
speaking of, the distinction drawn of what is or isn't an "acquired taste" is fascinating, but at first blush, i don't know if there's any practical difference between tastes you come to enjoy which are truly novel and ones where you genuinely have a change of heart. i feel like context is a powerful enough influence that you really can witness an experience with an effectively "new" perspective.
posted by blue t-shirt at 5:29 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
16 year old me would think 42 year old me was the fucking coolest. But what the fuck does he know? Dumb kid.
posted by rodlymight at 5:41 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by rodlymight at 5:41 PM on June 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
i feel like context is a powerful enough influence that you really can witness an experience with an effectively "new" perspective.
I think it is too.
I'm still drawn to many of the same things and types of things as I was when I was 16, but it's appreciably different now. At 16, everything was a lot more novel, I was blown away by all the rich variety of music and film and other art available to me, I was more easily impressed I think, and I tended to identify more closely with the media I chose. Teenagers are kind of trying to carve out new, independent identities for themselves, but they don't have control over a lot of aspects of their lives, which I suspect makes them invest a lot more in the choices they do have, including the music they listen to and the clothes they wear. Kids seem much more likely to form alliances over shared media interests than adults. But now, most of my friends don't like the same things I do, and we almost never come to blows over it.
But as an adult, I appreciate things from a different perspective, and I appreciate a wider range of things, and a lot of that is what I can only describe as acquired tastes. I recognize formulas and deviations from formulas. I get more references. I make more connections. I appreciate aspects of things I probably wouldn't have noticed when I was younger and everything was newer.
I'm not embarrassed or anything by (at least most of) the types of things I enjoyed at 16*, but I much prefer the way I enjoy things now. It's less fanatical, but it's more rewarding.
* 12, maybe, but all it took to grab my attention then was cute boys in tight pants.
posted by ernielundquist at 7:00 PM on June 22, 2016
I think it is too.
I'm still drawn to many of the same things and types of things as I was when I was 16, but it's appreciably different now. At 16, everything was a lot more novel, I was blown away by all the rich variety of music and film and other art available to me, I was more easily impressed I think, and I tended to identify more closely with the media I chose. Teenagers are kind of trying to carve out new, independent identities for themselves, but they don't have control over a lot of aspects of their lives, which I suspect makes them invest a lot more in the choices they do have, including the music they listen to and the clothes they wear. Kids seem much more likely to form alliances over shared media interests than adults. But now, most of my friends don't like the same things I do, and we almost never come to blows over it.
But as an adult, I appreciate things from a different perspective, and I appreciate a wider range of things, and a lot of that is what I can only describe as acquired tastes. I recognize formulas and deviations from formulas. I get more references. I make more connections. I appreciate aspects of things I probably wouldn't have noticed when I was younger and everything was newer.
I'm not embarrassed or anything by (at least most of) the types of things I enjoyed at 16*, but I much prefer the way I enjoy things now. It's less fanatical, but it's more rewarding.
* 12, maybe, but all it took to grab my attention then was cute boys in tight pants.
posted by ernielundquist at 7:00 PM on June 22, 2016
I still like just about everything I liked as a kid. I just like a whole lot of other stuff now, too.
My feelings too. I'm not at all embarrassed about the music and art that I liked when I was young, it's all cool.
(On the other hand, I do feel self-conscious about some decisions in other aspects of my life that I made when I was immature);
posted by ovvl at 8:07 PM on June 22, 2016
My feelings too. I'm not at all embarrassed about the music and art that I liked when I was young, it's all cool.
(On the other hand, I do feel self-conscious about some decisions in other aspects of my life that I made when I was immature);
posted by ovvl at 8:07 PM on June 22, 2016
I know, 16-year-old me, that you have that little gold cross you picked up at a garage sale, and you're curious about that religion a lot of your friends are part of. Well, guess what, you're Jewish. Dad wasn't just making bad jokes; he was making anti-Semitic jokes about Mom. You could be a DAR member on the other side, but yeah. You're Jewish, even though you were raised to be atheist. But whatever you become—quasi-Jewish agnostic, maybe—I think you know this summer program is going to change your life. It'll give you a name and provide you with a sense of purpose and direction.
Here are some words for this stuff you don't quite understand about yourself: OCD, genderqueer. That guy you're making out with who's obnoxious in his insistence that you question everything is now an evangelical Christian. The philosophy-obsessed ladies' man in your physics class is now Muslim. That tall guy over there is also an evangelical Christian, though not a convert, and in two years at a summer reunion he will think you're someone else. He'll discover you're not, but it'll be too late for both of you. This is also the year you will discover paragraphs, apparently. Do you realize how impossible it is to read this stream-of-consciousness crap?
