"This is bigger than one woman. This is the only way to use Twitter."
June 29, 2016 11:36 AM Subscribe
Why I Created The #UnfollowAMan Movement - "I’ve been man-free on Twitter for six months and you can be too. I mean, it can’t make Twitter any worse at this point, right?" Katie Notopoulos, BuzzFeed
"At the time, the inspiration was my colleague Charlie’s self-torturing experiments (not using email for a week, unfollowing every single person on Twitter) and blogger and Think-Up founder Anil Dash’s experiment of only retweeting women for a year. Anil’s experiment changed the gender of what he was putting out on Twittter; I wanted to try changing who I was listening to.
"A month of man-free Twitter seemed like a satisfyingly stupid/nuts/semi-meaningful undertaking. I planned to come away with some deep insights and then turn those insights into patriarchy-crushing content. But something strange happened. I couldn’t refollow. Months kept passing while I followed no men. I wasn’t ready to write. At first it felt like an inconvenience that I could tolerate temporarily, but as time passed I started to realize: This is bigger than one woman. This is the only way to use Twitter."
This is actually an INCREDIBLY sexist thing to do and I do not support it AT ALL. Twitter is a communication medium and all voices... (1/53)
posted by griphus at 11:46 AM on June 29, 2016 [126 favorites]
posted by griphus at 11:46 AM on June 29, 2016 [126 favorites]
boy it's a good thing nobody knows i'm a dog
posted by entropicamericana at 11:47 AM on June 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 11:47 AM on June 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
Did this for a few dudes when I first heard about it. Did make my Twitter experience better.
Also totally recognize I'd probably be the man getting unfollowed by some people. Not sure where I sit with that.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:51 AM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also totally recognize I'd probably be the man getting unfollowed by some people. Not sure where I sit with that.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:51 AM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
also pls don't unfollow me :(
posted by AFABulous at 11:53 AM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 11:53 AM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was a woman, in an another online environment, long long ago, with a famous bit of harassment. But I could not get harassed. I expect I was trolled and baited, but intrinsically the creeps instantly lost interest. Not sure if I was not responding like a female (enough?) or it's just my nature (I'll walk through the ghetto at 3am and not be bothered). There is wretched stuff on the internet, I'm just not always sure it's always asymmetrical.
posted by sammyo at 11:53 AM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 11:53 AM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Several men confronted me about why I had unfollowed them, and instead of admitting, “Well, your tweets made me want to run into the server room at Twitter HQ and rip out every cord,” I could simply say, “Oh, it’s not just you, I unfollowed all men.” Men tend to be more emotional than rational, so several of them still stewed and moaned about their feelings of rejection even after the logic had been explained to them.Poor men, their hormones just get the best of them. Must be hard.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:57 AM on June 29, 2016 [65 favorites]
I'd probably be the man getting unfollowed by some people. Not sure where I sit with that.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't possible care less. You use twitter, twitter doesn't use you. Follow whoever the fuck you want, right? (Or am I, like a rude savage, violating some dimly grasped Millennial ethic?)
("How many men should I unfollow? All of them, Katie.")
posted by octobersurprise at 11:58 AM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm pretty sure I couldn't possible care less. You use twitter, twitter doesn't use you. Follow whoever the fuck you want, right? (Or am I, like a rude savage, violating some dimly grasped Millennial ethic?)
("How many men should I unfollow? All of them, Katie.")
posted by octobersurprise at 11:58 AM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'll unfollow you, will you unfollow me
All the hottest takes that you'll never see
I won't retweet you, don't you retweet me
Just one single mention in each topic trending
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:58 AM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
All the hottest takes that you'll never see
I won't retweet you, don't you retweet me
Just one single mention in each topic trending
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:58 AM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
*golf clap*
posted by octobersurprise at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I genuinely don't understand why unfollowing people is a big deal. I do it all the time, and people do it to me. The 'exit interview' is always weird, though.
"Why did you unfollow me?"
Because I don't want to read your tweets? I don't owe anyone a dialogue — and you do not owe me one, either.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
"Why did you unfollow me?"
Because I don't want to read your tweets? I don't owe anyone a dialogue — and you do not owe me one, either.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:01 PM on June 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
"Why did you unfollow me?"
How do you know who unfollows you? I mean, occasionally I'll see my followers drop but the only way to figure out who dropped me would be to go through my current followers and figure out who's missing, and that would require that I was keeping a list of who was there so i could compare it to my past followers.
I guess it's entirely possible that's what some people do.
posted by bondcliff at 12:06 PM on June 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
How do you know who unfollows you? I mean, occasionally I'll see my followers drop but the only way to figure out who dropped me would be to go through my current followers and figure out who's missing, and that would require that I was keeping a list of who was there so i could compare it to my past followers.
I guess it's entirely possible that's what some people do.
posted by bondcliff at 12:06 PM on June 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't owe anyone a dialogue
The problem is that there's a lot of people that don't believe that. It pops up a lot in comments, especially online, from people that like to style themselves as defenders of free speech. Somehow they don't understand that the right to free speech doesn't equate to an obligation for everyone to listen to and agree with them. Unsurprisingly, the Venn diagram between those kinds of folks and the ones that sympathize with shouty harassment groups is almost a circle.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:11 PM on June 29, 2016 [29 favorites]
The problem is that there's a lot of people that don't believe that. It pops up a lot in comments, especially online, from people that like to style themselves as defenders of free speech. Somehow they don't understand that the right to free speech doesn't equate to an obligation for everyone to listen to and agree with them. Unsurprisingly, the Venn diagram between those kinds of folks and the ones that sympathize with shouty harassment groups is almost a circle.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:11 PM on June 29, 2016 [29 favorites]
An "unfollow monitor" could certainly be written. Probably exists, would make sense for social media ""professionals"". But... really?
posted by sammyo at 12:12 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 12:12 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Why did you unfollow me?"
...silence.
Best policy.
posted by aramaic at 12:13 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
...silence.
Best policy.
posted by aramaic at 12:13 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not sure I want to unfollow my kids.
posted by Biblio at 12:15 PM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Biblio at 12:15 PM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
How do you know who unfollows you?
I notice when I cull dead accounts from my "follows" list. There are apps that alert you. Also, some people creep my feed. (I assume that's why everything I said 3 months ago gets Liked in rapid succession.)
Twitter is an odd place.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:15 PM on June 29, 2016
I notice when I cull dead accounts from my "follows" list. There are apps that alert you. Also, some people creep my feed. (I assume that's why everything I said 3 months ago gets Liked in rapid succession.)