You'll become someone else. Then you'll become, well, not someone better necessarily, but someone more honest. You'll actually become kind of an activist. Anyway, look, Ben Folds is fine, but his morals are questionable, and there's a lot of other music out there. Your real future husband will someday go see Blue Öyster Cult with you, though, so good call. Yeah, dude, I still say that, and no dice. Anime is great, though, isn't it?
posted by limeonaire at 8:45 PM on June 22, 2016
Here are some words for this stuff you don't quite understand about yourself: OCD, genderqueer. That guy you're making out with who's obnoxious in his insistence that you question everything is now an evangelical Christian. The philosophy-obsessed ladies' man in your physics class is now Muslim. That tall guy over there is also an evangelical Christian, though not a convert, and in two years at a summer reunion he will think you're someone else. He'll discover you're not, but it'll be too late for both of you. This is also the year you will discover paragraphs, apparently. Do you realize how impossible it is to read this stream-of-consciousness crap?
You'll become someone else. Then you'll become, well, not someone better necessarily, but someone more honest. You'll actually become kind of an activist. Anyway, look, Ben Folds is fine, but his morals are questionable, and there's a lot of other music out there. Your real future husband will someday go see Blue Öyster Cult with you, though, so good call. Yeah, dude, I still say that, and no dice. Anime is great, though, isn't it?
posted by limeonaire at 8:45 PM on June 22, 2016
P.S. You have always been and ever shall be a procrastinator. The trick is to use other work to procrastinate on your work.
posted by limeonaire at 8:51 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 8:51 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
One problem is that we do not anticipate the effect of experiencing things. We may instinctively realise we will tire of our favourite food if we eat too much of it, but we might underestimate how much more we could like something if only we ate it more often.
This past weekend my family went to the beach. What used to be a magical adventure was just a hassle of sunscreen, sand and snacks. I never dreamed I'd tire of the ocean but the magic just isn't there. I think I've learned there's no inherent beauty but what you make - 16yom didn't understand this - and yet it is hard to let go of that idea at the same time, which makes the mundacity of a beach trip that much more tragic. I haven't yet found a solution.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:55 PM on June 22, 2016
This past weekend my family went to the beach. What used to be a magical adventure was just a hassle of sunscreen, sand and snacks. I never dreamed I'd tire of the ocean but the magic just isn't there. I think I've learned there's no inherent beauty but what you make - 16yom didn't understand this - and yet it is hard to let go of that idea at the same time, which makes the mundacity of a beach trip that much more tragic. I haven't yet found a solution.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:55 PM on June 22, 2016
16yo me thinks I blew it in general, but absolutely loves my apartment.
posted by rhizome at 10:14 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 10:14 PM on June 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
This sounds like a situation in which the album (beer) hasn't changed, the person experiencing it has, through a change in experience, context, etc. Maybe I just need to go find out what Dennett is saying firsthand.
The thing is that Daniel Dennett is a philosopher who specializes in analyzing internal mental experiences of things, and what we can really "know" about those things in the outside world through our internal mental experience. He's done some interesting work on consciousness, and the ways our sensation of being conscious conflicts with what evidence we can get from experimental neuroscience.
Did you ever have a conversation with a friend about whether the "red" color they're seeing is really the same thing you're seeing? Like maybe the thing they see is a sensation that you'd call "green" if you had the same experience, but you both say "red" because that's what everyone agrees to call the color of a fire truck? This is actually something philosophers think about: the term for those kind of internal mental sensation-experiences is qualia.
So I think that qualia is the idea that Dennett is slotting the discussion of The Taste Of Beer into. The beer hasn't changed -- but by "the taste," he means the experience you had in your mind, which you treat as "what beer tastes like."
The first time you drank beer, you perceived it as something, and you didn't like it. So the question is then: if you didn't like it before, and you like it now, what's the difference (philosophically)?
1. The qualia of the taste of the beer in your mind is the same ... you just have learned to like those sensations and reactions that you couldn't stand.
2. The qualia is actually different now ... you taste something less harsh, more comfortable, perhaps because it's grown more familiar.
This is actually a really interesting question, and I think there are different things we pick up in life that fall into these different categories. Maybe you've learned to like a bitter bite to food when, as a child, you wanted sweetness and saltiness only. Or maybe eggplant just doesn't taste as bitter to you as it used to. (Have your tastebuds changed?) I think this distinction is what he's pointing out when he asks whether something is an "acquired taste."
(For some reason this reminds me a lot of the de re and de dicto distinction in semantics, i.e. the two different possible interpretations of "Sarah wants to marry a Norwegian.")
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:56 PM on June 22, 2016
The thing is that Daniel Dennett is a philosopher who specializes in analyzing internal mental experiences of things, and what we can really "know" about those things in the outside world through our internal mental experience. He's done some interesting work on consciousness, and the ways our sensation of being conscious conflicts with what evidence we can get from experimental neuroscience.
Did you ever have a conversation with a friend about whether the "red" color they're seeing is really the same thing you're seeing? Like maybe the thing they see is a sensation that you'd call "green" if you had the same experience, but you both say "red" because that's what everyone agrees to call the color of a fire truck? This is actually something philosophers think about: the term for those kind of internal mental sensation-experiences is qualia.
So I think that qualia is the idea that Dennett is slotting the discussion of The Taste Of Beer into. The beer hasn't changed -- but by "the taste," he means the experience you had in your mind, which you treat as "what beer tastes like."
The first time you drank beer, you perceived it as something, and you didn't like it. So the question is then: if you didn't like it before, and you like it now, what's the difference (philosophically)?
1. The qualia of the taste of the beer in your mind is the same ... you just have learned to like those sensations and reactions that you couldn't stand.
2. The qualia is actually different now ... you taste something less harsh, more comfortable, perhaps because it's grown more familiar.
This is actually a really interesting question, and I think there are different things we pick up in life that fall into these different categories. Maybe you've learned to like a bitter bite to food when, as a child, you wanted sweetness and saltiness only. Or maybe eggplant just doesn't taste as bitter to you as it used to. (Have your tastebuds changed?) I think this distinction is what he's pointing out when he asks whether something is an "acquired taste."
(For some reason this reminds me a lot of the de re and de dicto distinction in semantics, i.e. the two different possible interpretations of "Sarah wants to marry a Norwegian.")
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 10:56 PM on June 22, 2016
16 year old me would be unsurprised and slightly saddened that I live alone and don't have much sex. 19 year old me would be surprised that I survived past 30. I think both would be happy with my choices in vocation and avocation, though 19 year old me would be angry that I discovered there is music other than punk.
posted by evilDoug at 6:10 AM on June 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by evilDoug at 6:10 AM on June 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
The article seemed a little repetitive, but maybe I wasn't taking it all in at full depth because I'm a skimmer. Plus some of the sociological insights, such as the 'cool' kids dropping the Lance Armstrong bracelets when the 'geeks' got into it were not that surprising. Judgement of desirability has a lot to do with what social group you already belong to; for some people popularity is a good thing, a sign that you're 'normal' in a good way, not pretentious, not a weirdo, not elitist. For others, popularity means you're too mainstream, not a true geek or true outsider weirdo, which for some people is a badge of pride.
Regarding novelty and 'in-groups', many years ago in art school you wanted to be more obscure, ostensibly, because it was a signifier that you were sincere, a true weirdo. But then it got linked to namedropping and posing and I suppose that concept is as old as the hills too. Then that became a signifier of insincerity. ( I was truly stunned when geekiness became hip in the late 90s-early 2000s).
Me, I'm a semi-pretentious weirdo, but not that weird. 16 year old me wouldn't be too surprised at 50 year old me. Especially since I'm pretty regressive and listen to a lot of music that is either of my youth or current bands the recycle music of my youth or youthful taste.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 1:03 PM on June 23, 2016
Regarding novelty and 'in-groups', many years ago in art school you wanted to be more obscure, ostensibly, because it was a signifier that you were sincere, a true weirdo. But then it got linked to namedropping and posing and I suppose that concept is as old as the hills too. Then that became a signifier of insincerity. ( I was truly stunned when geekiness became hip in the late 90s-early 2000s).
Me, I'm a semi-pretentious weirdo, but not that weird. 16 year old me wouldn't be too surprised at 50 year old me. Especially since I'm pretty regressive and listen to a lot of music that is either of my youth or current bands the recycle music of my youth or youthful taste.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 1:03 PM on June 23, 2016
my 16-year-old Laurel President Mormon Young Republican self would be so, so horrified (and very secretly turned on) that at 34 we are STILL not married, we have NO children but we do have quite a few tattoos, we're bi and liberal, and that for work we make lattes and highballs.
Mostly I just want to take 16-year-old me clothes shopping because oh girl. no.
posted by floweringjudas at 4:34 AM on June 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mostly I just want to take 16-year-old me clothes shopping because oh girl. no.
posted by floweringjudas at 4:34 AM on June 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sadly I dress the same as I did when I was 16.
posted by octothorpe at 5:58 AM on June 24, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 5:58 AM on June 24, 2016
« Older Apollo 19 | case/lang/veirs Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2016 [2 favorites]