Twitter is an odd place.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:15 PM on June 29, 2016
To be clear: I find out incidentally and do not care one way or the other, but apparently I am in the minority in that regard.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:16 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:16 PM on June 29, 2016
I'm increasingly feeling that curation is one of the most important things in life. I've noticed that without it, everything in my life starts being dominated by the same few things, and the voices that produce them are mostly those of straight white men. And I could relax into this, as I am, after all, a straight white man, and how comforting it is to live in a world of mirrors, that constantly reflects back to you your own concerns and interests, and reminds you that these are very, very important?
But I don't want that. I don't think it's healthy, and, I mean, honestly, it's just boring. So I curate my MP3 collection so that it isn't dominated by straight white men, I curate my Twitter feed to do the same, and on, like this, throughout my life. And I try, as much as I can, to be their audience, to assume that they are the stars of their story and not supporting characters in mine. And it's a challenge, because this is a world that really, really pushes for the voices of straight white men to come to the forefront.
If someone wants to curate men out completely on Twitter, I can't say I blame them. It's not like they aren't going to still get those voices from every single other place on earth.
posted by maxsparber at 12:18 PM on June 29, 2016 [30 favorites]
But I don't want that. I don't think it's healthy, and, I mean, honestly, it's just boring. So I curate my MP3 collection so that it isn't dominated by straight white men, I curate my Twitter feed to do the same, and on, like this, throughout my life. And I try, as much as I can, to be their audience, to assume that they are the stars of their story and not supporting characters in mine. And it's a challenge, because this is a world that really, really pushes for the voices of straight white men to come to the forefront.
If someone wants to curate men out completely on Twitter, I can't say I blame them. It's not like they aren't going to still get those voices from every single other place on earth.
posted by maxsparber at 12:18 PM on June 29, 2016 [30 favorites]
bondcliff, sammyo: There are services.
I cannot imagine anything good would come from using them. It's like knowing the day you're going to die.
posted by bondcliff at 12:18 PM on June 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
I cannot imagine anything good would come from using them. It's like knowing the day you're going to die.
posted by bondcliff at 12:18 PM on June 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
I mute people instead of unfollowing them. I don't think it's possible to autodetect that, but I could be wrong.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 12:18 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by Gerald Bostock at 12:18 PM on June 29, 2016
I prefer not to let people know I'm following them... more stealthy that way.
posted by wabbittwax at 12:20 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by wabbittwax at 12:20 PM on June 29, 2016
Mute is the best, because then they don't know. (You are correct, there is no way to find out, you can assume but someone may just be ignoring you the manual way — with their eyes.)
Being blocked is apparently some kind of bragging right, so mute also serves to eliminate them from your feed and not give them any sort of satisfaction — if they're that sort.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:20 PM on June 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
Being blocked is apparently some kind of bragging right, so mute also serves to eliminate them from your feed and not give them any sort of satisfaction — if they're that sort.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:20 PM on June 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
Just so long as I don't have to unfollow Lin-Manuel Miranda.
posted by matildaben at 12:21 PM on June 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by matildaben at 12:21 PM on June 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
i don't have a twitter account - i've unfollowed ALL OF YOU
posted by pyramid termite at 12:24 PM on June 29, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 12:24 PM on June 29, 2016 [20 favorites]
As someone who loves the crap out of Twitter, I followed the advice of Sally T over at The Struggle Bus podcast and stopped hate-following certain accounts/people. I realized that my interest in seeing how awful people could be popping up constantly on my timeline was doing me and my mental health no favours. (I also don't hate-watch stuff, but then I never did, unless you count my stupid masochistic love affair with Teen Wolf.)
posted by Kitteh at 12:24 PM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 12:24 PM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'd probably be the man getting unfollowed by some people. Not sure where I sit with that.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't possible care less. You use twitter, twitter doesn't use you
Oh, it's totally everybody's decision whether or not they follow me. I meant I'm not sure where I sit with the self-knowledge that I'm pretty sure I'm 'somebody's annoying dude on twitter.'
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:27 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure I couldn't possible care less. You use twitter, twitter doesn't use you
Oh, it's totally everybody's decision whether or not they follow me. I meant I'm not sure where I sit with the self-knowledge that I'm pretty sure I'm 'somebody's annoying dude on twitter.'
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:27 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I genuinely don't understand why unfollowing people is a big deal.
On one hand, I agree in that I generally try not to get fussed when it happens. It's your social media account, you can follow/unfollow who you want.
But there is a subtext, and it's that you don't respect what people are saying enough to want to hear it anymore. Which translates pretty easily to the idea that you don't respect them as a person.
Given that, it's reasonable to assume that an unfollow means the unfollower and unfollowee are somehow Not Good with one another and to ask what happened, whether the unfollower decides to confirm and skirt the issue with silence or use words.
Unfollowing an entire class of people, well, there are obvious limits to that approach, but again, it's your social media account, use/enjoy it how you like.
If there's a problem here, it's in "This is the only way to use Twitter."
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:31 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
On one hand, I agree in that I generally try not to get fussed when it happens. It's your social media account, you can follow/unfollow who you want.
But there is a subtext, and it's that you don't respect what people are saying enough to want to hear it anymore. Which translates pretty easily to the idea that you don't respect them as a person.
Given that, it's reasonable to assume that an unfollow means the unfollower and unfollowee are somehow Not Good with one another and to ask what happened, whether the unfollower decides to confirm and skirt the issue with silence or use words.
Unfollowing an entire class of people, well, there are obvious limits to that approach, but again, it's your social media account, use/enjoy it how you like.
If there's a problem here, it's in "This is the only way to use Twitter."
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:31 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've done something like this. I go through periodic purges of Twitter when it overwhelms me. Mostly I just follow people who tweet a lot, and that 1/53 is nearly a sure unfollow for me. But I also started biasing towards unfollowing people who are white men, on the theory that I'd enjoy more diversity in my Twitter stream. It's worked great.
Another useful Twitter purge is to turn off retweets. They're entirely noise IMHO. There's no way to turn off all retweets, but the detweet hack will turn off retweets for every single account you follow, one at a time.
posted by Nelson at 12:39 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Another useful Twitter purge is to turn off retweets. They're entirely noise IMHO. There's no way to turn off all retweets, but the detweet hack will turn off retweets for every single account you follow, one at a time.
posted by Nelson at 12:39 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't see anyone here pointing out the most egregious update demanded by this article, which was published in 2014. In the intervening time the semi-anonymous 27-year-old troll she mentions claims to have had sex and now no longer considers himself a virgin.
posted by superfluousm at 12:39 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by superfluousm at 12:39 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
But there is a subtext, and it's that you don't respect what people are saying enough to want to hear it anymore. Which translates pretty easily to the idea that you don't respect them as a person.
Sometimes when I unfollow someone, both are true.
posted by maxsparber at 12:42 PM on June 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sometimes when I unfollow someone, both are true.
posted by maxsparber at 12:42 PM on June 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
This reminds me how on dating sites you can list out your favorite books/music/etc. I've read a few profiles from women seeking men saying, essentially, "if you list out your favorite stuff and NONE of it is by women, I am totally judging you for it / not dating you." Exactly - we should be completely embarrassed by that. These unconscious biases need to be called out more. Because where we focus our attention and what we selectively listen to is everything. If you're mostly following men, who are mostly listening to / reading other men, then it all gets magnified. You're increasingly in danger of living in a simulacrum that responds to women rather than an actual world with lots of women's voices in it.
posted by naju at 12:42 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by naju at 12:42 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
(Which is to say, unfollow and block the shit out of me!)
posted by naju at 12:44 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by naju at 12:44 PM on June 29, 2016
Mod note: A few comments removed. This is not by a long stretch the first conversation we've had on the site about twitter or social media in general, so maybe skip the "these are my unrelated-to-the-topic complaints about twitter or social media in general" stuff?
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:47 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:47 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
But there is a subtext, and it's that you don't respect what people are saying enough to want to hear it anymore. Which translates pretty easily to the idea that you don't respect them as a person.
That sounds reasonable. Perhaps why I am so confused is I don't really think of formless entities on Twitter as "friends" — barest of acquaintances at best. (I have met some good, long-standing friends through the platform, but those are huge exceptions to the rule.)
Following someone means nothing more than "I was interested in seeing your tweets." We're not really friends. We likely never will be. Hell, you will never even learn my last name. If either of us died tomorrow, the other would have no idea. Our "relationship" is tenuous, at best. So when I unfollow someone, I don't think much of it.
Obviously other people have very different thoughts on that, as I have learned.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:49 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
That sounds reasonable. Perhaps why I am so confused is I don't really think of formless entities on Twitter as "friends" — barest of acquaintances at best. (I have met some good, long-standing friends through the platform, but those are huge exceptions to the rule.)
Following someone means nothing more than "I was interested in seeing your tweets." We're not really friends. We likely never will be. Hell, you will never even learn my last name. If either of us died tomorrow, the other would have no idea. Our "relationship" is tenuous, at best. So when I unfollow someone, I don't think much of it.
Obviously other people have very different thoughts on that, as I have learned.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:49 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
...there is a subtext, and it's that you don't respect what people are saying enough to want to hear it anymore. Which translates pretty easily to the idea that you don't respect them as a person.
I don't use social media but I have been very pointedly "unfollowing" men in my offline life as of late, and this is honestly why. I'm pretty much done with forcing myself to respect people whose power and success as a class is entirely dependent upon the ongoing subjugation of half of the human race. Not hanging out with men really made me reflect on how much of my life was spent spun up and overwhelmed by the search for male validation and approval. And then came the acknowledgment that the search itself is a side effect of the dudely perspective being promulgated as the One True Lens through which life itself must be viewed lest it be dismissed as overly narrow or manufactured in service to an "agenda." Which meant I really needed to figure out a way to have less dudely perspective delivered into my consciousness.
More and more, I had started to feel like, hey, I already have to hear all about what men do and say and think and feel (so emotional!) in the outside world 24/7/365, I don't really need to keep inviting that shit into my periphery on purpose. I don't have to sit there and roll my eyes at their aw-shucks-who-me? ignorance of male supremacy or tamp down my anger when they tell me I should take street harassment as a compliment or laugh uncomfortably when they say something breathtakingly sexist. I can actually make the choice to opt out of having to listen to men in my spare time when and wherever I feel like it, as often as I want, for as long as I want. It's wonderful and I can't recommend it enough.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 12:51 PM on June 29, 2016 [36 favorites]
I don't use social media but I have been very pointedly "unfollowing" men in my offline life as of late, and this is honestly why. I'm pretty much done with forcing myself to respect people whose power and success as a class is entirely dependent upon the ongoing subjugation of half of the human race. Not hanging out with men really made me reflect on how much of my life was spent spun up and overwhelmed by the search for male validation and approval. And then came the acknowledgment that the search itself is a side effect of the dudely perspective being promulgated as the One True Lens through which life itself must be viewed lest it be dismissed as overly narrow or manufactured in service to an "agenda." Which meant I really needed to figure out a way to have less dudely perspective delivered into my consciousness.
More and more, I had started to feel like, hey, I already have to hear all about what men do and say and think and feel (so emotional!) in the outside world 24/7/365, I don't really need to keep inviting that shit into my periphery on purpose. I don't have to sit there and roll my eyes at their aw-shucks-who-me? ignorance of male supremacy or tamp down my anger when they tell me I should take street harassment as a compliment or laugh uncomfortably when they say something breathtakingly sexist. I can actually make the choice to opt out of having to listen to men in my spare time when and wherever I feel like it, as often as I want, for as long as I want. It's wonderful and I can't recommend it enough.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 12:51 PM on June 29, 2016 [36 favorites]
Dear fellow twitter users who identify with any gender that is not male;
Hello! I'd probably like to follow you (unless your twitter is nothing but outragefilter, I use tumblr for that). My twitter account is @subbes and I post a lot of images and jokes and occasionally some things about my life but I don't really get very personal on twitter, which is something I'm wondering if I should change but twitter doesnt feel safe for that sort of thing and, YOU KNOW, I'm wondering if that has something to do with it being COVERED WITH DUDE STANK?
posted by subbes at 12:58 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hello! I'd probably like to follow you (unless your twitter is nothing but outragefilter, I use tumblr for that). My twitter account is @subbes and I post a lot of images and jokes and occasionally some things about my life but I don't really get very personal on twitter, which is something I'm wondering if I should change but twitter doesnt feel safe for that sort of thing and, YOU KNOW, I'm wondering if that has something to do with it being COVERED WITH DUDE STANK?
posted by subbes at 12:58 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
...there is a subtext, and it's that you don't respect what people are saying enough to want to hear it anymore. Which translates pretty easily to the idea that you don't respect them as a person.
That's a big leap to make. Some people who were kind when you followed them become gruff and insulting. Some people let their accounts become one long daily horoscope feed. Some people turn into ones who ask and ask and ask and ask and ask and never acknowledge or thank. Others get a new cat and their feed becomes ALL CAT ALL THE TIME. Unfollowing them is an amicable breakup, not a sign that I disrespect them as a person.
posted by kimberussell at 1:02 PM on June 29, 2016 [12 favorites]
That's a big leap to make. Some people who were kind when you followed them become gruff and insulting. Some people let their accounts become one long daily horoscope feed. Some people turn into ones who ask and ask and ask and ask and ask and never acknowledge or thank. Others get a new cat and their feed becomes ALL CAT ALL THE TIME. Unfollowing them is an amicable breakup, not a sign that I disrespect them as a person.
posted by kimberussell at 1:02 PM on June 29, 2016 [12 favorites]
Also, my Twitter feed would be much sadder and shabbier without the people I follow in it, no matter what their gender.
posted by kimberussell at 1:03 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 1:03 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm enough of a geezer that I have never followed anyone, nor want to.
I think I understand why a person would follow someone, but why would you follow someone (of whatever sex) who is annoying you?
posted by MtDewd at 1:07 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think I understand why a person would follow someone, but why would you follow someone (of whatever sex) who is annoying you?
posted by MtDewd at 1:07 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
(1/53)
I'm sorry to interrupt but this was sublime.
posted by fullerine at 1:08 PM on June 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
I'm sorry to interrupt but this was sublime.
posted by fullerine at 1:08 PM on June 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
...but why would you follow someone (of whatever sex) who is annoying you?
I'm sure the Germans have some word for this that also happens to be a BDSM term of art.
posted by griphus at 1:09 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm sure the Germans have some word for this that also happens to be a BDSM term of art.
posted by griphus at 1:09 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
There's an English word too: Hatefollowing. I can't explain it, but it's a thing.
posted by maxsparber at 1:10 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 1:10 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Curation, as maxsparber mentioned above, is a good thing. I don't think I'll be unfollowing anybody, to be honest. My experience seems to be the exact opposite of Dark Messiah where I follow genuine people, for the most part. It is like my own version of an RSS feed plus extra commentary and links to other stuff I'll like. Plus I've even met a few! It's like MeFi but with more cat pictures! And GIFs!
Facebook is for following people you have to. (Well, except for when I went through that purge last year... No ragrets!) Twitter is for what I'm interested in.
posted by jillithd at 1:12 PM on June 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
Facebook is for following people you have to. (Well, except for when I went through that purge last year... No ragrets!) Twitter is for what I'm interested in.
posted by jillithd at 1:12 PM on June 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
I confess to checking my gender-of-retweets sent score on the Twee-Q site she mentioned and was rather pleased to note that it returned 7 recent retweets of men... and 14 by women. Excellent. Of course, the fact that the site then immediately attempted to get me to follow more interesting men was a little irritating...
posted by sciatrix at 1:16 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sciatrix at 1:16 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think I understand why a person would follow someone, but why would you follow someone (of whatever sex) who is annoying you?
Depending on their visibility and influence, a lot of people think it's useful to know what the other side is saying.
There's also "Okay, he's occasionally an asshole on Twitter, but I enjoy most of his tweets / other media."
posted by Etrigan at 1:23 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Depending on their visibility and influence, a lot of people think it's useful to know what the other side is saying.
There's also "Okay, he's occasionally an asshole on Twitter, but I enjoy most of his tweets / other media."
posted by Etrigan at 1:23 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am active on twitter but I don't follow anyone and I remove anyone who follows me. That way I consume what I want to consume and say whatever is on my mind without having to have a damn conversation about it. Would that I had the same freedom in the real world.
posted by headnsouth at 1:24 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by headnsouth at 1:24 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
How do you consume anything if you don't follow anyone?
posted by AFABulous at 1:26 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 1:26 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hatefollowing is a strange phenomena, and I do not grasp it. (I'll spare my poor man's Psych 101 thoughts on it.)
Indirectly, it leads to me unfollowing a lot of people. The reason is because not only do they hatefollow, but they spam their arguments with this person — whom they clearly hate — into their general feed. Either by excessively quote-retweeting their awfulness, or prefacing every one of their replies with a "." so it gets seen by everyone and not just mutual followers.
It helps to consider that some % of Twitter is performance art of varying degrees of quality.
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:29 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Indirectly, it leads to me unfollowing a lot of people. The reason is because not only do they hatefollow, but they spam their arguments with this person — whom they clearly hate — into their general feed. Either by excessively quote-retweeting their awfulness, or prefacing every one of their replies with a "." so it gets seen by everyone and not just mutual followers.
It helps to consider that some % of Twitter is performance art of varying degrees of quality.
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:29 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Years ago in the heady days of LiveJournal I used to have a follow-for-follow policy, which in my circles at least was pretty much the norm for everyone. Then one day I realized I was reading a bunch of junk, and thought, "You know what? This doesn't have to be reciprocal" and so I quit. Burned some people from my list, never got directly asked about the why, but you could feel the LJ brand of hurt feelings occasionally.
Mandatory reciprocal friendsing was one of the multitude of reasons I quit Facebook. I hated that so much, the rule that I couldn't allow anyone to follow what I had to say (if they so desired) without subjecting myself to their crap. I hear that it's not that way anymore, but that doesn't even begin to entice me to return.
So Twitter, then ... I realized when I first got an account (2007! time flies!) that it was going to be a good place for unidirectional relationships, and I've held that standard since Day One. I fully agree that you shouldn't have to listen to anyone if what they have to say doesn't interest or please you.
I support this #UnfollowAMan idea. I wouldn't get my feelings hurt if someone were to do this to me, even someone that I know and like in real life. It's just social media. I am provided a platform for my thoughts, but no one is obligated to read them at all, in any way.
how. ev. er.
I can already smell and feel and hear the frothing anger from Joe Average who doesn't get it, whose feelings are well and truly hurt by this theoretical experiment that some woman may choose to conduct. hashtag all genders of tweets matter, or some garbage like that. I'm exhausted just thinking about the venom.
because then, you know, I'm going to have to un-follow all these men too when they won't shut up about it.
posted by komara at 1:32 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mandatory reciprocal friendsing was one of the multitude of reasons I quit Facebook. I hated that so much, the rule that I couldn't allow anyone to follow what I had to say (if they so desired) without subjecting myself to their crap. I hear that it's not that way anymore, but that doesn't even begin to entice me to return.
So Twitter, then ... I realized when I first got an account (2007! time flies!) that it was going to be a good place for unidirectional relationships, and I've held that standard since Day One. I fully agree that you shouldn't have to listen to anyone if what they have to say doesn't interest or please you.
I support this #UnfollowAMan idea. I wouldn't get my feelings hurt if someone were to do this to me, even someone that I know and like in real life. It's just social media. I am provided a platform for my thoughts, but no one is obligated to read them at all, in any way.
how. ev. er.
I can already smell and feel and hear the frothing anger from Joe Average who doesn't get it, whose feelings are well and truly hurt by this theoretical experiment that some woman may choose to conduct. hashtag all genders of tweets matter, or some garbage like that. I'm exhausted just thinking about the venom.
because then, you know, I'm going to have to un-follow all these men too when they won't shut up about it.
posted by komara at 1:32 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am admittedly a weak shallow person so I admit to a bit of hatefollowing, but not in my timeline. That would suck. Instead, I created a list called conserva-creeps so I can periodically check in on what my least favorite right wingers are up to. If some big breaking news thing happens, I can take their pulse on a given topic. I don't interact with them, I just occasionally spy and get my grar on.
I know, shallow, right? Lists are a great tool.
I follow lots of men. So far I haven't found very many annoying enough to unfollow - maybe there've been one or two, over the years but none that I come to mind. Men in my timeline, you are all good, please stay that way!
posted by madamjujujive at 1:40 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know, shallow, right? Lists are a great tool.
I follow lots of men. So far I haven't found very many annoying enough to unfollow - maybe there've been one or two, over the years but none that I come to mind. Men in my timeline, you are all good, please stay that way!
posted by madamjujujive at 1:40 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wanted to highlight and appreciate the way the experiment, and this hashtag, served as a good "excuse" for those who want to unfollow men but who are worried about their reactions - abuse, resentment, threats, whining, SILENCED ALL MY LIFE etc.
Sure, you can say we should be strong enough to unfollow problematic dudes and cope with the fallout without the figleaf of a hashtag, and we should be smart enough to not follow problematic dudes or dudes who initially present as perfectly fine but then later turn out to be assholes. In reply I say why should we have to be, how hard is it for dudes to not be clownshoes
posted by subbes at 1:41 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
Sure, you can say we should be strong enough to unfollow problematic dudes and cope with the fallout without the figleaf of a hashtag, and we should be smart enough to not follow problematic dudes or dudes who initially present as perfectly fine but then later turn out to be assholes. In reply I say why should we have to be, how hard is it for dudes to not be clownshoes
posted by subbes at 1:41 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
I used to have a follow-for-follow policy, which in my circles at least was pretty much the norm for everyone.
I clearly get followed by people looking to bulk up their own follower lists by following random people and hoping this behaviour happens. I don't do it. As you've noted, you just end up following people who spam junk.
posted by GuyZero at 1:44 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I clearly get followed by people looking to bulk up their own follower lists by following random people and hoping this behaviour happens. I don't do it. As you've noted, you just end up following people who spam junk.
posted by GuyZero at 1:44 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
How do you consume anything if you don't follow anyone?
I search hashtags or visit pages or bounce around and stumbleupon things. It's like browsing in a crowded library where random people all throughout the stacks are sharing quiet conversations that I can just eavesdrop on. I am interested in conversations about specific topics, but I'm not interested enough in any individual to want to see their every tweet every day about everything under the sun.
posted by headnsouth at 1:48 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I search hashtags or visit pages or bounce around and stumbleupon things. It's like browsing in a crowded library where random people all throughout the stacks are sharing quiet conversations that I can just eavesdrop on. I am interested in conversations about specific topics, but I'm not interested enough in any individual to want to see their every tweet every day about everything under the sun.
posted by headnsouth at 1:48 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I only follow brands.
posted by ODiV at 1:59 PM on June 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 1:59 PM on June 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm a guy, although an asexual one. If you want to unfollow me it's fine, if you can so easily put it into terms where you can apply a simple metric to decide whether to follow me or not, then I obviously wasn't saying anything you found interesting enough to care about, anyway.
Please don't read anything passive-aggressive into that statement. I follow nearly a thousand people, because I am indecisive about who to drop. The thing about following people on Twitter is, you only have so much attention to go around. Every person you follow is listening to everyone else you follow a little less.
(I'd be following fewer people on Twitter, BTW, if I had an RSS reader anywhere close to as good as Google Reader #beatingadeadhorse.)
posted by JHarris at 2:00 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Please don't read anything passive-aggressive into that statement. I follow nearly a thousand people, because I am indecisive about who to drop. The thing about following people on Twitter is, you only have so much attention to go around. Every person you follow is listening to everyone else you follow a little less.
(I'd be following fewer people on Twitter, BTW, if I had an RSS reader anywhere close to as good as Google Reader #beatingadeadhorse.)
posted by JHarris at 2:00 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
i wouldn't unfollow all the guys in my feed, but a while back i realized that 'dudes i don't know or interact with' had creeped more into my feed and so i've been getting better at weeding them out when they aren't bringing anything into my life. i also some time ago realized that i was seeing awesome black women activist types rt'd in my feed but i wasn't following them, so i started to, and then branched out to other black women who interact with them, and branched out from there and it's just such a better feed! i tend to mute a lot rather than unfollow if it's someone i 'know' though.
also, i just said it on twitter the other day, but i encourage people to mute or unfollow me if i'm not bringing something to their experience. i can be a bit manic, a bit triggering, a bit drunk, a bit amused at my own jokes, and i can see that not being everyone's cup of tea. i don't understand getting upset about that. like, if i'm actively hurting someone's feelings and we're friends, i'd rather they tell me, but if my twitter is just not something they enjoy for any reason, they shouldn't feel a requirement to pretend to read it.
posted by nadawi at 2:02 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
also, i just said it on twitter the other day, but i encourage people to mute or unfollow me if i'm not bringing something to their experience. i can be a bit manic, a bit triggering, a bit drunk, a bit amused at my own jokes, and i can see that not being everyone's cup of tea. i don't understand getting upset about that. like, if i'm actively hurting someone's feelings and we're friends, i'd rather they tell me, but if my twitter is just not something they enjoy for any reason, they shouldn't feel a requirement to pretend to read it.
posted by nadawi at 2:02 PM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
Here's an interesting (to me) data point:
I was SHOCKED that my Twee-Q score was "@vinegarmike retweeted 86% men and 14% women." This was so unbelievable to me that I went through my recent RTs to do a data check.
Turns out it was true, but the reason it didn't necessarily feel that way because I was retweeting men I don't follow who came through my timeline because they were retweeted by women I do follow. What this says about me is left up as an exercise to the reader. (There's more than a few ways to hash that out, and I'm going to try to be kind to myself about it.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:03 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
I was SHOCKED that my Twee-Q score was "@vinegarmike retweeted 86% men and 14% women." This was so unbelievable to me that I went through my recent RTs to do a data check.
Turns out it was true, but the reason it didn't necessarily feel that way because I was retweeting men I don't follow who came through my timeline because they were retweeted by women I do follow. What this says about me is left up as an exercise to the reader. (There's more than a few ways to hash that out, and I'm going to try to be kind to myself about it.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:03 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
just checked twee-q, heh 39% men. that actually seems a little high for my misandry-fest of an account.
posted by nadawi at 2:05 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 2:05 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hm, has anyone done a gender breakdown of mefi favourites? I don't recall anything like that, anyway.
I don't favourite often so I could probably do it manually; I bet I would probably be disappointed with the lack of diversity represented.
posted by ODiV at 2:12 PM on June 29, 2016
I don't favourite often so I could probably do it manually; I bet I would probably be disappointed with the lack of diversity represented.
posted by ODiV at 2:12 PM on June 29, 2016
My example about follow-for-follow was in reference to 2001-era LiveJournal when everyone on there was a person, just some of them were boring and/or terrible people. There's no way in hell now I'd institute a straight follow-for-follow policy per account on any social media platform. Far far too much spam. I'm just saying I don't even doing follow-for-follow policy with accounts that register as human.
In the interest of non-bots and non-spam and positive non-men following I'd like to say that my personal top three twitter accounts run by women would be @whoajordie, @imogenbinnie, and MetaFilter's Own phirephoenix.
posted by komara at 2:13 PM on June 29, 2016
In the interest of non-bots and non-spam and positive non-men following I'd like to say that my personal top three twitter accounts run by women would be @whoajordie, @imogenbinnie, and MetaFilter's Own phirephoenix.
posted by komara at 2:13 PM on June 29, 2016
Not sure I want to unfollow my kids.
Damn it, this is bigger than you. Can't you see we're doing important stuff here?
posted by Broseph at 2:27 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Damn it, this is bigger than you. Can't you see we're doing important stuff here?
posted by Broseph at 2:27 PM on June 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
For most of my twenties, I didn't read any books by men that weren't assigned for classes—and since I was a women's studies major, you can imagine how few there were even there. It's a good experiment, I think, though I didn't do it as an experiment—I did it because I was a lesbian and something of a separatist. Still, I learned a lot from it. On the one hand: it is possible to read roughly a book a day, as I have done for much of my life, for years, read nothing by men, and not run out of great stuff to read in any genre you can name.
On the other hand, you do miss out on a lot of good stuff.
On the other hand, there is so much good stuff out there that you're always going to be missing out on a lot of it, and jettisoning a big chunk of it—a big, mainstream, obvious chunk of it—frees you up to explore a different chunk of it.
posted by not that girl at 3:20 PM on June 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
On the other hand, you do miss out on a lot of good stuff.
On the other hand, there is so much good stuff out there that you're always going to be missing out on a lot of it, and jettisoning a big chunk of it—a big, mainstream, obvious chunk of it—frees you up to explore a different chunk of it.
posted by not that girl at 3:20 PM on June 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
the only account i follow is written by 1000 monkeys stuck in a room with typewriters. it truly is the blurst of times
posted by entropicamericana at 3:35 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 3:35 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ugh, but I don't want to unfollow Chuck Tingle
posted by a strong female character at 3:44 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by a strong female character at 3:44 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not at all sure the person or persons behind Chuck Tingle is male.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:46 PM on June 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 3:46 PM on June 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
this thread has brought a gift to my home, as i just learned that my husband has never heard of chuck tingle!
posted by nadawi at 4:22 PM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:22 PM on June 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm not at all sure the person or persons behind Chuck Tingle is male.
Good point. I would love for women to be responsible for the glorious genius creation that is Chuck Tingle and the Tingleverse
posted by a strong female character at 4:26 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Good point. I would love for women to be responsible for the glorious genius creation that is Chuck Tingle and the Tingleverse
posted by a strong female character at 4:26 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait what? There is actually something called "twee-q"?
Really you all (and I do mean the entire internet) should be ashamed.
posted by sammyo at 4:41 PM on June 29, 2016
Really you all (and I do mean the entire internet) should be ashamed.
posted by sammyo at 4:41 PM on June 29, 2016
Good point. I would love for women to be responsible for the glorious genius creation that is Chuck Tingle and the Tingleverse
Before we realized the sheer physical and emotional impossibility of what we were suggesting, my good friend and I were dearly hoping for somebody to unmask Chuck Tingle and reveal that he'd been Zoe Quinn the whole time.
posted by rorgy at 4:55 PM on June 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
Before we realized the sheer physical and emotional impossibility of what we were suggesting, my good friend and I were dearly hoping for somebody to unmask Chuck Tingle and reveal that he'd been Zoe Quinn the whole time.
posted by rorgy at 4:55 PM on June 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
my husband is convinced no one could actually be buying the books - do we have sales numbers of any kind on tingle?
posted by nadawi at 5:00 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 5:00 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wish I could offer a temporary mute option during basketball season. Instead I'm pretty sure 90% of my followers who aren't basketball psychos tuned me out right around the all star break. Damn you twitter this is definitely a techinal issue!!!!!!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:17 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:17 PM on June 29, 2016
Anyway Katie Notoplolus is funny but I also like the fact that in that Hermit Thrush sex declaration thread she's like interlocutor #2 so there's no way she actually unfollowed him.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:20 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:20 PM on June 29, 2016
There should be a entire chapter of sociology textbooks devoted to Hermit Thrush and how he is awful sexist racist and awful yet all these cool people can't stop loving him because he's so naturally funny in actually kind of a sweet innocent way.
I don't follow him btw so don't look at me that way. (Though I do follow the eminent feminist blogger Nicole Mullen).
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:22 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't follow him btw so don't look at me that way. (Though I do follow the eminent feminist blogger Nicole Mullen).
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:22 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh wow I unfollowed Hermit Thrush and his buddies many years ago. Cool to know all the shitty men of weird twitter are still fucking that dead horse...
posted by naju at 5:29 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by naju at 5:29 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
my husband is convinced no one could actually be buying the books - do we have sales numbers of any kind on tingle?
Some of his books have reviews labeled "verified purchase", so yes, they probably have been bought by real human persons.
And I definitely willingly paid money to read "Slammed in the Butt by my Hugo Award Nomination", as any good citizen should. I feel no shame about this.
posted by a strong female character at 5:35 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some of his books have reviews labeled "verified purchase", so yes, they probably have been bought by real human persons.
And I definitely willingly paid money to read "Slammed in the Butt by my Hugo Award Nomination", as any good citizen should. I feel no shame about this.
posted by a strong female character at 5:35 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Twee-Q score of zero but that is on a sample of 5 retweets. Apparently I don't bother to retweet often. Also, I have a script that deletes my tweets when they are 15 days old, so that might impact analytics in weird ways.
posted by COD at 5:55 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by COD at 5:55 PM on June 29, 2016
Sexist bullshit doesn't become OK because you're a woman.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:43 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:43 PM on June 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
The post-gender people among us are amused by this thread.
posted by mygoditsbob at 7:02 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mygoditsbob at 7:02 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well it's cool if post-gender people are amused I suppose. I hope we move to a post-gender society where cis white men have not been enculturated to overwhelmingly dominate every conceivable discussion space online and offline! Until that happens, by all means, curate your feed.
posted by naju at 7:12 PM on June 29, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by naju at 7:12 PM on June 29, 2016 [21 favorites]
In the before times, when someone added you to their kill file, their last response was usually a message containing only the textual sound-effect, "plonk." After that, they literally didn't see you anymore, and you were...gone!
I think we should bring back plonk: no discussion, no bargaining or badgering, no "Why did you unfollow me?" Just...plonk.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:44 PM on June 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
I think we should bring back plonk: no discussion, no bargaining or badgering, no "Why did you unfollow me?" Just...plonk.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:44 PM on June 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
I am pleased to say that I follow not a single man on twitter!
posted by Justinian at 8:47 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by Justinian at 8:47 PM on June 29, 2016
Witch-king of Angmar: "You fool. No man can tweet me."
Eowyn: "I am no man."
posted by komara at 9:04 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Eowyn: "I am no man."
posted by komara at 9:04 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had become that universally reviled stereotype: the girl who is only friends with guys.
Well that was needlessly judgmental. Yuck.
posted by mammal at 11:11 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well that was needlessly judgmental. Yuck.
posted by mammal at 11:11 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
If anyone unfollowed me I haven't checked, I never check and I don't care. Amazingly unbelievable but true. Clearly it's cookie time.
posted by GuyZero at 11:17 PM on June 29, 2016
posted by GuyZero at 11:17 PM on June 29, 2016
Sexist bullshit doesn't become OK because you're a woman.
Well, yeah, technically this is sexist, and following no men at all is kind of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but as a political statement in the howling whataboutthemens shitstorm that is Twitter in the real world, it's pretty okay in my (cis dude) books.
posted by jklaiho at 1:47 AM on June 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well, yeah, technically this is sexist, and following no men at all is kind of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but as a political statement in the howling whataboutthemens shitstorm that is Twitter in the real world, it's pretty okay in my (cis dude) books.
posted by jklaiho at 1:47 AM on June 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well that was needlessly judgmental. Yuck.
there's this whole -thing- that she's referencing there that maybe you've missed? i can see it coming off harsh if you have...'i'm not like the other girls' 'oh i don't like girls, i'm only friends with guys' 'girls don't like me - they're too emotional, i need the company of men' these are pretty common things that a lot of women have said or feel - i used to be queen empress supreme of this logic, so don't think i'm picking on women like that - and that whole idea is pretty much based on the fact that women are so devalued and pitted against each other that we become self hating and wish to 'elevate' ourselves above the status of being mere women. i'll also say that there was no time in my life when i was in so much danger as when all of my friends were men who complimented me on not being like the other girls.
posted by nadawi at 7:06 AM on June 30, 2016 [16 favorites]
there's this whole -thing- that she's referencing there that maybe you've missed? i can see it coming off harsh if you have...'i'm not like the other girls' 'oh i don't like girls, i'm only friends with guys' 'girls don't like me - they're too emotional, i need the company of men' these are pretty common things that a lot of women have said or feel - i used to be queen empress supreme of this logic, so don't think i'm picking on women like that - and that whole idea is pretty much based on the fact that women are so devalued and pitted against each other that we become self hating and wish to 'elevate' ourselves above the status of being mere women. i'll also say that there was no time in my life when i was in so much danger as when all of my friends were men who complimented me on not being like the other girls.
posted by nadawi at 7:06 AM on June 30, 2016 [16 favorites]
Referring a suggestion to follow fewer men on Twitter as "sexist bullshit" is totally fucking hilarious to me on multiple levels, but the timeless refrain of "who will listen to the men?!" does remind me of an excellent comment by our dearly departed Anitanola, from the FPP about Elliot Rodger: "...good lord, sweetheart! Who do you think this society has been listening to so far?"
This world is not exactly lacking in male perspectives. We get it in fiction and non-fiction and advertising and music and interpersonal relationships and boardrooms and courtrooms and in restaurants and public transit and online and sitting on the front steps of our own homes and in the U.S., we also get it from the overwhelming majority of all three branches of government. The concerns and refrains of men as a class are in no danger of anything but continuing to be held materially inviolable via enshrinement in law. And that's sexist bullshit.
i'll also say that there was no time in my life when i was in so much danger as when all of my friends were men who complimented me on not being like the other girls.
Same. The world is strangely full of women who take pains to point out that they are absolutely nothing like any of the others.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 7:51 AM on June 30, 2016 [28 favorites]
This world is not exactly lacking in male perspectives. We get it in fiction and non-fiction and advertising and music and interpersonal relationships and boardrooms and courtrooms and in restaurants and public transit and online and sitting on the front steps of our own homes and in the U.S., we also get it from the overwhelming majority of all three branches of government. The concerns and refrains of men as a class are in no danger of anything but continuing to be held materially inviolable via enshrinement in law. And that's sexist bullshit.
i'll also say that there was no time in my life when i was in so much danger as when all of my friends were men who complimented me on not being like the other girls.
Same. The world is strangely full of women who take pains to point out that they are absolutely nothing like any of the others.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 7:51 AM on June 30, 2016 [28 favorites]
I have two Twitter accounts (my locked private one which is full of following friends/feminist activists/vegan chefs, etc & my public one for my boozy feminist podcast, which clearly states I will block you if you are a dude that comes in on my feed, whinging about a woman talking about alcohol). I don't regret being on Twitter, enjoying Twitter, but if you're a woman on it, believe me, us ladies could do with a lot less hot takes by dudes who feel you owe them their time because of "free speech."
posted by Kitteh at 7:56 AM on June 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:56 AM on June 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
I am active on twitter but I don't follow anyone and I remove anyone who follows me. That way I consume what I want to consume and say whatever is on my mind without having to have a damn conversation about it. Would that I had the same freedom in the real world.
That's great if it works for you, for me it sets off a "huh" moment, because I sort of started out that way, as an anonymous non-gender identified dude, and it seemed hostile to people who enter conversations without having any connection to the participants. Now I have an obvious pic-of-dude but am still anon. I wonder if it's more acceptable for women to pop into conversations of people they aren't following, and don't object if it is, because they do have a better track record of not "actually-ing" everyone and are probably more likely to lay off when it's clear nobody wants to hear what they have to say. A sad thing, but I don't think it's entirely a result of The Patriarchy, but the fact that men are intrinsically more aggressive creatures who have to be trained to tamp down their aggression and use it productively (because yes, it is incredibly advantageous when used productively in the current world order, and there's a lot of inertia to fight against if that's going to change) and not process many encounters in which they're told to "go away" as a deep sort of rejection.
There are different "scopes" of conversation and popping into a more intimidate small-group often triggers an air of discomfort or hostility, which makes sense, but took some getting used to. A lot of "Angry Male Twitter" is people who can't get that social media has to function like social interaction does in real life. You don't just "search" your way into entering a conversation unless it's a pretty big one getting tons of attention.
I do like to interact with many people there and found that at least as a dude, you'll participate in far more meaningful conversations without coming across like a creep if you establish some mutual followers that you respect. That culture tends to be heavily promoted and supported by the "feminist element" on Twitter, but it's certainly in reaction to aggressive men-tions.
I can't imagine what it's like to disqualify someone for their gender and can't help but see this as a step backwards, because my intuition aggressively [I know, it's a reflexive man-reaction!] insists that the men this needs to reach most are going to become increasingly hostile, the terrible ones are always terrible and need to be corralled somehow, and I see this as "radicalizing" less obnoxious, aggressive men into the mentality that women want to just hide and have private conversations in a public forum, and that maybe the Real Talk that Gets Things Done in this World belongs between male circles, and maybe We Should Just Smile and Accept that Women Can't Take the Heat of a Challenging Interaction from not the sort of men who say "kill yourself" but the ones who patiently do challenge an assertion from time to time and are met with bristling reactionary hostility as if they were a "shitlib" barging into a Trump thread.
It's an annoying, challenging facet of having "masculine energy" -- the aggrieved "what did I do, don't reject me, let me into your life, where are you going" auto-response many of us have that needs to be trained down in intensity and compartmentalized...I do believe there are profound psychological differences between the genders, some of which are implanted with "nurture" and some that are not, and someone who identifies as a woman can surely have a lot of aggressive, "I must fill this void with my presence" masculine energy, but I know with certainty, which is why this is a Thing that is Happening, that it tends to be strongest in those who identify as men, and it has to be actively suppressed until it becomes habit (if ever) not to take things as rejection or exclusion.
posted by aydeejones at 8:25 AM on June 30, 2016
That's great if it works for you, for me it sets off a "huh" moment, because I sort of started out that way, as an anonymous non-gender identified dude, and it seemed hostile to people who enter conversations without having any connection to the participants. Now I have an obvious pic-of-dude but am still anon. I wonder if it's more acceptable for women to pop into conversations of people they aren't following, and don't object if it is, because they do have a better track record of not "actually-ing" everyone and are probably more likely to lay off when it's clear nobody wants to hear what they have to say. A sad thing, but I don't think it's entirely a result of The Patriarchy, but the fact that men are intrinsically more aggressive creatures who have to be trained to tamp down their aggression and use it productively (because yes, it is incredibly advantageous when used productively in the current world order, and there's a lot of inertia to fight against if that's going to change) and not process many encounters in which they're told to "go away" as a deep sort of rejection.
There are different "scopes" of conversation and popping into a more intimidate small-group often triggers an air of discomfort or hostility, which makes sense, but took some getting used to. A lot of "Angry Male Twitter" is people who can't get that social media has to function like social interaction does in real life. You don't just "search" your way into entering a conversation unless it's a pretty big one getting tons of attention.
I do like to interact with many people there and found that at least as a dude, you'll participate in far more meaningful conversations without coming across like a creep if you establish some mutual followers that you respect. That culture tends to be heavily promoted and supported by the "feminist element" on Twitter, but it's certainly in reaction to aggressive men-tions.
I can't imagine what it's like to disqualify someone for their gender and can't help but see this as a step backwards, because my intuition aggressively [I know, it's a reflexive man-reaction!] insists that the men this needs to reach most are going to become increasingly hostile, the terrible ones are always terrible and need to be corralled somehow, and I see this as "radicalizing" less obnoxious, aggressive men into the mentality that women want to just hide and have private conversations in a public forum, and that maybe the Real Talk that Gets Things Done in this World belongs between male circles, and maybe We Should Just Smile and Accept that Women Can't Take the Heat of a Challenging Interaction from not the sort of men who say "kill yourself" but the ones who patiently do challenge an assertion from time to time and are met with bristling reactionary hostility as if they were a "shitlib" barging into a Trump thread.
It's an annoying, challenging facet of having "masculine energy" -- the aggrieved "what did I do, don't reject me, let me into your life, where are you going" auto-response many of us have that needs to be trained down in intensity and compartmentalized...I do believe there are profound psychological differences between the genders, some of which are implanted with "nurture" and some that are not, and someone who identifies as a woman can surely have a lot of aggressive, "I must fill this void with my presence" masculine energy, but I know with certainty, which is why this is a Thing that is Happening, that it tends to be strongest in those who identify as men, and it has to be actively suppressed until it becomes habit (if ever) not to take things as rejection or exclusion.
posted by aydeejones at 8:25 AM on June 30, 2016
It's an annoying, challenging facet of having "masculine energy" -- the aggrieved "what did I do, don't reject me, let me into your life, where are you going" auto-response many of us have that needs to be trained down
Yeah, my experience is that this is trained down in women, an trained up in men. And this starts very early.
Until we can actually separate nurture from the equation it's pointless to insist that men and women are fundamentally, inherently, psychologically different. And it's especially problematic to do so when your argument is that men therefore have a natural advantage (you: "it is incredibly advantageous when used productively in the current world order").
I'm not sure you've really thought this through.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yeah, my experience is that this is trained down in women, an trained up in men. And this starts very early.
Until we can actually separate nurture from the equation it's pointless to insist that men and women are fundamentally, inherently, psychologically different. And it's especially problematic to do so when your argument is that men therefore have a natural advantage (you: "it is incredibly advantageous when used productively in the current world order").
I'm not sure you've really thought this through.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2016 [10 favorites]
Thanks to this post, I just unfollowed about 150 people, most of whom were men. Men from interests since past (pro cycling, for example) or speakers from conferences I barely even remember, and a whole host of "cool tech dudes you're supposed to follow on twitter for some reason".
Having just come back from vacation I was feeling overwhelmed looking at Twitter for the first time in a week and this helped give me some breathing room.
posted by misskaz at 11:19 AM on June 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
Having just come back from vacation I was feeling overwhelmed looking at Twitter for the first time in a week and this helped give me some breathing room.
posted by misskaz at 11:19 AM on June 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
In case AFABulous checks his recent activity: Twitter Canoe.
posted by pharm at 3:35 AM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pharm at 3:35 AM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
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This is a good question.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:43 AM on June 29, 2016 [7 favorites]